Another of those "who would win" arguements on a Grand Scale...

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Lone_Wolf_Radick
07/30/04 04:33 PM
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Perhaps I should have clarified myself, my post was mostly meant as a jest at Omega, but since you seem to have had a nerve hit, you kindof proved my point by going into "shut up you're stupid" mode without adding to the discussion... I did take a shot at Omega yes, but it was in jest, and furthermore, if you disagree with what I'm saying that's fine, that's why I started this thread, but be more educated about it... I even tried to find chinks in the Imperial armor at the start of this thread and continue to look for them... I'd rather this post not de-volve into a ST VS SW flamewar, like I said that's already been done and my goal is not to insult anyone, but rather get a new view on a Grand Scale VS conflict... That means licenses OTHER than SW VS ST... here's a new twist... Anyone with Stats, numbers or whatever for any license not yet mentioned, or info to fill in would be helpful... But the new twist: Which of the Factions involved so far would make good hybrid mixes, allies, spies, etc? Which race from one universe would be most likely to survive in another? Myself, I think I'd have to go with Human first, because they're everywhere, the one common thread, then probably the Mon Calamari from SW and the Romulans from ST, followed by the Vorlons from Babylon 5. Once again, fans of whatever you may be, I meant no offense, it's just a post, let's leave it as such and return to topic. Thank you.
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
07/30/04 04:37 PM
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BTW, I don't really consider Stardestoyer.net as a Fanboy site, because they at least used CANON info from both sides of the discussion, and at least some of the posters made a concious effort to not insult either side... But if that's not enough for ya, there is another site out there that simply does VS things, and among SW VS ST there's also Alien, Predator (other good factions to add I think) King Kong VS Godzilla, some are very entertaining... Give it a shot, post your own if you dispute it, variety is the spice of life...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
cmryan
07/30/04 05:37 PM
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Hello Lone_Wolf, I agree Humans can survive just about anywhere. I think Wookies would have better odds surviving in a change of universe setting. They can fight they are very familiar with technology. The Mon Calimari I believe are very dependant on having a lot of water in their enviroment. So If a Mon Calimari and a Wookie got shipped to Arrakis I think the Wookie would survive.
The trueborn warriors of the Clans once they got a good look at the size of the Galactic Empire would be vulnerable to recruitment by the Empire. The warrior doing the recruiting could very easily promise autonomy and high rank in the Empire and the Empire would receive Omni Mechs. The twist here is that the Empire is so big the trueborn will simply be absorbed into the immense population of the Empire.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
07/30/04 10:56 PM
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Nicely played, cmryan, I see your point about the moisture necessary for Mon Cal Survival... Wookies perhaps, but they prefer heights and Arrakis doesn't exactly have many trees... Perhaps the Sand people, though not advanced, would fare better at least there, where I think they'd find kindred spirits in the Fremen, no? As far as mixes and allies, I agree about the clans being seduced by the promise of power and glory in the Empire, with nothing else to fight (all being in a neutral universe and all) they'd find a way to wage war somewhere against someone. But I think they'd make the Empire or whoever wished to ally with them earn it on the field of battle first through a series of trials...and would that by default lead the IS to ally with whoever opposed the faction to absorb the clans? Mixes... Hmm... An Assimilated Death Star, a Replicant controlled Guild Jumpship, A Zerg Infested Zentraedi, a mix of Jedi and Asgard, or Lensman even? The possibilities are endless, and each has it's own tantalizing possibilities. As for best Spies? Predator, perhaps? Possibly the Romulan Tal Shi'ar or Imperial Intelligence, or a single replicator infesting a comm device... I think the "business oriented" or "less than honorable" races among this fight and even the minor players have an advantage here... Whilst the "major" players battle it out, it is tactically sound to assume the minor players would hang back and keep themselves under the radar, while learning and attempting to gather intel and equipment... With luck and good purchasing, they just may have a chance to jump on the victor of a larger engagement and come out a major player themselves... It's a sound philosophy dating all the way back to sun tzu's days- "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".... at least until the battle is over...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
cmryan
07/31/04 02:12 PM
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Hi Lone_Wolf, The Sand People on Arrakis? Certainly they would be in a familiar enviroment but I think it would be a violent clash of cutures. The best spies. I don't think the Predators would make the best spies. Once they turn off the invisibility anyone who sees them knows they are in serious trouble. I see the Predators and the Jem Hadr as special forces soldiers or joining assassination squads. Their invisbility skills make them a good fit. A good spy needs to get close enough to a target to manipulate it.
Interesting Mixes. Hmmm. The Replicants and the Borg are not team players. One will absorb the other and no one else will attempt to allly with them. If the Empire can seduce the Clans to its side that is a strong reason for the Inner Sphere to ally itself with the Galactic Patrol. I don't know much about the Asgard but I don't see them as wanting anything to do with the Empire so there is another powerful race to ally itself with the Patrol and the Inner Sphere. The United Federation of Planets would commit Starfleet to the alliance with the Patrol. Hmmm Suppose that instead of the Successor States that make up the Inner Sphere that it is the Pre Kerensky Star Legue that joins this alliance? Your right about minor players and races that would prefer to play both sides against each other. Considering how many species and how many possible combinations of events have already been revealed in this thread I don't think that one galaxy is big enough.
Greyslayer
08/01/04 10:01 PM
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Quote:

Perhaps I should have clarified myself, my post was mostly meant as a jest at Omega, but since you seem to have had a nerve hit, you kindof proved my point by going into "shut up you're stupid" mode without adding to the discussion...




Look at this thread in 'Threaded View', you will see no posts by Omega within this long subthread. The last few posts in this one before the one I am replying too either belonged to myself or yourself. As for saying 'shut up, you're stupid' I never even tried to say that. I would not try to insult those with the IQ level of 'stupid' with such a comment . What I simply said is: READ the post and POST relevant information to that said post, you could probably incorporate statements from earlier posts within the line of the sub-thread, but in general you would need to quote name at least or you should try to QUOTE the specific parts of the said posts you are replying too. Through this you are neither tackling the man or ball, but confusing the issue.

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I did take a shot at Omega yes, but it was in jest, and furthermore, if you disagree with what I'm saying that's fine, that's why I started this thread, but be more educated about it... I even tried to find chinks in the Imperial armor at the start of this thread and continue to look for them... I'd rather this post not de-volve into a ST VS SW flamewar,




You say 'educated', yet you refuse to learn that I have not argued at all the ST vs SW. I informed people of several things here. That some series would create a 'unbalanced' scenario such the 'Skylark' series of novels by EE Doc Smith, that Star Gate have a nasty enemywho have potential to take on pretty much any metal using empire (a purely organic one such as the main enemy of humans in the Full Thrust gaming system would probably not suffer the same fate, at least I think their ships are almost totally organic) and that nearly all these series except only a few have diety-types running around in them. The thread would not devolve into a ST vs Sw flamewar if you stopped making it one. This comes right back to playing the ball, read what I say and post specifically to what I have said. It really isn't that hard. I've made it simple to follow by breaking the threads up and trying to stick to the issues at hand.

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like I said that's already been done and my goal is not to insult anyone, but rather get a new view on a Grand Scale VS conflict... That means licenses OTHER than SW VS ST...




That has been my goal. I even mentioned Asimov's Foundation series. The problem is if it has truly been yours, consciously or subconsciously you keep turning this into a ST vs SW argument.

As for not trying to insult someone I think at one stage you labelled me or omega (hard to tell considering your dyslexic posting methods) a 'trekkie' and a 'whipping boy federation type' in the one post. No emotes to define that you were joking or otherwise. Just this vain belief in a site called Stardestroyer.net that borders on unhealthy.

PS the earlier statement 'playing neither the man or ball' is generally used in rugby union, rugby league and other team orientated ballsports that use tackling as part of it. Generally it is used in the 'playing the man but not the ball', the ball is the important component not the man/woman carrying it at the time. You fail to address the discussion in the posts thus failing to play the ball.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/02/04 01:08 PM
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Well, there you have it... At least this time you added to the discussion, and for that I give you credit... Omega did in fact post and I was in fact attempting to reply to him, take that as you please... and I never called anyone a trekkie, or a whipping boy federation type, read the post more carefully and realize that it was a generalized statement directed at fanboy trekkie types as a whole and not one individual.... if you read this post from the start, you'll see that I have played both sides of this issue, even going to the point of warning someone off taking what they see on Stardestoyer.net as canon, if that qualifies as unhealthy, then so be it... Note: I didn't take any of the info I used in this discussion from that site, if you'll look closely, you'll see it was Spartan who did that. But since we've cooled the flames, what then do you think is the next step? I'm nothing if not curious. Since you wish to deny my capability to provide a fair arguement, then the ball is in your court, provide a new faction, a new scenario, anything... Advance the arguement, don't mire yourself in trying to prove you can take the higher road, because online it really doesn't matter does it? We're not arguing Politics or anything, lighten up... I took a shot at cmryan, and he seemed to accept that it was in jest, and continued positive contributions... as for emotes, I don't see the point. The message should carry itself and when it doesn't, I clarify. But as for Mixes, I think a nice one would be the Protoss from Starcraft with the Predators, who look like Zealots anyways... the addition of cloaking and ranged weapons would make the Protoss into feared ground warriors. Another nice one would be Wookiees and Klingons, or Stormtrooper/Darktrooper Lensmen. Best Spies? I still stand by my statement that Predator, Tal'Shiar, and Imperial Intelligence are the best... For Travel, few can match Dune's Guild or Robotek's Fold engines... But that's just a start...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Spartan
08/02/04 01:31 PM
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I'd just like to point out here that I take my points from stardestoyer.net because his arguments are well thought out and consistent. But also because it's a convenient place to get numbers for comparison since I don't have access to the books. I *do not* go there because I think his arguments are canon, even though he uses canon sources. The numbers he provides and that I have cited are in his own words, back of the envelope calculations used to indicate orders of magnitude and therefore demonstrate the power and subsequent damage involved.

On a related note, I'd like to state for the record that I don't think that the SW universe is the end-all-be-all of the sci-fi crossover realm and have acknowledged that other techs could, at the very least, give SW a run for their money.
Spartan

We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.

(I refer you to what Nightward said)
Greyslayer
08/02/04 05:16 PM
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Quote:

Well, there you have it... At least this time you added to the discussion, and for that I give you credit... Omega did in fact post and I was in fact attempting to reply to him, take that as you please... and I never called anyone a trekkie, or a whipping boy federation type, read the post more carefully and realize that it was a generalized statement directed at fanboy trekkie types as a whole and not one individual....




I'd hate to see you argue for your life.
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Incorrect... Fleets were never destroyed, and if you read those rubbish "new republic books" you'll see that the Empire is virtually left alone with 8 sectors of controlled space while aliens invade... I always find it so funny when trekkies try to defend themselves...



You will notice the expansive usage of you in the above quote. This is a directive to an individual, then in the same paragraph you say you did not target the person the earlier part of the paragraph was aimed at? How on earth would a person be able to tell this?

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You know, facts aside, we'll probably never convince Omega of his folly for the same reason you can't convince any trek Fanboy of their folly: The inability to accept the truth when shown, because it would simply shatter their little world. Trek fans are the worst at this by far, and I'm not just saying that because I'm a star Wars fan, it's been proven time and time again, in the face of scientific fact or overwhelming dissent, they all simply revert into "shut up, you're stupid!" mode and bug out...




Part 1: To be continued.... (always wanted to do that in a post ).
Quote:

Perhaps I should have clarified myself, my post was mostly meant as a jest at Omega, but since you seem to have had a nerve hit, you kindof proved my point by going into "shut up you're stupid" mode without adding to the discussion...



Again you lined yourself up for a personal attack then claim none to have happened, direct correlation of posts and times indicate this DID occur.

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if you read this post from the start,




Thread or post? Post is singular it can include a thread IF the thread totals ONE post.

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you'll see that I have played both sides of this issue, even going to the point of warning someone off taking what they see on Stardestoyer.net as canon, if that qualifies as unhealthy, then so be it... Note: I didn't take any of the info I used in this discussion from that site, if you'll look closely, you'll see it was Spartan who did that.




Spartan to his credit played the ball. He never accused me of starting SW vs ST flamewars as I didn't even bother with it. He never, despite the fact I said I was not interested and the fact I didn't discuss SW vs ST kept reinterating that I should visit said site.

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But since we've cooled the flames, what then do you think is the next step? I'm nothing if not curious. Since you wish to deny my capability to provide a fair arguement, then the ball is in your court, provide a new faction, a new scenario, anything...




You mean a new faction apart from the others I already introduced? Asgard, replicators, Goa'uld, Asimov's Federation, Smith's Skylark, need I go on?

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as for emotes, I don't see the point.




Ignorance is bliss apparently. It helps to show intent.

Quote:

The message should carry itself and when it doesn't, I clarify.




Lol, gee going on your current ability to clarify I REALLY think you should be using emoticons .

Quote:

But as for Mixes, I think a nice one would be the Protoss from Starcraft with the Predators, who look like Zealots anyways... the addition of cloaking and ranged weapons would make the Protoss into feared ground warriors. Another nice one would be Wookiees and Klingons, or Stormtrooper/Darktrooper Lensmen. Best Spies? I still stand by my statement that Predator, Tal'Shiar, and Imperial Intelligence are the best... For Travel, few can match Dune's Guild or Robotek's Fold engines... But that's just a start...




This 'mixing' would depend on proximity, resources (as most conflict may occur over scarce resources, replicators need neutronium to make the advanced human replicators and Asgard use it as a cornerstone of their technology. Replicators can use any metal to make more replicators it is just the human-looking ones that need the metal). Many games like Master of Orion have 'first encounter' situations as so on, some 'licences' like Star Trek have a fairly detailed universe on the intrigues and specific technologies known. Others fail to have anywhere near the information to create an accurate description for and thus comparison too. For example when I said the Asgard use transporters you automatically assumed that like Star Trek ships they require a ship's shield to be down. I don't have the information as to whether that is in fact true. Ha'tark vessels are shielded and I know on a couple of situations transporting worked or in one situation where an entire Ha'tark and retinue was (retinue was already all inside the Star Gate Command Base) were transported away from earth. This was a mirror dimension episode, but you get the picture. If for example Star Trek ships were to acquire this tech from the fairly peaceful Asgard this could make conflict with Imperials quite interesting.

Spies, technology, strength of numbers, alliances, it all means nothing when the ewoks rule the universe
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/02/04 08:11 PM
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Ignoring barbs as to my intent and means of carrying myself, I will have to research more on Asgard tech before quoting too much... Suffice to say that I still believe a transporter would have a min and max effective range, and using physics to compute operation, would at least initially assume that an energy tool/weapon could be blunted by the proper frequency and amplitude energy screen (or shield)... and Imperial weaponry to my knowledge outdistances any transporter system... But Like I said, more research is needed. Since you are the only one who seems hell-bent on proving me wrong or at the very least arguing semantics or intention, I'll not answer any more such attempts. It's obvious neither of us will change the other's perception, but I do find it amusing that you were so quick to leave the topic at hand to attempt and find what is at best questionable chinks in my argument. So what if I'm not an award winning speaker? Let's just do the rest of the site a favor and leave our pet peeves out of the larger topic, shall we? Reading through it from end to end we were doing a fine job until you got rubbed the wrong way and to that I say sorry and simultaneously tough, seeing as how I did start the thread to begin with... Sorry also because it was never my intent to attack (except in jest) and if you find my emote-less form of speaking and dry wit against your liking, I can only offer you apologies for misconception, not apologies for the way I am. Ignorance may be bliss, yes, but don't confuse silence (or lack of emoticons) for lack of ability or intelligence. I do appreciate your input on the Asgard and the others, but those weren't necessisarily Introduced... Those were pretty big named in license, easily found and researched... the Lensmen were more in line with what I was talking about, going on my "minor players" trend in order to gain new info and partly to stave off what is quickly devolving into a licensing skirmish... Leave your misconceptions and obviously loaded jabs at the door in future replies, and I'll at least guarantee the same... Agree to disagree, I believe?
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/02/04 08:15 PM
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A run for the money, yes, and that was the intent, clouded though it has become... It was also to see and learn about other licenses with an emphasis on minor players, to encourage discourse in a way that (I had hoped) would remain lighthearted... I don't know about you all, but the real world is stressful enough, I turn to SW and BT and all the rest to ESCAPE such stresses, which is why I try to avoid such petty bickering among online kindreds... I didn't start the thread expecting a "let's jump on the Empire" bandwagon, though you must admit the numbers tend to favor them in just about every scenario... Your thoughts on Mixes, Crossovers, Spies? I'm hoping the little fracas that has dominated the last few posts hasn't scared anyone else off...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/02/04 08:18 PM
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Actually, I'd have to disagree on the Clash of culture... Language barrier aside, the Sand People and Fremen live virtually the same way, nomadic hunters, constantly following the water... I think once the Languages were mastered, they'd eventually come together if for no other reason than necessity, because Arrakis isn't exactly a hospitable environment, and the Sand People would need to learn from someone or something how to deal with Sandworms... Krayt dragons at least you can see coming!
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/02/04 08:28 PM
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BTW, that reminds me: Does anyone have specific numbers relating to the forces of Robotek, the Predators, or any of the others mentioned in passing but not as yet expounded on? The Galactic Patrol, for example... What about leaders or heroic characters? Villains? Who do you all think would earn the honors in those catagories? Leaders- Hanse Davion, the Founders, Princess Leia... Heroes- I'd have to go with Chewie, Lando, Wedge... Just to move past the "Luke and han save all" motif, Comstar, Vlad Ward, Geordi Laforge (I can't help it, I feel a kindred with fellow engineers)... Villians- Obviously, The Emperor and Vader, but what about Tarkin or Veers? Anybody from house Liao or Kurita(not based on facts, just on my personal belief and playing against people who like to use them), the Romulan Empire, and the Zerg... I neglected to mention any other factions (i.e. Stargate, Babylon 5, Farscape) due to the fact that I don't think I know quite enough about any of them to pick overall heroes... but if anyone does I'm open to suggestions... Even you, Greyslayer... No hard feelings, eh?
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Greyslayer
08/02/04 08:38 PM
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Intellect and claiming to be the owner of are two separate things, until such a realisation comes about on your part it seems pointless to argue any further.

Now that you claim 'ownership' of this thread I will now remove myself from further 'discussion' on any topics within this thread, afterall I wouldn't want to annoy the 'god' of the thread
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/02/04 08:40 PM
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Ewoks? Now you're scaring me... all the licenses sould rise up and take the annoying teddy-bears with spears out! In reference to post# 95539, it does appear that my barbs were intended at you, and I can see your confusion... I fused what in essence was supposed to be two replies, one to you and one to Omega, who did post about ST and Q beating everybody in much the same way the Archangel did (BTW, Nightward, would appreciate more info on this series...) So I guess the fault in the conflict does indeed lie with me... There I said it... Can we continue normally now???
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/02/04 08:42 PM
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I never claimed to be "god" of anything, that would be blasphemy... it's just so hard to make peace with some people.... For the record I didn't BAR you from anything, in fact I actually enjoy the break from reality and the discourse, no matter how pointed it may be... if you choose to withdraw it is your right but I'm not asking it...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
cmryan
08/03/04 09:28 AM
4.12.82.110

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If a few Sand People found themselves on Arrakis then the Fremen could play the part of gracious host. If the number of Sand People is roughly equal to the number of Fremen, then there will be extreme trouble precisely because food and water are extremely scarce on Arrakis. Of course The Spice Guild might be willing to support the Sand People in exchange for service fighting the Sand People.
cmryan
08/03/04 09:35 AM
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On the subject of Hero's and villian's in the Lensman Universe. Virgil Samms was the first Lensman. Kimball Kinnison, Nadreck of PalainVII, Worsel of Velantia, Tregonsee of Rigel. these are the Second Stage Lensman. The Children of the Kimball Kinnison and his wife Clarissa Macdougall. They became the Third Stage Lensmen and the successors to the Arisians.
On the Subject of villilans the Empire of Boskone was the main enemy of the Galactic Patrol. The Eddorians were the losers in a power struggle in their own dimension. They escaped, made their way to the Lensman Universe. The Arisians raised up the Galactic Patrol to be the weapon that could and would destroy the Eddorians.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/03/04 09:40 AM
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The guild, and probably also the Teliaxu and or the IX... I think if enough resources exist however, that fate and battle would inevitably draw the Tuskens and the Fremen together, whether or not they actually liked one another... and how then would the Fremen exist on Tatooine? I think they would worship the Moisture vaporators...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/03/04 09:41 AM
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Nicely done... Appreciate the info... I believe there was a Samms in the anime I saw, but don't quote me on that...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/03/04 09:44 AM
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Pulling out after arguing semantics it akin to leaving a pickup game because you realize the ball isn't yours, or because your team isn't playing by your rules... It's akin to abandoning your battle buddy because he entered a building first then let you know it... I hold you in higher esteem than that, and your animosity aside, you must grudgingly at least offer the same or you wouldn't have stayed in this long... If you have something to contribute, by all means do so... Consider this another olive branch, one offered in the spirit of open communication...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/03/04 09:46 AM
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BTW, which weapons or planets would have the most positive and Negative impacts on other galaxies (or their own)... Which authors would draw up good stories? Which licenses (other than ones already created) would make good games? And finally, just for fun, which universe boasts the Ugliest and most incompetent people???
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
cmryan
08/03/04 10:15 AM
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Hello Lone_Wolf,
On the subject of Mixes. I believe the Galactic Patrol would find common ground with the United Federation of Planets and the Star League. The Federation would sell computer technology and warp drive to the Star League and to the Galactic Patrol. Also one item that I havent mentioned earlier. The Galactic Patrol and the Empire of Boskone fought an intergalactic war. The Patrol won. So the Galactic Patrol is raising up democracy in two galaxies. The Asgard are also capable of intergalactic travel so it the Borg Collective and the Replicants fuse into an even bigger threat it is likely that the Asgard will join the Patrol, Federation, Star League alliance.Since the Lensman books were published between the 1930s and the 1960s the transistor was high tech. Star Trek computers as seen in TNG, DS9 and Voyager would be an amazing improvement. I think Star Trek computers are as good as or perhaps better than the Star League vintage computers and certainly better than the lostech computers that are common in BattleTech.
On a slight change in subject. I think the Jem Had'r are a mistake on the part of the Dominion. Their effectiveness is limited by their dependance on having adequate supplies of Quetrecel White(spelling). So they are on a very short leash. The idea that they don't need to eat or sleep is incomprehensible. How does anyone or anything grow without food and water? Their life expectancy is only 30 years. Even though they can grow to adult size in the course of a one hour episode of DS9 (without food or water) 30 years is a very brief life. Also what about education? Even if it is possible to program an education into the growth process. What about information that wasn't included in that education. Do the Jem Had'r have any capacity to learn new things? If not they are in serious trouble and so is the Dominion. The Jem Had'r are a weak link. Maybe the Dominion should consider replacing the Jem Had'r withe the Predators.
Spartan
08/03/04 11:49 AM
65.68.200.170

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I try to stay away from mixes. It's complex enough just having 2 different universes come together without adding in possible alliances or multi-front conflicts.

And at any rate I don't think alliances are that easy to predict. Look at what happened when the Dominion invaded. 2 Alpha quad species joined up with them IIRC, at least one signed a non-agression treaty and only 2 actually declared war and of those one was responding to attack(which was in turn a response to a percieved invasion, specifically colonies) and the other was simply honoring a treaty.

BTW, I did not follow ST:DS9 as closely as it may seem so if my details are off let me know.
Spartan

We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.

(I refer you to what Nightward said)
cmryan
08/03/04 02:35 PM
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Hello Lone_Wolf,
A ringworld from the Known Space books by Larry Niven would add three million earths worth of living space to any star system that has one. That would be a tremendous help in providing living room for the immense populations fornd in the StarWars and Galactic Patrol universes. It could also become a valuable target in a war.
The HyperSpatial Tube, Bergenholm and the Sun Beam all of which come out of the Galactic Patrol would be a tremendous benefit to the Civilization of the Lens.
A Bergenholm can be scaled up from units suitable for one person all the way up to units suitable for freeing a planet from its own orbit.
The Sun Beam is a powerful defensive weapon. The output of a main sequence star is around four million tons of mass converted to energy each second. Aim that against an invader and his odds of survival are somewhere between slim and none. Unless the invader can keep an inhabited planet between himself and the Sun Beam. Just imagine if you had a construction project that needed the full energy output of a main sequence star. You can convert the SunBeam into a power supply. Building a ringworld would probably be a project that needs that kind of power.
The HyperSpatial Tube. Its not a weapon but still it will have a tremendous effect if used for war or peace. The Tube can span distances from planetary to inter-galactic. HyperSpatial Tubes can be made for single person speedsters or scaled up to a diameter suitable for moving planets or entire space fleets.
As for your last question. The real world has the ugliest and most incompetant people in it. Otherwise why would we want to spend time and money on fictional universes.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/04/04 09:08 AM
65.1.42.9

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True enough, but it seems to me that the underlying mistrust in ST should have been overridden by fear of a common foe, no? It's like a house full of siblings: they fight amongst each other until a bully starts to pick on one of them, then they come together to resolve the threat, then back to fighting again... Ignore the technicals and political ramifications, the mixes thread was just for fun, to see what everyone's thoughts are... We can't accurately predict them anyways, because all the different writers would have a cow at the thought of their creation unifying with someone else's...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/04/04 09:14 AM
65.1.42.9

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Okay, sound point... Assume then that the Patrol, Asgard, Federation, and Star League did forge a tenuous alliance... Who would lead it, and who would put aside their inhibitions and join the Empire (who would no doubt be the largest faction to oppose this new alliance?)... Besides the clan, who we kinda agreed would be absorbed into the Imperial fold through a combination of Trials and promises of glory... I think that at least one of the Federation's nemesis species (Romulan, Klingon, Cardassian, Breen) would at least provide info and intel to the Empire, and the Robotek Masters, the Empire of Boskore from the Lensman galaxy (if any survive) and the Spice Guild or House Harkonnen from Dune would join up just for spite. That leaves a few minor players who would probably try to stay under the radar or contract themselves out to both sides (Ferengi, Predator, Jem Hadar, Babylon 5's Earth Dome)... and not a few races who would consider themselves above such nonsense (the Vorlon, the Vulcan, the Atreides)...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/04/04 09:20 AM
65.1.42.9

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Nicely done yet again... But the real world doesn't exist here, or I'm at least looking for best runners up... LOL... Yeah, ST and SW computers are far beyond transistors, what with Star Treks Quadritronic processors and SW having the ability to program emotion and spontaneous communication into their computers and droids... I think the Rebellion would sell those techs, but the Empire would naturally consider that a security breach. And if The Federation wouldn't sell, the Ferengi certainly would, and they have access to Federation tech... As for the Jem Hadar, I agree on the weak link... Even if a source of this Ketrocel White (spelling?) was found and controlled by the Dominion, it would be a constantly targeted world once the others found out about it's importance. I don't believe that the Jem Hadar are capable of learning much new things, they were in essence programmed that way to remain controllable and loyal, much like Stormtroopers, but without a free will. A switch to the cloak capable Predators or the Ravenous Zerg, if they could control the Overmind, would definitely be something for the Founders to ponder, but it would of course polarize the Terrans and Protoss into joining other factions, as well as root out the Aliens, who aren't quite civilized enough to care about alliances...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Spartan
08/04/04 09:20 AM
66.139.217.91

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I agree that we can't accurately predict them and that it's all just for fun. But I stand by my assertion that they don't join together when faced with a common foe. They specifically did not when the Dominion invaded.
Spartan

We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.

(I refer you to what Nightward said)
Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/04/04 09:25 AM
65.1.42.9

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I know that they didn't, and that in and of itself was disappointing, but I'm hoping some of the other factions have more common sense... That war could have made DS9 more exciting to watch but they nerfed it and did it all wrong... Less battling and more sneaking around and familiar intrigue... I guess it all hit the skids once papa Gene Died... I'm hoping that Mr. Lucas lives to a ripe old age if that's the case, or who knows what kind of crap will bear the SW name? Altough nobody really died, the same kinda happened to poor old Battletech... Amend- I guess FASA died... at least to BT fans...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
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