Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 21
08-30-2012, 12:58 PM
Q is one of my pet hates (being as a being as inferior as him should not be able to survive)

He and "the squire" and the "organians" and any other non corporeals should not exist (as they are impossible)

But SW novels are no more canon that ST ones

and yes the star wars galaxy is walking distance due to the STATED on screen canon distance to kestel (14 parsecs)

Thus Even a Star fleet SHUTTLE is faster than any Starwars vessel

And of course silent space battles are exciting (never watched battlestar galactica?)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 214
# 22
08-30-2012, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post

But SW novels are no more canon that ST ones
actually yes they are... the IP owner gets to dictate what is or isn't canon... now Trek has decided that only the live action series and movies are canon while Lucas Arts has decided the EU books, comics and almost everything else IS canon unless they say it isn't... you may not like it but your opinion on what is or isn't canon doesn't matter...


Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post


and yes the star wars galaxy is walking distance due to the STATED on screen canon distance to kestel (14 parsecs)




Thus Even a Star fleet SHUTTLE is faster than any Starwars vessel

also no canon wise the SW galaxy is 120,000 light years across...the kessel run you are referring to is a tiny tiny little smuggling route so no it was never stated on screen the galaxy was 14 parsecs across.. it's just again you not seeming to understand what's going on or using common sense

common man before you keep arguing your nonsense and being wrong take 2 seconds to look these things up... it's all readily available


as I said if we go pure numbers, disregard deus ex machina, and don't specify any extenuating circumstances or plot devices SW wins flat out but that is still apples to oranges since neither IP's physics seem to fit with the others ... any other comparison is back to a fanfic story where what happens is dictated by plot devices or our own biases

Last edited by liquidacid29; 08-30-2012 at 01:16 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 23
08-30-2012, 01:13 PM
No the Kestel run is 12 parsecs

as to 120,000 light years across
can't be

if it was then everyone would die of old age before they reached alderan (at LIGHT SPEED)
the actual time indicates its about the same distance as earth to pluto

you are right its actually 12 parsecs (comes of watching that piece of crap exactly once over 25 years ago)

Last edited by sollvax; 08-30-2012 at 01:16 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 214
# 24
08-30-2012, 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
No the Kestel run ( a Run between the spice mines and TATTOOINE ) is 14 parsecs

as to 120,000 light years across
can't be

if it was then everyone would die of old age before they reached alderan (at LIGHT SPEED)
the actual time indicates its about the same distance as earth to pluto
no... the kessel run is a short run past a black hole cluster by kessel used to avoid patrols it has nothing to do with Tatooine at all... 120,000 LY is canon and them saying "go to lightspeed" is called a misnomer or a colloquialism.. if you don't understand what a misnomer or a colloquialism is I suggest you look them up
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 25
08-30-2012, 01:22 PM
even if it was the size of a Real galaxy (which it isn't)

the empires tech is Centuries behind starfleet
and the empires ships are SLOW

The USS Enterprise is faster than all of them

plus of course you can physically step out of the way of blaster bolts AFTER they are fired

The transporter would beam the entire ship into oblivion

AND the lack of the force would drive vader insane

the Empire was beaten and exterminated by a bunch of criminals , smugglers , terrorists and drop outs lead by a giant fish

oh and a black hole CLUSTER is physically impossible


How long do you think they would last against the Klingons??
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 214
# 26
08-30-2012, 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
even if it was the size of a Real galaxy (which it isn't)

the empires tech is Centuries behind starfleet
and the empires ships are SLOW

The USS Enterprise is faster than all of them

plus of course you can physically step out of the way of blaster bolts AFTER they are fired

The transporter would beam the entire ship into oblivion

AND the lack of the force would drive vader insane

the Empire was beaten and exterminated by a bunch of criminals , smugglers , terrorists and drop outs lead by a giant fish

oh and a black hole CLUSTER is physically impossible


How long do you think they would last against the Klingons??
yes obviously the fact that the fastest ships in Trek take 75 years to go 75000 light years and Star wars ships being able to do 120,000 lightyears in days means Trek ships are faster...

lol

Last edited by liquidacid29; 08-30-2012 at 01:33 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 121
# 27
08-30-2012, 01:36 PM
Wars are never won by an army. Really. An army can subdue people for a time.

Star Wars made this point themselves, as the gigantic dictatorial Empire was ultimately defeated by a weak bunch of rebels. In one mere generation (from Anakin to Luke). And that's not so much fiction as we would think. How long do our modern dictatorships last on our own small planet after all? A generation or two? All are ultimately defeated by a bunch of rebels, it's not sustainable if the people see examples for alternatives all the time.

Now Star Trek has a superior economic model, paired with a superior political model. An open alliance where members are protected and which has a truly democratic government. And most importantly, where the monetary system is abolished and poverty no longer exist (due to the replicator). Imagine the Empire would encounter them. The already grumbling populations of the Empires systems would instantly revolt and join the Federation, eating the Empire from within. They would be so busy trying to fight rebels everywhere the Federation could just sail in calmly and make friends. As they always do.

PS
The discussion fascinated me btw, is the hyperdrive is faster than the warp drive? A bit of internet searching made clear to me that data and film appearances of the hyperdrive are completely inconsistent on different occaisions. No one can claim they actually know because there is always some example that opposes it. I don't think Lucas really cared.
Give me the jump drive any day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 214
# 28
08-30-2012, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydaspes View Post

PS
The discussion fascinated me btw, is the hyperdrive is faster than the warp drive? A bit of internet searching made clear to me that data and film appearances of the hyperdrive are completely inconsistent on different occaisions. No one can claim they actually know because there is always some example that opposes it. I don't think Lucas really cared.
Give me the jump drive any day.
nah hyperdrive speeds are consistent and have canon values... your thinking Trek canon which is not how SW canon is handled... the speeds of hyperdrives are a little different than a flat value tho because they are going so fast that it's not a matter of speed but of having to not hit anything so it's more a matter what is in the way of you and your destination that you have to move around

in either case they both move "at the speed of plot" now in Trek they set the speeds of warp the way they are to fit plots where they need to make long journeys in space because they want that... in SW it's just an ends to a means as most of the story takes place on planets or what have you... each series bases and twists it's physics to fit the plot and type of story... Trek has always been about long journeys in space while Wars is about drama which mostly happen in fixed positions...

as I said the physics of the two don't really mix because they are not based around the same type of story or meant to accomplish the same goals

now they both fall short to the Asgard from StarGate... little ****ers popping from galaxy to galaxy in minutes in ships like it was a run to the corner store

and just be happy we at least have some figures to look at... FarScape and FireFly always pissed me off with never ever actually detailing FTL travel in them

Last edited by liquidacid29; 08-30-2012 at 02:20 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 380
# 29
08-30-2012, 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
even if it was the size of a Real galaxy (which it isn't)

the empires tech is Centuries behind starfleet
and the empires ships are SLOW

The USS Enterprise is faster than all of them

plus of course you can physically step out of the way of blaster bolts AFTER they are fired

The transporter would beam the entire ship into oblivion

AND the lack of the force would drive vader insane

the Empire was beaten and exterminated by a bunch of criminals , smugglers , terrorists and drop outs lead by a giant fish

oh and a black hole CLUSTER is physically impossible


How long do you think they would last against the Klingons??
The ships in SW, as far as engines go, are far superior than ST. They don't "jump to light speed", they actually bore a tunnel in space, similar to wormholes, with their engines and can traverse the galaxy within hours or days. If you're referring to being able to maneuver in a fight then yes, most ships in ST can out maneuver the larger heavy cruisers and dreadnaughts in SW. If you want argue shields and weapons, I won't indulge you. That argument can go either way because both sides can make up numbers about power output and warhead yield.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 214
# 30
08-30-2012, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allyoftheforce View Post
The ships in SW, as far as engines go, are far superior than ST. They don't "jump to light speed", they actually bore a tunnel in space, similar to wormholes, with their engines and can traverse the galaxy within hours or days. If you're referring to being able to maneuver in a fight then yes, most ships in ST can out maneuver the larger heavy cruisers and dreadnaughts in SW. If you want argue shields and weapons, I won't indulge you. That argument can go either way because both sides can make up numbers about power output and warhead yield.
lol ya a lot of the larger ships in SW seem to favor the battleship way of fighting... brute force over finesse... but also lets not forget the size differences... I mean in SW we have standard star destroys which are mid sized battleships at 1600 meters and command ships like the Executor at 19,000 meters... they're basically more like spacestations with hyperdrives than ships lol.... can't expect them to be as nimble as a 700 meter Sovereign class ... not to mention the mass and volume differences between most of the ST ships and SW ones because even in space the amount of energy for mass to thrust increases exponentially

on the small it's about the same... X-wings and Tie fighters are about as nimble as say the delta shuttle and whatnot... tho since SW ships use hyperdrive for FTL even over distances as short as to farther out moons from a planet (lol lazys) thus don't really need to go that fast in normal space I'd assume Trek ships are faster sublight...

although like I said all my sources for actual numbers are technical manuals which for SW are canon and for ST aren't canon can't really count on them for solid answers in a comparison

Last edited by liquidacid29; 08-30-2012 at 02:30 PM.
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