all 53 comments

[–]the_dove 19 points20 points  (0 children)

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Jake Sisko said to Ben: You're a public figure, Dad. You're the captain of the most important space station in the entire Federation. You're news.

At least during the dominion war Sisko made some headlines.

[–]rextraverseEnsign 40 points41 points  (23 children)

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Very simply, no.

Of the five Captains, Archer probably has the most widespread legacy, and it would likely be for his post-Starfleet diplomatic work as an Ambassador and then President of the Federation. His mission on the NX was historic for humanity, but probably more along the lines of Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin. His Starfleet career wasn't what brought him the most widespread notoriety.

Kirk would be very well known as one of the better known Starfleet Captains, but I imagine it's more in the legacy of General Douglas MacArthur. His battles with Khan and the Klingons probably being the most noteworthy - something schoolchildren studied in grade school, some famous photographs, his name sounds familiar but otherwise not that well known.

Picard gained the bulk of his public notoriety through his assimilation by the Borg. And given the overwhelmingly negative association with that, it may have been in Starfleet's interests - considering Picard continued to be an active Captain in the fleet afterwards - best to leave those events as a footnote. People may be somewhat aware of the name due to those events but also aware of some kind of negative in the legacy. To follow the US Military analogy, an equivalent would be General David Petraeus.

I do agree that Sisko would be the least famous of the three. He did have a major role in the Dominion War, but we sometimes forget he was most likely not the public military face of the Dominion War. That was Admiral Ross. Sisko was one of the commanders on the ground - an important one, no doubt - but the public would probably not know much about him otherwise. Sisko's influence would analogous to that of Lt. General Chuck Horner, one of General Norman Schwartzkopf's most senior adjutants during the Gulf War. (ie- important, but pretty much nobody's heard of him)

Janeway's reputation is an enigma. Her reputation as a Captain of a lost ship probably wouldn't have gotten much recognition - since ships go lost all the time. Being found again probably isn't that big a deal, since it happened during and immediately following the Dominon War, when Federation citizens had more pressing and important things to be interested in than a lost Starfleet ship 40,000 LY away. But the Doctor's holonovels and that lawsuit may have been noteworthy news. I'd probably put Janeway close to Sisko, where the difference in newsworthiness and public knowledge differs only in that military afficionados are interested in Sisko, but Janeway is more of a human interest story.

[–]feor1300Lieutenant 14 points15 points  (2 children)

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I'd say Kirk was probably made a superstar celebrity during The Voyage Home. The fact that he very publicly saved Earth from the Whale Probe probably got him all the fame he could ever want, and that fame is likely why the Federation council let him off with the "punishment" he recieved, rather than throwing the book at him. More of a PR stunt than then feeling compassionate.

Janewaymay not have been famous when she first got back to Earth, but Voyager's story (With suitable artistic license) is the stuff great made-for-Holodeck movies thrive on. Her fame is probably comparable (though less negative) to Captain Bligh of the HMS Bounty, not many people many know the details of her story, but almost everyone has heard of her and can describe, in broad strokes, why she's famous.

[–]rextraverseEnsign 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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Kirk was probably made a superstar celebrity during The Voyage Home

I thought about this during my original response, but decided it wasn't relevant because the question was about people Federation wide, and the events of TVH - while important at the time, Earth being the Capitol world - pretty much ended mostly with the status quo remaining intact and only affected people of Earth. If Kirk was a superstar because of the whale probe, it would probably be limited to Terrans or other people from Earth, in the same way Sisko was a superstar but really only to Bajorans and followers of the Bajoran faith.

And I agree with you on Janeway. A few tweaks to Photons Be Free could bring mass appeal to the Voyager story.

[–]feor1300Lieutenant 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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I think that the fact it's the capitol of the Federation would be what scored him that stardom though. Sure it went back to the status quo after he'd saved it, but everything goes back to the status quo after it's been saved. You would still have had high ranking representatives of every planetary government in the Federation on Earth having had their lives saved by Kirk & his crew, and he was the face of that rescue, he was who people saw.

[–]kraetosCaptain 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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Of the five Captains, Archer probably has the most widespread legacy, and it would likely be for his post-Starfleet diplomatic work as an Ambassador and then President of the Federation.

I'm actually pretty sure that most Federation citizens would consider Archer to be the Father of the Federation. His name is probably as recognizable to Federation citizens as Washington's is to Americans.

He laid the diplomatic groundwork for the Federation, he fought in the wars which earned Earth the political capital it needed to create the Federation, and he served as one of the earliest Federation presidents.

As for the rest:

  • Kirk: National hero in the 2280s and 2290s, but not on a scale that would endure more than a few decades
  • Picard: His name was probably spoken a lot in the 2360s, but he was more infamous than famous.
  • Sisko: About as famous as a WWII-era mid-ranking general would be, which is to say, not very. (Any real fame he attained would have had to happen after the war, but I don't think Sisko goes into politics.)
  • Janeway: Similar to Kirk—national hero for a decade or two in the 2370s and 2380s, but would fade from public consciousness pretty quickly after that.

[–]nermidLieutenant j.g. 7 points8 points  (2 children)

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I disagree.

Archer is basically the George Washington and the Thomas Jefferson of the Federation rolled into one. They make this clear repeatedly throughout Enterprise. He's the Father of the Federation. He's President of the Federation. He was a signatory of the Coalition of Planets charter. He carried Surak's katra and discovered the Kir'Shara, redefining all of Vulcan society.

Kirk was one of the most famous captains during his time. He saved the Earth directly in TMP and Voyage Home, discovered the boundary at the edge of the galaxy (and, while making first contact with and stopping an invasion by the people of the Andromeda Galaxy, became the first captain to pass through the barrier), was aboard (though notably not in control of) the first ship to pass the other barrier at the center of the galaxy, wrote himself into the Eugenics Wars history by destroying the last of the great Supermen, defeated Garth of Izar (who was noted as one of the only captains more famous than Kirk), made first contact with the Gorn, discovered an entire universe, personally saved the life of the President of the Federation during the Khitomer Accords, discovered the shared ancestry of Vulcan and Romulus...and we know in-universe that he and his crew are the stuff of legends through Generations and DS9.

Saying that either of them isn't famous is simply ridiculous.

[–]rextraverseEnsign 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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Regarding Archer, I didn't say he wouldn't be famous. I agree with yours and /u/kraetos that he's probably very well known as one of the Founding Fathers of the Federation (or an equivalent honorific). But my point is - outside Starfleet circles - his fame isn't because of his Starfleet career, it's because of his post-Starfleet diplomatic and political one.

As for Kirk, we'll just have to disagree. imo, the problem with what we learn in-universe is that the people we interact with are largely people involved with Starfleet, not common Federation citizens. If Starfleet is a career choice, then of course you're going to know about the achievements of Kirk and Picard and all the rest. This is what you've committed your life to. This is what you're interested in. It's relevant to your world and your livelihood. But it's very esoteric. I just don't see any of Kirk's achievements gaining him anywhere even near the level of long term fame outside Starfleet interest circles. People who don't care about Starfleet probably don't care about passing through the galactic barrier or first contact with the Gorn either. You cite him saving the life of Federation President "Kurtwood Smith"... okay, that's a pretty big deal. In 1981, John Hinckley tried to assassinate US President Ronald Reagan. But ask most Americans the name of the Secret Service agent who took a bullet protecting the President, I'm guessing few people would be able to name the agent off hand.

Our perspective is skewed because - watching Star Trek - we get a very Starfleet-centric view of the Federation. We have to recognize how biased that is and how it's not an accurate view of the Federation as a whole. Civilians we meet like Joseph Sisko and Robert Picard, who have immediate family members in the service, don't appear to care much about anything Starfleet does.

[–]nermidLieutenant j.g. 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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It's relevant to your world

He was personally responsible for saving the people of the Earth from extinction in two very public instances: the first and fourth movies. That's about as relevant to their world as something gets. And his trial after the fourth movie makes it obvious that the people of the Earth are well aware of his responsibility for saving them. So, even if all of his other accomplishments are lost to history, he'll still be widely regarded as the man who saved the Heart of the Federation twice.

[–]MikeTheSpikeLieutenant j.g. 5 points6 points  (11 children)

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Yeah, but Petraeus wasn't brainwashed by al qaeda to blow up 39 boats and the thousands of people on them.

Also, come on, Janeway is big-time famous. This ship goes missing in a completely unknown part of the galaxy and shows up 7 years later? Before they got back, even, I imagine the Pathfinder project was making headlines. "Latest news from lost ship!" I can't believe that happens too frequently.

You say nobody gave a shit when Voyager came back after the Dominion War, but Shackleton came back in 1917 and we're still talking about it.

[–]former-teacher 6 points7 points  (3 children)

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Can you imagine the debriefings that occurred upon Voyagers arrival? I doubt anyone saw any member of that crew for months!

"So, tell me again how your captain stabbed a creature because she wanted coffee?"

[–]nermidLieutenant j.g. 13 points14 points  (2 children)

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You destroyed the unicomplex?

You convinced nine-foot-tall fluidic-space monsters not to invade the Federation?

You invented a new type of warp drive?

You broke the Transwarp Barrier?

You're fucking making things up, Kathy.

[–]Calpa 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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You conceived offspring with a crew member while both existing as salamander creatures?

[–]nermidLieutenant j.g. 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Honestly, that seems like the sort of thing that

  1. You'd leave out of the mission log, and

  2. Everybody in Starfleet's probably got a story like that. Picard's got a psychic-sex-slave wife out being concubine for a king, Riker turned Wesley into a 15-year-old adult with his Q powers, O'Brien had a leprechaun, Troi turned into the Creature from the Black Lagoon...

Surely, nobody'll hold that against her.

[–]FiXato 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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I think one of the first headlines would be more like: "Borg drone serves on Starfleet starship" or "Hologram walks around freely and unrestricted"

[–]rextraverseEnsign 4 points5 points  (5 children)

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Before they got back, even, I imagine the Pathfinder project was making headlines. "Latest news from lost ship!"

What I'm arguing is the Voyager story was probably lost in the public's consciousness because of the War. Message in a Bottle occurred during DS9 Season 6, essentially the heart of the war. The public was concerned with thousands of Alliance officers dying and the possibility their worlds would be attacked by the Jem'Hadar. Voyager was revealed to be safe and live only ~300 stardates before the events of In the Pale Moonlight. I'm not saying nobody gave a shit, I'm saying they had other more important things to focus on.

As for Pathfinder, I'm sure the ability to communicate with Voyager was a big deal within Starfleet circles and civilians interested in Starfleet ops. But that first contact via Pathfinder happened so soon after the war ended, most Federation citizens were probably just trying to put their lives back together after such a deadly war. And even as normalcy returned and Pathfinder was making regular communications with Voyager, interest in Voyager probably waned. These people weren't supposed to be back for 40 years. Stories from 40,000LY away don't really mean all that much to the citizens - who by and large probably don't care very much about Starfleet to begin with.

It's like those videoconferences with astronauts. They were big news when they started, but the public gets bored and moves on. Except in Voyager's case, they weren't big news when they started because they had to compete with bigger news that was directly impacting the lives of Federation citizens. Again, it's not that the Voyager story was ignored or that no one cared, but War stories were probably still the headline where there was a snippet about Voyager being found on the front page that redirects you to Page A6 (or whatever the future equivalent of that is)

Shackleton came back in 1917 and we're still talking about it.

Perhaps it's because I grew up in the American public education system, but I've never heard of this guy until you mentioned him right now.

[–]NofrillsoculusCrewman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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The thing is, Voyager being safe and Voyager coming home might have made headlines precisely because the Dominion war was going on. Think about it - you're in the midst of this horrible conflict, you don't want to log into the news net and hear about how many Federation ships were destroyed this week. You want to read the latest dispatches from Voyager, the "lost ship" fending for itself on the edge of the galaxy. I bet reading about the crew's adventures was a great form of escapism for a lot of people, and maybe went a long way towards giving people hope and reminding them of what the Federation stands for.

[–]HistidineChief Petty Officer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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Except in Voyager's case, they weren't big news when they started because they had to compete with bigger news that was directly impacting the lives of Federation citizens. Again, it's not that the Voyager story was ignored or that no one cared, but War stories were probably still the headline where there was a snippet about Voyager being found on the front page that redirects you to Page A6 (or whatever the future equivalent of that is)

In one universe though, the return of Voyager was actually a huge deal to the Federation. At the start of Endgame (Voyager's penultimate episode), we see in an alternate timeline where the return of Voyager is met with a huge celebration and fireworks on earth and are blatantly told that this was a big deal to the Federation. But of course, this is all before Janeway goes back in time to get them home far sooner with advanced technology. So while the Federation could become enamored with Voyagers trip home, the question is DID they prior to Voyagers sudden return in the prime universe?

For the most part I agree with your assessment that Voyager/Janeway wasn't that big of a deal to the general public while they were out in the Delta quadrant, even after making contact with Starfleet again. They just didn't have a long enough span of communication with Federation to build the general interest shown in the alternate timeline. Also, what heroic return they could have had was undoubtedly mired by the Department of Temporal Investigations requiring things to be very hush-hush when they first get back. But keep in mind, Janeway has made first contact with hundreds of new races rivialing/exceeding Kirk even. It'll be hard to keep that out of the history books in the long run, not to mention we have no reason NOT to believe Tom Paris wouldn't still go on to be a famous holonovel author which would only help popularize Janeway and the Voyager crew. So yes, Voyager wasn't really on the average citizen's radar while they were in the delta quadrant, but their story and accomplishments is too incredible NOT to gain interest within the Federation once they came home.

[–]MikeTheSpikeLieutenant j.g. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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I imagine that if you're British, you'd have heard of Shackleton. Certainly in 1917 you would have.

[–]sstern88Lieutenant -1 points0 points  (1 child)

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I was like, Shackleton who?

[–]MikeTheSpikeLieutenant j.g. -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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That's your own fault.

[–]Regulus117 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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Actually, I would compare Archer to George C. Marshall. He does great work as Chief of Staff of the Army for World War II, but what makes him well known these days? The Marshall Plan. Which he created when he became a civilian and went into politics. Another similar person would be Eisenhower. He was the Supreme Commander of the Allies in Europe. Sure, people know that part of him, but I hear more about his presidency from the people around me.

[–]Foltbolt 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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I think by comparing Starfleet Officers to modern military leaders, you're not making an apt comparison. Starfleet Officers should be considered state-sanctioned explorers in the vein of Christopher Columbus or Captain James Cook, of whose voyages are legendary.

Starfleet Captains are likely revered just like great sea captains were, as great men and women of action and principle. There was a time being captain of a nimble frigate fighting dashing single-ship battles brought more fame and glory than being a Admiral of the Blue. The Captain of the Enterprise or other deep space vessels likely captured the imagination of generations.

[Archer's] Starfleet career wasn't what brought him the most widespread notoriety.

Archer is undoubtedly a Founding Father of the Federation. However, it was his exploration and diplomatic work as a Starfleet Captain made the alliance possible.

He changed the course of development on Vulcan, helping elevate humanity to equal partners in the Earth-Vulcan alliance when he was chosen by Surak to carry his katra and rediscovered the Kir'Shara. He forged a bond of trust between Andor and Earth, and helped alleviate tensions between Vulcan and Andor. He was the first to co-ordinate a joint operation between Vulcan, Andorian, Tellarite and Earth fleets when faced with an early Romulan incursion. He undoubtedly figured prominently in the Earth-Romulan War, although we don't know how.

Kirk would be very well known as one of the better known Starfleet Captains

He commanded the Enterprise's historic five-year mission of exploration. He participated in the negotiation of the Treaty of Organia. He defeated Khan. Saved Earth from V'Ger and the Whale Probe. Thwarted an assassination attempt on the Federation President and helped usher in a new era of peace with the Klingons.

I'd say being very well known is an understatement. He's closer to a James Cook than a MacArthur.

People may be somewhat aware of [Picard] due to those events but also aware of some kind of negative in the legacy.

I don't think most people honestly held it against Picard that he was assimilated by the Borg. Sisko is an exception, not the rule. A few other people tried to use it against him and that never went particularly well for them.

Besides, Picard was more likely known as a famous captain of a deep space exploration ship, one that had made countless first contacts, stopped the Borg at Earth (twice), completed the work of leading archaeologist Dr. Galen and discovered the secret of the ancient humanoids who seeded the galaxy (that's a huge one, if you ask me) and stopped a rogue Romulan ship from blowing up the Earth. I'm sure his principled humanism is also widely admired and his defense of Data's rights in a Measure of a Man was likely to be studied closely in Federation legal and philosophy circles for years to come.

His scientific discoveries alone earn him a kind of Charles Darwin or a Sir Joseph Banks level of notoriety. The fact that he was also a successful captain and diplomat may even propel him to a Kirk-like level of fame.

I do agree that Sisko would be the least famous of the three. He did have a major role in the Dominion War, but we sometimes forget he was most likely not the public military face of the Dominion War.

Yes, but he was the public face of Deep Space 9, which although initially a backwater placement, was quickly thrust into the public eye. An irreligious Starfleet Officer becoming a spiritual leader of a frontier world is newsworthy stuff. Not to mention he was in command when the station came under attack by Klingons and, later, the Dominion. He was likely the leading witness against Admiral Leyton for his failed coup.

A decent historical figure for comparison may be T. E. Lawrence, or Lawrence of Arabia.

Janeway's reputation is an enigma. Her reputation as a Captain of a lost ship probably wouldn't have gotten much recognition - since ships go lost all the time. Being found again probably isn't that big a deal, since it happened during and immediately following the Dominon War

You don't think the people were in need of a feel good story about a lost ship still being out there, tens of thousands of light years from Earth? And then when she made it home? It would be like Amelia Earhart returning home after she went missing. Actually, it might be more reminiscent of Captain Bligh's seemingly impossible 3,618 nautical mile voyage across open sea to Timor in an open-air boat, in which he only lost a single hand. Or perhaps Shakleton's heroic exploits getting his people home from a disastrous Antarctic expedition.

In the end, I really think that all of the show's captains end up pretty damn famous and admired.

[–]uniquecrash5Ensign 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Starfleet Captains are likely revered just like great sea captains were, as great men and women of action and principle. There was a time being captain of a nimble frigate fighting dashing single-ship battles brought more fame and glory than being a Admiral of the Blue. The Captain of the Enterprise or other deep space vessels likely captured the imagination of generations.

I think this is an excellent comparison. I had always assumed that Kirk's logs were widely read in the Federation, maybe even adapted to other media, perhaps even something like, oh, like a TV show...

[–]1eejitChief Petty Officer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Being found again probably isn't that big a deal, since it happened during and immediately following the Dominon War, when Federation citizens had more pressing and important things to be interested in than a lost Starfleet ship 40,000 LY away.

I think the method of Voyager's reappearance was more dramatic than that of other missing ships...

Appearing blasting out from inside a Borg Sphere in Earth orbit is going to make headlines and be pretty memorable.

[–]rw_ 15 points16 points  (0 children)

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In the beginning of Generations, the cameraman seems to be very excited about Kirk and is constantly in his face. If they're anything remotely like our current day media, that would hint at him being a celebrity.

Media nowadays if allowed to tour a ship and record it tend to focus on the crew and the technology they're allowed to show - and yes, possibly a piece on the captain, but usually the soldiers and the ship itself are the focal points.

[–]azhazalCrewman 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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yes.. yes they are.

Kirk was for obvious reasons, but the most famous was janeway. The unexplained disappearance of voyager made them instant celebrities, then out of nowhere 4 years later starfleet started reporting being in contact.. it would have been a huge media spectacle and the famed captain's return safe and sound with the crew would have been a celebratory event in all the federation..

Archer would have been like churchill in WW2. he would have been remembered as a very significant historical figure.

i think sisko would have been remembered for the historical events that surrounded him, kind of like paton.

[–]sickofallofyou 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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Riker deserves most of the credit for defeating the borg.

As for Archer, it was mentioned by the captian of the NX-02 when they were mountain climbing that they were naming high schools after him. In the personnel logs recovered from the TOS USS Defiant, it said he eventually became President of the Federation.

[–]Kant_LavarChief Petty Officer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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I think /u/rw_'s Picard/Eisenhower comparison is actually pretty good. Kirk is most definitely a celebrity in the Federation, given how many time's he's referenced in TNG and onwards, and how much of Federation history he impacted. Sisko and Janeway probably were fairly well-known at some points, the latter half of and probably for a while after the Dominion War for Sisko, and upon Voyager's return to Earth and shortly thereafter for Janeway. While they might still be somewhat better known than the average starship captain or flag officer, I suspect their celebrity wouldn't last for long, especially outside the Starfleet.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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Well, Star Trek has always been a show about Starfleet, and not necessarily the Federation. So, the notoriety of these folks among Starfleet personnel far outweighs their notoriety to average Federation citizens. We have these discussions everyday about just how military is Starfleet, and this example plainly settles it, as these captains are considered some of the most able military commanders and icons in Starfleet's history.

[–]defedude 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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Sisko was probably the most famous if you ask me.

He is basically Patton for the war against the Dominion. It doesn't get much more prominent than that.

By the way, I can't believe you gave the credit to Data, Crusher, and Shelby for saving earth and forgot about Riker! If it wasn't for Riker they never would have got Picard back and never would have been able to put the borg to sleep. He planned the entire Picard recovery mission.

[–]sho19132Crewman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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are there canon references to these guy's personal fame and celebrity I'm missing?

I recently watched the Tribble episode of DS9, and the characters are all very excited about the chance to meet Kirk; he's clearly regarded as a famous historic figure.

[–]SouthwestSideStoryCrewman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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I think Kirk would have become a celebrity after TMP even if he wasn't at his most competent and it was Decker and Ilia who saved Earth more than he did.

Wouldn't Sisko have been quite famous for discovering the wormhole and commanding the space station near it? His situation with the Bajoran people may have been newsworthy too. I don't remember Homefront and Paradise Lost so well right now but Sisko thwarted Leyton's military coup so unless the scandal got covered up a lot he could have made some headlines.

[–]jcampbell11291Chief Petty Officer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Kirk is standout of course. He is also mentioned many, many times with revere in all of the series, and is considered one of the greatest captains of all time. Sisko is the man that started the Dominion war. I have no doubt of his fame. You hit the head on the nail with Janeway and Archer. Picard however, probably is known only for the major battles he participated in. He might be known as a great diplomat otherwise, but I wouldn't think his fame matches up with the other captains.

[–]mokvendyCrewman 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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I just watched "Family" again, a significant subplot is a Picard being tempted to join a project to build a city in the Atlantic as the project director.

Picard's friend, who is mentioned as being one of about 200 supervisors on the project, has no issues lining up an immediate interview with the board of directors and mentions they would love to have him leading the project.

Especially with this being directly after the Borg incident, this suggests Picard does have significant clout outside Starfleet.

[–]1eejitChief Petty Officer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Being Captain of Starfleet's flagship alone would surely open a lot of doors when it comes to further career opportunities without necessarily equating to widespread fame.

[–]Foltbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Picard was also tapped to be the Commandant of Starfleet Academy quite early on in TNG.

[–]MikeTheSpikeLieutenant j.g. 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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I don't understand how in Gambit the mercenaries aren't all "shit, you're that Picard guy that was assimilated and killed all those people, aren't you?"

[–]kraetosCaptain 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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Presumably the mercenaries live outside Federation law/borders/culture and therefore would be unfamiliar with Federation events.

[–]nermidLieutenant j.g. 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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And after Wolf 359, being assimilated wasn't something you held against a guy.

[–]CitrusFreewayCrewman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Watching ST:Generations right now and in the first scenes with Enterprise-B, the media people are treating Kirk like some sort of celebrity. Up in his face with cameras and eagerly standing by with their recorders waiting for him to give the order to leave space dock.

[–]tjkwentusChief Petty Officer 1 point2 points  (9 children)

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I think you hit the nail right on the head yourself - While they each had a few big moments that may have gotten press coverage i.e. Picard after Wolf 359 or Janeway and Voyager, they would be no more well-known to us civvies than a major commander in the Army or any captain of any battleship in the Navy is today.

[–]rw_ 5 points6 points  (8 children)

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There's a difference though - most of us alive haven't been alive during some sort of heroic defense or last stand. As a US citizen - yes, we have the wars in the Middle East, but they're not popular, we don't know most of what's going on, and it's hard to feel like they're defending our nation when they're fighting insurgents who don't have the capability to launch a credible assault on our nation. Yes, maybe some terrorism, but they're not going to roll over the White House and replace our government. (Think of it like beating the Maquis in a battle - it's not going to effect most Earth citizens)

Look at Eisenhower - the guy became president. He still has a hell of a legacy.

For those alive at the time of say, the Borg invasion, Picard certainly would be at least at the level of Eisenhower, possibly even more popular. Combine the command/strategy/oversight with the literal charging into battle status, and you have a hero of mythological proportions. Think of it like Eisenhower + Eisenhower if he was the first to roll into Berlin (while it was still in German control) sitting in the command seat of a tank with a sabre raised.

[–]sstern88Lieutenant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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MacArthur was pretty well known too I think

[–]RoboNerdOK 0 points1 point  (3 children)

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Hmmm. Picard was already the captain of the Starfleet flagship at the start of TNG. And then there is The Picard Maneuver from his stint on the Stargazer, and various (implied) references to his contributions to Federation archaeology before he took the Captain's seat on Enterprise-D.

Of all the captains, I'd say Picard was certainly the most famous... at least when we're first introduced to him at "Encounter at Farpoint".

[–]1eejitChief Petty Officer 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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But the OP is talking about the population at large. The Picard Maneuver would only be well-known inside Starfleet and his archaeological work among experts and enthusiasts.

It's hard to say how "big" being Captain of the flagship is among the Federation population as a whole - probably some level of fame there to be sure yet maybe not a household name?

Archer's position would have made him probably more famous than Picard when we're introduced to him.

[–]Foltbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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his archaeological work among experts and enthusiasts.

Yes, but it's the 24th Century. Earth is a technocratic paradise. There's no TV. You'd think there would actually be quite a large group of enthusiasts of archaeology in that kind of future.

Not to mention that Picard went on to complete Dr. Galen's work on the ancient humanoid race that seeded the galaxy with its genetic material. For crying out loud, that's beyond the work of Darwin.

[–]RoboNerdOK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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Hmmm. Good point. In that same vein it would be interesting to compare & contrast relative fame of Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer at the start and end of the respective series.

Of all that list, Sisko's reputation would be most enigmatic to plot, in my opinion. For obvious reasons he would be huge on Bajor -- but what about elsewhere? Does the average Federation citizen care much about Bajor other than knowing it just happens to be near that wormhole where the Dominion came through?

[–]Jigsus[🍰] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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Picard was certainly infamous after the Locutus episode. I imagine after First Contact he got some public credit for saving earth.
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