Black 21

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mistervec
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Re: Black 21

Post by mistervec » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:28 pm

Stellar Generation Prime was advanced enough to impose its will on distant parts of the galaxy (Ortgay comes from somewhere and goes somewhere when he isn't "patrolling" your bit of the galaxy). This implies that that their Pact or Empire or whatever was very, very large. Nevertheless, we don't see any direct evidence of their existence save Ortgay. Also, the only evidence that there are currently any other sapient races active in the world of SotS are the refugees. Of the races we are directly acquainted with, only the Morrigi, and quite likely the Liir, have definitely had access to interstellar for longer than the past thousand years.

With the notable exceptions of a few immensely powerful and quite mobile vessels, the universe seems curiously empty of anything truly ancient.

I would not be at all surprised, then, if black 21 is whatever scoured the galaxy of Stellar Generation Prime and all of the subsequent space-faring cultures that should have arisen since their fall.
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Jakegamer1
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Re: Black 21

Post by Jakegamer1 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:35 pm

mistervec wrote:Stellar Generation Prime was advanced enough to impose its will on distant parts of the galaxy (Ortgay comes from somewhere and goes somewhere when he isn't "patrolling" your bit of the galaxy). This implies that that their Pact or Empire or whatever was very, very large. Nevertheless, we don't see any direct evidence of their existence save Ortgay. Also, the only evidence that there are currently any other sapient races active in the world of SotS are the refugees. Of the races we are directly acquainted with, only the Morrigi, and quite likely the Liir, have definitely had access to interstellar for longer than the past thousand years.

With the notable exceptions of a few immensely powerful and quite mobile vessels, the universe seems curiously empty of anything truly ancient.

I would not be at all surprised, then, if black 21 is whatever scoured the galaxy of Stellar Generation Prime and all of the subsequent space-faring cultures that should have arisen since their fall.



Do we even know that they've fallen and not simply left? Perhaps even poor Ortgay got lost and thinks he's patrolling the correct sector, but is really far from home. As for Black 21, I'd put my money on it being related to either the Locusts or Von Neumann. Von Neumann are nasty though, so it follows suit that their creators are equally or more so.

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Re: Black 21

Post by mistervec » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:09 am

Jakegamer1 wrote:Do we even know that they've fallen and not simply left? Perhaps even poor Ortgay got lost and thinks he's patrolling the correct sector, but is really far from home. As for Black 21, I'd put my money on it being related to either the Locusts or Von Neumann. Von Neumann are nasty though, so it follows suit that their creators are equally or more so.


That's just it. If they were thoughtful enough to not leave behind any trace of themselves before they went elsewhere, they would have brought Ortgay with them or deactivated him or something. There is also tremendous gap in local history between Stellar Generation Prime and the rest of the cultures we get to see. If intelligent life capable of space flight is common enough to pop up at least four times (or five if the Morriggi homeworld is somewhere nearby) within a 250 ly radius of earth within the past few thousand years, then there should have been dozens if not hundreds of interstellar empires that have arisen in the past few billion years.

Even accounting for the possibility that most of the planets in our neck of space were basically uninhabitable until only a billion or so years ago or that plate tectonics would have consumed any evidence of surface habitation, there should still be more clues floating around.

Given what hints have been granted to us about the Locusts, I don't think it would be them. The Locusts are, in a sense, immutable. Provided you have the technological means to put them down without suffering catastrophic losses in the process, then it is only a matter of engaging them whenever they show up on sensors.

I think the VN are a possibility, as they are adaptable and respond to the escalating power of planetary defenses with newer and larger constructs of their own, but have not yet displayed any propensity for highly-organized eradication of life. The VN are often referred to as "ancient", which would imply that, even at their most powerful, the Morrigi and the Tarka never elicited that kind of response from the VN.
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Re: Black 21

Post by ZedF » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:07 am

I think the simplest answer for Stellar Generation Prime is simply that they were (or are) far far away from our neck of the woods, and Ortgay is just wandering around here pretty much of his own volition, since there's nobody around to tell him not to.
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Re: Black 21

Post by jp161 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:42 am

I still think that what we see as DE Police ship in SotS 1, the Ortgay is for the Stellar Generation Prime.

Which would make Black 21 the DN/CR equivalent strikeforce of Steller Generation Prime. :thumbsup:

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Re: Black 21

Post by twentypence » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:10 pm

jp161 wrote:Which would make Black 21 the DN/CR equivalent strikeforce of Steller Generation Prime. :thumbsup:


While I agree that Stellar Generation Prime probably have bigger toys, the phrase "beginning of the end" just doesn't sound quite right for them.
The only "end" I can think of that they would be interested in is the end of warfare, but that wouldn't really be a good thing to have in the winter wars.

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Black 21

Post by ZedF » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:30 pm

I really doubt black 21 has anything to do with stellar generation prime. I tend to think black 21 is the Suul'Ka viewed clearly for the first time while black 20 is a mystery until they later figure out that it was also a Suul'Ka.
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Re: Black 21

Post by Brogatar » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:04 pm

So 21 is the Siren right? Or is that 20?

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Re: Black 21

Post by twentypence » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:19 pm

Brogatar wrote:So 21 is the Siren right? Or is that 20?


From what has been said already I don't believe 20 is the Siren, and we don't know what (or who) 21 is.

If we assume 21 is a Suul'ka, then it could well be the Siren (at the very least a 1/6 chance of it anyway).

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Re: Black 21

Post by GantradiseDracos » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:38 pm

What about the point of origin for the Via Damasco virus?
that statement could be interpreted as meaning the beginning of the end of all organic life, since one of the imperatives the virus adds in its rewrite process is to attampt the complete extermination of all organic life, ostentatiously to prevent "re-enslavement". only, WHAT would create a virus like that? there could be a deeply buried loyalty program, sure, but i think another rouge AI with a God complex is more likely.i mean, way too easy for your "victims" to fratricide you. think the rouge AI in the Empire From the Ashes series that has spent the last several million years socially engineering its "masters" to maintain the state of emergency that its code requires for it to take total control of their society's, and using that control to attempt to wipe out all other life in the galaxy. except targeting lesser synthetic intelligences. remember the end of all flesh. the scenario is close to apocalyptic enough to cause the Pre-prestor zuul to team up with all the other races, including the morrigi. if that isn't dangerously close to the beginning of the end, i am not sure what is.
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erdrik
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Re: Black 21

Post by erdrik » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:37 pm

IIRC the Via Damasco virus has been hinted as being a creation of a certain Solforce traitor mentioned in the Deacons Tale.
Also responsible for helping the Zuul with the early raids on the other races before the Zuul War.

Could be wrong though. memories no workies in morning hazies... :googly:

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Re: Black 21

Post by Aedrion » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:46 pm

Every entry in the Black list so far has been a clear designation of what it was, the last two entries are vague which means SolForce doesn't have all the details yet.

One of the trailers shows that it was a Suul'ka who attacked the Naval Yard, that one was the Hidden, who probably caught everybody off-guard and made off with the SFS Leviathan 1 before anyone really figured out what it was that was stealing their ship. Those that did, I assume, went insane or were otherwise incapacitated by The Hidden.

"The Hidden has always been envious of the Siren’s ability to enslave her victims permanently. His one attempt to create his own Screamers was an attack on the Argos Naval Yard, during which he attempted to seize control of the newly christened S.F.S. Leviathan." - Arinn

The Ghost ship is the result, whatever happened to the crew, nobody knew what it was that attacked them - The Hidden is pretty good at not being seen- and so they have no designation for Black 20 yet, once SolForce gets more info, Black 20 will become: The Hidden or Swims In Silence

Black 21 is completely vague, but we can assume that they didn't know there's 7 Suul'ka at the time Black 20 was entered, it's possible that once information reached the SolForce that multiple entities such as Black 20 existed and were in the galaxy, they designated the whole event as Black 21 and named it what they thought it might be: The beginning of the end.

It's also possible that once SolForce has encoutered or received information about all 7 Suul'ka, Black 21 will become: The Suul'ka.

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Re: Black 21

Post by GildedBear » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:47 pm

More different option. Black 21 is the first Loa ship sighting.

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Re: Black 21

Post by cooptimo » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:39 pm

GildedBear wrote:More different option. Black 21 is the first Loa ship sighting.


I would guess otherwise. Black 21 appears to be a threat much greater then even the Sull'ka. The Loa by comparison appear to be capable of negotiation and diplomacy. We probably will be getting hints about black 21 through the expansions but I bet we don't see them in action until SOTS 3

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Re: Black 21

Post by Scirch » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:30 pm

I think GildedBear is right; the clue to Black 21 was "The beginning of the end". That sounds ominous, but it can easily be applied to the Loa.

After all, the scenario of AI rebellions, and the expansion itself is called "The End of Flesh".

Even if they aren't hostile, they represent a new, possibly superior form of life which could surpass carbon-based life. The six factions could see themselves outcompeted, pushed off of worlds as the Loa bring their own brand of terraforming. We won't necessarily be destroyed by war, but by our inability to keep up with them.
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