SWRPF Archive Forum reforms: Seeking input!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Role Playing Archive' started by NaboosPrincess, Dec 1, 2005.

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  1. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    My feeling on that sort of thing is that we can't force anybody to read the Training thread or take part in the Adoptions program. Everyone has a different style of RPing and one or two threads like that are okay, as long as they don't make up the majority of threads in the forum.

    Plus, it's not totally spamming, since they are contributing to the storyline of the game...even if the posts are short.
  2. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    I need to go to bed soon, so I'll just add one comment about the Council thingie. I'm unsure whether or not we need to use a specific voting model, because there aren't any specific projects and things the Council will be doing. Rather, it seems more of a community based thing, which would indicate discussion was more important rather than decrees and the like.

    Even in NP's own model of what the Council would focus on, there's nothing in there that necessitates a need for formalized positions and voting. I really think that all of its duties can be handled by community input, though it would be nice to have some members that are associated with keeping the place going and putting forth discussion. Maybe NP's proposed group of people, however many we decide on, could do that rather than monopolize a voting process?
  3. Kartanym Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    hhmmm ... not just for newcomers then. Ok, I think I can run with that ;)

    This idea does interest me though. Especially in terms of having multiple threads for certain key areas. It has been done before, in part, but certainly not to this extent.

    Voting on a council ... somehow I see it as more suggestions from everyone interested on who's the most respectable players here to be a part of the team, not specifically a general vote with nominations, etc. I also think NP should make any final decisions on who she would appreciate working with her to improve the forum. As it is, I can see some obvious choices here already.
  4. LadyZaraMarta Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2004
    star 5
    If the idea of a council was accepted and approved, perhaps the members should not be allowed to succeed themselves. In other words 1 term of however long, ( 6 months -1 year) and then a new round be elected, allowing for fresh ideas.

    Whatever is decided upon, the simpler the rules the more people would want to participate.


  5. Darth_Vaders_cousin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2004
    star 5
    I hate to disagree with you LadyMara, but the problem with that Idea is that, A. we don't have that many active RPers for the 2003 and Before catagories, and B. It's all about public choice. If we, the public, choose to re-elect someone, that IS our choice, If we feel that we need fresh people and fresh idea's, we elect a new person, but to throw out the WHOLE council after a term doesn't seem practical to me.
  6. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Not only that, but it'd lead us into what caused the Roman Republic to fall--talented individuals weren't allowed to carry over their experiences because new people had constantly been shuffled in. Anyone, new and old, would benefit from the experience they've had in the Council (or anything, for that matter), and so if they were re-elected (or appointed, or however we end up doing it) then they'd be able to better use the new experience they've gained.
  7. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    It looks like we still need to hammer out exactly what the Council would do and how it would do it. I'm not sure if these comments about "voting" refer to voting for the members or to the members having a vote on issues once they are part of the Council (or both).

    I believe we must have a decent number of people officially appointed to the Council to ensure continued discussion and participation. Community input will be welcome (similar to the EUS) but I fear nothing will get done unless we have some people who have been chosen and who have committed to keeping the thing running. My model of 30 was assuming a more rigid Council structure similar to the EUS. If people prefer a more relaxed structure with more input from the general community, then 15 council members is fine.

    So why this weird feeling on voting to appoint members to the council? Because I could just pick them all and save you guys the trouble. :p I don't know how else to fairly choose council members aside from these two options.

    As far as voting within the Council goes, I am fine with having official, 72-hour-long, majority-rules votes when the members are presented with an issue. If this seems too rigid, then what about a different system, wherein the members do their best to come to a consensus on any given issue. In the event that no consensus is possible, the council members of each "side" in a given debate get together and each side sends a single PM to the moderator(s) with their recommendation.
  8. Darth_Vaders_cousin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2004
    star 5
    I think, before we even decide what exactly the Council is responsible for, we need to decide if there WILL be a council.

    It seems the general opinion is that it is a good Idea.

    Now, we need to decide what the council will do exactly.

    We decided on running Adoptions. What else? Running the Flagship RPG?

    Now, once we have decided exactly what the council is going to do, we can decide on voting and structuring. It's pointless to decide on structure before deciding what we are doing...
  9. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    There will be a council, and I've outlined the major duties in one of my posts above:

    The council would be in charge of managing the Adoptions System, modifying/running the RPF Awards, and dealing with inter-thread issues or animosity, similar to the EU Senate. Once we have a council, they can work on forming committees to deal with these different things, or however they want to handle it.

    The council will not be in charge of (but may possibly offer input/advice on) forum rules and regulations, non-Star Wars games, and certain specific user issues like bans, etc. I feel it is best to keep these areas under moderator control, especially with such a large council.
  10. YoungAngus Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2005
    star 5
    I'm glad to see we are having a council. NP, have you decided on the 'Flagship RP'? I would really like to see that, and want it to be confirmed by you before I get my hopes up.
  11. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    I'm not going to worry about the flagship RPG yet because, even if we do it, it won't be for a little while. IBoP hasn't even ended yet. The idea is a good one but it's a low priority right now. I'd prefer to get the Council up and running, so they can help revamp the Adoptions program, so we'll have the framework in place to support a new forum or flagship RPG or any other major project. If we go forward with these big projects (like a new forum) without strong support systems, I don't think they will reach their full potential.
  12. DarkSithDrew Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 4
    I am all for this idea. For one it seems at least 1/4 of my RP's are non Star Wars; I know that I, as well as many others like to explore with RPing outside of the Star Wars realm.

    I have searched on other sites for roleplaying forums that do not involve all or any Star Wars. But I quickly give up looking for other sites because they lack the general greatness that this forum holds, as well as the great people.

    Also it would be more organized, as there wouldn't be a mix of Star Wars/Non-Star Wars.

    The last thing I can think of, is that it might encourage people to be more creative, perhaps even drawing some non-RPing forum users to this neck of the woods.

    I hope to see this done, excellent idea.
  13. Darth_Vaders_cousin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2004
    star 5
    Ok, now that thats all clear to me :p

    In my eyes, we could run it like a less formal EUS. I see no problem with the way the EUS is currently run except that it focuses too much of formalities and internal issues. I recall that the last few months I was on the senate (though this could have changed now) we spent all the time disscussing changes to the constitution.

    Yes, we need to keep an eye on our internal issues, but they should take a back seat to the RPF's issues. I think it should be run more like an open discussion between "Council Members" and users ending in which the Council votes (need there be a vote) on the issue, wieghing the opinions of the many users.
  14. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    To clarify: I was referring to internalized voting on issues or what not. I don't mind one way or the other how the official custodians of the thread are selected, whether it be via votes or appointment. My only issue is on the actual function of the Council and the role the community plays. It's clear that there need to be some people to maintain an agenda and keep the thing running, as I said earlier.
  15. milney Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2003
    star 5
    I have a few concerns about the adoptions program being given to the proposed council:

    1. Myself, Handmaiden_Yane and Kartanym have worked hard on building the program, would we just have it taken from us and handed to a group of people who aren't as experienced in managing the program?

    2. The adoptions list and adoptions related material is maintained in an off JC forum, which stores the list in the same format as the JC, allowing the three previously mentioned members the ability to access and edit the list at any time, no matter where they are around the world. Would I need to give every member of the council access to edit the list aswell?

    3. In regards to in-activity, I'll admit that I have had times where I cannot update the list, due to real world commitments, but is the answer to solve this giving the program from two co-ordinators and an assistant (3 people) to a group of 30 people, some of whom (no offense intended here) may have only just joined the forum or who may currently be adopted?

    And to those who feel that I am being defensive about losing control of this, I am not doing thi for my ego. I am genuinely concerned about the well being of the Adoptions program, just as NaboosPrincess is genuinely concerned about the well being of the RPF as a whole.
  16. Darth_Vaders_cousin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2004
    star 5
    I'd like to remind you that more active members and memebers who help around the forum are more likely to be elected to council...so the odds of you being elected to the council are pretty good, considering the work you do. I'd also like you to note that you three could very well be put on a Adoptions Commitee, even if you aren't on the council, and remport on the adoptions activities to the Council.

    I don't think the Council is going to forget those who did such great work on the Adoptions Program...but will bring in fresh ideas to get the Adoptions program used more.
  17. milney Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2003
    star 5
    I understand the process for the elections.

    But I was raising my concerns for the instance that the three of us did NOT get elected to the council.
  18. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    milney, I greatly appreciate the work that you, Kart, and Yane have done with the Adoptions program. However I do feel the need to point out that it has not been as successful as we had hoped. Updates are rare when one would think, with three coordinators, they would be able to happen far more often. One of your coordinators does not even post in this forum any more.

    No one is trying to take anything away from you guys, but I think it is time to move in a new direction. Putting Adoptions under the control of the Council will allow for a constant dialogue. It will ensure updates and increase user participation. My hope is that the Council will be able to work with you guys, perhaps making you advisors, or integrating you in some capacity. I am sure we will need to rely on your experience during the transition.

    With regards to how the list is maintained: it should never have been on an off-board site to begin with. The solution is not to give all members of the council access to the list-- the solution is to move it back here where it belongs. Obviously our PM system is a little flawed in not allowing the translation of markup codes from PM to post, but there are ways to get around it, such as requesting moderator help, or exchanging lists via AIM or email.
  19. milney Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2003
    star 5
    However I do feel the need to point out that it has not been as successful as we had hoped. Updates are rare when one would think, with three coordinators, they would be able to happen far more often. One of your coordinators does not even post in this forum any more.

    I will agree with that, the lack of updates began when I announced I was working overseas, I've only recently began to have more online time (And the previous update was in September from memory). I'll admit that it hasn't been as successful as I'd hoped.

    Putting Adoptions under the control of the Council will allow for a constant dialogue. It will ensure updates and increase user participation. My hope is that the Council will be able to work with you guys, perhaps making you advisors, or integrating you in some capacity. I am sure we will need to rely on your experience during the transition.

    I'll agree that putting control of it under the council could greatly benefit the program, but I'll just make this comment: The problems that currently face the program culd face it under the new regime aswell. It would benefit the entire RPF to have this supported in this fashion, but there problems could still be there.

    With regards to how the list is maintained: it should never have been on an off-board site to begin with. The solution is not to give all members of the council access to the list-- the solution is to move it back here where it belongs. Obviously our PM system is a little flawed in not allowing the translation of markup codes from PM to post, but there are ways to get around it, such as requesting moderator help, or exchanging lists via AIM or email.

    This is where I have to slap my forehead and say D'oh [face_doh] When we began the program, we never actually though about sending the list in that way. I think it was because the onilne version allowed either co-ordinator the ability to change the listings when the other wasn't online and we could see an instant preview of it. Sending a file through AIM or the like is alot easier though.

    Like I said before, this has great potential and my concerns weren't due to my ego. I'm more than happy to see the transition to the new way of administrating the program. I just wanted my concerns raised.

    Besides, we all have to let our padawans become Jedi, don't we ;)
  20. Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2001
    star 6
    Don't worry milney, you'd have my vote. ;)




























    (at a price.... )
  21. milney Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2003
    star 5
    How about the fact that I'm an Aussie PoT?
  22. Kartanym Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    Put me on the chopping block. I promised to help with the adoptions, tried my best to start with. But various things got in the way. In reality, my work in there was minimal at best. Not really sure why I should get noticed for it when it was Milney's work. Still, I think under a council it might have better luck developing then it has so far. It's something I think really does need to be there in some capacity.
  23. DarthIntegral VIP

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 8
    What if we expanded the scope of the adoptions program? We could keep the program as it is, and add onto it. Let me give an example to show what I'm talking about.

    We continue to have a voluntary newbie/oldbie (or whatever you want to call it) adoption program, for those players who recognize they need help / could offer help to somone willing to take it, and it continues with an RPG dedicated to those teams.

    Then, we branch that out, because not everyone is going to sign-up for the program, and not everyone who signs up is going to find a good match. We establish 2-5 "skill refining" threads, where players can come in and work on a specific skill that is used in RPing. From combat, to charachter development, to flying, etc ... there are many types of skills that could be refined, and some natural combinations to have in those threads. Then, we could have some of our exceptional players "GMing" that thread (so to speak) and offering advice and critiquing the players, being encouraging at all time to help build them up.

    This would, I think, improve the quality of gaming, the success of the adoptions program, and the new player / experienced player relationships. For an example of this (and not a great one, because we don't RP in there, but still, you can see how it might work), check out the recent posts in the community thread (I think that's the one I'm working on), which has basically been hijacked into a GM skill refining thread.
  24. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    Some great ideas here-- let's keep them in mind for when the time comes to discuss the Adoptions program. Does anyone have anything else to say on the subject of the Council? I would like to start preliminary prep work by this weekend if possible.
  25. SkyeLightrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 6
    While I think the council is a great idea, there is a serious problem with how to pick members.

    If it's done by vote, then it's not really who is best for the RPF, it's whoever is favored by the majority, who IMHO don't know what they want. It becomes a popularity contest.

    If the Moddess just picks, it's favoritism by the Moderators

    Unfortunately there is no real way to pick the Council members fairly. Almost every system will have plenty of people going "why wasn't I chosen?" or "why wasn't so-and-so chosen?"

    I dunno, maybe there's a way to vote by way of competence and skill?
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