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#rC3 - Public service, public value

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    Wikipaka preroll music
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    Bernd: Imagine a world where the sum of
    all knowledge is accessible for anyone.
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    Knowledge is being presented in so many
    different ways, some of it is text, and
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    you can easily access and skim through it,
    some of it you have to see and some of it
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    you have to touch and experience. We're
    having this remote experience today. Right
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    now, I'd love to be in Leipzig with you,
    work together with you. But we can't
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    because times are crazy and the digital
    world at least makes it possible to gain
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    knowledge in a different way. And of
    course, we at Wikimedia Deutschland, we
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    see that and we try to provide good
    content for everyone. We try to help the
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    community of the wiki-sphere, of the
    wikiversum, like in the Wikidata community
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    and the Wikipedia community or Wikimedia
    Commons and so many more projects, to
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    access great sources to make it work in
    different contexts. To be able to remix
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    knowledge, to put it to good use and to
    reach an audience worldwide. It's been 20
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    years now and Wikipedia has started
    without much photos, and there is even a
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    debate going on whether photos and images
    are a good for the Wikipedia because text
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    you can easily edit and anyone can do it.
    But photos and videos, there's a whole
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    different approach and there's a whole
    more skills to or other sets of skills to
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    be able to access and to edit it. And that
    makes it harder to renew stuff and to
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    adapt it. But also to create it and the
    communities and the volunteers in the
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    wikisphere, they are sometimes having a
    hard time to get good CGIs, for example,
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    or to get good graphics to make those, to
    make beautiful articles and to make good
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    shows. They are not always available. It
    costs money. The studio, the equipment and
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    the graphics they are producing. And
    there's already a lot of money spent on
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    producing that kind of content, and we
    want to bring that to good use in
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    Wikipedia and in the other spheres. We
    have been reaching out or we have been
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    approached by the community to reach out
    to the public broadcasters. And that's
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    what we did. And this is our journey. And
    I want to go on this together with you, a
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    little bit of recap and then a way of you
    to help us with that mission and to also
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    reach out and bring good content into the
    public sphere to really be able to help
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    others, to help educators in these crazy
    times. And, yeah, together make the sum of
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    all knowledge available to anyone in
    different ways. Not only text, but also
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    videos like this one. So the talk is
    called "Public service, public value", and
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    that subline is "When Stars Collide".
    There's a reason for that. You know, I
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    could talk now about how stars are going
    around each other and they attract each
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    other and then they come together and
    there's a bang and sometimes there's a
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    neutron star and shooting all kinds of
    crazy stuff out of it, which we can then
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    measure here on earth. I could also show
    you this video, and I think the video
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    provided here, it was NASA content, would
    be a much better way to approach this
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    knowledge. And the beautiful thing about
    this, not only because it's good stuff
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    coming out of it and which matches the
    talk, but also that the NASA content is
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    not copyright protected, most of it,
    because it's provided by a federal agency
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    and there is the US copyright law. But
    also the ESA, the European Space Agency,
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    it also now provides content under a
    public, under an open license, which can
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    be adapted. So we had a big publicly
    funded agency, the ESA, which produced
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    good content, scientific content, which
    could be used to or could be put to good
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    use. And they decided to adapt Creative
    Commons licensing to adapt open licenses,
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    so that people could do good stuff with
    it. And that's what we wanted the public
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    broadcasters to do as well, which was not
    an easy task. But we had great experiences
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    and cooperations and we're working together
    now really good. The public broadcasters
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    in Germany are having a budget of about
    eight billion euros per annum, and they
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    make content available online. Well, you
    can access it. You can't really download
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    most of it. You cannot remix it, which is
    a problem for educators because remix is
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    like a standard case, everyday case for
    teachers. I used to be a teacher. I took
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    screenshots, put them on papers and built
    little quizzes out of old stuff or not
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    used a whole broadcast, but parts of it.
    And that's not really how I can use public
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    broadcast most of the time, because it has
    all rights reserved and I can just use it
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    in a noncommercial manner. And there lies
    the first problem. What is noncommercial?
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    When I'm teaching in a public school, ok.
    But when I'm teaching in the afternoon
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    to in kind of overtime paid by the hour to
    help a student privately or when I'm having
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    a blog or a website and there's
    advertisements on that to pay the fees for
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    the hosting. Is this or do I then monetize
    the content or if there's a private
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    partnership and the sponsoring there of
    putting it in student paper and publishing
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    it and then selling the student paper
    because they're printing stuff costs, is
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    this then monetarized? Is this commercial,
    is it not? So there's a whole can of worms
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    right there. So the content that's
    provided by the public broadcasters bottom
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    line is not usable for anyday use and not
    usable for Wikipedia, at least not for
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    remix and republishing issues. That's
    bad. And that's especially when there's
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    8 billion euros every year going into those
    public broadcasters. That should be
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    something we should engage in. Now we
    approach them, and in most cases, when you
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    approach the lawyers of the public
    broadcasters, they say, well, we'd like if
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    you use that content, but if you are
    asking me for permission to use that
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    content in that specific context, I have
    to say no. If you are, if you ask me, I
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    have to say no. And this is a bullshit
    situation right there. I mean, you have
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    someone who provides good, nonfictional
    content, which should be used for
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    educational use. He wants it to be used in
    that way. There's an educator who wants to
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    use it in that way. But we can't come
    together because of licensing policies.
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    And now it's legally right, but it still
    feels wrong. And we could, other than
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    piracy, we can do something about it. I
    mean, the content. The public broadcasters
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    provide their editorially independent, so
    they may be publicly funded, but the
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    politics stay out of way of the editorial
    process. So there may be some in the
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    supervisory boards. And there's as a whole
    debate going on about that in Germany, for
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    example. But the editors are free and
    there's good content produced and content
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    you can trust on. Content where there's a
    whole set of producers behind it who fact
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    check and who, if they make a mistake,
    make it right again. The public
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    broadcasters are not for profit. And they
    want to provide public content as they
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    call it a public value. And I think we can
    help with that. We have this beautiful big
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    platform where anyone who's searching for
    information lands at some point, whether
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    he's approaching it via speech assistance,
    which is then asking Wikipedia or Wikidata
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    for information, or whether he just puts
    it into a search box and then finds it and
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    accesses, for example, the text in
    Wikipedia. The content can be reused in
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    all kinds of manners because it is public,
    it is openly licensed. Most likely...
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    there's a whole range of licenses you can
    choose, we choose the most open licenses
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    for Wikipedia. That's a community
    decision. CC-BY, CC-SA or even CC0. I
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    won't go too deep into that. But you just
    have to remember, you can use that
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    content, you can remix it, you can put it
    into another content. You always have to
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    name the source of it. If it's not zero,
    you always have to name the source. And if
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    you edit it, you have to make that
    visible. Yeah, but the content provided by
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    the public broadcasters in this case, the
    ARD which is a public broadcaster in
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    Germany, is, of course, provided with all
    rights reserved. So you can't do a lot with
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    it. You can access it still. It's good
    stuff. And there's a lot of years in the
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    mediathek in the end, and YouTube and
    stuff. But there is potential. I'll show
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    you why. We had a campaign then, it was
    called public money, public content. You
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    may see where this is coming from. And we
    approached the public broadcasters to work
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    together on this. This was the same
    argument I just made here to you. In every
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    step of the way, we worked together with
    the community and with the awesome people
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    of Wiki loves broadcast. And we are...
    I'll come back to that in a minute... so
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    first, some public broadcasters in this
    case funk, which is a cooperation between
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    the two big public broadcasters in
    Germany. They are for producing content
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    for young people and younger audiences and
    they try to like summarize Wikipedia
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    pages, which is a problem for the
    community, because I say, well, it's nice
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    if you summarize it, but if the article
    changes, can we then change the video? No,
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    video editing is more expensive and you
    have to have certain programs for that and
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    skills that fewer people have. So there's
    a smaller community to do it. So that's
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    not content we really can use in
    Wikipedia. Although the videos were quite
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    high quality, they were rejected by the
    Wikipedia community. We came together in
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    best faith, but this just didn't work out
    as it sometimes does. Next try was to
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    provide pictures of people. In this case,
    there was reportage, a portrait of an
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    actor or actress in this case. And they
    put that in Wikimedia Commons so that it
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    could be used, for example on Wikipedia
    and it was used in several pages and also
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    on pages all over the Internet, always
    with a little mark that the content was
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    provided by the public broadcaster, which
    is fine. But community or some community
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    members said, well, this photo is well too
    good to be publicly licensed, so there's a
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    whole other can of worms and another
    problem right there. We overcame that with
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    a great pilot project, which I want to
    talk about right now. And if you're
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    listening in a public broadcaster working
    together with public broadcasting
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    somewhere in the world, you should now be
    very interested. Because what we achieved
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    here is openly licensed content being
    reused on all sorts of sites. We cannot
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    track everything, but we can track what we
    already did, like in the mediathek, in the
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    channels of the ZDF and on the YouTube
    channels and stuff. We can see how often
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    this content was approached and was
    used. We can track how much it was used in
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    Wikipedia and how often it was clicked on.
    And we can guess because it has been
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    published as well because provided under
    free and open license on Schulserver and
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    stuff like that - so on networks for
    schools and on servers that provide
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    educational content. And we can see that
    it's being adapted there and that the
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    communities, the educational community
    really wants to do things with it and is
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    putting it to good use. How much? Come to
    that in a minute. First, the ZDF started
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    with climate and environmentally connected
    content and provided a material from there.
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    So they came together with the producers,
    the editors, with everyone involved
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    in the process, and they
    said - in cooperation with us, we also
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    gave some hints maybe: We cannot give the
    whole episode of takes, which is big,
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    beautiful and very expensive and has a lot
    of third party content into the public
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    domain or into licenses openly. It's just
    too expensive and not really... we cannot
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    really do that. But there is
    some content inside these episodes which
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    is built or which is produced completely
    in-house, which we can target and which we
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    can buy the licenses for without straining
    our budget too much. So videos, CGIs,
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    short pieces that are being produced
    anyway. They just have to be licensed
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    under a CC license as well and then uploaded
    to Wikimedia Commons. So this was the
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    way to go for the ZDF and for the TerraX
    team. And they did it and they put a lot
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    of videos there, which was then adopted by
    the community, the Wikipedia community. So
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    the ZDF didn't do any editing in the
    Wikipedia, they just gave their input,
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    their content to the Commons, and then
    there was good stuff happening by the
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    community. They adapted it and put it into
    mostly German speaking because, of course,
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    it's German videos, German speaking
    Wikipedia, German language Wikipedia
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    articles, also some English Wikipedia
    articles. But there was also another
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    beautiful thing happening, as you can see
    right here. They also did, they started to
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    do read-ups because they saw it's good,
    it's high quality content. We can build
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    upon that. We can remix it and we can read
    of it in Dutch, in Welsh, in Esperanto,
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    and we can put subtitles on there in Latin
    and in Dutch and Catalan and in Spanish.
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    So. This content is now free and is
    evolving, and it's good, high quality,
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    nonfictional, mostly scientific content
    that helps the Wikipedia communities to
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    further reach their audience, to help
    provide knowledge to everyone, even if
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    you're maybe visually impaired or mentally
    impaired or you just don't want to read
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    a long text right now because your head is
    buzzing and there's not enough coffee in
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    the world. And you can just watch a video
    to maybe grasp the idea of this specific
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    article or this paragraph there a little
    better. It's another way of providing
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    information and it works together like a
    charm. And we can see that also by the
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    numbers on which those files are
    approached, so we tried first to do a page
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    view analysis, so we took all the content
    we monitored: In which sites is the content
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    implemented in or embedded in? And then
    tried to measure the viewership of the
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    pages, which didn't really work, because
    there was - and now it's over - 120 files
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    and we cannot really reproduce that. And
    we also tried to do a media view counter,
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    which also then strained at some point -
    it exceeded the limitations of the tools
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    we were having to measure that as soon as
    the files were too many. So we could like
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    add a direct comparison of files, how
    they're performing, how they're doing, but
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    we couldn't really track all of them. So
    then a great colleague of mine, he built
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    this beautiful mediaviews too, so that you
    can really monitor a whole category. So we
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    can now monitor how often the files in the
    category of TerraX provided videos - you
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    see the shot links right there,
    bit.ly/terrax30 - the last 30 days of his
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    of TerraX content from Wikipedia Commons.
    And we can see a monthly usage of over a
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    million views, which is a lot. Because
    this is not just someone randomly browsing
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    and finding this video and it's auto
    play. But searching for information on a
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    topic like as Taj Mahal or like the Harbor
    of Carthago or something like that. Or
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    covid vaccine. And then they're clicking
    on the article, they're clicking on the
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    video and view it and this is a very
    qualified account right there. And this
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    happens over a million times with content
    that the ZDF has provided now. Every
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    month. And still growing. And that's good
    in several ways. First, it's great for the
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    community because they can more easily
    reach the audience and they can help the
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    audience understand the topic better. It
    makes Wikipedia more beautiful for the
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    audience. Of course. We just talked about
    that. And also for the content provider
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    because, of course, the content is
    branded. There's a little logo in there
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    and it's called "video is provided by
    TerraX". I have stated the brand a few
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    times now. And of course, anyone who uses
    it has to quote the ZDF and give
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    attribution, which is good for the brand
    and it makes it more likely that at some
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    other point when you're searching for
    information on the topic, you'll be
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    circling back to TerraX, for example,
    and hopefully to Wikipedia. But there's
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    more. We have done some high level
    roundtables where we brought together
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    unions, teachers unions, as well as
    journalist unions, as well as young
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    journalists, people who work in research
    and universities, library organizations
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    and, of course, the Wikipedia community,
    to see how we better can work together and
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    what we can do and how we can monitor it
    and what is likely to be done and what
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    not. Because, of course, also the public
    broadcasters have wishes for the community
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    and for Wikimedia Deutschland and as well
    as the other way around. Our main
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    arguments here are that it improves the
    public good. It saves taxes. If schools,
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    public schools don't have to buy
    additional video content, for example, but
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    can use the content that is already
    publicly funded for free. It strengthens
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    the cooperation between different spheres
    of making knowledge available. And it's
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    further helping them reaching the audience
    on exactly the platforms that they're
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    searching for on, that they're searching
    for information on. So, as I said, our
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    campaign was called "public money, public
    good". And there were some reactions and
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    we had some great cooperations coming up
    then. At this point I have to thank all
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    the stakeholders as a part of the
    campaign. Not only the Chaos Communication
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    Club, Chaos Computer Club, but also the
    libraries association, the teachers
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    associations in Germany and Kiron
    University and some others that you can
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    see there. If you're a stakeholder on an
    international level and want to join this
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    claim for more content provided by the
    public broadcasters, reach out to me,
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    bernd.fiedler@wikimedia.de, and we can
    talk about it or maybe after that in the
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    Q&A. So we wrote a lot of letters. There
    were 10000 little postcards being sent to
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    the public broadcasters where anyone could
    put a little comment. I want to use that,
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    because ... And there were a lot of
    educators, teachers and knowledge workers
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    who reached out to us and said, finally, I
    want to use or have used in a limited way
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    the content already. And there's so much
    more and so much better stuff I want to do
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    with it. I want to screenshot it and put
    it on the paper and then build a Quiz out
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    of it, whatever. And there are the
    limitations of copyright and the Creative
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    Commons licensing makes it easier for me.
    Also, the idea is a second... or another
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    really big public broadcaster in Germany
    also tried to adapt Creative Commons
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    licensing. They did, even with their most
    important broadcasts like Tagesschau,
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    which is the news broadcast for every German.
    They are providing graphics and short
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    videos under a Creative Commons NC ND and
    so none for commercial and no variations
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    of stuff. So at least it is available
    indefinitely now. So it can be linked upon
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    and it can be used in certain ways,
    especially in schools. But you cannot
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    release it in a Wikipedia right now. They
    also put some podcasts like the
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    coronavirus update, which is like one of
    the most listened to podcasts right now, a
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    scientific podcast here in Germany under
    CC license, which is also a great step.
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    And there's a reason why they are hesitant
    to put content under a more open license,
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    not only because of licensing issues and
    because of the money you have to pay for
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    it, but also in fear of... there's some
    uses they don't want. In our experience,
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    though, we see that on the ZDF content.
    There's a lot of good stuff happening with
  • 25:32 - 25:40
    it. And none of the fears were matched,
    none of the fears really came true. There
  • 25:40 - 25:47
    are adaptations and there are read-ups,
    but they are good. They are in the way we
  • 25:47 - 25:53
    would have wanted it. And sometimes you
    just have to take a leap of faith and see
  • 25:53 - 25:57
    good stuff happening. Right. As of right
    now, so licensing policies and the public
  • 25:57 - 26:05
    broadcasters, they make... so the bad
    stuff is happening anyway, people will
  • 26:05 - 26:09
    steal it, will adapt it, will put little
    horns on people's heads and whatever, and
  • 26:09 - 26:13
    they don't really care about copyright,
    which also would not be possible with
  • 26:13 - 26:18
    Creative Commons, because there's
    limitations to that licensing given with
  • 26:18 - 26:24
    Creative Commons and putting it in a
    context where it's not right is one of
  • 26:24 - 26:30
    those limitations. But whatever. But
    Creative Commons makes the uses you want
  • 26:30 - 26:37
    to give, you want to make possible,
    available. And that's all very much
  • 26:37 - 26:42
    cheaply. And there will be stuff coming
    out from the idea, I hope. As of now,
  • 26:42 - 26:48
    there is the chair of the ARD, of the big
    public broadcast in Germany, and they say
  • 26:48 - 26:53
    it's a cornerstone. It's an important
    building block on which where, how to make
  • 26:53 - 26:58
    our content available indefinitely as
    possible and easily accessible as
  • 26:58 - 27:03
    possible. Even this press release, though,
    you see on the photo right there, there's
  • 27:03 - 27:10
    all rights reserved. This is copyrighted
    content, which I quote here. So way to go.
  • 27:10 - 27:15
    But there's good stuff. There's good
    faith. I have good faith. And there's a
  • 27:15 - 27:20
    lot of goodwill on all institutions. And
    we're working together to that common
  • 27:20 - 27:27
    goal. There's also a global task force of
    public broadcasters and they're saying: We
  • 27:27 - 27:34
    share the common duty to inform, educate
    and entertain. The engagement with
  • 27:34 - 27:40
    audiences of all ages across all ranges of
    broadcast and online services is critical
  • 27:40 - 27:44
    to our success in serving them whenever,
    wherever and however they want. And to
  • 27:44 - 27:49
    reach that, dear public broadcasters all
    around the world, whether you're the NPR,
  • 27:49 - 28:01
    the NHK, the PBS, the BBC, the RAA, CBC,
    EBC or ORF.. Your content should be freely
  • 28:01 - 28:08
    licensed, wherever possible. It should be
    paid fairly. It should be accessible
  • 28:08 - 28:14
    everywhere and it should be accessible any
    time. And then we can build upon it. And
  • 28:14 - 28:23
    there's all kinds of good stuff shooting
    out of it. And we can measure that now.
  • 28:23 - 28:33
    So our mission is clear. And there's a lot
    of good people working together on all sides
  • 28:33 - 28:37
    to make it possible, and I have to thank
    all the partners that we have been doing
  • 28:37 - 28:43
    great stuff up until now and will be doing
    great stuff in the years to come. And the
  • 28:43 - 28:52
    community, who is open for adapting the
    content and putting it to good use on
  • 28:52 - 28:57
    different Wikipedia pages. And if you're a
    public broadcaster and you think, well, I
  • 28:57 - 29:04
    want that, I want a part of that. Feel
    free to reach out to us and we will make
  • 29:04 - 29:10
    and bring this thing international. Our
    arguments condensed are there at
  • 29:10 - 29:16
    bit.ly/publicbroadcast on the medium block
    of the Wikimedia Foundation where we're
  • 29:16 - 29:23
    trying to commodate this whole talk into a
    few paragraphs. Thank you for listening,
  • 29:23 - 29:29
    for attending this session here. And I'm
    very happy to take your questions now. And
  • 29:29 - 29:37
    to gather, free, more great content to
    build amazing stuff out of it.
  • 29:37 - 29:40
    Thank you very much.
  • 29:43 - 29:50
    Herald: We are now connected to our
    speaker remotely. Not by satellite, just
  • 29:50 - 29:55
    like the usual public broadcasting studios
    do, but via Internet, because we are
  • 29:55 - 29:59
    modern. With Bernd Fiedler, who is our
    correspondent today, more or less. Hello
  • 29:59 - 30:03
    Bernd, how are you today?
    Bernd: Hello. I'm fine, and I hope you all
  • 30:03 - 30:08
    as well. You've heard a lot and I hope you
    have some questions for me.
  • 30:08 - 30:13
    Herald: We're still waiting for questions.
    You can still ask them by the IRC or
  • 30:13 - 30:18
    Twitter with the hashtag #rC3Wikipaka.
    We're listening to all of them and will
  • 30:18 - 30:23
    relay them to our speaker here. You had an
    interesting slide at the end of your talk,
  • 30:23 - 30:28
    towards the end of your talk, with Tom
    Buhrow, who was stating something along
  • 30:28 - 30:32
    the lines of "CC licenses are an important
    part of what the public broadcasting
  • 30:32 - 30:37
    institutions in Germany are doing." And at
    the very bottom right - you made me aware
  • 30:37 - 30:41
    of that, I didn't even see it first -
    there was an "all rights reserved" clause.
  • 30:41 - 30:47
    That looks to me like there is a cultural,
    cultural obstacles still to be surmounted,
  • 30:47 - 30:52
    to be surpassed. Is there any hope that
    this cultural change is taking place?
  • 30:52 - 30:58
    Bernd: Yes.
    Herald: OK, but it wasn't OK. How would
  • 30:58 - 31:03
    you say this?
    Bernd: Well, it's really not easy. They
  • 31:03 - 31:16
    are buying licenses and then they can do
    limited stuff with it, and they now have a
  • 31:16 - 31:22
    lot of contracts, and if you have a big
    ship like, the ARD or the ZDF, you have
  • 31:22 - 31:28
    all kinds of standard contracts. And you
    have to change those first before you can
  • 31:28 - 31:35
    do anything. So that's a chicken and egg
    problem. They also say we can't because they
  • 31:35 - 31:41
    are not, the contracts are not there. So I
    can't waive any rights. And the public
  • 31:41 - 31:47
    broadcasters say, well, they also wouldn't
    agree to it. So we don't have the
  • 31:47 - 31:53
    contracts yet. But there's a big cultural
    change going on right now. That's a lot of
  • 31:53 - 31:58
    effort and a lot of editors, a lot of
    content creators who want to try out
  • 31:58 - 32:03
    stuff, who are reaching out to us. But it
    takes time, because it's a big wheel we're
  • 32:03 - 32:07
    trying to turn here and big wheels take
    time to start turning.
  • 32:07 - 32:12
    Herald: Well, 2020 has taught us to be
    patient and wait for changes, but there
  • 32:12 - 32:17
    might be some people in the audience who
    don't want to wait. And what you told me
  • 32:17 - 32:22
    about these standard contracts sounds
    awfully familiar for people who work with
  • 32:22 - 32:28
    public administrations, who are facing
    similar problems with subcontractors and
  • 32:28 - 32:34
    people they depend upon. And one way that
    has been shown in that realm would be to
  • 32:34 - 32:39
    provide boilerplate licenses that the
    institutions can actually use and reuse.
  • 32:39 - 32:47
    Has anybody tried that?
    Bernd: Yeah, well, they are using Creative
  • 32:47 - 32:57
    Commons right now, but... I think - what
    exactly do you mean with boilerplate
  • 32:57 - 32:59
    licenses?
    Herald: Yeah, of course. I mean, Creative
  • 32:59 - 33:04
    Commons is, of course, a boilerplate
    license for sublicensing. But you told me
  • 33:04 - 33:09
    about, as far as I understand, that the
    public broadcasting institutions use
  • 33:09 - 33:14
    subcontractors to actually produce their
    content. And they would have to enter
  • 33:14 - 33:19
    contracts and new licenses that permit
    sublicensing under Creative Commons
  • 33:19 - 33:24
    clauses. So if somebody, let's say
    Wikimedia or some other instance, were to
  • 33:24 - 33:27
    provide the public broadcasters with
    boilerplate licenses for their
  • 33:27 - 33:30
    subcontractors, wouldn't that be an
    option?
  • 33:30 - 33:35
    Bernd: Uh, if we...
    Herald: Not to want you to drop the hot
  • 33:35 - 33:40
    potato in your lap, but...
    Bernd: We can't look that far into the
  • 33:40 - 33:45
    contract business of the public
    broadcasters and their subcontractors. But
  • 33:45 - 33:50
    this is exactly what we had with TerraX in
    the end. So they have, they are having
  • 33:50 - 33:55
    subcontractors. And at the very beginning
    of the process, of the broadcasting
  • 33:55 - 34:01
    process and production process, they said,
    well, let's try this and we will take some
  • 34:01 - 34:07
    stuff and release it under creative
    comments. Are you all right with that? In
  • 34:07 - 34:11
    an ongoing production and most contracts
    are already set and you always go back to
  • 34:11 - 34:17
    the same contractor - you can't really do
    that. That's, that's hard. You just, you
  • 34:17 - 34:23
    need an outside impulse for that. And
    that's where the audience comes into play,
  • 34:23 - 34:33
    because I bet all of you have a loved
    podcast or some broadcast that you see at
  • 34:33 - 34:37
    the public broadcasters and you want
    to bring to the Commons or content you
  • 34:37 - 34:41
    want to bring to the Commons. And of
    course, you can reach out as it is a
  • 34:41 - 34:46
    broadcaster. You can reach out to the
    Redaktion and say, we want to do that and
  • 34:46 - 34:50
    we want to see that in the Commons. Why
    isn't it? And then they have to ask the
  • 34:50 - 34:54
    legal people and the legal people then
    sometimes consult with us and then we can
  • 34:54 - 35:01
    try to do something. So it's big wheels,
    but many, many small angles where you can
  • 35:01 - 35:04
    attack.
    Herald: That sounds like a call to action
  • 35:04 - 35:08
    for me. People who are watching right now
    are listening right now. Where would they
  • 35:08 - 35:15
    direct such a question? Would they add ZDF
    or add ARDPresse or whatever on Twitter,
  • 35:15 - 35:19
    or is there any way that is more
    impactful? Maybe send a fax or something
  • 35:19 - 35:24
    like that?
    Bernd: You know what? Do that right now,
  • 35:24 - 35:30
    during this Q&A, you can add ARDPresse or
    ZDF to do just that. And there are people
  • 35:30 - 35:36
    there watching that and watching it. And
    the more impulses there are, the more
  • 35:36 - 35:42
    likely they will be moving. But also a
    standard email. They operate like every
  • 35:42 - 35:48
    Programmbeschwerde, every input from audiences
    is being read at the public broadcasters
  • 35:48 - 35:53
    offices. So just type an email and say, I
    love your content. Why isn't it Creative
  • 35:53 - 36:03
    Commons? Cheers, and there you go. This
    helps us a lot. And it helps the people
  • 36:03 - 36:08
    inside the houses, inside the public
    broadcasters who really want get things
  • 36:08 - 36:12
    going. But there are also the ones who
    say: We don't really need to change that,
  • 36:12 - 36:18
    do we? But you and us, we have to show
    them that the future lies in Creative
  • 36:18 - 36:26
    Commons licensing and not just getting on
    with not providing open content and
  • 36:26 - 36:31
    deleting stuff that is good and that could
    have been reused if only it would have
  • 36:31 - 36:35
    been licensed correctly.
    Herald: OK, so we are not screaming into
  • 36:35 - 36:40
    the void, but we have allies within the
    broadcasting authorities that really want
  • 36:40 - 36:44
    our help, actually, is that true?
    Bernd: It is. And there are a lot of
  • 36:44 - 36:49
    people doing the hard work. I mean, my job
    is easy. I'm sitting at the outside and
  • 36:49 - 36:53
    saying, why don't you, why couldn't you,
    oh that would be a good idea. And they are
  • 36:53 - 36:58
    confronted with all the people who know
    the ifs and whens and who always say "no,
  • 36:58 - 37:05
    because" and they're finding reasons why
    this shouldn't be possible. But we are now
  • 37:05 - 37:10
    going on from the production level because
    the content providers, they want their
  • 37:10 - 37:15
    products and their content to be remixed.
    We also gain from the political level
  • 37:15 - 37:19
    because that's important for the public
    broadcasters, obviously. And we are going
  • 37:19 - 37:27
    on from the Intendanten, so from the chair
    level. I mean, everyone working at the ARD
  • 37:27 - 37:35
    and the ZDF, there is a little bit... if
    they try something new, they can fail and
  • 37:35 - 37:40
    they can get smacked over the head with
    people who are angry at them. Because
  • 37:40 - 37:46
    there are so many angry people out there who
    attack the broadcasters all the time. And
  • 37:46 - 37:52
    if they see that it works at one public
    broadcaster, like at the ZDF, it's very much
  • 37:52 - 37:57
    more likely that another public
    broadcaster will also try. That's a trial,
  • 37:57 - 38:00
    that course of action.
    Herald: Well, this is...
  • 38:00 - 38:06
    Bernd: a little bit "Beamtenmikado"
    Herald: That's very close to your heart
  • 38:06 - 38:11
    because, I mean, we do have our WTFalpha
    night program and we would have loved to
  • 38:11 - 38:15
    include Bernd das Brot in that. So for all
    the people who are right now composing
  • 38:15 - 38:17
    tweets at ZDF...
    Bernd: copyrighted...
  • 38:17 - 38:22
    Herald: Well, maybe in the future and
    maybe we're depending on all the people
  • 38:22 - 38:29
    composing tweets right now at ZDF, for all
    the activists who do have experience with
  • 38:29 - 38:37
    mass mailing members of parliament, they
    actually know that mass mails that follow
  • 38:37 - 38:45
    a template are, well, not as not as
    impactful as individual letters. So is it
  • 38:45 - 38:52
    a detriment if they include in the in
    their tweet, the ÖGÖG hashtag or any other
  • 38:52 - 38:56
    campaign mode?
    Bernd: the German slogan for "public
  • 38:56 - 39:02
    money, public content" - "öffentliches
    Geld, öffentliches Gut", ÖGÖG. Yeah, well,
  • 39:02 - 39:07
    you can do that. So we can we can monitor
    it a little bit and see who else is
  • 39:07 - 39:12
    interested in that. You can also reach out
    to the Wiki loves broadcast group in
  • 39:12 - 39:18
    Wikipedia. They're a group of activists
    who have experience in that and who are
  • 39:18 - 39:24
    standing by to help public broadcasters
    understand the Wikipedia and to see
  • 39:24 - 39:29
    whether and where the content fits. So
    there's a lot of ways to engage in that.
  • 39:29 - 39:34
    And if you have ideas for that or just
    questions, you can reach out to me any
  • 39:34 - 39:38
    time. You have my address. That's
    mediumarticle@wikimediafoundation or you
  • 39:38 - 39:44
    can just write me
    bernd.fiedler@wikimedia.de. And yeah, I'm
  • 39:44 - 39:50
    happy to help. Yes, that's good stuff. We
    want to have it in the public domain.
  • 39:50 - 39:54
    Let's make it possible together. I need
    help.
  • 39:54 - 40:00
    Herald: That sounds like a call to action
    in the background chat that we have
  • 40:00 - 40:05
    before we went live, you mentioned
    something about big, did you say the big
  • 40:05 - 40:11
    gulf of material that's already been
    produced and is in the kind of legal
  • 40:11 - 40:15
    limbo, that it's not so easily released
    right now. Can you talk a little bit more
  • 40:15 - 40:21
    about that?
    Bernd: I think I misunderstood the
  • 40:21 - 40:28
    question of the...
    Herald: I mean, we have a similar
  • 40:28 - 40:33
    situation in the United States with the
    works that have been published after the
  • 40:33 - 40:39
    1920s, where copyright law has been made
    more stringent and original creators can't
  • 40:39 - 40:44
    be contacted anymore.
    Bernd: Yeah, we have two courses of action
  • 40:44 - 40:48
    that the public broadcasters are trying
    right now. I mean, if you if you're
  • 40:48 - 40:56
    sitting on a treasure box, you want to
    open it up and share it. If it doesn't get
  • 40:56 - 41:02
    less, that's where... so the idea is
    trying to provide content that they
  • 41:02 - 41:07
    already have produced, but clearing the
    rights for that stuff that's already is
  • 41:07 - 41:14
    produced is a pain in the ass. And it's
    really hard and sometimes impossible to
  • 41:14 - 41:20
    reach every creator who was connected with
    a production. So everything that's in the
  • 41:20 - 41:26
    past is kind of lost for our goal for
    Creative Commons license, especially stuff
  • 41:26 - 41:31
    that's being produced and that has been
    released after 1970 or so. So they are
  • 41:31 - 41:38
    opening up the archives and that's really
    a treasure for Wikipedia. They can then
  • 41:38 - 41:44
    link to it and they can at least access it
    indefinitely. But the other course of
  • 41:44 - 41:51
    action seems to me much more sustainable -
    to see in which new productions from now
  • 41:51 - 41:58
    on we can implement Creative Commons
    licensing and so that we can only look and
  • 41:58 - 42:05
    walk into the future here. Although I'd
    love to see all the good stuff I've been
  • 42:05 - 42:11
    seeing on the air already, too, to become
    Creative Commons, but that's really hard.
  • 42:11 - 42:21
    Herald: Well, not to end on a dystopic
    note, but to go forth with the utopias,
  • 42:21 - 42:26
    there is a way to to open at least the
    future releases. And you've shown
  • 42:26 - 42:30
    us how to do that. And we thank you. I
    mean, we are the unofficial public
  • 42:30 - 42:38
    broadcasting cosplay channel at rC3. So
    anybody who's interested in having more
  • 42:38 - 42:43
    interesting night program for future
    programing, please contact Bernd. Bernd,
  • 42:43 - 42:48
    thanks again so much for being on air
    right now with us and keep up the good
  • 42:48 - 42:50
    fight in the name of the love of public
    broadcasting.
  • 42:50 - 42:58
    Bernd: I'm counting on you. See you soon.
    Herald: See you, bye Bernd!
  • 42:58 - 43:01
    Wikipaka postroll music
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    Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
    in the year 2021. Join, and help us!
Title:
#rC3 - Public service, public value
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