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Thread: Benfit of Dmoz Listing?

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    TopDogger's Avatar
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    It is not. Ten or more years ago it was important because search engines used it as a seed database to find new sites. Search engines no longer need it because their search methods for finding new sites have greatly improved.

    DMOZ has a history of being plagued with corruption and is no longer important. Besides that, it is very difficult to get a listing today.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


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    Just a directory and like all directories, now irrelevant.
    I get a kick out of so called SEO gurus saying "You must be in directories" or "I can get your site into xxx directories" and more.

    One really should study SEO.

    But then, I have seen this same question asked and asked and asked many, many times on forums.
    It is like, I will ask this same question just to have a post.

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    I'm gonna disagree about directories being entirely irrelevant. Granted, since I'm involved in that industry you are certainly welcome to dismiss it as wishful thinking, but I'm also in a very good position to have seen evidence to the contrary of that theory. I'll readily agree that MOST are not worth the paper it'd take to print out their entry screen, but there are still good ones out there and I have seen them have positive impact on sites "findability".

    And yes, even with all its bad press and very real problems scaling the volunteer model to deal with the current size, Dmoz does still have some impact, and more than a lot of links you might get. I wouldnt start to argue that it doesnt have issues, and anyone that holds their breath waiting for an individual submission to be accepted is probably gonna turn cold, blue and stiff before it happens... BUT... a listing there is still A_Good_Thing. Has nothing like the impact it had years back, but definitely a great link to have IF you get it.

    That said, no one link, even a juicy link, is the end-all of SEO, and plenty of worthwhile sites will live their full life without a listing in that particular directory. The answer on dmoz is like the lottery... it doesnt hurt to enter, but dont make it your investment strategy. Just submit the site there with a decent descrip to the appropriate category and then forget it and move on to linkbuilding efforts over which you have more control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    It is not. Ten or more years ago it was important because search engines used it as a seed database to find new sites. Search engines no longer need it because their search methods for finding new sites have greatly improved.

    DMOZ has a history of being plagued with corruption and is no longer important. Besides that, it is very difficult to get a listing today.
    Basically the fact described is not true for all the search engine;but this is certainly true for Google. Their algorithm is greatly changed now than that of 10 years ago. yahoo and bing as well as ask or others still have positive effect for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliseBlanchett View Post
    Basically the fact described is not true for all the search engine;but this is certainly true for Google. Their algorithm is greatly changed now than that of 10 years ago. yahoo and bing as well as ask or others still have positive effect for that.
    I have to disagree with part of what you are saying. None of the search engines that you mentioned use DMOZ as anything other than another directory. It no longer has has any special significance. There may be several small and insignificant search engines that still use it, but all of the major search engines have much better ways to find web sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by robjones View Post
    I'm gonna disagree about directories being entirely irrelevant. Granted, since I'm involved in that industry you are certainly welcome to dismiss it as wishful thinking, but I'm also in a very good position to have seen evidence to the contrary of that theory. I'll readily agree that MOST are not worth the paper it'd take to print out their entry screen, but there are still good ones out there and I have seen them have positive impact on sites "findability".
    I don't take the position that all directories are irrelevant. Google clearly recognizes several trusted local and business directories. You can see that by studying Google Places accounts. The listings that show up are the directories that they favor. They do place a special importance on listings in Yelp, City Search, Kudzu, Yellow Pages, Dex Knows, YellowBot, Super Pages and others.

    The problem with DMOZ is that it has been so screwed up for such a long time that it is almost impossible to get a listing. It no longer pays to even waste your time with it.
    Last edited by TopDogger; 6 August, 2011 at 16:39 PM.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


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    One way that can help in getting into dmoz:
    Scroll to your state and city.
    Submit to your city.
    This usually is faster to get into dmoz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by top dog
    The problem with DMOZ is that it has been so screwed up for such a long time that it is almost impossible to get a listing. It no longer pays to even waste your time with it.
    The waste of time is to agonize over it, gripe about it in forums, go to Resource Zone and ask for status, re-re-submitting it, etc. It's all as useful as yelling at your grass to make it grow faster.

    The actual time spent submitting a site to them and then walking away from the deed is a couple of minutes. If it gets added, the time was well spent and you got a good link for the cost of nothing more than a few minutes effort. If it doesn't, you only spent a few minutes on it, so big deal.

    The waste of time only happens if one elects to try to do more than submit and forget.
    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    One way that can help in getting into dmozcroll to your state and city.Submit to your city.This usually is faster to get into dmoz.
    The regional queues are not as choked with spam as the more commercial sections, so it's less likely to be buried. Some areas of regional are more heavily worked than others though. It's still a crap shoot.

    The problem isn't internal corruption, which does exist... but not to the degree most believe. The real problem is the Peter principle, which yielded counter productive internal practices enforced by some that dont know better... coupled with the fact that aol is the owner. Aol took possession when it had promise. They got it when thy bought netscape, probably didnt even know it came with the deal.

    Basically its like buying a house that turns out to have a nice vegetable garden. If you fertilize it, water it, weed it, and protect it from birds and rodents... It yields a crop. If you ignore it, improperly manage it, or assume it can manage itself... it grows weedy and rotten and doesnt reach its potential.

    Dmoz outgrew the freebie model nearly a decade ago. It was viewed as a "must have" link AND it cost nothing to submit. So spammers submitted crap in huge quantity. It was buried in spam. Sure there are good, even great submissions in those queues... Buried amongst tons of crap.

    Dmoz at the beginning...

    In the beginning of dmoz the categories were built from scratch by editors that searched around to find good sites. You believe you're making a significant contribution, and people think the resource is valuable.

    Dmoz next phase...
    Soon there were submissions. You still add sites you see on your own, but in addition you did the equivalent of taking a metal detector and looking for spare change dropped in the sand in the backyard. Kinda fun.

    Dmoz as it became...

    Imagine youre a volunteer. Youre told to please go out to the septic tank, remove the lid, step in, and see if there are some silver dollars amongst the waste so you can dig them out for display in the trophy cabinet. And oh yeah... while you're wading in shit, people are gonna look over the fence and call you "corrupt" for doing it.

    How deep does the crap have to get before you decide this is not a great hobby?

    It can't be fixed unless drastic changes are made and leaders with vision replace drones that think "because we've always done it that way" is a reasonable answer. The way it was originally done is no longer a working model. Things changed, dmoz has not successfully adapted... and there's an obvious reason there are less active editors working it now. Using yesterday's tactics to fight today's battle is a great way to lose a war.

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    The corruption came into play when multiple editors were caught selling listings and removing competitor listings for a fee.

    When you are dealing with a volunteer force, it is hard to determine who is honest and who is not when you never get to see them face-to-face and you don't have enough info to dig into their past. There were a few bad apples in the bunch, but it ruined the trust and broke the spirit for others.

    DMOZ was one of the first great directories, but it's day has come and gone. If you can get a listing--great. At one time I always submited client's sites, but I have not seen any of those sites get listed for 5 or 6 years. It is like when you call a dog and the dog comes and then you slap it on the head, and then keep repeating this. Most dogs soon realize that there is no benefit for them to come to you and will no longer respond.

    I do understand that DMOZ allows up to two listings: one in an industry section and one in a location section. The location section may indeed be the easier way to deal with it.

    Are the editors still responding through Resource-Zone.com? I don't see a lot of activity there. At one point several years ago the editors stopped responding to requests for updates because they were overwhelmed. I still don't see editors responding to update requests. Here is a typical reply that I found from one administrator:

    You might have misunderstood our objectives and how we operate here. ODP is a volunteer organisation building a directory as a hobby. Editors edit where they wish, when they wish and as much as they wish within the constraints of their permissions. We have no schedules or systems to force people to do work that they don't volunteer to do. ODP is not primarily a free listing service for website owners and it does not attempt to process their listing suggestions within the time scales desired by them.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


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    Like I said... The model just didn't scale well to it's current size. With or without guys that entered for the wrong purposes, you can't effectively maintain 1 million+ categories with a few hundred volunteers. Physically impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robjones View Post
    Like I said... The model just didn't scale well to it's current size. With or without guys that entered for the wrong purposes, you can't effectively maintain 1 million+ categories with a few hundred volunteers. Physically impossible.
    I agree. I also find it curious that the administrator referred to their mission as a hobby.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


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