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  • In the extreme south of Black Marsh, there's a city called Lilmoth, which is presumably the place from where the Lilmothiit hailed. Now, I learned recently that the Khajiit are so called because the northern part of their home of Elsweyr is desert--"Khajiit" means "desert dwellers". So, I had an idea that the Lilmothiit may have spoken the Khajiit language (or vice versa) as the obvious origins of the name Lilmothiit is the city of Lilmoth, and presumably the suffix "-iit" refers to "dwellers", in which case "Lilmothiit" would simply mean "people of Lilmoth". Does anybody know any lore about the Lilmothiit or have anything to add about my theory?

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    • I just learned that "-iit" does indeed mean one who does something or one who lives in something. So that adds credibility to my theory.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Only what the wiki page say's here (they have a tiny UESP page here too).

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    • According to the pocket guide to the empire your assumption may be fairly valid. There is enough rooom to speculate that the Lilmothiit may have been related to Khajiit.

      "In additional to the reptilian Argonians, who are today Black Marsh's most visible denizen, there were once tribes of men - Kothringi, Orma, Yespest, Horwalli - and tribes of mer - the Barsaebic Ayleids and the Cantemiric Velothi - and even a tribe who may have been related to the Khajiit of Elsweyr, the vulpine Lilmothiit." Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd Edition

      Its also fair to note that they share the wanderers spirt with the Khajiit.

      "The southern coastal regions, not surprisingly, were the realms of the Lilmothiit, though they were a nomadic group and left few enduring signs of their existence that were not covered up by later civilizations." Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd Edition

      Perhaps Lilmoth doesnt specifically refer to the city of Lilmoth, perhaps it is the Ta'agra(Khajiit language) word for swamp.

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    • Maybe, but the word Lilmoth sounds more Argonian than Khajiiti in my opinion. I doubt that the Lilmothiit and the Khajiit are closely related (one is canine in nature, the other feline) but it seems likely that they had common ancestors, like real-life felids and canids, which are believed to have evolved from mammalian creatures somewhat resembling both cats and dogs.

      It would seem that history doesn't record any correlation betwen the Lilmothiit and the city of Lilmoth, but given the name and the wandering nature of the Lilmothiit, I think they probably at least dwelt there for a long time, if they weren't its natives.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • I know that the Lilmothiit definitely have connections to the city of Blackrose, which they founded. The trouble is, there's not nearly enough of anything to tell more about them. Maybe if the other provinces knew more about Black Marsh, or if there was more Argonian lore in the game, we might see more legends or artifacts of the Lilmothiit.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Lilmoth and Blackrose are fairly near to each other, though--near enough to both fit into the territory of the roving Lilmothiit.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Well here in the future we may have more information about them with the release of ESO. The Kothringi are defintely going to be in the game, the last survivors of the Knahaten flu fled on the Red ship into the western sea after being denied port in any city of Tamriel.

      Keeping that in mind, the Knahaten flu may have been what wiped the Limothiit out as well so there is a possiblity we may have more concrete record of what happened to them some time in the future. For now I think most of their history and lore is left to your imagination.

      However I will check The Infernal City, it takes place in Lilmoth and I think there was atleast one reference to the Lilmothiit.

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    • Okay, thanks, Banneram. And if some of the Kothringi survived, doesn't that mean that the Lilmothiit might have, too? Being apparently native to Black Marsh, you'd think they'd be somewhat similar to the Argonians, if only by living and evolving in the same environment.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • It's also possible that the Limothiit were wiped out much earlier, during the first era the Thrassian Plague ravaged Tamriel.

      "Traveling down the trade routes into the heart of Elsweyr, the plague decimated the Khajiit, forcing the survivors into roles they did not choose. Thus was the province turned from sixteen states to only two: Pa'alatiin and Ne Quin-al, more commonly known by their Cyrodilic names of Pellitine and Anequina." Pocket guide to the Empire 3rd edition

      The Limothiit may have been one of the 16 kingdoms that was wiped out by the plague. It's also important to remember that Khajiit vary wildly in their appearance, depending on the phasing of the moons during their birth. It is possible that some slight change in the orbit of the moons may have changed the chance of certain kinds of Khajiit being born.

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    • Banneram wrote:
      ...It's also important to remember that Khajiit vary wildly in their appearance, depending on the phasing of the moons during their birth. It is possible that some slight change in the orbit of the moons may have changed the chance of certain kinds of Khajiit being born.

      Why is this relevant?

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Banneram wrote:
      It's also possible that the Limothiit were wiped out much earlier, during the first era the Thrassian Plague ravaged Tamriel.

      "Traveling down the trade routes into the heart of Elsweyr, the plague decimated the Khajiit, forcing the survivors into roles they did not choose. Thus was the province turned from sixteen states to only two: Pa'alatiin and Ne Quin-al, more commonly known by their Cyrodilic names of Pellitine and Anequina." Pocket guide to the Empire 3rd edition

      The Limothiit may have been one of the 16 kingdoms that was wiped out by the plague.

      It's possible, but like I said, since the Lilmothiit live(d) in Black Marsh, it seems likely that they had similar immunities (to disease and poison) to the immunities of the Argonians, simply in order to continue living in that environment. It's also important to note that the Lilmothiit did live in Black Marsh and not Elsweyr, so the "16 kingdoms" thing is irrelevant. They could not have been in any of those kingdoms at the time of the outbreak. In addition, the Lilmothiit are/were a wandering race and I doubt that they would have settled down in a kingdom. However, I still think that this is a valid point--they could have died then.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • What I was trying to insinuate is that maybe the Lilmothiit kingdom itself was one of the 16 kingdoms, I dont think we have an actual map of 1 Era Elsyweyr and the break down of the kingdoms. Border lines are always shifting so maybe portions of Elsyweyr extended into Black Marsh, and the Lilmothiit were the ones who pushed the advance.

      And the reason I bring up the phasing of the moon I was trying to Infer that they could have been one of the subsets of Khajiit born under a different phase of the moon. Perhaps that lunar event no longer happens causing no more Lilmothiit to be born to Khajiit.

      This of course is 100% speculation and inference on my part.

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    • The Lilmothiit are canine and the Khajiit are feline. I think it's highly unlikely that one is a breed of another. However, the moons may have had something to do with the divergence of Khajiit and Lilmothiit from the common ancestors I imagined into potential exisitance.

      Also, I did a little digging and found that the Blackrose-Lilmoth area is actually on the other side of Black Marsh from Elsweyr. I don't think it's at all likely that Elsweyr ever extended that far. However, the Lilmothiit roving territory may have extended much further than that area, so they may have been in Elsweyr at the time. However, as I said, it seems unlikely that a nomadic tribal culture would be considered a "kingdom", and they probably left for new places after a little while.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Ok so, what we know about the Lilmothiit is that they were a nomadic tribe of vulpine looking Beastfolk, who lived in Black Marsh. Very little evidence of there existence remains.

      What we know about the Argonians (their closest Neighbors) is that they believe they were created by the Hist and that the Khahaten Flu didn't affect anyone of "reptilian stock"

      What we can deduce from this is:

      • That they were canine, the Khajiit being feline makes it very unlikely that these 2 races are related in anyway.
      • Being from Black Marsh they were probably killed of by the Khahaten Flu, if they were around for it at that time.
      • Being Nomadic in nature they could have just left Tamriel
      • if they were destroyed before the Khahaten Flu, the Hist may have had something to do with there demise(total speculation)

      Apart from this, we cannot really speculate much more without more evidence

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    • Wolfishtail wrote:
      Ok so, what we know about the Lilmothiit is that they were a nomadic tribe of vulpine looking Beastfolk, who lived in Black Marsh. Very little evidence of there existence remains.

      What we know about the Argonians (their closest Neighbors) is that they believe they were created by the Hist and that the Khahaten Flu didn't affect anyone of "reptilian stock"

      What we can deduce from this is:

      • That they were canine, the Khajiit being feline makes it very unlikely that these 2 races are related in anyway.
      • Being from Black Marsh they were probably killed of by the Khahaten Flu, if they were around for it at that time.
      • Being Nomadic in nature they could have just left Tamriel
      • if they were destroyed before the Khahaten Flu, the Hist may have had something to do with there demise(total speculation)

      Apart from this, we cannot really speculate much more without more evidence

      Well, modern felids and canids are descended from common ancestors (I'm talking way back, before the existence of humans or humanoids), so it's possible they might be related, if V E R Y distantly. And since they were from Black Marsh, it seems likely that they had some kind of immunity or resistance to most diseases, like the Argonians, from living in and adapting to such an environment.

      It seems likely that their language (if they even had a language of their own; different groups may have simply adopted the language most widely spoken in the area they happened to be in) had some relation or at least similarity to that of the Khajiit, owing to the suffix "-iit", meaning "dwellers", at the end of both names. That may be pure coincidence, but if not, the other component of the name "Lilmothiit" would indicate that they may have originated the city of Lilmoth, or at least dwelt there for some time.

      We also know that the Lilmothiit founded the city of Blackrose, and the distance between the two cities therefore gives us a good idea of their roaming territory. Combined with the fact that they may have had some contact with the Khajiit (as evidenced by the apparent language overlap), that would mean that the area in which they likely lived spans a large amount of southern Black Marsh. However, their territory likely fluctuated and may have shrunk over time.

      They may have been killed by the Khnaten Flu, as you say, but given that they lived seemingly exclusively in Black Marsh, it seems unlikely that they would be particularly susceptible to diseases. In addition, the Argonians' attitude towards the Lilmothiit at that time is unknown, and so we cannot say with any certainty that they had any hand in the demise of the Lilmothiit. It is true that they may have left the continent. And overall, I believe that we have more evidence than your post would seem to indicate. Thank you for posting, as this thread has been dead for a while and I'd like to see some more speculation and discussion on it. May you walk always on warm sands!

      -WorshipsMeridia

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    • Ok, I do understand the cainids and felids have common ancestors, but that would indicated a species that existed before khajiit and lilmothiit that evolved into the 2 races, but there would be more evidence of this and the mer would have records of this race, as they live for a long time. But they doesn't seem to be any so I don't think they are related.

      Granted originating from black marsh gave you better immunity to disease then most other races, but there were men living in black marsh at the time of the flu, and these men were completely different from the races of men you see today, and they were said to be completely destroyed. So it is probably safe to say that if the lilmothiit were around at the time they would have been destroyed.

      The only evidence of a language overlap is a single suffix, it is more likely that Lilmothiit is actually a khajiit word then a overlap of language.

      As they are nomadic, it is more reasonable to say that they left tamriel, the other option being that they became extinct

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    • May the Hist guide us.

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    • Yes, but if "Lilmothiit" is a Khajiit word, why are there no records telling us that it is the Khajiit name for the race?

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • How many records do we have of the race to start with? I'm just saying that if your going to claim that there is an overlap in the language your gonna need mor evidence then one suffix, and since that is only one bit of evidence to sunset it, it is more likely a khajiit word. Also the imperial geographic society, the ones who wrote the most on the lilmothiit in the pocket guide to the empire would have probably sent out agents or surveyors to gather their importation to write the book, who to say it wasn't a khajiit that discovered the existence of the lilmothiit?

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    • First off, I am not "claiming" anything. I am not saying that there is a language overlap. I am saying that there might be a language overlap. Thanks to your criticism, I find that it is more likely that there is not one. However, that is not proof, and so another round of speculation shall begin. I appreciate your input, as it was quite insightful. On a more argumentative note:

      If a Khajiit was the one who named the Lilmothiit, why would it not be mentioned that the name was given by a Khajiit scholar? And also, the only way I figured out that there might be a connection between the Lilmothiit and Lilmoth. Before they were named, there was no known connection between them and the city. So why would they be called that? Did the discoverer of the Lilmothiit find some connection that had not previously been seen? If so, why was the origin of the name not mentioned in the book? If I remember correctly, A Pocket Guide to the Empire includes much etymology - if the history of the name was known, it seems likely that it would have been included.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Ok, before I go any were with this, all I'm having is a discussion, this might not have been your intention, but you seem a little annoyed or angry because of this discussion and I apologies if I have made you feel like you have to be in this discussion, my intention is to just give the other side of the argument.

      Speculation is a the claim that you may think that a certain situation is the case, I'm sorry for any confusion.

      There are very few explorers/surveyors mentioned in any books, in fact I think I can only remember one, so I think it is very rare in the elder scrolls universe for that to happen unlike our world. That being said, there might not have been a connection with the city and race.

      Another thing we can say is that the Aldmer may have named them.

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    • Okay. I'm sorry as well, I sometimes get annoyed over little things that aren't really relevant to the issue and that I may be imagining. It's fine, and I will try to be calmer in the future.

      It is definitely a possiblity that there is no connection. It seems likely, though, and even if the person who named the race wasn't included I feel sure that if the author(s) of the book had known the origin of the name they would have included it. It is quite possible that "Lilmothiit" is what they called themselves.

      What makes you say that the Aldmer may have named them? I'm confused.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • I was just re-reading through this, and I had another idea. One must wonder if the Lilmothiit even existed.

      Could they have just been a tribe of Khajiit that settled in Black Marsh and time has eroded their memory, and anecdotal stories changed their appearance.

      It may be possible that no race, or tribe even existed, we only have a few references to the creatures in all of the expansive books and in game sources.

      We literally only have one line of reference to them directly, and that is in a pocket guide. Pocket guides, particularly the first one, are not 100% accurate in everything they say.

      Perhaps the Lilmothiit could be more akin to a cryptozoological beasts than anything that existed in lore.

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    • Do mythical creatures found cities?

      -WorshipsMeridia

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    • We have one reference to that line, and it could be anecdotal. One sentence does not prove an entire argument. Perhaps it has always been assumed that is was the Lilmothiit that founded Blackrose, yet that could have been passed down through word of mouth and taken as fact.

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    • That's certainly a possibility. It's quite interesting.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • It could be a fun little side project for someone to sit down and put together a list of these anecdotal races. There are other obvious races and creatures that are barely mentioned by traditional sources.

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    • True. The Tsaesci are mentioned in several places, but accounts vary and they have become something of a legend. I'm pretty sure they're not just mythical, though, since history and lore tell us they did invade. The other Akaviri races could be mythical, though, and I'm not sure about the Sload. But we know the Imga and the Tsaesci are real, yes?

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • On a more on-topic note, it's possible (assuming the Lilmothiit are real at all) that, due to the solitary nature of foxes, respect and privacy may have been very important components of Lilmothiit society. It certainly seems likely that in a society of vulpine people, individuality and respect for others and their wishes would be stressed. However, it is also possible that they also had elements of other canids, and since most canids are quite social it is possible that loyalty also had a major role in their culture, especially since a great many tribal societies in game and in real life place great significance on family, loyalty, and honor. I realize that this isn't based on much, though.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • The sload are real, as they appeared in redguard. The Tsaesci are real, but there not everything written about them might not be.

      The litmoghiit are referenced to live in tribes, that doesn't really fit a "private" lifestyle as in a tribe, everyone depends on everyone.

      Back to my point about the Aldmer, they were the first race to have a continent wide empire. So it is totally possible for them to have written records about the lilmothiit, and that name could be attributed to the Aldmer just like Argonian is the Imperial name for the Argonians and the Argonian name for them selves is Saxhleel.

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    • Ah, I see.

      Well, not a "private lifestyle", more of just a culture that emphasizes everybody's right to privacy. They all depend on each other, but when somebody wishes to do or have something, their reasons are their own and they have a right to go their own way. Like groups of humans - we help each other out, and obey the rules of the group, but we all do our own thing. What I'm talking about is a culture where each person's life revolves around whatever they want it to, and the others respect that.

      It's possible, but I don't think "Lilmothiit" sounds like an Aldmeri name.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • That could be possible, but if you see the behavior of packs of canines/felines there not exactly private from each other, they stay together and do everything together, in fact the only private thing they do that is common practice is to leave the pack and find a place to give birth.

      But that being said, you could say that in a lot of animals the males have dominance, and only consort with other males that they have a bond with, so the privacy of the society may be between the sexes, but this behavior is not that common in canine species

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    • Except in foxes, which is the only species they are explicitly compared to. As a nomadic society it seems likely they were tribal, but the were specifically vulpine, as opposed to generic canine. Fox traits probably dominated, with other canine traits such as the heirarchical packing behavior present but secondary.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • They are only said to be vulpine in appearance, not to exhibit vulpine behavior, wolves are classed as being vulpine in appearance but they are not in nature, so I think if there are any vulpine behavior attributed to the Lilmothiit, I reckon it will be secondary if there is any at all.

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    • It is totallt possible either way. But since they are clearly vulpine in nature, it seems likely to me that there is more to it than just appearance.

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    • I wouldn't say they are vulpine in nature, I would say that there is more evidence to say that this is not the case, and are only vulpine in appearance.

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    • What evidence is there that they are non-vulpine in nature?

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Well considering the fact that the argonians are called "lizard-men" by the empire but are more like amphibians as they breath water. So being called vulpine may indicate that they are just vulpine in appearance.

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    • So perhaps they could be more like dogs or wolves....it's a valid possibility. However, I though I should note that Argonians don't actually have any amphibian traits. Amphibians breathe moisture through their skin, while Argonians have gills like fish. Some amphibians do have gills, but since Argonians have scales they cannot breathe through their skins. Nitpicking, I know, but that's what this thread is all about - little bits of evidence.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Some amphibians do have gills

      Yeah, but they either grow up and no longer need them or are freshwater.

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    • True. I was just pointing out that it is a trait that appears in some amphibians, and alternate-universe creatures with amphibian traits could have gills as well.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Gills are also not a reptilian trait, which is what a lizard is, it's a fish trait. Plus I would like to see the reference that actually says that Argonians have gills in there necks, because I have never read that in in-game books/dialogue/anything lore related. So I am more inclined to think that Argonians are amphibians.

      Back to the Lilmothiit, I think they are more like wolves, as they are tribal in nature and a lot of wolf species are also nomadic, changeling there hunting grounds every season

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    • Okay. Cool. I would like that, actually. Wolves are cool. So, strict heirarchy, strict marital restrictions, probably a strong emphasis on family ties. I'll just have to bs it for the rest, I think.

      The wiki page says:

      Argonians have gills on their necks and are covered in scales. This gives Argonians the ability to breathe underwater, which has proven to be an advantage in combat with other races, especially in the swamps of Black Marsh.

      As I just pointed out, gills are not a solely fish trait but also an amphibian trait. However, the Argonians don't have gills because they are any specific type of creature, but because they evolved gills in order to survive better in their environment. I don't doubt that a species of bird could evolve gills if they needed gills to survive in their habitat.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Well, I searched in Vulpine and I had a overload of fox pictures.

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    • Yea but the wiki pages arnt always correct as anyone can edit them, in fact I just reverted some vandalism on the Argonian page. But back to my point, I only trust the wiki pages here if they have in-line references, and that part of the page doesn't have any references.

      I know you said that, what I'm saying is that it isn't a trait in lizards, and argonians are called lizards by the imperials when they are more amphibious in nature. Just like the Lilmothiit are called vulpine, but probably exhibit more wolf like traits.

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    • Argonians are descended from trees.They are not lizards.They look like them, but share no other similarities.And argonians do have gills.That page has said that for 2 years now.Also, the Argonian "hair" (the feather like things.) are actually gills, alot of salamanders have similiar growths during youth that they use to filter water so they can properly breath before they can use skin moisture or under-skin gills.So you can discern that argonians with "hair" are actually just young.

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    • ^^ Exactly. They are not reptiles, nor amphibians or fish. They are reptilian but that just means they have a reptile-like form. They are Argonians. However, the same is not true of all races in TES. The Khajiit are completely feline. The humans are humans, not just humanoid. I believe that the Lilmothiit are vulpine.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Nobody knows where the Khajiit or Lilmothiit originate from.Of the beast races, only the Argonians origins are known.The lilmothiit are vulpine in appearence.The khajiit could be descended from fish for all we know.It is a fantasy game after all.

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    • True, but the Khajiit show all signs of being a purely feline race.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Do they?Like argonians, they resemble cats in appearence but cats IRL are loners, not tribal.Except argonians resemble lizards.

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    • There are these creatures called lions, you see, which live in a slightly similar environment to the Khajiit. They are feline, and have a familial "pride" structure. *end sarcasm*

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Then say lions, there is more then 1 species of cat.Also, Khajiit seem to have multiple males in a tribe, in a lions pride there is only one male, excluding the cubs.

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    • Actually a pride of lions can have more then one male, the males can form groups called coalitions which are normally groups of lions that are brothers. These coalitions can also be in charge of more then one lioness pride and will all share the females. Sorry for being pedantic.

      The Khajiit Probably are a fully feline race, but sometimes things aren't what they seem, and this seems to be true with the Argonians and Lilmothiit

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    • True, but as far as I know a coalition is rare, but then again I don't live in a desert with lions.But still, only the Mane shows a similarity to a lion, and that is with the mane.(Never would have guessed.)

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    • There not extremely common but there not rare. And as you said the lions are the only species, but there is also the Hyena (I know they look like dogs, but they are actually feline) and I think there are others, but I will need to look them up

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    • Dude, it's a fantasy universe. They don't have to show every trait. The point is that the Khajiit are a feline race - lions aren't the only felids they share traits with. In Skyrim, they most resemble lynxes, and they look like jungle cats in Oblivion. (Maybe a reference to the fact that Cyrodiil was a rainforest in the older lore.) They are clearly and plainly feline, they are just a distinct species of felid that has different traits. Some Khajiit are quite literally tigers (at least physically). I don't think we can dispute their feline-ness. However, the Argonians are quite different. They have scales (reptilian), feathers (avian), gills (like fish or amphibians), and what appear to be breasts (mammalian). They seem to be their own type of creature, sharing traits with, yet distinct from other beings. The Lilmothiit, however, are a total mystery. We have no idea if they are more like the Khajiit - obviously canids, like the Khajiit are obviously felids - or the Argonians, in a class of their own. The only known physical description says they are vulpine in appearance - a specific type of canid. This could be based of an incomplete sighting of one or several Lilmothiit, or a full sighting of one Lilmothiit, or a full sighting of a group. It might be that the original sighting consisted of only one Lilmothiit who leaned towards the vulpine, while in reality the race was more diverse. Their appearance as a race is up to speculation, really. But we know that at least some of them are vulpine, and that's what I'm going on. Thoughts?

      - WorshipsMeridia

      P.S. Would either of you be willing to post in the thread "Nadia the khajiit welcomes you"? It's a roleplay thread of a sorts, but you should probably read it before posting because it doesn't really work like a typical roleplay thread. It's been hanging for a while and I'd like to revive it.

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    • Hyenas are their own species, they are closer to felines and vierrids than they are to dogs though.If you ask me, Khajiit seem more similar to tigers than lions in appearence.

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    • Wolfishtail wrote:
      There not extremely common but there not rare. And as you said the lions are the only species, but there is also the Hyena (I know they look like dogs, but they are actually feline) and I think there are others, but I will need to look them up

      Hyenas are not felids. They are not remotely in Felidae. They are related to mongooses and, I believe, civets. They are related to neither dogs nor cats. Please do more research before making your claims.-

      WorshipsMeridia

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    • Also, I never said that lions were the only social feline species. They are, though, I think.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • 71.61.178.23 wrote:
      Wolfishtail wrote:
      There not extremely common but there not rare. And as you said the lions are the only species, but there is also the Hyena (I know they look like dogs, but they are actually feline) and I think there are others, but I will need to look them up
      Hyenas are not felids. They are not remotely in Felidae. They are related to mongooses and, I believe, civets. They are related to neither dogs nor cats. Please do more research before making your claims.-

      WorshipsMeridia

      They are actually loosely related, but as I said, they are there own species.

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      Hyenas are their own species, they are closer to felines and vierrids than they are to dogs though.If you ask me, Khajiit seem more similar to tigers than lions in appearence.

      Appearance isn't important. They are a distinct species. The point is that they are feline.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      71.61.178.23 wrote:
      Wolfishtail wrote:
      There not extremely common but there not rare. And as you said the lions are the only species, but there is also the Hyena (I know they look like dogs, but they are actually feline) and I think there are others, but I will need to look them up
      Hyenas are not felids. They are not remotely in Felidae. They are related to mongooses and, I believe, civets. They are related to neither dogs nor cats. Please do more research before making your claims.-

      WorshipsMeridia

      They are actually loosely related, but as I said, they are there own species.

      Not just their own species - their own family, Hyaenidae. Not Felidae, or Canidae. They are related to cats, but they're also related to shrews. All mammals (and all creatures) are "related" to an extent.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • In APPEARENCE.Please, just present solid proof.They could be descended from fish, mammoths even the flying spaghetti monster.They could actually be a original species, descended from nothing, no evolution.

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    • They give birth to fully feline young. Also, just like felids, the males have barbs on, er, sensitive parts of their anatomy. They have whiskers. They are nocturnal (Night-Eye ability!). And generally, if a species is obviously feline in appearance and construction, it's pretty safe to say that they are feline. As far as physical stuff goes (which is all that determines species as far as I know), they have no non-feline traits.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • I did do my research, I was a safari ranger for 2 years for the Ulusaba game lodge, I know my bush animals, and I said they were feline as they are more related to cats then dogs, and for what I was saying it is a completely valid point so please do your own research to tell me that my point is not valid

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    • I did my research. I was sceptical that you had done yours. You referred to hyenas as felines, when they are not. They are related to felines, but we were discussing felines specifically. They are closer to being feline than not, but that does not mean that they are in the family Felidae, which is how I am defining felids for the purpouses of this discussion. I chose my words poorly, as well, for which I apologize.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • And to bring things back to the point, the Khajiit are totally feline, but the Lilmothiit just like the Argonians, look like one thing, but may actually be part of a different race

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    • 1.You don't know if they give birth to fully feline, young.There is no proof of that.

      2.So?Judging by the description, in comparision to sexual organ size, actual cats have much larger and more prominant barbs.

      3.Whiskers.Also going by hair, what feline race grows long hair on the head and disproportanially large facial hair, in both genders?

      4.Not all felids are nocturnal.In fact, very few are compared to the amount of non-nocturnal species.

      4.So argonians are lizards.Thats called assumption.

      5.What cats have disproportanially large facial and head hair, completely blue/red eyes, some species have no fur or tail, jaw and cheekbones, neck construction and others that I cannot remember.

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    • Look, this thread isn't even really about the Khajiit and they are as thoroughly feline as a fantasy race can be. It's blindingly obvious. Can we just drop the "are Khajiit actually cats" question and go back to the "are the Lilmothiit canids" question? Please?

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • I related hyena to felines as they are actually more feline then canine, yes they are part of there own family, but what I said was completely valid for the discussion we are having, something might appear to be one thing, but is actually more related to something else, telling me that they are part of the Hyaenidae family is just being pedantic, the underling point was still valid

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    • Wolfishtail wrote:
      And to bring things back to the point, the Khajiit are totally feline, but the Lilmothiit just like the Argonians, look like one thing, but may actually be part of a different race

      ^^

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    • They are vulpine in appearence.That is the only ingame lore we have.

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    • Wolfishtail wrote:
      I related hyena to felines as they are actually more feline then canine, yes they are part of there own family, but what I said was completely valid for the discussion we are having, something might appear to be one thing, but is actually more related to something else, telling me that they are part of the Hyaenidae family is just being pedantic, the underling point was still valid

      ....oh.

      I'm afraid I missed your point the first time around. I feel like an idiot now.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • First I must say I apologies for getting a bit annoyed, but please try and see the points being made, instead of saying something that isn't conducive to the discussion.

      Back to the discussion, the lilmothiit are said to be a nomadic tribal vulpine race, the routs we have gone down says that since they are tribal they are more like wolves because of there nomadic and tribal traits.

      But consider this, perhaps they are completely vulpine, and are only tribal during mating, and then become separate again afterwards?

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    • That seems highly unlikely. A tribe is a cohesive unit with a primitive government, usually familial. Temporary "mating tribes" don't really make sense as a unit. It's more likely that the tribes of the Lilmothiit were small and purely familial, like the small family groups foxes will sometimes form.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • 71.61.178.23 wrote:
      That seems highly unlikely. A tribe is a cohesive unit with a primitive government, usually familial. Temporary "mating tribes" don't really make sense as a unit. It's more likely that the tribes of the Lilmothiit were small and purely familial, like the small family groups foxes will sometimes form.

      - WorshipsMeridia

      Please!Stop assuming that they are exactly the same as foxes!

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    • I DIDN'T. I was replying to Wolfish about what their social structure would be like if they were fully vulpine. It was SPECULATIVE. They may or may not be fully vulpine. If they are, there are some possibilities that we decided to look into. Don't assume, yourself.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • It would work with there nomadic nature, and as you said if they were vulpine in nature, they could have been more solitary creatures

      Ps. I'm not saying I think this might be the case, I think they are more like wolves, and are tribal nomadic race I'm just adding a different perspective

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    • ......................You said "That's highly unlikely.".Hardly speculative.And if you are going to say "if they were" say it in the comment.

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    • Well, not all wolves are pack wolves - the maned wolf, a very foxy-looking species, is solitary. And like I said, foxes sometimes form family bands of three or so. So it's a bit flexible as to which they are more like and where they get there social structure. But generally, nomadic cultures tend to be tribal. It's just a question of whether that trait in the Lilmothiit comes from wolves or the family units of foxes.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Man of steak wrote:
      ......................You said "That's highly unlikely.".Hardly speculative.And if you are going to say "if they were" say it in the comment.

      Both Wolfish and I know that this is speculation. There is no need to specify. And "that's highly unlikely" is not "hardly speculative". It specifically refers to something that is a speculation or hypothesis, but that is not likely.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Banneram
      Banneram removed this reply because:
      Double post
      15:08, July 22, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Wut??? It ate my first post and then the post came back!! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to post both of those. I don't know how that happened - the first one disappeared before and I thought it was totally gone. I'm really sorry.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • But as you said in an earlier post, their society may be hugely reliant on privacy, i know we both think it is not the case anymore, but if we took that to the extreme, it could be the case that they are so private and only created tribes during a mating season.

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    • That's possible. It would be interesting, to have a race with a mating season or rut in TES. I think privacy plays a part in their culture, certainly, but I now also think that they have permanent, rather wolfy tribes.

      - WorshipsMeridia

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    • Nobody seems to know where this race has dissapeared to, so that could allow the writers of the lore to reenter them into it. For example, the wiki said that next to noone has been in the inner areas of Blackmarsh. The Argonians may be giving the last of the Lilmothiit race protection. The argonians are said to be very loyal and are generally portrayed as smugglers. It would be awesome to hike through The swamps of Black marsh with an argonian friend/guide searching for the Mysterious Lilmothiit. And once they are found, they are brought to Skyrim or Cyrodil to restore their race.

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    • Well I just want the chance to play as a different beastrace man thing as opposed to cats and lizard-tree-things

      I mean if I had any say at Bethesda I would press for there to be Limothiit in the next game, you know.

      Also, one thing that hasn't been discussed -- you guys know how the Khajiit are really good at sneaking around, and Argonians are really good at lockpicking and swimming around? Well I wonder what the Limothiit were good at?

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    • Well! A couple of you, firstly, need to calm down based on what I've read here.  That said, the question of whether Khajiit are cats or not is a valid one.  They may resemble cats but this is a fantasy world we are dealing with.  It is silly to try to fit its inhabitence into our idea of taxonomy (Carolus Linnaeus, anyone?) especially given the possible origins of the race.

      As for the Lilmothiit, have you considered going over to the official Bethesda forums and asking there where someone like Lady Nerevar might answer? Or perhaps ask her husband, MK? Just a thought...

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    • I may be beating a dead post here, but I just recently stumbled upon a book in ESO that makes mention of a "Strange tribe" that lived in Black Marsh along with the Argonians. And apparently there are a few religious artifacts left over from said tribe, one of which is a shovel.

      Unfortunately, the book only has this one short paragraph and doesn't go into any sort of detail.

      Maybe, just maybe, they're all just underground somewhere.

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    • It could be possible that the Lilmothiit could have broken up in to numerous cultures. Such as, an underground culture, one that traveled to another continent, exc. If an event devastating to the Lilmothiit happened, it would have been likely that they united and formed numerous different cultures, each one with their own way with dealing with said disaster.

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    • Also, on the subject of the "Strange tribe" that was mentioned. It could be possible that if that tribe were a group/culture of Lilmothiit that dug underground. They probably would have considered shovels, a tool that would have helped them to escape underground, to be a prized artifact. The fact that it was considered a religious artifact might support that the Lilmothiit split or atleast progressed into various cultures.

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    • Elder Scrolls 6 is rumored to be called Elder Scrolls Argonia, if that's the case, the Black Marsh is their homeland, maybe we could at least find out more about Lilmothiits in that game.

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    • Old thread but I would like to add my two cents on the Lilmothiit.

      In my opinion they are most likely... An akaviri race.

      In one source (I believe its the Pocket Guide too the Empire) when discussing akavir mentions that sailors of the oceans between Akavir and Tamriel will often be canine in appearence (or even like rodents)

      All things considered foxes are somewhat like small canines, and thus could even fit the rodent description as well if the people did not get a good look at them.

      And I may not be correct on this, but I think at least one location that has something to do with Lilmoth or the Lilmothiit had some sort of association with the Akaviri.

      And foxes are a popular aspect of real world asian mythologies so they wouldnt be out of place.

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    • A FANDOM user
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