tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post657434474614838955..comments2011-04-09T15:17:31.588-04:00Comments on THE GALAXY EXPRESS: The $2.5 Billion (And Counting) AVATAR QuestionHeather Masseyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-33883870582891299962010-03-12T16:27:01.477-05:002010-03-12T16:27:01.477-05:00Linnea, I knew my wording needed major revision. I...Linnea, I knew my wording needed major revision. I do like yours better. Shorter is very desirable in an ad&#39;s limited space, whether you pay by the word or the inch. {Smile}<br /><br />Still, I&#39;m very glad to see directions on how to find books when there are shelving issues that might make it harder to find. {Smile}<br /><br />Anne Elizabeth Baldwin<br /><br /><br />Anne Elizabeth BaldwinAnne Elizabeth Baldwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05083766769757259822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-36365034320524692502010-03-12T05:13:48.729-05:002010-03-12T05:13:48.729-05:00I&#39;m a tad late with this post but I can alread...I&#39;m a tad late with this post but I can already say it&#39;s had some effects in readers. I was wandering by the SFR threads at Amazon and noticed folks asking for book versions of what we saw in Avatar. After jumping up and down and cheering *ahem* I told them unfortunately I couldn&#39;t think of any direct books in SFR that mirrored it but that it was coming to novel format thanks to Cameron himself. So the market is definitely out there based on the wide range of viewers who went and of course the growing Avatar fan community. It had awesome action, romance, adventure and wonderful SF/futurism that makes the narrative versions have such a wide range of cross over appeal. I have to say I myself am looking forward to books that are inspired by Avatar&#39;s door opening and reader interest!Rae Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18401577264246893702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-62771966192711447162010-03-10T22:12:58.808-05:002010-03-10T22:12:58.808-05:00The key is to find a way to simultaneously populat...<i>The key is to find a way to simultaneously populate both sections with cross-genere stuff.</i><br /><br />I was rather hoping AVATAR could be one such key! I think it takes the guessing out of defining SFR for readers new to the subgenre (assuming they&#39;ve seen the film, of course). Even if booksellers and publishers don&#39;t go there (although I find it hard to believe that 2.5 billion dollars does not register with them), I think SFR fans and authors can use it as a reference point. I agree the F/X was a huge draw, but there have been other films with similar big budgets--relative to their times--that have not made 2.5 billion dollars. <br /><br />If it&#39;s really just the flashy special effects, why don&#39;t all of those type movies (e.g., WATERWORLD, 2012) make the same amount of money?<br /><br />What is Cameron doing differently? (questions not specifically directed at you, XandraG! Your thought-provoking comments just launched me in a contemplative direction).<br /><br />Gini, thanks for your insights. Good stuff to know, and I salute DAW for taking the plunge. Not that I needed any convincing, but now I am even more interested in reading your book. <br /><br />Plug alert: I&#39;m going to hijack my own post to inform my fine passengers that they can look forward to an interview with Gini Koch on April 6--the day her book TOUCHED BY AN ALIEN is released--right here at The Galaxy Express! (LOL, I love this gig!)<br /><br /><i>Money is still really what changes everything, after all.</i><br /><br />Too true. Maybe James Cameron will invest some of that 2.5 billion into SFR books. Just sayin&#39;.Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-79456664742632047232010-03-10T15:16:09.622-05:002010-03-10T15:16:09.622-05:00I think some of why the publishers don&#39;t push ...I think some of why the publishers don&#39;t push SFR is because they still feel that science fiction appeals more to men than women, so they want the romantic elements downplayed. I don&#39;t think they&#39;re right, but that seems to be the general feeling from the agents, editors and authors I talk to.<br /><br />Avatar is a four-quadrant movie, but I think we&#39;d hear that the males liked the special effects versus the females liking the romance. (I can argue this -- the hubs LOVED Titanic because of the love story while I thought Rose was an idiot.) Of all the entertainment industries, publishing seems the slowest to change.<br /><br />DAW feels that they&#39;re taking a huge risk with my Alien series, which I would (and did) classify as SFR. It feels &#39;out there&#39; to them, and I know it&#39;s because of the romance and humor. <br /><br />So, what will it take? Probably a book or a series doing SO well that men admit to liking the romance portions or &quot;not minding&quot; them. Money is still really what changes everything, after all.Gini Kochhttp://www.ginikoch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-57215555981643831322010-03-10T09:04:43.225-05:002010-03-10T09:04:43.225-05:00It&#39;s hard to say, beyond the fact that a hundr...It&#39;s hard to say, beyond the fact that a hundred and fifty million dollars will buy a LOT of promo. I&#39;m with the other poster who said nobody who saw Avatar and talked about it said much about the plot.<br /><br />Most of the promo surrounded the SFX rather than the story, and a good portion of the buzz surrounded the sheer amount of money and tech that went into the production, as opposed to any special effort in the writing. How much of the viewership was hype-rubberneckers and curiosity-seekers? Those viewers aren&#39;t going to be seeking out more SFR, they&#39;re just there for the spectacle. And the harder-core fans...if they like Avatar, they&#39;ll go seek out Avatar fanfic.<br /><br />I don&#39;t see a lot of success with using media association to promote books--the studio will do its own media tie-ins and look to promote its own cross-pollinated media. Booksellers can hand-sell, sure, and I&#39;m sure the good ones do already with all hit movies. <br /><br />I think marketing SFR is going to require a break in the boundaries of genre. Romance readers are very articulate in identifying their comfort zone elements, or their trigger elements, and romance publishers are very good (or should be, it&#39;s not like we don&#39;t yell from the rooftops about what we want, LOL). SF readers are similar in temperament, and the two sections of the bookstore are strangers to each other for much of the time. The key is to find a way to simultaneously populate both sections with cross-genere stuff. <br /><br />Ebooks ought to make that easier. Imagine Linnea&#39;s books having a sci-fi cover for the SF section and a romance-y cover for the romance section of an online store.XandraGhttp://www.xandragregory.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-30596621204275765342010-03-09T14:48:35.144-05:002010-03-09T14:48:35.144-05:00@Linnea LOL! I totally missed that! No, I hadn&#39...@Linnea LOL! I totally missed that! No, I hadn&#39;t intended the pun but hey, let&#39;s go for it anyway!<br /><br />V,<br /><br />They push the visuals because that’s easier for people to grasp quickly. All the marketing needs to do is show some of the eye-popping action sequences and most people will think, “Wow! I need to see that.” They can convey this in only a few seconds in a trailer or TV commercial. <br /><br />Explaining the story, however, takes longer (not that it’s HAMLET by any means, as you’ll see). Plus, every studio says its new film’s story is great. How can you trust this? Leading with marketing their top SFX is showing instead of telling.<br /><br />As I mentioned in the post though, there are plenty of other big budget SFX spectacles with huge marketing budgets behind them that have only earned a fraction of AVATAR’s take. People across all demographics are responding to it in a way that far exceeds the allure of 3D or Cameron’s name—although those elements certainly help. This shows that SFR isn’t relegated to a small audience.<br /><br />I hope this fact doesn’t escape publishers and demonstrates to them that there is a clear, strong audience for science fiction stories with romantic elements out there. It just needs its chance to spread its big honking dragon wings. <br /><br />I’m curious to find out if booksellers are using any AVATAR film-related books (e.g., THE ART OF AVATAR) to cross promote their SFR stock. For example, place a selection of SFR books near the AVATAR ones with a sign stating, “If you like AVATAR, you’ll enjoy these titles.” Or maybe, “Recapture the magic of AVATAR with these stellar space opera adventures.” LOL—okay, maybe not so dramatic :P but something to that effect.Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-23312753158386471982010-03-09T13:38:03.600-05:002010-03-09T13:38:03.600-05:00i haven&#39;t seen the movie yet too. but the big ...i haven&#39;t seen the movie yet too. but the big push that i&#39;ve seen is for the visuals than for the storyline. i&#39;ll make sure to come back here after i watch this film.<br /><br />btw: you&#39;ve been awarded ;-D<br />http://vvb32reads.blogspot.com/2010/02/one-lovely-blog-award.htmlvvb32 readshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924589941745430884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-34440584632946740752010-03-09T10:23:25.179-05:002010-03-09T10:23:25.179-05:00@Heather: ** And years ago, someone asked them to ...@Heather: ** And years ago, someone asked them to craft a promotion with paranormal elements, which was reportedly a &quot;dead&quot; market at one time....<br />**<br /><br />Vampires? A DEAD market? Is that a pun, Heather? ::ducks and runs...::Linnea Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03633057411107208569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-14599572588400731582010-03-09T10:21:30.820-05:002010-03-09T10:21:30.820-05:00@AEB--Thanks, Anne. I have put that line (somewhat...@AEB--Thanks, Anne. I have put that line (somewhat shortened) in some ads but will try to work it into more. Issue is space. That&#39;s a lot of words. &quot;Check the SF and Romance Shelves!&quot; would probably be a better tag. I also hope that most bookstore shoppers will use the free computers most stores have to locate a book if they can&#39;t find it in the store (it tells you what shelf/aisle). BTW half of the Books A Million I go into don&#39;t stock me at all, anywhere. ;-) <br /><br />If only I could rate a front-store dump. THAT would solve all the problems... ;-) Hell, I&#39;d take an end-cap. But... ::sigh:: <br /><br />~LinneaLinnea Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03633057411107208569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-14863998330660624492010-03-09T07:20:29.108-05:002010-03-09T07:20:29.108-05:00The stumbling block I see is the audience for each...The stumbling block I see is the audience for each story. Avator was a four-quadrant hit. It appealed to men and women under and above the age of 25.<br /><br />At this time, New Release Science Fiction Romance appeals almost entirely to Women Only and Only Over Thirty, and those who like Highly Sensual or hotter. That&#39;s an extremely narrow audience. Someone figured out that this group is most likely to read SFR. Unfortunately, it&#39;s not a big enough group to carry SFR into the big time. More stories with wider appeal need to be written and published. The characters need greater age differences. Some of the novels&#39; Heat Levels need to be cooled off. Some need to address issues important to twenty year olds, like finding one&#39;s way in the universe alone for the first time. <br /><br />Until this happens, movies like AVATAR will be little help, in my opinion.<br />.<br />P.S. We went to see AVATAR in 3D and it made me nauseas. I had to take off the glasses right away.Kimber Anhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03982239712083114488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-88266773395985601132010-03-09T04:57:11.969-05:002010-03-09T04:57:11.969-05:00Thanks Heather. {Relieved Smile}I was thinking tha...Thanks Heather. {Relieved Smile}I was thinking that my comment had nothing to do with Avatar. I guess it is on-topic for The Galaxy Express. {SMILE}<br /><br />Anne Elizabeth BaldwinAnne Elizabeth Baldwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05083766769757259822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-85186858346295915142010-03-09T00:44:36.797-05:002010-03-09T00:44:36.797-05:00I think your post spot on Heather. A movie like A...I think your post spot on Heather. A movie like Avatar can definitely help SFR. I&#39;m in the camp that thinks 1) it&#39;s great piece of entertainment and 2) it will change movies going forward. I think Avatar succeeded so well with so many people because the story was balanced with meaningful relationship stories. That sounds familiar doesn&#39;t it? The best SFR also balances amazing settings, wild creativity, and real romance. You know, James Cameron is actually writing a prequel novel for Avatar, and if that isn&#39;t a clear signpost that there&#39;s an audience for this type of thing, I don&#39;t know what is. I think it&#39;s all good news.Rebecca @ DSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08418792031224765961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-59339209974129139642010-03-08T22:41:14.521-05:002010-03-08T22:41:14.521-05:00Anne, if that&#39;s being off topic, I&#39;m a mon...Anne, if that&#39;s being off topic, I&#39;m a monkey&#39;s uncle!Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-38493486070138032562010-03-08T22:11:04.474-05:002010-03-08T22:11:04.474-05:00Ah... Linnea? I&#39;ve admired your ads in Realms ...Ah... Linnea? I&#39;ve admired your ads in <i>Realms of Fantasy</i>. They have a way of playing up the Sci Fi elements, which should appeal to the readers of that magazine. At least they appeal to me, and I&#39;ve subscribed that one for years. {Smile}<br /><br />However, I keep wishing you&#39;d add one little line, to the effect of &quot;May be found in either the science fiction section or the romance section, depending on the bookstore.&quot;<br /><br />{pause} It&#39;s just that I wouldn&#39;t have thought of checking the romance aisle for the books. Especially not the way they&#39;re described in <i>Realms of Fantasy.</i> Maybe I&#39;m being dense here... but I doubt I&#39;m the only one who would be. {apologetic smile}<br /><br />Sorry to Heather for the off-topic comment... but much thanks for giving me precisely the nudge needed to follow that shift in shelving. {Smile}<br /><br />Anne Elizabeth BaldwinAnne Elizabeth Baldwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05083766769757259822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-90131965825174582272010-03-08T21:15:44.726-05:002010-03-08T21:15:44.726-05:00I think you&#39;re on to something because stunnin...<i>I think you&#39;re on to something because stunning visuals with a truly crappy story wouldn&#39;t have made so much money.</i><br /><br />I think AVATAR had *enough* story, and while it felt like a retread for many genre fans (including this one), for viewers new to SF it would seem fresh. So the question becomes, how can authors and publishers tap into that franchise (to echo Linnea&#39;s observation)?<br /><br />I agree with Robert that the studio&#39;s marketing wasn&#39;t a significant factor (except to ensure that a ton of people knew the movie existed). The images, trailers, and other coverage smacked of SF. I thought it would tank solely for that reason. I was also surprised by how much romance it actually has.<br /><br />Audiences came because it was a blockbuster film and because of Cameron&#39;s name, but they kept coming because of word of mouth.<br /><br /><i>you&#39;re asking a romance buyer of a chain bookstore to craft a promotion with SF elements.</i><br /><br />If it reminds customers of AVATAR, then yes! It&#39;s a place to start. And years ago, someone asked them to craft a promotion with paranormal elements, which was reportedly a &quot;dead&quot; market at one time....<br /><br /><i>Someone should get him to guest blog on Galaxy Express.</i><br /><br />I <i>know</i>.<br /><br /><i>They&#39;d have to EPIC, and not centred around the bedroom, I&#39;m guessing</i><br /><br />This is where a series SFR might come in handy, like one featuring a league of military starship captains or brotherhoods or what have you, set in the same universe and with each book focusing on a different couple. I know epic SFR would be a hard sell for print publishers, but what about ebooks? <br /><br />Or, it might take an established author to break out with an epic, AVATAR-like tale. Or all of the above...?Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-54581634209678301102010-03-08T20:34:52.952-05:002010-03-08T20:34:52.952-05:00The amazing thing about Avatar (and also Titanic) ...The amazing thing about Avatar (and also Titanic) is the negativity surrounding it before it opened. The first trailer was NOT liked, and the infamous &quot;Avatar Day&quot;, when 20 mins of 3D footage was previewed for free on IMAX screens, didn&#39;t create the feverish anticipation the studio intended. <br /><br />Even diehard Cameron fans were jittery.<br /><br />Then it opened well (if not spectacularly). The reviews were very positive. But what shot it into the stratosphere was word of mouth, not marketing. Same with Titanic. I don&#39;t think Avatar was particularly well advertised--the blue dudes look downright goofy until you see the film--and the 3D was definitely the catalyst. But this thing has struck a chord. And whenever a movie strikes a chord, it&#39;s because folks love the STORY, not just the effects. <br /><br />Cameron is writing a novel set on Pandora, I heard. His first novel. How cool is that? Someone should get him to guest blog on Galaxy Express. No pressure then, Heather... hehe<br /><br />But now is the perfect time for riding the SFR wave. Between now and the sequel, and whatever JC is cooking up with his book, the genre could explode. Avatar is as close to a SFR movie as I&#39;ve seen. But will it persuade moviegoers to give SFR books a try? Mm. They&#39;d have to EPIC, and not centred around the bedroom, I&#39;m guessing.Robert Appletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03882132932044479281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-38950800040566594652010-03-08T20:24:17.061-05:002010-03-08T20:24:17.061-05:00I&#39;ve yet to see Avatar (intend to though the 3...I&#39;ve yet to see Avatar (intend to though the 3D might not apply by the time I get around to it, or rather, the 6&#39;4&quot; huz agrees to go slink down in a theatre somewhere...not his fave time...). But the tie-in of SF and romance via films (and TV) is a song I far too well know the tune to. I feel it&#39;s a natural transition--it was for the Star Wars movie-to-book franchise, as well as Trek. Many of those books touched far more heavily on the romances of main or minor characters. Hell, Trek fan fic (when I wrote it) was overrun with Trek romance plots. <br /><br />The problem is, yes, getting the NY houses to promote their SFR authors as such. Right now, I don&#39;t see that happening. Since SFR is a shelving problem (keep in mind in B&amp;N I&#39;m shelved in SF and in Borders in romance) and since marketing budget is greatly affected by which genre buyer is in charge (ie: the romance buyer of the chain bookstores has a larger budget than the SF buyer, since romance is 45% +/- of the market), you&#39;re asking a romance buyer of a chain bookstore to craft a promotion with SF elements.<br /><br />Say what?<br /><br />Yes, the publishers have their marketing departments but they coordinate WITH the brick &amp; mortar buyers, and that&#39;s where the end product is advertised: in the stores. The SF buyer at Borders doesn&#39;t have the budget or interest in luring romance readers, and the romance buyer at B&amp;N hasn&#39;t a clue what SF readers want.<br /><br />This be the reason I fund my own print ads in mags like SCI FI and REALMS OF FANTASY. I know who my readers are: they straddle both aisles. So I spend money (far too much according to my huz and my agent) to try to reach them. But it&#39;s an uphill battle. ~LinneaLinnea Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03633057411107208569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-54833037381407733222010-03-08T17:31:18.903-05:002010-03-08T17:31:18.903-05:00I&#39;m actually going to have a look at the trail...I&#39;m actually going to have a look at the trailers and see what got stressed in the marketing for the movie. Seems like there ought to be some takeaway for books...Marcella Burnardhttp://www.marcellaburnard.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-33639650038185127572010-03-08T17:23:19.618-05:002010-03-08T17:23:19.618-05:00True, most of the raving for Avatar was for the vi...True, most of the raving for Avatar was for the visual overload and the fact that the rest didn&#39;t totally suck. Can&#39;t translate the first part to a book, I guess?Writer and Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13733607365443126784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4792953149341927603.post-79260649975842802122010-03-08T13:40:09.886-05:002010-03-08T13:40:09.886-05:00Hmm. Interesting questions. I wonder if Avatar di...Hmm. Interesting questions. I wonder if Avatar didn&#39;t have name recognition going for it. Everyone knows James Cameron = Titanic. Everyone knows he&#39;s going to deliver huge visual overload. And everyone I&#39;ve known who&#39;s seen Avatar never talked about the story. Except to say it wasn&#39;t anything to write home about. All of the raving was reserved for the CGI and the visuals. Still. I think you&#39;re on to something because stunning visuals with a truly crappy story wouldn&#39;t have made so much money. So how was Avatar marketed? That&#39;s what&#39;s going to point the way for publishers, I would think. How does a publisher&#39;s market department capture the feel of Avatar&#39;s &quot;come see this movie&quot; message and translate that to &quot;read these books&quot;?<br /><br />Wish I had the answer. I&#39;d make millions.Marcella Burnardhttp://www.marcellaburnard.comnoreply@blogger.com
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