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#1 2011-02-19 18:59:08

jasonwryan
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From: .nz
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Posts: 18,814
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[Policy change] Thread deletions

As Arch becomes more popular, and more and more people post to the forums, we are seeing an increase in the number of threads that are being closed or locked because they violate some aspect of the Forum Etiquette.

This means that, over time, more and more of these locked posts will surface in search returns, both in the Forums' search and on external engines. This situation undermines the utility of the Forums as a helpful tool for the community and contributes to the growing amount of useless pages on the Internet.

To address this, the Moderation team will now move those locked/closed threads that add no value to the community to Dust/troll-bin and, after a period of five days, the thread will be deleted. The Moderator responsible will clearly mark the thread as "Binned" or "For deletion."

Examples of these types of threads would include questions that are already thoroughly documented on the boards or the Wiki, asking the community to help you decide on which DE/WM to use and trolling or other behaviour inconsistent with the Arch Way.

If one of your threads is moved there, you may still appeal the decision by contacting the Moderation team.

The intent of this policy is to ensure that the boards continue to be a useful resource for the community into the future and that we maintain our focus on supporting users who embrace the Arch philosophy.


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#2 2011-02-19 19:04:13

lifeafter2am
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

I agree with this 100%.  Good call on the teams part!  smile


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#3 2011-02-19 19:33:27

karol
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

Will you remove old threads that got bumped and closed as a result?

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#4 2011-02-19 19:35:33

litemotiv
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Registered: 2008-08-01
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

karol wrote:

Will you remove old threads that got bumped and closed as a result?

Maybe Pierre could look at automating that, but we're not going to move them manually.


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#5 2011-02-20 01:04:46

karol
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

litemotiv wrote:
karol wrote:

Will you remove old threads that got bumped and closed as a result?

Maybe Pierre could look at automating that, but we're not going to move them manually.

Does that mean e.g. this thread will disappear? If you're not moving them manually, then how? Can somebody share the code?

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#6 2011-02-20 01:08:12

jasonwryan
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

Why would we delete that thread? It contains helpful information...

The point is to remove threads that add nothing to the community.


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#7 2011-02-20 01:13:22

karol
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

jasonwryan wrote:

Why would we delete that thread? It contains helpful information...

The point is to remove threads that add nothing to the community.

litemotiv wrote:

we're not going to move them manually.

karol wrote:

If you're not moving them manually, then how? Can somebody share the code?

Maybe litemotiv meant that you will move them manually - the part about Pierre automating things makes more sense this way.

Last edited by karol (2011-02-20 01:13:53)

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#8 2011-02-20 01:19:34

jasonwryan
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

litemotiv was referring to the backlog of threads closed because they were, essentially, empty.

When we close a thread now, if it qualifies for deletion, the mod will move it to the Dustbin and, after five days, delete it.

Note that some threads will still be closed but will not be deleted. For example, someone (inadvertently or otherwise) necrobumping a thread that contains useful, even if outdated, information. The intent is to proactively manage the information on the boards; to remove the cruft - not rewrite history...


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#9 2011-02-20 01:23:09

karol
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

jasonwryan wrote:

litemotiv was referring to the backlog of threads closed because they were, essentially, empty.

Now I get it :-)

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#10 2012-12-05 07:20:41

amadar
Banned
Registered: 2011-04-15
Posts: 147

Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

I agree with this. However, sometimes I feel you are too strict, jasonwryan. No hard feelings, just sayin'.

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#11 2012-12-05 07:43:29

jasonwryan
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

amadar wrote:

I agree with this. However, sometimes I feel you are too strict, jasonwryan. No hard feelings, just sayin'.

There is an appeal process:

If one of your threads is moved there, you may still appeal the decision by contacting the Moderation team.

And, this is not scientific, but I am pretty sure that >95% of the threads where a member of the community has appealed a deletion, one of the mod team has reinstated the thread.

The overall aproach, though, is to try and ensure that these boards do remain primarily a useful technical resource for Arch users, not a wasteland of idle questions that could easily have been answered had the poster bothered to search or think for themselves, crowding out the few interesting, challenging questions that receive no response because the people capable of answering have all given up.

Arch is a small, relatively specialized community. There is no attempt to make it a popular, one-size-fits-all distro. Keeping a sane signal to noise ratio here is important for the people that either currently contribute (patches, documentation, packages in AUR, bug reports etc) or are likely to contribute in the future. Anyone else wanting help here can either read the Etiquette and make a conscious decision to bring something to the community, or learn to deal with the inevitable disappointment that will follow...


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#12 2013-04-10 20:45:23

t1nk3r3r
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From: The Pacific Northwest
Registered: 2011-03-22
Posts: 79

Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

jasonwryan wrote:

Arch is a small, relatively specialized community. There is no attempt to make it a popular, one-size-fits-all distro.

From my point of view I've noticed significant growth in new linux users, and long ago I had a co-worker try to convert me before I was ready.  It may not be official, but there are users that think "This distro is great! Everyone should use it!"  As for one-size-fits-all, look at how the content in the wiki has been changing over the last five years.  Including several articles "recommending" new users rely on scripts [instead of learning how something works].

jasonwryan wrote:

Anyone else wanting help here can either read the Etiquette and make a conscious decision to bring something to the community, or learn to deal with the inevitable disappointment that will follow...

Maybe there is a way to make reading the Etiquette compulsory?  It's too easy to overlook.  XDA-developers.com has a short video I like.

I *do* support this decision for the competent Linux user.


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#13 2013-04-10 21:08:02

jasonwryan
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

The wiki is an excellent resource; however, only certain sections are "official", the rest is whatever the community makes it. Feel free to remove things that just encourage incompetence.


I don't think that it is desirable to make reading the Etiquette compulsory; people are expected to read the documentation, if they choose not to they can brace themselves for the inevitable criticism/contumely...


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#14 2013-05-01 20:31:46

lspci
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From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 2012-06-09
Posts: 242

Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

jasonwryan wrote:

Examples of these types of threads would include questions that are already thoroughly documented on the boards or the Wiki, asking the community to help you decide on which DE/WM to use and trolling or other behaviour inconsistent with the Arch Way.

So if a fledgling archer has a question like "should I use openbox or fluxbox" they should:

  1. Learn what they can about openbox and fluxbox and figure out the pros or cons on their own, as in:

    1. Search Google

    2. Read up on the items of interest on various Wikis

    3. Repeat previous step, except search forums this time

  2. if they still feel like or think that they need more information or as a last resort they should ask their question on the Arch Linux IRC

Right?

I know that this information is probably on the wiki somewhere, but I've never really seen anything on the wiki or the forum ever point somebody to ask questions like THIS on the IRC, so I thought it would be worth making the suggestion that maybe, if users do have open-ended--I think the above was open-ended? hmm--questions that they should ask them on the IRC so that they don't clutter up the forum, and that we ought to have that somewhere on the wiki.

Last edited by lspci (2013-05-01 20:32:25)


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#15 2013-05-01 20:36:10

jasonwryan
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

My default and answer, and it is one of phrik's as well, is that an Archer, fledgling or not, would install both and make up their own mind.

It is as much about encouraging self-sufficiency and the ability to think independently as it is about reducing the amount of bikeshedding here or in #archlinux.


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#16 2013-10-31 23:34:31

xtian
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

lspci wrote:

So if a fledgling archer has a question like "should I use openbox or fluxbox" they should:
Learn what they can about openbox and fluxbox and figure out the pros or cons on their own, as in [...]Gentoo's wiki

I've just wandered into this thread, and I have a question. Why list Gentoo's Wiki as a priori to posting at Arch? Gentoo is not on the Arch line as represented at Wikipedia? What is the relationship of Gentoo and Gentoo's Wiki to Arch?

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#17 2013-11-01 00:04:25

Trilby
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From: Massachusetts, USA
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

xtian wrote:

What is the relationship of Gentoo and Gentoo's Wiki to Arch?

None really.  They are just two of the best linux references on the web.  As I understand it, the gentoo wiki used to be even much better, but some mystical event in the non-so-distant past ate all their information (I heard it was a tribble infestation, they can really be trouble).  Since then, the arch wiki has filled the gap, but the gentoo wiki is also bouncing back well.


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#18 2015-08-18 07:45:34

duyinthee
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Registered: 2015-06-14
Posts: 40

Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

jasonwryan wrote:

To address this, the Moderation team will now move those locked/closed threads that add no value to the community to Dust/troll-bin and, after a period of five days, the thread will be deleted. The Moderator responsible will clearly mark the thread as "Binned" or "For deletion."

I agree this 100% this, really. But I think there is a frustrating thing in that idea.
That is missing an option for owner of thread to immediately delete it which is closed by this forum to delete

after a period of five days

Why need to wait 5 Days if the thread owner want to delete the thread immediately?

Yesterday, I posted a thread here. A forum admin closed for deletion that my thread saying "not Arch issue, go and ask on your Distro's board".
yes, I agree and wanna say sorry for my cross post.

But...
I can not solve my problem yet.
I am sitting in front of my computer and googling all day to solve it.
The Problem is this
Every time I type in keywords of my problem into any search engines and hit Enter, my closed-thread at bbs.archlinux.org shows up at the top of search result list.
I want to delete that thread immediately because it is useless or a shame or frustrating thing.

For Example:
You put my a piece of paper into a dustbin.
Now, I wanna take it back to destroy or whatever.
I think I should have the right to do so.

Last edited by duyinthee (2015-08-18 07:56:00)

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#19 2015-08-18 07:57:18

jasonwryan
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

The five days is to allow the right of appeal.

If you want it deleted immediately, hit the report button and make that clear; there is no value in having threads in the Dustbin if there is not going to be an appeal from the OP.


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#20 2015-08-18 07:59:47

WorMzy
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From: Scotland
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Posts: 5,265

Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

That's my fault, I saw the report duyinthee made this morning and misinterpreted it.

EDIT: thread deleted. That won't make it disappear from $searchengine any more than dustbinning it in the first place though.

Last edited by WorMzy (2015-08-18 08:11:11)


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#21 2015-08-18 08:40:25

duyinthee
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Registered: 2015-06-14
Posts: 40

Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

Ok, thanks guys.
Actually, I am an Archer.
But my hobby is testing distros.

Every when I have any problem with any distro, the first place I dive into is Arch wiki.
As doing so, I misunderstood to come to Arch Forum.
But I now know I shouldn't.

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#22 2015-09-26 18:55:28

Rena
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From: Cambridge, Ontario, Canadia
Registered: 2015-05-08
Posts: 7
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Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

So what is the appeal process?

I was rather miffed when this thread just got binned with a robotic "doesn't belong here" when it clearly states in the first paragraph that I can't put it in the place it does belong. We're all humans here, aren't we? We can't concede a little and let someone ask for help in the closest-to-right-place they can? Really need to enforce the rules 100% to the letter and not let someone ask for help?


All about me and my Arch boxen here.

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#23 2015-09-26 19:21:20

WorMzy
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From: Scotland
Registered: 2010-06-16
Posts: 5,265

Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

You can appeal by PMing/emailing a mod directly, or by clicking "report" on your post and entering your appeal in the textbox -- it will be brought to the attention of the mods when they next visit the forums.

In this case though, although Jason didn't directly respond to your reasons, the topic broke the rules and was rightfully closed. Just because you can't (couldn't?) use the correct forum, doesn't mean we are obligated to provide support instead. There are alternative avenues for support for ALARM, if you choose to seek them out; the IRC chat would be the first place to check if the forums are down or inaccessible for whatever reason.


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#24 2015-09-26 19:25:42

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 12,965

Re: [Policy change] Thread deletions

The report button is a good first place to try.   Or, send an email to any moderator.  We do communicate with each other and let each other know when we have received a comment on one of our actions. 
In the case of the thread you referenced, the problem is that Arch Arm is a different distribution.  And that is fine.  Many of the moderators, myself included, use and love Arch Arm.  Arch Linux, however, is a x86 or x86_64 bit distribution.  The installation method is also vastly different.   As such, I am afraid there is no  place on these forums for your post.

You really need to go here.  They are good people too.  I have asked and have had answered my questions there.

Edit:  Good afternoon (evening) WorMzy smile

Last edited by ewaller (2015-09-26 19:26:37)


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