Seriously...

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Seriously...

Unread postby Koffein » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 1:27

I've been off for a few days concidering my retirement from MG since I really, really didn't like what I saw my last days of browsing the forums and catching up with what's been going on in my absence. Then another board member contact me via msn about an hour or so ago and start discussing MG, showing me a couple of old threads that made me really scared. I mean, WTF has happened to MG?
I mean, the members seem SCARED of the mods, we should be here to guide the community in the right direction, not to force them to say what we'd like them to say. Excluding you, Screaming Eagle, the mods of this boards nowadays seem all high on their position, not even allowing members to moderate each other??? What's wrong with a regular member enlighting another about a misuse of their posting prevliliges? That's just a joke!
Making MG more friendly? Well... In the current situation it rather seems that MG is trying to mold their members to think alike and if anyone dares to speak up, then that person WILL be pushed down.
This is a forum, it's here for people to share their thaughts, and if someone is posting crap, are everybody supposed to say "Hey! Good work dude, keep it up and bring us some more" when all that leads to is lack of quality posting and mods.
I mean, you released the skinning instructions to the general audience, and what has that brought us? Skinpacks of utterly low quality that are being praised like it was the second coming of Mona Lisa.
Constructive criticism people, something that is a good thing for all artists to recieve. And even you DL, who gave me alot of valueable feedback on my work in progress for things to improve seem to just say "Keep up the good work" to skins that never should have been released. I just don't get it.
Now what has this accomplished? By not having moderated skin releases, the community is overflowing with stuff we don't need or want, everybody wants to be a skinner now and it takes focus from the real modding, what is so valueable to us.
And while we're talking about skins, what pissed me off in the first place was that the CEP team (oh sorry, GEP, I can hardly tell the difference. What was that all about btw?) actually took one of my work in progress skins, modified it, and releasing it without even asking. Now that's a really good way to get me in a bad mood, WTF was you thinking? If you had asked me, I gladly would have done it myself, but you don't steal other peoples work, you just don't, especially without giving proper credit for it. CEP team? Yeah... Right...

And last but not least. Seriously Pete and ERC. You're spamming the forums with off-topic posts, as admins you should know better than doing that on a daily basis in on-topic forums. Please stop.
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Unread postby Spoonman » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 1:40

Thank you Koffe! I agree, this community has changed drastically from the last time I was here. I've noticed a lot that people would get shot down if they had an opposite opinion, and making opposite opinions a rule, thats just horrible...
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Re: Seriously...

Unread postby The Witch King » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 5:39

Koffein wrote:I mean, the members seem SCARED of the mods, we should be here to guide the community in the right direction, not to force them to say what we'd like them to say. Excluding you, Screaming Eagle, the mods of this boards nowadays seem all high on their position, not even allowing members to moderate each other??? What's wrong with a regular member enlighting another about a misuse of their posting prevliliges? That's just a joke!
What? The only reason I almost never hand out warnings is because I believe in self moderation. I even let people get away with things because of this. I'd be one of the happiest people here if everybody did it. The other reason I don't hand out warnings is because I believe they should be reserved for the most serious infractions of the rules (multiple accounts, flaming, etc). I don't believe in handing out a warning every time somebody double posts(though I will ask them not to double post again). I'm trying to be a nice mod.

If people are scared of me because I'm an evil warlord that rides a fellbeast, that's not my problem.

I must say that I agree with everything else, though.
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Unread postby Spoonman » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 7:17

The Witch King wrote:Two things:
1. Don't moderate. You aren't God
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Unread postby The Witch King » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 7:51

And the fact that there are some instances where moderators should be the ones doing the moderating hasn't occurred to you? You didn't disprove what I said in any way.
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Unread postby Spoonman » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 8:07

The Witch King wrote:And the fact that there are some instances where moderators should be the ones doing the moderating hasn't occurred to you?
You really haven't been on any forum besides this one have you? People moderate all the time when they're not moderators, have you heard what a vigilante is? If anything you should be open to the fact that you have a community that are willing to help each other out by showing them the rules, after all isn't that what a self supporting community is? Im sorry to say this TWK, but your not a very good moderator... You use the rules as a weapon, and at the end your just going to blow yourself up in recoil.

The Witch King wrote:You didn't disprove what I said in any way.

I misunderstood what you said. Oh and by the way, anyway is one word.
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Unread postby The Witch King » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 9:13

If you state that I'm a bad moderator, who uses rules as a weapon, the least you should do is provide evidence for your claims. I've only warned people four times (three of which were sent to one person). Most of the time, I just ask people not to do it again. I fail to see how that's using rules as a weapon.

Btw, Where did I say that non-moderators didn't moderate? I said that there are instances where moderators should step in(and, there are).

The only time I NEVER want a member to help moderate would be if that member was bossing another member around. I don't believe that is a good way to run things.
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Unread postby Legion » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 11:30

Ok, let's review the situation and talk about it, shall we?
I'm a fair webmaster, so, let's see...

You were contacted by another member? Ah, right, Apostolos, who, we are 99% sure to have hacked our previous forums and was a Idiot to about everyone. Then he told me and ERC he wanted nothing else to do with MG and later asked if he could talk to me, and keeps asking to talk to me solely. Looks like he didn't understand that ERC shares as much power as I do, but, whatever... Then, there is the fact he was an absolute idiot to most of the community members on the previous MG, forged quite a few images, and don't come with that "My gfx card is glitchy", because, EVERYTIME I asked for further pictures of your work you never provided it. And all I asked were screens, if you were telling the truth, you'd have gotten them without a sweat.

Scared of the mods, you say? You didn't see MG when Apostolos was an Admin, then.

The reason I'm talking about Apostolos is because it seems he now is on a vendeta to discredit my and ERC's work ever since we allowed him to rejoin MG, to tell the truth, I've got fed up.

And I force people to say what I want? I provide my points as everyone else.

What? A moderator or admin have to act politely or not give their point of view as they see fit just because they're on a high position? That's descrimination, just the other way around.
A staff member must know how to discern opinion from their place as a part of the staff. Which we all do, as far as I know. It isn't the fault of the staff member that users can't distinguish that. If we can be yelled at and insulted, then the same can go the other way, really. Status quo. We don't take moderating measures because someone disagrees with us, we take moderating measures because the user breaks the rules. In fact, we are MUCH, MUCH softer moderating than we were. We would have banned about 25 users if Apost was in ERC's position or if we followed the rules by the book, just so you know. IMO, we're pretty softer.

About the skins, yes, I despise many of them, so I prefer to avoid them or brush it off with a soft comment than to be the mean a***** I was when Apost was around. Then, skins are something of personal taste. Just because we hate them, doesn't mean others have to. In fact, you're saying we should do what you just told us to not do. Besides, ask ERC on how picky I can still be with skins... Really Koff, you're hearing Apost's side of the story, and I know by experience he can be very manipulative.

And tell me, what is the use of having COMMUNITY expansion team when the ONLY people working on mods on the community were already -and exclusively- on the team? Yet, I do appologise greatly we didn't ask for your permission to use the raptor skin, yet, we always provided you with the due credit. You can search around here and JPL, and you'll see we gave you the intellectual ownership of the original and an obvious co-creator status on the final release of it.

Yes, I know me and ERC spam the place with our off-topic posts, yet, it isn't on topics that have much more to go around.

So, I ask you for proof. Give me relevant topics and point out your accusations, please, as, right now, I don't see a plausible basis for this.

Apostolos wrote:Thank you Koffe! I agree, this community has changed drastically from the last time I was here. I've noticed a lot that people would get shot down if they had an opposite opinion, and making opposite opinions a rule, thats just horrible...

Oh, boo-hoo. Poor little big-bad-wolf got demoted and now is going around trying to find stuff to frame us as being the bad guys... Put a sock on it.
Koff, if you want to believe someone whose IP matched the one who hacked into my account other than my own ISP, posted faked screenshots and was a bigger idiot than I ever was when he was an admin at MG, by all means, do. Just ask around to people who were around at the time he was active around here and the type of posts he made.

You really haven't been on any forum besides this one have you? People moderate all the time when they're not moderators, have you heard what a vigilante is? If anything you should be open to the fact that you have a community that are willing to help each other out by showing them the rules, after all isn't that what a self supporting community is? Im sorry to say this TWK, but your not a very good moderator... You use the rules as a weapon, and at the end your just going to blow yourself up in recoil.

So, you say we should allow other users go "don't spam" or "spammer" or "don't double post", in all due honesty, they are doing the same thing the poster they are correcting did. IF they add this while making a on-topic post, I'm fine, I even thank it. But posting just for that is doing the same thing. And, if they had read the rules as they should, they'd read:

4. Helping Moderators
Whilst we appreciate that some of you like to help us with the forum, there are a few issues that need to be addressed.

Do not make a post just to tell another member not to double post. We will decide what is an inappropriate double post and advise the person if necessary. (It does not make sense to post, just to tell someone else not to double post).

Do not make a separate post just to inform another member that they are in the wrong forum, or a topic should be moved or locked. We do not need you adding "Mod/Admin you can close this". We read the forums everyday and it is our job to notice these things.

If a thread needs urgent attention please PM a Moderator and we will attend to it as soon as possible. Do not take forum problems into your own hands.

It would be appreciated if you can help us by following these guidelines. We notice that on some sites, a thread can go on for half a page whilst everyone adds there 2 cents about where it should be and if it should be locked etc.
This is unnecessarily clogging up the forums.
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Unread postby Koffein » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 12:32

Me and Pete has been talking this through via MSN and I believe we have sorted things out.

About the member moderation, I would like to apologize to you TWK since it was directed towards you and after searching the forums I realized it was just on a single occation you had used that in a bad way (Chaos skins thread), and a mistake every now and then acceptable really, we're all human after all (or android... whatever...). So sorry, I was to fast to draw a conclusion on that one.
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Unread postby Legion » Tue, 10th Apr 2007 12:34

Well, now that this is settled, I think we can close the topic :)

Off-topic posts on modding and other important topics will be strongly discouraged from now on (warnings can even be attributed for one off-topic post). And, yes, it goes for me and ERC, too.
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