Author Topic: [HAMR] More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)  (Read 39362 times)

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2016, 06:30:09 pm »
Quote
Which presumably makes discussion boards such as this completely pointless

Beyond a certain point, yes.  There comes a point when its all been said and said again.

Since when was that an issue? You may find it tedious, but it's the nature of conversation. It's certainly not a reason to lock a thread. The level of 'lack of excellence' was trivial; no-one threw the smallest teddy out of their cot. I have to say that it looked suspiciously (to me) like it was locked because there was an uncomfortable degree of lack of faith in Steve's liklihood of making the targetted distance. Silencing an opinion won't change it, and risks reactions which were unintended.

I have to say I am livid that it was closed.

Agreed, particularly as it appears fine by management for a former mod on here to tell us all to eff off.

There does appear to be an inference that only cheerleading posts are to be allowed.

Hopefully I will be proved wrong about that by this discussion thread being allowed to continue.



Kim

  • An appetite for the epic, but no real stamina
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2016, 06:32:25 pm »
Can we wait for the moderator(s) to take action before passing judgement on them?  It's only reasonable that they can lock a thread and take time to discuss it before composing and posting (which also takes time) an official ruling on ...whatever.

The action has been taken. The opportunity to give at least a holding explanation is offered to a moderator at the point of locking a thread, but in this case it wasn't taken. Frankly, given the interest in that thread, I regard that as plain rude.

I regard it as the action of someone with other higher-priority commitments, such as a day job, commuting or food to attend to before they can don the asbestos underpants and start dealing with the fall-out.  For all we know, they were halfway through a post when our-favourite-telco cut them off.

It seems unlikely that they're intending to leave it like that for a significant period of time, but this is a web forum, not an IRC channel.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2016, 06:33:58 pm »
I hope you're right, Kim, but the likelihood of significant fallout increases with the delay in explaining the actions.

Kim

  • An appetite for the epic, but no real stamina
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2016, 06:35:07 pm »
I hope you're right, Kim, but the likelihood of significant fallout increases with the delay in explaining the actions.

Perhaps, but if were able to maintain a sufficient standard of excellence, it shouldn't.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2016, 06:37:37 pm »
I hope you're right, Kim, but the likelihood of significant fallout increases with the delay in explaining the actions.

Perhaps, but if were able to maintain a sufficient standard of excellence, it shouldn't.

Are you my mother reincarnated? ;D

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2016, 06:38:11 pm »
Now we've really gone off on a tangent :)

I've been involved in moderating fora (that's forums to you and me) on the internet and company intranets for 20+ years. My strong advice to moderators is never, ever explain the reasons for your actions.

That is all.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2016, 06:43:09 pm »
Now we've really gone off on a tangent :)

I've been involved in moderating fora (that's forums to you and me) on the internet and company intranets for 20+ years. My strong advice to moderators is never, ever explain the reasons for your actions.

That is all.


Yes, we have. And so have I - some of you will know me from PPRuNe. Not explaining actions is fine when you're weeding stuff out or quietly removing trolls, but locking a thread which has a big following needs some explanation when the reason isn't obvious - and, in this case, I don't think it is obvious. As I said above, the level of sub-optimal excellence was trivial. Yes, the thread was going round in circles a bit, but it's a year-long (or, in Steve's case, 20 months) challenge and it will go round in circles.

We'll move on, but my faith in the neutrality of YACF moderation has been severely shaken.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2016, 07:09:08 pm »
I hope you're right, Kim, but the likelihood of significant fallout increases with the delay in explaining the actions.

Don't those that donate to keeping things going deserve to be kept updated?

(Now, am I talking about those that contribute to keeping the yacf servers running or to keep Steve's attempt running?)
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2016, 07:14:14 pm »
A reason has been given. Actually, it was some time ago, but I didn't see it as it appears I was seeing a cached version of the content page as my internet was playing up - so I apologise for accusing the mods of not doing so. However, it is indeed apparently 'lack of excellence' and circularity which have upset the mods. I suspect that, without any other action, this or any other thread discussing the HAM'R will repeat the same crimes - and, indeed, the same posts.

So; Steve - is he doing it right, and should he stop now....?!

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2016, 07:17:48 pm »
I think that's for Steve to decide.
I don't know how amenable he is to anyone's advice.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2016, 07:21:38 pm »
Well. At least we're giving Kurt plenty to read while he's got his feet up  ;D

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2016, 07:31:56 pm »
I think that's for Steve to decide.
I don't know how amenable he is to anyone's advice.

That's part of the point, Helly. We are talking about him (and Bruce, Kurt, Miles, Bill and Kajsa), not to him.

mattc

  • "Hannibal"
  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2016, 07:36:27 pm »
However, it is indeed apparently 'lack of excellence' and circularity which have upset the mods. I suspect that, without any other action, this or any other thread discussing the HAM'R will repeat the same crimes - and, indeed, the same posts.

So; Steve - is he doing it right, and should he stop now....?!
Someone calmer than me made a post about how we might have more constructive debate:

Post by: Greenbank on January 06, 2016, 01:08:09 pm
Quote from: <some idiot> on January 06, 2016, 12:31:11 pm
...
This is a forum. We discuss stuff. I don't see the point of a "virtual letter box" where people just dump their thoughts, if no one is going to read them. And for me, just reading the stuff is pretty dull - what makes forums fun is the discussion.
...

I'm all for the actual discussions but the biggest problem with this place (forums or even the Internet in general, so it's not specific to yacf) is many people simply can't be arsed to read and digest the recent history of a thread before posting in it.

The leads to the same things being brought up again and again (despite them often being discussed thoroughly at some point before) and just causes frustration for the people that are reading, digesting, discussing, arguing, rebutting, etc. Maybe this is what makes it look like a virtual letter box. Novel ideas/thoughts are welcome, but many of the posts aren't novel or don't further a discussion.

Maybe splitting certain bits off into separate threads "Steve's choice of bike", "Transfers and tailwinds", etc would help those with short attention spans.

[EDIT] Mind you, we'd need to move the old (inactive for more than 7 days maybe) daily update threads to a new sub-sub-forum so that the other threads are visible on the first page.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2016, 07:48:15 pm »
Or alternatively a digest of particularly useful posts in a kind of FAQ thread, unavailable for public posting. But, yes, a good point.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2016, 07:49:22 pm »
Now we've really gone off on a tangent :)

I've been involved in moderating fora (that's forums to you and me) on the internet and company intranets for 20+ years. My strong advice to moderators is never, ever explain the reasons for your actions.

That is all.
Same applies to refereeing rugby matches.

I only ever explained one decision on the pitch

In the bar afterwards was open for discussion over a beer
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2016, 09:28:31 pm »
Would it be possible to have one thread to discuss "thoughts on the current record attempt(s)" and another to discuss the rights and wrongs of doing so?

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2016, 09:38:40 pm »
Would it be possible to have one thread to discuss "thoughts on the current record attempt(s)" and another to discuss the rights and wrongs of doing so?


 ;D  ummm

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2016, 09:44:39 pm »
Would it be possible to have one thread to discuss "thoughts on the current record attempt(s)" and another to discuss the rights and wrongs of doing so?

Perhaps we should have threads for "positive thoughts on the current record attempt(s)", "negative thoughts on the current record attempt(s)" and "thoughts on the thoughts on the current record attempt(s) thread".

(click to show/hide)
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2016, 09:44:50 pm »
See 'herding cats'.

Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2016, 09:53:09 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;list=PL4A119B37EDE10A15&amp;t=245" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;list=PL4A119B37EDE10A15&amp;t=245</a>

Hmm.. that didn't work. Try this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc&feature=youtu.be&list=PL4A119B37EDE10A15&t=245
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2016, 03:44:06 am »
It seems that nobody can comment on a person's support team here, other than positively.

Probably more a reflection of the number of times the comments were reiterated though - positive and negative.

"Excellence to each other, to those riding the HAMR and their teams is the protocol my circuits have been programmed to follow." seems to prevent anything other than positive comments.

Not necessarily, you can say someone's analysis is silly without saying they are silly and indeed without saying Steve is silly.

We can wish someone well in an effort even if we're not sure they are likely to be successful. We can still wish them well while pointing out ways that their effort may not be successful. I think management jargon calls that sort of thing "risk analysis".

I'd hope that the team have done fairly extensive risk analysis and continue to do it but presenting a risk analysis pointing to the conclusion that the effort is unlikely to be successful doesn't seem to fail the excellence test as far as I can see.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2016, 03:48:06 am »
Can we wait for the moderator(s) to take action before passing judgement on them?  It's only reasonable that they can lock a thread and take time to discuss it before composing and posting (which also takes time) an official ruling on ...whatever.

It's nice when there's at least a holding post to make it clear the thread was locked intentionally. Even if all they say is "locked pending review" at least we know it wasn't a slip of the mouse somewhere.

I've been on other forums where moderators accidentally locked threads. With the best will in the world, it happens. The post, even if it's just two or three words, just lets people know it was a deliberate moderator intervention.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2016, 04:43:02 am »
Now we've really gone off on a tangent :)

I've been involved in moderating fora (that's forums to you and me) on the internet and company intranets for 20+ years. My strong advice to moderators is never, ever explain the reasons for your actions.

That is all.
Same applies to refereeing rugby matches.

I only ever explained one decision on the pitch

In the bar afterwards was open for discussion over a beer

I always explain every decision when reffing  rugby, usually along the lines of "knock on but no advantage from blue offside here so penalty to red". Explanation is different to discussion.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2016, 07:42:12 am »
Now we've really gone off on a tangent :)

I've been involved in moderating fora (that's forums to you and me) on the internet and company intranets for 20+ years. My strong advice to moderators is never, ever explain the reasons for your actions.

That is all.
Same applies to refereeing rugby matches.

I only ever explained one decision on the pitch

In the bar afterwards was open for discussion over a beer

I always explain every decision when reffing  rugby, usually along the lines of "knock on but no advantage from blue offside here so penalty to red". Explanation is different to discussion.

Agreed, I would say that IS the decision, rather than an explanation.

Rather than "you played the ball in touch [because of ensuing explanation of the law on touch.....]" which then becomes explanation/discussion rather than a decision.  Remember "the referee is the sole judge of fact"
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: More thoughts on the current record attempt(s)
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2016, 08:27:28 am »
So this is a time-constrained rugby match? Forgive me, I hadn't noticed.

 
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