Hate Remarks Towards Lucas Concerns

Discussion in 'Communications' started by bjbrickm, Nov 5, 2002.

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  1. bjbrickm Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2002
    star 3
    First, I hope I have the right forum to address this issue.

    One thing that has deeply concerned me lately is why so much hate towards Lucas has been tolerated on these boards.

    I understand everybody is entitled to their opinion. I understand free speech. But I also understand the rules of conduct on these boards. But not only am I seeing a select few users post hate remarks about Lucas, but they do it multiple times. At least once a week for some of them.

    How can this be tolerated? You have to draw the line somewhere. The very first sentence in the Rules of Conduct states:

    "User agrees not to post material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, misleading, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, that otherwise violates any law, or that encourages conduct constituting a criminal offense."

    So what about Lucas? Is it ok to regularly post abusive and defamatory material about Lucas? He's the guy who gave us Star Wars in the first place. It is upsetting that this would be allowed to continue on these great boards.

    A disgruntled remark here and there is one thing. But constant and continual abusive and defamatory remarks towards Lucas should not be tolerated.


    What is being done about this currently?
  2. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    Could you show me some examples of these incidents?

    And it really depends on the case... I really don't understand why someone who isn't a Lucas fan is here in the first place (after all, he did create the Star Wars saga ;)). Though, that's just my own opinion.

    Thanks. :)
  3. Left My Heart In Dagobah Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2000
    star 3
    I don't spend enough time at the JC to give any fresh examples. But I have read some nasty things about GL (his daughters too). BTW, I joined the JC because of a thread where people were ripping him apart (because of TPM) instead of giving any kind of intelligent criticism. I had to fight back. :)

    Good luck. :)
  4. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    I don't spend enough time at the JC to give any fresh examples.

    I?m afraid my ability to speak for the prequel forums is rather limited, as it?s been a while since I?ve spent any great amount of time there. I?ll admit that I?m not very in touch with them directly anymore. However, having said that, I don?t think that I?ve heard about any great problems in the forums in that respect recently.

    From your statement that I?ve snipped, it appears to me that you?re basing your judgment upon how things were. Things may still be like that ? as I said, I?m no regular in AOTC or 3SA anymore myself ? but maybe the problem has been alleviated to some degree already? If you find examples, I think that we?re more than willing to help, but without clear examples of the problem it?s hard to deal with it.
  5. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    To badly quote a sig that I've seen around:

    "Sometimes I think that people think Star Wars would have been great if it wasn't for that hack Lucas."

    (I think it's Pozzi's sig, though I'll have to check.)

    IMO, flaming of anyone, on the boards or off, shouldn't be allowed. If you have a personal problem with someone, state your reasons for not liking them or their work. Don't just go around saying "LUCAS IS A HACK WHO CAN'T MAKE MOVIES". If you don't like his work, bugger off (in the nicest possible way).
  6. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    What Gandy said ;)

    If a thread is seriously against the TOS, please let someone know. I've seen some pretty rude things in AotC over the past week or so, but nothing has caugt my eye that was to the point of needing any sort of intervention. Of course, I may have overlooked something. :)

    Hawk:
    To regard this statement -- IMO, flaming of anyone, on the boards or off, shouldn't be allowed, I assume you mean if someone is flamed here, if they are a member or not. And if so, I whole heartedly agree -- flaming ANYONE on the JC, no matter who they are is not allowed.
  7. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    Well, yeah. I have a nasty habit of speaking crappy English. :p

    But yes, that's what I meant. Flame offline as much as you want, but don't flame anyone here, regardless of whether the target is a member, Lucas, or the President of the United States.




    ...Well, maybe we can make an exception for him. :p
  8. bjbrickm Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2002
    star 3
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9388386&page=4] slandering the present Lucas calling him fat and bemused[/link]

    Binary Sunset's post on page 4

    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8819865&start=9393581&search=idiot] calling Lucas an idiot[/link]

    NinthSith's post page 3

    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9247754&start=9248068&search=idiot] calling Rick McCallum and idiot as entire body of post[/link] -- Episode III Spoilers

    Neuromancer's post on page 1

    I'll post more as I find them and as they occur.
  9. eclipseSD Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    What about the President? He is flamed almost daily here. Every other topic on US politics somehow involves the phrase "George W Bush is an idiot".

    If I called another user a redneck idiot who can't read or something, wouldn't that be flaming?
  10. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    brick -- The one topic in the AotC forum was locked already. The one topic in Episode III was looked at by a moderator and had a moderator presence to make sure it didn't go out of hand. And I couldn't find the part you were talking about in the TPM thread -- how many posts per page do you have set?

    eclipse -- Unless someone stated themself that they were a "redneck idiot who can't read", I would take that as flaming someone.
  11. FateNaberrie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2000
    star 6
    From your statement that I?ve snipped, it appears to me that you?re basing your judgment upon how things were. ... If you find examples, I think that we?re more than willing to help, but without clear examples of the problem it?s hard to deal with it.


    Gandolf, darling, do you realize that two different people posted the first and third posts?
  12. bjbrickm Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2002
    star 3
    Looks like 25 posts per page.
  13. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    Alrighty. I've got mine set to 50. I'm going to check it out right now, brick :)

    Edit: I checked out his post, but it wasn't flaming, though it was close. And Quixotic seemed to have a grasp of that thread, incase anything were to go wrong. :)
  14. son_of_the_tear Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    I agree. I see a good deal of vicious or just plain mean attacks on Lucas. And I don't understand why.

    If not for him, we would not have SW or American Graffiti or THX 1138 or Indiana Jones. Mainly SW, the reason why we are all here. And no... let us not mention Howard The Duck ;)

    Those comments are uncalled for and should be kept to themselves. You don;t have to agree with al his choices. No one is asking that. But it is one thng to disagree with his choices and to attack the man.

    And on that note, am I the only one tired of seeing people who hate AOTC pop in in threads that have nothing to do with what one disliked about the film and start attacking?

    I mean, there will be a thread on someone's favorite scene in AOTC, and a basher comes in and places a small compliment while filling the rest of their post with a bash.

    Hell, I've seen a thread about someone gushing about a cool design or something they loved about the film or just asking a question or testing out a theory and a basher will come in.

    I amm all for varied opinions. But it is one thing to go into a thread about ones dislikes about the film and share them their. But what the hell do they need to be in a thread that is not about bashing in the first place? After all, this forum is for the most part, and that is fine, the celebration of SW. But their are a few posters, like Tokyo, which just turn an unbeat thread into a downer. I swear, it's making me want to leave these forums. I get more positive vibes from my Howard The Duck action figure.
  15. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 9
    I must say that I've noticed those things as well in my diminishing visits to the AOTC forum.

    There seem to be at least a few people on crusades to let everyone know just how terrible AOTC (and usually TPM as well, but not always) is/was.

    Maybe it's changed a bit since I used to go in their regularly. I just know what I used to see a lot of.
  16. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    I don't think it's against the rules to flame someone who doesn't post here.
  17. eclipseSD Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    George W Bush has never called himself a redneck idiot who cannot read; therefore, anyone who calls him that is flaming him. A flame is against the TOS, isn't it?
  18. bjbrickm Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2002
    star 3
    If that's the case Saint_of_Killers then the Rules of Conduct should be altered to reflect that, because right now, they don't make that clarification.
  19. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    cbjedi -- Good point made there :)

    Some cases may be more extreme and those are looked upon, but in the term of flaming, I was more less thinking of things that would just be innapropriate to say, regardless of the flaming. :)
  20. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    Of course you're allowed to dislike a person or their work. I'm no big fan of Creed either. ;) But that doesn't mean you should go around calling people hacks and no-hopers without giving some basis for it. I agree, judgement should be used in most cases. Following policy to the letter doesn't seem to end well around here.
  21. Lurking_Around Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    If they say something like "I'm gonna follow Lucas home, then kill him because he raped my childhood" then hey, time to call the FBI or Interpol [face_laugh] But the normal criticism of Lucas should continue, within the rules of course (so no "Eminem language" allowed). But to disallow any rants towards Lucas....I can't agree with that. What next, no one can say bad things about Zahn? No one can say bad things about Hayden? No one can say bad things about McCallum? No one can say bad things at all???

    Some fans come here to discuss, not to worship. Unless there's conclusive prove that Lucas is God almighty himself, why should he be immune from cirticism? Heck, last time I check even good ol God is subject to criticism.

    [face_plain]

    EDIT: I've read Binary's post in that thread. It'a rant, yes, but it isn't "hateful". Certainly tame compared to some others I've read (and most certainly tame compared to the sort of flaming Binary has had to endure just because he dares to voice his honest opinion [face_plain])
  22. Malthus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    Even as a notable critic of Lucas' more recent work (SEs, TPM, AotC), I think that people should watch what they say in regard to Lucas. I, too, find it disturbing when folks tear him apart with vicious comments.

    I think some of the comments come from well-meaning members who lack the literary maturity to convey their point without coming across as hateful. In other cases, , fans are so incredibly disappointed with the recent work that they occasionally "toe the line" to make their point.

    Regardless, I don't see how anyone would come here because they hate Star Wars, so for me it's logical and reasonable to assume that even the most critical member here does, in fact, like something about Star Wars (usually the originals) and feels alienated about some of the most recently made things. Based on that, it strikes me that they are quite human after all, and deserve more than sweeping generalizations about what they hate and don't hate.
  23. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I once went into a tirade in the basher sanctuary about the epidemic of childhood obesity and adult obesity in the U.S. - using an example of Lucas and his children and their obesity from a tv interview he did in his home.

    I have to say the bashers were pretty unanimous in condemning me for making an issue of Lucas's appearance and the appearance of his children.

    Anyway, my point is that most of the bashers (obviously with the exception of me) are sensitive about what kind of personal comments are not appropriate.

    But that said, Lucas's business empire, his writing ability, his directoral skills, etc., are all fair game for critical comments as far as I'm concerned.
  24. Jedi knight Pozzi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    HawkNC, That's a pretty bad quote. ;)

    It was closer to, `From what I hear the fanboys say, SW could have been great it it hadn't been for that hack Lucas.'

    It wasn't aimed at lucas, but at the idiot fanboys. Possibly (mostly?) bashers too. First the prequels, then I visted the CT forum. Bashing the S.E.
    I felt it wasn't entirely warrented, at least the way the complaints were put across.
  25. LittleJedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    I just worry about the people who bash GL like there's no tomorrow and then call themselves a SW fan.. err... IMHO, that's skewed logic. :p If you're a SW fan then you're a fan of his work and shouldn't bash him every chance you get.

    I don't have a problem with people disliking the movies, or actors, or characters (alright, I might get into a heated debate if Obi was being attacked but let's not go there ;))... but if someone makes nothing but hateful posts, maybe someone should suggest to them that they reassess their motivation for being here in the first place.

    LittleJedi
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