Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-23-2012, 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazapsky
The Federation is getting walloped on all available fronts by numerous factions and subfactions. Starfleet can't afford to hang onto "ideals" if they want the interstellar nation they're protecting to survive to 2410.

For the record, those same "ideals" were repeatedly demonstrated to be downright foolhardy in Bashir's heyday as well, he's just too naive to pick up on it.
And that was the WORST failing of the writers of this game, sure there will be wars or fighting there always is. But lets take into account the writers have actually went out of their way to not only dredge up old races that said they were leaving, but made others evil who were not.

Plotdevice 8472 said they wanted nothing more to do with regular space and returned home.
Picard pretty well set it in motion that the Iconians were not really evil, especially not as evil as this fail story line makes them.
The fact that the house of Duras was not ran into the ground in this universe like others is actually pretty sad.
The mirror universe empire was GONE and enslaved a very short time ago, where in hell did all these new ships come from?

Why did every single species have to be set in at war at once? It was such a waste, the longevity of the game would have been far better served to string them along at a much more intelligent pace.

The Borg return especially should not have happened until at least season 3, the KDF war could have wrapped up with season 2 and then the quadrant kind of went back to a quasi state of piece only to have the Borg fly out of transwarp conduits by the thousands and ripped the whole local area to shreds and everyone has to fight back together, much more logical and dramatic storyline.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-23-2012, 03:16 PM
I've said it before: If the Federation cannot survive without S31 doing its dirty deeds behind the scenes, then it needs to acknowledge that its ideals have failed and should turn as dog-eat-dog and every-being-for-itself and screw-you-I-got-mine as every other starfaring nation in the galaxy seems to be.

If S31 is actually accomplishing its goals of keeping the Federation afloat by violating its ideals, then it is wasting energy in trying to keep up that facade and would better expend its energy trying to get the Federation to acknowledge that those ideals have failed. Better to convince the core members to throw out the charter, militarize the Starfleet, fortify the borders, take over and occupy what resources it needs, and crush any and all internal opposition to Federation policies as quickly and ruthlessly as possible to prevent insurrection. It shouldn't be too hard; the core membership is safely in the central hundred or so sectors, and there is a considerable buffer territory between the Federation core worlds and other galactic powers. That would mean a number of colonies and client members would probably be steamrolled in case of an invasion or retaliation, but that's the price they pay for being on the fringes and for the chance to be a more major member.

Of course at some point the core members would have to re-evaluate their stances towards one another. Naturally, the core members have the most well-developed and more resource-rich worlds, in addition to stockpiles of resources. A majority of Starfleet appears to be Human so that will certainly help. Presumably the Vulcans and the Humans will remain fairly closely allied since they're apparently traditional allies (but that's no sure thing after what we've seen in Enterprise.) However, I get the impression that the Andorians will probably start to remember old enmities with the Vulcans, and the Tellarites will have to take sides in that -- at first, probably with the Andorians to maintain a balance of power against the Human-Vulcan bloc. If the Tellarites are smart, they'll later ally themselves suddenly and quickly with the Human-Vulcan bloc and help crush the inevitable Andorian insurrection. This would probably earn them a solid place at the ruling table unless their backstabbing of the Andorians is seen by the Humans and Vulcans as evidence of untrustworthiness. They'll have to be watched carefully, there's no telling if they'll try to pull that again.

Of course during this time there will be insurrections throughout Federation space, mostly from minor members who have lost some prestige with the casting off of the old, failed ideals -- they're now no longer equal members, after all. Fortunately, a few General Order Twenty-Fours should put them back in place. Since, after all, by then the Klingons, Romulans, and Breen are going to start feeling frisky, and with the diminished presence in the frontiers of Federation space are going to find the resources to be found there quite attractive. The Klingons will probably be a little surprised at the change in their old on-again off-again allies, and the Khitomer Accords -- reworded into a mutual non-aggression pact -- will probably stand for a time. That'll last about as long as it takes a new Chancellor to come to power and decide the Federation no longer cares about its fringes and frontiers.

The Cardassians, seeing this happening, are now in a bad position: Their big brother and protector has now gone all Central Command on them. Very likely Starfleet will be giving very stern warnings to the Cardassians to not take this opportunity to rearm themselves. Wether the Cardassians listen to these warnings or not probably depends on how big a presence Starfleet maintains at DS9, the wormhole, and Bajor. I'd imagine a fleet would be stationed at DS9 and Bajor would be occupied; the wormhole is too strategic, and even though they new leaders of the Federation are enlightened and have no truck with its outdated ideals, they do know that the quadrant is in no state to oppose the Dominion if the Founders decided to abrogate the Treaty of Cardassia. They'll have to be delt with at some point anyway, so best to let the Founders think that the Treaty will still be adhered to by the Federation... at least for now.

As for the Romulans, the first action of the Starfleet -- once the internal insurrections and rebellions have died down or been killed -- would probably be to crush them once and for all. They're in no condition to resist but have every reason to rebuild and become a threat. That cannot be allowed to happen. Of course the Federation doesn't have the forces to completely occupy the Romulans. Maybe the Klingons would be willing to join in. And if the Klingons are sufficiently weakened by the fighting, maybe they should be the next target. Have to keep those borders secure, after all.

Wow, that looks suspiciously like the Mirror Universe. You know, the guys who are considered objectively evil.

QX, this was kind of extrapolation as to what would happen. Actually getting the Fed to cast aside every precept and declaration in the charter would be next to impossible as it is. The thing is, I keep hearing that the Feds should 'give up their ideals in time of war' and I'm not quite sure that the full import of what that would entail has been considered.

ETA: Ugh... sorry for the wall o'text. I'll try to stop doing that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-23-2012, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobservo
So, in other words, Starfleet's current motto is "We come in peace... Shoot to kill, shoot to kill."
Flashbacks of Mars Attacks, lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-23-2012, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
I've said it before: If the Federation cannot survive without S31 doing its dirty deeds behind the scenes, then it needs to acknowledge that its ideals have failed and should turn as dog-eat-dog and every-being-for-itself and screw-you-I-got-mine as every other starfaring nation in the galaxy seems to be.

(Snipped)
It is high time the overall image of what the Federation is supposed to be stopped suffering because of the shallow writing of this game
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-23-2012, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
"But it makes you wonder, doesn't it? Are humans really any different than Cardassians or Romulans? If push comes to shove, if something disastrous happens to the Federation, if we are frightened enough, or desperate enough, how would we react? Would we stay true to our ideals?"

-Dr. Bashir, speaking to Sisko in the SF ghetto of 2020s on Earth. Episode: Past Tense, part 1.

Let's say that this episode concluded with another transporter accident that took Bashir to the year of 2409, as seen in Star Trek Online. What would he say? How would he react? Does this universe and the actions of humanity "stay true to our ideals?" Why or why not?
i think his first question would be;

"So this is what the Alpha Quadrant has been reduced to? Chaos and destruction everywhere! While Starfleet admirals plot for more wars and yet more death! If this is truely the future of Starfleet, i want no part of it. Doesn't the hippocratic oath mean anything to anyone anymore?"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-23-2012, 03:59 PM
speaking of images suffering, can anyone explain to me why so many of the posts in this thread talk like the STO feds sent warships out to peoples front doors? Correct me if I am wrong but most of these powers directly attacked the federation did they not? Least that is the way I remember it from Beta. The whole Romulan/Reman mess is more complicated of course, but there is always that one story that is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-23-2012, 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C_Carmichael View Post
I stand corrected!

And yes, Kinsey should have been shanghai'd in the middle of Goa'uld space.

Boy I hated that guy.

Him and Colonel Maybourne both.
I really didn't mind Maybourne that much even though he was a pain. Ba'al and De Lancie's character were impossible not to like though.
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