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12:00 AM
@Dharman No, but I hoped you'd get my point. ;)
 
"While Shog9 has allowed organized voting in chat rooms, we do not want to be seen as a voting mob" - socvr.org/faq#GEfM-no-up-down-vote-requests
 
@Dharman Sorry, then. Somebody wrote "I kinda fancy slapping -100 to everyone who dumps us a requirement list with no apparent effort to even read their question" yesterday. The permalink isn't working, so I just quoted it instead. This is what I meant.
 
@JohnDvorak Can you please explain what you meant when you said chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/49925418 ?
 
@Andreas That just sounds like a personal opinion to me. Not a suggestion to do it.
 
@Dharman See my third message above. We'd been talking about R/A flags/posts, and I mentioned I find it a bit rude to dump a homework/exam task (a.k.a. requirement list) on us.
I wrote "Also; somebody may have flagged "give me the code" as R/A, because, ehm, we're quite a few that actually find that rude."
@Dharman – But of course; it's very important that we don't act like a voting mob, and don't make this room seem like one either. I apologize if that's the consequence of my comment.
 
12:11 AM
@Andreas But that is not directly rude, that is likely to be a misunderstanding of how the site works. We're suppose to assume good faith.
 
Is it okay or not okay to copy another user's generic comment to use when commenting thing like 'Welcome to SO! ...'?
 
dbc
I hope it's OK because I've certainly done it!
 
@AnnZen You need their consent to use if without attribution.
 
@Scratte Well, yes... but also no. I've met the kind of people in real life, that would just dump their work on somebody else, so I'm willing to believe users on SO do the same, in bad faith. Is that a guarantee even any user on SO would do that? No. I misunderstood the site myself when I joined, but there were some things that I just thought it would be impossible to get wrong. One, is the concept of duplicates. I've already gotten it proven many do get that wrong. Dumping homework on us?
I find it hard to believe any user would assume this is ok. But, as you say, I might very well be wrong, so that is not a reason to assume bad faith either.
What I have seen, is users doing other actions in bad faith, and so that lowers my bar for what I'd assume is bad faith in terms of homework dumps requirement lists.
I have also seen users repeatedly dump requirement lists on us, after being told this is not ok. At that point, I must assume it is done in bad faith.
 
@Andreas I will not assume that everyone does not know how it works, and there is no such thing as dumping something in a Question and hoping some kind person (that doesn't know the rules or doesn't understand a certain tag ;) gets them an answer. But I do not think that it's appropriate to make the assumption that that's what's happening. Best thing is to just be polite and close it and let Roomba deal with it. Or engage with the user to edit their Question.
 
12:23 AM
Yesterday, a 1000+ user gave us a requirement list. That was taken down, and removed. Sadly, I recognized this user. I believe I've seen this user posting requirement lists before, too. That is however just a thought; no evidence.
 
@AnnZen Something as generic as just "Welcome to SO!" is not copyrightable under most circumstances. However, if you are actually copying someone, then you should give them attribution, unless they've given permission for you to copy it without the attribution. If you are just creating a greeting, and happen to get something that's identical, or nearly identical, as something as generic as "Welcome to SO!", then you're not copying.
If you're talking about a comment more involved than just "Welcome to SO!", then most people, if you ask, will give you permission to use most such comments in other situations on SO without attribution.
 
But it doesn't really matter to me, because nothing is taken from me by being polite and not make the bad faith assumption. However if I do make this assumption, I'll be punitive to all the ones that honestly didn't know and had misunderstood things.
 
It might just be a cultural aspect to it too. It surprises me how many low quality questions flow in. It's as if the posters never read the rules. I'm aware that they're not necessarily the easiest to find, and understand... I made great errors when I posted my first questions on here. I asked off-topic questions.
- But there are limits. I'd assume a minimal requirement for any user is to at least take their time to read the rules. I'm willing to believe that even if you misunderstand there, there are limits as to how far you can step wrong.
 
@Andreas But it is not up to us to be punitive. The system itself will make it impossible for them to post. So if you see a bad Question, just close vote, down vote and.. that's it.
 
@Scratte Of course, you're right. Just leaving a flag and a downvote is the best thing to do, and also politely guide the asker. Though, when the asker clearly "commands" you to give them an answer to their obviously off-topic question, and their tone is bad, I very much understand that it annoys people. It annoys me too.
 
12:30 AM
@Andreas It actually just makes me smile when this happen, and then I stop commenting. Though it very rarely happens to me, as I try to be polite with my first comment.
 
@Makyen Oh.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:45 AM
@JeanneDark "Blatantly off-topic" is the flag version of the custom close reason that is unlocked with full CV privileges. The idea is just that we don't flaggers to be typing in custom reasons. You are fine with posting [cv-pls] requests here for "blatantly off-topic". If it makes anyone feel better, you can simply omit the "blatantly" and just say "off-topic".
If you really want to go the extra mile, you can add a word or two about why it's off-topic. "Not programming related" would also be acceptable general wording for [cv-pls] requests.
(I just read on to Dharman and rene's advice. Sage, as ever. Someone should elect those folks as moderator.)
@AdrianMole Unfortunately, I'm really not available at the moment. :-)
 
Can mods do all the things RO can do? Like do they have the kick button?
 
@AnnZen Yes, moderator powers are a superset of RO powers.
Moderators are effective room owners in all chat rooms on this site. However, we don't typically use those powers, preferring instead to delegate moderation of chat rooms to the actual room owners, who know the culture better. We only step in if absolutely necessary.
(For example, no ROs around, or ROs not doing their job, or someone came to mods with a complaint about ROs and we agreed with their complaint.)
 
I have a mere stick. Cody has an M1 tank
4
 
@AdrianMole Almost right...up until the end. It's never "math." with a period (wait... I mean... "full stop") at the end. Just as you Brits don't write "math's", which is what you'd have to do for a contraction.
 
@CodyGray Have you ever pinned a chat message?
 
2:56 AM
@AnnZen I...don't remember for sure. I don't think I have in here. I have in other chat rooms, for sure. As I said, I let the ROs handle it in here. There are plenty of them, and they're sufficiently active.
Actually... hehe, I think I one time did pin a message in here, and @rene griped at me, because it was somewhat unprecedented for mods to exercise RO powers. I didn't know that, being a fairly new mod. It was a whole thing. We're better now.
 
@CodyGray Do you get suggested edit or answer edited in your inbox everyday?
 
@AnnZen For my own answers? No, not every day. Probably not even one per week. But it does happen, yes.
Truthfully, I don't read a lot of what appears in my inbox. There is too much.
@VLAZ What do you see as the advantage of Violentmonkey over Tampermonkey?
@Scratte That's a ratio. 0.5 is the ratio of 50 to 100, which is equivalent to 50%
(Essentially the same as "rate", as suggested by Braiam, but grammatically speaking, it would need to be "ratio".)
@DavidBuck While I agreed with your request regarding [anydesk] and actioned it myself after it was posted on Meta, I do want to say that it does not make sense to post a request on Meta while simultaneously pursuing your own "burnination" of it (either entirely by yourself or with the involvement of this room). If you bring it to Meta, then that assumes you want feedback from Meta.
Given the very small number of questions there were with that tag, it's permitted to bypass the formal burnination procedure, after getting buy-in from a couple of trustworthy experts (as a sanity check to just your own judgment). Folks in this room would almost certainly count. But if you're going to do that, it isn't required (and arguably doesn't make sense) to post it on Meta.
The other thing you have to consider is whether stuff like that is worth community members spending their time and/or votes on.
 
3:13 AM
@CodyGray Replied to your Meta comment but as an addendum, the vast majority of [chef] is asking about the devops software. If it goes too long without a rename, it will certainly need a cleanup first
 
@Machavity Thanks; haven't gone through my inbox yet, so I haven't seen it. Not entirely clear on what you mean. Are you saying it's ready for an immediate merge/rename?
 
It should be. I did a cursory run-through of their newer software tags and only found a couple that needed a retag
 
@RyanM Did you review 20 yesterday?
 
I'm not sure. I don't think so.
Why do you ask?
 
I'm just wondering if your close call was easily avoidable ^^
 
Oh, probably :-p I could've seen it coming any number of days in advance
 
3:58 AM
There's no limit to editing posts, right?
 
Correct, but you can only approve 40 other users' edits
 
There is, however, a limit to the number of your own posts you can edit per day
 
@RyanM Really? Then it must be very high, because I edit my own posts a lot when I'm answering questions.
 
@IanCampbell It also scales with reputation. I dunno how it scales.
Apparently when you hit it, it then tells you to flag a moderator, which will mostly serve to annoy said moderator, as there's nothing they can do about that...
Scratte has hit it.
 
4:04 AM
Can confirm, Scratte has annoyed a moderator. :-)
 
Someone's suspension got lifted.
Thanks for sharing the gossip SD.
 
@IanCampbell How do you know?
 
@IanCampbell Happened earlier, when I got a constructive response to the mod message I sent. They offered to improve their answer, and I told them to go ahead. Just finally had a chance to follow up on reviewing and undeleting it.
 
That's so heartening to hear.
 
Right?
 
4:06 AM
Thanks for informing us that Cody might be attempting to spam the site by undeleting answers, Smokey
But also yay, glad the message was delivered
 
I'm choosing to assume that they just missed the community feedback. Or at least that they didn't take it seriously until it came from a moderator through "official" channels. Either way, a positive outcome. We live for these moments.
 
I'll go delete my comment on their post, then, as it's happily no longer needed
 
@RyanM A good moderator would have already checked and removed such types of comments.
 
Ann, I only know because I watched a user reported by SD have their reputation go to 1. And then it's not 1 any more in the most recent report.
 
If you find such a good moderator, please vote for that person in the election.
 
4:07 AM
@CodyGray well, there are two more on another one of their posts that I just flagged for the same reason... :-p
 
@RyanM Yeah, yeah
You didn't read my message carefully. :-)
 
I chose to go with the interpretation that allowed for more snark here, and maybe also welcomes a user back a bit more nicely
 
I can't argue with that.
 
waffles
@AnnZen That seems more like details or clarity, no?
 
@IanCampbell They didn't show any code.
 
4:19 AM
It's not a debugging question
 
Say I showed you a table of data and my question was "How can I make an Alluvial plot of this data?" It'd be a duplicate, but not unfocused.
 
alluvial plot... is that where you just throw loose soil and call whatever pattern it falls in a "plot"?
 
Haha
Now I'm going to look up why it's called that. Thanks
 
@IanCampbell Why would that not be unfocused?
 
Are we still doing geology?
 
4:22 AM
uh oh, better go.
 
My father is a geophysicist. Thankfully I didn't follow in his footsteps
I don't actually know how to make an alluvial plot in python, but it's like 2 lines in R, so I'm not sure I agree that it's unfocused.
 
@IanCampbell Yeah, that'd have been awful. You would have had those extra 8 years of your life that you spent doing residency, and who knows how much mischief you could have managed to get into during that time.
 
Worse, I got a PhD too...
 
haha
 
And 2 fellowships. Don't make fun
 
4:25 AM
Well, I hear they have combined MD+PhD programs. I thought about that myself, but then decided that there's no point. The PhD allows you to do everything except touch patients, and that's not the fun part for me.
 
If you put a gun to my head and told me to pick one, I'd go with the PhD.
Also, Alluvial plots are so named because of these: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alluvial_fan
TIL
And so it really was just like you said.
 
Not gonna lie, I can't imagine how an alluvial plot could ever make data more clear. I can't make heads or tails of the ones I see on Google Images.
Like this --- what?
 
I agree, I don't find it a useful data visualization strategy
 
4:55 AM
Oh, now I need to find the graph that I thought was a joke when I first saw it
 
My eyes!
 
I think I get what they were trying to do, but they did not succeed...
 
So...now I'm even more confused.
This article was linked on Twitter as providing more "context/information", but that conflicts with the original publicist's own subsequent tweet, "I have nothing to promote but please stay home, wash your hands, and stop publishing charts with default Excel formatting"
 
I think what I'm most confused about is that someone is apparently trying to seriously defend that train wreck?
 
@IanCampbell I'm always confused about that. Hang around here long enough and you will be, too.
 
5:02 AM
I try to stay out of COVID (both literally and figuratively) as much as I can, but an immediate problem is that deaths are under-reported on the weekends.
 
I do like her Twitter bio: "Views are mine. Twitter is a bubble, so they’re probably yours too."
@IanCampbell Yeah, that's definitely true, but all it does is skew plots. It doesn't really skew data analysis. The deaths get reported on Monday.
 
@CodyGray Hard to know without the code, but "smoothed rate of change from the date before to the date after the date shown" would presumably be particularly artificially low on Saturdays.
 
Maybe we should ask for an MCVE?
 
Sure, just send her a tweet and tell her you're a diamond moderator on Stack Overflow. "Excuse me ma'am, I need to see some MCVE."
 
Someone needs to send her an emoji overuse warning
Does Twitter have moderators for that?
 
5:15 AM
Mostly they just have mobs
which kind of looks like "mods" if you squint
 
Also, HIPPA covers human subjects research. So you can add that to the list of things to talk to her about in your chat.
 
Somehow it makes me feel safe that "male premium" is on the blacklist.
 
@IanCampbell Really? I'm concerned. Will that mean I'll be offered sub-par male products?
 
We only allow budget male enhancement spam on SO.
 
5:18 AM
@IanCampbell that's gonna be a problem for my problem involving a USB-A male to USB-C male premium USB cable...
 
@RyanM You'll be foiled long before that: "problem" is blocked here, too.
 
@CodyGray I can almost guarantee that all male enhancement products advertised in Stack Overflow questions are sub-par.
 
Ah, good to know. I feel better with a review from someone I trust.
 
That HIPPA Hippo account is actually pretty funny
 
I can't even decide anymore. Is that "wild Karen" post funny, or sad and infuriating?
 
5:23 AM
@CodyGray I was not comfortable with Tampermonkey going closed source. Especially since it turned out it was collecting information on and it wasn't until after that came to light that the developers added a statement on privacy. The whole move to closed source still fills me with unease. I wouldn't say Tampermonkey is untrustworthy in general but it certainly lost my trust. Thus for me Violentmonkey is preferable.
Also, from technical standpoint I'm not aware of any problems and issues when it comes to Violentmonkey executing userscripts, therefore I don't see downsides to using it. Still, Tampermonkey is the most used userscript manager with most developers and users executing scripts to it, so if there is any quirk to running a script, it's most likely to occur outside Tampermonkey.
 
@VLAZ Ah, that makes sense. And was exactly the answer I was looking for. I simply wasn't aware of Violentmonkey, or I would have installed it to start with.
 
The potential downside to Violentmonkey is that because it has lower usage, you might encounter a bug that Tampermonkey users don't.
 
@CodyGray Why can't it be all three?
Now you've got me worried VLAZ. I shall now go look into PurpleOrangutan or whatever.
 
It's not the color that matters, it's the violence level.
@IanCampbell I'm having a harder and harder time laughing these days at things that are extremely sad and/or are ruining the world.
 
It doesn't tamper with the webpage, it ruthlessly vandalizes it.
 
5:28 AM
HoodlumApe is the "pro" version.
 
ThugMacaque?
 
@VLAZ We have had one compatibility issue on the SOCVR Request Generator on Violentmonkey.
 
I'd go with JerkMacaque, but it might not pass the focus groups.
 
I really missed an opportunity there, way to pick up the ball on that one.
 
@VLAZ It is of concern that Tampermonkey went closed source. However, like any browser extension, the JavasScript/HTML/CSS is inherently available for inspection. IIRC, it has been minimized, but it can be inspected. OTOH, Violentmonkey is a reasonable open-source alternative.
 
5:35 AM
What an interesting decision, this user posted an answer, which links to their comment on the same page which in turn links to another SO post: stackoverflow.com/a/62927890
 
@Makyen What was the issue, in general terms? Do you recall?
 
@IanCampbell it links to the question itself, not the comment. As in, the answer links to the question it's under. So, it's not even a direct link to the comment.
 
That was a mess to untangle, indeed. Took me a couple of false starts before I figured out what option made the most sense.
 
I got stuck in a human brain loop for a second clicking the same link over and over.
 
Yeah, I couldn't even figure out which tab corresponded to which link.
 
5:43 AM
@CodyGray The best I tracked it down to was that Violentmonkey inserted the userscript into the page in a manner which resulted in the jQuery loaded for the userscript conflicted with the jQuery loaded on SE pages. There were no set of options which I found to use with the version of jQuery the userscript was specifying that both allowed it to work with Violentmonkey and kept it working with other userscript managers.
The eventual solution, which we've been testing for a while w/o reported problems, was to update the version of jQuery which the userscript uses.
 
@Makyen The real bug there seems to have been the userscript providing its own version of jQuery. It should just use the one loaded by SE.
You can say "compatibility problems", but if SE updates their jQuery version, they're surely also going to update other things, which will result in other breakage of your userscript.
If you've got an unavoidable dependency, embrace the fact that it's a dependency.
 
5:56 AM
@CodyGray That is not possible in most userscript managers with what else that script does. It's also not desirable from a security POV. The point is that, given the options the Request Generator selects, the userscript environment/context should be entirely separate from the page environment/context.
With those options selected, the jQuery which is in the page should not be able to interfere with the jQuery loaded by the Request Generator. None of the in-page JavaScript should be available to the userscript, unless the userscript explicitly puts code into the page context, which the Request Generator does properly do for the areas of the code where it needs to interact with Stack Exchange in-page code.
Basically, the fact that the jQuery loaded by the Request Generator interfered/was interfered by the page jQuery implies that there's at least one security bug in Violentmonkey. For what we are doing, it's a very low risk, but is something which should be of concern if the scripts were running on pages that were not generally trusted.
 
Uh, how does a userscript even function properly if its environment/context is entirely separate from the page environment/context? None of the userscripts I write or use work that way.
 
6:20 AM
@CodyGray Yes, if the userscript chooses to use none of the userscript APIs (i.e. has the @grant none option, which is the default), then the userscript is put into the page context (in Tampermonkey and Violentmonkey, but not Greasemonkey, which is one of the major incompatibilities).
Having a context, which is separate from the page context, that is used for the injected script is a basic part of how browser extensions work (browser extensions inject "content scripts" into the separate context). Note that it's a separate context for each browser extension that injects a content script into a page, not just one context for all of them.
The separate content script context has full access to the DOM, but not to the JavaScript context that the in-page JavaScript is running in. For a userscript, there is, typically, yet another context which is used just for the userscript, which keeps it separate from all of: the page context, the userscript manager's content script context, the context for any other userscripts, and content scripts from other browser extenstions.
These separate contexts are a major portion of the security environment. They prevent code that's running in a lower security context from obtaining access to the APIs which are available to the code that is in a higher security context. The lowest security context is the in-page JavaScript, which has no access to any functionality beyond what's normal for a webpage. The next higher security context is the userscript context, which has access to some APIs provided by the userscript manager.
The content script context has access to whatever content script APIs which have been requested in the permissions for the browser extension. The content script also has access to the page DOM, and can insert code into the in-page context, with which it can communicate in a limited number of ways, but all are, effectively, via JSON serialized data, or just signals.
The content script can also communicate to scripts running in the background context (again, only via JSON serialized data). Scripts running in the background context can use the full spectrum of browser extension APIs, but don't have access to the webpage's DOM. In fact, at this point in most browsers, the background context is usually in a different process than the content scripts, userscripts, and in-page JavaScript.
 
 
6:54 AM
@CodyGray Only one? :)
 
7:38 AM
I frequently leave a comment to questions to the effect of "Please post text, not images". It seems I should change that going forward to "Please post text in the question itself, not images". Too often I get the OP post the code as a comment...
 
@VLAZ +1
 
@VLAZ I use this short canned thing "Please do not post images of code. Instead post the code as text in a code block. See How do I ask a good question?"
 
8:28 AM
@Lankymart Heads-up: per rule 15 you should ping an RO to have a request removed if you decide answer the question (which, FWIW, I think is a legitimate answer to a legitimate question: the improper quoting was more or less what the OP was asking how to fix)
@akrun The OP has added sample data, does this address the lack of MCVE?
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, requestor became involved in the question.
 
8:57 AM
@RyanM I wasn't going to, but seen as though it stayed open and someone else decided to answer and just transferred my original comment to an answer. Still think it should have been closed as it is a very basic typo issue that's been answered in various forms hundreds of times.
 
Congratz Lanky, you have just inherited an answer ;-)
 
Actually think it should be dup of stackoverflow.com/a/15771551/692942
 
 
1 hour later…
10:32 AM
I left comments to the Q and As btw, not sure if it's against the room rules
 
11:05 AM
Is there a pool or bet somewhere around the Thanks™ feature on whether or not the feaure-removal tomorrow will remove all already given Thanks™?
 
 
1 hour later…
12:32 PM
Morning
 
This didn't get reversed. Should I flag it?
 
@AnnZen is the post deleted?
 
@AnnZen Yes, but this kind of things take a very long time to get reversed manually if the system didn't pick it up automatically
 
@Dharman Oh.
@ArghyaSadhu No.
 
12:47 PM
@AnnZen you will get back rep after its deleted
 
@CodyGray I came across this in FP and thought of our recent discussion about NAA vs VLQ flags - using VLQ for foreign language posts. Can I raise two flags on this one? 😊
 
@AdrianMole This is NAA. Let's assume it was an actual answer, then it could be salvaged by deleting the foreign language part since the OP translated it themself. (VLQ: "This answer has severe formatting or content problems. This answer is unlikely to be salvageable through editing, and might need to be removed.")
 
@JeanneDark Yes, indeed. I already flagged it NAA, but just found it a bit funny in the context of our previous discussion.
 
@AdrianMole As we have said over and over again, the only difference between NAA and VLQ flag is that when an edit is made to a post which you flagged as VLQ then your flag is marked helpful and removed from review queue.
 
Which is why I chose NAA rather than VLQ for that one.
 
12:57 PM
You can flag it again as VLQ when the post gets deleted and undeleted.
 
@Dharman It's also interesting to note that the Advanced Flagging script has a specific "Non-English" option in the popup menu but uses NAA for that, rather than VLQ.
 
Is there such thing as upvoting too many comments?
 
@AnnZen you mean for instance upvoting every single comment that exists? :p
 
@AnnZen It's rate-limited, too (I think 40 comment upvotes per day)
 
1:09 PM
@JeanneDark Oh
@JonClements No.
 
@JeanneDark Yes, I hit it once...in the meta post about the "Thanks" reaction. And I wasn't the only one...
 
1:35 PM
@MartinBackasch Please follow the standard format for cv-pls requests: socvr.org/…
 
@E_net4needscoffee I will take a look at it. Thanks.
 
2:27 PM
@Machavity I found the one I was looking for after I cast my vote. Could you fix it, please or use both?
 
@Dharman Which one?
 
@Dharman This one
 
Can candidates cast votes for other candidates?
 
@AnnZen I voted for Makyen as my #2 choice. Shouldn't surprise anyone
 
Nice. I don't know why finding the right post on Stack Overflow is so difficult.
 
2:31 PM
@Dharman I often Google when I need a dupe target. SO search leave much to be desired
 
I was googling the wrong thing for 5 minutes, so that didn't help
Anyway thanks
 
@Machavity Can they vote for themselves?
 
@AnnZen Yes, candidates are voters too
 
@AnnZen Whom do you think my #1 choice was? ;)
 
Me?
 
2:32 PM
shh don't spoil it
 
😂
 
@AnnZen How is this off-topic?
Your custom reason just says "it's off-topic" but it appears to be about programming.
 
I must've misread Pine Script.
 
@TylerH moved as a mis-read of the Q; the CV has been retracted already
@Tschallacka what is the close reason for this one? I just see "e"... maybe it got erased on accident during submission?
 
Seeking recommendations for books, tools, software libraries, and more
 
2:39 PM
@TylerH I thought it was typo for R
 
I suppose it could be... but "r" is also not a valid close reason
 
r means it's not reproducible or typo
 
I'm not sure that's a real acronym
 
It's an abbreviation
 
That's what I meant
@Dharman Do you have some page or link where this abbreviation is documented?
 
2:44 PM
It's meant for the request generator
 
So you can type "r" in the request generator and it will automatically expand that in the message posted here?
 
@TylerH Yes, I don't have time to search Makyen's Github but that is how it works
 
@Dharman @JohnDvorak Thanks; I've filed an issue for an enhancement on the GitHub repo.
 
Link?
 
2:51 PM
thanks
 
At least it wasn't a duplicate for a duplicate request.
 
@TylerH Binned per request as a duplicate *-pls request
 
@TylerH What does that mean?
 
@TylerH Just for reference ..the request generator UI options
 
3:03 PM
@AnnZen it means you requested for a RO to bin your cv-pls request due to already being requested.
 
> why?, I have the right in addition I am in an emergency to find an answer
 
@Scratte ew, case-sensitive?
 
@TylerH Yes. Makes way for more options, no? :)
But it can't have been E, since that's just "(no specific problem or error)"
 
@Scratte considering there are fewer than 26 options, and case-sensitive is bad UX, I'm not sure it's a good idea.
 
@TylerH I don't know where it came from. It may have been very early.. surely before my time here :)
@TylerH actually I think it makes sense.. if one types "m E", it will become "No MCVE (no specific problem or error)", if one types "m e" is just becomes "No MCVE e"
So it seems the upper case letters are meant to elaborate on the other choices.
 
3:11 PM
@TylerH never mind this message. I pinged this when it was still in this state stackoverflow.com/revisions/62931484/1
 
@TylerH Because there are only so many characters that A) make some amount of semantic sense for what they substitute for and B) are not something commonly used in normal writing. The uppercase/lowercase separation is that all of the upper case ones are secondary information, not primary close reasons. There's a tooltip, which provides a list of what substitutions there are, and there's a preview of what the request looks like, including what substitutions happened.
 
@Scratte fair point, I didn't think about allowing multiple letters for multiple reasons
@Makyen The level of complexity I would expect from a Makyen userscript :-)
personally I recommend avoiding one-character shortcuts specifically for the ease of mis-typing; two or three is still nearly as fast and almost completely eliminates the risk of this typo situation
 
I had typed out an explanation, not sure anymore what it was, something along of the line of too broad, no mcve, as I couldn't find a matching reason in the tooltip. But somehow that must have gotten wiped and replaced by an e. Not sure how. I derped probably.
 
@Tschallacka Needs details or clarity would have been fitting when you posted it here (then the OP added details)
 
3:23 PM
Will try to remember that :-)
 
@TylerH If we were at the beginning of the development of the Request Generator, well before I was a member of SOCVR, I'd probably agree. At this point, a complete redesign of it is counter-indicated, IMO. I agree that it's sometimes difficult to know what's going on with substitutions there. That's why I added both the tooltip and the live preview of what the request will look like.
 
Needs darkmode update though
the preview is very faint
 
@Tschallacka Bahh... darkmode. :)
 
We're still waiting for darkmode in chat :)
 
@AnnZen It would help if you posted a comment what details it needs. For non-python people it's difficult to understand what else it needs.
 
3:29 PM
@Dharman Where did it say it needs details?
 
"Needs debugging details"
 
@Dharman Yes?
 
@AnnZen Well, what details are you looking for?
 
@Dharman None. As a matter of fact, I think there are too many.
 
@Makyen I added a suggested workflow in the GH issue for the 1-character typo check
@Georgy This is an invalid request currently; users can only delete vote answers that are negatively scored.
 
@desertnaut Wouldn't that be Needs Details or Clarity?
 
@AnnZen well, I guess there is always a grey zone between these two reasons, and the Q falls within it
 
@TylerH Is it wrong to post such a request in hopes that somebody will both downvote the answer and cast a del-vote?
@TylerH Quoting the FAQ: "del-pls is for posts that... are within 1 downvote of being eligible for delete-votes"
 
@Georgy What is the purpose of the downvote?
 
@AnnZen That answer doesn't add any new or useful information.
 
4:00 PM
@Georgy But if the post gets deleted, the downvote would be gone, right?
 
@AnnZen Not "gone", just no longer applicable. But there are constraints for voting to delete answers, and the score is one of them.
 
@AnnZen Yes, it's just IIUC the post has to be at least -1 to be eligible for delete-votes. I can be wrong though, I am too far from deleting privileges.
 
Would downvotes from deleted posts reduce our score?
 
@AnnZen You mean you downvote a post, get -1 reputation and the post gets deleted? No, you get back the 1 reputation
 
Users do not have a "score" (except for a per-tag score, which contributes to tag badges).
 
4:04 PM
@JeanneDark I mean tag score.
If our post gets a downvote, then is deleted, will the -1 go to our score?
 
4:25 PM
@AnnZen Only if you let it sit a long time. If it's new, you'll get your rep back
 
@Machavity I'm not talking rep (i'm talking tag score). I got the answer though.
 
@Georgy I remember there was a discussion a while back that if one comes upon a post from within the room, one should limit one's up/down voting. I think it was to reduce a pileon whenever a post is posted here. So I think it may be violating the rules to expect a downvote on a post for it to be eligible for the request posted. I think a rule was changed due to this. It may have been rule 10
 
I've seen users edit the "Run code snippet" out of posts. Is that correct?
 
I think I may have recalled from this
 
@AnnZen only if it is not used for javascript/html/css
 
4:30 PM
@AnnZen yes if the snippet was used for code indention only and is not running at all
 
@Vickel How would one know when to edit it out?
 
@AnnZen just click on it, if its not running (gives error) it's just noise
 
Cool! I thought they never work!
 
@AnnZen So.. you missed the game! :)
 
awesome!
 
4:46 PM
:49944812 It sort of already looks like that :)
 
@Vickel No. Having non-functional JS code in a snippet can be specifically intended to show that it generates an error. The criteria you are using isn't appropriate.
 
@Makyen ok, but that would be the minority of cases, and probably in a good question/answer that would be mentioned?
I meant it more as a rule of thumb
 
@Vickel It also provides a trivial way to copy the code from the question to the answer. If the code is JS/HTML/CSS, then it's reasonable to just leave it in a snippet. The OP may be just more comfortable editing/entering code in the snippet editor.
 
waffles
and sirup
 
@Makyen Now, I wouldn't edit to put code into a snippet, unless there was a reason that the code should be run.
@Vickel IMO, it would be fine to edit a snippet out in those cases, unless the OP was using the capabilities of a snippet for another purpose (e.g. using the snippet to have the code as default hidden, so users can read the answer without having to see the code, which can be useful when providing multiple example cases). However, the use of snippets for their other capabilities is rare, and almost always done only by experienced users, who probably don't need their post cleaned up.
 
4:57 PM
Pancakes
 
French toast
 
Dosa
 
Bagels
(Toasted, with melting butter, and some ham and relish)
 
@Vega That's not "continental" :)
 
5:13 PM
Last time my crèpes were frowned, I thought to bring something new ;)
 
Oh. I see.. I really like crèpes tough. With ham, cheese and oregano :)
 
Try masala dosa
 
I can't.. I'm allergic to anything masala. Even the word.
 
@Scratte that's pretty close to pizza :)
 
@Vickel But it's not. The bread makes all the difference and it's so nice when rolled up like a burrito :)
 
6:05 PM
@Scratte My personal approach to this (others may disagree) is that I treat the post as if I saw it in the Close Vote review queue. If I'd vote on the post from there, I do the same from here.
I also use the URRS, so that wouldn't mean piling on after it's already closed
 
@RyanM But that means one could post any zero-scored answer to be deleted here.
 
@Scratte I don't think so - that would be asking for downvotes, with no ability to agree with the request without downvoting
 
Don't ask room regulars for upvotes or downvotes, also don't even insinuate they should do so on a particular post. It's up to every user if they want to vote or not.
2
 
^^^^^
 
 
6:11 PM
@Dharman (I think an exception to this might be a situation like, "that post might merit a downvote if you think it's not good/lazy/whatever, but it's not worthy of a close/delete vote")
But yes, nothing I said was intended to suggest that posting a request that implies that downvotes should occur (with the exception of the one-downvote-away-from-deletion rule blessed by the rules/Shog's post) is okay
 
@hev1 It helps us if you add [tag:cv-pls] in front of your message.
 
@Scratte Yes, we permit making del-pls requests about posts which are a single downvote away from being able to be delete-voted, under the assumption that the person that will be delete-voting will feel that the post is also worth a downvote. That policy is based on Shog9's answer to: "Downvote in order to be able to vote to delete. Is it acceptable?"
 
Which is, I think, significantly different than "we should downvote this zero-scored answer until it can be delete-voted" (which, to be clear, is bad and we should not do this)
 
@Makyen OK. Sorry, I thought it had to already be at the point.
 
@RyanM If we did that we would be risking mods closing down this room.
 
6:16 PM
@Dharman Yep, to be 100% clear: I am not saying we should do that. I'm not even saying that it would be good even if it didn't risk mods shutting down the room.
 
@Scratte It was that way (must immediately qualify) for quite a while. The policy was updated after discussion and Shog9's answer, which I linked above. The thing that started this round of the discussion, the URRS showing a request as invalid that needed a single downvote, will be changed. I've already changed my local copy, but have not yet updated GitHub.
 
@Makyen I'm not using that script, sorry. I can't vote, so I figured I'd put it off until next Christmas.
 
@Makyen based on everything I've heard about your local improvements, I half expect it's sentient and judges the requests automatically :-)
 
@RyanM :)
@Scratte If the script makes your life easier, that's great. If you don't want to run it, that's, of course, perfectly fine. If the issue as to why you don't want to run it is something that the script does that you don't like, I would like to hear about it, so we can at least consider making changes to accommodate your needs/desires.
 
@Makyen I didn't try it, so I have no critique at all :) The reason is that I can't help with closing anyway, so I'd just feel bad seeing all those request that I can't do anything about.
 
6:29 PM
@Scratte OK. That sounds reasonable.
 
I'd note that, as with many of Makyen's userscripts, it does have a few benefits beyond just what it says in the name :-) it improves basically any link to a post by looking up information about it
it also adds diamonds to mod usernames, although this is a double-edged sword because it's only in the room(s?) where it's active :-p
 
@Dharman Thanks for the tip.
 
@RyanM I have my own user script for making moderator bold with bling ;) (Psst.. I took the important parts from Makyen's script :) I also added a special colour for room owners.
 
@RyanM Yeah, I'm in the process of having that broken out into a separate script, so it can run in all rooms, and added the feature of showing RO/moderator indicators to transcripts.
 
6:46 PM
Once you are a moderator you will have much more time to fiddle with those things :D
 
This looks like a duplicate to me. Do we have any SME to confirm? stackoverflow.com/q/62941368/1839439
 
Psst: moderators are already indicated in blue, and ROs are already indicated in italics.
 
@Scratte Ahhh... maybe?
 
@RyanM OP added some example. Thanks, it is now reproducible
 
@Makyen Only after you clear out all the flags ;-)
 
6:53 PM
@CodyGray But it helps when moderators are bold with bling. To know when to keep a low profile, or something :)
 
@akrun excellent, no problem. I assume this request should be binned (removed) then?
 
Who doesn't like bling, I guess.
 
@CodyGray Yeah, but that usurps the blue that is normally used to indicate links. It's also inconsistent with how moderators are indicated everywhere else on Stack Exchange. Why they changed it just for chat, I have no idea. They already had a defined indicator for moderators.
 
@RyanM yes,
 
6:54 PM
@CodyGray That should be ... interesting. :)
 
@Makyen I will not blame you, if you do not have time to modify or branch out things. Though I will be happy if you do.
 
@VLAZ Yes, I agree with that proposed clarification. Did you also know that I recently upgraded this Meta Q&A to a FAQ?
 
@blackgreen They should try PHP
 
@Dharman You believe that contains all necessary information?
 
@CodyGray No...
 
6:59 PM
yeah, I voted to reopen, although I'm now questioning if I got that right...it might be adequate, but I'm not certain
 

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