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#1018 - 06/24/03 05:55 PM Confuscious Board  
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psychogen Offline
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Right well I am not the most loved of members nor the most upspoken of them either but I do know something about myself that has always been with everyone, yes, I tend to speak my mind when I get pissed off!

Ok I am not pissed off but I do have a question to make...

"Why are 80% of the topics in General closed?"

You scroll around looking for something to state an opinion to, and finally you see something and...topic closed, topic closed everything is bloody closed after only 3 replies or maybe 5 if lucky, has this board turned into a republican shithole, where we have to censor just about every word that is either irrelevant or off balance to the community?

I dunno but its sort of Confuscious!

In any case, I am noone to judge the mental or political integrity of this place, but I do know that there is too much [censored] and too little gold lying on the street, but atleast lets have fun with the crap while we drown in it!

Thats my addition to the [censored]!


The use of "hacker" to mean "security breaker" is a confusion on the part of the mass media. We hackers refuse to recognize that meaning, and continue using the word to mean, "Someone who loves to program and enjoys being clever about it."
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#1019 - 06/24/03 06:21 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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pergesu Offline
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Topics get closed for a good reason. They either talk about something illegal, totally stupid, or don't belong. Read the rules to see what sorts of topics can be closed. If you've got problems with a particular topic being closed, PM whoever closed it. What does closing topics have to do with being a Republican shithole? I say we call everybody here Communists, since Communists were big into censoring stuff. Or how about Nazis, because they burned books, which is obviously a form of censure. This is a stupid post, and really should be in Off Topic, because it's got nothing to do with the site. Therefore, it should be closed. However I'll leave it open so you can vent and call me a big meanie.

#1020 - 06/24/03 07:49 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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This topic belongs in general. General is for technology posts that don't fit in other areas, or about board related stuff.

I'm leaning more on psychogen's side in this debate. Certainly illegal stuff should be closed. Psychogen is not the only respected member complaining about too many topics being closed. I myself don't care much either way. When somebody posts something stupid, I tend to ignore it. If somebody chooses to close it... *shrug* but I would've been just as happy with it open.

So even though the general opinion is that too many topics are being closed, and because of that, I share the same opinion... There is nothing I can or will do about it. It is up to the moderator's discretion as to whether a topic is closed. I'm not about to tell moderator's not to close so much, cause what if it is truly necessary? So instead, I support what pergesu said about complaints. If anybody has a particular problem with a topic being closed, then contact that moderator about it, OR come to me about it.


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#1021 - 06/24/03 08:18 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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pergesu Offline
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I think you ought to look at the Newbie forum though. This place gets so many stupid posts that shouldn't be here. We don't have to close them, but we choose to. There are many people who make one post, it gets closed, and we never see them again. Think of it as a milder Darwin Award. However the Newbie section has many appropriate posts, and the vast majority of them are open. In fact, I counted two posts in the list that showed up I believe. So posts that belong stay open. Those that don't get closed. I've only been closing so many topics because unreal's been away, and I feel it's my duty to pick up his slack.

#1022 - 06/24/03 08:43 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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i would prefer it if closed topics were to automatically move to the bottom of the list of topics, or some other solution out of the way.


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#1023 - 06/24/03 10:59 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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Ice Offline
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or mabye move the close topics to another thread called something like Black Hole, or something were all the usless [censored], closed topics could be placed there


Good artists copy, great artists
steal.

-Picasso
#1024 - 06/25/03 08:12 AM Re: Confuscious Board  
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psychogen Offline
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pergesus, I in no way suggested that the rules be ignored or that we allow the posting of illegal material, the questions is simply, "how far can one go these days?".

I am just observing a drastic change to the style of moderation, I am not saying that you as a moderator are doing a bad job, because you are right, there is too much stuff that should be closed. But what enforcement do we have in place that would prevent anything of the nature to be posted again?

None. Rules are broken simply because they are called "rules", and that we cannot change within the society that we as "individuals" choose to associate ourselves with.

I am wondering to what happened to the "what a dumbass lets flame him 30 times before closing the topic" attitude, fact is that few of the topics closed explain why they have been closed, and dont start quoteing back to be what it apparently says in the rules because you and I know that unless you have to sign a dotted line somewhere you dont bother reading the terms and conditions.

So there is few things we can do and realistically there is no point in debating in who is right or wrong, because there seems to be no logical answer to that anymore.

We used to flame people to unbelievable extends but even that option, maybe even a priviledge, is being taken away from what we set out to do, which is to educate the less knowledgable by one mean or the other. So how is someone to learn about what is not right and what is right when we dont even give our members the choice to explain why these people are considered to post utter and total crap.

This is not a political debate and the suggestive/provocative term "republican shithole" was a comparisson to the current political state of various powerful nations on earth and please ignore as obviously you find it insulting to whatever (possibly belief) you may have, but to compare a real life situation to a past era of slaughter such as nationalism and comunism is not right, unless of course you look at a wider perspective of things, because what is a republican?

Well here are some key points I have observed about republicans:

  • White person
  • Highly patriotic
  • Generally ignorant
  • Thinks they are gods gift to humanity
  • Huge capitalists
  • Less concerned about the less needy


Ok thats a stupid list but its a true list, and yes it can be adapted to [censored] loads of governements and whatsoever, but I ask you to look at the current gov in the US and tell me what there isnt wrong with it, because if you find me a valid reason why 80% of floridas non-white/american residents where banned from voting in the last elections?

Tell me why does the governement back out of huge international treaties regarding pollution, warfare and the manufacturing of damaging chemicals, that prohibit certain emission/products (whatever) and then still thinks it has the right as a nation to attack other political environements that have alot less problems like that?

Why is half of Bush's campaign sponsored by NOTHING BUT republican corporations/governors and why do subsequently all these corporations get easier ways to avoid huge fines for environemental damage or whatever.

But it is acceptable to arrest the wrong man (who happens to be mentally damaged) and jail him for 2 years for a crime he had not comitted allthough the crime was commited on the other coast of america and he was arrested about 2 hours later to the exact contrary location of the [censored] nation, then the public defendant makes such an effort to question this man that he spends about 2 minutes with him and then pleads him guilty, off course him being black, about the same age as the person that comitted the crime and also shared the same name (unfortunately they failed to notice that this man had skitzophenia!!!!!!)....

[censored] this i am getting into something that i dare not touch with a 60 foot pole and has nothing to do with the orginal problem.

bye,


The use of "hacker" to mean "security breaker" is a confusion on the part of the mass media. We hackers refuse to recognize that meaning, and continue using the word to mean, "Someone who loves to program and enjoys being clever about it."
--------------------
"Its not a bug, its a feature" (Epic Games)
#1025 - 06/25/03 11:23 AM Re: Confuscious Board  
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pergesu Offline
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I only read the top part of the post, because the bottom part has nothing to do with the problem you mentioned. You're right that if you don't have to sign a dotted line, you probably don't read the rules. You don't have to read the rules, I don't care. People that post don't have to read the rules, I don't care. The mods need to know the rules though, and need to see to it that the rules are upheld. This keeps UGN out of any kind of legal trouble, as well as maintaining something of a professional image.

We say all the time that if you have a problem with a topic being closed, go ahead and PM the mod that closed it, one of the GMs, or an admin. So we have the mod that closed it, me, unreal, and SR. In the future I'll give better explanations about why I close stuff. Now for your thing about people not being given the option to flame newbies for when they make dumb posts, I don't give a flying [censored]. If you wanna flame a newb, go ahead and check the forums every five minutes and get your flame in before we close the posts. I see no need to flame anybody. I think on occasion it might be warranted, but that's very, very rare. I close stuff mostly because I know somebody's gonna get flamed, and I don't appreciate the disrespect that gets shown in such flames. This makes the newb less willing to come back, less willing to spread the word about UGN, and makes UGN look bad. You can say, "Well I've got a thick skin, he should too." That's not how it works. When somebody speaks up for the first time and gets [censored] on and kicked, he's not gonna come back.

How are newbs supposed to learn what's okay to post and what's not? Well when they post, and 20 minutes later it gets closed, I'm sure they get a good idea that that wasn't a good post.

As you said, we help people learn. That includes long time members and people brand new to the computer scene. I want to see as many people come here and find what they're looking for as possible, and that doesn't happen if they get flamed [censored]-black on their first post.

#1026 - 06/25/03 11:46 AM Re: Confuscious Board  
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Flames are actually not that bad. Gizmo has offered his approval to flames in the staff forum. He gave this approval when the crap just kept coming. There is no real reason why we can't close a topic after a few flames. It's not like we're a business and are afraid of losing the type of members which we have no respect for anyway.

But the fact of the matter it doesn't matter if we close or flame. Both say the same message. The only thing that matters right now is that many respected members are feeling that too many topics are being closed. That the board needs to "lighten up" a little.


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#1027 - 06/25/03 12:57 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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Thus ends pergesu's reign of terror. I've lightened up, so flame away

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#1028 - 06/25/03 01:40 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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psychogen Offline
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Right fair point by all means, no objections made to whatever, again apoligize for the incostency of what had been posted below the actual point of the previous post I had made.

I just got quite amazingly carried away :p

But I still disagree with closing posts 20 minutes after they have been posted, even with the most ridiculous of stuff, I personally recogn that a new "rule" should be imposed which allows people only to close a post be it of utter and complete ridicule to our board within less than 16 hours of its existance, and that any other ridiculous / illegal post be left for a minimum of 16 hours.

This will keep everything within legal boundaries and give the people a fair chance to state opinions.


The use of "hacker" to mean "security breaker" is a confusion on the part of the mass media. We hackers refuse to recognize that meaning, and continue using the word to mean, "Someone who loves to program and enjoys being clever about it."
--------------------
"Its not a bug, its a feature" (Epic Games)
#1029 - 06/25/03 02:35 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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pergesu Offline
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Disagree all you want, I just blatantly stated that I won't be closing any more topics. Now you've made your point, it's been both acknowledged and accepted. Go ahead and continue to argue the merits of your suggestions to deaf ears

#1030 - 06/25/03 03:09 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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Well if you won't be closing topics, then at least recommend topics you think should be closed to other moderators when they come up.


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#1031 - 06/25/03 03:31 PM Re: Confuscious Board  
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All the mods here are good. If a topic warrants closing, somebody will close it


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