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Did Irem know about Spirits?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

    At least according to the Forsaken Chronicler's Guide, the Forsaken of this time were much more potent, worshipped as divine and ruling openly as kings in Sumer. I don't see Irem easily conquering them, but more likely at constant war or else uneasy detente.
    Like Arcanist said, that's actually a ways off. The Uratha, during the time of Irem(Which is huge) will make the transition from disparate packs into the tribes and eventually powerful city states, but nothing on the scale of the Empire.

    That aside, my main comment had to do with werewolves born in the Empire itself, rather than foreigners. While we'll be looking at the Vinca in the pre-Sundering world, it would be a mistake to assume that the wolves centered there-indeed, they were already a global family.

    EDIT: Like, for clarity, a small timeline:

    The Sundered World takes place around 5500 BCE. Wolf doesn't nessecarily die here, but he dies close to it.
    The Shan'iatu murdered Azar and Iset around 5293 BCE. Sometime shortly after, they set out to create the Nameless Empire, which would last until around 3832 BCE.
    The Uratha who will be the Dog-Kings of Sumer established Bau at some unspecified time, but their fall was somewhere in King Gudea's reign, somewhere from 2144 to 2124 BCE.

    Also, I'm not sure why you would expect post-Sundering werewolves to be stronger. Maybe pre-Sundering? Sure? But the curses of the Sundering surely hit like a god damned hammer.
    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 02-22-2016, 10:14 PM.


    Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
    Working on:The Hedge
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Kino's Journey

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    • #17
      Irem was the first city and first empire, introduced new technologies, and rendered concepts commonplace that hadn't existed a century before. That's going to add up to an awful lot of new spirits, but probably ones that aren't particularly powerful. I'd figure the Shan'iatu probably knew about them but didn't consider them very important - the kinds of spirit that would find Irem congenial weren't likely to pose a problem to the Shan'iatu's activities, and could be dealth with if they did - though I suspect the Shan'iatu would have had a harder time of it had they tried to extend such efforts to more rural parts where older types of spirit were established. (By implication, it probably meant a lot of werewolves investigating the place too).

      As far as fae things go, the biggest factor in learning about such things is the return of escaped changelings, since most of the rest comes in their wake. Any mortal environment has to get up pretty early in the morning to be worse than a durance, or the risk of finding somewhere else to emerge from the Hedge, but if anywhere could pull it off...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
        The Sundered World takes place around 5500 BCE. Wolf doesn't nessecarily die here, but he dies close to it.
        The Shan'iatu murdered Azar and Iset around 5293 BCE. Sometime shortly after, they set out to create the Nameless Empire, which would last until around 3832 BCE.
        The Uratha who will be the Dog-Kings of Sumer established Bau at some unspecified time, but their fall was somewhere in King Gudea's reign, somewhere from 2144 to 2124 BCE.
        Very interesting. Is there a place where I could find more information about the CoD timeline we can infer from the various books?

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        • #19
          I believe someone attempted to make a timeline, I'm not sure about it's accuracy.

          While it's unclear exactly when it occurred, the Oath of the Moon and formation of the tribes was a big turning point for the post-Sundering werewolves, the majority of which were likely falling to degeneration and becoming lost in the Hisil forever without a creed to bind them.
          Last edited by nofather; 02-23-2016, 09:57 AM.

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          • #20
            Atta'd be a cool story-one of the Firstborn is hiding somewhere in the Hisil of Irem, and a werewolf must sneak their way into the hostile territory to win the oath of the Firstborn.


            Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
            Working on:The Hedge
            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Kino's Journey

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            • #21
              Originally posted by nofather View Post
              I believe someone attempted to make a timeline, I'm not sure about it's accuracy.

              While it's unclear exactly when it occurred, the Oath of the Moon and formation of the tribes was a big turning point for the post-Sundering werewolves, the majority of which were likely falling to degeneration and becoming lost in the Hisil forever without a creed to bind them.
              The timeline is actually fairly complete for the dates and times we're discussing here. I've had to make some guesses, but I've talked them over with people on the forums, so I think they are generally well informed. Unfortunately, technological limitations (and a supreme lack of helpful IT support) have made it difficult to share, but I can certainly take screenshots of the relevant sections. Here's the Nile Floodplain and Mesopotamia at the relevant times:




              Irem's pretty far removed from the wolves of Sumer. Honestly, one of the things I'm looking forward to the most is seeing the state of the Spirit World prior to the death of Azar. I don't think it will inform us much about Irem, but we'll see.


              CofD booklists:
              Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mummy | Promethean

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