Forum:Who's staying?

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Note: This topic has been unedited for 1489 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not add to unless it really needs a response.

Just a form to sort this out with.

Put an asterisk (*) and your name ({{|U|Yournamehere}}) below if you are staying primarily on this site. If you are flipping between sites like myself, and scanning over edits to see if they should also be on the other site, then you aren't obliged to add yourself.

Thanks. A (Fallen Reich)23:07 6 January 2013

Is there a duplicate forum on the other site asking the same question? --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 11:25, January 11, 2013 (UTC)
I don't think so. --Mn-z 15:18, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Your names under here

  • Mnbvcxz --Mn-z 14:01, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • PuppyOnTheRadio I was going to bounce between the two sites. I was happy for both of them to be successful, and saw no reason why they had to compete. I had significant issues relating to the motivation behind the fork, and I didn't want content that I had been predominantly instrumental in providing to be used on the new site. Of course today the Wikia based site was attacked by a vandal who understood this site well, knew the way the site worked, and could throw together a script designed to make maximum damage to this site. That kind of vandalism would only be done by someone with a gripe against the site. Given it has hit here, but left the fork untouched, that indicates it's someone instrumental in moving over to the other site, and technically minded enough to do that, and has a personal gripe against Wikia. Which narrows the list of people who could do this - and would do this - but not hit the fork - down to less than half a dozen.
That suggests the motivation behind the creation of the site was both personal and political. Given that my main reason for not wanting to support the fork was my distrust of the stated intentions - and true colours are shining through in less than a fortnight after the fork - there is now little to no chance that I will be contributing there.                               Puppy's talk page10:07 12 Jan
Yes, people who are completely in over their heads in terms of how to operate a server are over here wasting time vandalizing. Yes. And trolls at ED have no experience with MediaWiki, so it can't possibly be them. Yes. That makes all the sense in the world. Please have everyone who moved banned from Wikia. Yes. Good call. I love you, Puppy, but what you just said was the height of dickishness. Considering that you're a 37-year-old person, could you, in the future, please consider the things that you write before you say them? Or are you just completely lacking a filter between your keyboard and your brain? ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usSat, Jan 12 '13 14:12 (UTC)
Oh boy, please do tell us who on uncyclopedia.co performed this attack bearing in mind Mike the Great is actually an ED admin. ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) Icons-flag-au 10:45, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
The only thing I know Frosty is that you are an admin at Encyclopedia Dramatica as Oblique. This you admitted to last year in the first 2011 VFS forum. --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 11:32, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
Hmm I made the move simply because Wikia seemed an irritating host to me, most notably for the content warning, which appears to be an immovable object. I think both sites will suffer if the contributors are split, I really would have liked it if everyone had jumped ship but maybe it's inevitable that it won't work like that . What is for sure is that the more energy we devote to vandalism and sniping, the less fun both sites will be. If the Wikia site is down for 20 minutes, people aren't going to come running over to the other site and vice versa. It's a complete waste of time, and will only serve to make people take sides. Puppy, I hope you revise your opinion and play on both sides of the tracks, that seems a really nice happy medium to me. If the vandal was someone from the new site, that's lame, and it wasn't done in all our names. --Leverage (talk) 11:39, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
Calm heads must prevail. There is no proof that anybody closely associated with any uncyclopedia site had anything to do with the vandalism. Coding expertise is not limited to those who've edited here long term, and this dick may be the first of many. Like sharks circling, vandals hear that the site has been left and want a piece of the tasty bits. I was just at wikipedia and noticed a category they have which protects articles against being moved. Could that help? I hope, Puppy, that you change your mind, innocent until proven dick (and say it was a new-site guy, I point the finger at Sog, who should be stripped of his Hall of Shame membership for doing what he just did - nobody else there probably knew about it). I commend Frosty for helping with the vandal clean-up (is it done?), and would hope that lots of people at .co want to protect this site and see it go into a state similar to Uncyclopedia is almost full. I will, of course, continue to hang out on both sites, and I think everyone should imnho. Aleister 11:45 12-1-'13
I understood the fork was a choice. Some go, some stay, some work both sides of the street and others sleep soundly. --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 12:37, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
An admin could make (and apparently has) a checkuser request to Sannse. That would prove if the vandals had the same IP address as anyone in the Free Uncyclopedia community. --Mn-z 13:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
I have asked Sannse to check on what happened last night. That's all, no finger pointing. --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 15:19, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
I assure you those behind the vandalism were not Uncyclopedians involved in the move and that Frosty had nothing to do with it. Consider this an official statement if you'd like, not that I officially speak for anyone, at least not that I know of. I believe BB also very effectively summed up the matter in terms of practicality. -— Lyrithya 19:12, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
Sog, no doubt in my mind. Strip him of his features, is what I'd do. And yeah, check user is a good idea /walks slow, then runs away
Means, motive, opportunity. I agree with BB in that others have the means to do this. The opportunity to do this is open to everyone. The motive is the sticking point. If you had an issue with Uncyclopedia, then it makes no sense to ignore the fork completely and just concentrate on the Wikia hosted site. Given that those who split the community to the fork have been bending over backwards to say that the community has “moved”, if you had a beef with the community, wouldn't you go where the community has gone to? Especially knowing that the technical support on the forked site is done by About three amateurs, and it's a bug ridden nightmare. If you wanted to trash Uncyc, than only an idiot would attack here and ignore elsewhere. Check user will show is the IP address of the person who did the vandalism - and if you're clever enough to be able to create that script then putting up a dummy IP won't be difficult. There are other possibilities, of course, but short of a smoking gun then I'll use Occam's razor to determine the most likely vandal.                               Puppy's talk page10:07 12 Jan
Hmm, maybe because en.uncyclopedia.co has more than one admin who is awake at any one time? NO, THAT CAN'T BE IT. Must've been Uncyclopedians. Yeah, screw those guys. ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usSat, Jan 12 '13 23:46 (UTC)
I guess I have to be some kind of adult here from time to time, which is boring and takes time away from important things. But Puppy, go boy, go and sign up at Uncyclopedia, which has saved your account and did a damn good job in saving your pages from some kind of tantrum. That site is us, everyone, duh. You could put up the mother in hell page and probably get it featured, at least I'd vote for it - that night was so much fun, one of the best I've had here. Romartus too, please, everyone sign up, you too msnbc, you are turning out to be a hell of a writer and I am very impressed. Welcome back. But everyone, Uncyclopedia is our home, that other site is home, dudes. But everyone there should haul ass back here once in awhile and help out with some of the admin at Uncyclopedia. This site, right here, is going to be uncyclopedia's search engine destination for a long time. New people will come here, hundreds if not thousands of them (wikia won't let us look at the site traffic numbers, WTF is that?), and they will see the best face of uncyclopedia we can give them while directing them in no uncertain terms if they're bright enough to catch it, where the site is that will be the most interesting form of uncyclopedia. This place has to shine like it always has, lights on and working. But telling them to go to the other site, duh, best of both worlds? This is our home too. So please, stop it, I need to do other things and write some stuff. Apology if I talked too much like I'm ordering people to do things, but someone has to do that for at least a few minutes or this place could fucking fall apart. Aleister 1:05 13-1-'13
  • Puppy, your comments here show an amazing level of ignorance, and frankly I am shocked to learn how low your opinion of your fellow Uncyclopedians is. What happened to "assume good faith"? From what I saw of the vandalism (haven't been around very much since school started) it looks like standard uncreative page move vandalism. All of us who worked hard to move the site did so with the best of intentions and a deep rooted love for the community, and I know none of us would turn around and do something petty and destructive like this. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 02:10, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

I've got to put another interpretation out there... if it was our unmentionable and yet strangely cute neighbors over on ED, then vandalizing just one of the two versions of Uncyclopedia would be one way to increase tension and drama between the two, and so (as I understand they call them) "teh lolz". In which case, this forum is yummy. -- sannse@fandom (talk) 00:54, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's "teh lulz". But OK. ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usTue, Jan 15 '13 1:23 (UTC)
Sanse...we all know it was you. Now fess up or we will all start spanking you...and NOT in the way that you oh so love! --ShabiDOO 03:02, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, it was that damn Sanse. Thank goodness no one thinks it might be me -- sannse@fandom (talk) 20:45, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
I still think Sanse is actually a sockpuppet of Sansse. (And my phone apparently autocorrects sockpuppet as sick puppy.)                               Puppy's talk page11:03 15 Jan
Your phone knows....... -- sannse@fandom (talk) 21:04, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Mordillo's missing in action explained

Just uncovered: A Wikia administrator, Nicky (left), was taped talking to Mordillo (right) in 2011, which explains why he is no longer here to help us through this crisis of ownership. File footage courtesy of Aleister:

A month further down the track

Mike the Great is an active member of the community on the fork and is working - in part - to improve the site there. Bizzeebeever has been banned from this site for overtly advertising the fork. Almost every admin who said try would work across both sites has been absent from here for around a month. Hotadmin4u69 added advertising into out nav tools that directs to the fork. Zombiebaron threw a tantrum when he was not quick enough to make Chief into a 'crat, and then decided that having a user that had been banned on the fork become an admin here would be funny. Lyrithya has completely turned her back on this site, and now (surprise!) Illogicopedia is looking at moving onto the servers she controls. The structure behind the site, any form of statement that shows that the community retain control, details of this mysterious NFP that every is aware that Lyrithya has established but nobody knows the details, and any deeper understanding of the financial structure of the fork are still hidden.

I'm still looking for evidence of this “good faith”. So far, no luck.                               Puppy's talk page10:44 24 Feb 2013

If you want answers to these question, then go and start a forum on the fork and ask those questions. And ask them in a non-confrontational, non-argumentative, non-essay-format, non-assuming, non-polarising way but friendly, good-faith-like and amicably...with simple and direct questions. There's no reason the answers will be hidden if you do. --ShabiDOO 02:52, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
I've asked the questions in forum here prior to the move. I've asked them on talk pages there several times. I've emailed individual users. I've even tried to create a rapport with Lyrithya. All of this has failed. If there was nothing to hide, and we were working on an open basis (the definition of a wiki community) then the questions would have been answered when I first asked in early January. I've gone down the polite route, the non-confrontational route, the direct route, the indirect route and the confrontational route. I wrote the above as I have given up asking.                               Puppy's talk page03:13 25 Feb 2013
Maybe I could ask some of the questions for you then, Pup. I haven't alienated myself from the fork yet by requesting that all my content be removed, which did seem like a bad faith move at the time, whatever your reason for it. Nor do I plan to request that my content be removed, no matter what happens. If they choose to profit off a couple of my edits, that is their business and their legal problem since the license is cc by sa, which specifies noncommercial use. Not that I could afford a lawyer either, nor am I the sort to go suing everybody in sight, but someone else might down the line, which could hold serious problems for that site. Here, we are protected by Wikia's legal team. I will start by asking some of the questions I had myself about the fork and how it is run financially and see what happens, since I am "on call" for tomorrow (which means I have the day off unless they call me in to work) and for Tuesday. I will try not to be too "essay-like", but I would like answers, too. -- Simsilikesims(♀GUN) Talk here. 03:47, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
The fork is currently entirely being funded by people who were involved in the forking process. To the best of my knowledge that includes a sizable contribution out of Lyrithya's own pockets. The Uncyc store and a donation system have both been set up to fund hosting. And that's everything. I'm surprised that anybody thinks a profit could even be made off of Uncyclopedia. It doesn't exactly attract the general audience that has a bunch of money knocking around. Just because you don't like the way things were done does not mean something insidious is going on. I know these people and I know that they're not capable of something like that, not to mention I've been present and watching pretty much the entire process for the better part of a year to a year and a half. I assume that's the only reason I was invited to participate, because I haven't contributed anything in a technical perspective. I've seen absolutely nothing relating to making a profit off of Uncyclopedia. I thought that these accusations had been put to rest, honestly. I don't know what to do to convince you otherwise. There's very little to discuss. Uncyclopedia is not in the interest of making a profit. It is in the interest of making enough money to be Uncyclopedia, and nothing else. I probably shouldn't even be dignifying the accusations with a response, but if people are this ridiculously misinformed I'd prefer for that to be righted. -RAHB 06:10, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
I also don't see what the use was at all in bringing up all of that petty wiki-war nonsense, or Mike the Great's contributions that, as you've mentioned, have been in an entirely positive vein. Seems like you're grasping at straws here just to discredit the fork. I didn't expect anything less, but it's still disappointing to see. -RAHB 06:13, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
Mike the Great actively vandalised this site. I stated at the time it was someone at the “new” Uncyclopedia who was doing it. Now, he is actively contributing at the “new” Uncyclopedia. And nobody seems to have any problems with him vandalising this site. In days gone past if someone from here actively vandalised ED, they be permabanned. The fact that he hasn't been suggests that vandalising this site is considered fair game by the admins of that site. Which given most of them have completely abandoned here, is hardly surprising.
As for your half answer relating to the funding of the other site - if it's an openly run community actually sharing the details of incorporation of an NFP organisation behind the site should be made public. At the moment you've said “As far as I know…”, which is the most complete an answer anyone has been able to give.                               Puppy's talk page08:55 25 Feb 2013
It does seem pretty retarded that this mike guy is given free reign on the other wiki, especially seeing how his recent edits there are also strange and somewhat disruptive. Though that's about the only thing I'd agree with you on. --ShabiDOO 09:35, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
Don't get me wrong - I want the new site to be a successful wiki. But given the financial concern, I'm afraid it won't be. And I'm not about to pay for the privilege of adding quality content to the site, or for content I submit to line someone else's pockets. Hence for me to submit any substantial content there, I need to know who claims ownership of the domain, and as a result who retains control over the content. And I'm too cynical - or maybe not naive enough - to trust the unsubstantiated word of someone I know online. $1500 per annum is well in excess of what is required to host this site via the services I know. Unfortunately, the services I know are hosted in Australia, which creates a very different - and much more restrictive - legal position. But the cost difference is a ratio of (roughly) 1:3.                               Puppy's talk page09:47 25 Feb 2013
Given how quiet both sites are, I think the possibility of a) making money or b) being sued is laughable. What is certain is that expending any energy on inter-wiki battles is ludicrous. This is not Facebook vs MySpace.
I have seen Puppy reaching out to people on the new fork, but my impression is that there is too much fraught history between the users, of which I am happily ignorant, for there to be constructive conversation. My approach with any user who takes a bad attitude to me is simply to ignore them, because I am here to have fun. That would be my advice Pup. Contribute to the fork if you want, don't if you don't want, and ignore anyone who isn't treating you nicely. Leverage (talk) 11:40, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
Far as I know (yes, I know that's not the response you're looking for) Lyrithya is in ownership of the domain as well as the rights to usage of the server. I'll ask her if she'd clarify if you'd like. What sorts of documentation are you looking for, exactly? -RAHB 20:46, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
Also, yes, I certainly haven't been as active here as I said I would. Mainly because, as it turns out, administrating two of the same wiki is actually rather confusing. Also most of the maintenance seems to be taken care of usually by the time I check on it. I've been checking this version every day, however. Obviously I've taken to editing the fork more, because that is the version I'm most invested in, and as I've said before, if this is an issue at all please tell me whether the community would feel it best I be de-opped. -RAHB 20:51, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
Looking at the financial statements of the fork, they do indeed appear to be nonprofit, and running in the red right now. The Server costs about double what I thought it was costing. You can see my questions to the fork here, as well as the answers from Hotadmin4u69: [1] I didn't ask about ownership of the domain, but it appears that the Uncyclomedia Foundation is running the fork, and I assume the site admins at the fork are basically running that. RAHB, I consider you welcome here, even if you cannot be here as often as you used to be, and I would hate to see you deopped. -- Simsilikesims(♀GUN) Talk here. 21:51, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
Why would you be deopped, RAHB? You are an intregal part of uncyclopedia, which now has two connected islands to play on. It's all working out fine, and as long as this one stays strong the other one is stronger. And vica versa. It seems obvious to me, we are legion. In fact, let's make more, more uncyclopedia's hahahahaha more, make more!!!!!, hahahahahaha, etc. Aleister 00:11 26-2-'13
PurpleDickVote For more Uncyclopedias! -RAHB 02:36, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

To answer POTR's question about Mike the Great, he is active on the fork because:

  • He quit ED ([2])
  • He's fucking great at Wikis and I really say it is ED's loss in this case. He gave us a fucking welcome bot, does the odd helpful edit and is a friendly dude on IRC.
  • He can do whatever he wants because he was not banned from the fork. I suppose one could argue him attacking the fork is suspicious, but then again most ED modivated vandalism is because you constantly feed, perhaps even force feed trolls forums like this full of baseless paranoia and to stir people that do this up, to other people is funny.
  • If people vandalized ED, yeah they'd be permabanned from ED but not Uncyc. Sure they'd get some manner of lecture about how it's bad but the forks admins aren't going to babysit every person who feels like vandalizing a wiki for their own amusement. It is not their job.

That is all. ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) Icons-flag-au 06:34, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

As for your thing about being active on both sites, I frankly cannot be arsed to hold a really active presence on two uncyclopedias, ED, illogicopedia and whatever other wikis i am on, whilst balancing my life IRL. I have absolutely no obligation to be here if I don't want to. Frankly I dislike this sites style of administration, giving out really long ban lengths to newbies who have no idea what they are doing. ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) Icons-flag-au 06:37, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
Actually, Frosty, we have given permabans in the past for cross wiki vandalism. Including vandalising ED. I have no concern with someone being active on multiple wikis. But the concern was that those that were admins here turning a blind eye to it. It implicitly suggests trolls have been given carte blanche here. As for you deciding not be present here after you asked to be given back the status you chose to drop here, and then leaving the site in almost every way… well, it's suggests a tantrum followed by a whining capitulation, and then a further tantrum. And your statement above suggests you are quite happy to have any user vandalise here. Which means that you obviously have no concern if I go on a rampage of vandalism at the fork. After all, you aren't going to babysit me.
How can it be a baseless paranoia when you keep feeding me with reasons to not trust your motivations toward this site?                               Puppy's talk page09:36 26 Feb 2013
Ah, two Aussies in a throwdown, my money on the best 'roo puncher. Frosty, it's always nice to see you come by here and help in the cleanup and votes and all. Hopefully Mike the Great has learned a lesson and respects this wiki a little more, and if you say he is contributing well after qutting ED, that's cool (unless he vandalizes one or the other site again). And have you seen Puppy's very good "warning label" which we voted to replace the present page? (and why isn't it up by the way? - Puzzled in Angorra) Aleister 10:33 26-2-'13
More light - less heat. --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 17:34, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the Fork's tax exempt status

The fork claims to be organized as a 501(C)7 Social and Recreation Club. However,according to the IRS, to have such a a status, the club must, "The club must provide an opportunity for personal contact among members, and membership must be limited." The "limited membership" restriction is to prevent organizations that offer services to the general public from organizing as a non-profit.

Claiming every anonymous person who happens upon a humor website as a "member" is as far from from limited membership as one can get. Additionally, there is no opportunity for "personal contact" between members.

Furthermore, "advertising" is considered a "nontraditional business activity". 501(C)7 Social and Recreation Clubs can loose their tax exempt status if they engage in "nontraditional business activities" that "are not incidental, trivial or nonrecurrent."

Finally, who is in charge of the "Uncyclomedia Foundation," and is it actually a thing? From UnMeta's creation until, March 2006 until this January, UnMeta had as much to do with running ANY English language Uncyclopedia as the court of Charles Edward Stuart had to do with running the government of Great Britain. Simmie mentioned it, so it is not impossible that she confused whatever super-secret non-profit runs the Fork with UnMeta.

My question is, what is the name of the non-profit running the fork, and who are on its board of directors, and how would one get on the official membership list? Did someone actually create a non-profit, or is somebody assuming that the Fork gets automatic non-profit status without filling out the required paperwork. --Mn-z 14:42, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

The IRS, you say? "Tell them to go fuck themselves." I'd like to hear the opinion of Spike, a man who took months off from Uncyclopedia to campaign for Ron Paul. -- Kip > Talk Works Puzzle Potato Dry Brush CUN Icons-flag-us 11:05, Feb. 27, 2013
I think Spike's response would be that we exist in the real world, not in own fantasy land, and as such, we must deal with people, institutions, laws, and rules we don't particularly like.
However, Spike's opinion of the IRS and not relevant to my issue. Despite what some people think, the mysterious leadership of the fork is attempted to obey real-world laws and act like adults, as far as I can tell. However, it does seem that they don't fully know what they are doing. Or, maybe the fork is actually ran by a raving sociopathic anarchist, who actually intends to tell the FBI and IRS to "go fuck themselves" and Lyrithya's supposed ownership of the site is a ploy meant to mislead law enforcement. --Mn-z 20:22, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
Sociopathic anarchy? Where do I sign up?
Although that does also lead me to the question of what capacity the servers have. Given that there has been talk of other wikis going on to the same servers, does this mean that whatever funding will be going towards hosting capacity for numerous wikis?                               Puppy's talk page01:38 28 Feb 2013
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