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Postby TheOrglingLlama » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:44 pm

mconnell wrote:llamas make better lovers!


Of course ! :mrgreen:
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Postby Castlereagh » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:06 pm

Lolli wrote:
Aaron Johnson wrote:
Or are you going to instead lock / delete this thread?


I have personally locked no threads.


Impressive solidarity.


Normal rule of management is to present a unified face and never show dissent outward after making a decision.
Another one is to not backstab others in same management group by undermining their decisions.


What about making passive aggressive comments to your managers when you disagree with them? As a manager myself I would not stand for that, personally.
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Postby butitsadryheat » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:21 pm

Apparently there were some (group of users? Advertisers? chief elf?) that had the final say, but Aaron couldn't/wouldn't discuss it further.
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Postby Bob Burd » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:23 pm

Lolli wrote:
Aaron Johnson wrote:
Or are you going to instead lock / delete this thread?


I have personally locked no threads.


Impressive solidarity.


Normal rule of management is to present a unified face and never show dissent outward after making a decision.
Another one is to not backstab others in same management group by undermining their decisions.


Well, none of us claimed to be "normal". :)

I could make a similar statement, "I have banned no one since PnP was removed." (true, btw)
That doesn't mean I disagree with the bannings that were done. And I didn't take Aaron's statement as a backstab in any sense. I believe he stated previously that he supported steps taken by other elves. Undoubtedly we have different styles, I think that is to be expected. But we all have what we believe are SP's best interests in mind and more importantly, trust each other to have that same regard.
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Postby TheOrglingLlama » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:25 pm

patssox09 wrote:As a manager myself


A Japanese company and an American company decided to have a canoe race on
the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak
performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile. The Americans, very discouraged
and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat.

A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and
recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had eight
people rowing and one person steering, while the American team had eight
people steering and one person rowing.

So American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large
amount of money for a second opinion. They advised that too many people were
steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

To prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management
structure was totally reorganized to four steering supervisors, three area
steering superintendents and one assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the one
person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the
"Rowing Team Quality First Program", with meetings, dinners and free pens
for the rower.

There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment,
extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles. Humiliated, the American
management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a
new canoe, sold the paddles and cancelled all capital investments for new
equipment.

The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses, and the
next year's racing team was outsourced to India.

:mrgreen:
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Postby Bob Burd » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:30 pm

butitsadryheat wrote:Apparently there were some (group of users? Advertisers? chief elf?) that had the final say, but Aaron couldn't/wouldn't discuss it further.


None that I'm aware of.
We refer to Gangolf as the Uber Elf because he is better at the mechanics of getting things fixed/changed in SP, but there is no one elf to rule them all.

Advertisers? None of the elves could care an iota about the adverts, and we've never heard from the owners that we should (or even that they do). The ads pay for the server and disk space and that's about it. We laugh when we here people talk about the lost revenue from PnP's demise. Really.

Group of users? Sounds like more wild speculation.
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Postby Gangolf Haub » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:04 pm

Lolli wrote:
Aaron Johnson wrote:
Or are you going to instead lock / delete this thread?


I have personally locked no threads.


Impressive solidarity.


Normal rule of management is to present a unified face and never show dissent outward after making a decision.
Another one is to not backstab others in same management group by undermining their decisions.


Not helpful, Lolli. Not at all. But if you prefer we can team up for once and give you a fair verbal beating. According to true management style of course.

And for the record - I also locked no threads. Actually had to be told how this works by the other guys. So much for über-elf!

Still, I think I should rule them ...
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Postby Castlereagh » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:27 pm

Lolli wrote:
Gangolf Haub wrote:Not helpful, Lolli. Not at all. But if you prefer we can team up for once and give you a fair verbal beating. According to true management style of course.

And for the record - I also locked no threads. Actually had to be told how this works by the other guys. So much for über-elf!

Still, I think I should rule them ...


Actually, you're wrong, it was helpful. I'm sure you're smart enough to see how, if you think about it.
But maybe I instead should have accused you elves of being powerhungry, destroying the site by deleting PnP, make people leave, and... I forgot what else right now. That'd be helpful? :wink:



I think a pretty obvious moral to be drawn from the Decline and Fall of PnP is that two wrongs don't make a right.
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Postby butitsadryheat » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:29 pm

Bob Burd wrote:
butitsadryheat wrote:Apparently there were some (group of users? Advertisers? chief elf?) that had the final say, but Aaron couldn't/wouldn't discuss it further.


Group of users? Sounds like more wild speculation.


I am just referring back to Aaron's response upthread. I asked if users en masse threatened to leave, and he said I was on the right track, but couldn't discuss further. So that isn't the right track? Hmmm. :?
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Postby butitsadryheat » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:42 pm

Lolli wrote:Didn't he mean, that if a group of users wants to leave, so be it? It's up to them?


Not sure. I think he said that in a way, maybe referring to some, but here is his response...

butitsadryheat:
So, the elves were inundated by e-mails and PMs about how some members were extremely bothered by the mere existence of PnP, since it was a climbing site, and it was offensive to them. And they were so bothered, that they may have been threatening to close their accounts with SP, causing the loss of material and beta? So the elves acted?


You're on the right track. I'm not at liberty to add further on this aspect. My apologies.

Now, since the deletion of PnP, there are members who are upset about it, and have threatened to leave SP and take their material and beta with them, and have their accounts deleted, and have now expressed their feeligns here instead of by PM. But now, the elves are basically saying, sorry, but if you must...then go ahead, leave.


I've honored three such requests.


"Not at liberty to discuss." That's what I was referring to, but he also said they can leave if they want, and has granted 3 such requests. The former is what spawned the question and the response to Bob.

Confusing.

Aaron said we have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes, and I agee. We don't, but when asked, it can't be discussed? so it shouldn't be referred to then
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Postby Bob Burd » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:06 pm

butitsadryheat wrote:Aaron said we have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes, and I agee. We don't, but when asked, it can't be discussed? so it shouldn't be referred to then


Sometimes we're a bit melodramatic. I think any truly rational person can guess fairly well what goes on and it isn't very mysterious or all that unknowable. However, if you believe in power-hungry elves and secret cabals and nefarious purposes, there is no limit to what your imagination may conjure up. I've been happy to discuss this stuff with folks who ask, but not a whole lot via the forums. I gave up trying to defend myself from the many accusations years ago. It's an impossible task that never ends. People will believe what they want to believe.
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Postby rhyang » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:10 pm

All jokes aside -- thanks elves for the work you do :)

I wish I were more like .. oops, never mind ;)
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Postby Dave K » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:12 pm

more like .. wrote:All jokes aside -- thanks elves for the work you do :)

I wish I were more like .. oops, never mind ;)


Oh boy...



:lol:
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