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Recruiting editors v5 (closed)

Well, only a fraction of editors remain from the last batch of editors I recruited (which was a while ago).

QC: Your job is to check the script for spelling, grammar, punctuation and syntax. Your attention to detail should be second to none. I don’t expect perfection, but I do expect near perfection.

Edit: Your job is to take a translated script and change the awkward/literal English into smooth, natural English. The level of your English should be akin to that of a native speaker, preferably better than my English. (English is my second language.)
Your attention to detail should also be very good.

After sending me an email (holo@doki.co), join #doki-recruits@irc.rizon.net. You will be given a QC test, and if you pass, an edit test.

In your email, state your timezone and any info you feel supports your application. Previous experience in fansubbing is not a requirement, but willingness to learn and a level of dedication is.

Edit: I’ve had enough emails, no more please.

73 comments to Recruiting editors v5 (closed)

  • I am interested. English is also my second language, but I am Canadian, so I am very fluent. I actually use it everyday at work.

    Before I apply, can you tell me more about the amount of work, the turn-over time, the frequency of meetings? I am a doctor so I have to know in advance so I can set up my schedule.

    Also, do I need to join IRC? It is still a big mystery for me. Are there alternative for communication?

    You have my e-mail. So you can communicate with me through that option. My time to respond is within a day.

    • Editing an episode will likely run you 2-5 hours and QC should take 1-2. You’ll speed up as you gain experience.

      On an airing show, you’ll need to show up at least one day of the week to do your thing; however things sometimes will go faster or slower than expected, so a flexible schedule is a plus. Most anime airs in the early afternoon in North American time.

      If you’re doing Blu-rays or something where speed is less of an issue, you’ll have more of an opportunity to do things at your own pace, within reasonable bounds.

      IRC is a must, but not difficult to figure out. Download Hexchat and connect to Rizon. As an interim measure, you can use webchat.

  • Fable

    Most native English folk spell terrible, so I wouldn’t worry too much. I often find my “foreign” friend’s asking for advice because they’re not doing well in “English lessons” and I’m often perplexed by that fact!

    • Fable

      There’s a grammar error in that last comment 😉

    • Rawr

      Personally I wouldn’t say most English speakers spell badly online, it’s more a case of some people not caring how they write, and some people who have had a poor education not knowing how to write well.

      That said, there are quite a few people on here that I know who live outside of the US/Canada/UK that spell better than a lot of English speakers I’ve seen lol

      • Calintz

        I can vouch for that. Often times I find myself, and many other people as well, not caring about how I write/type online. It’s not that we can’t do it, it’s just that if the time doesn’t call for it, we generally don’t care.

        I’d like to say that it isn’t a bad thing, but there are many occasions where it’s atrocious, and that is where I think that idea comes from.

  • Rawr

    Your english is excellent Holo, I think you’l have a hard time finding someone better than you lol

  • Meneldal

    Same pic again? I hope there would be a new one this time.

  • Well, this seems like something I could do… I can say my English is good enough(I guess this is were my language arts classes could pay off). I have the time mainly in the afternoons (I live in the East Coast so…6:00+ is fine). I’ll send the email in a bit!

  • Kurausukun

    I have a few questions about QC. 1. Would I need to know any Japanese or am I checking solely the English? 2. What’s the schedule like? I’m in school, so my schedule isn’t always flexible, though I actually think I would be free enough. 3. Would I be QCing one show, or multiple shows? 4. Communication? Will all meetings, etc. be over IRC (not a problem, I’m fine with IRC, just wondering)? How frequently?
    Thank you very much! (Also, none of this guarantees I will apply, I’m just working it out)

    • No, you don’t need to know any Japanese.
      Depending on which show you would be QCing, the schedule can be from highly flexible to very strict.
      How many shows you do would be up to you.
      IRC is our main means of communication.
      All of our meetings are held on IRC, you can get more info if you apply.

  • Blank Mage

    Hmm, on the one hand, I would certainly be interested in giving back to the subbing community, but on the other, I have no experience in subtitling and only basic understanding of Japanese, which I feel I would need to really compare the translation to the original. (Obviously if I was fluent I wouldn’t need subtitles, and also would be far too busy laughing hysterically from atop a mound of eroge.)

  • Azuciel

    I’m a writer, and I have experience in proofreading and editing. Pretty interested in joining (I actually wanted to join some ages ago, but, you know, school and lolis), but I have an attention span of a 5-year old with ADHD. Maybe I’ll send an e-mail if I’m still interested by this afternoon. 😀

  • Chaos_Aurelius

    i’m interested…………………
    but sorry doki, I cannot apply

    have been living in singapore for some time and I’m afraid I might inject singlish into doki if I were to apply

    …and the rule of “must be within campus for at least 3 hours per weekday” limits my availability

    again, sorry doki

  • rds

    It is PLAIN WRONG to use perfect localized English for subs.

    Because:

    1) screen characters do NOT speak perfect Japanese – so translating imperfect speech into perfect speech is an obvious translation mistake. (you are supposed to translate what they say, not “correct” it!)

    2) “incorrect” (but easily understandable) English gives a very important “foreign feel” to the watching experience.

    Also, subbing is not even “translation”, it’s interpreting (pls look up the difference in a dictionary yourself). Dubbing is translating.

    And there are rules to good interpreting, such as:
    1) minimum localization,
    2) understandable pieces of speech (names, foreign words, etc) are to be left “as is”, (yes! that means keeping name order and honorifics!)
    2) interpreting should be as direct/simple as possible. Not like CoalGuy’s/gg’s style to interpret “atsui!”(“its hot!”) as “I am dying!”. (I happen to remember this one from CoalGuy’s K-ON – immortal example of really bad subs)

    For further info on interpreting check out memoirs and books by UN interpreters – they are the top in the game.

    unless you think that translating for subs is all about showing off how smart and clever you are (“tankwondo”, my ass!),… then pls ignore all the above.

    • This post is so full of fail that I pity the 30 minutes it took you to write it.

    • altazure

      While I largely agree, you write in a way which makes me want to disagree with you. Who are you even arguing against? I don’t think anybody suggested using perfect localized English.

      You can’t simply say some ways of translating are always more correct than others. While I personally disagree with removing honorifics, I can see why some groups want to do that. If you’re interested in theoretical approaches to translation, you could start by getting yourself acquainted with the Skopos theory.

      There are other things in your writing I’d like to comment on too, but as you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, I’m not going to bother.

    • We don’t localise our subs, so why are you posting this here? Did you mean to post this on Commie but got the wrong website?

      • rds

        No, you don’t localize. (thanks God!) For me your subs are still the easiest to work on.

        But! I did post here because I have a feeling that during the last year you started drifting towards commie/gg style subbing.

        No, you don’t localize, but you started “improving”. Let me show what I mean:

        “Oba Nobuna… 01” @2min: he says “chotto matte!”, you translate “Stop right here!”.

        Now, that would be a decent choice for a dub (like what gg is doing), but he just said “Wait a minute!”. Yes, with his forceful voice his intended meaning would be as you translated, but… it is not what he said!

        And the viewer can hear his forceful voice herself! So there was no need to improve on what was actually said!
        ==========

        That’s what I started noticing in your subs for probably a year… I don’t keep count, but I know that nowadays I often catch shi… er, stuff, in your subs, AND it had not been the case before.

        Is this an intentional editorial, er, policy?

        I know, I know, the above is not an outrageous example, but I just grabbed the first doki file I saw and stopped at the first example I have noticed – to give quick answer.

        • Munchulax

          Well, Oda Nobuna’s script was originally translated by Crunchyroll, so that’s probably why that sentence is “improved”.

          On an unrelated note, I did like the decision to leave the word “hot” in “You can’t do that to a hot girl!” at 1:56 in Episode 1 instead of changing it to “pretty” like FFF and Shini-subs did because I think it fits his character more.

        • “Chotto matte” is literally closer to “wait a bit”.

          Your suggestion of “wait a minute” is a liberal edit, the very thing you are complaining about. I can only assume you have deduced this TL by seeing it TL’d that way in other shows.

          It’s not a matter of improving, it’s a matter of making it flow and fit the situation. “Wait a minute” will never fit every situation, so why should it be used thusly? Of course on the other hand a literal TL of every single line would make things read like utter shit.

          • rds

            “wait a minute” is exactly the right balance that Rokudaime (correctly) advocates.

            “wait a bit”, “wait a minute”, “one moment”, etc, are synonyms, the “stop right here” is not even a synonym, it is totally different phrase from what was said.

            Ixlone, you can argue with my general positions, but here you are defending the wrong side – just not to agree with that “bad rds”.

            Ah, Ixlone, you are such a tsun girl!

          • Someone is about to be killed and you say to the guy “wait a minute”? Not likely.

            Aa I said, it doesn’t fit every situation, and this is the perfect example of one it doesn’t fit.

            Also, “wait a bit” != “wait a minute”.

        • Rokudaime

          You seem to be one of those guys who thinks everything should always be translated 100% literally no matter what. That doesn’t really work well in reality dude. Over-literal subs are never the way to go when translating from Japanese to English, and the same goes for over-liberal ones. A good balance between liberal and literal is usually what works.

          • Rawr

            I agree. Literal translations from Japanese would be kinda awkward to read. I agree with Ixlone and everyone else who isn’t rds too 🙂

            Translators need to make stuff flow right.

          • rds

            Rokudaime,

            please enlighten me, with the quotes from my msg, where do I argue that “everything”, “always”, to be translated “100% literally” and! “no matter what”?

            I intentionally used “direct/simple” instead of “literal”!

            And when I write “minimum” and “as possible”, how the heck do you read “100%” and “no matter what”?!

          • Rokudaime

            rds, I know you didn’t directly say that everything has to be translated 100% literally all the time, so please calm down. I just said that from what you said, that’s the kind of guy you strike me as, since you advocate the use of “Wait a minute!” rather than “Stop right there!” in this particular example, just because the former is the more correct literal meaning. I agree with Ixlone that in this example, “Stop right there!” is more fitting to the situation and the context. Translating from Japanese to English is not black and white, you have to choose beteween being liberal, literal, or somewhere in between, depending on what fits the situation better in each case. It’s about making the sentences flow right, like Rawr mentioned. Finally, when I said “A good balance between liberal and literal is usually what works”, I didn’t mean that you should always choose the middle-ground translation of a word, term or sentence, I meant that you should choose whether to translate literally, liberally, or somewhere in between, in each individual case (each word, term, or sentence), depending on what best suits the situation.

          • rds

            If you know that I “didn’t directly say that everything has to be translated 100% literally all the time”,
            – why do you claim that I argue “that everything has to be translated 100% literally all the time”?

            is it because of “chotto matte”? FYI literal translation would be “a bit wait”. I suggested a VERY non-literal translation “wait a minute”.

            so by your logic, because I suggested non-literal translation for one particular example, you assume that I am for “everything has to be translated 100% literally all the time”?

            are you ok, my friend? does your head hurt? no?

          • Rokudaime

            Did you even read my message? -_- You shouldn’t have to ask a second time why I said that you strike me as a guy who advocates literal translations. I already answered that when you asked me the first time. Here, I’ll copy-paste it for you:

            “I just said that from what you said, that’s the kind of guy you strike me as, since you advocate the use of “Wait a minute!” rather than “Stop right there!” in this particular example, just because the former is the more correct literal meaning.”

            There’s the answer to your question. That’s why. “Wait a bit!”, “Wait a minute!” etc are all quite literal translations (“Wait a minute!” is less literal than “Wait a bit!” or the super-literal “a bit wait”, yes, but it’s still not by any means “VERY non-literal” like you claim. That’s just not true). “Stop right there!” on the other hand is a liberal one. You don’t like this translation, since you feel it is TOO liberal rather than literal, even though to most of us it is obvious that it is a more fitting translation in this case. THAT’S why I say you strike me as a guy who advocates literal translations over liberal ones. Comprende? And again, I didn’t claim that you argue anything, I said you strike me as a guy who thinks like that. There’s a difference you know. If you don’t understand that, I suggest you read up on the subtleties of the English language before you start talking about logic, question people’s intelligence, and twist people’s words (by saying I claim you advocate literal translations because you suggested a non-literal translation. That’s not true, I did not, and I just explained why. Your suggestion is not non-literal).

          • rds

            Rokudaime,

            I got it – your thinking processes are like artist’s – thinking by association, not by reason. So it’s no surprise that, no matter what I actually said you somehow got that association – and that’s it.

            Sorry I have even started arguing. I promise I won’t bother you again. Bye.

      • rds

        @rawr

        Your “flow” argument actually works against you!

        For a viewer who doesn’t understand what was said, both “wait a minute” and “stop right here” would work just fine,

        but those who understand – they would think “chotto matte! it’s not what he said!” – the flow would be interrupted.

        Shouldn’t subs “flow right” for the most possible % of viewers?

        • Or perhaps you have just seen too many anime where it’s TL’d as “wait a minute” and therefor assume that’s what it always has to mean. What’s next, 無理 always having to mean impossible, just cos that’s how people TL’d it a lot before? 勿論 always meaning you should start the sentence with “of course”, just because you’ve seen that the most? And what about はい? Should that always mean yes?

          Your reasoning would make subs a very boring place if you expected everything to be TL’d to the exact same thing in every single situation.

          • rds

            Ixlone,

            yes, “stop right here” does fit the situation better than “wait a minute”. But! He did say “chotto matte!”, not “tomare!”.

            The creators of this anime themselves chose “chotte matte!”, not “tomare!”. Do you think they don’t understand the situation the hero is in?

            The fundamental question here, that you should answer to yourself, is:

            Do subs (not dubs!)

            1) should translate what was said (while “keeping the flow”, “edit if awkwardly literal”, etc), OR,

            2) should replace what was said,/i> with what fits the situation best

            ?

            Myself, I firmly stand with (1). You?

          • rds

            SORRY! CORRECTION!

            Do subs (not dubs!)

            1) should translate what was said (while “keeping the flow”, “edit if awkwardly literal”, etc), OR,

            2) should replace what was said, with what fits the situation best if possible

            ?

          • altazure

            rds, those two options are not mutually exclusive. Translations should be accurate representations of not only what was said, but also what was meant, and what kind of a response was expected from the viewer. You surely understand that there is this thing cultural differences. Different cultures and languages express things differently. For example, the Japanese tend to say things in a more roundabout way than Westerners; conveying the actual meaning is not ‘improving’ the translation in any way. “Stop right there” is what was meant, even though more literally the words mean “wait a minute”, “wait a bit”. Of course, this example is something of a borderline case as the literal meaning isn’t really wrong either.

            This doesn’t mean that I think localizing is a good thing. I do think, however, that you’re arguing against the wrong group; Doki is among the least localized, most literal fansub groups out there.

          • rds

            altazure,

            you are of course right, the way I have formulated the options is… not properly correct. Things like cultural differences, language specifics, etc, that are exempt from translate-just-what-was-said rule are, like, a given in the translation business, I thought it would be obvious for people here, not worth mentioning.

            as for the scene at hand, do you really think it goes under “cultural difference”? Unlike “hai” (as correctly mentioned by Ixlone), “chotto matte” has proper translation and works the same way in most (all?) cultures.

            what does elevate the hero’s meek “wait…” to order “stop!..”? Answer: his behaving like being in a position of authority: powerful voice, gestures, body language. Are they different in, say, American culture? Wouldn’t a German understand that as well?

            if you are translating into a written text, you’d write something like “he jumped in front of the girl and shouted “Stop right here!”, and that would be a correct translation, because the reader cannot receive non-verbal information. Unlike the viewer!

            so, in this situation, what would prevent viewer from correctly understanding the scene, and thus requires additional help from translator? Myself, I don’t see anything Japanese exclusive in that scene.

            also, I think that by chosing “chotto matte” instead of “tomare!”, the authors wanted to underline that hero was trying to pull a bluff. He did behaved like a Big Boss, but couldn’t quite utter the bossy words.

          • I do think you’re making a mountain out of a molehill over one small phrase.

          • Rawr

            @Holo

            He’s trying to make a mountain bigger than Olympus Mons Lol

          • rds

            @Holo

            Did you actually read my answer to your question here?

            REPEAT: Read my reply to Holo. I had no intention to delve into this detailed discussion. My reason for posting here is not that “one small phrase”.

            REPEAT: (specifically for Rokudaime, ’cause he probably didn’t get the first two): switch off your dazzling Power of Assumption and just read my reply to Holo.

            ==========
            BTW: as for this discussion – after just one exchange of arguments all of you guys either shut up or resort to personal offenses. Pity.

          • Maybe because this place is made for commenting and not discussing…

          • Rokudaime

            @rds
            I find this last comment of yours (8:18 PM) quite funny considering you didn’t read my message properly either, or alternatively, you didn’t understand it. 😉 And what do you mean “after just one exchange of arguments all of you guys either shut up or resort to personal offenses.”. That’s a blatant lie lol. We’re still discussing with you, and the only one so far who’s resorted to any personal ad-hominem attcks is Ixlone, in his first reply to you (but not in any of his other replies). And in fact, YOU threw a personal offense at ME (“are you ok, my friend? does your head hurt? no?”), suggesting I’m stupid, even though I was discussing with you politely, and the reason appears to be that you didn’t read and/or understand my reply to you properly. Now, I suggest you read my new reply above, and this one, and see if you can wrap your head around them, and then, if you still want to keep arguing, feel free to do so. I’ll discuss with you for as long as you want, as long as there is anything left to discuss. If you don’t however, then I suggest you drop it, or at least apologise to me for being rude. I’m not your enemy here, just because I don’t share your oppinion.

    • Calintz

      If I’m watching a show and reading the subs requires me to stop and look back at what I just read multiple times, because it sounded odd in my head, then that’s bad subbing; doesn’t matter how much you’re keeping the translation accurate to the source material, reading a poorly flowed sub release makes the experience annoying.

      I agree partially that accurate translations are good, but if I have to read a line that a caveman would look at and say, “What the fuck did I just read?”, then you might as well be subbing for Commie or Hadena.

      My point is that the subbing community is there to provide shows with readable material that a normal person would “actually” say or be normally accustomed to. However they interpret it is their choice and not anyone else’s.

      • DTS

        I have to agree with rds. After 26 years dealing with professional translated subtitles I also think that fansubs are making unnecessary changes. When sentence can be translated literal (or almost) without sounding awkward, why make changes? Dropping words that are said and ad value, wrong grammar equivalent,… , and other litlle things get lost in translation. I just wonder why because in alot of occasions you can keep it and still sound very natural. Don’t get me wrong, much respect for all who translate Japanese, it aint easy, and make it understandable for others.

        • altazure

          I think the main reason is that whereas professional translators normally edit the translated text themselves, fansub editors don’t usually know enough Japanese to be able to make educated judgment calls.

    • Naoya

      Half the time in anime, characters speak “imperfect” Japanese…

      So if you are suggesting to keep the script as that, there won’t be a need for editors, imo.

      Plus, structure of “imperfect” Japanese hardly can be expressed properly in English.

      • rds

        Easy:

        any spoken language is “imperfect”, not just Japanese.

        so when translating “imperfect” spoken Japanese, use structure of “imperfect” spoken English.

        agree? (<=== like this) (pun!)

        • Naoya

          You obviously don’t know how Japanese work, lol.

          • rds

            Sigh… give me an example where the structure of an imperfect spoken Japanese phrase has a special meaning that needs to be translated.

            structure, not the fact that it’s broken/spoken/informal.

            with your knowledge of how Japanese works you surely would have no problem to…

  • Chocolatemilkgod

    I would’ve applied if not for the fact I was on a plane when this was put up. Oh well. Hope you found enough people to help you guys out!

  • Devlogger

    Damn, I missed out on this one, haha. I grade English school essays at all grade levels as a part-time job; much of the work includes proofreading, as one can imagine.

  • I approve of Thing hijack. New image is awesome.

  • Rawr

    I’m surprised he’s keeping this going to be honest, you’d think he’d get the hint when none of the staff or regulars agree with him. Sigh..

    We always get at least one person causing drama here a month lol

    • Rokudaime

      Don’t be so quick to always condemn those who argue and disagree with the majority Rawr. I’ve noticed you tend to assume a condescending attitude towards such people even when they remain mostly polite, like this guy (aside from his one jab at me). I don’t really like that side of you…Even if you’re always a nice guy otherwise. rds is after all allowed to have his own oppinion, even if we all disagree with him, and there’s nothing wrong with discussing. Although…there’s probably not much point in keeping it going for so long when everyone disagree’s, and it’s clear he’s not going to convince us. It’s kind of a waste of effort after all. That said, as much as I disagree with him, I see nothing wrong with what he’s doing as long as he remains polite. DTS seems to agree with him too, so he’s not the only one who thinks like that. I do think he’s making a mountain out of a molehill though, like Holo said.

      • altazure

        I don’t think DTS has agreed on anything else with rds than the fact that they’re hot happy with all subs. However, their problems seem to be different.

        DTS thinks that a lot is lost in translation, i.e. many nuances are left untranslated; Whereas rds thinks that unnecessary things are added, i.e. too much interpretation is used when translating. I wouldn’t say they’re agreeing, even if they think they are.

        • Rokudaime

          Maybe. I could just be interpreting him wrong, but reading his post again, I still think it sounds like he feels many translations are too liberal, and should be more literal.

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