Avatar image for drlove
#1 Edited by DrLove (449 posts) -
Avatar image for fatalbanana
#2 Edited by fatalbanana (1056 posts) -

I don't get it. I'm not familiar with Mr. LegacyKillah's work but he's not wrong. Leaking something you know isn't meant for public consumption then getting mad that the people that are in charge of that information have a problem with it is silly. There's very little difference between this and breaking embargo. And doing it under the guise of "real journalism" speaks to how ignorant this journalist is about how the industry works. Sure, you can leak whatever you want to but expecting there to be no consequence for that (either privately or otherwise) is amateur level ignorance. Him being arrogant and pointing fingers everywhere without considering pointing them at himself is telling.

If you don't want consequences for leaking shit then don't leak shit. He knows exactly what he did he's just mad that he's being called out for it. Oh, and for future reference if your posting something from youtube, embed it using the video tab at the top of the editor. It just makes it easier for everyone.

Avatar image for ares42
#3 Edited by Ares42 (4094 posts) -

First off, the commenter (and most videos like this) is awful. As for what Shane did.. He should've known better. But then again, it's Shane. The way I read it this was just him trying to figure out how to stay relevant in this new YT driven era and making a bad judgement call. It's not like it's the first time he's been responsible for some messed up editorial decisions.

Edit: The more I think about this whole thing, the more interesting part about this story is how perfectly it illustrates the generational gap we have in gaming now. Shane is a veteran of the industry and we have this line of new "journalists" and their audience just going "who is this irrelevant guy?".

Avatar image for hakunin
#4 Posted by hakunin (543 posts) -

@drlove:

Thoughts:

Have some actual content in the OP, not just a link to some youtuber. You know, so I actually know what you're talking about. Also so I don't assume this has something to do with the Audi car company.

Shane Satterfield, huh? Haven't heard that name since GameTrailers went under. Never was a fan, his actions were dumb, his justifications likewise, he should have known better. He's probably gonna find it pretty hard to get in to closed-door demos like that from now on.

Avatar image for meteora3255
#5 Edited by meteora3255 (673 posts) -

CD Project Red knows better than most developers what happens when you show a game too early, as the backlash from the first Witcher 3 trailer's graphics showed. It's understandable that they would be aggressive in keeping that demo under wraps.

The thing that got to me was that he kept harping on his "real journalism" and then proceeded to say they were basically doing it for the clicks. As another "trained journalist" (B.A. in Journalism from Indiana University) I don't ever remember being told to "create news" using my available assets or that my goal was to drive clicks. I'm not naive, money drives everything, but it's also not the core tenet of the job.

It was also quite annoying to hear him claim everyone who didn't record audio was either not thinking critically about their job, "on the take" or a "lemming" following the publisher's orders. I understand he wasn't bound by an NDA but that doesn't mean he has free reign to publish whatever without consequences. He had to know there was a non-zero chance CDPR would flag the video. In fact, based on his comments I expect he knew it would happen and just hoped it would get picked up by the mainstream (with his name/website attached) before that happened.

At the end of the day, he was pretty transparent on the video about what this was. It was a publicity stunt for his website to try and get in front of more people.

Avatar image for onemanarmyy
#6 Posted by Onemanarmyy (3839 posts) -

Is there a debate? It seems like everyone but the guy himself agrees that it was bad. Is there a group of people out there going to bat for his actions?

Avatar image for drlove
#7 Posted by DrLove (449 posts) -

Is there a debate? It seems like everyone but the guy himself agrees that it was bad. Is there a group of people out there going to bat for his actions?

It was more in regards to how he was defending himself. My understanding from the audio (haven't heard it myself) is that CDPR stated "no video or picture taking during the demo." Common-sense kicked in for everyone there and it was assumed that would include audio. Also with it being behind-closed-doors as well. I think Shane is saying because they did not literally say no audio recording and there was no NDA agreement he is semantically correct. But it is obvious that he was in the wrong but he is refusing too admit it on moral grounds of being a "true journalist."

Avatar image for drlove
#8 Posted by DrLove (449 posts) -

@hakunin said:

@drlove:

Thoughts:

Have some actual content in the OP, not just a link to some youtuber. You know, so I actually know what you're talking about. Also so I don't assume this has something to do with the Audi car company.

Shane Satterfield, huh? Haven't heard that name since GameTrailers went under. Never was a fan, his actions were dumb, his justifications likewise, he should have known better. He's probably gonna find it pretty hard to get in to closed-door demos like that from now on.

No Caption Provided

Thanks for catching the spelling mistake.

Avatar image for quantris
#9 Posted by Quantris (1194 posts) -

I was almost mad at you for spoiling that you get an Audi in this game. I'm trying to stay spoiler-free.

Avatar image for theht
#10 Posted by TheHT (15683 posts) -
@drlove said:
@hakunin said:

@drlove:

Thoughts:

Have some actual content in the OP, not just a link to some youtuber. You know, so I actually know what you're talking about. Also so I don't assume this has something to do with the Audi car company.

Shane Satterfield, huh? Haven't heard that name since GameTrailers went under. Never was a fan, his actions were dumb, his justifications likewise, he should have known better. He's probably gonna find it pretty hard to get in to closed-door demos like that from now on.

No Caption Provided

Thanks for catching the spelling mistake.

Very confused reading this thread cause a that typo lol, but now it's somewhat clearer. Shane Satterfield recorded audio of the E3 demo and released it, then doubled down when the devs got mad about it?

Your post about semantics makes it sound like he was okay on a technicality. Whether it betrayed the spirit of their request is besides the point. Better off just leaving him and whatever he released alone and be more explicit next time. I mean it's kinda shitty and not really some big journalistic triumph getting the fuckin audio of a game demo out there, but anytime comic-con trailers and shit like this get taken down I reflexively roll my eyes.

Avatar image for burncoat
#11 Posted by burncoat (502 posts) -

This dude just burned every bridge and got himself blacklisted from future events. He won't be very effective as a journalist if nobody can trust him with behind the scenes information or exclusive details.

It also affects others in the field because now developers will either have to vet better or be extra secretive when it comes to pre-release info. Not that some "leak" like this will happen, but that it could happen. Companies can't control leaks, informants, or trademark filings 100% of the time, but they can control what they decide to give out or invite. I doubt this incident will break the industry or mess things up, but CDPR at least will be more cautious.

Avatar image for bladeofcreation
#12 Posted by BladeOfCreation (1069 posts) -

I've always felt bad for developers that have stuff leaked ahead of time. Games are a big business and games are obviously commercial products. But they're also art. Imagine that you're working on art for YEARS, and some of that gets leaked before you're ready to show it to the general public.

It's a shitty thing to do, and I think gaming sites that deal in that sort of "news" are pretty shitty. They act like they're real journalists, reporting on news. Nah...you're actually spilling the beans on someone's art before they're ready. That's a crappy move right there.

Online
Avatar image for ares42
#13 Posted by Ares42 (4094 posts) -

@burncoat: It's not like it's the first time someone has leaked something from a private showing at E3. As for Shane burning bridges, this move shows that he might be trying to maneuver his site into the direction Kotaku has gone. Considering his past in the industry he more than likely has a bunch of insider contacts he could lean on to produce "real" news in the way Jason Schreier has been able to give Kotaku a nice boost, or at least he might think he does. I mean, it's not like it's a big secret that being yet another outlet with "access" no longer is a recipe for success. He has already been leaning on certain exclusive sources for original content for a while.

I don't think he expected the backlash to be this big, but considering his own words it's pretty safe to say he thought this was their shot at making their site into a "legitimate" news source. And he was ready to go there no matter the consequences.

Avatar image for bollard
#14 Edited by Bollard (8060 posts) -

Man I thought it had come to light that the car in the trailer was an Audi concept car. Way less exciting than the actual leak...

Avatar image for soulcake
#15 Edited by soulcake (2336 posts) -

I mean let's face it, the chance is big that in the future VAG (Volkswagen Audi group) makes all the cars.

Oh it's Audio* hmm yeah next time he should bring one of those court drawing folks and let him sketch some screenshots.....

Avatar image for ntm
#16 Edited by NTM (11381 posts) -

Hmm. I've been wondering what Shane has been up to. I actually liked hearing what he had to say when he worked at GameTrailers and would agree with him on some things, that said he was always the one people got most annoyed with, and to be honest, he seems a little entitled or just kind of whiny when people don't agree with him. In this case, it feels like he was thinking 'Hey, let's put this out there. We'll be the first and people will come to us! People are excited about Cyberpunk, right?'

Avatar image for hakunin
#17 Posted by hakunin (543 posts) -

I mean, if they aren't allowing you to record video at this clearly closed-door demo...

That's clearly not for public consumption...

And then you record audio...

That you then post on the internet...

Without permission...

What the hell did you think would happen?

Satterfield has never been the sharpest knife in the drawer, but this is just idiotic.

Avatar image for boozak
#18 Posted by BoOzak (2401 posts) -

@ares42 said:

First off, the commenter (and most videos like this) is awful. As for what Shane did.. He should've known better. But then again, it's Shane. The way I read it this was just him trying to figure out how to stay relevant in this new YT driven era and making a bad judgement call. It's not like it's the first time he's been responsible for some messed up editorial decisions.

Edit: The more I think about this whole thing, the more interesting part about this story is how perfectly it illustrates the generational gap we have in gaming now. Shane is a veteran of the industry and we have this line of new "journalists" and their audience just going "who is this irrelevant guy?".

Yeah it seems like half of Youtube is filled with people that just go along with public outrage to get clicks and dont really add anything meaningful to the discussion. I am surpised that Shane would do something like this. He did do some dopey stuff at Gametrailers but nothing like this to my knowledge. I can understand him being a bit confused that they took down his video since there was no NDA but he should have had the foresight that this wasnt worth doing even if he technically didnt break any rules.

Also is the person he was referring to Geoff Keighley? I didnt read any of the comments but hes the only guy I know of that hosts his own events for developers and publishers. (also those two have some history so that might be why the burn cut deeper than others)

Anyway listening to the audio doesnt really interest me as they have already talked about the details of the game publically so I dont even know what this accomplishes.

Avatar image for rethla
#19 Posted by rethla (3722 posts) -

"journalists"

Anyone got a link to a video of a journalist criticising the journalist that criticise the journalist?

Avatar image for chaser324
#20 Posted by Chaser324 (8578 posts) -

Wow. It was Shane Satterfield that leaked it?! That dude has been around long enough to know better and trying to spin this as being "journalism" is just plain unprofessional.

Moderator
Avatar image for hatking
#21 Edited by HatKing (7428 posts) -

If what this dork's YouTube friends said is true and CD Projekt really showed a closed demo without an NDA and expected it to be kept quite, they're morons and fully deserve to have the entire thing posted. That said, I truly, truly doubt there was no type of NDA present. I spent about four years in the industry and signed more NDAs than I can remember, and I wasn't even press or going to conventions. I know already that there was some sort of sign in, as Dan spoke of on the podcast, and it was probably just fine print in that process.

If he signed an NDA and then leaked the audio anyway, well, he'll get what he deserves: the video taken down, a compromised level of trust, never invited to another CD Projekt closed demo, and possibly legal fees depending on how aggressive the NDA is.

Avatar image for flstyle
#22 Edited by FLStyle (6536 posts) -

Stupid move, I wonder who called him the "A-hole" that was said in the video.

Avatar image for slag
#23 Posted by Slag (8109 posts) -

Shatterfield's site Siftd is financial dire straits by their own admission. I suspect that could be why he did this, He's possibly just desperate to try to generate traffic.

Still this is an Incredibly stupid move that doesn't help anybody. Not Cd projekt Red, not gamers, not games journalism and not his company.

Isn't it against the law to record somebody without their permission in California due to the California Recording Law?

Avatar image for drlove
#25 Posted by DrLove (449 posts) -

@bollard said:

Man I thought it had come to light that the car in the trailer was an Audi concept car. Way less exciting than the actual leak...

No Caption Provided

This kinda looks like the trailer car.. lol

Avatar image for drlove
#26 Posted by DrLove (449 posts) -

@flstyle said:

Stupid move, I wonder who called him the "A-hole" that was said in the video.

Im curious about that as well. Wondering if the beef will continue

Avatar image for hnke
#27 Edited by hnke (160 posts) -

@meteora3255: Since you're a Trained Journalist, isn't there something of a triptych of permittance in your profession called 1) on the record, 2) on background, and 3) off the record? In some loose translation to video game journalism, would this not fall under one or more of the latter two?

Avatar image for stordoff
#28 Posted by stordoff (1356 posts) -

If you went to a film screening, you wouldn't record it (even part of it) and then try to defend it as journalism. I'm not sure why this would be any different.

Avatar image for meteora3255
#29 Edited by meteora3255 (673 posts) -

@hnke: It's not a perfect 1-to-1 translation but I suppose you could make a case that the demo was "on background" i.e. you can use the information (discuss it, write about it, describe it, etc.) but you can't "quote" it (using audio/video). The thing is, those parameters need to be set before the interview as it were. You can't say something and then later declare it to be off the record/on background. This case is very different because they used assets from the demo, but keeping with the comparison, it can be reputation breaking to name sources/use info that was provided on background/off the record.

Avatar image for poobumbutt
#30 Posted by poobumbutt (926 posts) -

I don't get it, either. As Austin Walker and the speaker in this video point out, audio recording of an interview like this are common, just not usually (read: basically ever) released publically. I... don't know how Shane could be confused about CDPR's stance here.

No, there doesn't seem to have been an NDA broken, but is it undeniably a "dick move"? Hell yes, and I can't believe Shane wasn't aware of that when he decided to release the audio, especially as someone with so much industry experience. Oh, yeah. And someone else pointed out it's possibly illegal - or at least bordering it. Just... weird.

Also, I'm surprised I haven't heard a ground swell with gamers praising Shane (though, I'm SURE they're out there). It just seems that whether it's devs, journalists or fans, other video game fans will dogpile whoever was in the camp of "keeping info away from us". Rah, rah, for the people, and all that. I'm glad there seems to be a collective head-shake toward Shane in this case.

Avatar image for onemanarmyy
#31 Posted by Onemanarmyy (3839 posts) -

@poobumbutt: It certainly helps that CD Projekt Red has a really good reputation with most of the fans. If this happened to an ea / ubisoft game , i bet there would be more people okay with releasing audio of this.

Avatar image for ares42
#32 Posted by Ares42 (4094 posts) -

@poobumbutt: It's because the CDPR fanboys are louder. Having spent a good chunk of time circulating the Gwent community there's some next level stuff going on with that core audience. I mean, just in the video the guy talks about not wanting to listen to the audio "out of respect for CDPR". Not because he doesn't want to be spoiled, or because it might be misleading or anything like that, just because it would be disrespectful.

Avatar image for zeik
#33 Posted by Zeik (5161 posts) -

@ares42: What's wrong with that? You have a weirdly mocking attitude toward the idea of respecting other people's work, like only crazy obsessed fanboys would do it. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, because I really don't get it.

Avatar image for ares42
#34 Posted by Ares42 (4094 posts) -

@zeik: How many people talked about Jason Schreier being disrespectful about revealing Fallout 76 was an always online survival game ? Pretty much no one. Actually, most people were ready to hop on the hate train and chide Bethesda for not making the thing they wanted. It's close to unprecedented in the gaming community that something about a game gets leaked and people go "no, we should respect the developers and not partake or discuss this in any way".

I'm not mocking the idea of treating developers with respect, I'm mocking a community I've experienced being insanely over the top naive and zealous in regards to a commercial company.

Avatar image for zeik
#35 Edited by Zeik (5161 posts) -

@ares42: It's different when you go through the accepted channels to obtain that kind of information, like a proper journalist. This is a very different thing than the usual kinds of leaks, because they willingly presented this to the press and the press were allowed to talk about what they saw, as long as they agree to certain terms, like not recording it. But someone decided to be greedy and a little scummy and record what they were asked not to and share it for clicks, despite everyone else who saw it agreeing to those terms.

So yes, this absolutely was disrespectful to CDPR, as well as every other games media person who saw the demo, and although I wouldn't chastise someone for looking up the leaked info, I also think it's entirely within reason to not want to view it out of respect for CDPR.

Avatar image for ares42
#36 Posted by Ares42 (4094 posts) -

@zeik: No one is trying to argue this wasn't disrespectful. But this is not in any way worse than the usual case of someone talking to employees of a company and getting them to reveal secrets that they're not supposed to talk about.

Avatar image for dynamix
#37 Posted by Dynamix (404 posts) -

Came for some crazy future Audi stuff, left extremely disappointed.

Avatar image for onemanarmyy
#38 Posted by Onemanarmyy (3839 posts) -

@dynamix: Don't worry. This thread will get so huge that people start taking the title serious. CD Projekt Red & Audi get contacted by rabid fans and are forced to engage in a partnership. Suddenly, Audi's everywhere.

Avatar image for poobumbutt
#39 Posted by poobumbutt (926 posts) -

@ares42: @onemanarmyy: These are both solid points. I, for one haven't listened to the audio because I figure for the most part, anything they'd say off-hand in interview but wouldn't already be known info on the game would be very subject to change. Add in the fact that I personally wouldn't even hazard a guess when this game is coming out, I don't think there's much point.

Plus, the fact that according to Austin, it's mostly just talk about their inspiration for the game, how they went about designing it, etc. Interesting, but not terribly critical information; to damage your trust with such a respected developer just for that? To get some traffic on your (admittedly struggling) website? It just seems so odd.

Avatar image for vortextk
#40 Posted by Vortextk (787 posts) -

@ares42 said:

@zeik: No one is trying to argue this wasn't disrespectful. But this is not in any way worse than the usual case of someone talking to employees of a company and getting them to reveal secrets that they're not supposed to talk about.

And that is on the employee's hands, not the journalists. Austin and Patrick have good points. This isn't a case where the guys giving the demo are like "here's the part where we had 20 people working on without pay to get it done for e3" "and over here on the wall is a racist joke about black people we would ask you not to talk about till later", the demo is just blasé stuff about the game. It's ALSO doesn't contain anything that consumers need to know beforehand that's like "so when we release this game, we hope to garner great sales for this buggy ass product, and in less than a year's time release a more concrete 1.0 product for all the non super fans to buy".

There was nothing that happened in this demo that a journalist can record to "shed light on" anything of any important. That's why it is worthless outside of anything but a stunt.

Avatar image for ares42
#41 Edited by Ares42 (4094 posts) -

@vortextk: Again, how is this different than the Fallout 76 leaks ?
https://www.giantbomb.com/forums/cyberpunk-2077-8441/strange-debate-over-the-cyberpunk-audi-leak-1838253/
www.giantbomb.com
crawl=CC-MAIN-2018-43
181845
application/http; msgtype=response
sha1:IYROQZ42VRD2ROHBUETOXGVBBC75NN5B
<urn:uuid:3cfef0a1-1177-4ea7-a4a6-2a621d490ef1>
2018-10-21T04:56:38Z
64.30.228.82
text/html
sha1:H27LOGXP5J3MRWFXKG5NVFDHQU6MIMVE
<urn:uuid:8e055b7e-e8b2-4766-ae7a-e843c7df9e10>
https://www.giantbomb.com/forums/cyberpunk-2077-8441/strange-debate-over-the-cyberpunk-audi-leak-1838253/
response
<urn:uuid:65890beb-fc67-4848-8642-af3a7559007d>
isPartOf: CC-MAIN-2018-43
publisher: Common Crawl
description: Wide crawl of the web for October 2018
operator: Common Crawl Admin (info@commoncrawl.org)
hostname: ip-10-179-45-39.ec2.internal
software: Apache Nutch 1.15 (modified, https://github.com/commoncrawl/nutch/)
robots: checked via crawler-commons 0.11-SNAPSHOT (https://github.com/crawler-commons/crawler-commons)
format: WARC File Format 1.1
conformsTo: http://iipc.github.io/warc-specifications/specifications/warc-format/warc-1.1/