40K analysis

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

40K analysis

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-18 02:39am

Okay, I've been putting this bloody thread off for weeks now, since I finished Execution hour (I actually finished Shadow point too.) Parrtly because this book has so many neat and detailed techie things to go over and it will be a bitch to go through for me.) So bear with me, it might take some time to delve through all this.

Since I startted collecting 40K novels, one of the reasons for doign so is with an eye towards discussion and dissemination of interesting tidbits I discover in these books. Don't get me wrong, alot of the quotes I've seen or provided in various discussions (especially from the likes of Black Admiral and the other 40Kers I've discussed with) have been invaluable and illuminating, but its always been my policy and experience that I learn best if I do the research myself - that way I pick up on thigns other people might miss. and I think I actually have (again, no offense to other 40Kers.)

That said, I think there is alot of interesting tidbits in the novel. And I'll get to that in a moment. I also have to say I really enjoyed reading the book.. its a good read (as most people say it was.) I have always been a big fan of "Age of Sail" style fiction (horatio Hornblower and the like) and this book had a strong similiarity to that kind of fiction, which made it quite fun to read. I'm really regretting this wasn't a continual series. Its also a nice, refreshing change from much of the EU, I must say.

Anyhow, this is how I plan to cover the tech bits:

This first page, since I am a senator and stuff, will be the index for my revelations. I'll link to individual posts I do and put them in the index, since I'm sure this might get rather lengthy.

That said.. here we go:

pages 11 to page 18

Pages 19 to 27

Pages 42 to 58

Pages 80 to 126

Pages 142-183

PAge 191 to 215

Pages 222 to 278

Pages 283 to 315
Last edited by Connor MacLeod on 2006-11-12 11:56pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-18 03:41am

Page 11-12 wrote: "Estimated time to beacon?"

"One point three hours, flag-captain" came the reply, the officr at the astrogation lectern checking the flickering symbols on the rune screen in front of him."
The Lord Solar Macharius is roughly 75-80 minutes from the "jump point" into warp. The ship has just (or is just going to) emerge from drydock, but we're not sure WHERE drydock is. Presumably its in-system close to a planet, but I have no idea how remotely accurate it is. If the distancee were known from spacedock to warp point (or if it could be approximated by some other statement or data, ie where the Imperium usually places spacedocks) then we might get an acceleration figure.

Page 13 - the Contagion had destroyed a group of Cobra destroyers from a distance of "several thousand kilometers." (I'm not going to provide a quote here, simply reference it for future notice.)

Page 16: - "hundreds" of crewer ratings are used to physically haul guns in and out of position (up to and away from the gun ports, in other words.) as well as open/close blast shields over hte viewports Presumably, the guns are "locked" into position before combat (and probably anchored via some sort of force field mechanism against the recoil.

Page 18:
At the magos's command, the truly stellar levels of energy contained within the ship's [speaking of an Imperial Navy] cruiser plasma reactors were released into the warp engines, ripping a hole in the fabric of space and pushing the cruiser forward into the immaterium. The Gellar field, a teardrop-shaped bubble of reailty which protected the ship and its crew from the maelstrom - crackled with power as waves of warp energy lashed against it, rocking the Macharius from prow to stern,"
The (ought to be) well known "stellar levels" figure for 40K ships. As noted in the prior "Grand 40K quantification thread", the implication is as high as e26 (or higher") watts for output, but the actual reference can vary highly depending on the kind of star (much higher or much lower.) Generally, observed performance (and comparisons to other craft such as the Planet Killer) imply power generation is probably less than e26 watts.

Note that another interpretation of this quote may be that the "stellar levels" of energy was not referring to a "sustained" output (ie not power), but how much energy in total was delivered from the plasma reactor over an unknown timeframe (although no less than an hour or so, given the aformeentioned "time to warp" given earlier.)

In general, ,the quote is best used as a rough, "order of magnitude" support proof of the sheer magnitude and capability of 40K power generation, ,rather than an explicit reference.

Additionally, make note of the reference to the Gellar fields (and their description) - they evidently do not just protect against "psychic" incursion, ,but also against physical damage from the Warp (or at least interaction with it.)

<sorry folks, I know I just scratched the surface, but I'll touch on more of it later. I want to get to bed :D )

User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Post by Stormbringer » 2006-10-18 03:52am

The Lord Solar Macharius is roughly 75-80 minutes from the "jump point" into warp. The ship has just (or is just going to) emerge from drydock, but we're not sure WHERE drydock is. Presumably its in-system close to a planet, but I have no idea how remotely accurate it is. If the distancee were known from spacedock to warp point (or if it could be approximated by some other statement or data, ie where the Imperium usually places spacedocks) then we might get an acceleration figure.
This Hydraphur, right? Or is it Port Maw? I know both are know but I wanted to be sure of which it was.
Image

User avatar
Stormbringer
King of Democracy
Posts: 22678
Joined: 2002-07-15 11:22pm

Post by Stormbringer » 2006-10-18 03:57am

Sure, my brain wasn't working right when I wrote that. I'm up too late.

Anyway, is this the Hydraphur yards they're talking about? Or is it Port Maw?

If I remember right there's a pretty good description of Hydraphur in the first Shira Calpurnia novel. You might want to look that up, it should give a decent reference.

I know Port Maw is described in some of the Battlefleet Gothic fluff. I know there were some Execution Hour scenarios which might well give you an in-game star map for the area but I haven't seen those since they split of Battlefleet Gothic.
Image

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11932
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2006-10-18 04:08am

The system in question is the Stranivar system and the Lord Solar Macharius has slipped its moorings an unspecified time in the past.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Ford Prefect
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8254
Joined: 2005-05-16 04:08am
Location: The real number domain

Post by Ford Prefect » 2006-10-18 04:49am

Connor MacLeod wrote: Additionally, make note of the reference to the Gellar fields (and their description) - they evidently do not just protect against "psychic" incursion, ,but also against physical damage from the Warp (or at least interaction with it.)
Gellar fields are interesting little devices, though I highly doubt they would actually take the brunt of the Immaterium against them - the Lord Solar Macharius wouldn't have the power, considering the Novator's noting that the power contained in "the merest flicker" outdid the battlecruiser's firepower.

Gellar field occur to have some sort of divinely gifted ability to force reality to stand up straight and tell the Warp to bugger off. It's unique properties are what are capable of shrugging off the Immaterium.

As an aside, I always found Leoten Semper to be an excellent character.
What is Project Zohar?

Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11932
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2006-10-18 05:04am

Gellar fields don't need to hold off the whole power of the warp, just any hostile entities and dangerous currents. They can and do fail, even the most powerful ones, when exposed to the most turbulent areas of the warp. Like a ships hull doesn't have to be stronger than the entire ocean, they just have to be strong enough to allow safe passage through the warp. It isn't like the full force of the warp is concentrating on destroying everyone inside, its more like the local sharks want to see if they can get a tasty snack.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-20 04:13am

Okay, continued:

Page 19:
Aft lay the engine section, comprising fully one third of the ship's three kilometre length, but below him was the main body of the Macharius, brisling with crenellated gun turrets, observation domes and spires, antenna arrays and other baroque features of the vessel's superstructure. On each side of the hull were the heavy weapon batteries and the tiered ramparts of the cruiser's launch bays, each bay capable of unleashing wave upon wave of fast attack fighters and bombers. Ahead of him was the fearsome armoured beak of the prow, its metres-thick solid atamantine armour designed to smash through the hulls of enemy vessels in a full head-on ramming attack. There, too, was the ship's main frontal armament: six missile tube tunnels, each firing a thirty-metre long plasma torpedo.
Description of the Macharius' design. The ship is three kilometers long, and has a "metres thick" prow made of adamantium. Also note the thirty-meter length for the torpedoes (and the suggestion they are the most powerful weapon on the ship - against armor, at least.)

The firepower of the Macharius was formidable, but Solon Cassander knew that it was insignificant in comparison to the power contained in the merest flicker of warp energy in the maelstrom raging around them.
Comparison of the Macharius' firepower relative to the Warp segment it is traveling through.


Page 20:
Navigators claimed to be able to sometimes see glimpses of the futre in the swirling patterns of the warp.
Interesting hint that Navigators might have precognitive abilities of some form (possible advantage for a naval ship.)
The Contagion drifted inert and seemingly lifeless on the solar tides, its power systems reduced to such a low output as to make it to all intents invisible to the electronic senses of anotehr vessel.
Description of common "stealth" tactics for vessels - ie "running silent". curiously, little to no mention in the novels ever occurs of anything resembling electronic warfare, though a number of "countermeasures" are hinted at.

Pages 20-21
On the fringes of the Dolorosa system, a miniature second sun suddenly blossomed in the vacuum of space, its light outshining that of the real star at the far distant centre of the planetary system. Waves of energy cascaded out of the extra-dimensional breach as a three-kilometre-long metal leviathan ripped its way back into the normal universe, its shields straining at near-overload point to withstand the terrible energies surging around it.
Vessels emerging from warp emit a rather substantial amount of energy - possibly implied to be stellar-scale or greater (Based on implied luminosity, at least.) This may make sense given the amount of energy expended in going into warp (it probably should be the same amount of energy coming out, especially due to conservation laws and all that.) Further note another mention of the 3 kilometre length, as well as the fact that the shields are required to withstand the energies present in emergence from (and presumably to) Warp, also implying the shields can wiststand off some fraction of a stellar-scale power output (although the percentage absorbed is probably no more than half, sincee the energy is probably radiated omnidirectionally. Which also accounts for the detectability of ships emerging from Warp)


Page 21
A ship was at its most vulnerable in the moments immediately after re-entering normal space, when its power levels were still in flux and the energy burst of its warp exit broadcast its existence and position to any other vessel in the system.

Ships emerging from warp evidently possess a largge and powerful energy emissions signature which can be detected by other vessels even across an entire system.
"Position confirmed as the Dolorosa system. Estimate we are within 89.7% accuracy of intended exit point." Semper made a note to commend his navigator. Any jump that hit its intended exit point with more than a 70% level of accuracy weas considered the mark of a master.
Indication of the probable efficiencies implied in Warp transit.
Surveyors reporting. Heavy interference frrom warp energy residue.
The "residual" energy from an emergence from warp can interfere with sensors. Unsurprising, given that we later learn that sensors are greatly diminished in the immaterium.

Pages 21-22
Several hundred thousand kilometres directly behind the Macharius, the Contagion closed in on its prey. Power flowed through the Chaos vessel as its energy levels were gradually brought up, and Hendrik Morrau fought to keep the growing excitement out of his voice as he stared at the bright target blip on the surveyor screen.

"Maintain course and increase speed to mark point two. Stay in his warp trail. Bring the prow batteries and dorsal lances up to half power. Void shields to remain down until I give the order."

Morrau watched the target blip grow brighter on the screen in front of him. It was an ambush tactic he had long ago honed to perfection - using the energy trail of a craft recently emerged from the warp to mask his own approach from directly behind it. before the time the enemy even knew he was there, the Contagion would already be in position to deliver a crippling strike to its power systems.
The Contagion is several hundred thousand kilometers distant and as yet undetectable (to passive sensors at least - unknown if active sensors are being used or are used in such situations.) from directly behind the ship. Interference due to "warp trail" is implied. Curiously, this would suggest that Chaos ships (which have superior weapons range to Imperium ships) hae effective weapons ranges less than 200,000 km, although this is in fact stated later on (for Imperium ships, though.) Rather, we can infer that a Chaos vessel (and thus an Imperial vessel) cannot effectively disable or cripple a ship at 200,000 kilometers - it becomes a matter of precision and not of raw accuracy.)

Also note the implication that lance turrets and forweard guns can draw "half power" - presumably half of maximum output.

Page 22
Hito Ulanti leaned over hte console, quickly interpreting the surveyor scan symbols which flashed across the screen. "Still alot of warp energy interference, but possible target blip fifteen to twenty thousand kilometres immediately behind us and closing... Could be another ship!"

Semper didn't hesitate. "Helm control - hard to port! Engineering - open porrt vent valves and engage plasma reactor emergency release systems!"
...

"Taget veering to port. Enerrgy surge in his power systems," croaked the Contagion's toad-bodied helmsman.
"He's detected us!" Morrau snarled with a curse. "Full power to forward weapons. Fire when ready!"
Effective range for "disabling" fire - 15,000-20,000 kilometers. "full power" implied to be divertable to at least forward weaposn (if not others.) Also note mention of "plasma reactor emergency release systems./"


Page 23
The Macharius swung round in space, gargoyle-faced vents opening up along its port side to bleed gaseous clouds of broiling plasma out into space. The expelled energy cloud appeared as a hazy after-image on the Contagion's surveyor screens, confusing the Chaos ship's targeting systems and sending its opening weapons fire blazing harmlessly past the Imperial cruiser.

"Engage void shields!" Morrau bellowed, already knowing that the Macharius's manouvre would bring its port batteries into firing alignment before enough energy could be diverted to the Contagion's void shield generators. At this range, the damage would not be critical, but the Chaos cruiser sustained several hull-deep hits as it passed through the sights of the Macharius's weapons batteries, before its void shields finally powered up sufficiently to absorb the energy blasts and macro-shell impacts.
"venting" plasma eivdently is a valid countermeasure tactic, as it seems to disrupt the targeting of Chaos sensor systems (active or passive unknown, but possibly both.)

Void shields evidently take some non-neglible time to raise (at least to full power.)

Also note that range seems to have an effect on the damage inflicted by weapons fire (implying at least some weapons have a coherency or dissipation problem.)


Page 26 - Contagion's[/] weapons fire "violently rocks" the Macharius

Page 27


... as the barrage of lance beams, mass-reactive explosive shells, and white-hot plasma streams ripped through the Macharius's metres-thick armoured hull


Note the mention of "mass reactive explosive shells" - evidently a bolter shell writ large (and demonstrating a scalable technology.) Also note the reference to "plasma streams" - possibly implying a particle-beam like weapon (about the only way it could possibly work as a weapon, in fact.)


Combat in warp space was up-close and deadly, the range of scanners and weapons targeters so limited here that engagements took place at distances measured in hundreds rather than tens of thousands of kilometres/ The area between the two ships was saturated with energy as enough firepower to level a city was unleashed across it. Void shield strikes registered as bright blossoms on surveyor screens, and both ships shuddered under the impact of on-target hits.
Fighting in warp involves vastly shorter combat ranges, because of the sensor-distorting influences of the warp itself (hundreds of km in warp as opposed to tens of thousands of km in open space.) Also mention of weapons fire being capable of "leveling a city".

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11932
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2006-10-20 04:19am

In reference to the 15-20 thousand kilometer range, game mechanics for BFG consider 15cm (usually implied ranges of 1cm=1000km) to be point blank range and grants bonuses to the accuracy weapon batteries at that range.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Post by Stark » 2006-10-20 04:20am

Does this suggest that when a ship emerges from the warp, some warp-stuff comes out with it? They beam a huge signature and their systems are disrupted by 'residue'.

User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27170
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord » 2006-10-20 04:28am

Connor MacLeod wrote: The Contagion is several hundred thousand kilometers distant and as yet undetectable (to passive sensors at least - unknown if active sensors are being used or are used in such situations.) from directly behind the ship. Interference due to "warp trail" is implied. Curiously, this would suggest that Chaos ships (which have superior weapons range to Imperium ships) hae effective weapons ranges less than 200,000 km, although this is in fact stated later on (for Imperium ships, though.) Rather, we can infer that a Chaos vessel (and thus an Imperial vessel) cannot effectively disable or cripple a ship at 200,000 kilometers - it becomes a matter of precision and not of raw accuracy.)
Indeed. Individual components of weapons batteries tend to miss a lot. They're supposed to bracket the enemy ship with fire, rather than all hit it directly. To get a crippling alpha strike like this, you'd want to be as close as possible to the enemy, especially in a high distortion enviroment - after all, it's likely that the targetting systems of the chaos gunners were thrown off too.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-22 03:12am

Stark wrote:Does this suggest that when a ship emerges from the warp, some warp-stuff comes out with it? They beam a huge signature and their systems are disrupted by 'residue'.
There might be some phyiscal matter emerging out from the "warp" (I think there might need to be for there to be something to physically "see" anyhow..) or it might be mostly energetic radiation of some sort (or may "manifest" in real space as radiation, anyhow.) I've noticed in the Rennie novels (and in BFG in general) there are forms of EM radiation that screw with their sensors and such.

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-22 04:11am

Well, on to part two:

page 42 - mention of "hundreds of hive worlds" in the Imperium. I'm not sure if there are any other sources that might suggest more or less, but I found it interesting


Page 48
Rearward surveyors detecting an unknown vessel approaching on an intercept course: distance 840,000 kilometers."
The Dauntless-class cruiser Bellerophon detects the Macharius at the above distance. As we see later, the Macharius launches fighters to attack the cruiser at this distance (giving a minimum operation range for fighters.) but also evidently setting an upper limit for other systems (torpedoes and weapons batteries anyhow, but its likely that other weapons such as lances and nova cannon - at least cruiser-grade variants - have a longer range than torpedoes do.)

There is also the fact Magell, the renegade in charge of the Bellerophon was not in any fear of attack from the cruiser's weapons at this distance.
(He didnt know they carried fighters and bombers until they launched.)
Energy output shows its a capital vessel. Its jamming its own vessel recognition codes, but from the reactor signature, I'd say it was an Imperial ship, almost certainly cruiser level or better.
The first mention of "jamming" of any sort I have run across, outside of the "special" torpedo ordnance mentioned in some BFG suppelments (telemetry-guided torpedoes, but that really wasn't EW.) Again, they seem to possess SOME forms of jamming or sensor countermeasures (like the plasma venting, or "running silent" or this "ID Jamming" tirck) but outright Electronic warfare does not seem to be common.

Page 49
Glancing out of the cockpit window, he could see ihs wingmen taking up position to his port and starboard, each of them tens of kilometres distant but with the bright flares of their multiple mass-reactive engines starkly marking their position against the blackness of space.
The bit about "mass-reactive" engines is a curious statement, since I have traditionally taken "mass-reactive" to refer to the fusing/detonation mechnaism in many Imperial projectiles (bolters, macro-cannon, etc.) But in this case it seems to imply a kind of engine or powerplant (something exotic?)

An amusing possiblity is that this hints that Bolter shells might be some sort of shaped-charge warhead.
'Nemesis One to Macharius. All systems are green. Distance to tarrget: 200,000 kilometers and closing.
At this point, the fighters are 200,000 kilometers out from the Bellerophon. It is unknown how much of the 600,000 or so kilometers mentioned earlier were covered by the Macharius, if any, and how much the fighters themselves might have covered. And also no clue on timeframes (which would allow us to approximate acceleration figures.)

I think we can safely infer, however, that the Macharius is probably not 200,000 km or so away, and is likely much further, given that it is not firing on the cruiser with torpedoes or weaponry. So most of this distance is likely covered by the fighters.

page 49 - Macharius carries at LEAST 4 squadrons of Starhawk bombers (minimum of 40 craft.)

Page 50
'Vandire's teeth!" Milos Caparan cursed, triggering his starboard thrusters and jinking the two hundred tonne attack bomber out of the path of a kilometre-wide explosive staburst which filled the view out of the cockpit's main viewing port. All around the lead Starhawk, the hard vacuum of space was filled with similar explosions and energy bursts. At this range - still almost one thousand kilometres away from the target - a direct hit was almost impossible, but each energgy blast emitted a burst of widespread and high-intensity radiation lethal to both a bomber's crew and control systems, while each each exploding anti-ordnance missile warhead or mass-reactive shell threw out a hail of shrapnel that could cover a volume of space tens of kilometres across.
Several items:

1.) STarhawk bombers mass 200 tons. Do we have any exact dimensions for such fighters? might be possible to guesstimate density figures based on those. (might be useful for missile or shell masses.) The fighters are evidently also agile enough to evade a "kilometer-wide" explosive burst - implying acceleration of at least tens or hundreds of gees (change direction to go around a 1000-meter wide space, disregarding forward velocity.)

2.) Anti-ordnancec defenses acting at a range of approximately 1000 km in this instance, although whether this is a maximum range isn't exactly clear, but its unlikely to be muchy greater though, given that the accuracy implied at this range is very low (they rely on proximity effects to hit fighters.

3.) Missiles and shells seem to generate shrapnel of uknown type that travels at hypersonic speeds. more curious are the "energy bursts" of unidentified nature- they seem to "explode' and release radiation effects (like some sort of EMP or neutron bomb) It makes one wonder what kind of weapon it is (plasma perhaps.) It probably is "encased" in some physical medium, since energy weapons do ont, by definition, detonate.


Page 52
Thirty-five remaining Starhawks launched half their full payload at once from a distance of just over four hundred and eighty kilometers.
minimal effective range for bomber-launched warheads (it is implied this is "close" or "optimal" range for such weapons in preceding and following pages) is 480 kilometers. Max range unknown, although given their latter unpredictable nature, its probably not much more than two or three times that (otherwise too many missiles would be "lost" to make an effective salvo.)
The guns aboard the Bellerophon suddenly fell silent, the ship's surveyor systems requiring a scanning field free of the radioactive static of explosions and energy bursts as the information they gatheredf was fed back to the ship's logic engines. All over the ship, non-vital technical systems slowed to a crawl or temporarily blacked out entirely while the logic engines devoted the greater part of their processing capacity to calculating speeds, trajectories, and interception points as the oncoming wave of missiles rushed towards their target at a speed of tens of kilometers a second.
Indication of the processing capacilities of starship engines and the effectiveness of Imperium automated point-defense. Also mention of the velocity of fighter-launched missiles.
With the missile cluster now only a hundred kilometers and scant seconds away, the Bellerophon activated its final anti-ordnance defenses, the logic engines feeding targeting coordinates and firing solutions through to these last-ditch automated defenses. A gridwork of multilaser turrets, autocannon batteries, plasma throwers and flechette launchers studded the outer hull of the Bellerophon and these activated now, ,throwing out a short-lived but concentrated curtain of firepower between the vessel and the missile wave.
Description of the "last-ditch" automated defenses of the Bellerophon. Evidently they cannot be used at very long range and not in conjunction with the manned defenses due to interference. Due note though, despite only intercepting one-fifth of the missile barrage, the ship was damaged and may not be operating at full capcity.

Also note the "scant seconds" implying that the missiles may have been anywhere from 30-50 km/s in velocity (which also gives us a benchmark on the reaction time of the automated defenses at that range.)

Page 52-53
Each Starhawk had launched half its full payload of ten plasma warhead missiles apiece. OF these, over thirty perceent had, even at such close range, malfunctioned or failed to acquire their targget. Another twenty percent would be destroyed by the Bellerophon's anti-ordnance systems. Of the hundred and sixty launched in the bomber wave, less than eighty would reach their taget- and only a fraction of these would penetrate the ancient vessel's metres-thick armoured hull and do any damage that really mattered.
Indications of the efficiencies of Imperium missile targeting, automated point defense at 100 kilometers, and hull-thickness (again.)

Page 56
A stray shotgun blast took off the head of the man next to him, adding another corpse to the carpet of bodies that littered the passageway.
Indicative of the firepower of a Naval 40K shotgun.

Page 58 - the crew of a Dauntless-class cruiser is "several thousand" less than a Dictator-class cruiser's.

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-23 01:42am

Here we go again... (sorry, I'm a bit exhausted, so I probably won't be posting as many quotes this time, at leas tnot now.)

Page 80:
Although it was not one of the front-line systems, Belatis was abundant with natural resources and supplies vital to the war effort. Adamantium ore for the diamond-hard armoured prows of the mighty warships of BAttlefleet Gothic. Unprocessed promethium fuel for the war machines of the Imperial guard,
Implies that Adamantium is a naturally occuring material, which I believe imposes limits on some of its properties (It may be an element as part of the overall composition of the ship, though, so they may simply use it with others in more exotic processes, something I may touch on later.)

It also implies the material is quite "hard", which probably makes it a good penetrator, but may also mean something about its tensile properties.

Page 83
He heard the drumming boom of an autocannon opening fire, saw a burst of its high-calibre shells scythe down the length of the street behind him, catching one of his Arbitrators and scattering him in bloody pieces against the mud-brick walls of the surrounding buildings.
Autocannon (possibly tripod mounted) can penetrate the Carapace armour of an Arbites officer (obviously) - the momentum of the attack effecitvely blasts the officer into tiny piececs that get splattered against the walls of nearby buildings. (In other words, it explodes an armoured man in an unspecified number of shots aside from being a "burst".)

Page 84 - a "burst" of bolter shells from a bolt pistol turns 2 chaos cultists into a "red spray"

Page 96:
On cue, metres-thick blast hatches ground open along the beaks of their heavily-armored prows.
Torpedo launch hatches are "meters thick"
Simultaneous flame bursts erupted from each opening as powerful engines, assisted by the launch tubes' own gravitic motors, roared into life, firing the hundred metre-long missiles out of their silo tubes and into the vacuum of space.
Initial thrust to the torpedoes is provided by gravitic accelerators in the silos as well as the engines inside the silos as well (the silos themselves also have to be resistant to the plasma-exhaust of the motors, incidentally)
The aftershock of the torpedo launch rang through the hulls of the Imperial ships: a deep rumlbing shudder that ran through the length of the massive vessels,
The missiles launch is enough to shake the ship, although not violently enough that people get knocked off balance.

Page 97
Thirty torpedoes, closing on the enemy pack at a speed of tens of kilometres a second
Torpedo velocity.
"Missiles running true," spke an ordnance servitor, communing with the simple machine-minds of the torpedoes' logic engines and reading and interpreting the data relayed back frfom the missile' guidance and surveyor systems.
Evidently, torpedoes have some sort of telemetry links with the ships launching them, at least at this range. (probably helps to improve their accruacy.)
"A defense screen of fighters to intercept the torpedo wave,"
40K fighters have a vital role as mobile point defense against incoming warheads. This is stated to be part of "anti-ordnance tactics".

PAge 98 - Macharius Evidently carries at least a dozen squadrons of fighters and bombers, possibly twice that many (if the squadrons are purely bombers and an accompanying fihgter escort.) This implies hundreds of fighters as a standard complement for a Dictator class cruiser.

Page 99 - A Starhawk bomber has about 9 crew: a Tech-adept, 4 servitor assistants, a bombadier, a pilot, a co-pilot, and one gunner.

Page 108:

- Torpedo range between target and Imperial warships is "tens of thousands of kilometres.

- Missiles fire last-second boosters to increase velocity as the guidance systems on the torpedoes activate as they are in range. If we go by comments in the BFG sourcebook, this may imply a possible range of 3,000 kilometers or so

- Weapons batteries "zeroed" in on warships had to have their "gunnery cogitators re-dialed" to an anti-ordannce role, but at the close range against said torpedoes it was an almost impossible task.

- A surprised chaos fleet's point defense turrets managed to intercept 12 out of 30 torpedoes (again, note that the range implied in this scene based on point defense is something like 1000 km or so.)

Page 109 - torpedo "surveyors" are implied to be passive in nature, homing in on power generation ('energy") and comm signals . Also curiously, no effort is evidently made for countermeasures or jamming, only poitn defense and evasive manuvers.

- An explosion on a Chaos cruiser-carrier flagship sets off promethium fuel reserves and ammunition stockpiles inside the hangar bays, causing damage. It is curious to wonder what the Promethium is used to "fuel", and what sorts of ammunition might have been set off (it evidently is fairly volatile.)

Page 110 - plasma reactors are evidently quite volatile, as they will blow up when breached. This suggest they are not merely f usion in nature.

- A single torpedo impacts a lance turret with enough momentum to sheer it off. This also causes the power feeds to the turret to bleed off excess energy from the other weapons systems (Evidently they cannot "close off" the breach due to containment system failure.) If the mass of the turret is known a lower limit on the momentum/mass of the torpedo may be estimable.

- A single torpedo is sufficient to vaporize a Chaos troop transport whose size/mass isn't known.

Page 111 - Chaos fleets are able to fire first on the Imperium ships (the Imperium ships are still out of range, despite the torpedo volley.) Curious, given the implied "tens of thousands of kilometers" range before and the latter mention of "hundreds of thousands of kilometerS" later.

Page 112 - the hatch on a torpedo silo masses seventeen tons.

- Bridge blast shields are composed of a "few feet' of titanium steel armor. Presumably this means titanium AND steel...

Page 113 - Introduced to one Erwin Ramas, captain of the Gothic-class cruiser Drachenfels. Ramas was horribly injured in battle against Eldar and is kept alive by artificial cybernetic devices inside a giant armored strategium shell inside his ship. Evidently the setup is much akin to Darth Vader's little enclosed chamber we see in TESB, ,although Ramas's is completely sealed and links him directly to the ship via Mind Machine Interface.

Page 115 - sustained lasfire from a Imperium interceptor vaporizes a Chaos Swiftdeath interceptor (assuming 200 tons and iron composition, this may require 1.2 TJ to accomplish. Implied duration of a "few seconds", suggesting fighter lascannon are hundreds of GW, possibly severa TJ, per shot.)

- Chaos anti-ordnance defenses includes flechette bursts that unleash"millions of monofilament micro shards"

Page 116 - the Tech adept aboard interceptors act as rear gunners, navigators, and also relay sensor and telemetry data to their motherships (acting as reconnaisance elements even in combat.)

PAge 123 - Chaos ships evidently have and use vortex torpedo warheads

- radiation bursts against void shielding can disrupt surveyors (understandable, if they are passive sensors.)

- The Macharius has five plasma reactors.

Page 125:

- Boarding craft from the chaos cruiser Virulent cross the distancee between itself and the Macharius in "less than a minute". Range is probably at least a few thousand km (deefense turret range at least.) but less than 100,000 km ('tens of thosuands of kilometers.) Suggesting an upper limit of a few tens of thousands of Gees for shuttle acceleration. Lower limit would be 167 gees.)

- Mention of "ancient phase-field generators" to pass through ship's hull in boarding action.

Page 126 - Anotther example of a "burst of bolter shells" tearing apart someone (exploding?)
Last edited by Connor MacLeod on 2007-09-18 10:45pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-24 03:10am

Page 142: The Governor's palace on Belatis has its own shield generator matrix.

page 171
Tanker vessels had taken aboard hundreds of thousands of tonnes of processed promethium from the planet's many fuel refineries, all of it laboriously hauled up into oribt by a fleet of grimy haulage shuttles. Cargo transports filled their cavernous holds with similar quantities of mined adamantium, ferro-titanium, trikali crystal and other materials vital for the Imperium war effort.
- relative indication of the carrying capacities and scale of the transport fleets of a single battlefleet. The implication seems to be they carted off a good portion of the industrail wealth of the planet, which would require fairly large cargo-carrying capacity.

Interesting notice of "ferro-titanium', some sot of composite or combination of tittanium and iron, although the processes by which this occurs are not specified. Also mention of trikali crystals (use unspecified" and again 'mined adamantium", hinting that the material is a "naturally-occuring" mineral/element.
A week ago, a massive and ancient transporter vessel belonging to the Adeptus Mechanicus had arrived in Belatis orbit, despatched by the tech-priests of Mars to rescue not only their brethren from the condemned world, but also the technology and arcane devices held sacred by the servants of the Machine God. For days now, their agile lifter shuttles had been flitting back and forth between the vessel and the planet's surface, carrying back not merely the products of Belatis's tech-priest-maintained industrial factories but also the some of those very factories themselves, disassembled by armies of servitor work-drones. These factories and assembly lines, churning out weapons and war machines for the Imperium armies, incorporated precious and irreplacable technological knowledge held sacred by the members of the Adeptus Mechanicus. The rescued knowledge inherent in these automated factories, ,once reassembled and transplanted to the soil of a Mechanicus forgeworld, would once again be used in the service of the Machine God.
- the AM evidently make extensive use of prefabricated/modular factories and buildings, for them to be able to rapidly tear down/set-up faciliites and transport them from one planet to another. In addition, many of the factories, especially the ones incorporating rare/irreplacable technology are evidently automated (which may or may not hint at how good their industrail capability might be.)

- The AM transport must be quite large, even for handling prefabricated facilities.


misc - mention of a "Black Corvette" run by the Inqusition . Curious, since I would believe a Corvette to be smaller than a frigate and destroyer, and not warp capable. (Unless its a rare or reserved technology not available to the Imperium at large, which would not surprise me.)

page 172 -
It was the Inviolable Retribution, a Punisher class Arbites strike cruiser, constructed in much the same way as the Adeptus Astartes variant and intended for much the same purpose: rapid response planetary assault force deployment and orbital offensive supporrtt. Ultani studied its lean, brutal lines and fearsome armaments with an admiring eye, while the naval officer in him couldn't help assessing the lawkeeper ship's likely capabilities and comparing them to those of his own vessel. The Arbites cruiser was smaller and faster than the navy warship, more heavily armoured and packed more of an offensive punch, but the Macharius was a long-range patrol vessel, designed for extended, independent operation and had a wider variety of offensive and defensive capabilities.
- Description of an Arbites strike cruiser, as well as a reflection on the differecnes between it and a Dictator-class cruiser. The differences also speak of the fact that design tradeoffs play a major role in Imperium warship design: the size of the Macharius is less specailized than the Strike cruiser, with its fighter capability and its ability to operate at longer ranges and for greater lengths of time, whereas the Strike cruiser is optimized for fighting and planetary assault, meaning that much more of its space (even for a smalle rship) can be devoted to armament, speed, and firepower.


Page 172-173
Its main bombardment cannon armament makes it dangerous to ships and planetary targets alike, while its unorthodox main engine array suggests it that it will always have the advantage of speed and manoeuverability.
- Evidently, drive engines also double as manuvering engines, much like they do on STar Wars vessels.


Page 173
"But I believe that the Macharius would still be the victor in any one-to-one confrontation with it." Catching Semper's expectant look, he continued: "Although a fine vessel, it's still primarily a blockade runner and rock-pounder, designed for dealing with orbital defence platforms and putting the fear of the Emperor into planet-based ground forces, not going up against a cruiser-class warship. I doubt that we could manoeuevre it into a position for a close-range torpedo strike, but its comparative lack of anti-ordnance defenses for a vessel of its size would leave it highly vulnerable to attack from our bomber squadrons. Also, our greater reactor output, ability to absorb high crew casualties and superior weapon accuracy at longer ranges would be the telling factors in any extended battle."
- Again, a comparison between the Macharius and the Arbites Strike cruiser designs, emphasizing the trade offs in capabilities the two designs incorporate. Curiously, it is implied here that torpedoes are much shorter-ranged than the weaposn batteries, whereas in prior examples (HElia IV) imply otherwise. This may suggest that there are varying kinds of torpedoes, or that torpedoes can trade off range for increased firepower, or vice versa (A close-range torpedo strike is more powerful than a longer range one.) Which would be consistent with what we know of plasma warhead torpedoes from Battlefleet gothic. It would also explain the evident variance in torpedo size, and why some torpedoes ar emuch slower than others.

of particular interest is Ulanti's mention of "reactor output" - evidently the superior firepower of the Strike cruiser is due to its heavy use of bombardment cannons (physical impactors and warheads both), rather than "directed energy" weaponry. Interestingly, this implies that the explosive payload of the magma bombs of the Strike cruiser are close in power to, but not quite equal to, the Macharius' power output. Alternately, this may also imply that the macharius' own weapons batteries cannot quite handle the full output of the reactor.

[Page 174 - The Macharius's fighter and bomber wings are launched to deploy to the edge of the planetary system to support the Drachenfels and its escrots in patrol and scouting duties. This implies multi-AU ranges for the fighter craft.

Page 176
Since that last contact, the enemy ship had vanished off their target screens, probably cutting its power emissions down to a minimum and drifting into the obscuring shelter of the planet's massive surveyor sensor shadow or the cover offered amongst the debris of its orbital rings. The seven-strong Firedrake squadron - there had not yet been time to replace their losses suffered during the recent battle of Helia IV - were coming in on a widespread search-and-acquire formation, forward surveyors boosted to maximum intensity, but they were now dangerously close to their full operational limit away from the Macharius. They must either find their target soon, the squadron leader knew, or turn back now if they hoped to make it back to the Macharius on their remaining fuel and oxygen reserves.
Again, we note that fighters apparently have multi-AU/multi light-hour operational ranges, making them the most effective long-range weapon available to the Macharius (or any other warship, for that matter.)

Also worth noting tht "surveyors" are implied here to be more of an active-based system, rather than passive based.


Page 177
On board the Starhawks, navigator crewmen swiftly switched off or powered down their search surveyors, decreasing their crafts' tell-tale energy signal outputs and increasing their chances of survival for the long and often danger-fraught jounrey back ot the safety of the Macharius.
again, surveyors are implied to be an active detection rather than passive measure here.

Page 182
Inside the titanium shell of the passenger capsule, through one of the capsule's small, armoured-glasteel windows, Semper looke back to see the familiar hull-shape of the Macharius as it slowly receded from view
Naval shuttles evidently carry their crew in self-contained and separate personnel capsules that presumably double as escape pods. Mention of construction materials titanium and "armoured-glasteel (whatever that is.)
At its front the familiar armoured beak common to most Imperial cruisers, many metres thick and composed of strengthened adamantium, the toughest material known to human science. At its rear were the massive array of plasma drive engines, which, together with the generarium reactors and arcane technology of the vessel's warp drive made up over a third of the Macharius's mass.
again the prow of an Imperial cruiser is "metres thick". Also of note is the idea that Adamantium in the prow is "strengthened" in some way, either via the construction technique or the addition of other materials. The prime benefit of adamantium in the hull is evidently to give it structural durability (which makes sense with the "hardness" mentioned before.) Adamantium clearly is implied to have very good physical/structural properties, possibly superior to other elements such as iron, steel, etc.)

- the plasma engines, reactors, and warp drive comprise 1/3 of the Macharius' mass. Curiously, this seems to imply the inclusion of the fuel supply, which suggests the Macharius carries very little fuel despite its prodigious power generation capabilities.

Page 183
In between these two points was the main body of the ship: dozens of decks of gun batteries and magazine arsenals, flight bays and workshops, cargo holds and quartermaster stores, dormitories and infirmiries, chapel shrines and prison brigs.
- dozens of gun decks implies dozens or hundreds of individual guns making up each of the Macharius' broadsides, depending on how manyn guns per deck/battery.

- mention of workshops reinforces the 'long range independent operation" aspect.. they evidently can build/construct much of what they need independent of a base.
No two Imperium vessels -even those of the same class - were identical. Centuries, sometimes even millenia, of modifications and repairs using whatever local construction methods and materials were available in any of the countless different orbital repair yards and forge-world dry-docks maintained throughout the Imperium saw to that
indication of the operational lifetimes of naval vessels, hinting at their durability. Also mention that "no two vessels are alike", hinting that while they may be broadly similar, individual vessels can differ in small or significant ways from one another in some cases (which may account for evident disparities in capabilities which may arise.)
More than ten thousand souls, from Semper himself to the lowliest convict rating or servitor drone, lived within the armoured hull. More than ten thousand, a figure greater than the fighting complment of the largest Imperial Guard regiment, and many of that ten thousand-plus doubled as fighting troops, trained to take parrt in the bloody close-quarters boarding assaults that were a frequent part of space warfare. Indeed, the captain of an Imperial Navy warship commanded destructive capabilities undreamt of by any mere Imperial Guard commander. Its hull-side batteries could raze whole cities with sustained orbital bombardments. Its attack craft - it carried more than a hundred of them - could reach across star systems to strike at enemy targets, while its warp engines carried it across the vast interstellar gufls to wherever the Emperor's enemies might be. There was even space within its cargo holds and crew compartments to carry thousands of extra troops - as much as a full Imperial Guard infantry regiment, if need be- from one warzone to another, and with greater speed
and safety than any slow and vulnerable troop transport vessel.
- The Crew of the Macharius includes officers as well as srvitor drones.

- Semper implies that no Imperial Guard regiment possesses no more than 10,000 or so fighting troops. Note that Semper is referring only to the solider complement, it does not include support elements (which may make up an additional, substantial percentage of the regiment's size.)

- "sustained orbital bombardments" capable of razing whole cities (plural.) It is also implied no Imperial Guard regiment possesses even close to this level fo firepower (at least not typicallyu.) Suggesting that high kiloton/low megaton level weaponry is non-standard/forbidden to most regiments.

- again fighter craft are implied to have multi-AU/light-hour operational ranges.

- A dictator-class cruiser can carry up to another full Imperial Guard regiment in addition to its 10,000+ crew.
Last edited by Connor MacLeod on 2007-03-26 04:26pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11932
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2006-10-24 03:53am

Just to clarify, comparatively small ships like destroyers and frigates are warp capable. Much smaller vessels (keeping in mind a small destroyer is a kilometer long), such as that owned by Jaq Draco are capable both of entering the warp, making planetfall, and being operated by a crew of less than a half dozen. Warp engines and the equipment (such as Geller field generators and, of course, a navigator) do appear to cost quite a bit though.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Lost Soal
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2492
Joined: 2002-10-22 06:25am
Location: Back in Newcastle.

Post by Lost Soal » 2006-10-24 01:17pm

Don't know if you picked up on it but Adamantium appears to defy conventional material science. The page 80 quote states it's "diamond hard" for good penetration while the 182 quote says its the toughest material known to human science. Toughness and hardness are usually inversely proportional yet they appear to have found a way around this.
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra

There is no "I" in TEAM. There is a ME however.

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11932
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2006-10-24 08:17pm

Earlier fluff on admantium says that it has to be forged inside a plasma furnace. It's also very dense.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-26 01:14am

Lost Soal wrote:Don't know if you picked up on it but Adamantium appears to defy conventional material science. The page 80 quote states it's "diamond hard" for good penetration while the 182 quote says its the toughest material known to human science. Toughness and hardness are usually inversely proportional yet they appear to have found a way around this.
What you say about toughness and hardness is true, but on reviewing what I've posted, I have both quotes, and it only says the "prows" themselves are diamond hard (page 80), while the other quote says its the toughest material. And the prows are "strengthened" Adamantium (whatever that means.)

I think we can safely conclude that the hardness comes from other materials combined with adamantium.
Imperial Overlord wrote:Earlier fluff on admantium says that it has to be forged inside a plasma furnace. It's also very dense.
To be covered later, although I'm not sure about the "plasma forged" bit in terms of what it means.

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11932
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2006-10-26 01:41am

Only the temperatures at the heart of a plasma reactor are high enough to form and mold adamantium, which suggests it might be an alloy. Its also why its highly resistant to beam weapons as it takes an immense amount of energy to soften or melt, let alone vaporize.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-26 03:32am

Page 191
The Fury suddenly pulled up, its pilot hitting his lifter jets as he seeded the ruins below with high-explosive incendiary death released from the dual bomb racks slung beneath its wings. The Fury surged back upwards, pursued by a column of phospherant fire that expanded rapidly to devour over two square kilometres of buildins and ruijns, scouring them clean of all human life.
The "high explosive incendiary" payload of a Fury interceptor evidently creates a fireball/firestorm that consumes roughly 2 million square meters. If we assume the "fire" is literally a fire, then it might be a mile-diameter fireball (roughly 1 megaton.) If we assume extreme thermal radiation it would be roughly 1-2 kilotons or so.

(we can double check this by assuming a "lethal" temperature heating the air.. say 500 K. It takes about 1000 J/kg*K for heating air. Assuming a 50 meter height (conservative, IMHO, the quote implies the height was much higher) and 2 million square meters (density of air is ~1.2 kg/m^3) - about 60 TJ worth of energy, roughly speaking. Which should work well as an "order of magnitude" estimate, since I am being conservative, but I am also using a fairly average temperature.) assuming roughly 6,000 kg payload for the interceptor (might be higher) 6 GJ/kg.. rather high for chemical explosives I believe (which might actually hint at the figure being somewhat excessive..) It may be somethign else (plasma, melta, etc.)

Page 196:
After the initial shock of the attack, the wrath of the orbiting Imperial warships would be swift and summary, and the reinforced rockcrete walls of these underground silos and the hundred meters of rock and soil above their heads would offer little protection from the sustained bombardment from the gun batteries of a Capital class warship.
A capital ship's batteries (at least on sustained bombardment) can easily penetrate 100+ meters of rock By itself this is not really calcable, but it may give hints in other cases (if the surface area of the bases is known, for example, or the depth to which the crust may be turned molten in an Exterminatus - after all, if they can bury defense installations that deep, they can surely bury other facilities equally deep.)

Page 199:
The Arbitrator shook his head. 'Communications with the governor-regent's palace are poor, at best. The enemy could be trying to jam our signals, or it could even be interference from that Emperor-damned defence shield. You throw enough rainwater at that thing, it'll generate enough static interference to block out most comm signals.
mention of "jamming" communications signals (Evidently some measure of EW is known, although the masures themselves are not specified.)

Also, interactions with the shielding seem also to be capable of generating interference, although its implied the shields themselves might normally be permeable to such communications. Presumably similar criteria occur with void shielding (since void shielding can generate "blasts" that obscure sensors, one would presume this is a similar phenomena.)

Page 204:
the volley of defence laser fire impacted against the cruiser's void shields, burning through them in seconds but expending the greater part of its energy in the effort. What was left struck the Imperial ship's underbelly, scoring through the armoured hull and into the mechanical innards of its engines' power feeds. Had the void shields been at any lower level, the lance beams would have punched through into the ship's generarium core, ,erupting amongst its volatile plasma reactors and possibly destrtoying the entire vessel in a catastrophic chain reaction.
The previous page indicates that the Graf Orlok, the vessel in question, was maintaining its shields at fifty percent power. At this setting the lance strike of the battery pierced the void shields in a matter of "seconds", but "most" of the energy was absorbed in the procecss.

This gives us an approximate duration on lance firing (as well as how long it takes to collapse shields.) It also tells us that hull armor in most places seems to be at least several times weaker than the shielding

We also learn, again, that plasma reactors are "volatile", which clearly indicates we are not dealing with mere fusion reactors (despite the reference to "plasma.".) The "chain reaction" bit is curious, as it implies the vessel's mass would be consumed in the chain reaction, implying some sort of anniliation reaction (or something more exotic.)
When the recharged defence batteries strruck again less than a minute later, their deadly beams exploded harmlessly against the Lunar class cruiser's now fully-restored void shields.
A lance battery can take no longer than a minute (less, actually) to fire.. and this is an upper limit, probably generous (recharrge time does not necceearily mean that the energy is discharged at the same rate It could be much shorter.)

We also learn that "full power" shields easily stop the strike, meaning that an upper limit on shield durability would be twice the "half power" settings.

It also takes a Lunar-class cruiser less than a minute to bring its void shields from half power to full power (and presumably an equal time from zero power/standby to half power.)
Elsewhere amongst the orbiting fleet, vessels fired up main drives and manouvering thrusters, seeking to escape the batteries' high orbital reach.
"high orbital reach" implies beyond geosynchronous orbit, so the ground batteries are implied to be capable of hitting targets tens of thousands of kilometers away (alot greater than the ranges implied in Battlefleet gothic.) This also means the following bombardment occurs at ranges in excess of geosynchronous orbit (36,000 km or so roughly.)

Page 206
Seconds later, the stricken Arcona blew apart as the deadly focused streams of energy lancing up from the surface of Belatis cut it in half.
Once more it evidently a lance strtike lasting for "seconds" in destroying a vessel (albeit a transport, this time.)
The Belatis system was not a large one - scarcely a third of the size of the Terran system - but the Drachenfels, maintaining watch over the outer system approaches, was still several light minutes distant from the rest of the Imperial force. The subsequent delay in normal communication channels - at this distance, it would take almost a quarter of an hour to recieve and send back the simplest vox message -necessitated the use of astropaths t o instantaneously relay vital battle orders and communiques between vessels in the same star system.
Belatis is 1/3 the size of the Terran system (from pluto, the TErran system is roughly 40 AU in radius, which means that Belatius is about ~13 AU in radius.)

The Drachenfels is 7.5 light-minutes from Belatis and the Imperial fleet there, given the lag time for a light-speed communication.

Page 207
But, before the craft could recharge its weapons batteries' depleted energy reserves, an answering blast from the Charybdis's enormous starboard plasma cannon batteries tore off the Achilles's prow and destroyed its internal power relay systems.
A Sword-class frigate's laser batteries evidently run of capacitors that require an extended recharge time, though the reasons why are unknown. (It could be limitations in the power relay system that prevent it from venting the full output of the reactors to the weapons, it could be power being drawn by other systems such as engines or shields, or it cold be that the laser batteries are meant to be several times more powerful than the reactor output. Or the ship may have a substandard/damaged/ineffeicient reactor compared to other vessels of its size. As previously noted, Imperium vessels can vary even inside of a given class.)

Page 208
Those who had seen the terrifying spectacle of Titans in battle - and Ramas himself had - never forgot it, but Ramas laughed at the notion of such power being described as godlike. No, the power to traverse the warp and travel anywhere within the almost limitless bounds of the Imperium of Mankind; the power to rain fire down from the heavens on the heads of the Emperor's enemies; the power to enter battle in command of an Imperial warship, to feel blows that would crush the greatest Titan war-machine deflect harmlessly off your armoured flanks, to send back volleys of fire
that would destroy an entire Titan legion with one blast.
Ramas contemplates thre relative capabilities of an Imperial warship relative to a titan. It would follow he means a cruiser, but its also possible he means a smaller vessel like a frigate as well. In parrticular, we learn:

- The firepower needed to destroy the most powerful Titan would deflect "harmlessly" off of warship armor. If anyone has anything that can attach a number to this, it might be useful.

Also take note that the context implies that Imperial armor is designed to "absorb and redirect" energy fire striking it, much like Dura-armor in Star Wars, or the Excalibur's hull in B5/Crusade.

- A single volley from a warship can destroy an entire titan legion, however many that is.

Page 209
The lance beams played over two of the Infidels, exploding one apart, sending the the other one drifting helpless and dying, its internal compartments and atmosphere set alight by the star-hot lance beams.
- Lance beams are called "star hot" - assuming this is not hyperbole, this may imply that they are some sort of charrged partticle or plasma beam weapon, rather than a laser or "fusion lancecs" mentioned in other sources (like Battle fleet gothic.. Plasma lances, IIRC, have been mentioned before.)

I suppose "star hot" would imply a temperature of millions of K in a lance, but context-wise this doesnt really tell us much in terms of energy.

Page 210 - A Gothic-class cruiser evidently has at least eight lance turrets (four per side it would seem - one even- and one odd-numbered side.)

Also is implied that the Gothic-class cruiser has some sort of "automated" repair elements to the ship, it having an ability to "react" or "recover" frfom wounds dealt to it.

Page 212
Armaments that could hurl energy hundreds of thousands of kilometers across space now turned their power on the planet's surface in an awesome display of destructive capability, gouging wounds hundreds of meters deep into the rock and soil of the hills in search of the silos, command bunkers and generator caverns buried there.
Imperial Warships (and Arbites Strike cruisers) have effective weapons ranges of "hundreds of thousands of kilometrs", although just how many is unspecified (at elast 200,000.) Note as well that The Macharius was implied to have a longer range than the Arbites Strike cruiser, and Chaos ships in general are supposed to have even greater range than that.

Also note that the bombardment is punching "hundreds of meters" into the crust of the planet, not including the volume of matter in the hills themselves. Again, this tells us the depth to which vital facilities can be buried (possibly useful in exterminatus calcs.)
A gunnery officer aboard the Borodinounwittingly granted their wish, directing a mis-aimed salvo of energy blasts away from his intended target down the hillside and onto the heads of the cultists, wiping the township and all it contained of the face of the planet.
A single weapons salvo from the Borodino evidently dcimates an entire town in a single hit (implying substantial vaporization over a larrge volume in order to create a fireball/blast wave effect.)
Inside one of the command bunkers, the loyal sevant that Khoisan had left in command of the cultist forces there felt the growing, rumbling tremors as the impacts from the Imperial bombardment pushed closer and deeper into the rock strata.
Despite bombarding "hundreds of meters deep", the facility remains untouched, suggesting significant dpeth (possibly as much as a half kilometer to a kilometer or so.)


Page 213
Seconds later, the roof of the chamber caved in. A split-second after that, the entire bunker complex was obliterated, vaporised, in the all-consuming furnace of white-hot plasma .
A single plasma burst evidently "vaporized" the entire command bunker. This may imply that the bombardment created a hundred+ meter deep/wide hole.

If we assume the blast was 100 meters deep, and the complex hundreds of meters in diameter, then the blst would probably have been in the hundreds of megatons range (bearing in mind also that while we dont know the duration/number of shots, this was also clearly a reduced-firepower incident: They don't want to render the planet uninhabitable after all.

PAge 215 - "seconds" woth of laser cannon fire from 3 Fury interceptors can shatter/melt the armor of a surface-launched torpedo.

Assuming 10 seconds, and that the torpedo's armor masses as much as a fury (and half the armor is melted off), each Fury is delivering 4 GW worth of sustained firepower. Tyhis can be considered an approximation, or conservative, of course.

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14058
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2006-10-26 03:34am

Imperial Overlord wrote:Only the temperatures at the heart of a plasma reactor are high enough to form and mold adamantium, which suggests it might be an alloy. Its also why its highly resistant to beam weapons as it takes an immense amount of energy to soften or melt, let alone vaporize.
The problem is, Adamantium itself is supposed to be a natural mineral. I think that might impose some limits as to what sorts of properties it "naturally" has. So there would have to be some element of artificial or exotic introduced into the process for it to be quite resistant to those sorts of temperatures. I never really considered the "adamantium" by itself to be inhherently thermally resistant (whatever they combine it with probably includes some material highly resistant to thermal energy.)

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11932
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2006-10-26 03:46am

Lances, in BFG fluff, are several powerful beam projectors focused into a single beam. The most common type, in the Imperium, are lasers but lances aren't necessary lasers (the Tau use ion beams).
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

Adrian Laguna
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4736
Joined: 2005-05-18 01:31am

Post by Adrian Laguna » 2006-10-26 04:29pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:- Semper implies that no Imperial Guard regiment possesses no more than 10,000 or so fighting troops. Note that Semper is referring only to the solider complement, it does not include support elements (which may make up an additional, substantial percentage of the regiment's size.)
Semper is mistaken about the size of an Imperial Guard regiment. There is no regular size for them, the number of men in a regiment can vary dramatically depending on what planet it is raised from and what purpose it will serve. Unlike regiments in the real Earth, which are components of armies, regiments in the Imperium are armies in their own right.

Consider the following from Eisenhorn: Xenos
"By order of the Lord Militant Commander, seven hundred and fifty thousand men are being inducted into the Imperial Guard to form the 50th Gudrunite Rifles."
So that's 750,000 men making up a regiment raised from a civilized planet. Gudrun's population is never mentioned, but based on the description of the planet I'd say 4-12 thousand millions.

User avatar
white_rabbit
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2002-09-30 09:04pm

Post by white_rabbit » 2006-10-27 05:01am

Imperial Overlord wrote:Lances, in BFG fluff, are several powerful beam projectors focused into a single beam. The most common type, in the Imperium, are lasers but lances aren't necessary lasers (the Tau use ion beams).

Andy Chambers original description of Lances was of giant lasers, firing "through" and with gigantic particle beam emitters.

Thus we reconcile the lasgun dilemma, micro-sized lance weaponry!

Mwahahahahaha
Image

Post Reply
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=136148&p=2257297&hilit=+40K+analysis
bbs.stardestroyer.net
crawl=CC-MAIN-2019-30
180931
application/http; msgtype=response
sha1:EDMAJ3EZZ3MT4QIQRWNT752W23V2FRS6
<urn:uuid:3de4c626-9b62-4023-b1c8-525cce04bc50>
2019-07-24T05:34:30Z
184.149.37.53
text/html
sha1:A7GUY3UWXWUATMRQL4WNAV7YGBJHCX5F
<urn:uuid:e17b835e-c2e7-4b31-b52a-2d7a6bcb2e6e>
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=136148&p=2257297&hilit=+40K+analysis
response
<urn:uuid:3c6ddd80-5b6c-4717-9fb6-d9e48ed10eaa>
isPartOf: CC-MAIN-2019-30
publisher: Common Crawl
description: Wide crawl of the web for July 2019
operator: Common Crawl Admin (info@commoncrawl.org)
hostname: ip-10-146-52-92.ec2.internal
software: Apache Nutch 1.15 (modified, https://github.com/commoncrawl/nutch/)
robots: checked via crawler-commons 1.1-SNAPSHOT (https://github.com/crawler-commons/crawler-commons)
format: WARC File Format 1.1
conformsTo: http://iipc.github.io/warc-specifications/specifications/warc-format/warc-1.1/