Trotha tried to portray Stumpf's allegations as individual cases. Stumpf answered he still had the feeling that two different worlds were facing each other, separated by a Chinese wall. In preparation for the discussion he had interviewed Fritz Betz who also served on board the SMS Helgoland. Betz explicitly confirmed that the vast majority of naval officers in the High Seas Fleet humiliated and abused the sailors and stokers with constant harassment and offensive remarks.WUA, Reihe 4, Bd. 10,1: Gutachten der Sachverständigen Alboldt, Stumpf, v. Trotha zu den Marinevorgängen 1917 und 1918, 1928.
