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Old 2012-08-04, 17:50   Link #1
Triple_R
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Standardize the SAO Episodic Rating System.

I recently noticed that SAO Episode Polls uses very slightly different language than that of other anime subforum episode polls.

The language is...

10 out of 10: Near Perfect
9 out of 10 : Excellent
8 out of 10 : Very Good
7 out of 10 : Good
6 out of 10 : Average
5 out of 10 : Below Average
4 out of 10 : Poor.
3 out of 10 : Bad
2 out of 10 : Very Bad
1 out of 10 : Torturous


This strikes me as an improvement on the current format of...

Perfect 10
9 out of 10 : Excellent
8 out of 10 : Very Good
7 out of 10 : Good
6 out of 10 : Average
5 out of 10 : Below Average
4 out of 10 : Poor
3 out of 10 : Bad
2 out of 10 : Very Bad
1 out of 10 : Painful


It's only a slight change, mind you, but I think "Torturous" has a stronger and more fitting Oomph! than "Painful" (for those who thinks an episode was so bad it actually deserves a "1"), and I also think that many members here rate episodes a 10 even when they don't think it was a downright perfect episode.

So why not standardize the SAO rating system for all episodic/series based rating systems on Anime Suki subforums?
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Old 2012-08-04, 18:29   Link #2
Dr. Casey
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"Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 25 (1 members and 24 guests)"

Jesus Christ.

I support this idea, though. Torturous does indeed seem much stronger and more fitting as the lowest score, and 'Near Perfect' might convince some people who never vote 10 because 'there's no such thing as perfection' that it's okay to vote a 10 on these polls. (I've always disagreed with this philosophy - nobody said 10 has to mean absolutely perfect, 1 doesn't mean that something is absolutely devoid of any good points whatsoever after all, and it seems a bit pointless to me to make a point in a rating system forbidden from ever being used - but that's just me.)
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Old 2012-08-04, 20:44   Link #3
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
1 doesn't mean that something is absolutely devoid of any good points whatsoever after all
Then why the need for a stronger description? I think "painful" is a fitting enough description for a 1/10.

EDIT:

My own suggestion would be a simpler scale:

Good
Decent
Bad

But if people want the full 10 scales:

Excellent
Great
Very Good
Good
Average
Below Average
Poor
Bad
Very Bad
Awful

Last edited by monster; 2012-08-04 at 21:23.
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Old 2012-08-04, 21:17   Link #4
Dr. Casey
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I didn't mean to say that painful is insufficient in any way, just that torturous does have more style and flair to it.

Aside from that though, Triple_R is my bro so I'd probably back up his proposals even if he had the worst idea in the history of AnimeSuki.
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Old 2012-08-04, 21:22   Link #5
monster
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I just thought it's a bit strange to tone down the high end of the scale and at the same time make the low end of the scale more extreme.

Anyway, I edited my first post with my own suggestions.
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Old 2012-08-05, 03:05   Link #6
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Then why the need for a stronger description? I think "painful" is a fitting enough description for a 1/10.
Let's face it, when people vote an episode 1 out of 10 they are insulting the episode. If you're going to insult an episode, you might as well have some style and flair to it like "That was torturous..." (imagine Simon Cowell saying that for full dramatic effect ).

But mainly, I think changing 10 from "perfect" to "near perfect" would much better reflect how often people here vote things 10 out of 10. I can believe the occasional anime episode actually being flawless... but it's not that common.

"10 out of 10" votes basically mean "It gave me maximum satisfaction!". That's not necessarily the same as "Perfect". But "Near perfect" is probably close enough to it.
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Old 2012-08-05, 15:48   Link #7
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The "painful" is also misleading for more than a few voters who mistakenly vote "1" for a tearjerker episode when they meant a "10" for how much it affected them.
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Old 2012-08-05, 23:15   Link #8
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Personally, I'd stick another rating in between the "average" and "good" ratings, but I realize that most people are not going to rate "average" as being a "5" so that's not going to work.
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Old 2012-08-05, 23:36   Link #9
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If there's a Common Standard that a lot of sites use... I'm not against the idea as such. They're really just arbitrary labels. I have series I loved to death that I only rated 7 or 8 and will readily admit I rarely give below a 6 because I usually drop the series if it is worse than that.
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Old 2012-08-06, 00:07   Link #10
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Honestly, I'm still not really sure if there's much point in rating an episode. Do you take a book and rate every chapter? Sure, anime airs weekly, but most episodes are not designed to stand on their own, but to connect to the rest of the series. So any rating you do in your head should really be in the context of everything that came before. So personally what I think is more relevant is "What is your overall opinion about this show so far?" and "How did this episode influence your overall opinion (if at all)?" Of course, that's impossible to capture in a single poll.

That perhaps aside, if I could do whatever I wanted with the ratings, I guess I'd probably do something more like:

+2 - Enjoyed Greatly
+1 - Enjoyed Somewhat
0 - Neutral/Mixed Feelings
-1 - Disliked Somewhat
-2 - Disliked Greatly

(You could have more tiers if you want, like "+3 - Among the most enjoyable", and "-3 - Among the least enjoyable".)

I think the "out of 10" scale has too much baggage. A +/- scale is easier to get everyone literally "centred" on the decision they have to make. And I'd rather talk about "enjoyment" than "critique", because there is no standard for critiquing on a forum like this (some people are "critiquing" and some are just going to go with their gut/feelings anyway). At least if we talk about "enjoyment" it's pretty easy for everyone to quantify, though everyone will have their reasons why (and that's what can be discussed in the thread). If people still want to provide some sort of other rating, they could still do so in their post and define what that means.

Anyway, I'm saying all that mostly to throw something out there. I realize it's a complete departure from what we've done before, so I'm not pushing for it by any means. But just one idea out of many possible. As it stands, I don't usually vote on Episode threads because I think it's both a bit too arbitrary and a bit too narrow a focus.
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Old 2012-08-06, 00:44   Link #11
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Honestly, I'm still not really sure if there's much point in rating an episode.
I actually feel the same way, but I have no issue with it either.

I also like your focus on enjoyment, although I would still do away with the numbers and just have the descriptive words.

Last edited by monster; 2012-08-06 at 01:29. Reason: missing letter
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Old 2012-08-06, 01:18   Link #12
Daniel E.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
I also like your focus on enjoyment, although I would still do way with the numbers and just have the descriptive words.
I agree, the numbers tend to draw too much attention and can sometimes become the topic of the discussion itself.
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Old 2012-08-06, 01:27   Link #13
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If we did go with such a scale, I agree that the numbers probably are unnecessary because the words make it clear what the "neutral" point is, and it's just a matter of degrees above or below.
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Old 2012-08-06, 01:42   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
I also like your focus on enjoyment, although I would still do away with the numbers and just have the descriptive words.
Agree and also lessen the choices to at least five. For example:

Excellent
Good
Fair
Bad
Awful

Less choices, the faster the decision making.
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Old 2012-08-06, 04:29   Link #15
Archon_Wing
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I very much prefer letter grades, A B C D F, and if we wanted to be cool, pluses and minuses. (But this would just make it the same as the 1-10 scale-- D and F really don't need +/- and A+ is unneeded too, unless it's ebay. )

However, in reality, this doesn't really matter, since "average" tends to be viewed as mediocre, and thus most episodes simply aren't going to have an average rating of 6 unless you have a bunch of masochists following it. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find any poll that averages towards that. Though this is because discerning a 4 from a 2 is well... not needed. You weren't happy anyways.

The other thing is I'd expect most people to ignore the descriptors and insert whatever the hell they want. Which is fine really. I don't follow it either. In fact, none of my episode ratings from different series are consistent-- I have a different mindset when watching different kinds of shows.
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Old 2012-08-06, 05:06   Link #16
monster
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Here is another simple three-option scale:

Enjoyable
Mixed Feeling
Not Enjoyable

I think it also avoids a possible "average = mediocre" issue.
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Old 2012-08-06, 05:43   Link #17
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I propose a simple system:

A. Like
B. Dislike
C. I wandered into that part of the internet again didn't I.....

Oh yeah, that's every other site now isn't it.

Honestly polling only has as much stock as you put into it. I tend to look at them as fluff, since I'm far more interested in what people say and not what arbitrary rank they assign out of preselected choices.

I also don't read much into perfect 10's either. Arguing about something being perfect is pointless. Even an incredibly flawed work in one persons eyes can be perfect in another. Two people who both think something is perfect may disagree about what those perfect things are.

Universal agreement is not required nor should it be expected.

I have no issue with messing around with poll options to make them more playful, but I won't endorse any attempt at making them a serious part of any episode thread.
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Old 2012-08-06, 06:22   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Here is another simple three-option scale:

Enjoyable
Mixed Feeling
Not Enjoyable

I think it also avoids a possible "average = mediocre" issue.

Maybe, its better

Good
Fair
Bad

It's simpler.... Its easier to understand since these three are the common words people use to answer when ask for their opinion of a particular anime.
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Old 2012-08-06, 06:38   Link #19
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post

I have no issue with messing around with poll options to make them more playful, but I won't endorse any attempt at making them a serious part of any episode thread.
But they already are a serious part of episode threads.

When an episode gets over 50% 10s, or an unusually high percentage of lower ratings, people do tend to notice that and many will comment on it in the episode thread itself, at least in my experience. And this is done both by people who love the episode, and those who didn't (or those who simply didn't think it was that exceptional).

My point is if you were to change the wording for 10s from "perfect" to "near perfect", I think this would lead to people taking the ratings less seriously than they already do, which seems to be what a lot of people commenting on this thread want anyway.


Also, the main reason I suggested this particular wording format is that you're already using this wording format for the SAO episode/series rating system, so presumably you think this wording format is at least worth testing out. I'm just saying "Nice alternations for the rating system. Good job there. I think it might be a good idea to apply those alterations throughout AS as a whole".

That doesn't preclude more widespread changes to the rating system later on down the line, of course.
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Old 2012-08-06, 09:07   Link #20
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I

It's only a slight change, mind you, but I think "Torturous" has a stronger and more fitting Oomph! than "Painful" (for those who thinks an episode was so bad it actually deserves a "1"), and I also think that many members here rate episodes a 10 even when they don't think it was a downright perfect episode.

So why not standardize the SAO rating system for all episodic/series based rating systems on Anime Suki subforums?
I should clarify something, this is my own set of poll options mostly derived from creating multiple threads for Naruto Shippuden. I felt this criteria best described my and my fellow Naruto-fans feelings for the series at the time (though, for a time I raffled off the lowest scoring option every week just to add some brevity to the insufferable filler arcs ("Torturous" in turn became an easy way to describe many episodes, and I've always been of the opinion that "Perfect" is an awful critical term for any discussion.)). I then took this basic layout to other sub-forums when I created their weekly thread (anyone that visits the Gundam sub-forum can see this in the weekly episode discussion).

In no way was this supposed to reflect Animesuki's overall strategy for poll options, it was simply my own approach to the polls.

That being said, I do prefer 10 options per poll. I used to break down the points out of 100 (91-100 = Near Perfect (though sometimes I went with 91-99 just to clarify the point), 41-50 = Below Average, 0-10 = Torturous, etc), but some found this confusing, so I stay with the 10 point system now. Overall, though, the 10 option system allows for greater degree of criticism (or at least a symbolic expression of your criticism).

Last edited by james0246; 2012-08-06 at 12:27.
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