Going Icon-less and changing sigs to support the Mods...

Discussion in 'Communications' started by kreleia, Feb 27, 2004.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    I'm keeping my icon, because I believe the owner has the right to know who's moderating his property when the information is given and kept in confidence.

    I've seen many mod changes since I've been here, and the boards haven't fallen down with the arrival or departure of any given mod.

    With that said, I do appreciate the work that the demoted mods put in here. However, if they don't wish to comply by the owner's rules, then they can be a regular poster and contribute to the forums in that fashion.
  2. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    ok DM, we know you want to be a mod, there's no need to continue repeating yourself
  3. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    The letter may be written fairly well, but it has flaws.

    1. So far, City Rep's haven't been asked for their information. The only people who were required to send in information were TFN Staff Members, JC Admin/Manager/Mod's, and Fan Force RSA/GSA's.
    2. Telephone numbers were not required.
    3. The address of the site where he wanted them to register has been made public - I saw the name mentioned somewhere in one of these threads.
    4. At that site, the information wasn't viewable to other mods, it was being kept in a database. The only way anyone other than Philip and his associates who are responsible for that site could see the information would be via hacking.
    5. The complaint by most mods wasn't the request for information itself, but the way in which Philip handled the situation.
    6. It's blatantly ignoring the fact that Philip owns this site, and is free to do with it as he wants. The fact is that "free speech" in the Constitution tends to relate to censorship by the government, not rules laid down on private property. For every "free speech" argument, there's a "property owner's rights" argument that could easily override it.
  4. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Exactly - the "free speech" thing is absolute nonsense. If you want to say exactly what you want then you'll have to start your own messageboard. BUT, you'll still have to adhere to the rules of your webspace provider unless of course you want to buy your own server and connect it to the internet.
  5. DarthBane420 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2003
    star 5
    The most ridiculous aspect of this entire controversy is the following.
    The current demoted mods and admins have all spoke in unison at how bad a decision this was and some have even taken it a step further by out right calling him names publically. The ex-head admin no less.
    If they do indeed believe that Phillip Wise is so tyrannical and "out of touch" why in the blue hell would any continue to work for him after this? Where is the guarantee that down the road the same type of situation won't pop up again?

    The mods blew it with this one. They could have started there own site, took the fan forces with them, and then truly had a "fan site" in every sense of the word.
    Instead I predict they will all sign back up soon enough and celebrate by telling everyone the ownership has ruled this incident "case closed" and if anyone speaks on it again they will be banned.
    Watch, I'll be right.
  6. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    ok DM, we know you want to be a mod, there's no need to continue repeating yourself


    That simply isn't the case nor my intent, and I've stated that previously. I'm merely stating my opinion here, and there's really no need for such a statement meant to deride me or lessen my input on these matters.

    There are a plethora of demoted mod-supporting threads here, basically all of which are repeating themselves as well, and I am merely interjecting my opinion on this one.

    I also agree with this:

    It's blatantly ignoring the fact that Philip owns this site, and is free to do with it as he wants. The fact is that "free speech" in the Constitution tends to relate to censorship by the government, not rules laid down on private property. For every "free speech" argument, there's a "property owner's rights" argument that could easily override it.
  7. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    420, this has been tough all around for everyone and we've all been second-guessing and thinking hard on it. But despite what others said to you regarding your comments to me, I took them as constructive. We're cool, okay? I want you to know I was never devastated by any of it, nor did it depress me. Seriously, my life is my children. And I have always done this from work and rarely from home. It's how I get by at work at a slow job. It's not my life at all. It's definitely something I love doing. But I don't even talk about the films at home. Nobody at work even knows I've even seen Star Wars because we don't even talk about that sort of stuff here. It's how I've always been. So I just wanted to make sure everyone understood me arguing an idea passionately because I've grown to care about the place versus having a real and physical connection that causes me real-life sadness and depression. It would never happen. It is a messageboard all about fun.
  8. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    All of us love these boards, Sapient.

    Your work and contributions were certainly valuable to the forums, and I think you did a good job.

    I wanted you to know that my opinions on these matters aren't personal, merely a businesslike opinion.
  9. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I never took them as personal. I don't think I ever have. I really try to grow from constructive criticism. All of this is a personal choice each mod has to make. The door is open while there are positions left vacant. But registration is required. I said I'd express myself until there were no more avenues. And then I'd have to decide.
  10. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 6
    YodaJeff wrote:

    1. So far, City Rep's haven't been asked for their information. . . . Telephone numbers were not required.

    I've heard conflicting reports on what has happened/is likely to happen with the CR's. Yours is the first post I've seen that says telephone numbers aren't required. Even if they aren't, how hard would this be:

    "Hello, directory assistance? I'd like the number of John Q. Mod, who lives at 123 Maple St., Chicago, Illinois . . ."

    In any case, just being asked to hand over the address is creepy enough.

    The address of the site where he wanted them to register has been made public

    In that case, I'm sure its daily attack log suddenly jumped to about 20 times its usual length.

    At that site, the information wasn't viewable to other mods, it was being kept in a database. The only way anyone other than Philip and his associates who are responsible for that site could see the information would be via hacking.

    And this isn't scary why?

    The complaint by most mods wasn't the request for information itself, but the way in which Philip handled the situation.

    Trouble is, it wasn't a request. If providing the information had been optional, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    It's blatantly ignoring the fact that Philip owns this site, and is free to do with it as he wants. The fact is that "free speech" in the Constitution tends to relate to censorship by the government, not rules laid down on private property.

    So if you come over to my house, I can grab your wallet and rifle through it, looking for your driver's license and Social Security card?

    Why not? I'm not the government. You're on private property. Your 4th Amendment right to protection against unreasonable search and seizure doesn't apply here, right?

    Even local ordinances apply in people's homes and private businesses--as anyone who's been ticketed for having an ugly lawn or a barking dog can tell you. Why would the U.S. Constitution stop applying once you step onto private property?

    For every "free speech" argument, there's a "property owner's rights" argument that could easily override it.

    This is incorrect. Please see my earlier post on the "compelling state interest" test.
  11. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "I've heard conflicting reports on what has happened/is likely to happen with the CR's."

    As of now, CR's haven't been asked for information. Your letter said that they had been. It didn't say that they were likely to in the future, it said that the had been, which was incorrect.

    "Yours is the first post I've seen that says telephone numbers aren't required."

    Then you obviously didn't see the 5 or so other posts where mods and others clearly stated that.

    ""Hello, directory assistance? I'd like the number of John Q. Mod, who lives at 123 Maple St., Chicago, Illinois . . .""

    That's assuming they have a publically listed number.

    "In any case, just being asked to hand over the address is creepy enough."

    Where did I say that it wasn't creepy?

    "Trouble is, it wasn't a request. If providing the information had been optional, we wouldn't be having this conversation."

    It was a request. A "request" doesn't necessarily mean that something is optional. A site owner should have every right to know who is volunteering for them. In your letter, you implied that the mods were upset that they had to give away their information. In reality, most were upset at the way the situation was handled by the owners, which is why some gave away their information and still stepped down.

    "And this isn't scary why?"

    I didn't say that it wasn't scary. I said that it wasn't available for the other mods to view, and that your letter was incorrect in that aspect.

    "Your 4th Amendment right to protection against unreasonable search and seizure doesn't apply here, right?"

    I never stated that the Constitution didn't apply on private property. I stated that "freedom of speech" was in relation to government censorship, not people being able to say anything they want anywhere they want. You aren't free to call in bomb threats, nor are you free to yell "fire" in a crowded theater.
  12. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    > Instead I predict they will all sign back up soon enough and celebrate by telling everyone the ownership has ruled this incident "case closed" and if anyone speaks on it again they will be banned.
    Watch, I'll be right.


    // Watching //

  13. legacyAccount Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2012
    *munches on popcorn while watching with jp*
  14. mac-nut Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2001
    star 5
    *reaches for some popcorn* :D :D :D
  15. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Is Sapes Back? I was over at the 3SA and saw one of his posts, and he has his colors back along with his title as 3SA Manager.

  16. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Well, those are all the signs.
  17. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Awesome man, it's good to have you back as a Mod!

    P.S. - I guess I can get my icon back now, I missed it.
  18. mirax80 Retired Midwest RSA

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 4
    Good to see you back in your yellow Sape.

    ...
    To bad I'm spoiler free and I'm not even touching anything with the words EP3 on them.
  19. DashRendar1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2004
    star 1
    I support the mods but I like having an Icon too much to give it up. I hope you understand.
  20. Jedi_Jessie_Anne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2004
    star 3
    I too am going back to my icon. I still support the mods and their efforts, but it feels weird to me to not have an icon.
  21. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    Still posting sans icon.... and altering my sig, although the threads I link to for an "explanation" keep getting locked. [face_plain]
  22. Darth_Zidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4
    I'm considering not getting my icon back until Philip Wise is no longer owner.

    So I probably won't ever have an icon, but that's OK.
  23. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 6
    I'll probably go back to using an icon again sooner or later, since I've done everything I can think of to do and it hasn't done any good.

    However, at the moment it doesn't really matter if I go back to using an icon or change my sig, since I'm too ticked off to want to post anything but complaints in Comms. Somehow, pro- and anti-salad threads seem less entertaining than usual.

    Yet another way in which the JC has exceeded my wildest dreams.
  24. darth_paul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    So if you come over to my house, I can grab your wallet and rifle through it, looking for your driver's license and Social Security card?

    Why not? I'm not the government. You're on private property. Your 4th Amendment right to protection against unreasonable search and seizure doesn't apply here, right?
    Well, you'd be well within your legal rights to demand that information of them and kick them off your property if they refused. You're the owner, and you can kick anyone off for doing (or not doing) anything you don't like (except where specifically prohibited, for reasons like race, which have been established in particular lawys).
  25. JediYvette Pacific RSA emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2001
    star 6
    Not having my icon is making me sad. I want it back! :_|
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