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I'm sure we can all agree that the items category needs some refinement. There have been a couple of suggestions about how to go about this and I'd like to get some feedback on what users are looking for. Also, if anyone has alternate suggestions, please bring them up. Loleil 00:44, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Polexian's suggestion

Inventory

Weapons
Armor
Accessories
Craft
Usable Items
Quest Items

(copied from User talk:Loleil/Archive 5)

Loleil's suggestion

  • Equipment
    • Stays as is
  • Items (strip out armour and weapons from this category or make "items" the group heading and have equipment as a sub-heading)
    • Crafting items (lightning shard, frost rock, etc.)
    • Gifts
    • Plot items
    • Potions (slight problem as I would want to include all salves, poultices, etc. and they're not technically potions) Consumables (per Tierrie's suggestion)
    • Recipes
    • Tomes
    • Traps
  • Loleil 00:44, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Funny enough I have been for the fun of it working on this already. Current Projects and just a second ago left you a message on it. Hollowness 00:51, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Looking good! do you have any thoughts on what sort of category tree would work best. Loleil 00:54, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
User_blog:Hollowness/Item_/_Weapon_/_Armor_-_Info_Tables So far I found the most agreeable. Hollowness 00:57, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Forgive me if I'm missing the obvious, but all I can see there is an alternate table format. Loleil 01:00, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, just for the items, Inventory: Item, Weapon, Armor, Accessories* [*Edit: shoot I forgot Accessories]. would be the tree, its isnt explained more of a visual and the tables. Mostly a mimic of in game, I haven't had a chance for a look through for spells/talents yet [Edit: stil in working on spell/talent concepts. Sorry I am currently on the worst computer/keyboard ever!]. Hollowness 01:11, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
I don't see a category tree in your blog Hollowness. I see what you're working on - but nothing with regards to the Menu. --Tierrie
I believe I misunderstood, Items to be caterorize as Inventory: Item|Weapon|Armor|Acessories, (and noticed I did forget Accessories, originally).Hollowness 01:27, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Items are a fair bit more complicated than that. The first level is easy enough - Weapon/Armor/Accessories. I don't think Items should be part of it. Keep it equippable and we have enough for a category. But as you delve into it it becomes more murky. Where does Kaddis, Collars, Large Crystals and Small Crystals fall? How do you want to divide/sub-divide the Armor into Heavy, Light and Medium. Or do you want to subdivide it into Helmet, Gloves, Boots? I put up a proposal below, but I think it has room for improvement. --Tierrie 01:44, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
I find the break downs of types of armors/ weapons / accessories can be organized on the pages. I found the most difficult thing on this site was locating gear and back tracking to types of armors tedious, simple tables like what is currently on the armor/weapons pages can organize that on that category. Its just my opinion if a detailed break down is more popular that's fine :) Hollowness 01:53, January 12, 2010 (UTC)



@Loleil, I prefer your categorization of the items - into wearable items and non wearable items (with your nomenclature). Some suggestions are as follows:

  1. Instead of Potions, you could use the term Consumables to include salves and potions
  2. Exclude recipes as they are not items. Put them under Crafting/Tradeskills

I'd also suggest that the Equipment be revisited as well into something like the following

  • Equipment
    • Armor
      • Heavy Armor
        • Heavy Armor
        • Heavy Gloves
        • Heavy Helmet
      • Large Crystals
    • Weapons
      • Longswords
      • Small Crystals
      • etc
    • Dog
      • Kaddis
      • Collars
    • Accessories
      • Rings
      • Amulets
      • Belts

On a related note, I am concerned that we have too many items in the table of content and some of them are ambiguous. I'll raise this concern in another post. --Tierrie 01:21, January 12, 2010 (UTC)



I believe I originally misunderstood category tree:

Inventory Items


Items [Page]

  • Consumables [Table]
    • Potions
    • Slaves
    • Etc.
  • Gifts [List/Redirect to Gifts Page]
    • List
  • Quest Items [List or Table]
    • [Optional]
  • Other [Table]


Armor [Page]

  • Clothing[Table]
  • Light Armor
  • Medium Armor [Table]
  • Heavy Armor [Table]
  • Massive Armor [Table]
  • Shields [Table]
  • Dog
    • Kaddis [Table]
    • Collars [Table]
  • Shale
    • Large Crystals [Table]
    • Small Crystals [Table]


Weapons [Page]

  • Melee
    • Main Hand [Table]
    • One Hand [Table]
    • Two Hand [Table]
  • Range
    • Bows [Table]
    • Ammo (Arrows, Bolts)[Table]
    • Staves [Table]


Accessories [Page]

  • Amulets [Table]
  • Belts [Table]
  • Rings [Table]

Just a suggestion relying on more tables and less pages but similar to the general scheme. Hollowness 02:20, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

@Hollowness, I like it. You need to make adjustments for Heavy Armor - it is ambiguous and can refer to the weight class or the chest piece. --Tierrie 02:21, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

  • Armor Cloth
    • Chest Slot [Table]
    • Head Slot [Table]
    • Feet Slot [Table]
    • Hands Slot [Table]
  • Armor Light
    • Chest Slot [Table]
    • Head Slot [Table]
    • Feet Slot [Table]
    • Hands Slot [Table]
  • Armor Medium
    • Chest Slot [Table]
    • Head Slot [Table]
    • Feet Slot [Table]
    • Hands Slot [Table]

Etc.

How is that? Hollowness 02:30, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

@Hollowness:Glad we're on the same page now, and yep that sounds good and is similar to how things were set up. Your recent suggestion and Tierrie's above suggestion will both work well, though I prefer using gloves and helmets and the like for the subcategories.
@Tierrie:Consumables! That works well, and that's sounding like a good plan. Do you have any preference on whether items should be the head category for everything, or only used for everything that's not equipment? And agreed about the TOC, see you in the discussion. Smiley Loleil 02:37, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Items=Everything that is not equipment, IMO. Ya sorry I am a scatterbrian or having lack of sleep sometimes I need to reread things 5 times :P Hollowness 02:45, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
@Loleil, You always nailed the words right on and I trust you'd pick words that is immediately obvious that one category is equipable and the other is not. And I also prefer the usage of the words like Helmets, Gloves, Boots and Chest Piece instead of the unwieldy Head Slots. My only concern is that the chest piece deviate from the in game usage of "Armor" to denote chest piece. This is to prevent ambiguity between the chest armor and the weight class. --Tierrie 03:20, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

New Proposal

I've tried to amalgamate everyone's suggestions together at my sandbox. How does that look to everyone? Loleil 05:39, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Possible fix for Item issue term "Object(s)". I think Traps can be covered in use/non-consumables (or other items) and Recipies are covered enough or should be covered under the appropriate Skill that it is unnecessary to add them hear in detail, so listed as an item with description should suffice. Even possibly changing "Consummables" to "Use Items". Hollowness 05:57, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
There already an object category (which I'd forgotten about), though I think we could actually make that the main category for usable items making it:
  • Items
    • Equpment
    • Objects
Hmm it could work, and would save issues arising from the use of the ItemTransformer. Loleil 06:36, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Really, up to you, it is a quick/easy fix, or it could serve as temporary solution too. Hollowness 06:41, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

The way it is set up right now looks great. You could change Inventory to Equipment and under Equipment put in Items and move the other menus to it's perspective places. As far as the leg work for removing the items flag on armor I think it would be better if we did this. Fix it right the first time. Even if it takes a week to do. Usable items is something you can use and Item just specifies that it is an item, usable or not.--Polexian 14:16, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

@Loleil, I will be glad to go in and clean up the tags used by ItemTransformer. The core problems lies with the fact that ItemTransformer inherits ItemInfoBox, which includes the tag.
A few other comments on your Sandbox. Large Crystals should be one up on the same level as Massive Armor, Heavy Armor, Medium Armor, Light Armor, Clothings, Collars and Kaddis
Item Sets could be on the same level as Armor, Weapons and Accessories if you so choose. Otherwise, it looks great! I'd say implement it and then see where it needs to be tweaked. --Tierrie 22:13, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Alrighty. Items shall henceforth not be used for equipment. I'll start creating the categories that need to be created. Loleil 03:17, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
So, Armor, Weapons shall be in the equipment category and potions, enhancements, and elfroot shall be in the items category? --Polexian 12:25, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
That's the idea Smiley.--Loleil 22:01, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
How do you remove the Item Category from the Armors? --Polexian 22:11, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Armors inherit the Item category from the ItemInfoBox template. Some template hackery needs to be done to remove it - and subsequently readd it to all other Items. Alternatively, we can create ArmorInfoBox and WeaponInfoBox and modify the ItemTransformer template.
I like the idea of creating new armor and weapon boxes if you can. Loleil 00:45, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
I'll put the whole Herbalism stuff on hold and do the boxes tonight. --Tierrie 02:31, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks Tierrie! If I can do anything at all to help let me know. Loleil 02:57, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
Infoboxes are awesome. Just learned how to do them myself. Quest Items was my first use. --Polexian 05:43, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
@Loleil, I just nailed two birds with one stone - I moved Weapons over to WeaponTransformer that switches between WeaponInfoBox and WeaponTableRow. While I did that I also swapped over to a <onlyinclude> syntax instead of <includeonly>. The difference between the two are pretty substantial. And should prevent people from accidentally including rubbish into table rows. I also stopped weapons from auto-including the category ategories from the Template - instead, I manually attaching Category:Weapons to each weapon individually. This will prevent any sort of crazy inheritance problem we had before.
I might have missed some weapons, so if you see any weapons that use the ItemTransformer template, or doesn't have the Category:Weapon, please help me fix it.
If all goes well, I will work on the Accessories tomorrow, and then Shields and lastly, Armor. --Tierrie 09:34, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
You're a champ! Loleil 10:19, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Would one of you two edit ItemTransformer to include these two lines please.
:itemtable=ItemTableRow
* style=itemtable: [[Template:ItemTableRow]]

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