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This is the talk page for the article "Kyoshi Warriors".

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This article is currently rated C-class on the Avatar Wiki grading system.

thumb|300pxSince we replaced most of the profile images with season three images, I would like to replace the Kyoshi Warriors image with this one. Water Tribe emblem - Kai - Talk 08:43, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't see the need for it when we already have one similar that depicts the same. ― Thailog 09:01, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Waterkai. We should add a season three or at least a different one than the one being use on "The Warriors of Kyoshi" page. Katara-dobs-c2 - Avatar Junky -Talk 13:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

And on what grounds should we do that? How is this image better and more suitable in light of the fair use doctrine than the current one? ― Thailog 13:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

This one has brighter colors, but Thailog has a point. I mean, why don't we just upload a better quality version of the current image? Vaznock - Talk 14:29, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, maybe this image would be better. The colors are much nicer,and the other one is too bland. I think I'll have to agree with Kai and A.J. Vaznock - Talk 15:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm in total favor of the new one. I don't see your argument, Thailog; you can say the same thing about every vote we had on the main characters. What's the difference here? —Excelsior, The Flash - (Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!) 15:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm in favor of the new image. Not because it is from season three, like Waterkai said. It is of much better quality. I like this one much better than the old one. Mattkenn3 Talk 15:31, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Flash and Matt are right, this is a matter of voting for the one that catches our eyes the most, not the fair use policy, Thailog. Vaznock - Talk 15:32, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Should we just add the image already? I mean, it's five against one. Vaznock - Talk 15:33, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, change it. Why is discussion needed? Every file change doesn't need it's own discussion, anyway. --Energybender 15:37, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Not so fast. Fair use takes precedence over site policy and community consensus. The issue here is not whether one image is prettier than the other. The issue is that we have two images (one older and a newer) that depict the same subject. While one exists, there are no legal grounds to claim the fair use of another, meaning that one of these files is unneeded and non-compliant with fair use law. ― Thailog 16:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. This is a voting process of which image is better. The community has decided, and obviously, no one else seems to think it's a very big issue, not even our administration, and we all think it's about the image that is nicer and more eye catching, and that one takes the cake. So if no one else agrees with you about the fair use policy, it's gonna be implemented. Oh, and community discussions should prevail over this little policy. Vaznock - Talk 16:11, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Plus, we want to make our articles more attractive. Honestly, what will happen to us if we bend that policy a little to make our wiki better? Vaznock - Talk 16:16, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

All this over an image? Looooooong Cat - Talk 16:32, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Not just an image. It's a discussion over whether the fair use policy or our community prevails, and I think it isn't important, and that the better quality image should be added to amke the page look nicer. Period. I mean, it's just swimming in dull images. Vaznock - Talk 16:38, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

"Community discussions should prevail over this little policy"? So five people can disregard a doctrine in United States copyright law every time it's convenient for them? That's absurd and troubling. You are basically saying that if the majority wants you can upload entire episodes of the show, even if it's illegal.
The community or administration's incapacity to understand the issue doesn't invalidate its relevance. You are overlooking the facts because it behooves you right now. You can't just upload every image you like and slap a fair use claim and rationale on it to make its use acceptable. Why bothering doing it at all if we will "bend" it to accommodates whimsies? Oh, and "making pages look nicer" is not a feasible fair use claim. ― Thailog 16:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Look, if we up one extra image to make our wiki look nicer, it's not like we are going to be arrested, fined, or have our wiki be shut down. As long as we use the image legally, we are fine. One image to make a page that looks pretty bad right now a little nicer isn't going to hurt anybody. Vaznock - Talk 16:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah ha, I've got a compromise we'll all (hopefully) be happy with! How about we replace the profile image, then we replace the image of the Kyoshi Warriors in the history section with the old profile image (which means we could easily delete the one we replace). So then we maintain the same amount of images, yet the profile is of better quality. Oh, and sorry if this discussion got too heated, Thailog. Vaznock - Talk 16:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

For the second time, I'm not debating which image is better. I'm saying that if this one stays, File:Ep4-54.png should be deleted and removed from "The Warriors of Kyoshi" because it's existentially a duplicate. This is exactly what we've been discussing at the forum: the site is swarming with images because people keep uploading similar files to depict one same subject on different articles. File:Ep4-54.png on "The Warriors of Kyoshi" to depict the Kyoshi Warriors, and File:KyoshiSuggestion.png on Kyoshi Warriors to depict.... the Kyoshi Warriors. We can't use File:KyoshiSuggestion.png on this page and on "The Warriors of Kyoshi," but we can use File:Ep4-54.png on both. But since the majority seems to agree that the newer one is better, myself included, then File:Ep4-54.png should be deleted and removed from that episode page. So exentially what I'm asking is: is File:KyoshiSuggestion.png worth removing File:Ep4-54.png from "The Warriors of Kyoshi"? And please don't ask why we can't keep both. I'm getting tired of repeating myself. ― Thailog 17:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, okay. We can delete the old one, but first we need a profile picture for "The Warriors of Kyoshi". Any suggestions? Okay, okay. We can delete the old one, but first we need a profile picture for "The Warriors of Kyoshi". Any suggestions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaznock (talkcontribs) 17:07, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

This discussion escalated quickly while I was away...okay, there is no point uploading a whole new image for The Warriors of Kyoshi, because it would defeat the purpose of getting rid of File:Ep4-54.png. At this point, I'd throw on the profile image suggestion for this page and delete the other one. Then, on the other article, make one of the images that is already there the profile image. Wjxhuang, the 888th Avatar {Talk} 17:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
My suggestion, Vaznock, is for you and Thailog to cease your constant quarreling. But as for the file, I like KyoshiSuggestion.png, but under a different name. As I said though, we don't need a discussion over every little thing. It's changed now, so I see this discussion as closed. I'm unsure why it continued after I okayed the file change. --Energybender 17:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Please don't use that language. It's unbecoming of an admin. Your vote just counts as one, and your admin status doesn't grant you privilege over anyone; you are a glorified janitor, so don't act as if you are in charge. And if you were unsure why this conversation continued after you "okayed the file change" then you should have cared enough to read the posts instead of taking this smug stance coming rather close to a power trip. ― Thailog 18:25, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I actually enjoy their constant quarreling. Sorry, if I sound a bit strange. But, their disputes show us how they think and how they are able to handle these types of situations. We like to know how different users react to these types of things. It shows us what they are made of. In case if we ever need to acccept another user into our administration, we could look back at how different users were able to handle these things. Mattkenn3 Talk 17:41, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

We may argue, but we are on good terms. When these disputes settle, I'm sure you all notice that we immediately forget about it, and usually have a good laugh about them. Vaznock - Talk 19:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

These types of "disputes" are completely acceptable. They are actually a good thing. They are over article improvement and usually end with a compromise or agreement that does help the article. Mattkenn3 Talk 21:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow! This has turned into quite a discussion since I changed the image on 18:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC). I really didn't mean to cause such a stir. Anyway, I think Energybender has the right idea about adding File:KyoshiSuggestion.png, but under a different file name. Katara-dobs-c2 - Avatar Junky -Talk 00:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Energy: did you mean what you said or was it badly put? Because to me, that did sound over-authoritative, and you probably shouldn't do that in the future. Everyone else: these discussions are fine, I'm not seeing personal attacks thrown anywhere, and I think that these long discussions are a key feature of any wiki that is working as it should be. Wjxhuang, the 888th Avatar {Talk} 03:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The poor talk page never stood a chance against us........Vaznock - Talk 03:11, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, maybe we should jet an image of Ty lee also in there. You know, since she's a Kyoshi Warrior. Vaznock - Talk 15:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I think that this image looks fine. I don't think there is a very good image of Ty Lee and the other Kyoshi Warriors. Mattkenn3 Talk 15:29, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Wjxhuang: They did seem to be arguing a lot on Talk:Avatar Wiki, but I'm sorry for seeming over authoritative. And Thailog: I didn't really use any strong language other than what was for, as you said, organizational purposes. We usually have big things like this on a forum, but as it relates directly to the article, it's fine. Talk:Avatar Wiki did, however, go off into the deep end a bit. I do agree with Mattkenn's claim that long talks help us pick out potential administrators. And as for me being in charge, I get a voice as an administrator; just a voice, not supreme control, which lies in the hands of our dear Omnibender. --Energybender 16:25, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
The language was not so much strong as it was arrogant and hubristic. Particularly when you say "I'm unsure why it continued after I okayed the file change." That's rude and disrespectful particularly to me, who was trying to make a point, which you seemed to be dismissing. Admin or not, discussions are not over just because you say so. And as for Omnibender having "supreme control," you just proved me right when I say admins think themselves to be almighty. ― Thailog 16:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, it wasn't that bad. Honestly, we were just having a discussion. I saw no true bitterness or aggressive on the Avatar Wiki talk page. Vaznock - Talk 16:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

People will see what they want to see. ― Thailog 16:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

As for Energy's comment, I'd agree that it was uncalled for and way too authoritative, but I don't think it was to make himself seem in charge. I think it may of come out more authoritative than it was meant to be, and you can figure that out if you look at how Energy normally behaves, compared to that comment. Vaznock - Talk 16:44, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Energy, there is no supreme control in this community work. Mattkenn3 Talk 17:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, it was one or the other. Either we are all equal and Omni has a bit more say, or we are just all equal. --Energybender 18:30, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

We are all equal. Becoming a member of the administration or gaining rollback or bureaucracy is a form of recognition that shows that you are trusted and well respected by the community. Therefore, these types of users have no more power over any other. All members of a wiki's community are equal. Some members have more experience and are granted these special abilities and titles but, they have no more power than any other user. As far as I am concerned, these "higher ranking" users are nothing more than tools to improve the wiki. Mattkenn3 Talk 20:12, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't put it better myself. Just so that I can voice my opinion however, I think Energybender meant to simply that what he asked to do was okay, and simply try to reassure WaterKai. I know the way he ended up saying it was ambiguous, and I'm sure some people (telling from this discussion) took it the wrong way, but I think it was a simple mis-communication that caused this large kerfuffle. Just to clear this up, Energybender didn't mean anything bad, and just didn't choose his words clearly enough, and of course this doesn't reflect what every other user with a few extra buttons to push thinks. Most (hopefully all) admins don't consider themselves a superior user or even 'a discussion ender', so please don't think of all (or any) of us like that, we really aren't. I just want to clarify and stress this before anyone starts thinking of admins as 'authoritative figures'. Thanks! Joey - Talk Contribs 22:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Amen. Now, we are all on the same page. Mattkenn3 Talk 22:03, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I vote the image above over the one in the article - more captivating, eye pleasing. Piandao Talk 08:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Where have you been? Vaznock - Talk 18:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

uhm - out of the debate.. now adding 2cents, not sure if you mean something else, mostly a busy weekend?? ...confused, aka Piandao Talk 20:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, ummmmm, did you read the entire discussion on this talk page? Vaznock - Talk 20:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

uhm, No! Keeping up the theme :)... It's a tad 'heavy' in places Vaznock, so I skipped some. Either way I love the image at the top of the discussion ;) Piandao Talk 20:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I suggest you read all of it. Vaznock - Talk 20:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
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