Deleted Posts Pony Please June 23, 2015 3:36 PM   Subscribe

So, I've been striking out lately on getting my posts to stay up on the Blue. Not complaining, but it would be good to see the deletion reason. Sadly, I can't get the deleted post script to work on my (Safari) browser, or for that matter on Chrome. I really don't want to have to return to Firefox, which I hate only slightly less than IE. We have the automatic memail when a post goes up. Is it possible to get a nice pony that sends a memail with the deletion reason when the post goes down? Thanks much.
posted by bearwife to Feature Requests at 3:36 PM (78 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

In general we don't have the bandwidth to open a dialog about every single deletion, , but posts aren't comments and this might be worth talking about a little. Is this something people would find helpful?
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 3:39 PM on June 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Can't you view the deletion reason on the post itself?

I don't understand what you are asking for.
posted by davidstandaford at 3:45 PM on June 23, 2015 [5 favorites]


I think it would be cool and that it's a different category than the concern raised about deleting comments. But I do think it would prompt more people wanting to open a dialog, which adds more mod work.

Also, you can go here to track deleted posts with reasons. I've checked there in the past.
posted by SpacemanStix at 3:46 PM on June 23, 2015 [6 favorites]


You can go to the URL of the post (it will still work, like this one) and read the reason, and if the mods are particularly succinct, you can email them for more.
posted by rtha at 3:50 PM on June 23, 2015


I second this idea - would find it very convenient if I got the deletion notes sent to me straight from my Memail.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 4:04 PM on June 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Is this something people would find helpful?
Not me.

but it would be good to see the deletion reason
In "Recent activity," if a post is deleted, it will show under the post text on the left-hand side. You can follow the link in the post title to get back to a post, even if it has been deleted. The deletion reason is there.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:05 PM on June 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


In "Recent activity," if a post is deleted, it will show under the post text on the left-hand side. You can follow the link in the post title to get back to a post, even if it has been deleted. The deletion reason is there.

In her post, bearwife says, "We have the automatic memail when a post goes up." If a post is deleted, you can just follow that same link to see the deletion reason.

Or is the issue that posts are being deleted without the poster realizing, and they want a memail to alert them?
posted by davidstandaford at 4:09 PM on June 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


I've never had anything deleted. My posts go to a special farm where there's lots of room to run around and lots of other posts to play with and they're very happy but no we can't go visit them today because it's out in the country and that's very far away.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:23 PM on June 23, 2015 [115 favorites]


Metafilter Deleted Posts Blog

(This is not an official service of MeFi and sometimes it takes a while to get updated.)
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 4:24 PM on June 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


In general we don't have the bandwidth to open a dialog about every single deletion, , but posts aren't comments and this might be worth talking about a little. Is this something people would find helpful?

Yes!
posted by zarq at 4:27 PM on June 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Metafilter Deleted Posts Blog

(This is not an official service of MeFi and sometimes it takes a while to get updated.)


Just as further info, the MetaFilter Deleted Posts and Ask Metafilter Deleted Posts blogs were generously created by cj_. He explains them a bit here but basically they automatically scrape the front pages every 15 minutes looking for missing post IDs.
posted by lalex at 4:35 PM on June 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


Seems like the folks who want to argue about the deletion of their posts would be inclined to do so whether or not they got a MeMail letting them know the reason for the deletion.
posted by MoonOrb at 4:46 PM on June 23, 2015


It would be helpful. (Though I appreciate the other suggestions here. ) I promise not to argue but to prevent that from others for our frazzled mods . . . if this pony trotted, could the memail with the deletion reason be rigged to be unanswerable, i.e. from an unattended mailbox?
posted by bearwife at 5:42 PM on June 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


There's already a MeMail with the deletion reason in it, before the post is even deleted!

Don't see your post on the front page?
Afraid it's BALEETED?!
Simply navigate to your MeMail and click on the recent automatic MeMail from cortex. It's the one where he notified you your post was live on the front page.
Now, click the link in the MeMail to view your post AND the deletion reason!
posted by carsonb at 5:46 PM on June 23, 2015 [6 favorites]


Seems like the folks who want to argue about the deletion of their posts would be inclined to do so whether or not they got a MeMail letting them know the reason for the deletion.

Speaking from long experience as a professional moderator on another site, this isn't really true. Some people will argue regardless, but a great many more will argue if they have an email to respond to than do if they have to notice their post is deleted and then click a button to find a contact form or get an email address to write to. It's just so much easier to fight back when you're looking at an email and it has a handy 'reply' button.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:36 PM on June 23, 2015 [4 favorites]


Subject: this is just to say

I have deleted
the post
which was on
the front page

and which
you were probably
hoping
would stay up

forgive me
it was unworthy
so thin
and so editorial
posted by uosuaq at 7:12 PM on June 23, 2015 [51 favorites]


This would not be useful to me. I prefer to experience the frisson of shame when I notice my post is gone, followed by the weepy, self-pitying trek to my Recent Activity page where I can take a shuddering breath and click on the post's link to learn the reason for its demise.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:36 PM on June 23, 2015 [18 favorites]


This would not be useful to me. I prefer to experience the frisson of shame when I notice my post is gone, followed by the weepy, self-pitying trek to my Recent Activity page where I can take a shuddering breath and click on the post's link to learn the reason for its demise.

Icing on the shame cake is if it got a favorable number of favorites while it was up, and then it's heaping red coals of shame upon shame as the favorites are taken back again, like nobody ever really liked it at all.

All those… moments… will be lost in time, like tears… in… rain.
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:23 PM on June 23, 2015 [10 favorites]


I think this is a fine idea for to help people who might be new with the site..
posted by boo_radley at 8:42 PM on June 23, 2015 [3 favorites]


Meh. Sink or swim.

In your tears.
posted by notyou at 8:49 PM on June 23, 2015 [4 favorites]


Anti
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:28 PM on June 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


You should be frantically refreshing your post at any rate.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:02 PM on June 23, 2015 [23 favorites]


I am of no fixed opinion in regards to this mehter.
posted by y2karl at 10:03 PM on June 23, 2015


Er - I still don't entirely understand the difficulty. Why would anyone switch browsers just to avoid having to click on the posting memail and then click on the link in it? But I guess if this is something people want, that's great. Still, people should know that the "deleted posts" script is not the only way to look at a particular deleted post - it's not even a very good one. The best one is to just go to the URL of the deleted post, either through Recent Activity or through the memail you received when the post went up. Hope that helps people, anyway.
posted by koeselitz at 10:59 PM on June 23, 2015


You should be frantically refreshing your post at any rate.

gold
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 12:07 AM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


In thar hills.
posted by clavdivs at 12:41 AM on June 24, 2015


You should be frantically refreshing your post at any rate.

I wouldn't say any rate. I'd recommend a moderate one.
posted by ODiV at 1:16 AM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


If you care enough about a topic to post, how can you resist paying attention to the discussion that (hopefully) arises?
posted by wenestvedt at 3:33 AM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


All those… moments… will be lost in time, like tears… in… rain.

Related pony: please add dying replicant or other appropriate sad GIF to all future deletion reasons.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:43 AM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Pony: Please state all deletion reasons in "This Is Just To Say" format.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:34 AM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


....please state all other deletion reasons in "Don't take this personally, but" format.
posted by Namlit at 7:03 AM on June 24, 2015


That was a really bad deletion! Why such micromanaging? There may have been several Scott Walker posts, but that one looked thoughtful with interesting links.
posted by yarly at 7:32 AM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


We have the automatic memail when a post goes up.

That MeMail contains a link to the post where is where the deletion reason is. Is what you are asking for notification of the deletion? Because otherwise you still have access to the deletion reason with the tools you have, no browser changing necessary.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 8:00 AM on June 24, 2015


If you care enough about a topic to post, how can you resist paying attention to the discussion that (hopefully) arises?

Because I care about the topic is exactly why I can't bear to read the conversation that follows.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:05 AM on June 24, 2015 [9 favorites]


Because I care about the topic is exactly why I can't bear to read the conversation that follows.

I have to give it at least an hour or two to give a chance for the comments to have some semblance of balance, or at least have the possible front-end junk comments pruned a bit. It also gives me time to disconnect from it as if I "own" the post and can engage more now as an occasional participant rather than the post's defender.
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:35 AM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I realized that I don't get a MeMail notification because I opted out of automatic notifications awhile ago (on the settings page), and forgot that was even a setting. Without the notification link, it really is tricky to find the original post without the script or knowledge of the deleted posts website.
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:41 AM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


True, but that's like putting pony-proof moats around your barn and then complaining you have no ponies. A new automatic notice wouldn't help any.
posted by gingerbeer at 9:00 AM on June 24, 2015 [10 favorites]


True, but that's like putting pony-proof moats around your barn and then complaining you have no ponies. A new automatic notice wouldn't help any.

Yes, just throwing that out there in case anyone else would like to receive initial notifications but didn't know it was possible. It may be an easier solution to opt back in than other workarounds.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:18 AM on June 24, 2015


In the event that you are not receiving memail notifications about each of your posts, you can turn those back on by unchecking this box.
posted by davidstandaford at 10:32 AM on June 24, 2015


I've got really middling feelings about the idea, personally. Like, it's not an impractical non-starter the way mefimails for comment deletions would be, I'm just also not sure how much of a win it would be on the balance.

I think this is a fine idea for to help people who might be new with the site.

That's the most obvious pro-pony argument for me, yeah. But it's tricky; new users are also sort of a crapshoot here in a couple ways:

1. The people I feel like we most frequently hear from who are confused about the mere fact of a deletion (think they failed to post, or can't find the post, or think something else happened) are new folks who apparently aren't aware they can check their mefimail to find their post. So sending them another mefimail may be less helpful specifically in the case where we'd hope it would help most.

2. While we certainly get grumpy mail from established users sometimes, newer folks tend to stand a good chance of being the most grrr-arg-nazi-censorship off the wall about a deletion because they're the least familiar with site culture. Which isn't a reason to not let them contact us, but it's a little bit like deciding that what the office could use is a new toilet that backed up more often.

So I dunno. Like I said, middling feelings about it. As much as part of me is very in favor of as much information as possible as often as possible, etc, I think there are some sort of automatic mitigating benefits of having a little bit of friction for some of these things. Where to strike that balance is something I don't think I'll ever formally make my mind up about.

if this pony trotted, could the memail with the deletion reason be rigged to be unanswerable, i.e. from an unattended mailbox?

I don't think that'd be a good plan, no; as a fix for the problem of inviting responses gets even more problematic because we can't really take the approach of saying "you need to know we did this, but you're also not supposed to talk to us about it" or whatever, which is it what it feels like that would imply.

We might revisit the way auto-generated mefimails work in general to be more of a direct pointer to the contact form rather than "from" me (and previously Matt), since people mefimailing me when I'm off shift gets them less prompt response than going to the constantly-staffed contact form, but that's it's own whole thing really.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:15 AM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Could you add more explicit language in the auto-generated email that goes out when the post goes up, letting people know they can continue to use that link even if the post is deleted?

Right now it looks like it says:
Your post has been added to MetaFilter. Here are the details:

[Post Title]
[link]

Please contact us with any problems:

http://www.metafilter.com/contact/

Tired of these? You can opt-out of MeFi Mail reminders in your site preferences.
Maybe:
Your post has been added to MetaFilter. Please save this email in case of any future questions about your post. Here are the details:

[Post Title]
[link]

You can use that link to access your post even in the case of deletion.

Please contact us with any problems:

http://www.metafilter.com/contact/

Tired of these? You can opt-out of MeFi Mail reminders in your site preferences.
Too much? It does seem weird to assume that people will know they're supposed to use the information in this email in case their post is deleted, but that's not stated anywhere in the email.
posted by jaguar at 11:43 AM on June 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


No, that seems like a decent idea, jaguar. Might help in some of those confused-but-still-looking cases, and wouldn't be a big change to the content.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:44 AM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


That would be a fine pony by me. After this thread, I now am clear that I can go back to the link to my post to see the deletion reason (and I'm no newbie here, just didn't know that because until relatively recently I had a working greasemonkey script), but it would be great to make it clear in the initial memail.
posted by bearwife at 11:52 AM on June 24, 2015


...as the favorites are taken back again, like nobody ever really liked it at all

I was looking at that Scot Twalker post when the red flag of deletion appeared, and it had favorites that suddenly weren't there. I looked for a deletion reason, and there was not one. Maybe it gets added later. Miffed, I favorited the post, and it seemed to take. I wonder if it made it to bearwife's favorite count.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:04 PM on June 24, 2015


The deletion reason doesn't get loaded dynamically when that red deletion box goes up; that's meant more for the "hey, just in case you're writing something long" heads up is all. Refresh the page and the deletion reason will be there along with the comment box being gone.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:06 PM on June 24, 2015


Ahem, I feel sheepish asking this, but out of curiosity for a newish user, why is the word "pony" all over this thread?
posted by teponaztli at 1:07 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Long site tradition, where "pony" is shorthand for "pony request" which is itself slang for "feature/tweak request". Once upon a time, someone in metatalk asked for something, and added that they'd also like a pony, and, well, it stuck.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:10 PM on June 24, 2015


Ahh. Heh, I like how little things like that can end up sticking forever. Thanks!
posted by teponaztli at 1:12 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Seems to be it would be better to just have the activity page for a user still show the posts that are deleted, perhaps with a subtle indicator tag/color, for the logged-in user but not anons or other users. So if y'all look at http://www.metafilter.com/activity/23322/posts/mefi/ you don't see the deleted ones but I would.

That removes the naive user penalty of requiring you to keep/accept mefi mail but avoids the bull-goading of an email pointing out that the deletion happens.

It seems more fair to me; making finding the still-active url again after a deletion dependent on knowing about the existing tools/keeping old emails always felt a little borderline taunting IMNSHO.
posted by phearlez at 2:28 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


pony

And sometimes, we can ride an idea around in circles for a long time.
posted by SpacemanStix at 2:30 PM on June 24, 2015 [6 favorites]


Lot's more little things that stuck around explained at the MeFi Wiki.
posted by notyou at 2:55 PM on June 24, 2015


Several of those seem to have come unstuck over the months and years, however.
posted by notyou at 2:57 PM on June 24, 2015


Seems to be it would be better to just have the activity page for a user still show the posts that are deleted, perhaps with a subtle indicator tag/color, for the logged-in user but not anons or other users. So if y'all look at http://www.metafilter.com/activity/23322/posts/mefi/ you don't see the deleted ones but I would.

Oh, I like that. I had thought of suggesting that deleted posts still appear on the poster's profile page, but I worried people would be embarrassed to have a list of deleted posts on their page. I hadn't thought of hiding them from everyone but the poster.
posted by jaguar at 3:02 PM on June 24, 2015


I'm pretty sure that usage of "pony" traces back to this comic strip.
posted by Wolfdog at 3:05 PM on June 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


I wonder if it made it to bearwife's favorite count.

Nope, any favorites on that post are not appearing in my favorite count.

Thanks for the kind words here from the people who liked the post.
posted by bearwife at 4:03 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also, "pony" looks to be an ongoing usage here on Metafilter. I always just assumed it was because people were relating it to the eternal child's wish for a pony, please.
posted by bearwife at 4:05 PM on June 24, 2015


Nope, any favorites on that post are not appearing in my favorite count.

That doesn't really seem fair, somehow. A post you made had favorites when it was deleted. Seems like they should show up in your tally.

I can understand why favorites on deleted comments don't show up in the count -- they're no longer accessible. But posts remain.
posted by zarq at 4:55 PM on June 24, 2015


Because the important thing is your tally.
posted by Wolfdog at 5:26 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


SCOREBOARD
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:11 PM on June 24, 2015


Ahh. Heh, I like how little things like that can end up sticking forever. Thanks!
posted by teponaztli at 3:12 PM on June 24 [+] Favorite removed! [!]


I just want to point out this worthwhile comment as a data point in the eternal "inside jokes aren't funny and they alienate new MeFites" argument.

On the contrary, it's those who aren't daily visitors who most appreciate being able to feel part of the in-clique just by writing "SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE HOPE ME" in their AskMe posts.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 7:15 PM on June 24, 2015


If you care enough about a topic to post, how can you resist paying attention to the discussion that (hopefully) arises?

I usually get too freaked out after I post to be able to work up the courage to read the comments for a day or so. That might explain why I've done so few posts over the last eleven years.
posted by octothorpe at 8:11 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I think "pony" may also have been influenced by a meme going around the left-leaning blogosphere (remember the blogosphere?) in early 2004. Originally by Belle Waring - who was inspired by the Calvin & Hobbes strip - but I remember Brad DeLong and such folks using it a lot afterwards.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:03 PM on June 24, 2015


I had not seen either of those instances but it's been a familiar expression for me for 15 years at least. It's a common shorthand for listing your wishes while realising that you may be asking for the impossible. It can also be used to tell someone else, in a slightly snarky way, that what they're wishing for is not going to happen.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:47 PM on June 24, 2015


teponaztli, you might also find the MeFi Wiki useful - see especially the in-jokes page.
posted by Pink Frost at 12:05 AM on June 25, 2015


I think "pony" may also have been influenced by a meme going around the left-leaning blogosphere (remember the blogosphere?) in early 2004.

It would have been well-established on the site before that; this post is an early example from September of 2001, for example.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:08 AM on June 25, 2015


Because the important thing is your tally.

People here tend to be really, really possessive about their favorites.
posted by zarq at 6:39 AM on June 25, 2015


Right, right, not saying Belle was the *source* of the meme on the site, just that I felt that it seemed to be all over the place at the time and that maybe that it resulted in an increase. May just have been confirmation bias.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:43 AM on June 25, 2015


Oh sure, and I don't mean to be, like, territorial. More just that in this case I think the timeline on the site usage becoming common precedes that by a long enough span that it's unlikely to have been a major catalyzing factor.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:42 AM on June 25, 2015


People here tend to be really, really possessive about their favorites.

Interesting. I find that people tend to be really, really obsessive about their favorites.
posted by terrapin at 8:05 AM on June 25, 2015


True!
posted by zarq at 8:07 AM on June 25, 2015


I knew the "sleeping favorites bear" was going to get poked again out of hybernation.

Some people like favorites for personal-use reasons, some people like them for broader social reasons, some people dislike like them for personal-tendency reasons, some people dislike like them because of how they see other people using them, some people turn off the number to help alleviate some of the concern about the number, some people turn them off entirely, some people like the emergent social uses that weren't originally intended when they were created (like using them as a non- verbal high-five or a nod from the other side of the room).

My mantra: Depending on where you land on the favorites spectrum, I still like you and consider you a worthy contributor to the site. I will not discriminate based on broadly personal, social, altruistic or even slightly self-centered uses of favorites. It's a big umbrella, and there's always room for our little favorite buddies to join us in many shapes, sizes, and flavors. If you take good care of them, they may some day hatch into a little dinosaur that will be your best friend.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:18 AM on June 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


soon you won't even have to know how to use the internet to use the internet.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:30 AM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


I use favorites as bookmarks, and I only torrent Linux distros.
posted by chavenet at 4:12 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


AskMetafilter Deleted Posts blog. I did not know this existed.
posted by scalefree at 9:04 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


You were truly stuck in a dark corner of Plato's Cave for sure.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:38 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


>I will not discriminate based on broadly personal, social, altruistic or even slightly self-centered uses of favorites.

What about very self-centered uses of favorites?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:31 PM on June 25, 2015


People here tend to be really, really possessive about their favorites.

So, how many of yours have you given away?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:40 AM on June 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


So, how many of yours have you given away?

I think people here put more value on them than they deserve, and I try very hard to ignore my own "received" numbers, because I don't think it's a healthy way for me to interact with the site.

That said, I also tend to go on quiet favoriting sprees and love to give favorites for creative or interesting fpp's.
posted by zarq at 8:01 AM on June 29, 2015 [2 favorites]


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