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8:03 PM
@Andreas I personally use Violentmonkey. Tampermonkey is also quite popular. Both are good choices for a userscript manger.
 
@VLAZ Yeah, I got those recommendations yesterday. ;) Thanks, anyway. :)
 
@AdrianMole Thank you for thinking about thank–think tank thunks.
 
@Andreas Eh, it's not like there is a ton of choices :D There is also Greasemonkey but it's a bit temperamental and goes slightly overboard in restricting some userscripts which tends to break them. I used to be a big fan of it in the past but nowadays it's more of a hassle. The choice is basically Tampermonkey - quite good support but closed source; Violentmonkey - not as popular and open source.
 
@AnnZen No :) You cannot. Sorry. I thought you just wanted to search the backlog :) Not if there was an actual button for it.
 
We don't recommend GM4 because it braks a number of scripts
 
8:11 PM
@VLAZ Wouldn't feel safe in the presence of monkeys. Though if it's open-source, I might be able to tame it.
 
Oh my, this is neat
Hi, inexperienced user here, how does one request a vote?
 
@Makyen Cool.
 
@DeccadeoYoutube "[ tag:kind ]" Remove the whitespaces, and replace "kind" with the tag, like "cv-pls".
 
Ah, what's the tag for an open vote?
 
8:20 PM
Open vote?
Reopen, you mean?
 
Yes, sorry
 
@DeccadeoYoutube Take a look at the FAQ, in particular this section
 
Just to be sure to follow the rule, not all requests are allowed
ninja'ed
 
@DeccadeoYoutube
 
@DeccadeoYoutube Note that you may not request this for your own question, or a question you are otherwise involved with: socvr.org/faq#GEfM-no-requests-youre-involved
If you are wondering about your own post, though, you may ask for advice on how it could be improved
 
8:23 PM
>so like, my post got closed asking me to add more info
>i added the info, and it's still closed
>and I'm starting to think this was the wrong place to come to try and get that looked at
Yeah, I'm definitely in the wrong place, sorry
 
@DeccadeoYoutube No problem. I would point out that, looking at your post, it should have been automatically entered into the reopen queue from your edit for people to take a look at.
Since it's only been 15 minutes, it likely hasn't been looked at yet.
Hopefully that helps
 
Oh it's in a queue? I didn't see that. I must've been looking at a stale version
Thank you!
 
There is no way to see that it's in a queue, unfortunately. I can only tell because I know how the system works and what triggers it.
Once the reopen review is completed, it will show up in the timeline, which you can see by clicking the little clock icon below the up and down vote arrows.
 
I have an old question of mine, that I want to have deleted. It has 2 answers, and I put a close vote on it for "typo". Just afterwards, I thought it would be a better idea to mark it as a duplicate of another question about a similar problem, I'd probably find by searching. It has 4k views. Should I cv-pls it, or del-pls it?
 
if it is your own post you can't request action here in this room, sorry.
 
8:30 PM
@rene That's sad.
 
Since close and reopen votes are limited and precious, I'd suggest to just let it closed as typo but post a comment on the question with a link to the dupe
 
@Andreas if it has 4k views, it seems popular. I'd leave it around, if I were you and not delete it. If you can link it to a duplicate, that might be the most valuable for future visitors.
 
@AndrewT. mhm, ok.
 
@Andreas for users that are impacted by this rule, yes. For the room it is better if we stay impartial.
 
@VLAZ It just attracted a downvote, which reminded me that I thought about removing it, once. I think the reason it gets a lot of views, is the error message, that also happens to be the title. The error message isn't really relevant to the actual issue.
 
8:40 PM
Then you should edit it to make it better.
 
Already did that 3 years ago. It really is a terrible question.
 
Become a mod and then you can delete it.
 
@Dharman Yes, great advice. Thank you.
 
@Andreas Did you cast a close vote on it?
 
@Scratte Yes.
 
8:43 PM
@Andreas I see. With the size of the close vote queue, I can only wish you good luck :(
If it's a duplicate though, you may be able to ask in a room dedicated to the technology, if anyone agrees with the target, and perhaps you'll get it closed there.
 
@Scratte Hence why I'd hoped to cv-pls or del-plsit here. :/
@Scratte Good idea. Thanks
 
@Scratte perhaps "relationship"? It just sounds wrong.
 
@Scratte Rate
 
9:19 PM
@Braiam Thank you! :)
I think I answered a Question that I shouldn't have, but I'm not understanding why.. basically I do not understand why it's getting close votes. It's this SQL question Would anyone know what's wrong with it?
 
@Scratte I do not understand the question and I am almost trying to understand it
 
@Scratte It is a "I want" question. Little own effort demonstrated, imprecise, alternatively asking for an external recommendation and does not focus on a specific programming problem (my close vote reason).
 
What is purchased(%)?
 
@Dharman Oh.. It's been worse :)
@Dharman The rate between the clicks and the purshases.
 
Do you really need CTE for this?
 
9:28 PM
Probably not :) But I went with the query in the Question and it makes it easier as it already counts the occurrences in the relevant groups.
 
@Scratte Here, I did the same using only COUNT() sqlfiddle.com/#!9/bdd067/7
 
@Dharman Too late to post an answer though..
 
I can't post an answer if I don't understand what question I am answering. Just because I have an answer does not mean I understand the question.
 
I did have a long conversation in the comments that's now removed. Maybe I'm influenced by that.
 
9:40 PM
@NathanOliver Will unfulfilled proposals go to the graveyard nowadays?
 
@AnnZen Yeah. I forget the exact number of days, but after so long if the request is still opened, it gets binned when we run our bin script
 
@Yunnosch Ok. I thought the SQL given was the attempt. I think I figured that if one doesn't have an idea of how to do it, it may be impossible to try.. or something.
 
@NathanOliver Oh.
 
@NathanOliver 3 days IIRC
 
Sounds right. Couldn't remember if it was 3 or 4
 
9:43 PM
Having just done 3 cv-pls, is it reasonable to post 4 more so soon to get the remaining off-topic questions closed?
 
@AnnZen Unfulfilled cv-pls and reopen-pls requests are moved to the graveyard after 3 days. Unfulfilled del-pls and undel-pls requests are moved to the graveyard after 7 days. You are permitted to re-post a request a single time, but only after the first one has been moved to the graveyard as unfulfilled.
 
I'm surprised the backlog isn't that old, considering the amount of proposals in it.
 
@DavidBuck Please see #12 in the FAQ for a detailed answer to how many and how rapidly you are permitted to post requests.
 
Correction, not all messages in there are proposals...
 
@DavidBuck Also, there has to be recent activity (6 months)
 
9:49 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it might be reasonable to request assistance from others setting their filters to a particular tag to help with a concerted project, no?
 
@IanCampbell Can you rephrase to me like I am 5 yo
There are only 3 close votes missing.
Does anyone have a link to the meta post?
 
I just cleared 3 of them.
 
@IanCampbell I wasn't sure that such a request was particularly encouraged. Although discussing tags or questions often seems to have that effect, intentionally or not.
 
@DavidBuck The SOCVR effect?
 
Then I don't see where's the problem. Someone now go and flag the Meta burnination post to ask a mod to delete all questions and the tag is gone.
 
9:55 PM
@IanCampbell The URRS automatically does that when you click on a tag with the click combination you set in the options. The default is Alt-Right-Click, but you can set it to whatever you want.
 
Wow, that's so fancy. I had no idea.
Just for my edification, is it appropriate to gently request assistance with burniation projects as sort of was done in this case or should that be discouraged?
 
Eh, the only thing we can do is delete those questions.
 
@RyanM Don't happy; be worry! Think, thank, thunk ... thonk; whatever. Today, my local bar reopened, so I'm in a strange state.
 
@IanCampbell If there is an ongoing approved official burnination then yes. If it's a burnination on the side, then no.
 
@Dharman There will be no meta post, <50 Q is up to the user
or users in this case. (really chat markdown, really!?)
 
9:58 PM
@IanCampbell Please see #26 in the FAQ, which says "Tag burnination requests and tag cleanup requests must be backed by an MSO post that follows the tag burning process."
 
@Makyen When the tag is <50, what happens?
 
@IanCampbell Ah, in that case, please /dev/null this. Sorry, won't happen again.
 
@Braiam You can follow the abbreviated procedure in the tag burnination process, but if you want to make requests in SOCVR in support of the burnination, then there needs to be a MSO post that shows a "reasonable" level of approval.
 
I don't think the tag actually needs to go. Anydesk does have an API, so it is possible that there could be on-topic software development questions for it, as there are for Teamviewer. The problem was that there were a bunch of off-topic questions open under that tag.
 
@DavidBuck None of the questions were about the API ;)
If a tag is needed, when we have a question about the API, it could be created then.
 
10:03 PM
Also a reasonable perspective. I'll get on it, then.
 
Right now, the tag is useful so we can target deletion of a bunch of off topic questions... but that usefulness isn't why we should have tags :D
 
I find a lot of questionable tags as wiki excerpt edit review tasks. Do people have thoughts on what sort of moderation I should consider above just the content of the excerpt?
For example, oh, this person just created a tag for their one question about this very specialized API, or anything like that.
 
@IanCampbell If a new tag is created, then you would need to be an SME to assess whether or not that's a worthwhile tag. Otherwise, you'll need to trust the Community and just click "Skip."
 
10:19 PM
Is it intended that new tags are moderated at the time their initial except is applied?
 
... The concepts of Community and Consensus are difficult, I know (from bitter experience) but those concepts have made SO the wonderful place that it is today.
@IanCampbell I think, personally, that new tags should be in the same league as tag edits: require 20K for not requiring approval.
 
@IanCampbell no, when they are first added to a question. Watching the newly created tags is a moderation task and removing harmful tags upfront makes SO better. When the tag wiki gets created it is often too late
 
I guess my main question is, when I am reviewing tag edits, I thought the primary goals were 1) Describes the tag in the sense that it is being used on the site, 2) Provides usage guidance, and 3) does not contain copied content
I just want to make sure that I'm not skipping some important other consideration I'm supposed to be doing
 
But there's another, unwritten criterion: Is it a useful/helpful/meaningful tag?
 
@IanCampbell that is correct. You could add 4) Tag is indeed needed (assuming you can make that call)
 
10:25 PM
ninja'd
 
Also you have access to tools, right bottom corner: new tags.
 
I just feel like if you apply #4 to every edit, there would never been any approval. As it is it takes 2 weeks.
 
Rome wasn't built in a day.
 
I guess this is why 50% of all edits are approved by one user.
 
Only apply #4 if you are an SME, if not, the other rules will do.
 
10:33 PM
I used to think I do an OK job reviewing excerpt edits, checking the question to insure the usage matches the description, googling for plagiarism, and ensuring usage guidance, but now Adrian has me questioning.
 
@IanCampbell FWIW, I "Skip" 90% (or more) tag/excerpt edits. Leave them to SMEs.
... they are far more important than any individual question/answer.
I will sometimes do the basic checks that you mentioned but, if they come back "OK," then I may still skip.
 
I appreciate your thoughts. I'm not sure if you do this, but I always check the result after every one to see what the other reviewers thought, and you're the only other SOCVR regular I've seen more than once.
 
@Enijar The typo appears to have been removed from the question, I don't think this needs closing unless it's a dupe
 
@RyanM what cv are you referring to?
 
Well, you won't have seen many wiki/excerpt reviews from me. (Other than the occasional "Reject" for one of your basic checks.)
 
10:51 PM
0
Q: You can have [anydesk] you like, but not here

David BuckI came across the anydesk tag on a question that was (incorrectly) in the Help and Improvement queue and it appears to be a candidate for burnination and deleting all of the tagged questions. This tag has 10 questions, the first of which dates from July last year. It has no description in the tag...

 
11:02 PM
 
11:17 PM
What number of net downvotes does it take to make an answer fade in meta?
 
11:30 PM
 
I don't understand the SQl tag at all. Here's one that doesn't provide with sample data. I'm not sure why there are no close votes on it. When comparing to the other one, I don't get it.
 
SQL is like wild west. It has no laws
 
You should try the Android tag if you want to see some exemplars of what not to post on SO.
 
Really strange questions get answered there. stackoverflow.com/q/62922192/1839439
 
11:38 PM
No, but the other Question (the way I understood it) had all the missing parts of this one. I see that there's it was harder to understand, but I did feel it had an attempt as well.
@Dharman Oh. That is indeed very strange.
 
@Scratte This question actually has all the information in the first paragraph. The images are not needed at all IMHO
 
What does rm mean?
 
Linux remove command
 
@Dharman Not according to the meta post. It has to have data and expected results.
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
11:40 PM
Unless we start a new rule where it's ok to not provide that.
 
Well, you should definitely not come to the R tag then, because we routinely make up sample data for askers.
 
What I'm getting at is: Should I just Skip all SQL questions? I don't want my flag declined for trying to follow the rules.
 
The rules is fine, but in SQL people are able to infer details from descriptions just like in other tags. The rule about MCVE has its purpose but it is not required always.
 
@Enijar the one I replied to - you can click the reply arrow next to my message to see it
 
If you can answer without needing to have all the information then you probably never needed MCVE, just the problem statement is enough.
 
11:43 PM
@Dharman That's what I did with the other one that is closed.
 
@Scratte If you can't understand at all what OP wants then flag. If you can take an educated guess don't. However, I don't mind closing some low quality SQL questions.
 
I think I need a feature-request on meta to blacklist tags instead of whitelist them for review.
 
@Scratte Yeah, but that one didn't have clear problem statement. Sure, you took a chance, but fundamentally the question was missing details. You didn't interpolate small details like table schema, you tried to guess what OP wanted. There's a huge difference.
 
@Dharman I didn't guess. I had a conversation in the comments.
 
You can try to suggest an edit if you know exactly what OP wants. If it was explained in the comments then it should be put into the body of the question
 
11:48 PM
But ok. When I saw it, I just immediate knew what they wanted and made them update their Question so that their sample data matched with the expected result. I didn't see that others wouldn't be able to understand what they were asking.
But no, I have no feelings about it. I'm fine with it being Roomba'ed in 10 days. What I don't get is the general idea.
 
@Scratte There's always some amount of opinion. A good answer can save a bad question. We usually do not downvote answers for answering bad questions. The worst that can happen is you provide a wrong answer, which gets downvoted. If you think you know the answer, then post it.
 
We usually do not downvote answers for answering bad questions anything but spam period. (This is a joke about Dharman's meta post).
 
I meant reviewing them, not answering them
 
I downvote answers if the answerer has a good amount of reputation, and the question is outright terrible, or blatantly off-topic.
 
Reviewing is almost like answering.
@Andreas Why?
 
11:52 PM
@Dharman Not when flags are declined and review-suspensions are common.
 
@Dharman Because the obvious, obvious, very obvious, like seriously obvious thing to do, especially if you've been here a while, is to flag/close the question.
 
@Scratte If you are worried about your flags then avoid SQL
 
I mostly don't downvote answers, but sometimes, I just think it's necessary.
 
@Dharman I didn't realize until right now how impressive your downvote record is.
 
@Andreas Ok, I can understand if it is a typo or an exactly same answer posted once more, or if the answer is just so generic it can't be useful. But you should not auto-downvote answers just because they were posted to a bad question.
 
11:55 PM
@Dharman I don't downvote answers pointing out typos.
 
I do. I don't find them useful most of the time
 
I downvote answers to obviously complete garbage questions, such as homework dumps, etc.
 
@Andreas There's nothing wrong with answering homework questions
 
@Dharman Are we really talking auto downvoting?
 
I mean, at the end of the day, votes are anonymous, so as long as you're not targeting, do what feels right.
Ann, I saw you got some rep back today. The voting script came through for you!
 
11:58 PM
@Dharman bold "dump" meant the kind of homework questions we spam with downvotes and close votes in here.
- and no, I'm not auto downvoting. It's only when I feel that an answerer is committing actual harm to the site by answering something they should've immediately taken down.
 
@Andreas Quite contrary. We don't spam anything here with downvotes. We only close them if one of the standard reasons apply to them
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