So Long

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Minuteman, Jan 7, 2015.


  1. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    As a founding member of this site I have seen it grow and change over these last almost ten years. Some for the better, some for the worse. As we started to grow we faced a lot of new challenges. The biggest was how we were going to govern our site. We had, all of us, the first 12, come from another site where the staff were heavy handed, the mods inconsistent and ban happy. We determined that this site would not be that way. We spent long days hashing out a policy to govern by. We were divided in to two main schools of thought. One side was a total first amendment style free speech camp while the other was more of a stricter, get rid of the trouble makers camp. The liberal argument carried the day and we drew up what is now our Code of Conduct rules. We adopted the 3 strike rule with very strict rules for what constituted a violation. We have been one of the freest and most leniently moderated forums in the cyber world. And it served us well for many years. But I guess it was bound to happen, we began to get a lot of, what I call line skaters. People who learned how to work the system. People, many who have been banned from other forums, who come here and abuse our lenience by being just abrasive enough, just argumentative enough, just provoking enough to skate the line without actually crossing it. And we as staff have handcuffed ourselves with our rigid, free speech rights encoded into our CoC. I was a very vocal supporter of that position during the creation of it. But I tend to think now that we were wrong. It may have worked when we had a few dozen, loyal and dedicated members. We didn't have to censor anyone, and the few trolls and agitators that did come along were soon to violate our lenient CoC rules and earn a seldom used permanent ban. But now that system isn't working anymore. We have too many that come here just to stir things up, troll threads and post inflammatory BS that does nothing but rouse anger and resentment. We get PM's all the time from members asking, "Why don't you do something about so-and-so". The answer is that we can't. We hobbled ourselves with strict rules that allows members to basically say anything they want so long as it doesn't cross a very liberal line. And there are many who know just how close they can come to that line.
    It used to be that I looked forward to coming here each day. I loved to read the new posts, to converse with friends, share thoughts and events. It was my time to relax and enjoy myself. But now I find that those days are gone. I come on here now and almost daily I find something that frankly pisses me off. Some jerk spouting crap about this or that. We have egomaniacs, blowhards, trolls, shit stirrers, loud mouths and ignorant asses that spout some kind of crap nearly everyday. And we have to sit back and allow it. We tolerate it in the name of free speech. We were wrong. I was wrong. We should have listened to the other camp and we should just flat out ban these idiots right from the start. But that isn't the way it is. I recently had to delete one of the longest running threads on here because it had been hijacked. And instead of hitting the ban and delete buttons we had to debate and bleat about it and wonder if we should do anything. So I just deleted the whole thread and put an end to it.
    When I come here to enjoy myself and find instead that all I end up doing is leaving pissed off and frustrated, and when I have to delete an entire thread because it has been hijacked by an asshole troll, and when I get censored for trying to put the asshole in his place, well then it's time to go. It was great for awhile and maybe it is my getting older and less tolerant, but no matter, it has lost it's appeal. It just isn't fun anymore. I used to even enjoy the occasional troll or pot stirrer. I loved to pick them apart, to confront them and confound them to the point that they just left on their own. But even that has lost it's appeal.
    So I am leaving the monkey. I just don't see any reason to come here anymore. I don't enjoy it. I don't find it relaxing. I am getting to old to argue with idiots and listen to bullshit. There are some really fine and exceptional people on here. And I feel privileged to have known many of you, if even just in cyberspace. But like the saying goes it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the whole bushel.
    I may check in once and a while as a guest but I have no intention of participating as a member any longer. Who knows, maybe after a few months away I may feel different but right now my life is much calmer and less stressful the more I stay away from here. So, adios monkey tree, I wish you all the best.
     
    hank2222 likes this.
  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    @Minuteman , I hope you come to reconsider your decision. I have enjoyed your posts and the rare direct online interaction with you. You will be missed no doubt. Tac
     
    3M-TA3, Sapper John, tulianr and 2 others like this.
  3. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Hello my cyber bud. Was in the Methodist church for many years till they approved of abortion, queers in the pulpit, and several other very liberal non Biblically approved issues. I stayed for a couple of years as I was a local and area representative. I tried from the inside to be a strong voice but finally voted with my feet---as did one third of the whole church nation wide. Point is, they later rescinded most of the policies(not all of them) but the gates were closed too late. Had I to do it over again I may have stayed and continued the "fight". Was in the Marines long enough to enjoy a good fight--if for the right reasons.
    Minuteman, I have always admired you, your stance, and how you have "modded" here at the "Monkey". I mod and admin at a couple other sites and know well what hats we have to wear to keep down disruptive/disparaging/etc comments that produce nothing constructive. You do a good job and I appreciate you and the "Monkey". I often recomenc the site to others seeking specific answers to prep questions/etc.
    Your continued presence here is needed--Just take a "leave of action", do a bit of "R&R", look around, and then you will see that you are needed, wanted, and make a difference. Few people really are true influential policy makers---you are.
    To coin an old country farmer's addage----" hang in there like a biting sow"(mama hog with baby pigs--tenacious). Kick some butt where needed/if needed and be someone that likes himself when he looks in the mirror.
     
    Dunerunner, KAS, Pop-pop and 2 others like this.
  4. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    MM, from another founding member that has met both you and your darling wife and call you a friend, I understand your decision and I will greatly miss your thought provoking input. I don't post much here anymore either and have never considered being a moderator just for my stance on free speech but I do profess liberal use of the "ignore" button so I am not bothered by the BS for the most part. As an aside, I recieved a message from another of our long time members that rarely drops in anymore, that she went into the hospital with a cold and woke up with lung cancer. Those of you that know CRC, please send prayers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  5. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King Site Supporter

    I certainly understand MM...especially as one who has stepped WAY back over the past year. I am sure I just could not do it as a moderator. I have only been around the last 4 or 5 years, but over the last 18 mos, I have gone from The Monkey being the page to which my browser opens to dropping in about once a day, reading the new thread titles and occasionally actually reading or even participating in a discussion...just too many fools and children.

    With you leaving, the percentage of folks worth reading drops once again...I am sorry to see that, as it makes it that much closer to the day it just won't be worth stopping in any more.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  6. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    I've always found this site as more of a "learning experience" than one for general face page style chit-chat. Few few disagreements I've witnessed were rather tame compared to another forum I was on for a few years.

    Trolls come and go but the majority of Monkeys appear to be productive and content with things here. I enjoy reading different viewpoints as they get me to think in different ways on many subjects.

    Try taking a break from all things inter web for awhile, works for me.
     
  7. Pop-pop

    Pop-pop Monkey

    Hi, I just joined this site yesterday and am still learning my way around. I love learning especially from good people as I am seeing here and don't like the idea of missing out on the opportunity to learn from someone that is from what I have read so far an obvious conscientious, moral, solid and a stand up person. I agree 100% with -06 "Just take a "leave of action", do a bit of "R&R", look around, and then you will see that you are needed, wanted, and make a difference. Few people really are true influential policy makers---you are. "
     
  8. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    I hope you might reconsider MM. We would miss your viewpoint as it is often one of the more common sense ones.
     
    Sapper John likes this.
  9. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    I, for one of the many, am glad to have read and enjoyed your post.

    The outright Trolls or other line benders? Well for me that is surly a moderator event and not much I can do except to hit the "Do Not Read This Crap" button.

    Hope you come back and if not then we may see this list go the way of others.

    HK
     
  10. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    @Minuteman I have enjoyed our interactions in the Faith & Religion forums, over the years... and it is with a Heavy heart that I read your Post about leaving the Monkey.... it will certainly be a BIG LOSS, to all of us, to lose our Chaplain... and the words of Faith, that you bring here with you.... I would Hope, that down the road a piece, you will come visit, and maybe reconnect with us.... Prayers for You, and yours, that Your GOD, will heal your Soul....
     
    Brokor likes this.
  11. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King Site Supporter

    CC as in ColtCarbine? :(
     
  12. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I may be wrong, but it is my belief that @Seacowboys meant OUR OWN CRC....
     
  13. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

  14. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    You are correct, BT CRC
     
  15. scrapman21009

    scrapman21009 Chupacabra Hunter

    MM, although you and I have not talked to each other directly, I have truly enjoyed you post and learned a lot from them. the views you hold and the information you bring really add to our discussions. The lounge will not be the same without you, nor will faith and religion. If you ever make it to Harford County, MD look me up and I would consider it an honor for my family to have you at our table.

    CRC - My hopes and prayers are with you and I will send positive thoughts your way.

    All Other Monkeys - We all need to do our best to patrol our own and try to make sure we don't lose assets like MM, or any other of our great members and the knowledge and friendship they bring. It is such a shame that a few can ruin it for the many, and MM's absence will be a loss to us all. I still continue to believe that the Monkey is one of, if not the BEST forum around, and will still come here as a source of information and to be among those that I consider FRIENDS, not just cyber, but true friends in every way.
     
    Tracy, tulianr, Yard Dart and 2 others like this.
  16. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Interestingly, some of us were just discussing the need to snipe the more obvious troublemakers rather than let them continue to soil informative threads. This would have been a good time to have tried that and it would have been great to have had the opportunity to discuss necessary changes to the CoC with your level headedness and logical nature at the table.

    A CoC revision has been long overdue and I'm sad that your departure will become the trigger for this.
     
    Tracy likes this.
  17. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    My number one thought on a revision is to never post an anonymous statement from or for anyone. As I remember that type of post about a vendor was why I looked into the Survival Monkey Forums.
     
  18. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King Site Supporter

    OK...being something of a noob by comparison, I really don't know CRC, but I am sorry to hear of that issue for any monkey whether I know them or not.
     
  19. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Not knowing which thread, the identity of the hjacker, nor the nature of the hijack, I'm in no position to comment on whether the thread deletion was merited or whether the censure perceived by you justifies your self exclusion from SM. You know your own mind and motivations better than anyone else here does and if you feel that SM is too frustrating to endure any further, then self exclusion is your choice to make. I for one wouldn't feel any gratification at your self imposed sabbatical. We have disagreed on many issues (mainly issues of faith), but have been in agreement occasionally and even supportive of commonly held views at times.

    Being a moderator is not the easiest of jobs in ensuring a balance between robust, but respectful debate; and forum behaviour which is destructive and abusive. I would not accept the position of moderator (in the unlikely event that I were to be offered such a role) in the F&R Forum, simply because I would feel a conflict of interest in mediating a forum where I hold a partisan viewpoint.

    I'm sure that I have contributed my fair share of frustration to some over the years that I have been a member here, not so much in attacking them as persons, but in challenging ideas and values that they hold as precious to themselves. I think that there is value in people being able to express dissent from popularly held beliefs. That is the essence of the freedom of belief and expression: Else the site degenerates into a mutual agreement society with all the disadvantages that comes with herd-like group think. The CoC represents the rules of acceptable behaviour, and if the CoC needs to be modified to enable the site to function effectively for the benefit of all, then I would support such a process.

    I do not consider the severity or laxity of CoC rule enforcement as being an issue of liberal / conservative dichotomy. It doesn't have to be soleley one...or the other. The CoC needs to have the flexibility to deal with inappropriate behaviour on its individual merits.

    It goes without saying that freedom of speech does not guarantee that one may not occasionally be offended by the ideas and expressions of others who will make use of that freedom. If I am offended by what others express, I will sometimes challenge the rational basis of the ideas that they promote, or will express my contempt for those ideas, or I will exercise the power of the ignore button. There are some here, whose politics and beliefs don't grock with me. Because I feel no great regard for them or what they say is no reason for me to request their exclusion / removal from the site.
     
  20. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Well, I suggest taking a few months vacation from the Monkey. It works fine for me. Some of you know I have done this from time to time through the years, having rubbed elbows with quite a few members around here and reaching a point of wanting to call it quits. Listen, MM don't leave. Just take a break, as long as you like. Believe it or not, some of you are like family to me, and I count you among those I call family. I respect your thoughts very much and I hold you in high regards. I hope to see you around here again in the near future.

    Some things I like to do to keep my sanity around here:

    1. Use the ignore feature. It will also ignore all the Shoutbox posts of the ignored user. Almost like they don't even exist.
    2. Go take a break, come back when you are ready. You may find a new desire to post again some day.
    3. If you do come back, find a way to get involved (like a project on the forum) and see what the other mods and admins can add to help you decide what may be best.
    4. Remember this is your home as much as it is ours...the door will always be open and Ghrit will keep some coffee warm just in case.

    On another note, it's strange I didn't receive a text from CRC. I will have to drop her a line to see how she is.
     
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