Oral History of Darrell H. Y. Lum Session #3

Oral History Project

Bamboo Ridge Oral History Project
Darrell H. Y. Lum

Session #3

Preface

The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Darrell H. Y. Lum (DL) on June 10, 2022. The interview took place via Zoom, and was conducted by Misty Sanico (MS) for the Bamboo Ridge Oral History Project. This interview is part three of three sessions.

Darrell Lum and Misty Sanico have reviewed the transcript and have made corrections and emendations. This transcript has been edited for readability by the Bamboo Ridge Oral History Project. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose.

MS: This is Misty and Darrell, it is June 10, Friday and our third session for the interview. Last session, we talked about why you guys transitioned from doing Bamboo Ridge as a quarterly, but what prompted you to start doing special issues?

DL: Again, it was trying to do special issues or like standalone books because we felt it would have a longer shelf life. There wasn’t the journal masthead with a date on the front even if inside there was an indication that it was a Bamboo Ridge journal issue.

But we wanted the special issues or the individual authored books to have a longer life. Separate books, yeah? And I think that, to a certain extent, it worked better. The downside was that if we did one single author or themed issue, it eliminated the opportunity for writers to just send stuff in. You know we had to kind of weigh that against doing all this work and having a journal issue that really didn’t have a shelf life longer than maybe six months after it was released. So that was the reason.

MS: So, less opportunity for more writers if you are doing a special issue or a single author.

DL: It made sense to me because even though there was less opportunity for people to send stuff in, it was the next sort of logical step, right? If you submitted to the journal and were published several times, then the next logical step was to try to get a book by that author.

MS: I have so many questions from this question but wanted to comment and say that a lot of Bamboo Ridge’s most memorable books are their special collections. So, then you have these single author books, some of which are novels or collections. Or these special issues with a theme and they’re different from the regular journal. That kind of put you guys down a path of being sort of a combination press and a journal. You want to talk a little bit about that? Like Bamboo Ridge is unique in that it is so many things all at once.

DL: At some point along the line, after we’ve been doing it for ten years, I’m not sure when the single issues started. We realized it was a lot of work just to put out a regular issue of the journal. And you wanna see the effort that you put in pay off in ways that keeps the books in demand. That’s the logical consequence of the journals because it has a date on it just by definition and that Bamboo Ridge Journal of Hawai‘i Literature and Arts has a shelf life, so you know. And luckily so many of the books have gone on to a pretty long sales period before getting out of print.

MS: One of the issues that Joy had talked about before was that in categorizing Bamboo Ridge to the Library of Congress you guys are listed as a periodical, not as a press, so it’s harder to get your books registered with the Library of Congress because technically each book is an issue of something and not an individual book. It’s one of those things that is pretty unique about Bamboo Ridge.

Did you wanna talk about some of the consultants and people you’ve had come and talk to you along the way? What was it like as Bamboo Ridge was growing and you guys were doing what you thought was best for the press, for local writers and the literary community, cobbling together things you saw that were needed?

DL: I guess over the years we would go to these workshops and trainings and consultants because we were pretty lucky that the State Foundation [on Culture and the Arts] and Hawai‘i Community Foundation would sponsor these consultants about financial issues and there was folks from San Francisco Bay Area, whatever small press distribution or people affiliated with that, come and consult with us. It was useful to have another perspective, but even they realized that what we were doing was out of the expected structure of a journal or a press.

It was useful to have another perspective, but even they realized that what we were doing was out of the expected structure of a journal or a press.

They were surprised that even though Eric and I were listed as editors, there was no sort of editor-in-chief and that everything we did was so collaborative. I guess they felt that for the press to grow, it needed that sort of formal structure—of a board of directors, and an editor-in-chief, and associate editors, and the editor for poetry, and editor for prose—how most journals are structured. They even wanted to change the name.

They were surprised that even though Eric and I were listed as editors, there was no sort of editor-in-chief and that everything we did was so collaborative. I guess they felt that for the press to grow, it needed that sort of formal structure—of a board of directors, and an editor-in-chief, and associate editors, and the editor for poetry, and editor for prose—how most journals are structured. They even wanted to change the name.

We did go from Bamboo Ridge to the subtitled Journal of [Hawaiʻi] Literature and Arts, but they wanted it even more specific: “Journal of Asian American Literature.” They felt it had more of a focus on what we were, what they felt we were doing. Of course, we didn’t agree because to label it that way left out a lot of folks.

We did go from Bamboo Ridge to the subtitled Journal of [Hawaiʻi] Literature and Arts, but they wanted it even more specific: ‘Journal of Asian American Literature.’ They felt it had more of a focus on what we were, what they felt we were doing. Of course, we didn’t agree because to label it that way left out a lot of folks.

MS: Yeah, it would have.

DL: And you know, we in Hawai‘i, don’t really identify ourselves as Asian American as much as local. So that was interesting. The financial stuff was also, I guess we never had the smarts to develop, what do you call that, when you raise money for an endowment so the operating expenses can come off the interest made.

MS: Like some kind of trust?

DL: Yeah right, you know, so if you raise a couple of million dollars and then get that invested by some financial guy and it yields whatever 5% or 10% every year then you have a stable source of funding.

It may not be enough to fund the entire thing, but you know. So, we weren’t—You know, Eric and I cannot even sell sweet bread, right? [laughs] Or carnival scripts? And you expect us to raise money for an endowment.

MS: Fundraising has always been one of Bamboo Ridge’s challenges.

DL: Right. And so, that was, I guess our deficiency in terms of developing that part of the organization so that there’s sort of a stable foundation. Although at this point, I think there’s a stable foundation in the sense that a lot of folks know about Bamboo Ridge and support it.

We used to have annual fundraisers and events where we’d charge admission in order to raise funds. Maybe it’s because Eric and I are out of the picture [laughs] but the folks who are doing that side of it are much better at it than we were.

MS: Bamboo Ridge is very unique in its structure and the way it does things. Right now it’s very much like you said, a committee, very collaborative. Was the editorial board always like that? Where people would suggest ideas for special issues and ideas for single author issues, etc. Or was it more structured?

DL: Well, I guess ultimately it was always Eric and my shared decision, although we didn’t lack for suggestions and ideas. Probably from study group people who overlapped with the folks who did a lot of the grunt work of Bamboo Ridge. You know, you gotta listen to the people who are helping you out.

I don’t want to make it sound like it was a closed group, but because of Study Group, many times that’s where we got excited about stuff like Juliet Kono’s novels because we were seeing a couple chapters every month.

MS: What’s older, Study Group or Bamboo Ridge?

DL: Well, they both started at about the same time. I think we talked about the Talk Story conference, right? So, it was basically parallel with the conference and went on from there.

MS: Getting back to special issues or just issues in general, are there any that stick out to you? Like, in your long career with Bamboo Ridge, what issues stick out the most in your memory and why?

DL: The ones that stick out was always the one that you were working on [laughs] at the moment you know it’s, to me, every issue, the regular issues or single author issues, are special in the heat and the passion of putting it together and trying to do some editing without being too obtrusive. It’s that issue that is the most rewarding because you get that same kind of excitement about “Wow! This is really good. I wish I wrote this.” It was that kind of feeling that kept you going. Even though we didn’t enjoy particularly going through the big stacks of submissions.

MS: You guys are gonna do it all again pretty soon. [laughs]

DL: I know!

MS: I will make it as easy for you as I can, in terms of making sure it’s all in one file for you to just click and then put over here, “Yes.” Or put over here, “No.”

DL: Oh, thank you. [laughs]

Cathy Song used to be our Managing Editor for a little bit, and those were the days of shopping bags full of submissions. So, the Managing Editor had to go to the P.O. Box and take out all the paper envelopes. No electronic option at that time, right? And so, she’d put it in a Liberty House bag [laughs] and we would you know, get half for me, it was paper, half for Eric and then we’d read through the things and then exchange at some point. Quite primitive when you think about it, you know?

MS: You guys have seen so many young writers come through and get their start in Bamboo Ridge or get more experience with Bamboo Ridge. What kinds of things would turn your head when you were going through these stacks of submissions?

DL: Well, you’re looking for something that excites you and is interesting. Eric said after you go through the whole stack, sometimes you can’t figure out yes, no, or maybe. But he would always remind me, he’d say, “Without going through the stack again, which ones do you remember?” And that was good advice, which pieces were memorable.

I still remember when I was at the UH and Juliet Kono was doing her coursework for her Masters and I didn’t really know her at the time, but she knew I had an office on campus. She would come in practically every week with a poem or a couple of poems. And I didn’t really know her, but I just thought man, this woman is persistent, you know? [laughs] In fact, we rejected her several times before we finally began to publish her work. Sometimes Eric used to tease her, is that once you stop trying to write lyric poetry like the kind you learn in English class, then it became much better, right? Yeah, Juliet was prolific and persistent. And you gotta admire that.

MS: That was one of the first pieces of advice that you gave me, or that I’ve heard you give other people as well. That you need to just keep writing, write everything, write anything, and just keep writing.

So, no specific issue necessarily was a favorite or more memorable than another.

DL: Maybe Lee Cataluna. But that one was kind of different because, I can’t remember now, I think the Longs play was already in production. If I remember correctly there was a script first and then the book. But I might be mistaken, but they were basically developed at the same time, and we knew her more as a, at least in creative writing, we knew her more as a playwright, yeah?

MS: So that was a little more challenging than a regular issue, turning it from a play to a short story collection that you guys at the same time.

DL: Yeah, and you almost had to read the collection as a work that went from A to B right at that.

MS: It was a little bit like a novel in short stories, yeah?

DL: Yeah, yeah, you know you have to make sure that things linked up, you know at least a little bit.

MS: What about Issue #100? That one was very interesting ’cause you guys started doing micro fictions or flash fictions. You know, the really short, 100 words.

DL: Well, that was a offshoot of the website, right? Lanning Lee would have these monthly challenges and they would be either by length, like 100 words, or by subject matter or a keyword. I think the hundred word one was an interesting challenge because the rules that he established at the beginning was that it had to be exactly 100 words.

You know, so it sent everybody scurrying to insert an article or—[laughs]

MS: Or take an article out.

DL: Yeah, right, you know! But I think that was good because it got back the feeling of just writing for fun. Just because it’s good fun or trying to meet the challenge. And so, I think that helps. remove some of that sort of scary business about submitting your work. It becomes more like a challenge or a puzzle. See if you can do this.

MS: Tell us a little bit about some of the people you and Eric and Bamboo Ridge have known and worked with over the years. Who did you work with, who left an impression? It’s a big question. I know there are a lot of people who you would say left an impression.

DL: Well, I mean, yeah, you cannot ignore the role that Marie Hara and Steve Sumida and Arnold Hiura had in supporting Bamboo Ridge. As a matter of fact, at the very beginning, we weren’t eligible to be an independent nonprofit. At the very beginning, we were under the nonprofit status of Talk Story. They were instrumental in our being able to do what we wanted to do in terms of publishing. Even then we had to write for grants, but we had to submit it through Talk Story. So that was important.

At the very beginning, we were under the nonprofit status of Talk Story. They were instrumental in our being able to do what we wanted to do in terms of publishing. Even then we had to write for grants, but we had to submit it through Talk Story. So that was important.

And of course, Marie Hara, she’s such a kind person, but at the same time she was always there prodding you to get going or she would ask these questions that were challenging, but the way she said it was so gentle. But then after you think about it, “Wow, that’s a tough question” that’s challenging your aesthetic or challenging your vision. So yeah, she was good at that she could slide that question in there and you go, “Hm, I didn’t think of it that way.”

And of course, Marie Hara, she’s such a kind person, but at the same time she was always there prodding you to get going or she would ask these questions that were challenging, but the way she said it was so gentle.

MS: Anybody else you wanna mention or recollect who’s helped build Bamboo Ridge over the years?

DL: Well, Wing Tek Lum, of course. Gail Harada, I’m trying to think who else.

MS: You must have a funny Wing Tek Lum story. I’ve gotta hear it.

DL: [laughs] Oh, there’s lots of funny Wing Tek Lum stories.

This isn’t related to—well, he used to invite the Study Group to these Chinese dinners and of course, he would never tell you what the menu was and when people would ask he would say, “Just eat it. I’ll tell you later!”

Another Wing Tek Lum story. He was the first one to feed my infant daughter ice cream. Oh man, we were such timid and cautious parents and we wanted to raise the first kid the right way and not mess up her diet with white refined sugar and this and that. And so we go to Wing Tek Lum’s house and he grabs Lisa from my arms and just happy as punch takes her all around the house and points things out. And then next thing I know [laughs] he has a spoon and he’s feeding her ice cream! She never had ice cream before because, we said “no sugar.”

MS: Her eyes must have been wide like gasp! [laughs]

DL: Yeah! [laughs] Like, “What is this?” Yes. Yes!

MS: Darrell, you have two kids?

DL: Yeah.

MS: So second kid, by that time you was like, ah, whatever?

DL: Exactly, that’s yeah the second kid, the food fall down on the floor. That’s okay, you know. [laughs]

MS: Okay, how about Gail Harada? Any good stories about Gail and Bamboo Ridge?

DL: Well, I mean she’s one of those people who sort of has always been there from the beginning. You know? And not wanting to be in any kind of official position at the front. But boy she did a lot of work at the back. I mean, she’s still doing it!

MS: Yeah, Yep.

DL: Yeah, she’s helping Joy. Otherwise, I think Joy would have quit many years ago, if it wasn’t for Gail helping out and kind of reassuring her.

MS: You know, I think that the consultants, I understand why they would have been questioning how Bamboo Ridge works or functions without any kind of formal structure. And would Bamboo Ridge benefit, as an organization or a nonprofit, from having a clear structure? In some ways yes, but in some ways I wanna say no.

DL: Yeah.

MS: I think Bamboo Ridge has lasted this long and been this strong because you guys were pretty egalitarian and you played to everybody’s strengths.

DL: Yeah, yeah and I guess we could give all these folks official titles and put them on the copyright page and all of that but, I don’t know, my sense of it is that most of them wouldn’t want that. You know?

MS: I think that also fosters some unnecessary competitiveness. Maybe?

DL: Yeah, yeah.

MS: I think that it works. Bamboo Ridge’s magic formula just works.

DL: Yeah, because if your name appeared, then you become an insider, right? So, if your name appears there and your work appears in the journal itself, then you open yourself up for criticism.

MS: I did want to talk about Sun and Pass On, No Pass Back!, your two books. So, let’s talk about Sun first. Did you design the cover or—?

DL: It was my senior honors thesis.

MS: That’s right.

DL: So yeah, the original project was to handset the entire book. But after about two or three pages of hand setting, I thought, “Man this isn’t gonna work!” Then I silkscreened the covers and the title page.

And again, you learn every time. Because stupid. The title page on the inside was not completely dry—or I didn’t realize that the silk screen, it’s just a half-circle, but the silkscreen ink didn’t dry completely and the pages stuck together to the flyleaf and then I thought, “Aw, man!”

Then I had to put a little piece of wax paper in like—I guess nowadays it’s fancy because they have these flyleaves that are tissue. You know? [laughs] Wax paper does not qualify as tissue flyleaf.

MS: That brings up an interesting question. Your early issues were very tactile. Did you miss that experience? I mean, how did that enrich your experience of creating an issue when it was more tactile for you versus fifteen years later, when it was pretty much just computer files going to the printer?

DL: Uh, hmm.

MS: Or were you like, “Thank goodness I don’t have to do any of this cutting out letters anymore.” [laughs]

DL: Oh well, the first issues that were saddle stitched weren’t computer generated. It was typeset by Linotype. The line-by-line slugs of lead. And we were lucky because my office on campus was next door to Bow Press. And Bow Press was the guys who put together Ka Leo, and so again before the computer-generated typesetting there was a Linotype machine in Bow Press. So, the operator was kind enough to do my book as a kind of a side job after I discovered that in the Art department graphics lab, they had all the regular typecases to handset type—that was one of the things they taught because they wanted you to learn how it was done in the Gutenberg days, right? But there wasn’t enough type to set more than about three or four pages. So, then you’d have to break down the type and put all the letters back in the case with all the little compartments and then start over.

Luckily the Linotype guy at Bow Press agreed to typeset the rest of the book. Which was much easier ’cause—well, each page became, a, whatever, forty slugs of lead, and our department had a proofing press. You know, the one where you put a piece of paper down and you ink the proofing press and then you print page by page. I don’t know how many copies of the book I did that way. And then I learned how to do the bookbinding from one of the teachers. It was a very do-it-yourself process. But kind of good fun.

This is an aside, but I was remembered in the Art department, Visual Design majors, as the guy who did the kinetic sculpture of kanten. Kanten is agar-agar, you know, like Jell-O. And the assignment was you had to do a kinetic sculpture. So, everybody is doing windmill kind of things in mobiles and things that spun around and I thought, “Well, I’m going to do something different,” and so I made a mold and a stand and bought a lot of kanten. Because even if it wasn’t refrigerated, it kept its shape. And I made many batches of kanten and poured it into the molds until I had a cubic foot of kanten. And what made it kinetic was that if you touched it [laughs] the thing went, [makes a “chukachu” sound] you know, jiggle!

MS: That says a lot about you Darrell.

DL: I don’t know. [laughs]

Well, the end of the story was that the teacher liked it, the class liked it and I left it on display in the design lab. And after a while mold started to grow and it was very pretty! [laughs] It was white and gray and kind of purple and pink, you know?

Yeah, and the whole thing started to rot. [laughs] But until then, it was kinetic just because it jiggled and it was kinetic because things were growing on it.

MS: I’m going to come back to your second book, but did you guys ever get handwritten submissions initially? Were they typed with typewriter or, you know, the Xerox kind?

DL: Well, most were typed and occasionally we’d get a handwritten one. Like handwritten ones on folder paper. As a matter of fact, we actually accepted one that was so sort of poorly submitted. It was like, why bother with a cover letter and it was just a little envelope with a folded paper.

But, yeah, most people typed and included a cover letter and that kind of stuff.

MS: Good yeah. Okay, so tell me about your second book, Pass On, No Pass Back!

DL: It was just a collection of stuff I had written up to that point. I did ask Arthur Kodani to do the artwork because he was a Kawananakoa Intermediate School classmate. And I think I told you he used to draw on the desk and stuff. I don’t know if I told you he teaches Jeet Kun Do.

That’s what Bruce Lee practices. And so, they practice on this tree trunk, you might have seen it in movies and stuff. But it’s a piece of tree trunk that has these big pegs sticking out of it and they practice hitting the peg and doing motions that treat the trunk and the pegs as an attacker. It’s quite interesting and kind of scary when you see them practice, you know? It’s like wow, the whole thing shakes and I keep thinking it must hurt when they hit that thing. That’s Arthur Kodani. He did the illustrations and the cover.

MS: It’s a very different cover from anything else Bamboo Ridge has. It’s such a happy cover. It really reflects the joy in the stories.

DL: And there’s all those little details, right? And he drew the pass on, no pass back—somebody is punching a girl or something.

MS: Yeah, he really captured the content of that book, so it was a really good reflection of your work. I think it melded well together. I did not know that he was a martial arts practitioner, but I heard somebody in Bamboo Ridge is a Qi Gong master, no? I don’t know where I heard that. [laughs]

DL: No, uh. I think Lanning Lee has practiced for a long time, but I don’t know if he’s a master, I mean he’s not part of Study Group and all that but I do know he does practice.

MS: The Bamboo Ridge ʻOhana is pretty wide, pretty big. Some people are in Study Group, some people are just something else.

What’s interesting to me is, and this is from a marketing standpoint, but whenever I mention you or Eric everybody goes bananas. Like I could be doing all kinds of things on social media and the website and I get crickets, [laughs] but as soon as I mention the founding editors, all of a sudden, I’m getting messages and people are liking posts. So, I think, “Ho! I should just do Eric and Darrell everything, all the time.”

Anyway, I’m curious what the reception was for Pass On, No Pass Back! Talk about when you did readings for it since people just love to hear you, Darrell!

DL: Yes, I did readings. Doing the Pidgin was good fun and obviously in Sun, I wasn’t brave enough to try to carry the entire book, and so there’s that awkward shift to standard English in that one. But in Pass On, No Pass Back

MS: You could tell you had fun with it.

DL: Yeah, you know, you gain confidence. And if you looked at it carefully, there’s a lot of inconsistencies in the way the Pidgin is, but at some point you gotta just say, “Ah, this is just the way it is.”

And technically, the folks who were doing copy editing and whatever editing, pointed out all the inconsistencies and at the time I thought, well, I think it reads better when you go more standard. It reads faster. The idea at the time was to introduce the Pidgin early on and then pretty quickly go to pretty much standard English but the dialogue parts, of course, were Pidgin. So that was the idea, you know. Now I do any kine, I no care.

MS: I think the difference with some of the things that you write now, especially for “Boy and Uncle,” is it’s mostly all dialogue. So, there’s gonna be a lot of Pidgin and it can be any kine because, I feel like from one moment to the next sometimes people’s Pidgin changes. You know, depending on the mood or whatever.

DL: But even then, you know sometimes I have to figure out, should I spell something in the standard English way? You know, D-E-R-E, “dere” basically as opposed to T-H-E-R-E or T-H-E-I-R. You know that kind of stuff—‘cause you can’t put up too many blocks for the reader. I still think that. But then, I don’t know. [laughs]

MS: Do you think you have another collection in you?

DL: Nah, too much work. [laughs] I do think maybe I have a play. From the “Boy and Uncle” pieces.

I told you about Rakugo, right? The traditional Rakugo has a fan, a Japanese fan you hold up and also a prop like a handkerchief. Well, I don’t know what you call it. You can tie it into a sweatband. And there’s a little table.

MS: It’s like the back and forth conversation.

DL: Yeah, and it’s a one-man show. I was thinking instead of the little table, I’ll have a hibachi.

MS: Oh, my goodness, that’s so great.

DL: And a ti leaf and the other prop is, you know, he comes in with slippers with zori. But then it becomes another prop. So, anyway—

MS: Go for it!

DL: Yes, that’s what I want to do with the “Boy and Uncle” pieces and try to find a thread that might go through them.

MS: Yeah, connect some of them. You do have some that are related. You had the medicine one and then you know some of the COVID ones.

Okay, a couple years ago you and Eric were recognized by the Hawai‘i Literary Arts Council for your achievements or your contributions to the literary community. Wanna talk a little bit about getting that award? I know you said, you told me it just made you feel old but—

DL: There’s a lot of truth to that in terms of being old, and I mean it in kind of a positive way. If you stick around long enough, maybe you will have the effect of doing something that people appreciate and enjoy, and hopefully editorial-wise, it means not sort of shying away from difficult things.

There’s a lot of truth to that in terms of being old, and I mean it in kind of a positive way. If you stick around long enough, maybe you will have the effect of doing something that people appreciate and enjoy, and hopefully editorial-wise, it means not sort of shying away from difficult things.

And that’s what I hope. That the new editors will continue to have the courage to do that. So that’s what I like about what you guys are doing. You’re sort of forging new paths. I feel like at the core is still that centeredness in focusing on work that’s about who we are and where we live and what things we think about or struggle with, right?

And that’s what I hope. That the new editors will continue to have the courage to do that. So that’s what I like about what you guys are doing. You’re sort of forging new paths. I feel like at the core is still that centeredness in focusing on work that’s about who we are and where we live and what things we think about or struggle with, right?

MS: The 45th anniversary is coming up next year [2023]. You guys are editing a special issue [#124] for that. We talked a little bit about the impact Bamboo Ridge has had. Maybe talk a little bit more, looking back forty-five years, what the impact has been and what are you most proud of?

DL: I think the impact is probably for other people to figure out, but you know, like I said, there’s something to be said for sticking around and being able to publish stuff that we like and that others like or can appreciate and understand. I don’t think editing the 45th anniversary issue is not so much looking back but looking forward really. You know, I mean, it’s like, “Hey guys, sending stuff in and let’s have a go at it.”

I mean, I do kind of wish there was a way to invite all the old guys to submit something. You know Issue 1, Issue 2, whatever.

MS: Maybe we could send a special invitation out to people who have been published already and just say you know, the editors, the founding editors who are returning, like Return of the Jedi, are wanting submissions from previous contributors so please send in something.

DL: Let me kind of [laughs] throwing it out into the universe and see.

MS: See what we might get versus just saying, “Hey, we’re open for submissions, founding editors are returning.” From what I’ve seen of the emails, you guys have a pretty healthy amount that have been submitted already and we’ve still got a few more weeks to go until the deadline.

Okay, well when you think about now compared to then how do you think things have changed? Or what remains the same? Maybe what do you hope will change? Or what do you hope will remain the same? You kind of answered that a little bit too already, but—

DL: Well, like I said, what has changed in terms of publishing and getting read, I think there are many more options now. When you think about it, you don’t really need Bamboo Ridge, to be read. I do think that Bamboo Ridge represents a particular kind of aesthetic and appreciation of language and culture and place that continues to be at the core of what we do.

One of the questions at that Nisei Veterans’ thing was, “Can people on the mainland submit?” Or even if you don’t live in Hawai‘i, can you submit and that has never been an issue with us and content-wise, you don’t have to write about placing the piece in Hawai‘i. As a matter of fact, people can look at all the issues and see that they aren’t all necessarily placed in Hawai‘i.

I mean that goes back to a long time ago, there was an accusation that Bamboo Ridge only publishes Japanese and Chinese Americans to the omission of Native Hawaiians and Filipinos. And I challenged that. I went back to all the old issues and the pieces that I could, that I knew of personally and could identify their ethnicity, I actually counted.

You know at the time the UH used to publish the ethnic distribution in their schedule of courses ’cause there was some requirement for them to do that. And the publication, you don’t know everybody’s ethnicity, but you can guess a little bit by the names. And it basically mirrored the distribution of UH students.

Now that’s not to say that that’s the end all because you know it’d be good if there were more diversity, when you think about it, submitting a lettered journal is like going to college. It’s not an activity that you would just pick up as a hobby. So, I felt that we were at least on the right track. That we could address those issues and feel that we were not, at least deliberately, ignoring whole groups of people.

MS: Yeah, big portions of the community.

DL: So anyway, as that issue got tossed around somebody said, “Wow! In one fell swoop, you guys went from the radical outsiders to the canonical insiders.” [laughs] How did that happen? There was no in-between! So, you gotta accept the arrows when they come.

MS: You’ve mentioned that Bamboo Ridge when it started was giving people a platform, a way to get their writing out into the world, and now days it’s easier to do that. But like you said, Bamboo Ridge is still needed. It still does what it does best. What else can Bamboo Ridge do going forward? Or how do you think we can continue in the next forty-five years to elevate Hawai‘i writers? Because like you said, there’s a lot of things now, they don’t necessarily need us.

DL: I think there’s still a need for an opportunity for people to tell their story without starting off with a particular label like this is a native Hawaiian story, or this is a Filipino Waipahu story. It’s just a story that you wanna tell, and I think that need is still there to give an opportunity for folks to tell their story. You know? Because we’re not defined as Journal for Filipino Americans or Native or—

So, in that sense, I think there’s still a need and opportunity. We just provide an opportunity for people to tell their story. And I think there’s still a place and a need for that because popular media, television, plays, and movies—there still isn’t enough of it that is authentic to me. Hawaii Five-0 is still goofy as ever. [laughs] Right?

So, in that sense, I think there’s still a need and opportunity. We just provide an opportunity for people to tell their story. And I think there’s still a place and a need for that because popular media, television, plays, and movies—there still isn’t enough of it that is authentic to me.

MS: I think it’s one of those things where they take bits and pieces that they find interesting about our communities and our cultures and then do their rendition of it. It’s a parody. It’s a collage of their own choosing. It doesn’t necessarily, like you said, reflect the authenticity, or the issues that we have here.

DL: Yeah yeah, that’s true well. I don’t know if people actually do see it as parody, because I think a lot of viewers see it as reality, as truth. “That must be what Hawai‘i is like.”

MS: But we all know in Hawai‘i, right? No way!

DL: [laughs] Yeah, how can they go from Sandy Beach to the airport so fast?!

MS: So, I think unless you want to talk about any other things—

But you’ve spent a lifetime practically, doing Bamboo Ridge, and that is not something we can just wrap up in only three sessions. I mean, yes, it is, I guess, but at the same time I feel like I owe you more than that. I feel like you should be doing six sessions.

DL: Pau already. [laughs] I’ve said too much!

MS: I asked all of the planned questions. I asked some of my own, a lot of my own, but I’m just leaving it open to you if you want to talk about anything else. No?

DL: You do stuff for that many years, you might not even know exactly why, but it is rewarding and fulfilling. In the middle of all the grunt work and sticking down little words and letters or whatever, there must have been something that made it worthwhile. And for me, I think it was worth it. It was a kick to work with Eric and all the other folks, some of them unexpected supporters. So, I think people recognize that like Juliet Kono coming in with another poem, that persistence and patience is sort of what’s at the heart of it.

You do stuff for that many years, you might not even know exactly why, but it is rewarding and fulfilling. In the middle of all the grunt work and sticking down little words and letters or whatever, there must have been something that made it worthwhile. And for me, I think it was worth it. It was a kick to work with Eric and all the other folks, some of them unexpected supporters.

MS: I agree. I can tell you firsthand I have no idea why I’m still here doing all these things. I can’t explain it other than that Bamboo Ridge is worth something and you just keep going as long as you have the people around you who also keep going.

DL: Yeah, so now they’re going to say. “Chock and Lum, those stubborn old Pākē men.” [laughs]

MS: If you gather up all the Bamboo Ridge books that you have and you put them on your shelf it’s amazing to see that that’s what you guys did. That’s what you guys have created, you know?

What is it like to see all of these books that you have put into the world, sitting on a shelf? Because that was the whole point, right? To get these words out that you guys wanted to read and that nobody else wanted to put out into the world. So, you did it. And there it is, right in front of you. Forty-five years of books.

DL: Yeah, yeah. So that’s good. I think what’s equally important is the database that you can search and then the audio tapes—

MS: These are all works-in-progress for the website at the moment.

They are very priceless things. I did want to ask you, I forgot about this when we were talking about people in Bamboo Ridge and some of your memories of people that you’ve worked with, can you talk a little bit about the spouses really quick?

When I first started volunteering or hanging out with you guys more, I also got to know your spouses. What role did the spouses play, a big role, in supporting Bamboo Ridge? We should talk a little bit and give them some of our love here.

DL: Oh boy, that’s the hidden treasure chest of Bamboo Ridge, all the very patient and supportive spouses who must shake their head sometimes at us and say, “What the hell are you doing?” [laughs] It’s like, “Here we go again,” and there’s another event, or there’s another fundraiser. And I mean Chi Ping Lum used to donate her jewelry or her handmade bead work to the fundraisers and Ghislaine and her weaving pieces. It’s the unsung heroes or heroines.

Oh boy, that’s the hidden treasure chest of Bamboo Ridge, all the very patient and supportive spouses who must shake their head sometimes at us and say, “What the hell are you doing?” [laughs] It’s like, “Here we go again,” and there’s another event, or there’s another fundraiser.

MS: The backbones of Bamboo Ridge. You guys are the handsome faces and then the spouses are what’s keeping you guys going.

DL: [laughs] Yeah. And I’m sure if they get together, they just shake their heads and say, “Man, what are we doing? What are our husbands doing? [laughs] When is this gonna end?

MS: Yeah, I mean it took you guys a little while to decide if you were gonna retire—

DL: Eric used to quit every other year anyway, you know? [laughs] But I did enough to make him feel guilty or something—

MS: Well, we’re lucky to have you both for this 45th anniversary issue, I think.

This is a personal, craft question. How do you decide what to write and what to let go? I have all these ideas and then I can’t really pick something and stick to it. Or I write little bit, like thousand words and that’s it, pau.

DL: It beats me. [laughs] I have a lot of thousand-word sort of rubbish. A lot of thousand-word hibachi starters. But you never know, you know? You never know—

MS: You just gotta keep starting it then.

DL: Yeah, and some of them will go a little bit farther but for me I try to turn off the editing voice. You gotta shut that guy off and just write it. In my case, it’s mostly just to write the character.

MS: Just go for it.

DL: Yeah, kind of. Go until it sort of runs out. Then you hop on another idea.

MS: Or cast another fishing line, like you said.

DL: Yeah. But then there’s no harm in just doing the Bamboo Shoots monthly writing prompts or the Kumu Kahua Try Play Write one is good. They had some good prompts every month.

When I see the prompt I try to do something. I might not send it in, but I try.

MS: Okay, well if you have nothing else—

DL: I appreciate all that you do [laughs]—that you continue to do.

MS: Of course, like I said, I don’t even know what compels me. A lot of it is for you guys. [laughs] I can’t tell you guys no, I couldn’t tell Joy no. Ever.

DL: Well, nobody can tell Joy no.

MS: I can’t even tell Wing Tek no, ’cause he would just laugh at me and ask me again.

DL: [laughs] Yeah, that’s it!

[END OF INTERVIEW]
Back to Session #2

Darrell H. Y. Lum is a fiction writer and playwright. He, along with Eric Chock, founded Bamboo Ridge Press in 1978 and both served as editors for 37 years. He is a retired academic advisor from UH-Mānoa. He has published several works for children and two short story collections, Sun: Short Stories (1980) and Pass On, No Pass Back (which received the 1992 Association for Asian American Studies National Book Award and the 1991 Elliot Cades Award for Literature).

Misty-Lynn Sanico writes any ‘kine in Honolulu. She was a regular book reviewer for the Honolulu Star-Advertiser and Hawaiʻi Reads. Her work has been published in Bamboo Ridge, Nonwhite and Woman, Abstract Magazine, and more.

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