tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post5436284552750953665..comments2020-01-19T20:32:59.176-08:00Comments on Rocketpunk Manifesto: Trantor: the Big TownRickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-66150092452504271652019-12-05T21:49:14.425-08:002019-12-05T21:49:14.425-08:00Are you talking about 511 tactical kiltAre you talking about <a href="https://customkilt.com/511-tactical-duty-kilt" rel="nofollow">511 tactical kilt</a>customkilt.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04804753769799694442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-53802375745122850862017-03-29T05:34:38.340-07:002017-03-29T05:34:38.340-07:00It has been a while since I last commented on this...It has been a while since I last commented on this particular blog and it&#39;s nice to see you back Rick. Anywho I figured that I might as well comment on the entry detailing the ecumenopolis. As I was reading the comments (yes, ALL of them) to see if anyone touched upon the subject I am about to bring up was J.Lewis with his indoor agriculture comment and Hollister David mentioning plants being lit beneath LED lighting for photoshythesis, and that issue being <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_tvJtUHnmU" rel="nofollow">Urban Agriculture</a>.<br /><br />Specifically <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdceGTpMIGk" rel="nofollow">Aeroponics as seen in this particular segment of that Ecopolis show (does anyone even remember that show?)</a> which is suppose to (key word being &quot;suppose&quot;) feed a substantial number of people with little environmental impact within an equally limited amount of space. I don&#39;t know the specifics (I only skimmed through the videos and I&#39;m doing this comment at like 5AM in the morning, I&#39;m surprised that I can be legible this late, or early), but I&#39;m sure a few dozen &quot;Vertical Agriculture Districts&quot; across any Trantor-esque worlds that came to be &quot;naturally&quot;, artificially, or otherwise. Granted, such Urban Agriculture doesn&#39;t exactly address the non-Vegan protein side of farming, but then again that&#39;s where in vitro meat come into play. Heck, if future medicine is able to print out organs, why not print out meats? Especially a range of selection from the familiar chicken and beef, to more exotic flesh of endangered or even extinct animals. Though it&#39;ll probably be best to make sure that Human or any other sapient DNA or genetic information equivalent doesn&#39;t find itself in the food supply for, well, obvious reasons....<br /><br />Now that I think of it, if Urban Agriculture does fly off well enough on an ecumenopolis-like settlement, one could potentially see a reversal of trends of urban zones supplying such produce to the suburban equivalents. <br /><br />I also recall something from that <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2tyhaA9GdA" rel="nofollow">Ecopolis show where a Green/Living Roof</a> is able to regulate the temperature of a city by not having black roofs absorbed all that sunlight. It also be used as a kind of carbon sink and rainwater collector wouldn&#39;t hurt as well, pending architecture that can carry something that heavy enough to be considered a park, and considering how big Trantor&#39;s buildings are in terms of kilometers, said roof just might be the equivalent to Central Park or even Golden Gate Park.<br /><br />But, like earlier comments, if the machinery breaks down for whatever reason, and especially those that regulate global temperatures and rainfall. Well, expect a lot of rioting and chaos followed by a lot of people dying on both sides of the riot shield wall.<br /><br />Though I do like the idea that Brett mentioned in his comment about a brand new Galactic Empire (or interstellar equivalent) choosing a lifeless planet as the capital of said government. It&#39;s almost symbolic in a way of how they&#39;re creating a new galactic order or something to that effect.<br /><br />But I gotta be honest, I&#39;ve been more of an O&#39;Neil Cylinder Space Colony guy over an ecumenopolis due to the logistical and infrastructure issues of the latter. As for colonizing Ceres portion that was mentioned earlier, well even though shows like <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RLkaJS1SpM" rel="nofollow">The Expanse</a> have the dwarf planet rotate, I&#39;m more fond of the <a href="http://www.scifiideas.com/science-2/a-solution-for-long-term-living-on-low-gravity-planets/" rel="nofollow">Jordan Carousel</a> concept myself.Sabersonichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11304850400062201271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-38158026047676727502017-03-04T12:29:38.431-08:002017-03-04T12:29:38.431-08:00Both speculations seem entirely likely = that the ...Both speculations seem entirely likely = that the generation that grew up with the Star Wars universe will mainly associate city planets with Coruscant, and that Coruscant - like the idea of a Galactic Empire - was itself inspired by Trantor.<br /><br />Probably there is an entire discussion out there about the source materials that fed into the Star Wars &#39;verse, from Lucas&#39; first conception through streams from Expanded Universe authors, etc.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-87334949828479105612017-02-24T08:16:17.669-08:002017-02-24T08:16:17.669-08:00Regarding Coruscant, I think the geeks of my gener...Regarding Coruscant, I think the geeks of my generation will always retain it as the prototypical city-planet. Star Wars was the first contact many of us had with Sci-Fi, and the Foundation universe is based on an old enough set of tropes and assumptions that it just feels weird to many of us. And the memory of Coruscant will live long after the prequels pass into oblivion: it was an element of the Expanded Universe (for those who aren&#39;t familiar with Star Wars fandom, the licensed books, video games, etc. set in the Star Wars universe) well before the prequels came out. We may still see mention of it in the new movies.<br /><br />I think the chances are very good, however, that Timothy Zahn had read the Foundation trilogy and had Trantor in mind when he first wrote about Coruscant.Jon Brasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07239154010631761288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-87775225183628067712017-02-17T19:30:19.425-08:002017-02-17T19:30:19.425-08:00Absolutely I will keep that in mind!Absolutely I will keep that in mind!Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-6503335648182812362017-02-17T17:12:10.306-08:002017-02-17T17:12:10.306-08:00Cool that you&#39;re giving tours on a battleship,...<i>Cool that you&#39;re giving tours on a battleship, by the way! Iowa, right?</i><br />It is indeed Iowa. It&#39;s a lot of fun. I get to talk about battleships for hours, and people thank me instead of running away. You should have my email. If you get down here, let me know, and I&#39;ll see if I can show you around.Byronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07778896782683765138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-25120556579531809362017-02-17T16:06:39.960-08:002017-02-17T16:06:39.960-08:00Cool that you&#39;re giving tours on a battleship,...Cool that you&#39;re giving tours on a battleship, by the way! Iowa, right?Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-19448019437929827202017-02-17T16:05:45.368-08:002017-02-17T16:05:45.368-08:00Presumably Trantor&#39;s growth into an ecumenopol...Presumably Trantor&#39;s growth into an ecumenopolis came after it became the seat of empire, and in consequence thereof. By the time the government recognized the scope of the problem, there might not be any practical way to reverse it. The growth of an imperial capital is probably related to the vitality of the empire - compare Constantinople under the Paleologi and under the Ottomans. Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-48841514141089719552017-02-13T19:51:45.580-08:002017-02-13T19:51:45.580-08:00He&#39;s back! I do have serious questions about a...He&#39;s back!<br />I do have serious questions about a government setting up shop on a planet which is so vulnerable to siege. Also, good questions about life support. It wouldn&#39;t be possible to have an ecosystem which didn&#39;t produce enough food, if I understand ecology correctly (not guaranteed).<br /><br />WRT ecumenopolises, I expect that you&#39;d have quite a bit of land you couldn&#39;t build on. It&#39;s easier to go around mountains than to go over them. And people are going to want open areas. I recently (well, 18 months ago) moved to LA, and there are times when I desperately need to get out, because I rarely in the normal course of business get to places where the population density is below mid-suburban.<br />I do get to a battleship regularly, though. I think that thread still holds the all-time record here, and I&#39;m a tour guide there now. It&#39;s great. I get to talk about battleships and people thank me.Byronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07778896782683765138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-67410501907453889792017-02-12T11:28:58.598-08:002017-02-12T11:28:58.598-08:00Addresses ... maybe people live on the 117,000 blo...Addresses ... maybe people live on the 117,000 block of Suchandsuch Street. But in practice, no doubt there would be &#39;chunking&#39; into boroughs, townships, districts, or whatever terminology developed. And indeed an &#39;endless urban fabric&#39; could and probably would be highly variable.<br /><br />I love the analogy to the role of male lions in a pride. Staying on good social terms with half a dozen lionesses must be challenging, even for a lion.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-32559287690441841722017-02-04T03:43:57.597-08:002017-02-04T03:43:57.597-08:00To strike a balance between &quot;soft power&quot;...To strike a balance between &quot;soft power&quot; and &quot;blowing stuff up&quot;, one could imagine the Throne World and Emperor occupying the position of a male lion in a pride. 95% of the time, they&#39;re basically a dangerous parasite (using soft powder to get their way), but theoretically, if a big threat comes along, they&#39;re the ones on the front line.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08626720661849104015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-14751435106511612772017-02-02T16:48:44.889-08:002017-02-02T16:48:44.889-08:00Replying to a comment on the next post, but more t...Replying to a comment on the next post, but more thematic here:<br /><br />&quot;On Brett&#39;s point, for most Trantorians the experience of daily life would be living in an &#39;endless&#39; urban fabric.<br /><br />That said, I don&#39;t think it would be especially bewildering or easy to get lost.&quot;<br /><br />Addresses are potentially interesting. Probably can&#39;t just scale an urban grid up to a world, the numbers get too big. Or maybe the postal service does internally, but people will probably want more layers of chunking.<br /><br />&quot;Endless urban fabric&quot; can still be variable, even if fairly urban. Small plot houses, townhouses, high-rises, small neighborhood parks, Central or Golden Gate Parks, zoos and botanical gardens...Damien Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13321329197063620556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-70435435795162822002017-02-02T16:13:49.505-08:002017-02-02T16:13:49.505-08:00I touched on just that possibility in the post lin...I touched on just that possibility in the post linked by this one:<br /><br />http://www.rocketpunk-manifesto.com/2010/03/rapid-transit.html<br /><br />So far as I can tell, to whatever slight degree the physicists have left the door ajar for FTL, nothing says it needs to involve space travel in the usual sense.<br /><br />But what do passengers see out the windows between stations? Do hypertrains have dome cars? Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-80390452997364269042017-01-28T11:04:04.503-08:002017-01-28T11:04:04.503-08:00Rick said &quot;Finally I decided to hell with it;...Rick said &quot;Finally I decided to hell with it; if I was gonna play with trains, I might as well blog about it. So here we all are on Trantor, waiting for the subway! &quot;<br /><br />Well then, you&#39;re going to love the setting I&#39;m working on. Not only do people use trains to get between cities, they use them to travel to other worlds! None of those boring spaceships, just head town to the station, buy a ticket, and jump on a passenger car going to an alien planet.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09617890536562434320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-33395883622712500292017-01-27T12:17:25.368-08:002017-01-27T12:17:25.368-08:00A new post is up, Rapid Transit on Trantor.A new post is up, Rapid Transit on Trantor.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-8742061555462153552017-01-27T12:16:44.265-08:002017-01-27T12:16:44.265-08:00instead of spending years sending a few divisions ...<i>instead of spending years sending a few divisions of ground troops to quell an uppity planetary governor, just cut off the local&#39;s favorite sitcom and let them take care of the problem themselves</i><br /><br />Which applies even if it doesn&#39;t take years to send the troops. Hence the general advantage of soft power, if you can cultivate it.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-58106468513896740132017-01-26T17:04:19.198-08:002017-01-26T17:04:19.198-08:00The Imperial Ministry of Life Support...That and t...The Imperial Ministry of Life Support...That and the Global Transit Authority might need an Imperial eye watching over them. Ansibles or whatever FTL communication system is used do provide for a &quot;cultural empire&quot;, but the question is, how difficult is it to build one? To be able to use the network, do you have to buy the box from the Imperial Communications Corporation? Will the nightly news lead with &quot;...And now for your Imperial, Sector, Planitary, and Local news, sports, and weather&quot; ? If it&#39;s the only source of off-world news, isn&#39;t that a type of soft power? Especially interstellar economic news. Or, if only a few military ships can go FTL without a stargate, you&#39;ll need the pass codes to use them and the Empire won&#39;t sell them cheap. They&#39;d probably change them with frequent regularity, as well. You know, instead of spending years sending a few divisions of ground troops to quell an uppity planetary governor, just cut off the local&#39;s favorite sitcom and let them take care of the problem themselves.<br /><br />Ferrellfro1797https://www.blogger.com/profile/00692480930004754654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-48452396719377792052017-01-25T14:43:47.547-08:002017-01-25T14:43:47.547-08:00You can still have warfare, even if you&#39;re jus...You can still have warfare, even if you&#39;re just transporting in mercs or special operatives rather than large battlefleets (an idea I first read on Atomic Rockets, quoting another source).<br /><br />In fact, the empire can possibly still exercise some hard power in an ansible-but-no-FTL setting, as long as it can maintain a secure link to loyalist forces. It might not be able to send fleets quickly, but it *can* provide the best tactical and scientific minds in the known galaxy to assist the loyalists. Plus, of course, the possibility of drone warfare using remotely piloted weapons platforms through the ansible link.<br /><br />If you can send in assassins, all the better. If the FTL in question is based on wormholes, then the rebellious governor might be able to close the link without having to deal with a rebellion of their own if a fleet tries going through it, but if there nothing seemingly happening and he disrupts trade and cuts families in half based on his fears? Cerereanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14935694167944319731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-66160733041920194092017-01-25T11:04:16.608-08:002017-01-25T11:04:16.608-08:00an interstellar civilisation, even one with FTL tr...<i>an interstellar civilisation, even one with FTL travel, will be based around cultural hegemony and soft power, rather than hard power projection and warships</i><br /><br />This seems entirely likely. The disadvantages, for us, are that soft power is harder to sim, and it falls badly short on blowing stuff up. But since blowing stuff up is popular with the audience, there&#39;s the somewhat ghastly possibility of actual warfare as a component of &#39;soft&#39; power. :-O<br /><br /><br />Since an ecumenopolis needs hab style life support anyway, there is indeed no reason why it needs to originate on a conventionally habitable planet. Or you could imagine a specialized kind of terraforming, aimed at providing urban amenities rather than a traditional ecosystem.<br />Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-42238304298809416332017-01-25T05:35:19.361-08:002017-01-25T05:35:19.361-08:00Say, for example, Luna. Close to the homeworld, bu...Say, for example, Luna. Close to the homeworld, but without as troublesome a gravity well (a space elevator would be feasible), no oceans to worry about, and no biosphere for people to get upset about losing.Cerereanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14935694167944319731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-85601785484801100192017-01-24T22:52:39.619-08:002017-01-24T22:52:39.619-08:00I was thinking about city-worlds today, albeit mor...I was thinking about city-worlds today, albeit more about Coruscant than Trantor. They might actually make more sense if they started out as barren, lifeless planets that were chosen as neutral &quot;capital world&quot; sites by the founding worlds of an interstellar government (like a larger, more extreme version of Washington DC being founded on swampland). The global city-sprawl would be more understandable if the planet&#39;s habitability depended on mechanical systems from the get-go, and if there&#39;s no biosphere being displaced by the expanding city over time. <br /><br />The galaxy would be chock full of potentially terraformable worlds of varying sizes to serve as potential sites for such worlds. There&#39;s imperial precedent as well, such as the founding of Constantinople at a strategic location by Constantine. Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05741738070067590221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-89909702614029285102017-01-20T13:00:13.599-08:002017-01-20T13:00:13.599-08:00Rick, your comment about the tabloid press makes m...Rick, your comment about the tabloid press makes me think that an interstellar civilisation, even one with FTL travel, will be based around cultural hegemony and soft power, rather than hard power projection and warships. The Emperor won&#39;t be able to wield any hard power beyond the throne system, but maybe it will be better that way - keep the Emperor as an impotent figurehead who serves as a unifying symbol, far away where he can&#39;t mess anything up.<br /><br />That&#39;s not to say his words won&#39;t have any influence, though. Even without ansibles, the words of the Pope back in the Solar System will still influence Catholics at Tau Ceti, though given the time delay I imagine nearly all matters will be handled by the System Cardinal.<br /><br />For the rest of human civilisation, Sol will be the physical and social centre of humanity for a very long time to come. Being centrally located, it will have the most up to date information about all settled worlds out of all systems, and will be able to propagate it&#39;s cultural produce across known space the fastest. Being settled the first, it will have by far the largest population, and so will produce the most new stuff for export across the interstellar net. If ansibles are available, the physical location advantage disappears, but the speed of transmission makes the size advantage much bigger.<br /><br />So I don&#39;t think you need FTL *travel* to have an interstellar cultural hegemonic empire, but an ansible would be very helpful. In this case the throneworld will be less New York or Washington DC (finance or governance respectively) and more Los Angeles or Silicon Valley (media or technology). Fewer bureaucrats, more actors - or perhaps more likely CGI animators (though maybe people would watch retro-style films).Cerereanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14935694167944319731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-47138636582434161852017-01-19T09:14:25.959-08:002017-01-19T09:14:25.959-08:00I think that you would need a huge department, wit...<i>I think that you would need a huge department, with at least one AI/massive computer network, just to run the trains on time on Trantor.</i><br /><br />Great minds, and all that. I once wrote a story in which &#39;real&#39; self conscious AI emerged in the computer network running the LA transit system, because it had to understand people in order to anticipate things like attendance at a Dodgers game.<br /><br />For the same reason, and with or without &#39;real&#39; AI, the transit system effectively runs Trantor. Other services are just as vital (water/sewage, etc), but transit is more directly connected to people. Civil disorder? Professionals study logistics - shut down the buses and subways, and no one gets in or out of the affected area unless they walk. (Or get a ride in a police paddy wagon.)<br /><br />But as for the Emperor (and indeed the Empire), no one much cares except the equivalent of the tabloid press. All those agricultural outer worlds can supply their own bread, but they rely entirely on Trantor for decent circuses. In the legends of remote antiquity, Gotham provided a similar service on the Origin World.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-43444286848235423042017-01-18T18:45:10.418-08:002017-01-18T18:45:10.418-08:00Yeah, sometimes things just get away from you! Kin...Yeah, sometimes things just get away from you! Kind of funny to think that a world-city like Trantor would have all kinds of trains; high tech/high speed monorails, hyperloop subways, maybe an old stream engine or two (maybe the Emperor likes playing with trains), more recognizable electric tramways and trollys, and of course, the iconic sliding sidewalks. I think that air travel would be restricted to official only, no civilians especially private aircraft. I think that you would need a huge department, with at least one AI/massive computer network, just to run the trains on time on Trantor. It might be one of the few things the Emperor would be interested in keeping tabs on in person, and not just a daily briefing of a couple of hundred synopsis&#39; dealing with broad issues and status&#39; of provences (groups of star systems). Hell, space elevators are a kind of train (or bus, if you prefer), so there&#39;s that. Maybe that&#39;s what the Imperial kids do; whoever masters the running of the Trantor Rapid Transit Authority gets to be the next Emperor...cuz ruling the galaxy is a piece of cake after that...<br />Ferrellfro1797https://www.blogger.com/profile/00692480930004754654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-28766509412134738672017-01-18T16:07:11.136-08:002017-01-18T16:07:11.136-08:00A repeated hearty welcome to commenters new and re...A repeated hearty welcome to commenters new and returning. But I gotta say a special hello to Ferrell, who has been a regular here since the earliest days of RM.<br /><br />And if you have read down this far, a word about the long hiatus. Happily for me it was not due to health or any other personal &#39;issues&#39;. (The US election did play a part, alas.) <br /><br />But mostly it was due to the psychological equivalent of thread drift: I started playing with stuff, from 1930s flying boats to rapid transit, that likely would be of interest to many readers, but was not obviously and specifically germane to RM as such. <br /><br />Finally I decided to hell with it; if I was gonna play with trains, I might as well blog about it. So here we all are on Trantor, waiting for the subway!Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.com
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