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Thread: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

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  1. #1
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    After much discussion, and consideration of member input from the previous discussion threads, along with delays due to adverse moderator schedules, we anticipate that we will be in a position to implement the changes we have been discussing for the For Sale sub-forum on Sunday, 3 April 2016. During the implementation, which may take several hours, the For Sale / Wanted section will be closed (read-only). A notice will be posted here in "News" when the implementation starts.

    Here is a summary of the changes being made:

    Overview:
    1. Change FS/WTB into FS/FT (For sale/for trade),
    2. Add a separate WTB (wanted to buy) sub-forum,
    3. Add a new FS - Member-made sub-forum.

    The main index pages for all three sections will be ordered by the date of the original post, most recent first, rather than the date of the most recent post in the thread. As such, "bumping" will no longer affect the main index pages. Members who use searches that utilize built-in date functions will still see the effects of recent posts in threads, but that is a relatively small percentage of users.

    Links to external points of sale will still be prohibited in the new FS/FT section, but will be allowed, with limitations, in the WTB section.

    Comments in the form of questions about the item or the terms of sale are allowed, as are posts by the seller changing price or terms of sale. However, posts that amount to idle chit-chat or empty "bumps" (including "PM sent") are prohibited, and may be deleted at the discretion of the moderators. Potential buyers who wish to track a particular for-sale item are encouraged to subscribe to the thread, so they are notified of changes in price or terms. A higher level of discussion is anticipated in the separate WTB section, particularly if the person seeking the item isn't clear on what they want, but that will no longer adversely affect for-sale threads.

    A member may start no more than three FS/FT, WTB, or FS-member made threads per day. Each post, however, can include multiple items, subject to other applicable rules.

    If an item has not sold in 30 days, the seller may close that thread and post the FS listing again, incorporating the results of any questions or discussion in the original thread. The three-per-day limit applies. Premature closings/reposts will be considered a rules violation, with the corresponding consequences. Sellers are required to close their for-sale threads when the item is no longer available for any reason.

    Wanted to Buy - members seeking to buy an item are encouraged to do the appropriate research prior to posting, so their post can be reasonably specific about what they are seeking to buy. For example, if you aren't sure that a "600mm f/1.0 Schneidenstock" lens will suit your portrait needs, start a discussion thread in the Lens section instead of posting here.

    FS - Member-made LF Gear and Accessories - For-sale ads here are limited to new LF gear, accessories and LF darkroom gear actually made personally by the member placing them up for sale. This includes such things as LF cameras (nominally 4x5 and larger), backs, lens boards, focusing screens, developing tubes, etc. (If you outsource the actual manufacturing, don't post it here.) There is a limit of one post per type of item being made and sold by the individual member. So, for example, if you make multiple sizes of lens boards, all must be described in the same thread. Ads for services (e.g. repair, education, guided tours, etc.) are not appropriate in this section.

    All of the usual caveats will still apply. Since the new rules are considerably more detailed, the description that appears at the top of the section index will point to the rules in the FAQ, rather than incorporating them as it does presently. Posters will be expected to read the rules in detail prior to posting, and comply. Those who violate the rules repeatedly may lose access to these sections, or be banned from the forum altogether. Thus, someone who makes three new FS posts without reading and complying with the new rules, may be "toast" on the first day.

    We have considered all of the points raised in the previous discussion threads, so please don't attempt to "re-litigate" your favorite issues. We hope these changes will strike a reasonable balance between functionality and moderator intervention.

  2. #2
    Randy Moe's Avatar
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    Re: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    Nice work!

  3. #3

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    Re: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    I hope you folks didn't spend too much time thinking this up. I'm fine with the changes... but I was fine with the old way too.

    If I were king of the forum, though, I'd eliminate the limitation on number of ads and invoke a limit of one item per ad. I find it very hard to follow multiple item ads over time when some sell, others don't, and the lists are sometimes updated and sometimes not.

  4. #4
    rich815's Avatar
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    Re: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    Why not allowing "PM sent" posts? I only starting doing this when for some reason a seller was not getting PM notifications but was watching his threads. I had sent a PM accepting their terms but not posting any "PM sent" post. Two days later he sold to someone else who did give him a later message and I lost out. This way it reminds them they have a PM and to go look. Why was or is this a problem?

  5. #5

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    Re: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    ... I'd eliminate the limitation on number of ads and invoke a limit of one item per ad. I find it very hard to follow multiple item ads over time when some sell, others don't, and the lists are sometimes updated and sometimes not.

    Quote Originally Posted by rich815 View Post
    Why not allowing "PM sent" posts? I only starting doing this when for some reason a seller was not getting PM notifications but was watching his threads. I had sent a PM accepting their terms but not posting any "PM sent" post. Two days later he sold to someone else who did give him a later message and I lost out. This way it reminds them they have a PM and to go look. Why was or is this a problem?
    +1 on both of these comments. Clarity of communication in an online purchase is critical. (Although I have been guilty of multiple item posts!)

    Cheers,
    Geary
    Small Minds...What cannot be cured, must be endured.

  6. #6
    Old School Wayne
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    Re: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by rich815 View Post
    Why not allowing "PM sent" posts? I only starting doing this when for some reason a seller was not getting PM notifications but was watching his threads. I had sent a PM accepting their terms but not posting any "PM sent" post. Two days later he sold to someone else who did give him a later message and I lost out. This way it reminds them they have a PM and to go look. Why was or is this a problem?
    There have been long discussions about all of these changes. Sorry you missed them, but I'm sure they're still to be found here. (I'm impartial/indifferent on the matter)

  7. #7

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    Re: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Barker View Post
    If an item has not sold in 30 days, the seller may close that thread and post the FS listing again, incorporating the results of any questions or discussion in the original thread.
    How does one close their own thread? I looked at some of my (really) old threads and I don't see an option to do that. Is that something that is going to be turned on during the maintenance?

    -Darren

  8. #8
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    Re: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren Kruger View Post
    How does one close their own thread? I looked at some of my (really) old threads and I don't see an option to do that. Is that something that is going to be turned on during the maintenance?

    -Darren
    That (closing your own threads) is a feature that will be turned on during implementation.

  9. #9

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    Re: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    I, too, do not understand the no "PM Sent" rule. Most times when I'm looking at FS threads, I'll typically ignore the item if a PM (or more) has already been sent; kind of a "first come, first served" kind of thing to me.

  10. #10

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    Re: For-Sale-Wanted Rules changes coming on 3 Apr 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan9940 View Post
    I, too, do not understand the no "PM Sent" rule. Most times when I'm looking at FS threads, I'll typically ignore the item if a PM (or more) has already been sent; kind of a "first come, first served" kind of thing to me.
    That is actually the problem. Some people send a PM asking for details about an item, not about actually buying it. An actual potential buyer thinks it has been sold, and the item languishes until it is bumped up. By then people think it's a dog, and ignore it. People also ignore requests to send email, rather than PMs, but no rule can change that .

    Mods, while you're doing the maintenance, can you put the notice about the number of stored messages at the top of the page, rather than the bottom? This would prompt people to clear their storage more often.

    Kumar

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