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Implemented Infraction System: *please* make it friendly to the enduser

Grover

Well-known member
#1
Well,

I've just received an infraction on a vB-related website (my 2nd overall in 9 years, so I am doing good ;)). It's no point sharing the details (but apparently I made a mistake by friendly inviting people over to XenForo...<-- okeee, *some* details then!), because I don't want to start a discussion that is not constructive.

But, I want to use this experience in a positive way and share my feelings/thoughts about the infraction system itself and why I think it doesn't work. We spoke about it before, but I thought to give it a thread on it's own (if that's okay):

Infraction systems are a good way to kill your forum's membership and to light up extra drama.
This is exactly my experience. For example: everytime I log into vB4's User Settings over at vbulletin.com, or even worse: my own profile!, the mention of the infraction I got over there months ago, glances at me. It is not making me feel welcome, is it? I know more people feel like this. That's why I never activated the whole thing on my own platform. Again, I have contributed many suggestions to remove it at least from the profile, but it was never picked up.
This was (and is) precisely what I think is so bad in vBulletin's implementation of it's Infraction System. It's obvious to see that XenForo has a strong social vision and if there ever comes a time that XenForo has some kind of Infraction System implemented, please take this into consideration. It is very simple (IMHO): on a social platform people do not want to be confronted with their past (or current) infractions every single time they go to their own profile.

Support please :).
 

Shelley

Well-known member
#2
Totally agree. Not only as you stated (above) but handing out an infraction for the minor occurrences/situations that may arise only fuels the situation and members feeling there's no way to claw back. I personally feel that (as you stated) xenforo is angled towards a social feel. I've always felt the infraction system (any for that matter) was a waste of time.

Maybe not so much an infraction system (if it ever gets implemented) but some kind of "watch member" system usable by admins & staff. Much like the report backend or something (not fully thought about it) so it's just words slipping from my mouth.
 

Shelby

Active member
#3
I would say, make it easier to moderate large forums. Easier to denote which reported posts have been resolved. A way to seperate reported posts. IE reported posts from X forums goto Y queue.
 
#4
Well,

I've just received an infraction on a vB-related website (my 2nd overall in 9 years, so I am doing good ;)). It's no point sharing the details (but apparently I made a mistake by friendly inviting people over to XenForo...<-- okeee, *some* details then!), because I don't want to start a discussion that is not constructive.

But, I want to use this experience in a positive way and share my feelings/thoughts about the infraction system itself and why I think it doesn't work. We spoke about it before, but I thought to give it a thread on it's own (if that's okay):

This was (and is) precisely what I think is so bad in vBulletin's implementation of it's Infraction System. It's obvious to see that XenForo has a strong social vision and if there ever comes a time that XenForo has some kind of Infraction System implemented, please take this into consideration. It is very simple (IMHO): on a social platform people do not want to be confronted with their past (or current) infractions every single time they go to their own profile.

Support please :).
I have to agree, infraction systems can bring out the troll in the most mature of members. I've seen on forums people who have 10,000+ posts who got an infraction make a thread to ban him/her for an infraction he/she recently got which wasn't that big of a deal [and the posts that the user made was actually quite informative etc]. Most people get disgusted with something hanging over their heads for a one time thing. Infractions, like suicide, is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.
 

Dean

Well-known member
#5
Support please :).
I don't like the way vb does it either. Do you have a specific suggestion?

Maybe:
  • keep the way vb does it now showing all transgressions while any active infractions/warnings are in effect
  • but hide the infractions in a corner of the users account where they could read them if they want, when none are active?
?
 

Brogan

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#6
I absolutely hate infractions and wouldn't implement such a system on my site.
It's like being made to stand in the corner for being naughty at school.

I stopped posting on a forum after 6,000 posts due to an infraction I received from a moderator who was well known for handing them out when people disagreed with him.

It's the best way I know of driving members away.
 

anotheralias

Well-known member
#7
I have to agree, I ditched them long ago - people react to them like they were punched in the face. It's far less traumatic to just send them a friendly PM explaining the spoiler policy (or whatever).
 

TrixieTang

Well-known member
#8
Why not make it so staff can infract users, but only staff can view infractions and infraction points, and members who receive infractions will simply get a "normal" PM sent from the staff member who issued the infraction. That way they'll be aware that they've broken the rules and received a warning PM from the staff, but they won't know the point value and won't have to see the infraction in their User CP or profile.

That way staff can have a system for keeping track of violations and handing out automatic bans and restrictions, and members won't have as much reason to get upset or leave if they receive a warning/infraction.
 
#9
I don't like infractions too, so do friends.

More infractions from such kid mods (their signature link webpage reflects most),
then more people go to facebook.

Developers must need to have a note.
 

Mythotical

Well-known member
#11
I would have to say that I agree an infraction system is great but not one that is built in. Let developers create it so that it can be expanded on more than the default if it was implemented.
 
#12
Here's what we did to make the infraction system less stingy for the members:
  • only the staff members can see the number of infractions and infraction points in the posts
  • after infractions expire, they are hidden from the user CP
  • the regular members see a placeholder ("this post is temporarily hidden") instead of the post content for a post with an infraction. The post author can still see and edit his post (the mod can elect to forbid the edit ability when issuing an infraction). Once the member edits his post, the infraction is automatically reversed and a reversal note is added to the infraction report thread in the special staff forum. The mod then has to check that the edited post does not break the rules anymore.
I must also add that without the infraction system we wouldn't be able to manage our 300+K member community with just a few mods/admins.
 
#13
Agree with Steve,

Most new elder/older users obey forum rules mostly.And maybe some minor fault but won't do big damage to forum.They like/love the forum and do join it.

For upper/senior or vip users, usually as groups for profits , in fact indeed.

So there will arise a problem:

Over-use or mis-use of such old infraction system by such kid mods will seem a headache problem.

Current infraction system may need re-design or let the issue go on.

(Finally,I think most developers have ever got infractions in big big forums. :D)
 

Ingenious

Well-known member
#14
I recently introduced infractions on my (vB) forum. The idea was, on paper, to easily notify members if their conduct was wrong, and also if they had posted in the wrong forum, off topic etc. To also save mods a lot of time, instead of sending PMs to members in a long drawn out process.

Oh dear, I lost a few members. As someone said above, people react to these like they've been punched in the face. I'm either going to have to drop them completely, or rewrite the infraction text to "dumb down" the impact.

But I do like the idea of automating things like telling a member they've posted in the wrong forum. Or off topic. Surely there can be an easy way to do this?

So my ideal infraction system would be:

  • Ability to send a member an automatic message from a list, to say they need to be aware of something (friendly note) like posting in the right forum, keeping threads on topic, not posting commercial links etc.
  • To keep some sort of record of this (for admin) so we can all see if a mod has dealt with it
  • Ability to issue a more serious infraction, like a yellow or red card. Yellow card is an official warning (get another and you are banned), red is banned.

The workaround in Xenforo would be mods to report a post then close it as dealt with, so they can notify other mods they have seen a problem - and send a message to that member to say what. But I'd like the messaging to the member part to be automated.

Having been impressed with the way the team here have come up with some nice ideas for other things, I'd also be open to seeing how they would approach this issue. ie. the need to streamline the process of guiding/warning members who need it and keeping track of this.
 

anotheralias

Well-known member
#15
I was going to mention this the other day and changed my mind but... what the hell. I wonder if it's the singling-out aspect of them that sets people off. You can't see who else got an infraction and for all practical purposes it looks like you're the only one - maybe people feel picked-on. Because you take a board like TWoP where the Mods just edit your post and move on, and people seem to take it better. Maybe because the evidence is everywhere that the Mods are smacking down people all the time?
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
#16
I was going to mention this the other day and changed my mind but... what the hell. I wonder if it's the singling-out aspect of them that sets people off. You can't see who else got an infraction and for all practical purposes it looks like you're the only one - maybe people feel picked-on. Because you take a board like TWoP where the Mods just edit your post and move on, and people seem to take it better. Maybe because the evidence is everywhere that the Mods are smacking down people all the time?
I think it was IPB? That allowed you to display warn level to everyone, and I noticed on a board I was on that members started going out of their way to -outdo- one another due to this.

I'm fine with an infraction system, though I never use them myself, even if theres a lot more work for me, I prefer to socialize outright with my members. 
 
#17
Quote from: Ingenious: .... act to these like they've been punched in the face. I'm either going to have to drop them completely, or rewrite the infraction text to "dumb down" the impact....
Agree, most impact on elder one ,but they have greater economical basis than young one.
(Hope no offending, just speak the fact.)

They are indeed our potential customers.We don't want to lose them or the invoices!
( Must diable the infractions system for safety.)
We use forums to give support to our clients; like Interspire,they have many private forums for customers only.

We team owns licenses for ipb3,aspformnet6.x,vb3-4pl1 forums scripts,testing on last year , results seem similar.
And our big partners decide not to renew any above license subscription now.
 
#19
I haven't heard anything about an infraction system in xF.
Great!
A closer road for XF success ....
Don't loose and the other 2 'dragon heads' companies seem have much finance in hand for years.Just my 2 cents only.
Good luck.




That's why we here and waiting for the 1st release.


(Not said by me but let the mouths of world prove it.) :)
 

anotheralias

Well-known member
#20
I think it was IPB? That allowed you to display warn level to everyone, and I noticed on a board I was on that members started going out of their way to -outdo- one another due to this.

I'm fine with an infraction system, though I never use them myself, even if theres a lot more work for me, I prefer to socialize outright with my members.
TWoP runs on "IP Board - IPS inc." I have no idea if that's IPB. And I think they also hand out infractions, because I've seen them say that someone's post was edited plus they got an infraction. But my point being, it's all pretty public. They don't send friendly little warning notes, they edit the posts with the reason it was edited. "Edited for boards-on-boards" etc.
 
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