Alternate Timeline (Abramsverse) Question

Chrisdude

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Report this Jan. 23 2013, 5:12 pm

I have a question I hope someone here can help me with.


In the new timeline, the Enterprise NCC-1701 launched years later than in the original timeline. It was stated to be a new ship, and Pike was captain. But in the original timeline, April was captain before him. And original timeline Pike captained the ship years before it was even fully constructed in the new timeline.


Why would Nero's attack delay the construction and launch of the 1701?

Mitchz95

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Report this Jan. 23 2013, 8:08 pm

According to the writers, the reason Starfleet technology is so different in the Abramsverse is that scans of the Narada brought to Earth by survivors of the USS Kelvin, which inspired new ideas and ways of thinking among Starfleet's engineers. If that is correct, it's possible the conceptual design for the Constitution class was redesigned with this new technology, and the construction was pushed back as a result.


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Chrisdude

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Report this Jan. 25 2013, 1:18 pm

I suppose that's a reasonable explaination. A line of dialog wouldn't have hurt, though.

Gawain_VIII

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Report this Jan. 28 2013, 8:22 am

Quote: Chrisdude @ Jan. 25 2013, 1:18 pm

>

>I suppose that's a reasonable explaination. A line of dialog wouldn't have hurt, though.

>


Agreed.  Probably the best answer I've heard--and the only one that I've heard that even seems plausable.


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draeden06

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Report this Jan. 28 2013, 5:32 pm

Just my theory....


Somewhere around the time of the Kelvin incident, the Constitution class Enterprise is built with Robert April in command. This ship is the one we all know from the Original timeline. After the Narada attack, Starfleet has a massive military buildup that sparks an arms race and eventual war with the Klingons. This war war might still be raging at the time of the 2009 movie, because of the "fleet engaged in the Laurentian sector" reference.


 Sometime during this war, the Consitution class Enterprise is destroyed. By the time of the 2009 movie a new Enterprise is built. This ship is a hybrid of the technology that Starfleet would have had in the original timeline (example: the same saucer section) and tech unique to the alternate timelin.

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Jan. 29 2013, 12:45 am

Quote: Chrisdude @ Jan. 25 2013, 1:18 pm

> A line of dialog wouldn't have hurt, though.


I dont see how any such dialog would have seemed natural.No one in the new timeline would know that the launch was delayed.,


SAlso, I know most fans accept Captain April...........but hes not canon.


 


 


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Gawain_VIII

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Report this Jan. 29 2013, 5:55 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 29 2013, 12:45 am

>Also, I know most fans accept Captain April...........but hes not canon.


How so? TAS appeared on-screen, regardless of what GR and the production thought of it aftter-the-fact... it was made, it carried their name, and it was aired.  Sounds like a solid case to me.


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stovokor2000-A

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Report this Jan. 29 2013, 11:03 am

Quote: Gawain_VIII @ Jan. 29 2013, 5:55 am

>How so? TAS appeared on-screen, regardless of what GR and the production thought of it aftter-the-fact... it was made, it carried their name, and it was aired.  Sounds like a solid case to me.


It is unique in that it wasnt live action, much of it stands in VERY large contradiction to other established information.


Paramount even supported the idea that it was not canon when it athurized the star trek encyclopedia books which proclaimed to report on all offical canon.


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leroybrock

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 8:55 pm

I don't believe that saying they had inspiration from the scans was necessary. A Federation ship encountered an unknown, highly advanced, very large hostile ship in Federation space that tore its ass to pieces? Even ramming it with the Kelvin didn't do much good and now we don't know where the thing is?

That there is a pants-shitting report to read and probably made Starfleet more aggressive in developing technology and building tougher ships.

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 9:39 pm

Quote: leroybrock @ Jan. 30 2013, 8:55 pm

> That there is a pants-shitting report to read and probably made Starfleet more aggressive in developing technology and building tougher ships.


and lets not forget the obvious...........that hostilities with the romulans likely increased.


Even if the Romulan goverment denied knowing asnything, which would be the truth for them, its not likely everyone in the federation took things calmly.


I can see a few battles, or even a small war as a result of the Kelvins destruction.


 


 


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guillermo.mejía

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Report this Jan. 31 2013, 6:01 am

Quote: Gawain_VIII @ Jan. 29 2013, 5:55 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 29 2013, 12:45 am

>

>Also, I know most fans accept Captain April...........but hes not canon.

How so? TAS appeared on-screen, regardless of what GR and the production thought of it aftter-the-fact... it was made, it carried their name, and it was aired.  Sounds like a solid case to me.

Except there's several episodes which are in direct contradiction to established canon like "The Counter-Clock Incident" or "The Time Trap" or even "THe Magic of Megas-Tu" if you think about it.


Regardless of all that however, April has appeared in the first issue of the ongoing Countdown comic book mini-series for [i]Into Darkness[/i]. If April can appear on screen alive in the next movie, it only makes sense to assume he live in the Prime timeline, as he would have been born before Nero's arrival.


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draeden06

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Report this Jan. 31 2013, 12:37 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 30 2013, 9:39 pm

Quote: leroybrock @ Jan. 30 2013, 8:55 pm

>

> That there is a pants-shitting report to read and probably made Starfleet more aggressive in developing technology and building tougher ships.

and lets not forget the obvious...........that hostilities with the romulans likely increased.

Even if the Romulan goverment denied knowing asnything, which would be the truth for them, its not likely everyone in the federation took things calmly.

I can see a few battles, or even a small war as a result of the Kelvins destruction.

 

 


 


I haven't watched to movie in a while, but did Nero ever tell the crew of the Kelvin that he was Romulan? Both the Kelvin incident and the events of ST 2009 take place before the time of the "Balance of Terror" episode when everyone was shocked to learn that Romulans were related to Vulcans. So, Starfleet wouldn't have a reason to suspect that Romulans were responsible for the destruction of the Kelvin. 

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Jan. 31 2013, 2:10 pm

Quote: draeden06 @ Jan. 31 2013, 12:37 pm

>I haven't watched to movie in a while, but did Nero ever tell the crew of the Kelvin that he was Romulan? Both the Kelvin incident and the events of ST 2009 take place before the time of the "Balance of Terror" episode when everyone was shocked to learn that Romulans were related to Vulcans. So, Starfleet wouldn't have a reason to suspect that Romulans were responsible for the destruction of the Kelvin.


Again, you are for getting the obvious.


You are correct, Nero did not announce himself as a romulan, and yes, its before BOT, but the crew of the Kelvin did see what Neros crew LOOKED LIKED.


Sure, most would have first blamed Vulcans........but as Enterprise showed us, some Vulcasns in the hi-command already knew that the Romulans were related to Vulcans.............so I'm sure they would have disclosed the info about the romulan/vulcan connection if starflkeet blamed vulcan for the attack on the Kelvin.


Neros ship was a civilian ship, it would have had calling numbers,markings and other identifing marks.By this time starfleet already knew how to read some of the romulan language.


And lets not forget that later in the film, they did indeed have the knowlidge it was a romulan ship as Kirk mentions it in his evidence when he rushs to the bridge to warn Pike that going to Vulcan is a trap


So, either they got the info in the ways I suggested, of the klingons told the feds it was a romulan ship...either way the federation knew,


 


 


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Chrisdude

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Report this Jan. 31 2013, 7:17 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jan. 31 2013, 6:01 am

Quote: Gawain_VIII @ Jan. 29 2013, 5:55 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jan. 29 2013, 12:45 am

>

>

>Also, I know most fans accept Captain April...........but hes not canon.

How so? TAS appeared on-screen, regardless of what GR and the production thought of it aftter-the-fact... it was made, it carried their name, and it was aired.  Sounds like a solid case to me.

Except there's several episodes which are in direct contradiction to established canon like "The Counter-Clock Incident" or "The Time Trap" or even "THe Magic of Megas-Tu" if you think about it.

Regardless of all that however, April has appeared in the first issue of the ongoing Countdown comic book mini-series for [i]Into Darkness[/i]. If April can appear on screen alive in the next movie, it only makes sense to assume he live in the Prime timeline, as he would have been born before Nero's arrival.

Yeah. If he shows onscreen, he existed. However, I've never doubted TAS as canon. The way I see it, if later shows contradict TAS, that show made a mistake. And some TAS events have been acknowleged in later shows, anyway.


But regardless of April, the ship was still constructed later. And Pike was captain on its maiden voyage... Yet April was still captain of a ship called Enterprise before then...


Did Captain April, according to TAS, definitely captain the 1701? Or is it ambiguous enough to have been a different ship named Enterprise?

stovokor2000-A

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Report this Jan. 31 2013, 7:38 pm

Quote: guillermo.mejía @ Jan. 31 2013, 6:01 am

>Regardless of all that however, April has appeared in the first issue of the ongoing Countdown comic book mini-series for [i]Into Darkness[/i]. If April can appear on screen alive in the next movie, it only makes sense to assume he live in the Prime timeline, as he would have been born before Nero's arrival.

>


again, you are are citing a non-canon sourse, a comic book.


Trek comics have always been considered "non canon".


if he shows up in the film thats an other matter.


 


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