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XCOM: Second Contact [ME/XCOM] - Thread Four

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Agayek, Apr 23, 2013.

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  1. Nightblade

    Nightblade I will protect those who cannot protect themselves Banned

    What Awesome halo crossover. And can i get a link.
     
  2. condonzack

    condonzack I'm so sorry

    Yea I know they are an excellent idea and perfectly encapsulate how the Ethereal war has shaped humanities collective psyche.

    And its the Last Spartan http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5939286/1/The-Last-Spartan Warning a lot of people say it makes humanity too weak I don't care its fun.
     
    LordsFire likes this.
  3. I think the council in this fic is being written as competent, if overly conservative and conflict averse, but stuck dealing with a new player who specializes in rapid adaption and brinkmanship. They are smart, but have no real model for dealing with someone like X com. The fact that they tend to look to the (oh so slow to adapt) asri for guidance on diplomatic matters is probably hampering there ability to adapt as well.

    The issue is, that there are so many stories that write the council as idiots (including the cannon one) that allot of readers tend to assume the council has been handed an idiot ball when they see them stumble. Maybe Agayek could work in a mention that of other terminus powers that have tried to copy the Xcom method of dealing with the council only to end up serving as an example of what the council can do to minor powers who don't have an out of context tech base.
     
  4. Mandemon

    Mandemon However, I am trustworthy

    Oh! I KNOW THAT! And it has been updated! WOHOO!

    But yeah, people cry how humanity too weak because humans aren't ruling the galaxy.

    Could work. At least it would make Council look less "everyone walks over them, because Council can't do anything".
     
  5. Spectrum

    Spectrum Zero-nee-sama~

    Except the Council hasn't done anything to the Terminus systems and won't. They're deathly afraid of moving in that direction and having Terminus systems unite against them. That's one reason they're willing to put up with Humanity in canon in the first place, to act as a buffer in those areas.
     
    ChapterAquila92 likes this.
  6. condonzack

    condonzack I'm so sorry

    Can somebody tell me more about that? I hear you guys cite the Terminous system all the time
     
  7. Spectrum

    Spectrum Zero-nee-sama~

    tl;dr
    Various factions inside the Terminus Systems raid the Attican Traverse (which is Citadel space, if the very frontier) on a regular basis. Citadel doesn't do shit to them because usually everyone in the Terminus Systems is fighting each other and there is a legitimate fear that if the Citadel does anything, they'll all remember they hate the Citadel more than each other and unify.
    The Attican Traverse is partially claimed by various Terminus systems on top of the Citadel claim. However, they're letting the Alliance settle worlds in that area and hoping they'll be able to pacify the region as a more independent actor.
     
  8. I'd also like to mention that, however much they'd like the universe to think otherwise, the Council is not entirely united.

    The Turians, Asari and Salarians all have different motives and when push comes to shove, will look after themselves first. And that's not even counting the species that make up the associate's. That's the main reason they're so passive and so fond of the status quo. When they move, they have to cajole their own people into moving, persuade the other species to get moving, set up diplomatic links so they can get the people who aren't moving out of the way and even then, they still have to watch out for the goddamn batarians and the Terminus Systems.

    Udina represents a sovereign power and one that, for better or for worse, still has strong sentiments of caution with regards to aliens prevailing among the populace. He can make bold moves because he only has to answer to the Commander and Coalition government. None of the Council members can claim that kind of autonomy. If they push, they have to be damn sure that everyone is backing them up. Because if even one member sits back, then the whole thing falters a fair bit.

    And the fact of the matter is, XCOM hasn't done anything wrong. They've been extreme in their reprisals, but you can be damn sure the Turians would have reprised pretty hard too. While they play loose with Citadel law, the Batarians did that in canon for the best part of a millenia.

    Frankly, the Council's playing the game perfectly. XCOM charges around doing minor things that are barely a drop in the bucket overall and the Council squeezes a few concessions out of them. Everyone's not entirely unhappy, no-one has to shoot each other.

    That's what politics are for.
     
  9. Spectrum

    Spectrum Zero-nee-sama~

    If the Turians aren't interested, you don't have a fleet or ground forces. If the Salarians aren't interested, you don't have intelligence. If the Asari aren't interested, you don't have...I'll get back to you on that.
     
    ChapterAquila92 and bdun140 like this.
  10. Agayek

    Agayek Ravenous Gormandizer Super Awesome Happy Fun Time

    The short version is that the Terminus Systems are, in essence, everything not directly under Citadel control.

    The long version is that the Terminus Systems are everything not directly under Citadel control, that is not sufficiently large to count as a galactic power. In essence, at the very beginning of ME1, there are 3-4 galactic powers (depending on how you define it). The Citadel Council, the Batarian Hegemony, the Geth, and maybe the Migrant Fleet. Everything else falls under the purview of "Terminus Systems".

    The best analogy I can think of is immediately-pre-Persian-invasion Greece. A large collection of city-states with their own alliances, friends, enemies and wars going on between them at any given time.

    The Council is cautious around them, because if they are given cause to unite, they can form a power bloc on par, at minimum, with the Council. That would take a rather severe threat however, so it's generally not a major concern.

    Not really. The Council won't move their fleet into Terminus space. There's a difference.

    A Citadel fleet moving into Terminus Space is a direct threat to the sovereignty of any individual Terminus power, and it's going to make them all very, very nervous. Enough so as to unite and fight back.

    The Council laughing a Terminus power off the Citadel because they made outrageous demands and thought it would actually work would not.

    Edit:
    Also, the asari bring a staggeringly huge economy to the table in wartime, more than anything else. Plus one of the best overall special forces groups in the galaxy.
     
    ChapterAquila92 likes this.
  11. Noelemahc

    Noelemahc These things, they happen.

    If the Asari aren't interested, you don't have a government. Or finance, for that matter. The volus might be good at what they do, but not everybody likes them, whereas the Asari are at least accepted by all races.
     
  12. condonzack

    condonzack I'm so sorry

    So Terminus is a bunch of parties that agree to collectively fight any threat to their sovereignty? Sounds like random_npc is right- a Terminus power trying to pull an X-Com would be batted down hard because they wouldn't get the support from the other powers (thats what you get for being stupid) and because even though Citadel forces would take some loses they want a political victory. If the Council's weakness is their reliance on a bunch of parties with different interests then a nice stupid obvious bad guy is what they want.
     
  13. Agayek

    Agayek Ravenous Gormandizer Super Awesome Happy Fun Time

    I don't think there's any formal agreements to it (though there may well be among several of the nations, we don't know enough to say), but in essence yes.

    Again, think Greek city-states pre-Persian Wars. They normally spend most of their time fighting/contesting against each other, but if they perceive a threat to themselves, they will seek allies against the threat. If their neighbors see it as a threat to them, then they will join up with the first state in the interest of survival. Rinse repeat until they form an enormous powerbloc that's remarkably fragile but holds together remarkably well as long as that external threat continues to exist.
     
    Nyrath, Faraway-R, wkz and 4 others like this.
  14. Mandemon

    Mandemon However, I am trustworthy

    In short:

    Terminus A, B, C D, E and F all hate each others, but if Citadel moves in and takes over A, then B, C, D and E will be worried that Citadel will attack then and ally. F will try to benefit from this and get horribly raped by Space!Mongols.
     
    Night_stalker, Faraway-R, wkz and 2 others like this.
  15. Peptuck

    Peptuck ....insufficient dakka.

    Also keep in mind that the Terminus is filled with badasses and they've got a lot of economic clout. IIRC one Terminus fleet regularly fought off Reapers, and Aria T'Loak is sitting on a massive eezo stash that offers you more War Assets than entire navies.

    This Citadel doesn't want to fuck with them if they can avoid it.
     
    Faraway-R, Giygas, Ed130 and 6 others like this.
  16. Mandemon

    Mandemon However, I am trustworthy

    Please not this again... It's bad enough we got borderline Human!Wank, we don't need Terminus!Wank too.
     
    Night_stalker likes this.
  17. ckk185

    ckk185 Solidarity

    This is what you can see in War assets and codex.
     
  18. Peptuck

    Peptuck ....insufficient dakka.

    From the War Assets:

    It's not wank if its explicitly stated in canon.
     
    Amadan, Nyrath, Faraway-R and 5 others like this.
  19. Mandemon

    Mandemon However, I am trustworthy

    There is a reason why ME3 is not very well taken. Let's face it:

    Between ME2 and ME3, something happened and turned writing team into vehemently anti-Citadel. Everything in Citadel? BAH! Everybody else does better!

    Terminus is a space Somalia. Yes, it can have badasses. Yet, you are somehow insisting that is corporate, pirate and slaver run area which fights itself more often than not and is(was) generally depicted as scum of villany is somehow able to muster greater military force than Citadel? Why don't you right away say that Terminus could win conventionally and call it a day.

    ME3 writing is something I take with big grain of salt, especially all DLC.

    Of course, if you already subscribe to "Citadel is bad, Fuck Yeah Humanity! We should be running the universe, everything opposed to Citadel is Good!" idea then of course ME3 codex is your dream.
     
    Night_stalker likes this.
  20. HandicapdHippo

    HandicapdHippo Festive Goblin Super Awesome Happy Fun Time

    Oh god the war assets argument.......

     
  21. Faralis

    Faralis Ancient onsen master

    I would not talk too much about this fanfiction because is quite off topic. But IMHO it breaks hard SoD when UNSC humans have not only perfect relation, but they are allies with the Elites, and the Citadel asked for the end of the ENTIRE HUMAN AIs ( while I really doubt Canon Citadel would care about them BTW ) and a massive reduction of UNSC forces. And to add, for some reason the humans decided to stop using slipspace for "lulz" reasons.

    I would recognize that it is very well written.

    But one thing is HFY. Another is ... that.
     
  22. Peptuck

    Peptuck ....insufficient dakka.

    Just for a laugh, I added up the total War Assets you can get from the Terminus and the Citadel races.

    Every single Terminus asset you can gather together, added up, come out to just over 600 War Assets. (this is not including the batarians because the batarians have been gutted at this point in the storyline and adding them would not be representative of the Terminus's overall strength)

    Citadel? Just adding up the contributions of the minor species like the volus, elcor, hanar and drell and rolling them together with the Alliance? 1140. This is before I even start adding in the Citadel Defense Force, turian, salarian, and asari military forces. I'm also leaving out exceptional military commanders and individuals, plus whatever wasderived in the ME3 timeframe. Total combined Citadel military assets (not counting CDF because I'm not adding all those little numbers together)? Asari add 510 points of conventional military power, not including exceptional individuals and ME3 developments. Turians add 580 (with most of their units tapped to fight at Palaven!) Salarians add 310.

    So, total combined conventional Citadel assets (with many assets tied up fighting the Reapers elsewhere) comes out to 2540 to the Terminus' whopping 600. Good Heavens, the Terminus is powerful!

    No, the Terminus can't beat the Citadel conventionally. They can't even beat the Alliance alone. With most of their forces tapped fighting the Reapers, the Citadel can provide nearly four times the conventional military force as the Terminus. Hell, the whole of the Terminus can't even match what the Turian Hierarchy and the volus can spare while fighting off the fucking Reapers!
     
  23. What? ME3 was well recieved overall. It was just the endings that raised so much spite.

    And might I remind you that the Turians were flat out stated to be the only military that turned the Reaper's curbstomp into an actual war? Palaven was still standing up until the very end, which is more than the Batarians and Elcor can say. And take note that the Terminus system War Assets can barely even match one of the council races, let alone all three. It's just that even one is more than enough for war to be a really fucking bad idea.

    I don't know where you get this idea that the Council are absolute enforcers of galactic peace from. They aren't. They have the ability to enforce their law only in the areas that accept it willingly and they very, very rarely try and force otherwise. That's why the Batarians are still slaving, despite having left the Citadel. That's why the Terminus systems are left untouched. That's why they don't play hardball with the Coalition. Because they don't want to deal with the blowback if any one of these groups turns back and says: 'Well what are you going to do about it?'

    Because short of war, which the Council desperately doesn't want to deal with, there's very little they can do other than restrict access to their space to someone who isn't dependent on their economy.

    I don't know what this thing you've got going is. Is Council Fuck Yeah! a thing? Because you're well on your way to making it one.
     
    templar627, Amadan, Faraway-R and 6 others like this.
  24. Mandemon

    Mandemon However, I am trustworthy

    What I'd like to see, is for a once see a Council that is not treated as some ineffective group of buffoons that should bow down to the much smarter <insert faction writer likes>.

    Can you point me to even one ME fic that does not treat Council ultimate as something to be ignored? That treats them with respect.
     
  25. TheSandman

    TheSandman From NERV's Heart I Stab At Thee

    Forget it, Peptuck. It's Mandemon-town.
     
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