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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    The eredar were in the army prior to him being defeated on Azeroth.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I was talking about an old god vs titan and how many if it took more than one to beat an old god. Creating planets has nothing to do with it.
    The old gods die if the titans destroy the planet, and the planet dies if the titans destroy the old gods, the titans can easily destroy Azeroth and the old gods, infact they can do it in less than a heartbeat, as my previous quotes from Algalon the observer has stated... Do people not read anymore?

    To imprisson an old god is another matter ofcourse and well to kill one old god and imprisson the rest one (1) Titan fell.. and it does not even say if it died or just went out of a combatative state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    you can't kill an old god. Sargeras is a titan. Old gods > titans
    You can, if you are a titan. The blizzard developers have said themselves that Y'Shaarj is dead and dead for real. He is dead and killed by the titans, The titans could have done it in an easier way but they wanted to spare Azeroth. And they found out when they killed Y'Shaarj that the death of an old god corrupts the land badly and the death of all old gods would result in the destruction of the planet. They choose to imprisson the rest, for the sake of Azeroth, not because of lack of power.



    Blizzars has made the titans the most powerfull beings in the universe, they create planets with their powers, they create order. The fallen Titan has the power to corrupt entire species and boost their powers to the unimagiable. (Kil'jaeden and archimonde to name a few)
    Last edited by Aiidan; 2013-08-21 at 09:43 PM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiidan View Post
    The old gods die if the titans destroy the planet, and the planet dies if the titans destroy the old gods, the titans can easily destroy Azeroth and the old gods, infact they can do it in less than a heartbeat, as my previous quotes from Algalon the observer has stated... Do people not read anymore?

    To imprisson an old god is another matter ofcourse and well to kill one old god and imprisson the rest one (1) Titan fell.. and it does not even say if it died or just went out of a combatative state.
    Yes, the Titans can clearly destroy planets and build them, but that heartbeat thing was clearly hyperbolic speech. It took the Titans ages to craft Azeroth. It took so long that they didn't even bother waiting around for it to happen and left their constructs to do the work.

    Also, the Titans killed more than just the one. It was confirmed by Kosak that the Titans killed Y'Shaarj and others.
    Originally Posted by Dave Kosak
    What are some of the larger implications that will come into play for having a dead Old God on Pandaria, if any, and is there a chance we might get to see some form of its body?
    I'm not going to answer if we're going to see his body or not. But sort of the Old God is a lot of this negative energy that has become the Sha that still haunts and pollutes this land. Ramifications... Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

    RPG is non-canon by default. (MickyNeilson)

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Yes, the Titans can clearly destroy planets and build them, but that heartbeat thing was clearly hyperbolic speech. It took the Titans ages to craft Azeroth. It took so long that they didn't even bother waiting around for it to happen and left their constructs to do the work.

    Also, the Titans killed more than just the one. It was confirmed by Kosak that the Titans killed Y'Shaarj and others.
    Originally Posted by Dave Kosak
    What are some of the larger implications that will come into play for having a dead Old God on Pandaria, if any, and is there a chance we might get to see some form of its body?
    I'm not going to answer if we're going to see his body or not. But sort of the Old God is a lot of this negative energy that has become the Sha that still haunts and pollutes this land. Ramifications... Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed. (Source)
    Algalon is a being made out of math, he does not do such things as hyperbolic speeches.

    The blue quote thou is clearly nice to see and read, spotlights the power of the titans even more.
    They left their creations to do the polishing on the world, not the crafting of the planet, fauna, seas ect,ect.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    you can't kill an old god. Sargeras is a titan. Old gods > titans


    Dave Kosak, Lead Quests Designer, says Old Gods CAN die. Skip to 16:45~. I take his word for it over fanboyism.
    Last edited by Shadowygoodness; 2013-08-21 at 10:09 PM.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiidan View Post
    Algalon is a being made out of math, he does not do such things as hyperbolic speeches.

    The blue quote thou is clearly nice to see and read, spotlights the power of the titans even more.
    They left their creations to do the polishing on the world, not the crafting of the planet, fauna, seas ect,ect.
    Archivum System says: The decomposition of the planet and its living organisms into base elements: metals, rocks, gases. This is followed by a period of reconstitution of each element into the original planetary blueprint.

    "Period of reconstitution" makes it sound longer than a heartbeat. If it's so fast, why even call it a "period"?

    Finishing touches is a nice theory, except Tribunal of Ages says the earthen were there from the beginning and that Azeroth was still in the early stages of development when the Old Gods came.

    Abedneum yells: Accessing prehistoric data... retrieved. In the beginning earthen were created to--
    Brann Bronzebeard yells: Right, right... I know that the earthen were made of stone to shape the deep reaches o' the world. But what about the anomalies? Matrix non-stabilizing and whatnot.
    Abedneum yells: Accessing. In the early stages of its development cycle Azeroth suffered infection by parasitic, necrophotic symbiotes.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-21 at 10:06 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

    RPG is non-canon by default. (MickyNeilson)

  6. #106
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    Everything would be dead.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I just didn't remember any eredar being present during the WotA, it was all handled by Mannoroth.
    Archimonde was definitely there; he killed Malorne.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Archimonde was definitely there; he killed Malorne.
    Oh, yea. That battle where they were thundering around with earthquakes and shit.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

    RPG is non-canon by default. (MickyNeilson)

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Yes, the Titans can clearly destroy planets and build them, but that heartbeat thing was clearly hyperbolic speech.
    I would say the creating life part is definitely hyperbolic as evidenced by how long it took to shape Azeroth; however, I wouldn't say destroying a planet instantaneously would be beyond their scope. In the short story about Velen released this past year, Velen has a vision that culminates with an eredar empowering a spell that obliterates a planet (presumably Kil'jaedan given the power display). With this in mind, I would say if KJ can do it, then the titans can do it.

  10. #110
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    We don't actually have anything to argue about seeing as we say almost the same things but with different words.
    The titans created servants when they were working on shaping their world yes, the creating and shaping of the planets and worlds takes longer than the obliterating and razing, yes.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Source?
    Also I'm pretty sure if the Titans could have destroyed Y'shaarj completely, they would have.
    Actually found the Dave Kosack quote. Took me half a day to find it, mostly because I forgot, but hey, here it is! Lot's of dead Old Gods.
    Also just spotted that someone above me has posted the full video >_< Still, this addresses you directly so it's all good
    Originally Posted by Dave Kosack
    Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed.
    Last edited by UnifiedDivide; 2013-08-21 at 11:04 PM.

    Sometimes updated...

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by British Bulldog View Post
    What would had happened if Sargeras went through the portal and freed the Old Gods? Would the Old Gods make Sargeras beg for mercy or would they underestimate him? or would they
    he wouldnt have stepped through the portal. they would have.

    had illidans spell worked it wouldve redirected the portal so that the old gods could come out of their prison.

    sargeras would be stuck on whatever planet he was on
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzlee View Post
    And where exactly does it say that the titans are the most powerful beings in the universe?

    And that if Kil'jaedan enters Azeroth its game over?

    And Sargeras entering Azeroth is equal to the sun entering earths atmosphere?

    In the novel The Sundering, it is hinted that the Old Gods are more powerful than the Titans, including even Sargeras. It is said that they are extremely powerful and that the combined might of many Titans are required to subdue them. It is also stated that if they are freed, even Sargeras will plead for peace of death. This is further supported by their statement that little effort is needed to destroy Sargeras and turn his Burning Legion into their minions.

    from: http://www.wowwiki.com/Old_Gods
    Thats cool and all, but lets be realistic, Blizzard will very likely retcon this. Unlikely anything, but Sargeras will be the ultimate Villain, and he will be stronger than anything we have encountered yet, including old gods. Either he will be stronger as them to begin with, or he will raise in strenght by other means, Pantheon Titans have the knowledge to destroy planetary systems for god's sake. >.> Blizzard just tends to use iconic villains to use them in their games. Old gods cannot provide this. Its eaiser to do this with something that got a humanoid form in a way, like having a detailed face to show expressions at least. Also if the old gods would be really all that powerful, they would be freed long ago...and not a stone will be left standing. That company recton the lore all the time to their needs and it will happen again. We got 2 old god encounters and none of them was too powerful and the endboss of a xpack or vanilla, so something is very wrong with that statement.

  14. #114
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    I'm pretty sure the Burning Legion could defeat the Old Gods, ESPECIALLY if Sargeras would have had Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde with him mopping things up. The Old Gods on Azeroth are just that: On Azeroth. The Burning Legion controls entire worlds; they'd be able to stream in more troops than the Old Gods could hope to muster, especially with the Portal completely functional.

    As for the "Old Gods could take Sargeras..." be aware that "Krasus speculating" is not a basis for anything; he's not omniscient. I remember there also being speculation that it would take all the Dragon Aspects to defeat Sargeras... they were barely able to defeat Deathwing.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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    Words to live by.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzlee View Post
    if Sargeras freed the old gods though, then they would most likely be at full power.

    The 'small raid of us mortal races' defeated them at a mere fraction of their true power.
    We defeated them, they might had only a fraction of their power. But they still had the wisdom of aeons and still lost. Strange, huh?

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    The Old Gods certainly considered themselves superior to him during the first invasion. Of course we killed two of them and some of their strongest servants, since then. But during the war of the ancients, they certainly felt that all of them together could surely defeat a single Titan, in the Well of Eternity trilogy. Whether it's true is unknown. It took a Pantheon of Titans to take down the Old Gods. It's possible Sargeras has gained enough power to match the whole Titan Pantheon since his fall.
    The Old Gods still consider themselves superior to Sargeras.

    In the War of the Ancients trilogy they were hoping Sargeras would be succesfully summoned into Azeroth so the destruction he would cause would free them from their prisons. Then they would torture Sargeras and make him beg for mercy. This book hasn't been retconned, since we get further clues in the expansions.

    I just did Mechanar a few days ago, the end boss is a servant of C'thun (I think because of the model) and he states that the Old Gods' forces are as endless as the stars themselves, and that nobody can defeat them, "not even the mighty Legion". Yes, they directly say that.

    Then in Wrath in the dungeon Ahn'Kahet the Old Kingdom the end boss Herald Volazj says that the Old Gods are neither living nor dead, they are outside the cycle. Meaning that you can't truly kill them, since they're not even technically alive in the first place. The Old Gods you kill in game might just be a physical part of their eternal existance that eventually regenerates.

    Yogg-saron is the Old God of Death, and upon slaying him he says that you just did exactly as he planned. Surely he can't be truly dead if you just helped him with his plan. He's outside the cycle, and perhaps by slaying him you just made sure he could escape his prison and regenerate somewhere else.

    All in all, I think the Old Gods are far superior to Sargeras. Heck, did you guys see what 1 Old God did to empower Deathwing? They made him practically unstoppable. Nozdormu had to betray his creator by forsaking his oath to not disturb the timelines, but he has to do it as it is the only way to stop Deathwing. The Dragon Soul is an incredibly powerful artifact, it's the one weapon that even the Burning Legion feared. And who made it? Deathwing did, but the suggestion came from the Old Gods. But Deathwing at the time of Cataclysm is even stronger than the Dragon Soul itself, that's why only such an insanely powerful artifact had a small chance of defeating him.

    Now, we know from the books that Broxigar with an enchanted axe was able to even slightly hurt Sargeras. What would an Old God powered Deathwing be capable of? Well, I honestly don't think he could win against Sargeras, but surely he should be able to inflict more pain than one Orc. Heck, he might even get Sargeras bruised.

    So what does that say about the Old Gods themselves? imo it means they can take on Sargeras. The game so far hasn't contradicted the War of the Ancients books, so I consider it canon. Just because the players kill the Old Gods' physical form, doesn't mean they actually kill the entity. They regenerate eventually, as their existance doesn't necessarily need a physical body. Heck, even Y'shaarj is dead. But when Garrosh gives the heart water it starts to live again, it regenerates and starts to speak again. They can always regenerate.

    TL;DR: Old Gods > Sargeras (unless it gets retconned, which imo hasn't happened yet)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    We defeated them, they might had only a fraction of their power. But they still had the wisdom of aeons and still lost. Strange, huh?
    They didn't lose, the players did exactly as the Old Gods planned. By killing their physical bodies the players probably ensured their freedom.
    That's my take on things.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    As for the "Old Gods could take Sargeras..." be aware that "Krasus speculating" is not a basis for anything; he's not omniscient. I remember there also being speculation that it would take all the Dragon Aspects to defeat Sargeras... they were barely able to defeat Deathwing.
    Clearly Thrall was dragging them down.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

    RPG is non-canon by default. (MickyNeilson)

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by British Bulldog View Post
    Would the Old Gods make Sargeras beg for mercy
    No. This is just shitty book lore. The Old Gods are nothing compared to Sargeras.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  19. #119
    Sargeras would never intentionally free the Old Gods. They got Deathwing to forge the Demon Soul (now Dragon Soul), and was going to use it to get Sargeras to free them without his knowledge. But it never came to pass thanks to Malfurion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    He'd come out the other side.



    Sometimes.
    The Old gods just kind of flail around breaking anything they can, they're like a four year old hopped up on sugar-laced crack. Chaos incarnate.



    He'd certainly win a a round of fisticuffs.
    But I think in terms of actual "power" the Old Gods are probably stronger. They're able to corrupt and unmake the Titan's work, and the Titans seem to be rather unable to successfully contain them... And Sargeras is a Titan after all, albeit a strong one. So I think Sarggie could beat them up, but if you put an old god and the dark titan in a room, eventually he'd gone insane and start listening to the voices.
    The old Gods are FAR stronger then Sargeras in terms of everything. They are even stronger then the Titans. It takes several Titans to bring down 1 Old God. They manage to kill Y'Shaarj but lost one of their own in the process.
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  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    As for the "Old Gods could take Sargeras..." be aware that "Krasus speculating" is not a basis for anything; he's not omniscient.
    Well, according to Knaak a time traveling Orc once stabbed Sargeras in the foot (pssst ripoff of Fingolfin's attack on Morgoth in the Silmarillion).

    The book lore is out of date, and was garbage to begin with, so I think we can safely ignore it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

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