Career Officer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 840
# 81
03-18-2013, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptvanor View Post
If Gene was still alive he'd be cheering for the ticket sales that JJ brought to ST. This idea that somehow Gene was more interested in the purity of ST then the money is absurd.
No sheet - I never said Gene didn't like $$$. It's mainly the viewers/fanbase that are interested in canon purity. But Gene did like creative control over his property, which is where the whole "you can't do this and the characters can't act that way", aka canon, comes from.

As for the Quasi-Cannon, when can I buy that from the Zen Store?

Last edited by gfreeman98; 03-18-2013 at 02:46 PM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,124
# 82
03-18-2013, 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfreeman98 View Post
No sheet - I never said Gene didn't like $$$. It's mainly the viewers/fanbase that are interested in canon purity. But Gene did like creative control over his property, which is where the whole "you can't do this and the characters can't act that way", aka canon, comes from.

As for the Quasi-Cannon, when I can I buy that from the Zen Store?
Good thing he sold his property so he could only worry about the money.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,572
# 83
03-18-2013, 02:48 PM
Quote:
What do you think?
For me it'd be:

canon:
TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, ST I-X, JJ-Movie,

soft-canon:
Books from the makers of ST (e.g. Okudas Tech Manuals, Encyclopedia etc...), production notes, ST:TAS,

non-canon:
any novel, computer game (incl. STO), calendar, web-page, fan-made series etc...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 141
# 84
03-18-2013, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
...once you throw stories taking place in alternate realities into the mix, what is canon gets scrambled. The issue then becomes what is canon for a particular reality.
To be honest I hate this alternate reality crap, it's like story telling written by tax lawyers.
I am grateful for the threads that link JJverse, (including Countdown and obviously Spock Prime), with everything that came before, because they could have not done anything at all to bridge realities.

I don't like, however, the notion of endless copies of characters, (or real people for that matter), in an infinite number of realities. It cheapens the uniqueness of an individuals life-soul.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,196
# 85
03-19-2013, 05:38 AM
Canon:
TOS,TNG,DS9,VOY,ENT,Movies1-10, some technical manuals (if they make sense, unlike the DS9 manual).

Soft Canon:
JJ movies, TAS, behind the production stuff

Non Canon:
Computer games, novels, fanfic, STO



STO HAD the chance to become canon.
But sadly, most of the time Cryptics devs don't seem to understand even the most basic things about Star Trek, so they disqualify themselves over and over again.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

Last edited by yreodred; 03-19-2013 at 05:49 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,786
# 86
03-19-2013, 05:45 AM
Hmmm, I am of the view that anything on screen is canon. Anything else is soft canon.

As for STO, pre f2p was soft canon, post f2p = bottom of the barrel not even remotely canon

Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
The stick Cryptic keep bringing out isn't to discourage you from playing, its to discourage you from playing incorrectly. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 141
# 87
03-21-2013, 09:31 AM
Since every official Trek film-story is considered to be canon and this Star Trek lore continues to be expanded upon with new theatrical films, Star Trek Online should likewise be considered canon because of the fact that it is an ever-changing MMO.

Books, (including reference materials), comic-books, and video games that fit with the official story-continuity of Star Trek, (even if some additional plausible explanations are necessary such as the "alternate timeline/universe" label), should at least be considered as soft canon.

I believe very strongly, however, that Star Trek Online (STO) should be considered CANON. Why? Because it is an updateable video game. The very nature of an MMO is that it is a living, breathing, ever-growing immersive experience. Today's announcement of Legacy of Romulus is a fantastic example of this fact. Unlike stories told in a printed format, the STO storyline can always be adjusted as needed to be in line with official canon.

The fact that, during the initial development of STO, the devs were informed before the release of Star Trek 2009 that Romulus would be destroyed in the Prime Timeline, in order for adjustments to be made with STO accordingly, is strong evidence to support the idea of STO being canon. What new information has already been shared with the STO devs regarding Star Trek Into Darkness? Even if a new Star Trek television series is developed for next year...STO would be able to adjust its story, if necessary, to always be in line with the films and television series.

Star Trek Online IS CANON!

Last edited by alanburch; 03-21-2013 at 09:35 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 127
# 88
03-21-2013, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Canon:
TOS,TNG,DS9,VOY,ENT,Movies1-10, some technical manuals (if they make sense, unlike the DS9 manual).

Soft Canon:
JJ movies, TAS, behind the production stuff

Non Canon:
Computer games, novels, fanfic, STO



STO HAD the chance to become canon.
But sadly, most of the time Cryptics devs don't seem to understand even the most basic things about Star Trek, so they disqualify themselves over and over again.
I'm in agreement of this!

apart from the dig at cryptic devs, some of them may know a lot more about "canon" and lore than most people here but it's not exactly up to them what gets put in sadly.

plus, if it was you...wouldn't you want more ?$?$?$?$ than some nerds moaning about a fictional universe we all love trek, but we all love money more.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 841
# 89
03-22-2013, 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Canon:
TOS,TNG,DS9,VOY,ENT,Movies1-10, some technical manuals (if they make sense, unlike the DS9 manual).

Soft Canon:
JJ movies, TAS, behind the production stuff

Non Canon:
Computer games, novels, fanfic, STO



STO HAD the chance to become canon.
But sadly, most of the time Cryptics devs don't seem to understand even the most basic things about Star Trek, so they disqualify themselves over and over again.
I would agree with this.

The problem with JJTrek and STV is that they contradict established material so egregiously that it becomes impossible to rationalize how it fits into the established story of Star Trek as a whole.

It would be like Tolkien starting the Lord of the Rings that Frodo took the ring from Gollum, when it was already established that it was Bilbo that did it. It breaks the narrative.
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?t=1108521
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,196
# 90
03-24-2013, 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabuboria View Post
I'm in agreement of this!

apart from the dig at cryptic devs, some of them may know a lot more about "canon" and lore than most people here but it's not exactly up to them what gets put in sadly.

plus, if it was you...wouldn't you want more ?$?$?$?$ than some nerds moaning about a fictional universe we all love trek, but we all love money more.
Just speak for yourself.
They make their money with that fictional universe, so i (the nerd) expect that universe to be professionally made by them, which isn't the case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelmarik View Post
I would agree with this.

The problem with JJTrek and STV is that they contradict established material so egregiously that it becomes impossible to rationalize how it fits into the established story of Star Trek as a whole.

It would be like Tolkien starting the Lord of the Rings that Frodo took the ring from Gollum, when it was already established that it was Bilbo that did it. It breaks the narrative.
That's why i consider it "soft" canon. Everything that contradict with "hard" canon doesnt apply.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
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