  1. Fiender_

    Fiender_ Active Member

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    Suggestion Genre Subforums for the Novel Workshop (Or rule requiring genre in the title)

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by Fiender_, Sep 19, 2017.

    I want to critique more work on this site, but I'm very finicky with the genres that interest me. I believe having subforums for the novel work shop section, just like the short story workshop section, would be very helpful. I understand that making a dozen+ new subforums could be difficult, depending how the forum is coded. If that is the case, allowing people to edit their topic titles while making (and enforcing) a guideline to include the genre in the title, or at least the first post, could accomplish much the same thing. :)
     
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  2. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    There are sub-forums for genres. My memory is failing or I never paid attention but I thought those genre sub-forums were under 'novels' instead of under 'short stories'. It makes no sense to have them under short stories.
     
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  3. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    @GingerCoffee - I'm not seeing any sub-forums for genres in the novel section. There's a header of tags, but that relies on the poster adding these.
     
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  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

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    there aren't - currently we have subforums for short stories in the workshop and for sci fi / fantasy/ and erotica in the discussion section.

    I think this idea has been discussed before and rejected, but I can't recall why off hand (possibly because there hasn't been enough interest to justify it)
     
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  5. jannert

    jannert Member Supporter Contributor

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    It's a pity, because it's a good idea, in my opinion. However, maybe this way we are encouraged to read outside our favourite genres. Just as well, as my favourite genre, historical fiction, is extremely under-represented in the Workshop. :)
     
  6. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

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    also there's the issue of people with multi genre books, if you've got a book written in a comedic tone of voice in which there are also romantic and thriller aspects but which takes place in ancient Rome where do you put it ?

    plus I think that sort of structural change requires @Daniel who hasn't been sighted recently

    Incidentally people can edit their titles - plus mods and volunteers can too, but if people don't it could be a big pain in the ardse for staff/vols to re edit everything to determine genre
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  7. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I'd like this to be a thing too. The only genre I don't want to critique is really popular on WF and half the time I go to the workshop I come away frustrated because the first several threads I check are fantasy.
     
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  8. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Seems like a no-brainer to me. Folk would be far more likely to give critiques if they could go straight to their genre of interest.
     
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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

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    If enough people want it I'm sure @Wreybies and @Daniel will consider it, although I think there's a fairly extensive list of stuff we need @Daniel for when he next surfaces
     
  10. Komposten

    Komposten Insanitary pile of rotten fruit Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I don't know exactly what the back-end looks like (I've poked around a bit in a XenForo setup before, but it was a while ago), but I don't think there should be any real problems with creating a bunch of sub-fora for different genres in the Novels section. The main problem would probably be to sort existing threads into new sub-fora (unless we want to leave them empty to begin with, which would probably not look to good), although maybe our "Empty That Bucket"-eers could help with that (I recall hearing talks about withdrawal symptoms when the initial work came to an end). ;)

    I personally don't spend much time in the Novels section (I'm more of a short story guy), but I definitely see why this suggestion (or some other way of categorisation) would be a good idea.


    An alternative approach could be to add "prefixes" (like "Suggestion" in the title of this thread) for different genres, and have write a short "Workshop etiquette" to inform users that prefixes should be used to denote genre. This approach has been taken in the By the Genre forum. It is then possible (albeit a bit clumsy) to search for threads with a given prefix.
    Also, with the use of an add-on it could also be possible to add multiple prefixes to a single thread, thus allowing proper prefixing of cross-genre stories.
     
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  11. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I care more about the genre distinction than the novel/short-story distinction. IMO, this could be solved by removing Novel altogether and renaming the umbrella level for short stories. (That is, solved as far as I'm concerned. I don't know how much of a mess that would make for the site.)
     
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  12. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributor Contributor

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    Is there any way to make selecting a prefix mandatory for posting? I don't know how these forums work at all but if the prefix was a required field and there was just a drop down box with the usual suspects, it would eliminate the need for members to know they should be putting on it on there.

    If I know anything about the internet, it's that people are really good at ignoring obvious things. I'm not sure the prefix would do its job if it wasn't a required field for posting. And it's not like it would be that hard for a member to just select the proper genre from a drop down box. It's almost no extra work.
     
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  13. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    For critique this is how I feel as well. One is critiquing a section, not beta reading. The OP could (and should) identify how long the whole piece is and from where in story the excerpt comes.
     
  14. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

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    That's a good idea - could just call the section Story excerpts .... because in reality hardly anyone is posting a whole novel. We could also do with changing some of the sub fora level category names and possibly thinning down the number .... and maybe naming one as 'other' to catch all anything that doesn't fit in the prescribed categories

    Recategorising everything already in there would be a big mess, but one the volunteers could take on as we have thread moving and renaming powers in the bottom three quarters of the forum.

    That said I can't speak for the others but the ETB project hasn't really 'ended' for me - I'm still working with wrey on moving stuff around and generally tidying up (including flagging/moving new threads that are in the wrong place), plus looking after 'project resource'

    A possibly controversial add on idea would be to make fan fiction one of the sub fora rather than its own main board.

    I'd also like to see more genre sub categories in 'by the genre discussion ' in the top quartile, in particular a discussion board for poetry (those discussions are largely currently in GW) .... but that would definitely be @Daniel job because the nodes don't currently let volunteers operate in the top section
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
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  15. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    It would make me more likely to offer critique as well. Other than SPaG, I don't have a lot to contribute for most of what's posted in the workshop.
     
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  16. Komposten

    Komposten Insanitary pile of rotten fruit Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I guess the downside with it is that reviewers won't know if a thread contains a short story or an excerpt from a novel (unless we have prefixes for that, of course). I personally like reviewing short stories since that's what I write, and since they are more "complete" (usually no "this is the 34th chapter, you need to know this and this and this"). Still, it would be a really clean solution without adding a dozen new sub-fora.

    Based on a quick search it seems like mandatory prefixes would require an add-on. So it's doable, if we're willing to include additional add-ons.

    Currently threads can either be posted in a genre sub-forum (e.g. Short Stories -> Fantasy -> New Thread), or directly into Short Stories (Short Stories -> New Thread). The latter essentially works as a "General" or "Other" category.
     
  17. Komposten

    Komposten Insanitary pile of rotten fruit Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Based on the recent suggestion of merging Novels and Short stories into one, maybe we could complement that suggestion with mandatory prefixes for e.g. "Full Short Story", "Short Story Excerpt" and "Novel Excerpt"? That way we would have the genre-division for both shorts and novels (since they are in the same fora) while still keeping track of Short Story vs Novel (for those like me that are more interesting in one than the other).
    Even if we don't use an add-on to enforce prefix-usage, we could turn it into a rule and let the mod team fix threads without prefixes (with a tiny reprimand for the offending member) with the help of the community (using the Report function).
     
  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose All killer, no filler. Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Also Volunteers are able to change thread titles so its something we could pick up (without the reprimand natch) to save mod workload *

    * I think Wreys concept for the volunteers in the long run was to make us section monitors or wardens, or some other name which isn't moderator, to pick up a lot of the day to day tidying and free you guys up to cull spamalopes and dispatch trolls back under their bridges and generally keep order. So one or more vols could take on the 'keeping the workshop tidy' role once we'd all mucked in to the reorg of existing as I've essentially done for resources
     
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  19. Fernando.C

    Fernando.C Contributor Contributor

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    I love this idea.
     
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