I have following softwares for sale:

NEW ITEMS (never opened):
1. Lucid 3-D, three dimensional spreadsheet:
   with pull-down menus, on-line help, up to 8 pages of notes behind every
   cell for dynamic detail, 3-D capability, compatible with Lotus 1-2-3, etc.
   $15 including shipping (manual, 5.25" disks)

2. Turbo Pascal Express
   with 250 ready-to-run assembly language routines that make Turbo Pascal
   faster, more powerful, and easier to use.
   Book and 2 5.25" disks
   $15 (including shipping)

3. Dr. Halo III
   much more than an icon driven paint program - it's a complete page
   composition and presentation graphics package. Automatic aspect ratio
   correction for WYSIWYG printing. True color or grey scale output and partial    screen prints.
   3 5.25" disks and manual
   $12 (including shipping)

4. Key Form Designer Plus
   software for making professional business forms.
   3.5" disks and manual
   $25 plus shipping OBO

Like-new items (package is opened but not registered):
1. JetFighter II
   Advanced tactical fighter F-23 as well as F-14, F-16, F/A-18, and F-22.
   3.25" disks and manuals
   $30 plus Shipping OBO

2. Nighthwak F-117A Stealth Fighter 2.0
   The definitive simulation of America's radar-elusive jet.
   Sensational sound, nine world's "hot spots": Cuba, North Korea, the Kuwaiti T   Theatre of operations, central Europe, the North Cape, Libya, the persian Gul   f, Vietnam and the Middle East. Awesome missions to challenge you.
   5.25" disks and manual
   $35 plus shipping OBO

3. Grammatik IV - $20 plus shipping

4. Quattro Pro 1.0 - make an offer

5. GEM chart, graphics, word, publisher, ... V.3.0 - make an offer.


Does anyone know of a program or utility that will
enable the Mac to read Unix (i.e. NeXT) 3.5 in. disks?


Calm down.  It is not as if I tweaked the fount of the flame wars
or anything (guns, anything to do with them).


Brad Yearwood posts a long response to the issue of registering a
phone-clipper relationship.

It doesn't wash.

Recall that law enforcement gets a court order to tap a suspect's phone
calls. They do what they do now--figure out which lines to tap. They then
record the stuff. If it's Clipper, they read the law enforcement block,
extract the serial number, and get the keys using the court order.

No new difficulties (such as using someone else's phone instrument or phone
line) are introduced that wouldn't have existed absent clipper. If the
crooks were going to use a pay phone (say), they could have done so without
clipper. If the government figures out they're so doing, they listen in, and
if it's a clipper conversation they get the serial number and then the keys.

If the crooks use an innocent person's clipper phone on the tapped line
there's no problem. The Feds don't care whose phone instrument is used, just
that the conversation is by the suspect on the tapped line. They get the
serial number, get the keys, and they are in business.

No clipper chip to person association is ever needed.

David


One of our users is having an unusual problem.  If she does an Alt/Tab to
a full-screen DOS program, when she goes back to Windows her desktop fonts
have changed.  If she goes back to a full-screen DOS program and then goes
back to Windows, the font has changed back to its default font.  It's not
a major problem (everything works and the font is legible), but it is
annoying.  Does anyone have any idea why this happens.  By the way, she
has a DEC 486D2LP machine.


I too think that Joseph has had a GREAT year and should be considered for the
Vezina.  I think Barrasso and Joseph should be the two strongest candidates
this year.  I don't believe ALL of the hype that Roy, Belfour and now Potvin
receive for their goaltending.  I do think that they are great in the nets,
but I would rather have Curtis, Tommy or Fuhr in the nets during this years
playoffs.  The big name tenders always seem to have a strong defense in front
of them and the goaltenders get the most credit.  I would rather face 25 shots
a game, than have to rely on Joseph saving 35, but if the goalie is going to
face 35 shots, I would rather have Joseph or Barrasso facing them.

-Jay

ps Go Quebec!!!  And I know that McLean and several others should be mentioned
as candidates for this years Vezina, but I am partial to Joseph and Barrasso
this season.


I've already written a 5000 char commentary (from my MCI MAIL account, so I
can't be accused of being a "hacker".)


can anybody guess this from the title?

Not me, I thought that a clash between Israelis and Arabs resulted
in four deaths on one side and two on the other.

How about being illegally settled there?
I am not sure about the signals the Israelis are sending, one day
they are willing to accept a Jordan/West Bank federation, the other
they do not recognize the west bank as occupied territory (neither
did the U.S, "the honest brocker")
(details of the killings omitted, PLO,Hamas graffiti both claim responsability)

Now don't tell me that this could not be an Israeli spy.
We will know later.

			*********************************
Now the UPI shows its ugly face once and for all.
USUALLY?
It happened once this year, once last year. out of possibly thousands
or more. Man how low can you get.


Surprise, surprise. I sure didn't lose any sleep over it, and I live there.

Suppose someone said that he was sure that he would return from death,
in glory and power, flying in the clouds with the host of heaven,soon, within
the lifetimes of those then standing with him - and 2000 years went by without
any such event. [He also asserted, so they say, himself to be God.]

2 questions:

	1) Is that one of those "false prophecies" you were talking about?
	2) Does that make the speaker a false prophet?

Uhh,  Has it occurred to you that there is no way to know any of these
things, for certain, "without the tiniest shadow of a doubt"? That people
who thought they did have also been deluded?

Those of us who believe in actually being able to _CHECK_ our opinions
have an out - we can check against some external reality. Those who
assert that beliefs entertained without evidence, or even despite evidence
have a special virtue (ie. "faith") are out of luck -- and this is the
result.

You want to demonstrate Christian honesty? Great.
Start with the prophecy above - what can we conclude about the speaker?


Another factor against bringing the HST back to Earth is risk of contamination.


Oh are we Jill?  Let me tell you a story then...

One evening not long in this country a man, a parolee, a convicted KNOWN
violent crimminal lead police on high speed chase after breaking another law.
He decided that police had no right to do their jobs and enforce the law
and assualted two of while attempting to resist arrest.  When police use
metal sticks to force him into submission we heard all the reason why certain
people in this country have and excuse when they refuse to obey the law,
how this was a perfect example of police oppression, how all the police
had to do was behave a certain way and all would have been finei, how nothing
the victim did could have possibly warranted the response - some blows with
a few sticks - he got from the authorities.

Funny, how when it's Bloodbath Billy or his hitwench calling the shots,
a group of people who were bothering no one, were not know to have broken
any law, who asked only that they be left alone to practice their religion
as they fit, how it is now that the government is justified in assualting
those people with 100 heavily armed commandos simply because the gun
grabbers in DC thought these people had more guns thay they thought they
should have.  Now when it's the Clinton administration that has the blood
of dozens on its hand AAAALL of a sudden it's the people who refused to
have their civil rights violated, it's their fault, those evil fanatics
provoked it...

How is it in the mind of the liberal Democrat-Clinton supporter that a
crimminal puke, scum bag, piece of garbage like Rodney King could not have
possibly provoked the beating he got, but this bunch of wierdos could cause
a fifty one day stand off that ended with the burning deaths of all of them
and their children, all by themselves with no help from the the police.
And to here people say they deserved what they got, to hear Clinton say
the blame rest solely with Koresch, what a cowardly piece of work that
man has shown, again, himself to be.

WE'RE blaming the right people.  It is you and others that defend ANY of the
actions of the BATF, FBI or Justice Department in this matter, that with
each word prove again and again the depth of the hypocrisy, the double
standard that people like the Clintons would hold certain Americans to.
While at the same time allowing others to do as they please with only
excuses to offer their victims.  It's all to clear these days, from the
comments of the "president" and the rationalizations of his supporters
in these groups, that in a liberal Democratic vision of America only
a certain select few people can expect to have civil rights enforced,
and this administration intends to enforce laws, apply the Constitution
and obey the laws only when it suits them to do so.

The Rooster

				WARNING!

                   By order of Heir Clinton and for your own
                personal safety: Remember to maintain membership
                 in ONLY BATF approved religious organizations.
	 	   BATF approved religious services.


That's what MCI Mail is for!  (CompuServe also has "CongressGrams" (TM).)

This is not intended as an advertisement; that really is what MCI Mail WAS
intended for (according to their ads).


Cost is lower than OEM replacements and they weigh less. Also, in most
instances you do not have to rejet the carburetors to get a little more
performance. I replaced my OEM canister with an Ontario systems slip on.
The mid-range performance is better but I also notice a slight stumble at
2-3K rpm. After talking to Kaz Yoshima, the developer and manufacturer of
the slip on, he thinks I might need larger pilot, idle, jets. Was not suppose
to but maybe where I live makes a difference. Altitude, barometric pressure...
Anyway, besides that minor glitch, I like the slip on performance and the sound,
which is louder than stock, but not loud enough to annoy folks. The Ontario
slip on use some sort of sound baffling technique to reduce the sound at full
throttle.

Just remember, every bike is a tuned system. When you change the intake or
exhaust characteristics beyond the allowable delta of the manufacturer, you may
have to change other areas to compensate. Like a complete change of the exhaust
system, header and muffler, changes the exhaust characteristic to the point
which re-jetting is required to compensate for the new engine breathing/pumping
profile.

Talk with the folks who make the slip on you intend to use and ask them if
they have used it on your particular bike. Check with people who have the
system also to see what they think about there slip on.

Also, as a last data point, in Sport Rider's first issue, did a review on a
group of header and exhaust systems for the CBR600F2. They also included, as a
side bar, the Ontario slip on, the Dyno showed an increase from stock of 5bhp at
the rear wheel, 85 verses 91.

Buyer beware, of outrageous claimed increases in horse power! It may have been
true in the past, but not today!


Hi, I am trying to compile a chart for Windows and DOS performance
of local bus video card .  So if you have a DX2-66V and one
of the local bus video cards below, please email me your Winbench
3.11 and 3dbench(obtainable in ftp.wustl.edu, pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS)
scores.   Please give me Winmark score at 800x600x256 and
800x600x64K.  I will post the chart if enough response if received.

Tseng ET-4000/W32 VLB
CL 5426 VLB
S3 805/928 based local bus card.
ATI Ultra Pro VLB
Orchid Celsius 9000 VLB
AGX based VLB cards(do they exist?)
Matox MGA based video cards


As quoted from <nate.1504.735838830@psygate.psych.indiana.edu> by nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle):

What laws did they circumvent?  Being "frightening" isn't a crime.  Some people
are afraid of young Black males.  That doesn't make the mere status of being a
young Black male a crime.

The BATF itself admitted leading off by throwing handgrenades.  There is no
evidence that they properly identified themselves as law enforcement
personnel.  Under those circumstances, other persons have been found to be
acting within their legal rights to exercise self defense against unidentified
armed intruders.

The charges are irrlevant anyway, since the BATF has absolutely no jurisdiction
in such matters anyway.  Of course that hasn't stopped them from making other
such spurious charges, such as the existence of mythical "meth labs".  Of
course they whole "cult" thing indicates the level of contempt that they have
for the 1st amendment.

That armed resistance, at least initially, may well have been LEGAL.


Believe Bugatti's coming(has) out  one.  Something like 4 turbos
and mucho macho HP.  One cool price too, as i heard.  At any rate,
the point is, i'm pretty sure there is, indeed, one in production...
tho rather limited..


I think it was a typo for "Karelian photography", which is the
practice of taking pictures of either Finns or Russians, depending
on whom one asks.


Or perhaps you write a freely available, GPLed unix for commonly
available computer platforms (i386/i486 machines) and become a catalyst
for a major netwide project which produces a better unix-like os than
many commercial counterparts (see comp.os.linux for details).  Or maybe
you found a Legue for Programming Freedom to fight restrictive litigation
and software patenting practices, thereby protecting the creative freedom
so vital to continuing progress in our field.  Or maybe you start up
a gnu project, and produce by far and away the best c/c++ compiler
for unix there is, not to mention other valuable utilities.

Some hackers make significant contributions without selling out their
ideals.  As for Bill Gates, after pawning of grossly inferior software
onto the PC market for ten years, if he ever was a hacker, he deserves
to have his name eradicated from the Annals of Computer Hackery.

As for me, I like running linux+X+countless other packages, without
paying a dime.  On the other hand, I have no problem purchasing motif
or other good software, as long as Microsoft hasn't fouled it with their
inept input.

My 2 cents worth, flames will be patiently ignored. :-)

Jean.
--
Jean Liddle
Computer Science, Illinois State University
e-mail:  jliddle@ilstu.edu


...
...
...

	"Why don't you kill him Beav"

	"Well...I dunnow Eddie...I might get in trouble"

	"Here's a gun Beav, shoot him, Beav"

	"Well...ok Eddie"

BLAM BLAM


Last night I tried to reinstall the utilities from the Windows 3.1 Resource
Kit disk. The setup program appeared to run perfectly normally, but when it
had finished, there was no Program Group created. Now, I know I've done
this before successfully, and creating a group myself didn't exactly tax
me, but I'm curious as to what might be going on. I can only assume that
something left over from the last time I had it installed is getting in
the way, but I can't figure out what. Any clues, anyone?
--


: :
: :         Hello,

: :         Just one quick question:
: :         My father has had a back problem for a long time and doctors
: :         have diagnosed an operation is needed. Since he lives down in
: :         Mexico, he wants to know if there is a hospital anywhere in
: :         the United States particulary famous for this kind of surgery,
: :         kind of like Houston has a reputation for excellent doctors
: :         in eye surgery. Any additional info or pointers will be
: :         appreciated a whole lot!...

: There is one hospital that is here in New York City that is famous for its
: orthopedists, namely the Hospital for Special Surgery. They are located on
: the upper east side of manhattan. If you want their address and phone let
: me know, i'll get them, i dont know them off hand.

for those who are interested the hospitals i was referring to are:

The Hospital for Special Surgery
535 East 70th Street
New York, NY 10021
212-606-1555 (Physician Referral Service & info)

The Hospital for Joint Diseases
301 East 17th Street
New York, NY 10003
212-598-7600


Yes, weightlessness does feel like falling.  It may feel strange at first,
but the body does adjust.  The feeling is not too different from that
of sky diving.


What does Saturday Night Live have to do with anything? When they make fun
of someone they do it with a little bit of creativity and talent. You, on the
other hand, have a complete lack of creativity, talent, and verbal mechanics.
And if you think that SNL is culture, then it just shows where your intellectual
level is.

Granted.

Only in part. Let's not forget that Nixon personally authorized the
break-in of Ellsberg's psychiatrist.

Tell that to the House. That WAS the charge. Or are you going to challenge
me on that as well? Subverting the constitutional rights of citizens has
nothing to do with covering-up for Watergate. You have been proved wrong,
again. But I don't expect you to believe this since your arrogance has
replaced your reason.

Granted.
Wrong again. You forgot about Ellsberg.

This would be funny, if it weren't so sad that you actually believe this.
In his "loyalty" he allowed the people who worked for him to take the
rap, while he idly sat by and let it happen. If he REALLY was loyal to
the people who worked for them, he would have pardoned them before he
resigned.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Death to all modifiers, he declared one day, and out of       Garrett Johnson
 every letter that passed through his hands went every      Garrett@Ingres.com
 adverb and adjective. The next day he made war on articles.
 The following day he blacked out everything in the letters
 but "a", "an", and "the".  - Joseph Heller's Catch-22


Your list of Jewish ballplayers includes Levi Samuel Meyerle (son of
Jacob and Margaret Meyerle). Although that sounds like a Jewish name,
Meyerle's "surviving relatives" say he wasn't Jewish, according to
"Nineteenth Century Stars," published by SABR in 1989. Incidentally,
"Long Levi" (he was 6-foot-1) batted .492 in the first season of the
National Association, the first pro league. Needless to say, he hasn't
been topped yet. (Of course, the NA is not considered a "major" league
by officialdom.) Over five seasons, Meyerle hit .368 in the NA. He also
played for the first three seasons of the NL, hitting .329.

--
--------------------------
Phil Brown                |
aka pb6755@csc.albany.edu |


[stuff deleted]

I think this goes along with a comment you made in an earlier post -
namely, Quinn taking advantage of a major league bonehead for a GM
in St. Louis.  This trade was an absolutely stupid trade for St. Louis,
and it was not the only stupid trade that this guy made.  We can give
Quinn credit for being an opportunist here.

[stuff about other trades deleted]

How do you figure?  Both Vancouver and Detroit did the same thing last year:
They both won their division, they had close to the same number of points,
they both went down 3-1 in the first round of the playoffs before finally
escaping in 7 games, and they both got knocked out in the second round by
teams they should have been able to beat, with less talent.  (Specifically,
if I remember correctly, third place teams).  How does this make Vancouver
more improved?  Further, if I'm not mistaken, the Wings had more points than
Vancouver at the end of this season (albeit not many).


I have a Always IN-2000 SCSI card for sale  w/manuals, software,
and cables.  Make your best offer on this...


I'd get the IIci. It's more expandable, just as fast, and preserves the
option to run System 6.

David Gutierrez
drg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu


by the way ms. olmstead dna is not degraded in the stomach nor
under pH of 2.  its degraded in the duodenum under approx.
neutral pH by DNAase enzymes secreted by the pancreas.  my
point:  check your facts before yelling at other people for not
doing so.  just a friendly suggestion.


I was skimming through a few gophers and bumped into one at NIH
   with a database that included images in .GIF format.  While I have
   not yet worked out the kinks of getting the gopher client to call
   an X viewer, I figure that the majority of the users here are not
   in an X11 environment - instead using DOS and MS-Kermit.

      With Kermit supporting Tek4010 emulation for graphics display,
   does anyone know of a package that would allow a Tek to display a
   .GIF image?  It would be of more use to the local population to
   plug something of this sort in as the 'picture' command instead of
   XView or XLoadImage ...


I've had neither a baby nor a kidney stone, but according to my aunt,
who has had plenty of both, a kidney stone is worse.


When attempting to connect to an SGI Indigo from a PC clone using
a commercial X windows emulation package, the X package hangs in
a pre-login X screen mode.  The login box won't display.  Using
the package in 'telnet' mode, I can logon to the SGI, and run any
none graphic type things.  On the PC I get an error:
"Read error 0 on socket 1"  (raw socket error)

On the SGI, in xdm-errors:
I get a termination error when I kill the stalled screen on the PC

On the SGI, in SYSLOG:
<date><time><SGI> xdm[#]:Hung in XOpenDisplay(<remote>:0, aborting
  "                  "  :server open failed for <remote>:0, giving up

I have all access control disabled (I believe, SYSLOG message confirms
this when I login on the SGI).  I believe I have the SGI set up properly
as described in the X ADm. book by O'Rielly....

The X emul package tech support hasn't been able to solve the problem.

So what I'm looking for is some suggestions on where to look for problems,
and possible tests to run to narrow down the questions.
Thanks


Peter Nelson posted a very eloquent response to this point in
talk.politics.misc, so I need not consume more bandwidth here.

What I meant, if it was not clear, was the intersection set of liberal
and libertarian philosophies of "natural rights" and how the government
(and Constitutional interpretation in particular) fits into that
philosophy.  This philosophy engages in the very serious practical
error of endowing the nine lawyers on the Supreme Court with an almost
totalitarian authority, completely outside of the consent or consensus
of The People.  This is why Supreme Court nominations are such amazing
political fist-fights these days, because He who Controls the Court
Rules the Country.  The people on the Court may well be trying to do
the best job they can, but they are at best a benevolent oligarch, even
if you approve of every Supreme Court decision ever.  Eventually, an
oligarch will arise that will decimate that which you hold dear.  Try
Supreme Court cases by Jury, and the problem would be mitigated a great
deal.

Those who would create broad, non-enumerated government powers at any
level (as in European Parlamentary Democracies and the current de-facto
standard in the U.S.) have essentially engaged in the same fundamental
mistake, except that it is some different body that has the totalitarian,
virtually unchecked (except by plurality election, death, or retirement),
government power.

This is like asking why the wind blows, unless you can prove that
the fact of your engaging in certain activities has absolutely no
effect whatsoever on any other human being who has not consented to
your engagement in those activities.  Very few human activities indeed
fit into this category.

Even for those few that do, who would you empower to make the judgement
of what is and is not a fully autonomous activity?  Who defines "picking
my pocket" and "defrauding"?  Are economic assets a person's only assets,
or are peace of mind, stability, confidence in a child's emotional
environment, security, and many other things not also a part of a person's
assets?  What gives you the right to create a moral environment that a
parent strongly objects to?  What gives you the right to create an
environment of social unrest and instability?  If you say that what you
do does not have those effects, by what authority do you say that?  Who
is empowered to make these value judgements?

If the Federal Constitution explicitly prohibited you from doing so, the
federal government would prevent you from doing so.  If it did not, and
you could muster enough local support to pass an amendment to the local
Constitution (by, say, a 3/4 majority) empowering the local government
to do so, then I would have to vote with my feet and move to a neighborhood
more friendly to my own system of values.  This is not an ideal situation,
but it is far better than the mess we are mired in right now.

When you define "rights" very broadly, there is no practical choice about
whether people will or will not infringe upon your rights since these
"rights" overlap.  Even when rights are defined very narrowly, the government
has been empowered to prevent others from infringing on your rights.  The
fundamental question is, by whose authority is that power created.  If you
support the current situation with a "natural rights" Supreme Court (rather
than an "original understanding" Supreme Court or, even better, Supreme
Court by Jury), you are consenting to having nine lawyers in Washington,
D.C. create those powers out of the air.  In my "Fractal Federalism" scenario,
it is a broad consensus of The People (i.e. the amendment process) that
creates those powers.

No, I mean the federal government that comes trucking in with guns to
tell the locals how to run their neighborhood.  Waco, TX is a nice example.

If you create a community where public masturbation is permitted in the
cause of "personal autonomy", have you done anything different?  What
precisely are these autonomous activities you are referring to?  If you
list them, perhaps we can get enough people to agree that they are truly
autonomous and pass a constitutional amendment protecting them.

The Koresh Incident appears to be a horrendous abuse of government power,
power possibly illegitimately obtained through a means I would abolish.
The constitutionality of "no-knock" warrants seems very dubious to me, not
to mention the mere existence of BATF and the government's propensity to
ignore the word "infringe" in the Second Amendment.  This power is upheld
by the same body, with its incredible concentration of power in the hands
of nine people, that has upheld much so-called "Civil Rights" (read- affirmative
action) legislation despite the Fourteenth Amendment.

Money is certainly not the only asset I have in this world.  If it were,
this would be a bleak existence indeed.

Matt Freivald

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
LiBORGalism:
             THINKING IS IRRELEVANT. INTEGRITY IS IRRELEVANT.
          FREE SPEECH IS IRRELEVANT. PRIVATE PROPERTY IS IRRELEVANT.
                 PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS IRRELEVANT.
                     CONSERVATIVISM IS FUTILE.
                      YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
THESE ARE MY OPINIONS ONLY AND NOT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


For sale, 1988 Toyota Corolla FX, AM/FM radio, nothing else.
Low mileage - 28,000.  (I ride my bike to work.)

Dark Blue. Good condition. ONLY $3800.

I am leaving the country for a year and must sell this
great city car.

CALL RENEE FECTEAU - (408) 924-5171 leave message.


Hi, Everyone.
I am  currently planning to write a program that traverses the
image of handwritten characters in ascii format and produces
circle and line representation of handwritten characters.
Did anybody out there has any experiences on this problem?
If you have would you post or e-mail to please
kevin

Does anyone has program that traverse the digital image and produces
circle and line
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KEVIN SHIN   kshin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com


We need following data for human aorta:

  Tear and shear stress for aorta.
  A plot of the aortic cross-sectional area.
  Stroke-volume at the aortic root.
  Approximate distribution of blood through the major arterial
      branches of the aorta.
  Flow velocity of blood in aorta.

We have various values for flow velocity, If you have any data remember to
give us the references too include in our report


Thank you Andrew.  Not only for the firm rebuttal, but for understanding the
difference between communism and socialism (even though this is off topic).
Why do people just not understand that just because all those pretty songs about
the land of the free and so on sound nice, that they may not be true?
Take off those rose colored glasses and get a clue (to use two of the better
cliches around)
thanks you again
jamie


Fine then.  Cut them off with pen and paper, and not the sword.


Sure there are quacks. There are quacks who don't treat and quacks who
treat. One's that refuse to diagnose and ones that diagnose improperly.
There are lucky quacks and unlucky quacks. Smart quacks and dumb ones.

There are people ahead of their time, with unprobable or unproven theories
and rationals. There are ill-reasoned, absurd, theorists.

Sometimes it's hard to tell who's who.

Reading a book of ancient jokes it seems that doctors called other doctors
quacks in Babylon.

Arguments abound when there aren't any firm answers. Plenty of illnesses
aren't, or can't, be diagnosed or treated. But I think it's better to argue
against the theory, as was originally done with postings on candida a month
or so ago. Stating the facts usually works better than simply asserting an
opinion about someone's competency. And you can't convince everybody.

Sometimes a correct diagnosis
takes years for people: they don't run into a doctor who recognizes the
disease, they haven't developed something recognizable yet, or they have
something that no one is going to recognize, because it hasn't been
described yet. Sometimes they get a cure, sometimes the illness wears out,
sometimes they stumble on an improper diagnosis with the right treatment,
sometimes they find it's incurable.

There is no profit in a patient accepting a hopeless attitude about an
illness. Unless it's a rock solid diagnosis of terminal disease it's is
more like ly that a person will find a cure if they keep looking.


Who is Ram Das?

According to his brochures, he is a.k.a. Richard Alpert, PhD, and is
somehow associated with the:

  Seva Foundation
  8 N. San Pedro Road
  San Rafael, CA  94903

and the:
  Hanuman Foundation
  524 San Anselmo Ave #203
  San Anselmo, CA  94960

He speaks publically on such topics as "Consciousness & Current
Events," and has written some books and recorded some tapes on
similar subjects.

Why do I care?  My wife wants to go to one of his lectures.  When
I asked why, she said Ram Das was "the greatest spiritual leader
of our time!"

Several years ago my wife got involved with a religious cult, and
we went through 9 months of hell that almost ended our marriage
before she quit.  Let's just say I'm concerned about this Ram Das
and her interest, especially so with the recent religious cult
events from Texas.  I need information - solid and real - so I
know what I'm dealing with.

If you have any information about Ram Das or the organizations
shown above, I would be very interested in your correspondence.
Please reply via e-mail to me at:  scott%hpsdde@SDD.HP.COM

Thank you!

  -- Scott Roleson


I would like to find a Windows 3.x driver for a video board that is
based on the Chips & Technologies chipset.  The actual board is a
Scorpion Framegrabber made by Univision.  It is based on the C&T
chipset, but only barely supports the graphics mode.  I am hoping that
any C&T driver could be used in the 640x480x256 mode.

Thanks.


	Well tell us about your pool table!

-=- Andy -=-


For those who didn't figure it out, the below message was a reply to another
in sci.crypt, for which the poster put t.p.g. in the Followup-To line. I
didn't notice that. Apologies to those who were confused.

The substance makes little sense unless one reads the prior messages.

However, I don't wish to enter into this discussion here, as it will be yet
another rehearsal of a long-tired set of arguments. Suffice it to say that I
disagree both with the interpretation of "well-regulated" in the Second
Amendment offered by gun lovers, and what I think to be their distortion of
the same phrase in the associated Federalist papers. My Webster and my
reading of the language convinces me that the word meant both under control,
and disciplined, and not 'of good marksmanship'. I think the latter a
special interest pleading. No one has yet shown a contemporateous reference
in which "well regulated" unambiguously meant 'of good marksmanship', and
not under control/disciplined, etc.

Thus I continue to believe the Second Amendment is a militia clause and not
an 'arming everyone' clause. Others are welcome to disagree (as I know many
do) and little would be served by rehashing this topic in this particular
forum.

To avoid flames, or unproductive rehashings, I note that I've come in here
to post this one message, just to clarify the one below. I'm now outta here
again though I'm available via e-mail.

David


The battery goes dead primarily becaust the floor is cold.  The temperature
combined with self-discharge promotes sulfation which ruins the plates of
the battery.  I strongly suspect that the only reason the battery doesn't
go dead as quickly on a dirt surface is because cement tends to be quite
cooler.


It's not scriptural, but comes from the patristic age, I think:
something about "amare errantem, interficere errorem", which sounds
more like "love the errant, slay the error".  No doubt someone else
will know in particular who minted the phrase.  If I had to guess, I'd
blame :-)  St Augustine, who seems to have had a gift for aphorism.


The Attorney General publishes the number of court-ordered taps each year.
It isn't enough (around a thousand) for the average non-crook, non-spy to
worry about. In fact, considering any reasonable guess about the number of
big-time crooks and spies around, it may not be enough even for most crooks
and spies to worry about.

There's no reason to believe that it will go up with Clipper, since the
number of taps now includes many targets too stupid to use encryption (based
on the playbacks we've heard in court cases).

David


[Note the "Followup-To" redirect(s) to alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc.]

(Timothy J Brent) said in response to P.VASILION:

(1) You have no evidence that David Koresh or his followers were
"packing" that heavy weaponry with any intent to use for other that
recreational and self-defense purposes.

(2) Your statement that "the public also has rights" is correct only is
parsed as "the individuals who comprise the public also have rights."
There is no separate rights-bearing entity known as "the public".

(3) Since the "rights of the public" of which you spoke are in fact only
rights of individuals, the statement that the rights of the public
should be placed above the rights of the individual has no meaning.

(4) You have artificially created an illusionary conflict of
individuals' rights when you speak of "my right to rape your daughter."
No person has the right to rape another person, therefore there is no
conflict.

(5) How do you define "society?"  Do you hold that this "society" is a
rights-bearing entity which is separate from any individual people?  How
do you define a "threat to society?"  To what extent do you believe that
a person loses his rights when he is declared (by whom?) to be such a
threat?


One of the things going for the DX2-66 (over the 50) is that it's
clock speed complies with the VESA local bus spec.

Lance Hartmann (lance%hartmann.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com)
               Yes, that IS a '%' (percent sign) in my network address.


   >They used a tank to knock a hole in the wall, and they released
   >non-toxic, non-flammable tear gas into the building.

       Non-toxic tear gas?!?  Do you know what tear gas is?

       I do: once upon a time I happened to be in a room when someone threw
       a tear-gas grenade in (that was supposed to be a joke:).  The sensation
       was incredible: I felt my eyes and nostrils were being torn apart.
       I remember us - a bunch of young men in our early 20's - running out
       like a herd of wild animals, knocking down the door and jumping
       out of the windows (thank G-d we were on the first floor).

       I can't imagine this kind of stuff being used against children.

For them, the worst effect might not be the physical effects so much
as the psychological effect of being incapacitated without fully
understanding the cause.  Many years ago, I was accidentally exposed
to a tiny dose of tear gas.  (It was in Athens, on the street leading
to the American Embassy; there'd been a march that had been broken up
with tear-gas; I must have stumbled into a remaining patch of gas the
next day.)  Aside from the tears, feeling sick to my stomach, etc.,
the really horrible psychological effect was that of suddenly falling
to pieces and not knowing why it had happened---I was horrified and
wondered what disease or other health problem I had.  (I didn't find
out about the march and the tear-gas till hours later.)  I can imagine
how horribly disorienting this might be to very young children:
suddenly crying uncontrollably and feeling sick, weak, and out of
control of your body---and not knowing the cause.

``This gives us a chance to try the Gas of Peace.''  Yeah, right.


I'd like to field this one, if I may.  Although I am a believer in and follower
of Christ, my experiences with religion haven't been all that positive.  In
fact, there was one point in my life when, for about three days, I simply
_couldn't_ believe in the existence of God.  Anyway, when I look back upon the
troubles I've had, they seem to fall into two categories -- impulses to
unbelief that resulted from logical contradictions, and impulses to unbelief
that resulted from frustration with God.

The first category doesn't occur to me much anymore, as I have worked through
most of the arguments for the non-existence of God.  But way back when, these
would cause me some problems, and I would have to struggle with my faith to
continue to believe.  I can see where others less stubborn than I (and I do
mean stubborn.  Stubborness has often been the only thing standing between
me an atheism from time to time) would fail.

The second category arises out of some long-term personal difficulties and
the struggle to live my life as God would have me live it WITHOUT living my
life as others would tell me how God would have me live it.  A good example of
this is my struggle with the more radical Christians I meet.  I am not, nor
have I ever been, "on fire for Chirst," and I don't think I ever want to be.
Nevertheless, I am not "lukewarm" about my faith, so I don't really
fit in with the mainstream either.  Quite naturally, I feel a lot of anxiety
about my dislocation within Christian society, and it can lead to a lot of
internal tension, when I want to do what I _know_ is right,
but when another part of me believes that what I want to do is wrong because
all the other Christians think so to.  Quite naturally, this tension has a
destructive effect on my relationship with God, and during all of this internal
strife, there's atheism sitting there like the promised land -- no rules, no
responsibilities, no need to live up to anyone's expectations but my own.
Complete freedom.  Of course, it's all an illusion, but nevertheless, it's a
very appealing illusion, especially when the so-called "people of God" are
behaving like total twits.  I can easily understand why someone would go
that route, and would be hostile to ever coming back.

IMHO, many of the former-Christians-turned-atheists-who-are-now-actively-
hostile-to-Christianity are so because their experience with Christ and God
wasn't a very peaceful one, but one of mind-control and "shut-up-and-do-what-
you're-told-because-we-know-what's-best-for-you-because-it's-God's-will-and-
you're-to-young-to-know-what-God's-will-is-yet" courtesy of some of Christ's
more overzealous followers.

A final reason why people become atheists is because Christians do not have a
very good reputation right now.  One of the things that attracted people to
Christianity in the ancient days was the love that Christians obviously had
for one another and the world around them.  Unlike the rest of the world,
Christian communities actively cared for their poor, and the Christian rich
did not trod on the backs of their poorer brothers, but bent down to help
them.  Christians were known for living exemplary lives, even if they were
thought to be traitors to the state because they wouldn't sacrifice to the
emporer.  Nowadays, courtesy of the media and some Christian leaders who lost
Christ on their way to power, people see Christians as sexually-repressed
hippocritical busibodies who want to remake society into a facist version of
their own moral view.

There are a lot more reasons why people become atheists, but I don't have time
to go into them right now.


I have a nice VXC Moniterm 19 in B/W monitor, formerly used on an ATARI ST.
I think such monitors are / have been used on macs.
Can someone tell me what mac can use it, what card I should get to use it, etc..
This monitor also has a label on the front saying Viking 2/90, and has a DB9
connector.


OK, I heard a lot of talk about the NSA's infamous control over encryption
export through the ITAR.  Here's a question.  Say I develop this great new
encryption system, and I want to sell my software worldwide.  The thought
police then come in and say "This algorithm is a threat to national security.
You will not be permitted to export it."  At this point, what kind of trouble
could I get into if I ignored the ITAR and sold my program to international
customers anyway?

Doug Holland


This is maybe not a Pet Peeve, but definitely a Playmate Peeve:

Does this make anyone's Skeptic Alarm (tm) go off?  No offense, Bill, I
don't mean to say that you're not being straight, but I wonder how you
know about this?  Have you actually every used your secret method to break
all the different kinds of bike locks?  Or are you taking someone's word
for it?

The fact is, it is unlikely that someone reading anything here is going to
go into a successful bike-stealing business because they read anything in
rec.motorcycles.  So please tell us what you are talking about.  We can't
even protect against an assault, or discuss methods, if you don't come out
with it.

See, I have heard the ones about the pipes, and the liquid nitrogen, and the
cordless Dremel tools, and a bunch of other ones.  The most plausable method
(I am not a bike thief, so I really don't know for certain) is just to put
a rod through each wheel, and use four guys to just lift the bike into a
truck.  This works because most people don't lock their bikes TO anything.
Since that method is so childishly easy, I figure a nice, visible chain or
cable locking the bike to something is likely to make a lazy thief go on
to the next bike.

(Hey, finally an advantage to the weight and high CG of the Concours!  :-)

What tactic are you referring to?  If we don't know what you are talking about,
we can't very well guard against it, can we?

For my money (literally) I rely on a combination of a motion-detector alarm
with pager when I'm out of earshot of the bike in a questionable area, C&C
insurance, and I try to park in obvious, visible areas with lots of people
about.  (See, if someone just plays with the bike without intention of
stealing it, at least some eyes are on it, and if they get too rambunctious,
they'll set off the alarm.)

That's for a nice bike.  For a ratbike, the trick is to always keep its
actual value well below blue-book, so that it looks so crappy nobody would
WANT to steal it, and even if they were stupid enough to, you would make
a profit on the deal.  :-)

Seriously, if I (for instance) need to go on a business trip for a week,
and (sadly) have to leave the bikes sitting, they both get a shitty-looking,
but useable cover, locked on, and both bikes locked to each other and a
curb bumper in the parking lot under the light.  I usually rig the cable
locks I use (aircraft cable) so that if anyone pulls on either bike or
the cable joining them, the Concours alarm goes off.  And I have a friend
come buy every day to have a look and make sure they're still there.  The
only thing I have ever had stolen was a $60 cover, and that was over
winter storage, with the battery out of the bike (and thus no alarm).

Oh, put your own eyelets into the cover for the locks to pass through, and
place them so that they have to absolutely destroy the cover to get it off.

That's the best that I can think of.  Most of the locks I see people put
on bikes look, well, not too mechanically sound.  I like ABUS, since I have
personally removed Master locks from lockers with my boot.


Hi- Does anybody know the # for ticket info for Fenway?

Thanks


IMHO this are going from bad to worse. 3-in-1, 1-in-3 was bad enough.

I do not like a God who prays to Himself.  I refuse to believe Jesus prayed
to Himself  --   let's get real, if the scriptures say He prayed to the
Father, then the Father IS someone different than the Son.  I have no
problems with multiple Gods.  To me, the whole context of the scriptures
co-heirs with Christ; that we will be like Him.

Co-heirs share all things equally--including knowledge, power, dominion etc.
When I am like Him (Christ), I will be the same as HE is--and He is a God.

If God cannot do this, the His is not all powerful--and He is NOT God.
If He will not, He is a Liar--and He is NOT God.

But if He does, He is the greatest of all the Gods.


DN> I think I took on this 'liar, lunatic, or the real thing'
DN> the last time. Or was it the time before?  Anyway, let
DN> somebody else have a turn.  I can't debate it with a
DN> straight face.  Or perhaps for something completely
DN> different we could just ridicule him or gather up all the
DN> posts from the last two times we did this and email them to
DN> him.  As an aside, can you believe that somebody actually
DN> got a book published about this?  Must have been a vanity
DN> press.

I would recomend to anyone out there to visit your local Christian bookstore
and become aware of the stuff they sell.	Quite
interesting.  Most of the stuff is far from intelectual.  (About the level of
Chick pamphelets...)  If it is a common fundie bookstore, it should have at
least one section about how you should hate Wiccans, Pagans, Catholics,
Mormons, rock musicians, and anyone else who is not as fanatical as them.
(Hate for the "Love of God(tm)"!) It is even more interesting watching the
people who frequent such places.  Very scary people.  They hear voices from
"God" telling them whatever they want to hear.  (If they were not Christians,
most of them would be locked away.  Maybe this is why Federal money was
reduced to Mental institutions by the reagan administration...	Had to get
their religious leaders out...)

"Where would Christianity be if Jesus got eight to fifteen years, with time
off for good behavior?"
	 New York State Senator James H. Donovan on Capitol Punishment

                   Alan


Looks like someone left their terminal unattended.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

 /~~~~~~~\
\_____    |
      |   | TTTTTT EEEEE VV     VV EEEEE     |
      |   |   TT   EE     VV   VV  EE        |
 /---/    |   TT   EEEE    VV VV   EEEE      | Steve Liu                    |


I have placed a new release of my aXe editor in aXe-5.0.tar.Z on
export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12) and arjuna.ncl.ac.uk (128.240.150.1).

The significant change this time, and the justification for the hike
in the major version number, is:

  o undo has been implemented.

    By default only the last change can be undone, but a resource is
    provided to allow the user to specify how many, including unlimited,
    levels of undo information should be kept. Also, undo of undo is
    supported.

There is no truth in the rumour that the next version will be EmaXe 19 :-)

                          -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

For those who have not encountered aXe before here is a summary of
what it is all about:

aXe is a simple to use text editor for X that represents a significant
improvement over xedit. Also built around the Athena Text Widget it
features, amongst other things,

   o multiple windows
   o multiple buffers
   o default menu interface
   o optional button interface, with choice and layout of buttons
     under user control
   o minibuffer for expert use and access to external filters
   o provision for defining a keyboard macro
   o geometry specification and resizing in terms of characters
   o file selection via a browser
   o knowledge of line numbers
   o parenthesis matching
   o regular expression searching
   o restricted or unlimited undo
   o ability to change font
   o easy entry of control codes
   o xterm-like keymap feature
   o easy runtime setting of selected preferences (resources)
   o both brief and comprehensive on-line help
   o server mode with cooperating client programs
   o optional extension language using Tcl
   o optional Xaw3d widget set compatability
   o collection of reusable widgets that embody the functionality of aXe

I have personally built and run core aXe, i.e. without the Tcl and
Xaw3d options, on the following systems:

   Sun SPARC        SunOS 4.1.x     MIT X11R5
   Sun SPARC        SunOS 5.1       MIT X11R5
   Encore Multimax  UMAX 4.3        MIT X11R5
   DEC 5000/120     ULTRIX 4.2      MIT X11R5
   HP 9000/710      HP-UX 8.07      MIT X11R5
   MAC IIci         AU/X 3.0        MIT X11R5

but not all have been subject to the same level of testing. I have
only tested the Tcl and Xaw3d options on the first.

A number of '#ifdef SYSV'-isms that have been fed back to me have been
incorporated into the code and a possible scandir replacement is
provided for those systems that do not have one.

Although aXe will probably build under R4 run-time problems have been
encountered in the past. I have not bothered to try this version under
R4, and have not put any effort into solving previously known
problems.  Therefore, if you are at R4 you very much take pot luck. If
it doesn't work the only alternative is to try the last release,
2.1.1, of version 2 which should still be around. It doesn't have as
many features and uses the Widget Creation Library (Wcl). Not only
that, it requires an old version of Wcl, 1.06 or 1.05. Version 3 of
aXe was nearing completion when version 2 of Wcl came out so aXe 2
never got converted to make use of it.

aXe is available by anonymous ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12)
and arjuna.ncl.ac.uk (128.240.150.1) initially, and probably in due
course from several other ftp sites.  Check your nearest using
xarchie.

If you can't ftp, try sending email to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com with the
word "help" alone in your message body.  You will receive instructions
on how to ftp via email.

Jim


Gentlefolk,

        It seems to me that the "Step 1" of taking a warrant to the
        telco to get a wiretap is so much stinky red herring (don't
        you love animal metaphors).

        With each phone broadcasting the serial number of its chip
        ("E(N;F)" is not syntactically different than "N"), all they
        have to do is aim a reciever in the general direction of
        today's target and use the serial number to identify the
        session they want, and get the chip number of the other end of
        the conversation. Even without the key, this is great for
        traffic analysis. I can think of several ways to learn the
        right serial number.

        It looks like one intended effect of the Clipper is to
        eliminate the awkward business of getting the telco to
        cooperate (or risking getting caught in the act with your
        alligator clips erect). This is particularly handy if you have
        S1 and S2.

        BTW, did anyone explain why they are scrambling the serial
        number?

        Cheers,
                Marc

---
 Marc Thibault                             | marc@tanda.isis.org
 Automation Architect                      | CIS:71441,2226
 R.R.1, Oxford Mills, Ontario, Canada      | NC FreeNet: aa185


The RISC processor made by Fairchild, sold to Intergraph, much the same
story as the R4000.


..

	I think the -traditional option to gcc would help.
	personally I used -traditional -O2 -funroll-loops to compile it
	on SUN4.1.1.

	hope this helps...


And it is a damn good thing that she did post it since she claims to represent
people in rec.sport.hockey.

Her sole purpose in mentioning the net, as Steve Gallichio has already
pointed out, is to lend weight to her points through association with the
internet.  There is no other reason to mention the internet.  This is
misrepresentation and if the internet was a private corporation Alison
would be leaving herself wide open to all kinds of civil suits.

This is not a letter.  It is a petition claiming to represent a large
proportion of rec.sport.hockey users, and by implication, a significant
number of internet users.  65 names can in no way be considered a
"large" proportion of rec.sport.hockey which, while we have no way of
counting actual readership, is accessible to hundreds of thousands of
people.  65 persons is no more than a fly's fart in a windstorm.

Gee.  You looked up "large" in the dictionary?  What next?  Two syllable
words?

Let me suggest that the only place you are likely to envy the magnitude of
65 is when you are looking for ways to beef up your IQ scores.

As I said, he *might* be impressed by the size of the list of names.  But
it would have to be considerably larger.  But even this definition does
not account for the original context from which you lifted this sentence.

Well then what the hell is your point?  You don't really know if you have
an opinion about the hockey issue but you do know that you don't like me.
Is that it?

--


Oh, please, enlighten us all. What articles in particular are you
quoting from? I'm doing my Masters in Psychopathology and it would
interest me greatly in seeing these articles that you know exist
(yet I know nothing about). I'm sure I could give them to people
doing their PhD's. With information like this, they'll have their
degree in no time.  (sprinkle sarcasm where applicable)

Don't bother with the little-girl-is-raped-by-her-daddy-and-is-now-
a-lesbian-because-of-it studies. They have always been under critical
scrutiny as to their validity. (Correlation != causation).


For sale:
---------

One complete set of Lifecall Equipment, including the base unit,
portable transmitter and pendant plus 30 days free monitering service.

Description of item:
-------------------

Convenient and secure to anyone:

1. whose home is being broken into
2. whose parents live alone.
3. who has children or elderly parents
4. who suffers a heart attack or stroke
5. who is temporarily or permanently disabled.
6. and more.

Superior features:

1. Allows you to talk to the monitering center using the transmitter;
help will be sent to you as soon as possible.
2. Allows for personal freedom and independence.

Deal
----

Item is worth US$2400 in open market. Asking for $2000 or best offer.
Interested please email at kmgoh@leland.stanford.edu
or call at (415) 497-0663. Will send the certificate of delivery and
relevant documents to you.


So instead you are asking individual citizens to place themselves at risk
by assuming that everyone who claims to be a cop, actually is a cop.
Around here the police have actually made public service announcements saying
that if you are a lady driving by yourself at night and you see blue lights
flashing behind you. Do not pull over until you reach a well lit, preferably
occupied place, gas station etc.

It wouldn't be murder, it would be self defense.


Hi Bruce.  How do you reconcile this practice with Ezekiel 18?
Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul who sins is the one who will die.  The son will not
share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the
son.  The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and
the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him."

Is Ezekiel 18 not translated correctly in your eyes perhaps?

Sincerely,

Aaron Cardenas

P.S. I too am bothered to see offensive words being posted on this
newsgroup.  Obscenity is out of place for anyone who wants to live by the
Bible (Eph 5:4).

Moderator:  I would appreciate your not letting posts with foul language
through, which has happened at least twice lately.  Thank you.


I'm looking to buy a '92 Toyota Previa All-Trac with low miles.
If you are selling one, or want someone to buy out an existing lease,
please contact me by mail.


I'm looking for a good terminal program that will connect to
TCP/IP using windows. Some basic MS-Window that is connect to
a unix host would be great.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.


I've got 2 sets of sample cd's for sale

set one (2cd's)-geared towards house/techno/pop and rap

The 1st cd is all drum loops and drum sounds over 1500 of them
The second contains analog synths, basses, bass loops,  wavestations, vox
loops and much much more.

The second set-

A variety of different sounds from new age to rock etc... kind of a
sampler cd..(pardon the pun)

Both have never been used and I can supply a list of categories for the
sounds if someone is seriously interested.

I'd like 130 for all three as they were $200ish new...

Michael


I do not want to convince anyone. This is just USENET, not the real
world. I just read the opinions others have about a subject, and sometimes
I present my opinion. I think that this net is only useful to exchange
ideas. I never wanted nor I want now to convince anyone of anything.

First, and I repeat it, I never said that the idea of Jews having the
right to have a State is racist.
Zionism, as a movement, is more than just that idea. I think that Zionism
in the way it defines who is a Jew, for example, is racist-like.
In the same way I believe that Irish have a right to nationalism but I do
not support the bombing and killing of the IRA, I believe that Jews have
a right to nationalism but I do not support Zionism as it is right now.

That is what makes the basis for Zionist movements. However, I am not
considering just that, but the rest of it.

Which makes an interesting point. People living in a Jewish State have
shown that Jewish culture includes in it Jewish religion but they are
not the same. So, the Jewish people living in the Jewish State have shown
us that there are some problems in a State where 80% of the people is secular
but Judaism is define according to religious standards, or where marriage
is a religious stage, or where the Law of Return defines a Jew according to
a religious standard.
Did those Israelis who do not believe in god and will never do become
non-Jews? Why should they still define then a Jew based on what is a
religious definition?

According to Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, Merriam-Webster Inc,
Publishers, Springfield, Massachusetts, U.S.A., 1986, page 593,

hy-poc-ri-sy: A feigning to be what one is nnot or to believe one does not.

So, saying that one believes in Zionism as a simple matter of people
having the right to nationalism, but disregarding the right of the Palestinian
people to do the same, according to this dictionary, is hypocrisy.

I know what my words mean. I do stand by what I said I believe: Zionism is
a form of racism. Of course, I tend to talk about things as they are and
not as they are defined in a broad sense.


s:

Ahhh yes, Andrew, we meet again...

...no, not 'stealing' the oil, just draining it as to leave me stranded.

Let me guess, you're from Hudson Ohio??

Get out and see the world.

"IF" I were the vandal, and I really hated someone, maybe someone who knew
something about cars, of course I would look for ANY types of valves I could
undo.  Especially, special oil drain plugs, and radiator petcocks.

As well as putting bad things in the gas...

While I would never vandalize someone's car, IF I were to, it would probably
be the 'time bomb' approach, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks
that way...


Hello, a friend is under going kemotherapy(sp?) for breast cancer. I'm
trying to learn what I can about it. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks.


I have always thought that if I wanted to send the Police a tape with
a ransom demand on it, or send CNN a video tape to see if they wanted
to buy it, I would place a small magnet near the take-up spool so the
tape would be erased as it was played. Who would think to check?


:
: If the Bible is such incredible proof of Christianity, then why aren't
: the Muslims or the Hindus convinced?
:
: If the Qur'an is such incredible proof of Islam, then why aren't the
: Hindus or the Christians convinced?

If God exists, why aren't atheists convinced?

--


I'm glad this forum came up. I've been pricing insurance lately and had        considered GEICO. But no more!! Any company with practices like theirs can
E.S.A.D.!! I'll stay with Liberty mutual.

Steve Nicholas
Wells Computer Center - Georgia State University
oprsfnx@gsusgi1.gsu.edu


The problem with your nihilistic approach, Roger, is that it takes all the
sense out of the game.  By your line of reasoning, if a guy hits into a
double play with one out and the bases loaded, there's no point in saying
that that was a bad thing to do (if his team won anyway) or speculating
on what might have happened if things had gone otherwise, so the double
play is merely an event that happened in the course of a game that was
eventually won or lost for unknown reasons.  After all, any speculation
involves constructing a fantasy about what would have happened but didn't.

Roger, do you ever worry that the next pencil you drop will fall to the
ceiling instead?  Or are you willing to consider empirical evidence?

Teams go to the post-season when they win more games than anybody else
in their division.  If they don't make the post-season, they don't win the
Series.  Will you agree that winning a division is a useful intermediate
goal in ring-collecting?

If so, you must agree that winning games is a useful intermediate goal
towards winning the division, and our disagreements come when we consider
how to win games.

In your viewpoint as expressed, winning games happens for reasons that
cannot be analyzed.  While many of us are thinking things like "Base-
runners are good, outs are bad, and therefore walks are better than
double plays with the bases loaded", you are thinking things like
"It's a team game, so perhaps the double play will cause some mysterious
team dynamics that will cause the team to win today".

The result is that it becomes impossible to say *anything* about individual
players.  Perhaps Atlanta would have won the Series with me playing left
field.  After all, perhaps in some way my knowledge and personality would
have helped the team more than my complete lack of skill would have hurt
it.  Therefore, I could be an extremely valuable player.  Did Dave Winfield
have anything to do with the Jays' victory?  Probably, but how do you know?
If you replace him with Andres Galarraga, perhaps the Jays would have won,
perhaps they would have lost, perhaps they would have defected to Alpha
Centauri (bearing in mind that the flying saucers would not have landed
in mid-season had Winfield been DHing for Toronto).

Was Babe Ruth a good player?  He played on some WS-winning teams, but did
he have anything to do with their success?

It is generally accepted that Ernie Banks was a good baseball player, and
Jarvis Brown and Dan Schatzeder weren't.  It seems to me that anybody who
would deny this needs to provide the proof.

Now, we have observed things about baseball over the years, both empirically
and by looking at the rulebook.  It is necessary to score more runs than
one's opponent to win the game, so it would seem important to score runs
and to prevent one's opponent from scoring.  Runs are scored while a team
is batting, and an inning ends after the third out, so it would seem that
making outs is bad while hitting home runs is good.  Players have tendencies
to hit or pitch at certain levels, and these are usually somewhat consistent
from year to year.

We do use these statistics to predict winners, and so do you.  To make
some flat predictions:  Barry Bonds will have a higher OBP+SLG than
Gene Larkin this year.  The Braves will finish ahead of the Rockies
in the standings.  The Tigers will score more runs than the Royals, but
will also give up more.  I would be astonished if any of these turned
out to be false, and, I suspect, so would you.  As a matter of fact, I
am pretty sure I can predict all the division winners this year, given
3-4 guesses per division, and this is certainly better than random
chance (and almost statistically significant).

If you will admit that the Rockies and Mariners are unlikely to meet in
the World Series, you must admit that there is some sort of way to measure
likelihoods, however fuzzy.
So how about "real life"?  Person A robs a service station with two people
in it, using a .38 automatic pistol, gets $42, and is convicted and sentenced
for three years.  Person B, with a similar criminal record, robs a service
station with two people in it, using a .38 revolver, gets $42, and is
convicted.  Since they used two different types of handgun, are comparisons
totally meaningless?

Say you drop a pencil to see if the gravity still works (my cats are always
testing this - they don't trust me to pay the gravity bill on time).  You
have never dropped a pencil at that exact time of the century before, so
all previous evidence is meaningless?  Or would you be surprised if it flew
out the window instead of hitting the desk?


Brandon Wise
bwise@nyx.cs.du.edu


   This idea, that the Reformers somehow were the first to bring the
Bible to the people in their own language, is a myth.  Many vernacular
translations of the Bible existed long before the Reformation.  The
Vulgate Bible, which is still the official version of the Bible for the
Catholic Church, was itself a translation in the common (i.e. vulgar ==
vulgate) tongue of its day, Latin, and had existed for about a millenium
before the Reformation.

   It might also be noted that the printing press was not even invented
until the same century as that in which the Reformation occurred.


Does anyone know how to zap the PRAM on the Duo 230. Inaddition I have recently
noticed that checking the ram left in the finder on the duo 230 4/80
reveals the normal 1800K for the system file but only about 1/10 to 1/5 of the
bar is actually highlighted implying that only 2-300K is being used for the
system. What gives? I have had no crashes yet or other software problem...


Great start.  I realize immediately that you are not interested
in discussion and are going to thump your babble at me.  I would
much prefer an answer from Ms Healy, who seems to have a
reasonable and reasoned approach to things.  Say, aren't you the
creationist guy who made a lot of silly statements about
evolution some time ago?

Duh, gee, then we must be talking Christian mythology now.  I
was hoping to discuss something with a reasonable, logical
person, but all you seem to have for your side is a repetition
of the same boring mythology I've seen a thousand times before.
I am deleting the rest of your remarks, unless I spot something
that approaches an answer, because they are merely a repetition
of some uninteresting doctrine or other and contain no thought
at all.

[..]

I have to congratulate you, though, Bill.  You wouldn't
know a logical argument if it bit you on the balls.  Such
a persistent lack of function in the face of repeated
attempts to assist you in learning (which I have seen
in this forum and others in the past) speaks of a talent
that goes well beyond my own, meager abilities.  I just don't
seem to have that capacity for ignoring outside influences.


+ I am looking at a new LC III and a used IIci.  Prices

+ The IIci has much greater potential for expansion, a la NuBus and
+ greater memory capacity.

How important is this? How many NuBus cards do you have/plan to
acquire? How much memory do you really need? I've got a ci, and
20mb of ram. That's plenty. I also have a 24bit graphics card
on the NuBus - I'm a sucker for pretty pictures...I think the
LCIII can have a bootable ramdisk in memory, which a ci can
not have. At least, not out of the box.

+ The LC III would be new, under warranty, newer ROMs (is the IIci
+ "32-bit clean"?), and would have sound input.  I also like the
+ "pizza-box" case.

The ci is 32-bit clean. I solved the sound input problem with
a MacRecorder. But that's gotten to be a fairly expensive
solution now that Macromind owns MacRecorder.

+ Performance-wise, I have read that they are almost identical, the
+ LC III being a little slower.

The actual difference is probably not worth worrying over.

+ So, which should I get?

Depends on the price you can get the ci for. Educationally speaking,
the 4/80 [?] LCIII here at FSU can be had at just under $1300. Add
in roughly $500 for a monitor. Last I'd heard, an 8mb LCIII simm
went for ~$250.

I think you're in a win-win situation. No matter what you decide,
you'll most likely be happy with it.


This is the story of Kent, the archetype Finn, that lives in the
Bay Area, and tried to purchase Thomas Paine's "Age of Reason". This
man was driving around, to Staceys, to Books Inc, to "Well, Cleanlighted
Place", to Daltons, to various other places.

When he asked for this book, the well educated American book store
assistants in most placed asked him to check out the thriller section,
or then they said that his book has not been published yet, but they
should receive the book soon. In some places the assistants bluntly
said that they don't know of such an author, or that he is not
a well known living author, so they don't keep copies of his books.

Such is the life and times of America, 200+ years after the revolution.

Cheers,
Kent


A very well put together post. I disagree with several key points, but the
post is an excellent one with which to "engage in discourse":

    >There has been much discussion recently about the right to
    >freedom of association. Mr. Cramer and Mr. Ronzone appear to
    >take an absolutist position on this right--that it is a
    >fundamental human right, perhaps the fundamental human right,
    >and that it supersedes other rights, such as the right to an
    >equal opportunity. Others feel that a right to an equal
    >opportunity outweighs the right to freedom of association,
    >and thus we have the never-ending debate that flares up
    >repeatedly.

Freedom of Association (FOA) involves the MUTUAL and VOLUNTARY agreement of
two or more people.

Right to Equal Opportunity (lets call it REO) involves coercion in all cases
(by definition).

    >A major problem is that neither of these rights are
    >explicitly declared or protected in the Constitution or in
    >the Declaration of Independence, although both can be derived
    >from these documents. Unfortunately, this means that the
    >debate will never end, because neither side can conclu-
    >sively prove the validity of their view--it becomes solely a
    >matter of personal philosophy.

Yes, there is much debate. But no, it can end, with once and for all
recognition of these rights. (Well, not totally 100% perfect end, but end
in the same way that there is no worldwide disagreement that say, murder, is
a crime).

    >My personal opinion is that the real answer lies somewhere in
    >between. I regard both of these rights as fundamental human
    >rights which, unfortu- nately, come into direct conflict with
    >one another. Which is stronger depends on the given
    >situation.

Hmm, there is even MORE discusion about religion. Should  we take a
"somewhere in between" approach towards the State & a State recognized
religion? The first amendment, is so, uh, so absolutist you know.

    >For example, if the owner of a "mom-and-pop" store wishes to
    >hire an employee to help out, their right to freedom of
    >association outweighs the rights of their job applicants to
    >an equal opportunity. They should be free to hire whomever
    >they choose, using whatever criteria they choose, without any
    >government intervention at all.
    >
    >Similarly, if a family wishes to rent out a bedroom in their
    >home, or a garage apartment, or something similar, then their
    >right to freedom of association outweighs the rights of their
    >prospective tenants to an equal opportunity.
    >
    >If, on the other hand, IBM, a multi-national corporation with
    >275,000 employees, publicly owned, and operated by a board of
    >directors, wishes to hire additional employees, then whose
    >freedom of association are we protecting? The board of
    >directors? The other employees? The owners of the stock? In
    >this case, the applicant's right to an equal opportunity
    >outweighs the right to freedom of association, and we, as a
    >society, can ask IBM to use only those criteria which are
    >relevant to the specific task.

Why? Says who? Why can mon & pop have FOA, but IBM be forced, and force is
the correct word here, to have REO? As purchase of IBM is voluntary, then
there are very well defined procedures on how IBM chooses to do some things
and chooses to do other things. Why not let those same procedures work for
employment policies?

    >Similarly, if a landlord owns a number of apartment buildings
    >in which he does not live, and which are managed by an
    >independent management agency, then whose freedom of
    >association are we protecting? If the owner does not live in
    >his buildings and has no contact with his tenants, then the
    >prospective tenant's right to an equal opportunity outweighs
    >the right to freedom of association, and we, as a society,
    >can ask the owner to use only those criteria which are
    >relevant to "good" tenants. (I've put "good" in quotation
    >marks because I really don't want to be drawn off into the
    >side issue of what constitutes a good tenant.)

Why does this tenant have an "option" (I won't call it a right) to destroy
the FOA of the landlord? If the landlord and the tenant can't agree, then they
both can cease from using each other's property.

Suddenly, by arm waving, by magic, a landlord does not have FOA. And on what
basis does the FOA of the landlord "disappear"?

It seems that vague terms like "no contact with tenants" suffice.

Well, I think FOA is one our most important rightts (in the top 2-3), and by
golly, if the State is going to make it suffer, I sure would like to see the
heinous crime that justifies the removal of this right.

I don't think "no contact" with the tenats is even a crime, much less something
that should cause severe interference with important rights.

    >I suspect that the majority of the people in this country
    >agree with my position on these extreme cases, particularly
    >if they are presented in this manner. I don't know if Mr.
    >Ronzone or Mr. Cramer would agree--I suspect not. In any
    >case, additional problems arise when we try to apply
    >guidelines for the middle ground. What if the company has 10
    >employees, or 100, or 1000? Where do we draw the line between
    >protecting the right to freedom of association and protecting
    >the right to an equal opportunity?

Rights are not defined by majority/mob choice. FOA is an absolute. REO
is a fancy name for thuggery, for racism, and coercion.

    >The difficulty is that any line we draw will, of necessity,
    >be artificial. And any legislation resulting will be flawed.
    >In the past, the government has usually tried to pass laws
    >which referred to the number of employees hired by the
    >company--e.g., any company with more than xxx employees was
    >affected by the law. Those with fewer were unaffected.

Of course it would be. You dimly see that the line must be artifiacial, because
FOA is the only right. Just like a State religion -- you can't jsutify that
either.

    >Generally, I believe that if we do not have any regulations
    >affecting these rights, then the right to freedom of
    >association will be stronger. On the other hand, many of the
    >regulations protect the right to an equal opportunity too
    >much, weakening the right to freedom of association.
    >
    >I don't believe there is a satisfactory solution which will
    >please everybody. A solution that I came up with is to use
    >publicly owned vs. privately owned as the dividing line. If
    >the company remains privately owned, then the owners should
    >be free to do whatever they want with their company. If the
    >company becomes publicly owned, then the public has a right
    >to ask the company to submit to additional regulation.

Why? I assume that when you say "publicly owned", you are talking about those
quasi-State companys that do NOT have shareholders.

The companies on the Fortune 500, for example, are all privately owned. They
can give you a list of all of their owners. They have no "anonymous",
unknown to them, owners.

    >By the way, the above analysis is based on the assumption
    >that the right to freedom of association and the right to an
    >equal opportunity are both fundamental human rights of equal
    >importance. Since this is entirely a matter of faith, not
    >subject to any "proof", I do not choose to even try to
    >establish this. You either accept it or you don't.
    >
    >Any comments?

FOA can be derived by any two rational people, on a basis that neither has
evil, malicious, or murderous intent towards the others.

In short, agreement is mutual, or not at all.

Your REO on the other hand, lives only by accepting coercion, the gun, into
the situation. And that is self-destructive of the whole argument, because it
is based only on might makes right. Sort of like saying, "nobody has a right
to live", whereupon I whip out a gun and shoot you dead -- end of argument.

--
There are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of
environmental disaster. Weird, eh?


You know, you have a point here, but don't stop with African Americans...
When I was in high school in the early 1980s, on various occasions I had
knives pulled on me, had friends who were stabbed, and I was beaten up
repeatedly by those that couldn't accept me as different.  And don't
let the teachers off the hook either.  On many many occasions, there
were teachers that either resented me or were too scared out of their
wits by the bullies to even stop the people who attacked me and they
would just watch quietly...  All of this was in a nice white middle
class high school.  In fact, we were so nice and white that we made
sure that the one black kid in my class was unable to go to the prom
with his white girlfriend...  This isn't a race thing, it's the
way public schools seem to be run...

I'd hate to be in high school right now...  At least I didn't have
to deal with guns, just the roving psycho-drug-dorks and the jocks-
without-a-future-but-with-plenty-of-testosterone...

I'd separate everyone who wants to learn from these assholes...  But hey,
the valuelessness of learning and glorification of jocks is an American
tradition, you think anything is going to change?  If you have kids,
take 'em out of the public school system and educate them yourself...
That's what I'll do if I ever have them...  I wouldn't wish what I went
through upon any kid...  Maybe on some of their parents though...


Perhaps you've been under a rock since, say, the turn of the century. How
in the #$^& is one man supposed to review every single freaking
governmental action, every day? That's why we have an executive branch. HE
reviewed the plan and said "go," but he wasn't the architect and he wasn't
there, bullhorn in hand, implementing it. Yes, he was responsible in the
sense that he was briefed. So what! Shit happens. That sounds like a
callous way to dismiss the deaths of 90+ people, but I can't understand why
people get so bent about the accidental death/suicide (which is it? could
take months...) of some total fucking sociopath/child molester and his
crazed followers while opposing U.S. intervention in Bosnia. Just like
Billy boy said. I think some of you people have too much time on your
hands, and screwed up priorities.

Just my HO...


Religious fanaticism?


As I recall, it is a statistical anomaly because of the sample involved in the studies.
I am certain that if it were true the Europeans would be cutting kids right & left.

I think alot do it blindly because "Dad" had it done.  But there are many
who get bamboozled into it with the bogus cancer thing.  Awhile back some
quack told a friend of mine that it would help prevent AIDS.

Yeah...Right! (Sarchasm)

Oh YEAH ?

Scene: Navy boot camp

DI:		"Son, you smel awful! Dont you ever clean that thing?"
Recruit:	"No Sir !"
DI:		"Why the hell NOT!"
Recruit:	"Your not sposed to touch down there?"
DI:		"Why ?"
Recruit:	"Cause thats the eye of god down there, an' your not s'posed to touch it..."

This did not happen 40 years ago, it happened 2 years ago.


For one week, she probably wants to see how you react to the diet. If it
changes anything.

You can live on the diet but you need to up your calories. Where before you
had a pat of butter now you need a medium apple (probably microwave
cooked).  Smaller meals but more of them. Not terrific amounts of meat, it's
hard to digest anyway.

For comfort and to make the carbohydrate meal "last" longer eat pasta or
rice which give their calories up slowly rather than bread or corn. Maybe
smaller meals as you may be getting less room in the stomach area. Is the
baby still coming up. Is it starting to push or rub under your ribs? How
tight are your clothes. You shouldn't be wearing any clothing that compresses
your middle. Be sure not to "suck in" your stomach when sitting, again it
will put pressure on the digestive tract.

Try laying on your sides, back,
and stay in reclining positions for the many hours you are being inactive.
Easier on your legs (circulation) as well. You might try letting the baby
"turn" or at least not be forced under the ribs during the last months.
When you are shortwaisted it's easy for that baby to end up right under the
diaphram, especially if you have tight abdominal muscles. If I had my
second one to do over again I think I'd have tried to loosen up since he
didn't turn sideways until late and the relief was enormous.

Maybe this doctor does have a thing about weight gain in pregnancy or maybe
she just nags all her patients this way. Especially if she's young.
But this gallbladder/whatever problem that might be coming up is something
to be avoided if possible.

Nausea, etc. can vary from person to person and with each pregnancy. My
first pregnancy was miserable. During the second I had very little trouble.
Some articles have said that women with nausea had a statistically better
chance of carrying their baby. (grain of salt here)

Good luck


Now, now, before we get too carried away here....


    |
    | > Mary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at
    | > Lourdes.  She referred to herself as the Immaculate Conception.
    | > Since a nine year old would have no way of knowing about the
    | > doctrine, the apparition was deemed to be true and it sealed
    | > the case for the doctrine.
    |Bernadette was 14 years old when she had her visions, in 1858,
    |four years after the dogma had been officially proclaimed by the
    |Pope.
    |
    | Yours,
    | James Kiefer

I forgot exactly what her age was but I remember clearly
that she was born in a family of poverty and she did not
have any education, whatsoever, at the age of the apparitions.
She suffered from asthma at that age and she and her family were
living in a prison cell of some sort.

She had to ask the 'Lady' several times in her apparitions about
what her name was since her confessor priest asked her to do so.
For several instances, the priest did not get an answer since
Bernadette did not receive any.  One time, after several apparitions
passed, The Lady finally said, "I am the Immaculate Conception".
So, Bernadette, was so happy and repeated these words over and
over in her mind so as not to forget it before she told the
priest who was asking.  So, when she told the priest, the
priest was shocked and asked Bernadette, "Do you know what
you are talking about?".  Bernadette did not know what exactly
it meant but she was just too happy to have the answer for
the priest.  The priest continued with, "How did you remember
this if you do not know?".  Bernadette answered honestly that
she had to repeat it over and over in her mind while on her
way to the priest...

The priest knew about the dogma being four years old then.
But Bernadette did not know and yet she had the answer which
the priest finally observed and took as proof of an authentic
personal revelation of Our Lady to Bernadette.

(Note: This Lady of Lourdes shrine has a spring of water which
our lady requested Bernadette to dig up herself with her
bare hands in front of pilgrims.  At the start little
water flowed but after several years there is more water
flowing.)


There was a post about something similar a while back.  It seems windows
does *not* take it upon itself to free up any sys. resources an
applllication is using when that application is done.  That job is left
entirely to the application.  that is, the application has to clean up
after itself when it quits.

Anyone out there know if there is a utility for windows which  will
clean up sys. resources when an application quits (mother.zip???).

peace,
Mickey


REPOST - DUE TO NET PROBLEMS

Hi,
   I have problems with the FDHD on a IICX that EKG reports is ROM
revision 376. I had reports that this Mac was having trouble
formatting disks and by the time I got to it, the FDHD just would
not respond although all other functions were fine.

I checked the voltages on the DB19 external drive connector and pin
6 showed no volts with 7 and 8 giving 25volts unloaded. The power
supply is an Astec and I sent it away for repair.

With the power supply reinstalled, I now get the following error:

With the internal FDHD connected, the Mac boots fine but on completion
of boot cycle an alert displays "The disk is unreadable - do you
want to eject it?". For every combination of response, the alert
reappears within approx 2 seconds and this error is continuous. The
FDHD does spin but there is no head seeking and the FDHD is incapable
of ejecting the disk. This error sequence occurs regardless of whether
there is a floppy in the drive or not. Pin 6 on the DB19 external
connector shows 1.2V, pins 7 and 8 show 10.75V.

With the internal FDHD disconnected, the Mac boots fine and works great
(MacEKG reports no errors). The DB19 external connector now shows
no voltage on pin 6 but pins 7 and 8 show 10.75V.

Now, the internal FDHD may be fubar, but I have an apple 800K external
drive that gives exactly the same symptoms as the internal drive when
connected to either the external DB19 or the internal connector at J16
(after suitable surgery to the external drive). The voltages at J16
(with the internal FDHD disconnected) are as follows:

	PIN	Volts	PIN	Volts
	1	-	2	5
	3	-	4	5
	5	-	6	5
	7	-	8	-
	9	-	10	5
	11	-	12	-
	13	10.75	14	5
	15	10.75	16	5
	17	10.75	18	-
	19	10.75	20	5

This machine has a SWIM which I don't think EKG tests. I have tested all
diodes and pica fuses and can find no problems. Does anybody have any
ideas ?

                        Best wishes,
                          Woody.

                               Paul Woodman


	It does!  I do it to keep people off my ass.  They really back
	away when they see canon fire rolling out the back of a Harley.


     I recently found an excellent source for X-windows programs. I've seen
quite a few x-windows toolkits up there. The place is:

                     export.lcs.mit.edu

go to the contrib directory. Its full of x-windows programs.


I'm looking for an old album or cassette tape. The group is Sanford/Townsend
the name of the album is 'Smoke from a Distant Fire' (I think). This album
came out somewhere around  1975-76, and I believe was the first album produced
by Kenny Loggins after he and Jim Messina broke up.

If you happen to have this album and are willing to part with it, great. If
you don't want to part with it, but are willing to copy it onto cassette I'd
love that too.

Thanks

JK


Cool, then we can discuss the increase in radio and TV use,
the increase in the use of fossil fuels, the increase in air
travel, and consumption of processed bread, and you can
instruct us on which of them causes increased depression.


Then you haven't been paying attention to the arguments levelled against
them. They have been, over and over again.  They will be again.

Hey, what do you think dictionaries are for?  You quite obviously need
one.  A good dictionary gives both, and you well know it.

I don't think that data exist on this directly.

That is no problem.  But once again you are defining Zionism as *ONE*
movement.  You are implying that it is monolithic.  You *KNOW* this is
not and has never been the case.

You don't say it directly.  You implied it, and I showed explicitly
where and how you implied it.  Now you're trying to wriggle out of it.
Won't wash, and you know it.

It's you, not me, who is running out of arguments.

What you said is that "Judaism is defined according to religious
standards."  Now this can have several different meanings, and you know
it.  One of the meanings that it can have is to say that "Only those who
are religious are defined as Jews".  Another is to say that "Only those
who meet the religious definition of a Jew is one."  And there are
others.  I'm not twisting your words.  I'm trying to make you aware that
your words don't mean what you think they do.

Actually, it doesn't.  And the citizens' rights are exactly THE SAME in
both cases, anyway.

Jewish

Jewish

It'll depend on what religion is practiced in the house.  The original
law of return would still admit such a person if they were Jewish, if
memory serves.

Not Jewish.

That's valid, as far as I can see.

More than once.  As have others.

The very one you give above.  It is absolutely inconsistent with the
twist you put on it.

No you didn't.  You had to twist the definition of the word 180 degrees
in order to do so, and everyone else knows it.  I'm not being touchy.

Because what you gave *WAS NOT* an example.  IT WAS an example of how
the definition of a word can be twisted around 180 degrees.

Oh, so now what are dictionaries for?

Duh.  As a scientist, whose technical terms are very often not found in
common dictionaries, I know this.  But when a term is common, like
hypocrisy, a good dictionary can be regarded as an authoritative source.

It's not nonsense.  When people read what you write, they have to try to
associate a meaning to those words.  Dictionaries give the meanings of
words, don't they?  Now, I assume that you'd like to have the words you
use mean what you'd like them to.  But the fact is, you're using very
different meanings than are in the dictionary, or you would like the
reader to assign them new meanings, which they never had.

Not at all.  What I cannot abide is utter bombast when you've been
proven completely wrong.

I never put even one syllable in your mouth.  You have tried to prove
this and you failed.

Poppycock.

I read what you said.  I did not add anything.  You simply either don't
know that the words don't mean what you'd like them to - which cannot be
the case now since you've been proven wrong and you quite obviously
don't have a defense against the arguments presented, or you're twisting
the meanings.  Which is it?

Ha!  There's nothing resembling fact in what you've said.  I NEVER added
*ANYTHING* to what you said.


I am just beginning to try using the Athena toolkit and am having some problems
getting started.  I think that some files are missing on the system, but there is
the possibility that they are just in a different directory.  When I try to link
my program it can't find XtInitailize, XtRealizeWidget, XtMainLoop,
XtCreateManagedWidget, or commandWidgetClass.  I've included Intrinsic.h and
Command.h.  I also had a problem on compile with XtNcallback but replaced that with
a NULL in order to compile and see if there were any other problems.  I haven't
used a toolkit before and this is simply an example I got from the manuel.  Can
someone tell me where I might look for these calls, that is, in what file not what
directory they are supposed to be under because the system manager doesn't believe
in standard directories and generally does things his own way.  (I am using UNIX)

Thank you for your assistance.


Since Roger is a Canadian who probably knows nothing about baseball
I am gonna try to explain it to him in terms of hockey...

according to his logic...
I can say that since 1988...Bob Errey is better than Wayne Gretzky

hey...Errey contributed to 2 Cups while good old Wayne has won nothing...
(I think the Kings should trade Gretzky for Errey....what do you think Roger?)


[stuff deleted about Microsoft]
You must of read too many OS/2 advertisements.  "Crash Protection" is such
a marketing gimick, it isn't funny..  Out of 4 months of using Windows on my
new machine I've only had it crash ONCE, and I don't have a "run of the mill"
configuration.

Microsoft is not a leader in innovation, but they certainly know how to
build a better mousetrap.  Now, what's wrong with that??


I hope, I hope, that we can begin to involve ourselves in the issues
and concerns related to this peace process. We have differing opinions,
certainly, on these aspects but it is clear that we all share the hope
that "resolution" of the tensions and conflict **will** happen.

As we "run to the defense" of our side, there is no need to constantly
involve ourselves in name-calling. All of us are regularly confused by
the "other's" reactive posting because "they" spend most of the post
applying "labels" and presenting slogans than in just presenting their
honest views. Then...when we "react", we do the same thing.
-------------=--------------------+-----------------------=-----------

Do you, as I do, agree that this (sort) of "peace process" is needed?
What about the particular points mentioned in the article? Is what
Israel is (supposedly) going to propose "good"? Does it go too far?
Not far enough?

If you don't agree that a "peace process" is needed, what is?


I am selling Joe Montana SportsTalk Football '93 for the Genesis for 30 bucksm
which will include shipping. Firt come first some.


Article #61153 (61302 is last):
From: nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicki A Stassen Lantz)
Subject: HELP: LED connectors for motherboard
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:02:48 1993

I bought a 386DX-40 motherboard for 50$... no documentation at all. Everything
appears to work, except I'm having trouble getting a few of the LED connectors
working. I've looked at the manuals for 4 other motherboards, but the pin
configuration doesn't look anything like what is on this board. Does this
pin arrangement look familiar to anyone out there??? Any hints on where I
can find this information?

                 1                 10
      "speaker"  . . . . . . . . . .
      "keylock"  . . . . . . . . . .
                 11          ^     20
                       J23   |
                             |The board came with a jumper vertically across
                              these two pins.

I can get the power/keylock to work across pins 11-15, reset across pins 9 and
Shown 82%, press <SPACE> for more, 'q' to quit, or 'h' for help

19, but would prefer not to blow something up by further experimentation.
The date on the board itself is 6/92, opti chips.

I would really appreciate any help, and thank you in advance.

N A Stassen Lantz
End of File, Press RETURN to quit

Nicji,
It would realy realy help if you said what chipset and if the board
was an upgradable or not board and how old it and the bios is???
Sam


I recall reading somewhere that a number of bishops spent  a great
deal of  time  debating the topic of "how many angels could fit on the
tip of a needle".

    Does anybody have a reference to this?

    Thanks


Geico supports (reads gives to police) Laser Radars.  They have been known
to be very picky.  No sports cars. No radar detectors (although Maryland
insurance board over rules this consistantly). No turbos.

Basically it seems if you need to use your insurance ever they don't want
you.  They once told me they wouldn't insure me (perfect record) because of
my corvette even though it would be insured by another specialty insurance.
 "We must insure all the cars".  I think this rep didn't know what she was
talking about.

Geico is cheap.  But if you ever file a claim be prepared to be dropped.  I
think in most areas two tickets will do it.

Geico will never see a dime from me If I can help it.


Just a quick note on the nwe shape MR2s in the UK....

When they first came out here, there were 3 models. The base model had an
auto box and engine from the CAMRY 2.0 !!! Well I recentyl found out that this
model is no longer profitable for Toyota and have since scraped it. I've also
noticed that auto MR2s have depreciated a lot more than the next model up...


I've recently re-uploaded to cica the current (v2.8) version of the working
model of MicroCal Origin, a scientific and technical 2D/3D graphics and data
analysis package for Windows 3.x. The working model is 2D only and puts a
promo message on hardcopies, but is largely identical to the full version.
Saving Origin files is disabled, but you can save ASCII data sets produced
with Origin. It also says it has an expiration date of Sept. 1, 1993.

Try it. You may like it, as I do!

It's currently at ftp.cica.indiana.edu (129.79.20.17) in the directory
/pub/pc/win3/uploads as ORIGIN2.ZIP. The file ORIGIN.ZIP is, unfortunately,
incomplete (SORRY 'BOUT THAT!).


It is kind of absurd, isn't it?  Some players even want more distortion,
especially the Hendrix fans :-)  But there are a lot of them out there
that can only afford the amp, or who like playing music without distortion.
Then there are your hard-core Hendirx fans that want particular *types*
of distortion, i.e., they make it, not their amps.

I didn't see a thing about waste-heat from Babbage, and haven't seen one
of those mechanical TV's in a while, so it's anybodie's guess :-)

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk   \ They communicated with the communists,
18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3


[...]

   That brings up an interesting question.  If this interpretation is
correct, how would these people be getting into Heaven before Jesus
opened the gates of Heaven?