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 Post subject: New Terms of Use - Draft
PostPosted: Wed June 17th, 2009, 22:08 GMT 
Site Admin
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Joined: Mon September 17th, 2007, 21:22 GMT
Posts: 137
June 22nd 2009: The new Terms of Use are now applicable to all forums.

***

Here is our draft for the new Terms of Use. Views and suggestions are welcome.

However, to avoid pages up and down full of nothingness, we ask that you ONLY post if you have anything NEW and relevant to bring to the table. Anything irrelevant will be removed without warning at the discretion of the administration/moderators.


Terms of Use
June 20th 2009

Expectingrain.com (ER) wishes to be considered a responsible website. In order to participate you will therefore have to accept our Terms of Use to be a member of the forums (found at expectingrain.com/discussions). We want this to be a resource and a good place to be for all those interested in Dylan's work. If you do not wish to comply with the Terms of Use as follows, please do not register with the ER forums.

The ER website is dedicated to Bob Dylan. If you are not interested in Bob Dylan, you will most likely not visit here. When posting, we require that you are respectful of Bob Dylan's personal life and his family. Do not engage in discussions you would not be happy to have Mr. Dylan listen in on. You never know.

The most important thing is to act courteously towards your fellow members. Remember that being part of ER is a privilege, not a right!

§1 Good manners are required
§1.1 Illegally copied materials are not permitted
§1.2 Pornographic or provocative content is not permitted
§1.3 Spam, multilevel marketing, affiliate links etc. are not permitted
§1.4 Comply with moderators/administrators
§1.5 Complaints regarding moderators, other users etc. should be directed to administrator.
§1.6 Report inappropriate posts

§2 How to use the ER forums
§2.1 Only one account permitted
§2.2 Search first, ask later.
§2.3 Always use titles descriptive of content for new threads
§2.4 Post in the correct forum
§2.5 Use coherent language and punctuation
§2.6 Posts should have purpose
§2.7 Double posting or bumping is not allowed
§2.8 Signatures (disabled)
§2.9 Avatars should not be offensive
§2.10 Use quoting carefully



§1 Good manners are required
Personal attacks, slander, public humiliation, ridicule, swearing, abusive language and other offensive expressions are not permitted. ER has a zero tolerance level for slander, abuse and generally bad behaviour.

§1.1 Illegally copied materials are not permitted
Exchange of, or requests for exchanges of illegally copied materials, including but not limited to published music and software, is not permitted. Linking to websites that host or relay illegally made copies is not permitted.

§1.2 Pornographic or provocative content is not permitted
ER should be safe for everyone. Pornographic and provocative content will be immediately deleted.

§1.3 Spam, multi-level marketing, affiliate links etc. are not permitted
Marketing of commercial products or services, including but not limited to hidden advertising and multilevel marketing, is not permitted unless an agreement is in place with the website administrator. Other unwanted information, known as spam, is also not permitted. So-called ”affiliate” links where the link poster receives money, points, or other benefits when the links are clicked are not permitted in the ER forums without it being explicitly explained that the poster will receive benefits.

ER reserves the right to remove any information perceived to not be in accordance with this rule. ER has a zero tolerance level for spam and commercial marketing that has not been cleared with an administrator.

§1.4 Comply with moderators/administrators
Moderators/administrators are present in the forums to ensure order and to correct unwanted behaviour. They are here to help you and the forum as a whole. Any correction or reprimand made by a moderator or administrator should be taken into account immediately. Moderating comments should under no circumstance be altered.

§1.5 Complaints regarding moderators, other users etc. should be directed to the administration
Moderators are people like you, but they have agreed to help more actively in keeping order in the forums. They will not be available 100% of the time, but will do their best to respond to questions and complaints.

Any complaints about how moderators execute their job should be directed to an administrator via e-mail to discussions@expectingrain.com. Complaints regarding moderators or any other users should under no circumstance be discussed in the forums – this should be resolved with an administrator.

§1.6 Report inappropriate posts
Individual posts may be reported using the red exclamation mark button included in every post. The moderators will see the report and deal with it as they see fit.


§2 How to use the ER forums

§2.1 Only one account permitted
Do not register a new account if you already have one. Multiple accounts are deleted without warning.

§2.2 Search first, ask later
Always check if there is an already existing thread regarding the topic you wish to discuss.

§2.3 Always use titles descriptive of content for new threads
Always provide a descriptive title for any new thread you start. This will ensure you attract the right audience; it will also keep the forums neat and intelligible, and makes searching easier. Examples of titles not to use are ”Wow!!!!” or ”Why?”. If you are asking a question, use a question with a question mark in the title – not the opposite, which might deceive the reader.

§2.4 Post in the correct forum
All threads should be posted in the correct forum. Every user has a responsibility to place threads correctly, to help make the forums easily navigable.

§2.5 Use coherent language and punctuation
Always strive to write in an intelligible manner. The use of caps, exclamation marks and language should all be within reason. Excessive use of caps, exclamation marks, or ”chat” in the ER forums is undesirable.

§2.6 Posts should have purpose
Do not post if you have nothing to contribute with. Posts should be aimed at improving our collective knowledge and well-being. Also, any post should be relevant to the thread it is posted to.

§2.7 Double posting is not allowed
Never post the same thread in multiple forums. Double posting (posting twice in succession to oneself) should not occur. Edit your previous post if you have something you wish to add. The only exception to this is if you are reviving an old thread where you have new information. You can then add new information as a new post.

§2.8 Signatures (disabled)
Please use your Profile to tell others about yourself. Quotes, images and such are better posted in a suitable thread.

§2.9 Avatars should not be offensive or invasive
Avatars that are animated, offensive, pornographic, racist or violent will be deleted. Avatars mimicking those of the moderators or administrators will be deleted without warning.

§2.10 Use quoting carefully
Quoting should only be used if it is absolutely necessary to repeat what someone else said in order to understand your post. Never quote when you are replying to the last post made to a thread. You should always edit your quote, so that only the portion you are referring to is used. Do not quote pictures. If someone posts to a thread while you are composing a response, you will be warned and given a chance to edit your post if necessary.


Specific Category Guidelines
Each Category has a different purpose. Here is a brief introduction:

Bob Dylan - Strictly dedicated to topics on Bob Dylan himself; General Discussion, Theme Time Radio Hour, and Bob Dylan Tour.

Downloads - Requests, links and discussions related to Rare Dylan Recordings each have their separate forums. Make sure you post in the right one - read the descriptions. And remember: No Copyrighted material allowed!

Annex - This is the place for "everything else" and has a less formal atmosphere. However, the rules above still apply! No personal attacks accepted (this goes for members, artists, presidents, your neighbor etc...). Ridicule, spite, slander or slander directed at fellow members, trolling, pouring fuel on a fire - not permitted.

Information & Assistance - Self explanatory?


Consequences of not abiding by the rules
Choosing not to abide by the ER forum rules may lead to you being permanently excluded from the forums.

Breaking the rules will entail warnings – should you choose not to take these warnings into account, you will first be banned for a short period. Warnings will always be made by administrators or moderators using PM or e-mail.

Rights
By posting in the ER forums, you acknowledge ER's right to save and display the contents of your posts. ER reserves the right to amend posts when they do not comply with the ToUs as stated.


Draft 1 wrote:
Terms of Use
June 17th 2009

Expectingrain.com (ER) wishes to be considered a serious website. In order to participate you will therefore have to accept our Terms of Use to be a member of the forums (found at expectingrain.com/discussions). We want this to be a resource and a good place to be for all Dylan fans, old and new. If you do not wish to comply with the Terms of Use as follows, please do not register with the ER forums.

The ER website is dedicated to Bob Dylan. If you are not a fan of Bob Dylan, you will most likely not visit here. When posting, we require that you are respectful of Bob Dylan's personal life and his family. Do not engage in discussions you would not be happy discussing with Mr. Dylan over a cup of coffee.

The most important thing is to act courteously towards your fellow members. Remember that being part of ER is a privilege, not a right!

§1 Good manners are required
§1.1 Illegally copied materials are not permitted
§1.2 Pornographic or provocative content is not permitted
§1.3 SPAM, multilevel marketing, affiliate links etc. are not permitted
§1.4 Comply with moderators/administrators
§1.5 Complaints regarding moderators, other users etc. should be directed to administrator.
§1.6 Report inappropriate posts

§2 How to use the ER forums
§2.1 Only one account permitted
§2.2 Search first, ask later.
§2.3 Always use titles descriptive of content for new threads
§2.4 Post in the correct forum
§2.5 Use proper language and punctuation
§2.6 Posts should have meaning
§2.7 Double posting or bumping is not allowed
§2.8 Signatures should not be invasive
§2.9 Avatars should not be offensive
§2.10 Use quoting carefully


§1 Good manners are required
Personal attacks, slander, public humiliation, swearing, abusive language and other offensive expressions are not permitted. ER has a zero tolerance level for slander, abuse and generally bad behaviour.

§1.1 Illegally copied materials are not permitted
Exchange of, or requests for exchanges of illegally copied materials, including but not limited to published music and software, is not permitted. Linking to websites that host or relay illegally made copies is not permitted.

§1.2 Pornographic or provocative content is not permitted
ER should be safe for everyone. Pornographic and provocative content will be immediately deleted.

§1.3 SPAM, multi-level marketing, affiliate links etc. are not permitted
Marketing of commercial products or services, including but not limited to hidden advertising and multilevel marketing, is not permitted unless an agreement is in place with the website administrator. Other unwanted information, known as spam, is also not permitted. So-called ”affiliate” links where the link poster receives money, points, or other benefits when the links are clicked are not permitted in the ER forums without it being explicitly explained that the poster will receive benefits.

ER reserves the right to remove any information perceived to not be in accordance with this rule. ER has a zero tolerance level for spam and commercial marketing that has not been cleared with an administrator.

§1.4 Comply with moderators/administrators
Moderators/administrators are present in the forums to ensure order and to correct unwanted behaviour. They are here to help you and the forum as a whole. Any correction or reprimand made by a moderator or administrator should be taken into account immediately. Moderating comments should under no circumstance be altered.

§1.5 Complaints regarding moderators, other users etc. should be directed to the administration
Moderators are people like you, but they have agreed to help more actively in keeping order in the forums. They will not be available 100% of the time, but will do their best to respond to questions and complaints.

Any complaints about how moderators execute their job should be directed to an administrator via e-mail to discussions@expectingrain.com. Complaints regarding moderators or any other users should under no circumstance be discussed in the forums – this should be resolved with an administrator.

§1.6 Report inappropriate posts
Individual posts may be reported using the red exclamation mark button included in every post. The moderators will see the report and deal with it as they see fit.


§2 How to use the ER forums

§2.1 Only one account permitted
Do not register a new account if you already have one. Multiple accounts may be deleted without warning.

§2.2 Search first, ask later
Always check if there is an already existing thread regarding the topic you wish to discuss.

§2.3 Always use titles descriptive of content for new threads
Always provide a descriptive title for any new thread you start. This will ensure you attract the right audience; it will also keep the forums neat and intelligible, and makes searching easier. Examples of titles not to use are ”Wow!!!!” or ”Why?”. If you are asking a question, use a question with a question mark in the title – not the opposite, which might deceive the reader.

§2.4 Post in the correct forum
All threads should be posted in the correct forum. Every user has a responsibility to place threads correctly, to help make the forums easily navigable.

§2.5 Use proper language and punctuation
Writing properly is important. The use of caps, exclamation marks and language should all be within reason. Excessive use of caps, exclamation marks, or ”chat” in the ER forums is language unsought.

§2.6 Posts should have meaning
Do not post if you have nothing to contribute with. Posts should be aimed at improving our collective knowledge and well-being. Also, any post should be relevant to the thread it is posted to.

§2.7 Double posting or bumping is not allowed
Never post the same thread in multiple forums. Double posting (posting twice in succession to oneself) should not occur. Edit your previous post if you have something you wish to add. The only exception to this is if you are reviving an old thread where you have new information. You can then add new information as a new post. A thread is ”old” when it has been inactive for one week.

§2.8 Signatures should not be invasive
You may add a signature to each post you make. However, your signature should not be unnecessarily space-demanding, nor should it include images that may be offensive or invasive. Remember; the signature is repeated every single time you post.

§2.9 Avatars should not be offensive or invasive
Avatars that are offensive, animated, pornographic, racist or violent will be deleted. Avatars mimicking those of the moderators or administrators will be deleted without warning.

§2.10 Use quoting carefully
Quoting should only be used if it is absolutely necessary to repeat what someone else said in order to understand your post. Never quote when you are replying to the last post made to a thread. You should always edit your quote, so that only the portion you are referring to is used. Avoid quoting pictures; there is no need to enforce more scrolling that necessary.


Specific Category Guidelines
Each Category has a different purpose. Here is a brief introduction:

Bob Dylan - Strictly dedicated to topics on Bob Dylan himself; General Discussion, Theme Time Radio Hour, and Bob Dylan Tour.

Downloads - Requests, links and discussions related to Rare Dylan Recordings each have their separate forums. Make sure you post in the right one - read the descriptions. And remember: No Copyrighted material allowed!

Annex - This is the place for "everything else" and has a less formal atmosphere. However, the rules above still apply! No personal attacks accepted (this means both members, artists, presidents, your neighbour etc...). Sarcasm, spite, slander, trolling, pouring fuel on a fire - not permitted.

Information & Assistance - Self explanatory?


Consequences of not abiding by the rules
Choosing not to abide by the ER forum rules may lead to you being permanently excluded from the forums.

Breaking the rules will entail warnings – should you choose not to take these warnings into account, you will first be banned for a short period. Warnings will always be made by administrators or moderators using PM or e-mail.

Copyright
By posting to the ER forums you acknowledge the copyright of all materials in this website – besides external companies logos and trademarks – belongs to ER. Upon posting in the forums you transfer the perdurable and exclusive right for ER to, without compensation, use and edit your forum posts.


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PostPosted: Wed June 17th, 2009, 22:44 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
Posts: 3311
Location: Manchester UK
No sarcasm?

Really?


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PostPosted: Wed June 17th, 2009, 22:58 GMT 
Promethium Member
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Joined: Fri June 27th, 2008, 20:28 GMT
Posts: 17309
Location: Maybe it isn't a tour, maybe he's just lost.
No illegally copied materials? This is thin ice since, of the 10,000+ things in the "Rare Recordings" section, none of them meet any meaningful definition of "legally copied." Audience recordings are all done covertly because if you're caught you're tossed out and your stuff is confiscated. "Rare" session recordings are virtually all obtained in ways the actual legal copyright holder would never approve of. Just because something is tolerated doesn't mean it's "legal."

Also, instead of putting in Rapidshare and similar download links when I post info on an album or bootleg, I instead post a link to a music oriented blog where a download link is often contained. Is this now verbotten?

I understand the concerns of the forum regarding this stuff; no downloads of the new album for example, but for the sake of clarity I believe yopu should rephrase what you're supposedly forbidding.

"No sarcasm"? Shirley, you jest.


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PostPosted: Wed June 17th, 2009, 23:03 GMT 
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Joined: Mon September 17th, 2007, 21:22 GMT
Posts: 137
"No commercially available recordings" or similar maybe.


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PostPosted: Wed June 17th, 2009, 23:09 GMT 
Titanium Member
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Joined: Sat December 16th, 2006, 00:10 GMT
Posts: 5728
re: item 1.2

would this ban include any and all references to a sch**ng?


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PostPosted: Wed June 17th, 2009, 23:46 GMT 

Joined: Wed January 18th, 2006, 00:55 GMT
Posts: 243
Location: Cornwall, England
Best of luck, Mad Cow you have a real job on your hands. I fully support what you are trying to do and heartily agree with the new draft. I am sure that you will get some disagreements along the way but I urge everyone to use just a modicum of common sense.


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PostPosted: Wed June 17th, 2009, 23:48 GMT 
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Joined: Sun June 29th, 2008, 12:52 GMT
Posts: 3893
Location: Tapper Crack, Alaska
Champaign Carl wrote:
re: item 1.2

would this ban include any and all references to a sch**ng?


Schlong and coffee: that ain't my cup of meat. But is it Mr. Dylan's, that is the question.


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PostPosted: Wed June 17th, 2009, 23:54 GMT 
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Joined: Sun October 1st, 2006, 00:05 GMT
Posts: 6768
Well I guess I will last about a day :P


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PostPosted: Wed June 17th, 2009, 23:56 GMT 

Joined: Thu August 30th, 2007, 22:44 GMT
Posts: 3978
Not allowing swearing is complete bullshit. Language does not harm people. Dylan himself has used profanity in both his lyrics and in his everyday language. What is considered profane or offensive is highly subjective. Censorship is wrong and this cannot be stressed vehemently enough. Freedom of expression should not be restricted except in cases where there is an immediate and direct threat to someone's saftey. This is the Internet; reader beware.

The idea of enforcing grammar and punctuation is ludicrous. Especially on a forum dedicated to an artist whose writing has often deliberately eschewed both.

I'm not entirely sure what the criteria for determining whether or not a post "has meaning" could be, since meaning is subjective. Any but the least restrictive interpretation of this poses unacceptable infraction on freedom of expression.

Placing a short limit on the time window for editing posts and not allowing double posts are incompatible. You have to be able to do one or the other, or there is no way of correcting an error that you don't notice right away.

Saying people should never quote the preceeding post is also pretty ridiculous and could have a negative impact on the clarity and organization of responses. Sometimes one wishes to respond only to a particular portion of such a post, or wishes to break up their response by points.


Last edited by The Mighty Monkey Of Mim on Thu June 18th, 2009, 00:03 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 00:02 GMT 
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Joined: Sun June 29th, 2008, 12:52 GMT
Posts: 3893
Location: Tapper Crack, Alaska
The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
Not allowing swearing is complete bullshit. Language does not harm people. Dylan himself has used profanity in both his lyrics and in his everyday language.


Mr. Dylan wrote:
lenny bruce says there’re no dirty
words . . . just dirty minds an’ I say there’re
no depressed words just depressed minds


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 00:19 GMT 
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Location: dead galaxy mirrored in an ice mirage
2.6
no moderator will ever be superhuman enough to keep up the work to imply this rule.
off topic ramblings, silly irrelevance and sarcasm are to be found in each and every thread.
you'd have to reconstruct the whole thing from it's very foundations.
posters would not acclimate, warnings and bans would fly in all directions everyday.
except for newbies.

where does it say "no sarcasm"?
don't you think that's just a little bit suppressive?


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 00:28 GMT 
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Joined: Tue March 27th, 2007, 20:24 GMT
Posts: 7834
Quote:
swearing, abusive language and other offensive expressions are not permitted


So, if one were to quote the following lines from the man himself would the posts be deleted, the user get reprimanded/banned?

From Hurricane:

And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigger.

Had no idea what kinda shit was about to go down

We want to put his ass in stir


From George Jackson: He wouldn't take shit from no one

From I Shall Be Free: He's eatin' bullshit!

From High Water: Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew

From John Birch..: Although he killed six million Jews

Honestly, this would be a travesty. I understand this is your site, but I think you're being a bit naive if you think you can enforce a zero tolerance policy on this point. (And a few others.)


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 00:54 GMT 
Promethium Member
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Joined: Fri June 27th, 2008, 20:28 GMT
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Location: Maybe it isn't a tour, maybe he's just lost.
Adding lots and lots of rules where there weren't any is always a good idea. :D

Now.... is that sarcasm?

But seriously, how about establishing a simple NO TROLLS ZONE and coming up with a reasonable definition of what a troll is and then making it a matter of some degree of consensus among mods in determining troll status and then.... bam, gone. No fuss, no muss.


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 01:28 GMT 
Mercury Member
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Joined: Thu July 10th, 2008, 15:11 GMT
Posts: 11726
Location: brighton uk
i find this all very upsetting - probably the best forum in the world and suddenly blam - gone for no discernible reason that makes any sense to me.... the fact that not everything here relates to dylan is what makes it great - we all have at least that one man in common.... obviously almost everyone here is a fan of some sort or they wouldn't have joined - its a community. busting up a community, even for 'a few weeks', is not a good idea. Please rethink and restore.... as soon as possible!


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 02:31 GMT 
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Joined: Sun November 28th, 2004, 02:57 GMT
Posts: 875
Location: I think I'll call it America
Mad Cow et al,
I think it's important to consider that proper grammar and punctuation may not always be feasible for participants for whom English is not a first (or well-known) language. I do agree with some of the above comments regarding the tone of posts: enforcing an outright ban on sarcasm will be a Herculean task of questionable purpose. Limitations on slander and personal attacks are appropriate so long as subjectivity of the definition of the terms is acknowledged. Overreaching limitations on virulent criticism of politcal figures, i.e. presidents, runs the risk of inappropriately suppressing the inevitable vagaries of free discussion and politcal discourse. I agree with a number of rules you have set out. However, with a few of the more invasive provisions, I'm concerned that in working toward the goal of ER becoming a "serious website," ER is instead veering close to becoming a website that takes itself too seriously. I more than appreciate the responsibility of administrating a large website and keeping things respectable, but I would ask that in doing so you embrace a degree of flexibility. Thanks for your efforts.
mumbles


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 02:35 GMT 
Senior Moderator
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Joined: Fri March 2nd, 2007, 15:48 GMT
Posts: 3447
Location: beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free
Thanks mods for the new terms and I will print & review them. I like, slimtimslide, feel that er is the best forum on the internet and for 3 years has been a "place" I visit everyday because I like the community and feel a part of it.

It is hard for me to imagine, however, what aggravation the moderators and Karl Erik have had to put up with to come to this point. If a break from the hassle here is what is required for them, so be it. Perhaps the "time out" will make this place a more manageable one as well as make any situations more reasonable to deal with for those who have taken on the responsibility voluntarily to moderate.

Expecting Rain is a precious part of my life because of being able to share my love of Bob and his music with other like-minded and very knowledgeable folks. The relationship I feel with those here is so important to me and I will miss our communication.

I do offer my sincere regrets to the mods and Karl Erik for the hard work and time devoted to creating such a special place only to have their efforts rewarded with misuse and abuse.


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 02:41 GMT 
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Joined: Sun October 21st, 2007, 03:14 GMT
Posts: 1907
Location: US Midwest
well, I hope this sorts itself out soon.


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 02:42 GMT 
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Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 17145
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
Long Johnny wrote:

But seriously, how about establishing a simple NO TROLLS ZONE and coming up with a reasonable definition of what a troll is and then making it a matter of some degree of consensus among mods in determining troll status and then.... bam, gone. No fuss, no muss.


Most people would say they know a troll when they see one...and if there had been no fuss we'd all be going about our ER business instead reading a bunch a new rules intended to clarify what is verboten.

I presume all these rules will be enforced at the discretion of the moderators, and I think that's sensible enough. It's hard to imagine someone being banned because they left a dangling schlong :shock: er, participle...easy to see how posts which don't even bother to punctuate or speak in coherent sentences could be considered an eyesore. Someone's got to make that decision, not every conceivable event can be spelled out in the rules beforehand.

For example, is it excessive use of capital letters and exclamation points to say: PLEASE REACTIVATE THE FORUMS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!! ?

Not everyone is going to agree on what is offensive or out of hand, on what is spirited disagreement and what is disrespectful. A poster's history is bound to play into that judgement, and people need to recognize that fact...as well as recoginizing who the owners of the site have put in charge of maintaining order.

I think it's without question the best Dylan site on the web, the main page, discussions, tour info, rare recordings archive, Long John's ultra weirdo/obscuro steal your grandma's acid psychedelic recommendations/links, carnap's attempts to justify GOP outrages...all of it.

SO PLEASE PUT IT BACK SOON! I'm too old to do the only other thing the internet's good for more than 2 or 3 times a day :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 02:44 GMT 
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Joined: Sun October 21st, 2007, 03:14 GMT
Posts: 1907
Location: US Midwest
Mad Cow, love the avatar!!! Very appropo!


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 02:56 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 30th, 2008, 21:23 GMT
Posts: 660
detachment is a beautiful thing, learn it well...great move taking away the candy, let it sit idle for a month, think about what you have here, maybe now you'll stop bitching, whining, and complaining like the children that you are...right about now many are feeling like junkies going through withdrawal, sitting in some cyber back alley whining, bogged down in meaningless prattle to avoid that empty knot in their stomachs...I went out on Lower Broadway and I felt that place within, that hollow place where martyrs weep and angels play with sin....let 'em twist in the wind it builds character, substance, and the soul...this type of punishment always brings rewards, enjoy...

Insurrection is an art, and like all arts has its own rules

Leon Trotsky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_1kziD6Lec


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 03:22 GMT 
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Joined: Fri June 27th, 2008, 20:28 GMT
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Location: Maybe it isn't a tour, maybe he's just lost.
Not to take attention away from Trotsky or anything but, in light of the "illegal material" rule, the last post by the Dylan Covers Project fella linked to his website where there were downloads of some band's CDs that had Dylan covers. Exactly how do you intend to police this? Do you just ban the Dylan Covers Project guy outright? Does he have to submit some sort of legal document verifying that he has the copyright holder's permission? How do you verify that whoever is representing themselves as the copyright holder really IS? If I cut and paste an editorial from the NY Times in a reply to a post in the politics section without having first asked and received their permission to do so... is that a violation of the new Book of Rules?

Please understand, I'm not being all nitpicky here. I'm just suggesting the potential pitfalls and foibles involved if you want to jazz up the site with a boo of regulations.

It's pretty much fine the way it is, you may just want to leave it alone and let the mods have some discretion in how they want to handle the troll problem.


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 03:29 GMT 
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Isn't the rule against posting copyrighted material the same?

I assume there will be discretion there also, as there was in the past. I agree following every link (and what about links from linked sites? and links on those sites???) and trying to track the legalities of all available music would be impossible. Wording the rule in such a way that mods/administrators have the ability to warn or ban people is another matter.


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 03:47 GMT 

Joined: Wed April 11th, 2007, 04:15 GMT
Posts: 1519
Location: City of Angels
How very sad. It's gonna be a sucky couple of weeks. What kind of maintenance needs to be done?
And what exactly is a troll?


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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 04:38 GMT 
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Joined: Tue May 8th, 2007, 23:48 GMT
Posts: 339
Location: USA
Long Johnny wrote:
Not to take attention away from Trotsky or anything but, in light of the "illegal material" rule, the last post by the Dylan Covers Project fella linked to his website where there were downloads of some band's CDs that had Dylan covers.


This is not correct.
I offer no downloads nor host any audio at DylanCover.com. Any links I post are to bands' websites when they offer downloads of their albums / music. When bands post music publically I assume they have complied with any legal requirements.

I assume you're talking about my recent post about the Galician band 7 Lvvas... the links provided there were to 7lvvas.net, not to my site.


Last edited by Dave_DylanCover.com on Thu June 18th, 2009, 04:42 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu June 18th, 2009, 04:41 GMT 

Joined: Sat May 23rd, 2009, 23:52 GMT
Posts: 4268
Copyright law is murky and doesn't translate cohesively across borders. The truth is that in many countries, the U.S. included, anything you write, photograph, paint, etc. that is uniquely your own is automatically copyrighted by virtue of it's creation alone. If you take a photo yourself & post it here, it's already copyrighted. The act of creating a thing and exposing it to the public at large copyrights it. It is immediately your property, no copyright symbol necessary (helpful as a reminder, but not necessary).

If someone copies your photo & uses it somewhere else, and if it's truly that important to you, your copyright isn't worth much from a legal standpoint until or unless you register the photo or essay, etc.

It's when the work is registered that you may then file for damages in a court of law. That said, there are Fair Use laws in place for the purposes of writing a critique of a copyrighted work, and basically it means that you're allowed to quote from, but not reproduce in full, the work in question without written authorization. Still, everyone does it, & as long as no monetary gain is attempted, it's just not an issue for most.

It may be enough to simply leave the wording as stands, along with a disclaimer that no one owning, administering or moderating ER may be held liable for any unlawful acts committed by members. The powers that be know that www actually stands for the wild, wild west, and in most cases are not going to hold ER liable for what it's members do.


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