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Is ICM on its deathbed?

Is ICM a ghost town?

Yes
12
16%
Maybe
22
29%
No
43
56%
 
Total votes: 77

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fori
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Re: Is ICM on its deathbed?

#81

Post by fori » October 25th, 2019, 10:44 am

Yeah. The biggest irony is that some of the people who said no and maybe in the poll have probably abandoned the site in the intervening time.
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/icheckmovies.com is more damning now too. Every graph with a time axis looks grim.

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#82

Post by Harco » October 25th, 2019, 12:30 pm

I fear that the new design will already be outdated the day it is released. Or is it already?

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#83

Post by St. Gloede » October 25th, 2019, 12:45 pm

That is assessed rank, not user engagement, which is surprisingly static. 320k visits in April, 320k visits in September, some up and down in-between. https://www.similarweb.com/website/icheckmovies.com

Overall the site is sludging downwards, and lack of new users is definitely an issue.

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#84

Post by cinephage » October 25th, 2019, 12:48 pm

fori wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 10:44 am
Yeah. The biggest irony is that some of the people who said no and maybe in the poll have probably abandoned the site in the intervening time.
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/icheckmovies.com is more damning now too. Every graph with a time axis looks grim.
40 % of the website traffic comes from Colombia and India ?? That's unexpected...

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#85

Post by Onderhond » October 25th, 2019, 12:49 pm

Is it though? ICM isn't much of a community anyway. It's a rather individualistic service with its community aspects mostly living on this forum. I am mostly clueless of others that visit the site and I suppose that's the case for most people there?

But the UX of the site is definitely a problem and might be a hurdle for new people joining (and eventually finding their way here). The site is inexplicable slow (well, the server is) and the lack of a mobile design is unacceptable in 2019. The value of the site lies in its content, but that's about it.

Edit: also, don't put too much trust in Alexa stats. ICM no doubt has Google Analytics stats running, those are the ones that matter. Not some guesstimation that can be 1000% off.

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#86

Post by Coryn » October 25th, 2019, 12:51 pm

Why exactly is the user base dropping?

I've joined in 2018 and got really attached to ICM and the forum. I can't even imagine watching and choosing movies without them anymore.
I saved Latin, what did you ever do ?

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#87

Post by albajos » October 25th, 2019, 12:57 pm

Why? No use of social media? To grow we have to be on everything,

I would never have known about ICM hadn't it been for that I was part of another film community at the time (2009). Now that communtity is gone, so I would have no way of getting that information today.

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#88

Post by blueboybob » October 25th, 2019, 1:16 pm

I actually forget how i learned about icm. Maybe Reddit when they did the reddit 100 list?

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#89

Post by fori » October 25th, 2019, 1:23 pm

Coryn wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 12:51 pm
Why exactly is the user base dropping?
Here are some of the reasons:
:ICM: offputting and dated design (I like it, but new users won’t hang around and get used to it)
:ICM: community aspects are completely dead: most comments are from 5+ years ago, there are no places to have discussions, numerous dead accounts populate the site, etc
:ICM: other sites have superior functions, Letterboxd in particular could be argued to have every function of icheckmovies except the useless neighbour system, and the official lists.
:ICM: Letterboxd also has some externally noteworthy users. Sean Baker, Jonathan Rosenbaum, Roger Avary etc. additionally, a lot of competent and serious film critics have profiles there, as well as apparently some internet celebrities.
:ICM: much larger communities elsewhere make for a wealth of info through lists, reviews etc. The formerly amazing collection of user lists on ICM is becoming more and more dated.
:ICM: though the official lists are perhaps one of the (if not the) only positive (though they have their drawbacks) differentiators of the site, they are almost never updated.
:ICM: this won’t be an issue for everyone but: it’s too damn annoying to add films to IMDb. Sometime soon the TMDB database will be more comprehensive. This extends to the romanisation of all other alphabets in IMDb titles, the incorrect surname/given name order in the database for some names, and the lack of film summaries unique to icm.
:ICM: icheckmovies is also very slow and prone to glitches for such a lightweight site.
:ICM: perhaps most importantly, movies as a medium are declining in popularity.

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#90

Post by Coryn » October 25th, 2019, 2:07 pm

I cried reading that text
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#91

Post by blueboybob » October 25th, 2019, 2:11 pm

moving to letterboxd was too hard. It doesnt like all my ratings. It didn't even like when i split my ratings into csv of 1500 lines. Complains about entity too big.
So I gave up on letterboxd.

I cant export my trakt.tv. It is too big.

Basically everything is too extreme so I am stuck

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#92

Post by WalterNeff » October 25th, 2019, 2:26 pm

Adding the Pre-Code list will reinvigorate it.

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#93

Post by fori » October 25th, 2019, 2:56 pm

Coryn wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 2:07 pm
I cried reading that text
:hug: :hug: :hug:
Sucks, I know. I did feel like the check symbols made it that much more ruthless, but I felt the point needed emphasis.

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#94

Post by Pretentious Hipster » October 25th, 2019, 3:10 pm

Yea I feel like it will die. Zuma also mentioned how broken the search is which I agree with as well.

This forum is declining in popularity too. For the 500<400 list, the list of participants went like this starting from 2016: 145, 141, 127, 118. It's also clear that some of them are not active users. I mean hell, some users who weren't active came back years later just to post their old list. At least this website seems to have a close community, so a handful of users should keep it alive for a few more years.

Websites do die, it's just what happens with the internet. Only rare exceptions are the absolute monoliths like google and their owned websites. Tumblr is one of the best examples, and also shows why Alexa isn't the most accurate. In 2013 it was purchased for $1.1 billion. Wordpress then purchased it a few months ago for a measly $3 million.

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#95

Post by mjf314 » October 25th, 2019, 3:25 pm

fori wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 1:23 pm
:ICM: perhaps most importantly, movies as a medium are declining in popularity.
How do you know? Do you have evidence of this?

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#96

Post by albajos » October 25th, 2019, 3:39 pm

Well, cinema is. Amount of tickets sold in the US are on 1910-levels. But less AAA-titles are also released each year, so there are less movies with many. They just put all their money into one horse.

But film viewing as a whole? Seems people watch Netflix etc. And many other countries don't have the reduction in ticket sales the US have.

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#97

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 25th, 2019, 3:41 pm

Other than google and amazon there's no website older than 5 years old that will be bigger 5 years from now. The only exception would be some corporate site where they launch some new hit product, but I wouldn't consider that "the same site."

Edit: I should limit that to English primary sites because I have no sense of what's happening in other languages.

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#98

Post by mjf314 » October 25th, 2019, 4:25 pm

albajos wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 3:39 pm
Well, cinema is. Amount of tickets sold in the US are on 1910-levels. But less AAA-titles are also released each year, so there are less movies with many. They just put all their money into one horse.

But film viewing as a whole? Seems people watch Netflix etc. And many other countries don't have the reduction in ticket sales the US have.
Where are you checking the total number of ticket sales?

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#99

Post by Pretentious Hipster » October 25th, 2019, 4:33 pm

I don't think film as a medium is getting worse, just the way it's consumed. I believe that people are being more "lazy" with it and are just seeing stuff that easily available for them on netflix, with theatres for some cases as well. I feel like arthouse films are becoming less available now unless you can see it one of those types of ways. It might even be reaching the point where people stop caring about what is praised. I know it's stupid to depend on them, but award shows used to be treated with respect among quite a few people. Now the Oscars, Emmys, and VMAs were reaching all time lows.

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#100

Post by sol » October 25th, 2019, 4:53 pm

It's still not on its deathbed. Not with so many of us dedicated to the site, willing to help Marijn and the list mods out and having signed up to the site with paid accounts. I don't know if the website really needs to be constantly attracting new members to be viable. Marijn isn't running the site to profit or anything as far as I am aware.
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#101

Post by albajos » October 25th, 2019, 5:14 pm

mjf314 wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 4:25 pm

Where are you checking the total number of ticket sales?
https://ew.com/movies/2018/01/02/us-201 ... -25-years/
Entertainment Weekly

The ticket prizes have steadily gone up since 1995 as well. Much because of gimmicks - better chairs, better sound, 3D, IMAX, 4DX.
So the industry have noone to blame for this than themselves.

Personally I saw 160 movies in 1999. With prizes 3x that now (without gimmicks) I simply can't afford to keep that up.
Last edited by albajos on October 25th, 2019, 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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#102

Post by mjf314 » October 25th, 2019, 5:21 pm

albajos wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:14 pm
mjf314 wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 4:25 pm

Where are you checking the total number of ticket sales?
https://ew.com/movies/2018/01/02/us-201 ... -25-years/
Entertainment Weekly
"Data from the website’s calculations show 1.239 billion movie tickets were sold between Jan. 1 and Dec. 31 last year."

I clicked the link to Box Office Mojo, but I don't see where it says 1.239 billion tickets. I only see the amount of money.

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#103

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 25th, 2019, 5:25 pm

mjf314 wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:21 pm
albajos wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:14 pm
mjf314 wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 4:25 pm

Where are you checking the total number of ticket sales?
https://ew.com/movies/2018/01/02/us-201 ... -25-years/
Entertainment Weekly
"Data from the website’s calculations show 1.239 billion movie tickets were sold between Jan. 1 and Dec. 31 last year."

I clicked the link to Box Office Mojo, but I don't see where it says 1.239 billion tickets. I only see the amount of money.
The article is old and box office mojo just underwent a redesign. You used to be able to change grosses to # of ticket estimates.

Edit: Actually it was just there: https://web.archive.org/web/20191018000 ... om/yearly/

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#104

Post by Harco » October 25th, 2019, 5:40 pm

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/ww_ ... =bo_cso_ac

There are only 200 movies left on the all-time list? Does this mean the iCM list will have to be shortened as well? (No, please; I've been working on it). :unsure:

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#105

Post by joachimt » October 25th, 2019, 5:44 pm

Harco wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:40 pm
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/ww_ ... =bo_cso_ac

There are only 200 movies left on the all-time list? Does this mean the iCM list will have to be shortened as well? (No, please; I've been working on it). :unsure:
How is this related to this topic? Do you consider to leave iCM if it is shortened?
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#106

Post by Harco » October 25th, 2019, 5:48 pm

joachimt wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:44 pm
Harco wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:40 pm
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/ww_ ... =bo_cso_ac

There are only 200 movies left on the all-time list? Does this mean the iCM list will have to be shortened as well? (No, please; I've been working on it). :unsure:
How is this related to this topic? Do you consider to leave iCM if it is shortened?
Hahaha, I just might. But it was a reaction to Peaceful's post:
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:25 pm
The article is old and box office mojo just underwent a redesign.
...so I had a look at the new design and discovered the shortening of the all-time list.

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#107

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 25th, 2019, 5:56 pm

Harco wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:48 pm
joachimt wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:44 pm
Harco wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:40 pm
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/ww_ ... =bo_cso_ac

There are only 200 movies left on the all-time list? Does this mean the iCM list will have to be shortened as well? (No, please; I've been working on it). :unsure:
How is this related to this topic? Do you consider to leave iCM if it is shortened?
Hahaha, I just might. But it was a reaction to Peaceful's post:
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 5:25 pm
The article is old and box office mojo just underwent a redesign.
...so I had a look at the new design and discovered the shortening of the all-time list.
There's a topic for that discussion: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2341&start=200

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#108

Post by xianjiro » October 25th, 2019, 10:26 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
October 25th, 2019, 3:41 pm
Other than google and amazon there's no website older than 5 years old that will be bigger 5 years from now. The only exception would be some corporate site where they launch some new hit product, but I wouldn't consider that "the same site."

Edit: I should limit that to English primary sites because I have no sense of what's happening in other languages.
The move to native language sites is going to pull users away, especially if the American owned site isn't willing to play the censorship game. Not sure how many Chinese, Russian, Iranian, etc users were on a site like Facebook, but between local replacements and government censorship, there will be users drifting away. I've read some about this - localized social media - but not for a while now.

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#109

Post by Ebbywebby » October 25th, 2019, 11:11 pm

I wish the site had made some superficial cosmetic changes long ago, rather than shooting for the moon with a grand-scale revamp that's seemingly never going to leave beta. The site is so visually unattractive, and even just replacing the "Movies/Lists/People" header with something less graphically tacky (not to mention just SMALLER -- three simple words hardly require a two-inch high header) would be a huge improvement. Heck, it would be a big relief even to see the background color change to white from that sick, pale beige-green shade. The site's ugliness discourages use. And if this drags down the site's speed at all, why weren't the "Groups" eliminated long ago? The group with the most members has just eight posts EVER.

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#110

Post by fori » October 25th, 2019, 11:50 pm

Further on people moving to non-English sites, why are non-English posts banned? I’ve always felt that was both unfair and detrimental to the site.
Also the search function is another one. I always forget about it, because it’s easy for a long term user to find the stuff they’re looking for without much effort, but I’m sure it’s a massive turn-off to newcomers.
:rip: :ICM: :rip:
Not all of this is about new members, but with more and more users leaving, the community is shrinking. It would be a useful exercise to see how many profile that joined within the last 12 months have accumulated 1000 or more checks.

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#111

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » October 26th, 2019, 12:01 am

I don't really have an opinion on the non-English ban (because there weren't that many such posts) but it's for moderation purposes. If a bunch of people were having conversations in a language we can't read then there's no way to know if it's appropriate without manually google translating everything. Also given the nature of the comment section making posts others can't read is rude.

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#112

Post by xianjiro » October 26th, 2019, 1:39 am

Yeah, but allowing posts sexualizing an actress potraying a woman dying of AIDS is totally cool with moderators. So how can you honestly care if someone posts in another language and you're too lazy to cut and paste? If someone (preferably who knows the language) flags a post, deal with it then. Seriously, if someone wants to post a comment in Arabic on an Egyptian movie, who cares!

While I'm not saying I don't understand the moderation argument, it's weak. However, just as easily, one could say that it's because a certain class of non-English speakers want to lord their English skills over those who haven't mastered a foreign tongue: it's exclusionary and elitist even if that isn't the intent.

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#114

Post by blocho » October 26th, 2019, 2:10 am

I like the current design of the site, certainly more than the endlessly-in-beta revamp. Now the search function on the other hand ...

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#115

Post by fori » October 26th, 2019, 2:16 am

WalterNeff wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 1:43 am
圖書館在哪裡
What did you mean by this? “Where Is the library?”
????

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#116

Post by WalterNeff » October 26th, 2019, 2:47 am

fori wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 2:16 am
WalterNeff wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 1:43 am
圖書館在哪裡
What did you mean by this? “Where Is the library?”
????
When I learned French 50 years ago, we learned it by memorizing dialogues. The one everyone in my cohort remembers is "Ou est la bibliotheque" which we translated into many languages and used for humorous purposes. I was being humorous since we were talking about non-English languages, I chose the most non-English language I know.

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#117

Post by xianjiro » October 26th, 2019, 3:10 am

WalterNeff wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 1:43 am
圖書館在哪裡
这会有所帮助吗？位置圖

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#118

Post by xianjiro » October 26th, 2019, 3:17 am

WalterNeff wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 2:47 am
fori wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 2:16 am
WalterNeff wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 1:43 am
圖書館在哪裡
What did you mean by this? “Where Is the library?”
????
When I learned French 50 years ago, we learned it by memorizing dialogues. The one everyone in my cohort remembers is "Ou est la bibliotheque" which we translated into many languages and used for humorous purposes. I was being humorous since we were talking about non-English languages, I chose the most non-English language I know.
I, and maybe Walter too, often deflect with humour. However, our interchange illustrates the point about non-English posts. He asked a question in a language I don't speak and can't read and yet I have offered a response in the same language. Granted something might be lost in the translation and since someone neglected to state mikä kirjasto ຢູ່ປະເທດໃດ avelao izay tanàna iza, I'm sure I've offered an incorrect response. edit: But I find that much less objectifying and commodify-ing than "(.)(.)"
Last edited by xianjiro on October 26th, 2019, 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#119

Post by WalterNeff » October 26th, 2019, 3:19 am

xianjiro wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 3:10 am
WalterNeff wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 1:43 am
圖書館在哪裡
这会有所帮助吗？位置圖
谢谢

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#120

Post by xianjiro » October 26th, 2019, 3:22 am

WalterNeff wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 3:19 am
xianjiro wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 3:10 am
WalterNeff wrote:
October 26th, 2019, 1:43 am
圖書館在哪裡
这会有所帮助吗？位置圖
谢谢
先生，最高兴能为您提供帮助. :)

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