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I am once again seeing a pattern that I think needs to be addressed.

As I am sure everyone will recall, a year and a half ago @Zachary eloquently explained why we prefer that members not indulge in what used to be called "useless nonsense."

I want to take his request one step further. If you see a post that adds nothing to the discussion, especially in a thread of real, substantive value (like park projects discussions), please do not respond. By reacting to a troll, we only increase the impact of the initial post on both our collective credibility and everyone's ability to find valuable data.

One pointless post is annoying; several responses drive the entire thread off-topic and waste everyone's time. It is bad enough for people who come here looking for real information to instead end up reading someone's puerile attempt at humor. It is even worse when those people have to wade through a page or more responses to that pathetic cry for attention.

For reference, here are excerpts of Zachary's original post:

A few tweaks have been made to the etiquette guidelines above in light of a handful of recent complaints. The real reason for this post though is to address one in particular: Useless nonsense.

...

This forum has been specifically, visually designed to put a large spotlight on the words of our users (compare this to this or this). We cast this spotlight on our user's content by separating each user's posts by a lot of screen real estate dedicated to that user. While each post is part of a larger thread, each post is also designed to stand alone as a small blog entry of sorts.

Furthermore, through the "Unread Posts" feature, we actually notify all forum users when anyone makes a post. When you post, you're not just commenting on a piece of content like you would be on Facebook or YouTube—you're writing your own small piece of the site. Each and every member will then be notified of that contribution and encouraged to check it out. This is not the standard operating procedure on most fora out there.

Because the forum is designed to place so much weight on each post, when a post doesn't contribute anything substantive to the discussion, it hurts.

All I'm asking here is that before you hit "Post Reply," ask this: If someone came to ParkFans.net, clicked on the "Unread Posts" link, entered the top thread in the listing, and found your post as the only new post since their last visit, would they feel that their time was well spent? If the answer is no, you should try to add some additional substance to your post.

...

tl;dr: Ask yourself if your post is worth people going out of their way to read. If not, add content, use the Thanks button, PM the user, etc.
 
Maybe this is something for the AP but should we add using terms like "know" and "confirmed" to this? I'm sure a bunch of folks don't look at this but it might help if even a few more people used those terms in their literal meaning.

Of course nothing as far as rules is concerned, but I think it's courteous
 
Per the Advisory Panel’s recommendation, we have added a bullet about sourcing external sites to Etiquette Guidelines. Here is the full, agreed-upon text:

When citing a source, you must not only link to the source directly, but also provide at minimum a short description of the content you are linking to.

This does not permit you to copy the entirety of the content to which you are linking, as that is plagiarism.
 
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I have received an astoundingly large number of messages from ParkFans members lately about what people perceive to be increasingly abrasive rhetoric appearing all across the forum. Unfortunately, these comments, complaints, and post reports have only served to reenforce my own observations and perceptions—that discourse has become a lot more tense around here as of late.

Typically I try to allow conflicts like this resolve themselves, but there are times when these issues can fester and grow infected—threatening the overall health of discussion on the forum at large. We seem to be nearing that zone again now.

People need to learn to read their posts in the context of the thread before posting—taking a moment to consider whether they are unintentionally (or intentionally) engaged in a rhetorical arms race. As a general rule, if your post is escalating tensions in the thread, you should think about changing it or making it a PM instead. Tense threads aren't enjoyable threads. They legitimately drive people away.

People need to ask themselves if their posts read like a statement of fact when they're actually expressing an opinion or perception. Everyone can have radically different opinions and perceptions and that's ok. Opinions rarely trigger conflict. That said, opinions or perceptions stated as the correct position or similar are a consistent flash point for anger.

People need to ask themselves if the topic at hand even warrants the contribution of their opinions or input at all. So many of the most abrasive posts out there simply don't contribute to the actual topic at hand at all. A surprising amount of strife can be avoided by just asking if the post in question is actually worth sharing to begin with.

Why am I saying something now? Like I said, I've observed a pattern for a while now and I've received a lot of feedback about it lately.

Then, earlier today, while I was preoccupied at Kings Dominion taking photos for a KDFans post (and hence, not reading the forum), there was a conversation where some of these issues were particularly glaring.

Someone swooping into a conversation to announce that everyone else should step aside since they were going to provide actual data soon is unnecessarily aggressive. Someone extrapolating one isolated, fringe experience to counter a whole string of testimony is absurd and abrasive. Someone assuming others are wrong and explaining a well-understood topic instead of considering alternative possibilities for the disagreement causes completely unnecessary conflict.

These are the types of things we need to work to avoid.

Long-term, the advisory panel may need to take a look at the forum rules and consider elaborating upon/expanding the reach of some of them.

In the meantime though, I hope you all will consider how your posts affect the overall tone of the threads you're participating in and even the forum as a whole. Increased tensions as of late have, legitimately, discouraged people from contributing. That shouldn't happen.

PS: Sorry if this is a rambling mess. Hopefully it does some good regardless.
 
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Yeah, everyone needs to shut up and listen to what Zachary thinks is the right way to operate on the forum.

Meh, no one has to listen to me. The forum is only as good as you people make it. If you all want to be at each other's throats all the time, go right ahead. I can only enforce actual rules. So unless the panel wants to add to the arsenal of rules I can use, all I can do is give little speaches from my soapbox until the whole place burns down or sorts itself out.
 
Where's that meme of the the anime guy with the butterfly I want to caption it "is this democracy" becyase I think it is. You're doing so well! I love you. Let's make out.
 
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I understand that some threads are very active, but can we please keep the double (and triple) posting down. It clutters up the forum and can end up spamming people with unread notifications. You can reply to multiple posts using the quote function and edit your post if you feel the need to add any additional thoughts. I do understand that it is sometimes unavoidable, like if a thread has died off, I just ask that you use your best judgment.

Thanks.
 
Because of the recent problems we have been seeing in the COVID threads, I wanted to remind everyone that we have Forum etiquette rules that really should be followed. I would ask everyone to read this thread in its entirety, as we are seeing a lot of posts in violation of our community standards.
 
A few tweaks have been made to the etiquette guidelines above in light of a handful of recent complaints. The real reason for this post though is to address one in particular: Useless nonsense.

Long ago there was a rule that disallowed "useless nonsense." Naturally, this was a problem as it constructed an environment where users didn't know what was or wasn't acceptable. It was a bad rule, but it wasn't without purpose.

The issue behind that old, long gone rule has become a common point of frustration for a number of people who have messaged or spoken to the admins recently.

There have been an increasing number of posts that lack real substance. Posts that serve only to thank or agree with someone are often better skipped in favor of a simple press of the Thanks button. Posts that serve only to contribute a one-liner quickly pile up to make a thread that consists of a hundred of them. This can clog up discussions and, worse, discourage people from reading at all.

This forum has been specifically, visually designed to put a large spotlight on the words of our users (compare this to this or this). We cast this spotlight on our user's content by separating each user's posts by a lot of screen real estate dedicated to that user. While each post is part of a larger thread, each post is also designed to stand alone as a small blog entry of sorts.

Furthermore, through the "Unread Posts" feature, we actually notify all forum users when anyone makes a post. When you post, you're not just commenting on a piece of content like you would be on Facebook or YouTube—you're writing your own small piece of the site. Each and every member will then be notified of that contribution and encouraged to check it out. This is not the standard operating procedure on most fora out there.

Because the forum is designed to place so much weight on each post, when a post doesn't contribute anything substantive to the discussion, it hurts.

All I'm asking here is that before you hit "Post Reply," ask this: If someone came to ParkFans.net, clicked on the "Unread Posts" link, entered the top thread in the listing, and found your post as the only new post since their last visit, would they feel that their time was well spent? If the answer is no, you should try to add some additional substance to your post.

Say that you want to make a joke about something relevant to a forum discussion. By all means, do it—I want to read it! That said, follow that up with something that contributes to the larger conversation. Sometimes that'll be contributing to a topic a few posts up from the one you were originally going to reply to. Sometimes that will be introducing a new thought or idea. Sometimes it can just be as small as posing a new question to drive conversation forward.

Note that not once have I suggested that people post less or that they refrain from jokes or the like. In fact, the wide range of personalities on the forum are one of our best assets and I don't want to suggest anything that will tone those down. Keep the jokes, puns, references, etc coming—I enjoy them too—just don't let them rule the conversation.

Anyway, anyone who made it this far, thanks for reading and thanks for caring!


tl;dr: Ask yourself if your post is worth people going out of their way to read. If not, add content, use the Thanks button, PM the user, etc.

I want to highlight this post in light of the current state of the Pantheon thread. Please read @Zachary's comments in full.

Everyone, please consider whether your comment contributes anything substantive, before posting.
 
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I understand that some threads are very active, but can we please keep the double (and triple) posting down. It clutters up the forum and can end up spamming people with unread notifications. You can reply to multiple posts using the quote function and edit your post if you feel the need to add any additional thoughts. I do understand that it is sometimes unavoidable, like if a thread has died off, I just ask that you use your best judgment.

Thanks.

I want to remind everyone that we have the Quote feature, so people don’t double and triple post. It has gotten particularly bad recently. Please combine all of your responses into a single post.
 
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