In the interest of accuracy (seems a liitle late to start
that, I know) the medical examiner has *not* contradicted
the FBI.

The FBI said they found some folks who had been shot in
the head, and the medical examiner said "we have not seen
evidence of this".

At the time the medical examiner said that, they were dealing
with charred bodies in the compound - this sounds like
typical medical examiner not releasing details until
a thorough investigation.  The medical examiner saying
he hasn't seen something is *not* the same thing as saying
that it isn't there.


For an expansion team?  I'm pretty sure I would go with the rings, as long
as their salaries and ages weren't too high.  I would want the fans to be
able to identify the players.  I would like a championship attitude in the
clubhouse.

As for Larkin and Griffin?  Salaries aside, I would have to consider which
player is likeliest to contribute to a WS victory.  Past performance, age and
attitude would all be integral to my decision.  I certainly wouldn't just
haul out my copy of Gillete and pick Larkin, as many others would.  And,
unlike many others who post to this group, I hardly consider myself quali-
fied to make those kinds of decisions.

I have never been able to believe it about myself, to tell you the truth.
It's like banging your head against a stone wall.

--


Hey now,

   I'm having the roughest time getting a company to cover
my new bike.  Here are some details about her and me:

I'm:

  single
  23
  riding with a clean record
  a homeowner
  a 'new' rider accoring to most companies
  not a member of MSF or AMA yet

   She's:

   a '92 CBR600F2
   got 150 miles
   got temp plates still
   one screamin' bitch of a ride...

   Can you get me some ideas?  We can take them to private
email to lower the noise on the net.

   mrr3@po.cwru.edu is a good mail address.  I need to
hear something soon so I can keep her on the road...

   Thanks in advance,
   Mark


This is historically incorrect.  Early Zionist 'fighters' did indeed
target civilians.  They made random attacks in Arab marketplaces,
killing innocent passers-by.  Your assertion of the opposite is an
attempt to whitewash history.  Anyone can read about the history of
the Zionist terrorists.  A good book to start is the one by J. Bowyer
Bell, an expert in international terrorism.  (His main interest is
Irish terrorism.)

        AUTHOR: Bell, J. Bowyer, 1931-
         TITLE: Terror out of Zion : Irgun Zvai Leumi, LEHI, and the Palestine
                  underground, 1929-1949 / J. Bowyer Bell.
     PUB. INFO: New York : St. Martin's Press, c1977.
   DESCRIPTION: xi, 374 p., [14] leaves of plates : ill., maps ; 24 cm.
      SUBJECTS: *S1 Lohame herut Yisrael.
                *S2 Irgun tsevai leumi.
                *S3 Israel-Arab War, 1948-1949.
                *S4 Jewish-Arab relations--1917-1949.
     LC CALLNO: DS119.7.B382 1977

For completeness, Arab thuggery of the same period was also rampant,
and targeted chiefly Jewish civilians.  Can anyone tell me what the
opposite of live and let live is?


[...]

                                            ^^^^^^^^^

He doesn't have a beard.

Rob, being pointless, wondeing if anyone else caught that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
____    ___   ____       /    \ Any resemblance between the above views and
==================  / .clarku.edu  \ want Clarkies to think about them.


What is the penalty if convicted of murdering 4 Federal agents
in Texas?  The death penalty.

Yup.


I posted almost the same bad experience with  Midwest Micro but our
%^*^&*^&* news program only sent one paragraph out of the middle. In
addition to the facts that:
(a) the modems (I had ordered two) wouldn't work as documented
and
(b) the tech person had NO CLUE as to how it should work,
it also turned out that:
(c) one of the two modems they sent was clearly USED but the techs
thought that was standard practice and
(d) the modems made all three of my floppy drives quit working and
my CMS250 tape drive start running away.

That they are incompetent is one thing, but that they sell used stuff
as new and won't even apologize for it is another. Stay away from
these crooks!


I applauded the Sabres for making the deal to get Fuhr, specifically because I
thought it would help them win at least one playoff series.  However, I don't
think the Leafs can be faulted either...there is nothing to say that Felix
won't be winning playoff series by himself in years to come.

Anyway, does anybody else find it ironic that Fuhr is up against Moog? (or at
least he was until a guy named Alex showed up....:-) )


Hi, netters:

We have a problem with 'makedepend': it doesn't know how to correctly process
#if clause in C preprocessor statements. It evaluates everything to
true no matter what the conditionals are.
For example, makedepend chokes on one of X11 include files (as distributed
by Sun) - namely Xos.h:

#if     !defined(SUNOS41) || defined(__STDC__)
#       include <string.h>
#       define  index   strchr
#       define  rindex  strrchr
#else   /* BSD && !__STDC__ */
#       include <strings.h>
#endif  /* !SUNOS41 || __STDC__ */

Here 'makedepend' evaluates both #if and corresponding #else statements
to 'true' and tries to open the file <strings.h> which doesn't exist
under Solaris2.
We also have a lot of #if statements in some of our legacy code.
We got and built 'makedepend' off the net - it didn't fix the problem.

In all fairness it should be noted that 'makdepend' man-page (Sun's
distribution) mentions this problem:

BUGS
     If you do not have  the  source  for  cpp,  the  Berkeley  C
     preprocessor, then makedepend will be compiled in such a way
     that all #if directives will evaluate to  "true"  regardless
     of  their  actual  value.  This may cause the wrong #include
     directives to be evaluated.  Makedepend should  simply  have
     its own parser written for #if expressions.

Has anybody come up with some solution/fix to 'makdepend' other than
WriteYourOwnParser... and willing to share it with us?

Since we often experience delays in our newsfeed - please reply
directly to my e-mail address -> I'll post a summary.


Feel free to patronize me all you like; I need the tips. :-)
Seriously, if you were insulted, I apologize.

People are sucking up to the government when they decide that ONLY the
things the government says are plausible.  Especially if they refuse to
consider reasonable alternatives.

However, from what I saw plastered all over the TV news last night, it's
no longer necessary to be an "independent thinker" to depart from the
government's party line.  It looks like our "independent press" may
actually be starting to be earn its clothes allowance.  This, to me, is
a good sign.  I hope it continues.

Independent thinkers question authority.  In a situation where only one
set of facts are being presented, "coming to a conclusion" is not the
hallmark of an independent thinker unless it's coupled with the ability
to challenge those "facts" critically.  The scientific method consists
of more than choosing the popular hypothesis; it's even more than choosing
between two hypotheses that other people have proposed.
--


:
: or the biggest killer (IMO)
:
:    6) one's dreams are (sadly) shattered on the hard rocks of society's
:       version of reality.  Without the dream the motivation dies, without
:       the motivation the effort seems useless.
:

Actually there are more possibilities -- one is that with practice the
hacker has become so good and powerful in manipulating data streams
that s/he goes simply underground...

Possessing true power perhaps there is no need to impress anyone with it.


   This is no less logical than the assumption that if something is
_not_ in the Bible, then it _must not_ be done.  But I don't really
think that's what he's saying anyway.  See below.

   What about the letter to Philemon?  In it Paul at least hints that a
certain slave be released.  Also, slavery in those times was not the
same as the type of slavery we had in the U.S.  I think a better
comparison would be to indentured servitude.  I don't really want to get
into a discussion on slavery.  Anyway, although it does demonstrate your
point, I don't think it is relevent, because the original poster did not
say that absence of specific condemenation proves something is not
immoral.

   Back to the original poster's assertion.  He is not in fact making
the logical error of which you accuse him.  He stated the fact that the
Bible does not say that babies cannot be baptized.  Also, we know that
the Bible says that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven.
_Everyone_ includes infants, unless there is other Scripture to the
contrary, i.e. an exception.  Since there is no exception listed in the
Bible, we must assume (to be on the safe side) that the Bible means what
it says, that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven.  And so we
baptize infants.

   To summarize, you accused the original poster of saying if something
is not forbidden by the Bible, then that proves it is OK; i.e. if
something cannot be disproven, it is true.  He rather seemed to be
asserting that since the Bible does not forbid, _you cannot prove_,
using the Bible, that it is _not_ OK.  There is a difference between
proving whether or not something can be proven or disproven (there are
theories on provability in the field of Logic, by the way) and actually
proving or disproving it.  The other logical error we must avoid falling
into is the converse: that if something cannot be proven, then it is
false.  This seems to be the error of many _sola scriptura_ believers.

   I think the only thing that can be proven here is that one cannot use
Scripture alone to prove something either way about infant Baptism,
although the evidence seems to me to favor it.


...

Speedy, you've got this all wrong.  When you're done, buy a better dirt
bike, body armor, decent boots, and forget about the weenie street riding.
:-)


John E. King (king@ctron.com) posts a whopping one liner:

 * "The modern theory of evolution is so inadequate that it deserves to be *
 *  treated as a matter of faith." -- Francis Hitching                     *

  I have a few points to make about the above posting.

    1. Science is not based on and does not consist of "quotes" from either
    real or alleged experts.  Critical reasoning, evidence and (if possible)
    experimentation are necessary.  Creationists frequently display a massive
    confusion about this by merely quoting both non-experts and experts alike
    (some of the latter quotes are in fact false) and steadfastly refusing to
    follow any kind of rigorous scientific procedure.  This strongly suggests
    that (a.) their claims completely lack any scientific merit and (b.) they
    are aware of this fatal deficiency.  Of course, you may not actually be a
    creationist and this may not be your real intent.

    2. You have failed to identify Hitching and the surrounding context of his
    statement.  Why is that?  If Hitching is a scientific illiterate then the
    quote would merely display his profound ignorance of evolutionary biology.
    Creationists are frequently known to quote real scientists out of context
    and to fabricate statements that they subsequently attribute to legitimate
    scientists.  Of course, you may not actually be a creationist and this may
    not be your real intent.

    3. Evidence supporting the alleged inadequacies of "the modern theory of
    evolution" would be a much more powerful argument than a contextless one
    line quote from an unidentified nobody.  It is also important to note that
    disproving biological evolution does not automatically prove some alternate
    claims any more that disproving that the earth is shaped like a hockey puck
    proves that it is a hyperbolic paraboloid.  Creationists seem rather fond
    of diving (head first) into this logical fallacy.  Of course, you may not
    actually be a creationist and this may not be your real intent.

    4. Since evolution is central to virtually all of modern science, an attack
    on evolution (either the fact or the theory) really represents an attack on
    science.  While the theory will unquestionably continue to evolve (B^) the
    fact of evolution will not ever go away.  Creationists lost the battle long
    ago (more than 100 years in fact) but are simply too willfully ignorant and
    irrational to acknowledge the fact.  Of course, you may not actually be a
    creationist and you may not really be that ignorant.

Warren Kurt vonRoeschlaub (kv07@IASTATE.EDU) asks:

 * Neither I, nor Webster's has ever heard of Francis Hitchings.  Who is he? *

  I, like Hitchings, am not to be found in Webster's B^).  Francis Hitchings
is a scientifically illiterate creationist (or perhaps he is just playing the
part of one) who wrote a quite ignorant book attacking evolution ("The Neck of
the Giraffe").  In that publication he quotes a creationist (Jean Sloat Morton)
using the standard invalid creationist probability argument that proteins could
not have formed by chance.  Thus not only confusing abiogenesis with evolution
(the two are quite independent) but also concluding with a "non sequitur" (i.e.
the conclusion "does not follow"). [pp 70-71]  Hitchings also misquotes Richard
Lewontin in an effort to support creationism. [pp 84]

  Hitchings book was reviewed by National Park Service ecologist David Graber
in the Los Angeles Times (and repeated in the Oregonian).  The article was
titled "`Giraffe' sticks scientific neck out too far".  Excerpts include :

  "Francis Hitchings is not a biologist."  "He goes after Darwin like Mark
  Antony after Brutus.  He flips from scientific reasoning to mysticism and
  pseudo-science with the sinuosity of a snake-oil salesman."  "He suggests
  a mystical `organizing principle' of life, using the similarity of organs
  in different creatures as evidence [sic]."

  Note that the last statement above is actually evidence FOR evolution not
against it.  If John E. King is quoting from this reviewed book it wouldn't
surprise me much.  It's also interesting that King had nothing to add (i.e.
he only posted a quote).


I had this problem when I initially installed my sound blaster pro and here's
what the tech support told me.

They told me to look for the files that are stated in the readme file from
the win31 subdirectory of the soudblaster directory. Now look in the system.ini
file and if any of them say device=xxxxxxx.386 than change it to
device=*xxxxxxx
Thats should work. Was your system.ini file erased for some reason? That would
be the only reason that I would think that Windoes is giving you the error now.


Somebody help me cure my poor computer before I go insane!

I have a problem with my 486 when running windows that appears
to be memory-related.  It's actually not limited to windows, but
that's where it causes most of my problems.  Ths machine's 486DX33,
8Meg RAM, 256Kcache, TRIDENT TVGA card, PAS-16 soundcard.

1)  Windows runs REALLY, REALLY slow most of the time.  Slower than
on my old 386SX16.  Graphics draws/fills are slow, boots are slow,
applications are sluggish, dialog boxes take up to 15 seconds to appear.
(Note: some of my other non-windows applications do funny things that
appear to be related.  Several run slow, my .mod player crashes the
system etc..)

2) Running Borland C++ 3.0 before running windows (or any of the other
programs)  COMPLETELY fixes the problem.  Windows will run as fast as
I've ever seen it run, easily 10 times faster for graphics than
when I don't run BC beforehand.

3)  I don't have a memory manager installed in config.sys.  Installing
emm386.exe does not fix the problem- it makes it worse.  After emm386 is
installed, running BC will not fix the problem anymore.


Just a follow-up note, I have sold the receiver, so don't e-mail or call
me anymore.  Sorry to dissapoint anyone.


It would be nice if someone here from the HST program was talking instead
of all the speculation that is going on here. From what I understand from
Dr. Frank Six of the Marshall Space Flight Center there is no insrmountable
problem in bringing HST back. IT was designed that way to begin with.

Also it is my understanding that the solar arrays WILL be one of the items
replaced on this mission. The originals were built by Brit Aerospace and
I think the new ones are too. I am currently working with the guys at MSFC
that are in charge is the HST power system, although I have not spoken with
them in a long time about HST.


Standings reflecting 2 completed series in Round 1:

    Participant                Points   Final 4
 1. roland_behunin                  5   CAL-6 QUE-7 QUE-7
    Dave_Wessels                    5   VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5
 3. Barfly                          0   TOR-6 BOS-7 TOR-6
    Dean's                          0   DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-7
    Oz                              0   LAK-6 BOS-6 LAK-6
    Garry                           0   TOR-6 BOS-6 BOS-4
    Brian_Bergman                   0   DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6
    Mopar_Muscle_Men                0   CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5
    BH's_Last_Place_Picks           0   CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5
    Milton_Keynes_Kings             0   DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5
    Sam_&_His_Dogs                  0   DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5
    Ye_Ding                         0   DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-6
    Tampere_Stars                   0   CHI-6 PIT-6 PIT-6
    The_Mighty_Hedgehogs_Of_Myllyp  0   CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-6
    Homesick_Hawaiian               0   VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5
    Killer_Kings                    0   CHI-6 WAS-6 CHI-6
    Puggy_Greybeards                0   DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5
    Ottawa_Bearcats                 0   TOR-5 PIT-6 TOR-6
    Andrew_Kirk                     0   TOR-6 PIT-6 PIT-5
    Muller_n_Walker                 0   DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6
    Excalibur                       0   DET-6 PIT-4 PIT-6
    Rednecks_from_Hockey_Hell       0   DET-7 BOS-5 BOS-5
    The_@$%@#$%_Rangers_of_1940     0   CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-6
    Jeff_Phelps                     0   DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-5
    Arctic_Circles                  0   DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-4
    Sludge                          0   DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6
    The_Logistician                 0   DET-6 PIT-6 DET-7
    Hillside_Raiders                0   CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-7
    Danielle                        0   CHI-5 QUE-7 QUE-7
    Stanias_Stars                   0   CHI-6 BOS-7 BOS-6
    BloodHook                       0   DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5
    Gilles_Carmel                   0   CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-7
    Pasi_Fr{nti                     0   LAK-7 PIT-5 PIT-6
    Evan_Pritchard                  0   VAN-6 PIT-6 PIT-5
    Skriko_Wolves                   0   DET-7 PIT-5 PIT-5
    Rangers_Blow                    0   CAL-7 PIT-6 PIT-4
    Sean                            0   DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-6
    Schott_Shooters                 0   CHI-6 PIT-5 PIT-5
    Gary_Shiff                      0   TOR-4 PIT-6 PIT-4
    Mike_Burger                     0   DET-7 PIT-6 DET-7
    Darse                           0   DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6


Ken,
Then what happens when you die?
Why are you here?
What is the purpose of Your life, do you think it's
just by chance you're in the family you are in and have the
friends you have?
Why do you think your searching?  To fill the void that
exists in your life.  Who do you think can fill that void


I suppose for the same reason that you do not believe in all the gods.  Why
should any be any different?  I use the same arguments to dismiss Koresh
as I do god.  Tell me, then, why do you not believe that Koresh is the son
of god?  By logic it is equally possible that Koresh is Jesus reborn.


We have an copy of the book, new, not read. $20 plus S/H. DC if you can
pickup. (The book has over 1100 pages and is quite heavy.)

Feng


J<-->
J<--> Yahooooooooooooooooooooo!
J<-->
J<--> What a game, we finally beat those diques...and in O.T.!
J<--> The Habs dominated this game and especially in O.T..

You realize that we dominated game 1 also and should be ahead in this
series 2 - 1?

J<--> Glorieux were plagued by bad luck; the puck wouldn't bounce their
J<--> way.  But in O.T. they got their lucky break, the winning goal
J<--> went off Gusarov's skate.  Thank you Lord!!!!!!

And it's about time! We hit 2 posts in this overtime and 1 post in
game 1's overtime. Let's hope that **we** start getting some luck for
a change.

He played well in this game but Roy's inconsistency still makes me
nervous. Otherwise, I'd say we're going to win this series, no sweat.
It's all up to Patrick Roy to provide **consistent** goaltending.

J<--> And those damn Bruins lost in O.T., their down 3-0.  Congratulations
J<--> Buffalo!!
J<-->
J<--> Life doesn't get better than this!!!!!!!!!

Agreed. <g>

- Jack

 * Tagline Bad or Missing  NO CARRIER


I have seen Copper Bracelet by the name of Sabona created by Dr. John
Sorenson.  I am looking for literature on the effectiveness of Copper
Bracelet in dealing with Arthritis.

I know in one case a 70-year old person developed bruise at the base of her
left thumb after wearing the copper bracelet on her left wrist for several
months.  She was told the bruise is "normal" and would disappear.

Is the bruise reason to be concerned?
Should the person discontinued wearing the copper bracelet?
Could anyone kindly point me to literature on copper bracelet?
What are the other information on copper bracelet?

Your response would be very much appreciated.

Thank you.

Lau Hon-Wah


If I get a chance I will ask them this weekend.

                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The words I have underlined are at the heart of the problem. A "quick
look" doesn't do justice to the depth of the book of Jeremiah. Having
studied the Jeremiah/Ezekial period solidly for over a year at one
stage of my life, I have to say that there is a great deal of underlying
theological meaning in the judgement prophesies. Let me make one point.
The clash between Jeremiah and the "false prophets" was primarily in
the theological realm. The "false prophets" understood their relatioship
to God to be based on the covenant that the Lord made with David. It is
possible to trace within the pages of the Old Testament who this covenant,
which was initially conditional on the continued obedience of David's
descendants, came to be viewed as an unconditional promise on the part
of the Lord to keep a descendant of David's upon the throne and to never
allow Jerusalem to subjegated by any foreign power. Jeremiah was not a
Judahite prophet. He was from Anathoth, across the border in what had formerly
been Israelite territory. When he came to prophesy, he came from the
theological background of the covenant the Lord had made with Israel
through Moses. The northern Kingdom had rejected the Davidic covenant
after the death of Solomon. His theology clashed with the theology of the
local prophets. It was out of a very deep understanding of the Mosaic
covenant and an actute awareness of international events that Jeremiah
spoke his prophesies. The "judgement prophesies" were deeply loaded with
theological meaning.

In my opinion, both the Portland earthquake prophesy and the David Wilkerson
"New York will burn" prophesy are froth and bubble compared to the majestic
theological depths of the Jeremiah prophesies.

--
                                                                     ___
Bill Rea                                                            (o o)
-------------------------------------------------------------------w--U--w---


I would label him rather an original Christian, not a Pauline Christian,
though. Sad that the original church lost the game.

Cheers,
Kent


As far as a member of the Armed Forces is concerned, the
President is whatever the h*ll he wants to be. All of them
recently have rather insisted on being treated as something
other than a *mere* civilian.

So if Hilary were asleep at the time......

I like living in a country where the head of state is not
a military officer too. But this point about not using the
military as the first choice for solving domestic problems....

Didn't they go after these Branch Davidians with a *tank*,
after all?


Although the $1 billion scheme is a fantasy (it's an old canard in the space
business called "trolling for billionaires"), there is a good chance that a
much smaller program ($65 million) will pass the 103rd Congress. This is the
Back to the Moon bill, put together by the people who passed the Launch
Services Purchase Act. The bill would incent private companies to develop
lunar orbiters, with vendors selected on the basis of competitive bidding.
There is an aggregate cap on the bids of $65 million.

Having a single rich individual paying billions for lunar missions is probably
worse than having the government bankroll a $65 million program, as the Delta
Clipper program has shown (DC-X was funded by SDIO at $59 million). We have a
clear chance of making a lunar mission happen in this decade - as opposed to
simply wishing for our dreams to come true. Please support the Back to the
Moon bill.

For more information, please send E-mail with your U.S. postal service
address.


Motorcycles are not allowed on th 17 mile drive at pebble Beach.


However, batters didn't use to go for strolls after bad calls to the degree
they do now.

Everyone was told of the new emphasis on speeding up games.  The rule that
Hirschbeck invoked has been in the books a long time.

Nobody, including Hirschbeck, ever said he was.

That's your (perhaps colored by your partisanship of the Braves)
perception.  Hirschbeck's view was that Gant was heading off for a long
walk, and in accordance with his instructions concerning speeding games up,
directed him into the batter's box.

The point is, based on the rulebook and the umpires' instructions, it was
*not* an unreasonable request.

The Braves were already upset

Had Gant done as instructed, you wouldn't have remembered the name of the
umpire.


We've just recently upgraded our X11 to R5 and are now running into problems
with some of our applications that use Motif 1.1.  It appears that pointer to
the widget being passed to the callback function (i.e., the "w" of
(w, client, call) ) is nil.  The client and call pointers are okay in some
instances, but bogus in other instances.

We are running SunOS 4.1.2 on a Sun 4.  After compiling X11R5 and all 23
patches (with the MotifBC flag set), we recompiled Motif and then we
recompiled the application.

Did we skip a step or leave something out?  Is there a flag that we should
have used?  Should we have left Motif alone?

Any answers or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Kathy


Last year, I was totally surprised when my annual physical disclosed an
inguinal hernia.  I couldn't remember doing anything that would have
caused it.  That is, I hadn't been lifting more than other people do,
and in fact probably somewhat less.  Eventually the thing became more
painful and I had the repair operation.

This year I developed a pain on the other side.  This turned out to be
another inguinal hernia.  So I go back to the hospital Monday for
another fun 8-) operation.

I don't know of anything I'm doing to cause this to happen.  I'm 38
years old and I don't think I'm old enough for things to start falling
apart like this.  The surgeon who is doing the operation seems to
suspect a congenital weakness, but if so, why did it suddenly appear
when I was 37 and not really as active as I was when I was younger?

Does anyone know how to prevent a hernia, other than not lifting
anything?  It's rare that I lift more than my 16-month-old or a sack
full of groceries, and you may have noticed that your typical grocery
sack is fairly small these days.  Is there some sort of exercise that
will reduce the risk?

Of course, my wife thinks it's from sitting for long periods of time at
the computer, reading news...


And thus, COINTELPRO, in which horrible people who threatened the
republic by disagreeing with the Government were systematically kept
track of for years...

--
Perry Metzger		pmetzger@shearson.com


I've got an IN-2000 working in a (wimpy) 386SX20 presently.  In a few
months I'm getting a 486 motherboard and probably a Toshiba 3401e CDROM and
a SBPro.

Will I need special drivers for getting all this to work?  Do they exist?
Basically, is this feasible, or should I expect to be getting a newer,
faster SCSI card?

thanks,
-Bryan


   We have a problem with 'makedepend': it doesn't know how to correctly process
   #if clause in C preprocessor statements. It evaluates everything to
   true no matter what the conditionals are.

   [...]

   Has anybody come up with some solution/fix to 'makdepend' other than
   WriteYourOwnParser... and willing to share it with us?

rewrite 'makedepend' to use 'cc -M' or 'gcc -M' or 'gcc -MM' (which is
the one I prefer, since system headers don't change that often) for
generating the actual dependencies.  you'll still need to write the
parts that edit the actual Makefile.  I think there's a program in the
Berkeley distributions called mkdep that will do essentially this.


Does anyone know how I can obtain information about the ICS widget data book?
I only have their email address, and they don't seem to be reading (or
replying) to their mail.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
! Jan-Olav Eide, Software Engineer / Systems Administrator                 !
! snail mail :                      ! email :                              !
! Nordic Offshore Systems           ! olav@nordic-offshore.no              !
! Drilling Information Services     ! voice :                              !
! Ringsveien 3, Box 185             ! (+47) 67125580 ext. 211              !
! 1321 Stabekk                      ! fax   :                              !
! Norway                            ! (+47) 67125401                       !
! "I don't believe in astrology.  But then I'm a Capricorn, and            !
! Capricorns don't believe in astrology"                                   !
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

--


So what do we have now, an integral over pain X time?

I get to lash you with a wet noodle for ever, but I only get to
cut you up with a power saw if I'm quick about it?


Note the difference here. One is saying, if *Christ* disagrees with
a Christian being gay, *Christ* can change that.

The other is saying, if *I* think being gay is wrong, that a Christian
cannot be gay, *I* need to tell them to change.

As Lois said, and as before her Paul wrote to the believers in Rome,
WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ANOTHER'S SERVANT?

-jen

--


I agree with the body of your post, but please reconsider your phrasing
here.  I think these ideas are selfish AND rational, which
is commendable.

Don't give selfishness a bad rap.  If we were all selfless there would
be no moral reason NOT to have a draft.  It [the draft] is the ultimate
in mindlessly serving your fellow man with no thought to the importance
of the self.


This may sound argumentative, but do the pro-homosexual crowd give the
same support to church members that are involved in incestuous relationships?
If we do a little substitution above, we get:

"although by no means all episcopalians are sympathetic to incestuous
men and women, there certainly is a fairly larget percentage (in my
experience) who are.  I am good friends with an episcopalian minister
who is ordained and living in a monogamous incestual relationship.  This
in no way diminishes his ability to minister -- in fact he has a very
significant ministry with the Incest association of his community..."

Do the same standards apply?  If not, why not?  And while we're in the
ballpark, what about bestiality?  I can't recall offhand if there are
any direct statements in the Bible regarding sex with animals; does that
activity have more or less a sanction?

Please avoid responses such as "you're taking this to extremes".  I would
guess that a disproportionate percentage of the inerrant Bible community
views homosexual acts with distaste in the same manner that society at
large views incest.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Cokely       | (714) 833-4760   scott.cokely@nb.rockwell.com
"They came for the Davidians, but I did not speak up because
 I was not a Davidian.  Then they came for me..."  Opinions expressed
are mine and do not represent those of Rockwell.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

[ Obviously you can replace homosexuality in the above statement by
anything from murder to sleeping late.  That doesn't mean that the
same people would accept those substitutions.  The question is whether
the relationships involved do in fact form an appropriate vehicle to
represent Christ's relationship to humanity.  This is at least
*partly* an empirical question.

In some cases types of human relationship have been rejected because
over time they always seem to lead to trouble.  I think that's the
case with slavery.  One can argue that in theory, if you follow Paul's
guidelines, it's possible to have Christian slaveholders.  But in
practice, over a period of time, most people came to the conclusion
that nobody can really have that degree of control over another and
not abuse it.

The message you were responding to was asking you to look at the
results from Christian communities that endorse homosexuality.  (Note:
Christian homosexuals, not people you see on the news advocating some
extremist agenda).  You may not want to base your decision completely
on that kind of observation, but I would argue that it's at least
relevant.  You can't answer the request by asking why you shouldn't
look at the Incest association, because in fact there is no such
association.  If there were, it might be reasonable for you to look at
it too.  Of course that doesn't mean that the results of all such
examinations would necessarily come out the same way.  Part of why
there aren't groups pushing all possible relaxed standards is that
some of them do produce obviously bad results.


We are using pkzip V2.04 and I am interested to hear from
people who have used one of the many Windows programs that
call these.

Which ones are available and does any one stand out amongst
the rest?

Is there a full windows version that does not call the DOS
PKZIP/PKUNZIP commands?


Does anyone on this group use this program? It stacks up pretty well to
Corel Draw, and since I don't have a CDROM, it was the best buy...


Thanks to Bruce Barnett, who recommended xvttool, and Bernward Averwald and
Liam Quin, who recommended modifying .Xdefaults to get the desired behavior
for a *class* of xterms.

In xvttool, simply create a key file that looks like:
"a"	"A"
"b"	"B"
"c"	"C"
...
and specify said key file on the command line.  This will translate
any input into any other (in my case, lo-case to up-case).  Works great, and
you get a customizable button-pad on the right or left side.

To use an xterm solution, add to your .Xdefaults:
capxterm*VT100.Translations: #override \
   <Key>a: string("A")\n\
   ...

or:
capxterm.vt100.translations: #override \n\
        <Key>a: insert-string(A) \n\
        <Key>b: insert-string(B) \n\
        ...

and invoke as: xterm -name capxterm

Thanks loads!


THE diarrhea problem?  WHAT diarrhea problem?  First, candidal overgrowth is
not a frequent problem during antibiotic therapy, and not all cases of
antibiotic-related diarrhea have anything to do with candida.  But a case
of vaginal candidiasis or oral thrush after antibiotic therapy isn't going
to surprise anyone either.  That's not what people are disagreeing with.

Oh, really?  Where'd you come up with this?  You know, it's really
appalling to see you try to comment authoritatively on clinical matters
in a bizarre synthesis from reading reports in the literature.
Bobbing for citations in the research literature isn't medicine.
I hope you're not giving the wrong idea to your medical students.


There are very few disciplines where 100% certainty is necessary to
state something as fact.  Baseball is not one of them.

Therefore I can say that I know Clemens was better than Morris last
year, and Larkin was better than Griffin.  No, I can't ascertain this.
I can't prove it.  But I'm not required to do so.

And since you obviously feel that such threads are meaningless,
why don't you simply stay out of them?


Hello, I've raytraced and rendered and the only difference I've found
is that raytracing takes a hell of a lot longer. Am I missing
something?


I didn't mean that it would necessarily help him improve at that
specific deficiency.  I meant that if having Bonds bat behind him
gives Williams (possibly unfounded) confidence, that might translate
into more hitting productivity.  But you're right -- if Williams'
biggest problem is more physical than mental, that's less likely
to make a difference.


Apologies...  Your mail is probably in the pile that arrived just before
I got sick about a month ago...  A reply will appear eventually...

So far, there have been none (unless you count an interview in The Amateur
Computerist about the history of netnews, which may be disqualified because
TAC's budget doesn't run to reproducing photos...).


The most current orbital elements from the NORAD two-line element sets are
carried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated daily (when
possible).  Documentation and tracking software are also available on this
system.  As a service to the satellite user community, the most current
elements for the current shuttle mission are provided below.  The Celestial
BBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, or 9600 bps using
8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity.

Element sets (also updated daily), shuttle elements, and some documentation
and software are also available via anonymous ftp from archive.afit.af.mil
(129.92.1.66) in the directory pub/space.

STS 55
1 22640U 93 27  A 93117.24999999  .00043819  00000-0  13174-3 0    47
2 22640  28.4694 264.3224 0004988 261.3916 194.3250 15.90699957   104


         Brad Thone <C09615BT@WUVMD> writes...

  Yep.  If Ed's list is over 45-degrees, the wind's too strong to ride.  :-)


...
...

I can think of another alternative:

4)  OOBE's are a form of contact with the demonic world, whereby one
intentionally or unintentionally surrenders control of his or her perceptions
to spiritual beings whose purpose is to deceive and entrap them.


(Deletion)

Sorry, Gregg, it was no answer to a post of mine. And you are quite
fond of using abusing language whenever you think your religion is
misrepresented. By the way, I have no trouble telling me apart from
Bob Beauchaine.

I still wait for your answer to that the Quran allows you to beat your wife
into submission. You were quite upset about the claim that it was in it,
to be more correct, you said it wasn't.

I asked you about what your consequences were in case it would be in the
Quran, but you have simply ceased to respond on that thread. Can it be
that you have found out in the meantime that it is the Holy Book?


Hello all,
I thought you all might like to see this. It's a letter from Jerry
Berman to David Chaum from November of 1985, in response to
information that Mr. Chaum sent to Mr. Berman.

While I have to congratulate EFF for its prompt response to the
Clipper Chip announcement from the White House, I think it's important
to recognize the philosophy of their Executive Director, as explained
below.

I agree that legal remedies are important, but when pressed, I'd
prefer to retain the ability to use purely technical solutions to
preserve my privacy, because they'll hold up under fire.

Mr. Chaum has consented to the publication of this letter on the Net.

I don't work for, nor am I a member of EFF, ACLU, or any similar
organizations, but I do agree with them on a great many things.

					--Aristophanes

----------

                     AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION

                       WASHINGTON OFFICE

                                                    122 Maryland Avenue, NE
 November 1, 1985                                   Washington, DC 20002
                                                    --------------------
                                                    National Headquarters
Mr. David Chaum                                     132 West 43rd Street
Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science         New York. NY 10036
P.O. Box 4079                                       (212) 944-9800
19O9 AB Amsterdam                                   Norman Dorsen
                                              President
Dear Mr. Chaum:                                     Ira Glasser
                                                      Executive Director
                                                    Eleanor Holmes Norton
                                                      CHAIR
                                                    National Advisory
                                                  Council

	Thank you for sending me a most interesting article.   A
society of  individuals  and  organizations  that  would  expend  the
time and resources to use a  series  of  'digital  pseudonyms' to
avoid data linkage does not in my opinion make big brother
obsolete but  acts  on  the  assumption  that  big  brother  is  ever
present.  I  view  your  system  as  a  form  of  societal  paranoia.

	As a matter of  principle,  we  are  working  to  enact  formal
legal protections for  individual  privacy  rather  than  relying  on
technical solutions.   We want to  assume  a  society  of  law  which
respects legal limits rather than  a  society  that  will  disobey  the
law, requiring  citizens  to  depend  on  technical  solutions.  e.g.
require  a  judical  warrant  for  government  interception  of  data
communications rather than  encrypt  all  messages  on  the  assumption
that regardless of the lawt  the  government  will  abuse  its  power
and invade privacy.

	As a  matter  of  practicality,  I  do  not  think  your  system
offers much hope for privacy.    First, the trend toward universal
identifiers  is  as  much.-a  movement  generated  by  government  or
industry's desire to keep track of all citizens as it is by
citizens seeking simplicity and convenience in all transactions.
At best,  your  system  would  benefit  the  sophisticated  and  most
would opt for  simplicity.  The  poor  and  the  undereducated  would
never use or benefit from it.

	Finally where there's a  will, there's  a  way. If  government
wants to link data bases, it  will,  by  law, require  the  disclosure
of various individual pseudonyms used by citizens or prohibit it
for data bases which the government wants to link.      Since
corporations  make  money  by  trading  commercial  lists  with   one
another, they will never adopt  the  system  or  if  it  is  adopted,
will use "fine printn  contracts  to  permit  selling  various   codes
used by their customers to other firms.

	The solution remains law, policy, and consensus about limits
on government or corporate intrusion into areas of individual
autonomy.  Technique can be used to enforce that consensus or to
override it. It cannot be used as a substitute for such
consensus.

                                            Sincerely Yours,

                                             /Sig/

                                            Jerry J. Berman
                                            Chief Legislative Counsel
                                            & Direrector ACLU
                                            Privacy Technology Project


BMWs boxer twin! (no two wheelers here?) Been around since 1923. I think the
other examples are Johnny come latelies... I may be wrong so no flames please..


No smiley on the part about atheism, I see. Do you realize that your
statement says that I was mentioning "nonsense" about atheism? This is
hard for me to defend against if this is the claim you are making, as you
have only included the last two sentences of my post and mentioned the
first. Please address the substance of my post rather than rejecting it
out of hand.
But, because of the sometimes ambiguous nature of English, I may be
misinterpreting your wording here. Please clarify: did you or did you not
mean to call my statements about atheism "nonsense"? If so, care to back
up that claim?

OK, then. Start up the amatuer psycology again. How am I "broken"?

*YAWN* Excuse me, I don't recall any portion of my post in which I called
Christians arrogant quote me, if I did. I do remember calling Christianity
"silly" and then following that up with information that I was nine years
old when I thought that. I also said that I find faith to be intellectually
dishonest and I would like to see some sort of proof of your god's
existence. I define "faith" as "belief in the absense of any proof", BTW.

Also, I subscribe to a.a as I mentioned and we see fundies of all types
there, so in answer to your question: "no."

Finally, I'd hardly call Christianity "beseiged" in this country. I seldom
see Christians ridiculed for merely practising their religion or wearing
crosses or having Christian bumper stickers. I don't know for sure, of
course, I only say I haven't seen it happening. What I have seen happening
is my homosexual and/or friends being beat up, or preached at by people
who claim to be Christ's followers. I know that this sort of thing isn't
practiced by the majority of Christians, but it is a very vocal minority
who are doing it and I don't see comperable victimization of Christians.

The implication being that I am not self-respecting, of course. I'm not a
student of psychology, BTW, but I am a student of Creative Writing and
Linguistics, so literary analysis _is_ my forte. Also, if the implications
I see are improper, please let me know.
I'm here because I'm not sequestered in my own little atheist cubbyhole as
you seem to think atheists should be. Did it occur to you that I _don't_
think I know everything and that maybe someone will say something that
will change my life? Have you read my other posts here or did you see
"atheist" and decide it was time to poke at someone who doesn't deserve
your respect?
Aw, geez. I'm sorry, I probably am getting my back up a little too high,
here. It's just that the "nonsense" thing really annoys me. I figure you
should see my first reactions, though, since they are my true reactions to
your question.
Now, the smoothed feather version:
I seek all sorts of knowledge. That's why I came to my university. Yes, I
am looking at your religion (well, sorta, I have no idea what *kind* of
Christian you are) from the outside, and hopefully with an objective view.
I've been trying to ask reasoned questions here, because I genuinely don't
know the answers to them, but when I saw the question directed at atheists
I figured I would answer. After all, you can speculate about atheist
motives here all you want (hence the "amatuer" psychology crack), but
without an atheist, you can't be sure of even one atheist's motive.
I'm hoping people really
want to know and I was trying to show that I actually checked out several
religions and I actually read all the pamphlets people have to offer and I
actually think about these things. Instead, I'm still faced with the
implication that atheism is some kind of aberration and that only "broken"
people are atheist.
	Try it from the flip side: I posit that atheism is the natural
state and only broken people are theists. I offer as proof that so many
people witness from horrible lives which picked up as soon as they
discovered their religion, that religion is regional (if people didn't
follow the religion of their areas, there would be a more homogenous
mix), so many terrorists claim theistic motives, and that theists tend
to be so pushy and angry when challenged on alt.atheism. Why are religions
so successful? Because there is so much suffering in the world, which
"breaks" people.
It's an uncomfortable situation whichever way you look at it, which is another
reason I'm here, to try to see the flip side of my thinking (and also as
a watchdog for logical fallacies :).
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The implication here being that atheists can't possibly know anything
about Christianity. Probably jumping at shadows again, but I think my
reaction is somewhat justified. After all, the first post suggested that
atheists are "broken", hostile people. This post confirms that someone
else believes it.

                                             ^^^^^^^^^^

Well, he got me there. I am a strong atheist, because I feel that lack of
evidence, especially about something like an omnipotent being, implies
lack of existence. However, I haven't met the strong atheist yet who said
that nothing could ever persuade him. Call me a "seeker" if you like, I
don't.
_Weak_ atheism is being ignore here, though. Some atheists simply say "I
don't believe in any god" rather than my position: "I believe that no
god(s) exist." For the weak atheist, the is no atheism to disbelieve,
because they don't actively believe in atheism. (If you think this is
confusing, try figuring out the difference between Protestants and
Methodists from an atheist point of view :).
This is another fallacy many theists seem to have, that everyone believes in
something (followed up by "everyone has faith in something"). Guess what?
My atheism ends the moment I'm shown a proof of some god's existence. Is
that really too much to ask?

Well, I guess you won't succeed in converting him or me. Why the
supposition that you will fail to convince him? (amatuer psycology on) Is
it because you yourself are unconvinced? :)

And I told you that I find faith to be intellectually dishonest. Note that
I can only speak for myself. If you find faith to be honest, show me how.
I have been unable to reconcile it so far. Maybe that's how I'm "broken"?
I tell you that I have invisible fairies living in my garden and that
you should just take my word for it. If you accept that, you are of a
fundamentally different mind than I and I really would like to know how you
think. All I ask for is proof of the assertion "God exists". Logical or
physical proofs only, please. Then we'll discuss the nature of "God".

Prayer?! Uh, oh, we'll have to revoke his atheist club card and beanie! :)

Good luck to you, as well. And, again, I apologize if the inferences I
made were inaccurate.

Muppets and garlic toast forever,
Max (Bob) Muir


And this results in a fire that starts in one room and torches the entire place
before anyone in the adjacent rooms can escape?  I don't think so.  So much for
the smolder theory.


In case anyone was wondering about upgrading their 386 or 486 class machine
without spending a lot of money, I looked into replacing the processor
on those machines and here are the facts (as I understand them).

If you have a PS/2 Model 70 or Model 80, you can replace the i386 chip with
either 1) a Cyrix 486DLC chip for $130 which will increase your processing
power by about 60% for normal fuctions, and not at all for math functions.
This chip will only run at your original clock speed, ie. if you have a 16MHz
machine the Cyrix 486DLC will run at 16MHz.
note: Windows does not use the math functions, so it is a good upgrade if
you are running Windows.
Or, 2) you can get a Kingston 486/NOW platform for $450 with a 25MHz i486SX
on it which will increase your normal processing power by about 100%, if you
were running at 25MHz originally. But again it will not increase the speed
of your math fuctions.  I think that it will continue to run at 25MHz even
if your original processor runs at a slower speed.
There is also 3) the Kingston 486/NOW platform for $750 with a 33MHz i486DX
on it.  This might speed up your math functions as well, but I am not sure.

If you have a PS/2 Model 70 B21 or other PS/2 machine with either an i486SX
or a non-clock doubling i486DX (ie. it runs at either 25 or 33MHz) in it,
then you can get an Intel Overdrive chip (which is really an i486DX2 chip) and
replace your chip with it.  You should get about 95% better preformance for
both normal and math functions.  The 25/50 Mhz version of the Overdrive chip
costs $450 and the 33/66MHz version costs $700.  The replacement for the
25MHz 486SX chip is an espeacially good deal as it provides the math
coprocessor which the 486SX does not have.  Note that the speed ratings on the
Overdrive chips are the maximum speed at which they can run.  If you have a
20MHz 486SX, then the Overdrive chip will run at 20/40MHz, ie. 20MHz externally
and 40MHz internally.  There is no reason to buy an Overdrive chip which is
rated at faster then your machine, you will not get faster performance.

You should be able to buy these chips from any of the microchip merchants that
advertise at the back of PC Magazine or PC Week.  You might want to shop
around as prices do vary.  If you need a name/phone number for a source for
a particular chip, e-mail me, and I will respond with a couple of sources.

Lawrence Khoo


Please Help if you can. Whenever I try to run windows useing the 16
million color mode with the drivers supplyed with my Diamond Stelth 24x
It will lock up requireing a full system reset to break out. The drivers
that I have for windows are V.1.00 for windows 3.1 (which IS the version
of windows I am useing)

My Setup
---------
386DX40 128KCach
4 Megs of ram
14" SVGA touch Monitor non-interlaced
AMI Bios

Any and all help would be apreciated, The card seems to work fine in other
modes, I usually run windows in 800x600 mode and probs at all, so I am
hopeing it is a driver and not a card problem.


I would like to hear from people who are thinking of going to the Urbana 93
conference in December this year.  I have recently received info from IFES
(International Fellowship of Evangelical Students) and am thinking about
attending although I am still not sure whether I can afford it.

I would also like to hear from people involved in IFES or IVF groups just to
hear how things are going on your campus.
Are there any news groups or groups of people who already do this.

I am involved in the Christian Fellowship at the University of Technology
Sydney in Australia.  If you are interested to find out how we are going
mail me to find out.


The subject says it all. I'm wondering if anyone on the net has
had any experiences with Cornell Computer Systems of California.
I was checking out their ad in Computer Shopper, and they seem to
have a good balance between service, price, and hardware. The question
is -- are they reliable?

E-mail responses would be appreciated.


It works for me.  I've run Motif 1.1.3,1.1.4,1.1.5,1.2,1.2.1, and 1.2.2 on
an X11R5 server with MotifBC defined.


I have some articles available on the Church and gay people, from
a pro-gay viewpoint, which might interest some of the people
participating in this thread.  Please email me if you would like
to have me send them to you (warning, about 70k worth of material.
Make sure you have mailbox and/or disk space available.)

There are no short answers to the questions we've been seeing here
("how do you explain these verses?", "How do you justify your actions?")
If you've been asking and you really want an idea of the other people's
thinking, I encourage you to do some serious reading.
--


I have ordered many times from Competition accesories and ussually
get 2-3 day delivery.  Once they had to backorder something, but they
sent me a card to say it would be two weeks.  Came in 10 days or so.

Always be satisfied, with CA and in life.


Is this not the same movie that sold at McDonald's for $7.99??
 (new)?


But the sperm would be very diluted in a "x" gallon swimming pool


We were at a dealership today looking at buying a car and
the salesman was showing us something he was calling a
"buy back".  Is that a car that was fleeted and then
given back for the new model the next year?  If that
is so, how many miles is a good number to have on it
and are these types of cars generally a good buy?


People *die* of natural causes, too.  We hear all this bellyaching over
things like murder and war while Mother Nature is killing people all of
the time.

In fact, more people die of natural causes than due to the conscious
actions of other people.  So, what's a few murders here and there?

--


[Note: This is a repost of my earlier response to Mr. Starr,
which was not properly formatted.  Apologies to those who've
seen the following before:]

To explain my position on the "War On Drugs," I offer this:

Drugs And Crime: A New Approach

by Ken Barnes

Given that:

1. The trade in illegal drugs is responsible for
much of the crime which afflicts our nation.

2. People who want drugs (particularly people who
are predisposed to addiction) will find a way to get
them, whether or not they are legally available.

3. Despite current law enforcement efforts, drugs
are readily available to those who want them.

4. Addiction to drugs, both legal and illegal, is
responsible for a significant drain on the productive
resources of our country, and this occurs in a variety
of ways, from the cocaine-addicted babies who are
unable to learn, to the spread of disease among
addicts, to the tragic consequences of alcohol abuse
and tobacco smoking.

5. A general economic principle of government is
that whatever is subsidized you get more of, and
whatever is taxed you get less of.  To be most
effective in confronting the nation's drug problem,
some way must be found to utilize these additional
powers of government to make drug dealing and drug use
less attractive.

While this country's current efforts to combat
legal drugs have succeeded in some respects, (there is
a greater awareness of the health consequences of
smoking, and designated-driver programs have helped
reduce drunk driving, for example), the same cannot be
said for the "war" on illegal drugs.  There remains a
core group of illegal drug users which support
international networks of smugglers, pushers, growers,
processors, kingpins, and gangsters.  These networks
and their "marketing activities," which include drive-
by shootings, corrupting law enforcement authorities,
and smuggling weapons, are directly or indirectly
responsible for a large proportion of the crimes
committed in our country every day.

Clearly, illegal drugs and rising crime are
linked.  It takes only a moment's reflection to
recognize how they are linked.  The link is money.  As
with this country's failed effort to prohibit alcohol
consumption, a black market has been created, in which
greedy local monopolies, like the gangsters of a
bygone era, have profited enormously from their
illegal trade.  The victims of this trade include not
only the innocent people unfortunate enough to be
caught in the crossfire, but, I would argue, the drug
users themselves.

Were it not for the black market, and the violent
monopoly of the drug lords, drug users might not be
the thieves, robbers, prostitutes and murderers they
have become in order to pay the high prices the drug
lords demand.  In the absence of the drug lords, most
would be, I believe, simply people with a problem,
either a moral problem_or_a medical problem, but_not_a
criminal problem.

Let me be clear however, I am_not_advocating that
we let the criminals who have been preying on our
society for these many years of Prohibition off the
hook.  On the contrary, the new approach I advocate is
one which would not result in either the government or
private industry getting into the business of
promoting crack cocaine, or any other presently
illegal drug for that matter.  Neither is it an
approach which sees law abiding citizens handing over
more and more of their freedom and privacy in an
effort to track down illegal drug users, until "the
land of the free and the home of the brave" looks like
a police state.

Here then is my proposal:

1. Possession and use of all presently illegal
drugs is decriminalized, but buying and selling them
remains illegal.  'Potheads' can grow their own
marijuana (as many already do today), other drug users
can legally import their poison of choice as long as
they pay the tariffs, and a barter economy of drug
experimenters develops.

2. Because of the barter economy which supplies
the drug users, the black market profits that have so
enriched the drug lords dwindle.  If these drugs can
be obtained for 'free' or next to nothing, why buy
them?  Nevertheless, there will be those who will seek
to sell these "noncommercial" drugs even at relatively
low prices.  Therefore,

3. Law enforcement activity is concentrated on
those individuals who continue to buy and sell, and
also on the crimes committed by drug users too poor to
afford even low prices.  But here is where the
strategy begins to differentiate between the drug
dealers, the victimizers, and the drug users, their
victims.

4. Upon arrest for_any_crime,_suspects are
permitted to choose whether or not they will undergo a
drug test.  Those who choose to cooperate are informed
that upon conviction for the crime they are accused
of, if they are found to be a drug user, they will be
institutionalized until they are clean, and only then
will they begin to serve their sentence.  If they
choose to cooperate and are already drug-free, they
can begin to serve their sentence right away.  Those
who choose not to undergo the drug test and are
convicted face stiffer fines and serve longer
sentences.

5. Institutionalization of drug using criminals
serves several purposes:

Drug using criminals (and this includes drunk
and/or 'stoned' drivers) are separated from their
sources of supply, thus reducing the total number of
drug users in society at large, and consequently
decreasing the demand for drugs on the street, putting
more of the remaining drug dealers out of business.

Institutionalization provides an incentive for
drug using criminals to straighten themselves out,
before becoming part of the general prison population.

While helping protect society from crime,
institutionalization could also serve to deter drug
users from becoming criminals, since drug using
criminals, unlike other criminals, would be delayed
prior to serving their sentences by the additional
time it takes for them to sober up.

Institutionalization of drug using criminals
separate from the general prison population would also
provide a closely monitored pool of addicts who could
volunteer for research studies of new techniques and
treatments for addictive disease, with the potential
to benefit both themselves and others.

6. Dealers in illegal drugs are generally not
drug users themselves, and this is particularly true
of the drug bosses or kingpins running large illicit
organizations.  Under this proposal, dealers would be
more readily identifiable, since upon arrest they
would presumably pass the drug test, or else decline
to take it in order to avoid having to explain why
they are in possession of drugs when it is apparent
they do not use them.  Declining to take the test,
they would of course face stiffer penalties.  While
each case of attempted sale of a noncommercial drug
would have to stand on own its merits, the outcome of
a suspect's drug test could provide additional
evidence for the prosecution.

7. Just as cigarette taxes have contributed to
the decline of smoking in our country by making
cigarettes more costly while at the same time
providing revenue for anti-smoking campaigns,
noncommercial drugs should be taxed, and the money
generated should be used to combat their use.
Enforcement of this tax should be on a voluntary basis
however, and should not be used as an excuse to
infringe on the rights and privacy of noncommercial
drug users, since to do so would have the effect of
reintroducing Prohibition.

Instead, drug users will be encouraged to pay the
tax by reminding them that if untaxed drugs are ever
found in their possession during the course of routine
police operations, they will be required to pay the
tax immediately or else forfeit their untaxed drugs to
be destroyed.  If drug dealers are found to be selling
noncommercial drugs on which taxes have not been paid,
they will face additional prosecution for evading the
tax.  The strategy of adding tax evasion to drug
dealing charges is already in use in some
jurisdictions, but its effectiveness is currently
limited by the illegality of drug possession.

Revenue from drug possession taxes and import
tariffs would be used to fund anti-drug advertising
campaigns, and provide support to private sector drug
treatment programs for those unable to afford
treatment.

8. Taxpayer subsidies to all drug producers must
be ended.  Federal support of tobacco farming is both
immoral and wasteful in this era of tight budgets, and
the marijuana crops grown illicitly on federal lands
in many states must likewise be eliminated.

While my proposal would have the effect of
permitting the use of what are now illegal drugs, it
would hold the users of all drugs responsible for
their actions, and I believe, would reduce the harm
drugs have on our society, particularly the crime
caused by the illegal drug trade.  So long as we
remain a free nation, with relatively porous borders,
and freedom for our citizens to travel, we will always
have a drug problem.  Whether it takes the form of
heroin addicts dying in abandoned buildings, drunk
drivers killing and maiming others on our streets, or
emphysema patients struggling for breath after a
lifetime of smoking, the results are the same:
needless suffering and death.  As a society we must
recognize that while our society permits us to harm
ourselves with drugs, as we are already doing
(regardless of the drug laws), we must take a stand
against the harm that drugs and drug users cause to
others.  We must particularly oppose the vicious and
violent cartels which prey on the weakness of drug
users.  By taking the profits out of their deadly
trade, my proposal goes a long way towards shutting
down these powerful criminal organizations.

The question of whether drug use is a moral or
medical problem depends on which group of drug users
you're talking about.  Different drugs have different
effects, and some are more addictive than others.  The
addictiveness of a drug also often varies between
individuals, and so we have some people who can drink
alcohol in moderation, while others find they cannot
resist the bottle.  Nicotine, which former Surgeon
General C. Everett Koop declared to be as addicting as
heroin, is a legal drug with known harmful effects,
and while some people can stop smoking by willpower
alone, others continue to smoke even after treatment
for lung cancer.

For those individuals who can stop taking drugs
on their own, we may argue that because they have
chosen to use them, this represents a moral failure on
their part, or an unwillingness to face the
difficulties of life.  But for the addicts, while they
may have chosen to use drugs the first time, by the
time they discover their addiction it is too late.  We
cannot hold them responsible for their disease, any
more than we would blame someone who is drowning for
an inability to swim.  Perhaps they should have known
not to go near the water, or perhaps someone should
have warned them of the danger, but in their present
circumstances warnings will not help.  Neither does it
help for the drug dealers on the shore to be tossing
them weights.


Save youself the cash.  Take it from a BMW mechanic.  Idiot lights are for just that.  Buy yourself a ballpoint pen and write it down yourself.  Change your oil every 3000 mi. and you will be just fine.


How about some sources for all these numbers? Or is this more stuff that
"everybody knows"?


I'm familiar with the telethon situation (an individual on CompuServe
was also victimized and was equally pissed).  That was a local
television station contract which could not be broken.  For that item,
I strongly suggest you call that affiliate and vent your anger on
them.  (Supposedly one station had told my friend that they have
received hundreds of angry calls which will translate into far less
incentive to pre-empt hockey telecasts in future.  The contract was
written when the pathetic WLAF was in that time slot.)


Laser printers often emit ozone (which smells sort of like Clorox).
Adequate ventilation is recommended.


agents
of

The original poster did not say why his mother had been in hospital
but I can answer a few general points.

Elderly patients may exhibit a marked difficulty in coping after
being in hospital for a few days. The drastic change of environment
will often unmask how marginally they have been coping at home. Even
young people find the change unsettling.

Though we have thought that this decrement in function after - say -
anaesthesia and surgery for a fractured hip (a common event in the
elderly) was due to anaesthesia there is good evidence that the
change of situation is much more important. Some hospitals have
tried a 'rapid transit' system for hip fractures, aiming to have the
patient back at home within 24 hours of admission. The selection of
the anaesthetic has no effect on the ability to discharge these
patients early.

Anaesthetists who work with the elderly (which is almost all of us)
generally take care to tailor the choice and dose of drugs used to
the individual patient. Even so, there is some evidence that full
mental recovery may take a surprisingly long time to return. This is
the sort of thing which is detected by setting quite difficult
tasks, not the gross change that the original poster noted.

Haloperidol (Haldol TM) is a long acting drug. The plasma half life
of the drug is up to 35 hours. If the decanoate (a sort of slow
release formulation) is used it may be weeks. The elderly are
sensitive to haloperidol for a number of reasons. Without knowing
more it is hard to comment.


Hi folks,

I'm doing an animated film on new methodes in loom
research (You know, the thing they make cloth with.)
and need a model of a loom. The format should be
in ascii faceted geometry and fairly straight
forward to figure out. Any help or pointers would be
greatly appreciated.

-Thanks

Rick Boykin

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Rick Boykin (rboykin@cscsparc.larc.nasa.gov)
    Computer Sciences Corporation, Hampton, VA.

    "So maybe I could be a fly
     and feed arachnid as I die"     -Tom Marshall


     writes...

Oh, probably.

Ms. Nichols has given the average game times (and average runs scored) for
1983 and 1992.  (A very nice piece of information, Ms. Nichols.  Who knows?
She may be listening, and not have me in her kill file after all.)  Those
numbers indicate somewhere in the neighborhood of half-a-run *less* being
scored per game, and the games taking 15 minutes *longer*.  Something is
being done now that wasn't done ten years ago, which is extending the games
by 15 minutes.  Ms. Nichols thinks it's more pitches.  Given the increasing
specialization of pitchers, it wouldn't surprise me.

If it's not simply more pitches, though, I don't think it's unreasonable
to think that something can be done to get ten of those minutes back.  Then
I get a couple more from shortening the warmup time for a relief pitcher
after he comes in, and a couple more still from enforcing existing rules,
which have been stated in other posts in this thread (and other related ones).

The problem is, who decides whether that time is "wasted?"  You don't seem
to think it is at all.  Right now, I think it is, although I have heard one
case favoring giving the reliever all the warmups he thinks he needs (the
difference in mounds between the field and pen) -- but who knows?  If the
rules get changed, maybe something I didn't foresee will happen to change my
mind.  But you can bet a lot of minds would fail to foresee the same thing,
or else nothing will be changed.

RG


When it's too windy to stand.

When you're on the road in high winds, stay alert.  Even more alert
than your "alert 'cause you're on a motorcycle and they're out to kill
you" kind of alert.  Be aware of the terrain, and how it may funnel
wind in sudden gusts (well, not gusts to somebody standing there, but
it's gusty 'cause you ride through it).  If you are riding in a steady
crosswind, be aware of a hill that will block the wind, and adjust your
lean angle.  Be aware of passing trucks to your windward side, your
lean angle will change dramatically both as you enter and as you leave
their turbulance cone.  Reducing your profile may help, ie, lean on the
gas tank and kiss the triple clamp.  Keep a nimble hand on the
steering, be ready to countersteer into and out of sudden wind bursts.
Keep a larger than usual buffer zone, both ahead and behind, and to the
side, you can easily be blown half a lane over before you can react by
countersteering.  Keep a close eye on traffic in your mirror, if
someone is coming up wanting to pass, get out of their way early.  Stop
often for short brakes, extensive riding in high winds is both mentally
and physically fatiguing.


Has anyone successfully programmed this beast using the bootloader pgm
with the circuit described in `the little green handbook, pg 9-1`?

Dan.
--

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Adrian Blockley                    ! I may say something profound
Environmental science              ! here one day.
Murdoch University                 !
Western Australia, 6153            !
blockley@essun1.murdoch.edu.au     !
phone 09-360 2737                  !


If ESPN pisses you off, call them - they do respond to calls. Last night I
called when they said they were cutting to baseball and we couldn't see the
sudden-death overtime for the BUffalo game. Apparently they received enough
calls so they waited for the overtime to finish before cutting away.

Their phone number is 203-585-2000


-- That means that there cannot be any atheists  since there is NO WAY that you
can prove that there is no god. Atheists are people who BELIEVE that there is no
god, most not only believe, but also are damn sure that there isn't a god (like
me).

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service.
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   "What's the use of computers? They'll never play  | "Why pay money to see
   chess, draw art or make music." - Jean Genet.     | bad films? Stay home
   "Intelligence isn't to make no mistakes, but how  | and see bad TV for
   to make them look good." - Bertolt Brecht.        | free." - Sam Goldwyn.


I see no other way of interpreting them other than homosexuyality
being wrong.  Please tell me how these verses can be interpreted in
any other way.  I read them and the surrounding text.


Maybe you had accidentally sealed in some water?  I cleaned my chain
thoroughly, took it on a short ride to dry it off and heat it up
a bit, and the paraffin sank deep into the rollers and formed a good
seal on the outside.  No rust, but then again I live in Tucson!


That's pretty good.

A friend had an Audi that he named Murphy.


How about the name and number of the pin place.  I would think that 115
or so people calling to bitch about why orders placed after ours are getting
done first might speed things along.

Dean


Does any one know where I can get a telecaption decoder module?

Need it to build a close caption decoder.
Thanks.

Wayne


I'm looking for any and all information regarding packet radio
implementation on the PC.  Software, hardware, whatever.

Please e-mail any info to koberg@spot.colorado.edu.


Thank you.  I now know at least that though I may be on drugs, at
least I'm not the only one.

Yes, this took some getting used to -- of course not having an Indian
connection, no knowledge of hindi, etc., this was not trivial for me.
I did have, thanks to the wonders of the net, "A Glossary to *Satanic
Verses*", posted to rec.arts.books by Vijay Raghavan, which explains a
lot of the Indian English constructions, Indian culture references,
even the Islamic references ("Jahilia", "Submission", the context of
the Satanic Verses incident, etc.) -- what I have only covers the
first couple of hundred pages, but it helped me get into the flow of
the novel [I can mail this to anyone interested; if anyone has
portions after part I, if they exist, I'd like to get those].


Well, we already suffer from street hoardings.  If you don't
watch TV, you are free of commercials there, but if you want
to go from A to B you cannot escape beer ads.

I think the right time to stop this proposal is now.

If this idea goes through, it's the thin end of the wedge.  Soon
companies will be doing larger, and more permanant, billboards in the
sky.  I wouldn't want a world a few decades from now when the sky
looks like Las Vegas.  That would _really_ make me sad.

Coca Cola company will want to paint the moon red and white.  (Well,
if not this moon, then a moon of Jupiter).  Microscum will want to
name a galaxy `Microscum Galaxy'.  Where do we draw the line?
Historically mankind is not very good at drawing fine lines.

I'm normally extremely enthusiastic about all forms of resource
allocation for space research; I think it's the most important
investment possible for mankind in the long run.  But this is not
the way to get the money.

        -ans.


We're having to associate with you against our will.  This is fascism!

You don't have to associate with anyone against your will.  Go live in a
cave.  We won't miss you.

Drewcifer


Playmation is available direct from Anjon & Associates for $299.  It's hard
to beat that price.  Also, you'd be better off with a newer version than
an older version that had bugs that have long since been clobbered.


That's fascinating.   I heard that the Chinese, rather than
the Italians, invented pasta.


I would like to know as well, since I just bought a 200MB Seagate IDE
drive and want to add it to my computer (a four-year-old Gateway
386/20), which currently has an 80MB Seagate SCSI drive.  The SCSI
controller is such that the docs told me not to specify it in the CMOS
setup, i.e. both hard drive settings are listed as "Not installed,"
and apparently the SCSI controller works its wonders.  I wondering if
this is a problem.  Also, I remember how, when I helped my cousin
install his second IDE drive, we had to define a master/slave
relationship for them; do I need to do something similar here?

Same here.

Any help would be appreciated, since I intend to install this drive
ASAP; I'd like to know what to do (and what not to do) before I start.
Thanks!
--


# # 	Actually, I was rather surprised to see an article on this subject
# # (i.e. the "new, inproved" survey saying that roughly 1% of men are gay)
# # on the front page of The New York _Times_ recently (I think it was
# # on Thurs, 15 April).  The headline was something to the effect of
# # "New Survey Finds 1% of Men Are Gay"
#
# Does anyone else see the difference between "1% of Men Are Gay" and 1%
# of Men surveyed *say* they are gay?  Does the NY Times think that
# there is no one "in the closet"?

I see.  When survey after survey show 1-4%, we are supposed to believe
ONE survey, done with very poor assumptions, with a very atypical
population, 40 years ago when the society was FAR more repressed about
homosexuality than it is now.  Yeah, right.

# Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect


Has anybody ever heard of Hawk EISA/VLB motherboards?  NET Computers
International (from Computer Shopper) has the 486/33 version w/256k
cache for $559.  I'm trying to decide between this motherboard and the
NICE motherboard.  Thanks!

  PS:  The Hawk motherboard has 3 EISA slots, two of which are VLB.  The
spec sounds identical to the Nice.


What string did you use to do this?


[...stuff deleted...]

Thank you.  I thought I was in the twilight zone for a moment.
It still amazes me that many people with science backgrounds
still confuse the models and observables with what even they
would call the real world.

-jim halat


   I assume that can only be guessed at by the assumed energy of the
   event and the 1/r^2 law.  So, if the 1/r^2 law is incorrect (assume
   some unknown material [dark matter??] inhibits Gamma Ray propagation),
   could it be possible that we are actually seeing much less energetic
   events happening much closer to us?  The even distribution could
   be caused by the characteristic propagation distance of gamma rays
   being shorter then 1/2 the thickness of the disk of the galaxy.


21 Apr 1993 10:28:02 Gillian E Runcie Writes:

Dear Gillian

That is such a wickedly cool idea; why didn't I think of it??? However, here
in Canada the aerials (antenna) are usually near the driver or passenger areas
and I would surely be seen......but I'll give it a try anyway.

Thanks for the first truely useable piece of information I have heard in a long
time (and you are by no means a mere female, as this way at getting back takes
real guts to do).


Recently we have found TIFF manipulation packages which do not recognize
TIFF files output by xv.  This is due to a missing XRESOLUTION and YRESOLUTION
tag which apparently is required (or at least believed to be required) for
valid TIFF.  I have checked both xv 2.x and xv 3.x and neither of these
do indeed copy these tags.

Has anyone out there hacked in the fixes for xv to support these tags?
I have been told that I could find some code in tiff/tools/tiffcp.c, but
that directory is one of many of the tiff group not distributed with xv.  I
hope to obtain the original tiff src and look at it, but would prefer
to find code already known to work in xv.


While the 64K limit may not be _necessary_ limitation, they probably fall
within the category of 'reasonable' limitations.  If you find yourself
trying to allocate an edit control for more than 64K of text, it's probably
time take a good look at your program's design.

In what way is 8192 a 'small' number?  It seems to me that you'd hit the
wall in many other ways before you'd hit the systemwide limit on global
handles, unless, of course, you're abusing GlobalAlloc.

And _please_ don't try to tell me that it's impossible to abuse the
resources available under other operating systems.  All systems have
limits.  The question is whether or not the limits are _reasonable_.  So
far, you haven't offered a single argument which suggests that Windows'
limits are any less reasonable than limits in other systems.

--
Rick Schaut
UUCP:...{uunet | uw-beaver}!microsoft!richs


From the Pluto Fast Flyby Instrument definition research anouncemnet,
the instrument payload constraints are:
    Mass allocation -  7 kilograms (15.4 lbs)
    Power allocation - 6 watts
    Required instruments:
	Visible imaging system (1024x1024 CCD, 750 mm fl, f/10 optics)
	IR mapping spectrometer (256x256 HgCdTe array, 0.3% energy resolution)
	UV spectrometer (55-200 nm, 0.5 nm resolution)
	Radio science (ultrastable oscilator incorporated in telecom system)
		ultrastable means 10^-14.

This doesn't leave much room for payloads which are totally unrelated
to the  mission of the spacecraft.  In addition, the power will come
from a radioisotope thermal generator, and the whole space craft will
be about 2 feet in diameter, with no booms, which means there will be
strong gamma-lines from Pu-239 and associated schmutz in the
background, which tends to reduce sensitivity somewhat.

It would still be nice, and our group here at Goddard is looking
in to it.


Nah, let's reserve rec.sports.idiots for people who POST
obvious flamebait, like yourself.

If someone posts something as controversial (not to mention
idiotic) as what Austin posted in a widely accessed newsgroup,
someone should challenge the statement.  There is a school
of thought that suggests that silence = consent.  Whereas
this idea may not apply to everything in life, it certainly
SHOULD apply to a forum of public discussion, which r.s.b.
is.

If you've been reading r.s.b. lately, you'll find
that even elementary school children have had access
to our postings, alibet in an edited form.  It's making me
think a little more carefully about some of the things I post.

In conclusion, if someone like Austin wants to post his drivel
in some obscure newsgroup that I don't read, fine.  He's got the
right to rant, rave, and drool all he wants to in the name
of free speech.  But if he drools in a newsgroup that I read,
then I will support the right of anyone to provide rebuttal
to his drooling.

Now, of course, you don't have to read any of this.
And if you want to cut down on flames, then

DON'T POST FLAMEBAIT!
(You don't have to respond to flames, either.  Saves cyberspace)


I am looking for a text/reference that will include pinouts,
description, and functionality for just about any IC made.
Does such a text exist?  Are there docs on the Internet that
reference IC's?  It would be a great idea if each major
IC manufacturer made available to the public an anonymous
FTP site with all it's data books in the form of text files.
(ala RFC style).  This would save time and money for the
IC manufacturer since a text file costs nothing to send
around the world via internet and since most users of
IC's
are found in the internet anyway.

Are there any books available for purchase that reference
(as many as possible)?  Or am I going to be stuck obtaining
a zillion databooks from the manufacturers (those little
phonebook-type books that are obsoleted every couple years)


   As opposed to Universal or Catholic or "FourSquare Gosple". I think that
   the Greek Orthodox Church would take high offense at your misuse of the
   word. Your version of Christianity is neither mainstream nor bible derived
   you make claims of bible-centricity that are not derivable soley from the
   Bible.  About six-seven months ago, you claimed that your primary objection
   to the LDS was that "our" doctrine was not bible-derived, And now this
   (and other) claims can be shown, are also not bible interpeting bible.

	Simple truths... oh for example?

       "paradise exalted to heaven"

	paradise wasn't equal to heaven and _now_ it is? Yet you claim that
 	peeple can not be exalted to heaven, nicht wahr?

	When I read the story, I found that  "Abraham's Bosom" wasn't so much
	a place, but somewhere the rich man could see and talk to Abraham?

	Gee this is fairly close to what the LDS call spirit prison, and what
        you have called false doctrine...

    [ vers deleted reproduced below quoted from the SunSpot Gopher Archive ]

   This part is _not_ supported from scripture, nor does it support your
   claim that the "paradise" where Christ descended was exalted.

   Making such claims on this little "evidence" ignores the witness of the
   scripture

   Using this to argue that paradise or spirit prison, is now changed from
   a Pre-Easter postion to post-easter by God postion is not supportable.

   Makeing such a claim requires more evidence than you have given here...

  Yes, and your reasons are in general not supported by any direct reading
  of the scriptures. You have demonstrated that you claims to scriptural
  "proof" need to be cross-checked. The referencs that you supply often do
  not support your postion, if they are read in the context of the scripture.

	How about that those who have been in paradise, and have accepted
	the gosple will be judged of Jesus Christ, and then return to the
	presence of God. Is that somehow different from your expressed view
	that the paradise spoken of (or "Abraham's Bosom")
	Should we go back and discuss your view on why the Angle of the Lord
	is the Lord again... ;-)


Joachim Martillo writes

If you were to substitute the word "Jew"/"Jewish" in this posting where you
see the word "Muslim"/"Islamic", switch Joachim and Mohammed's names around,
and then repost this, you would get a flood of messages attacking the author
as an anti-semite. And rightly so. The author of this crap is a racist, pure
and simple. He obviously has no qualms about being open with it, either,
unlike some other Arab- and Mulsim-bashers on the Net.

Now, I for one, am not going to look at Joachim's posting and infer from it
that all Jews think this way. Sure, there might be some, but this view is not
a part of Judaism, and it is stupid to believe that all Jews' minds are this
twisted. However, some Muslims might look at Joachim's flame as a
reaffirmation of their worst fears about Jews: that they all hate Arabs and
are racists.

For this reason, I am alarmed that not more Jews on the Net have spoken out
against what Joachim has said. They have the chance to possibly change the
anti-semitic views of some people on the net, to show them that all Jews do
*not* hate all Arabs and Muslims, just like all Muslims do *not* hate all
Jews. Yet they are missing that chance. Remember, to many people, silence
implies consent.

Peace.
--


:-)

I can just imagine it.  The mother is wheeled into the labour ward.  After
delivery a government agent steps up to read the baby its rights...
	"You have the right to remain silent.  If you give up this right anything
	you say may be taken down and used in evidence against you."

	"Waaaaaaaaah"

--
Anthony Shipman                 "You've got to be taught before it's too late,
CP Software Export Pty Ltd,      Before you are six or seven or eight,
19 Cato St., East Hawthorn,      To hate all the people your relatives hate,
Melbourne, Australia, 3121       You've got to be carefully taught."  R&H


Does anyone know of a program for the PC that
will take AutoCad DXF format files and convert
them to a raster format, like PCX, GIF, etc?
Thanks in advance....
				ED


Here's a suggestion for the logical argument FAQ.  I don't think it's covered,
though the fallacy probably has a better name than the one I used:  How about
it, mathew?

INCONSISTENCY AND COUNTEREXAMPLE

This occurs when one party points out that some source of information takes
stand A, which is inconsistent with B.  There are two variations in which B is
either a mutually-agreed-on premise or else a stand elsewhere from the same
source.  The second party fallaciously responds by saying "see, the source
really does say B, it's right here!"; this reply does not refute the allegation
of inconsistency because it does not show that the source _only_ says B.

Example of the first type: "The Koran says unbelievers should be treated in
these ways.  We can both agree these are immoral."  "The Koran clearly says in
this other passage that unbelievers are not to be treated that way."

Example of the second type: "There are two Biblical creation stories."  "You're
wrong, since the Bible clearly describes the creation as [description]."
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)


                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This doesn't melt plastic, at least it hasn't melted the plastic
bottle that I bought it in yet.  Maybe I'd better go check that
bottle, its been sittin' awhile -:)


*********************************************************************

That's cool; I wish everyone had the smae kind of names; the
world would certainly be a better place!!


  This might be illegal without a very specific Presidential declaration
or even a change in law. In general (sic), U.S. military troops are not
permitted to be used for domestic policing operations.


    What do you accept as a fact --  the roundness of the earth (after
all, the ancient Greeks thought it was a sphere, and then Newton said
it was a spheroid, and now people say it's a geoid [?])?  yourself
(isn't your personal identity just a theoretical construct to make
sense of memories, feelings, perceptions)?  I'm trying to think of
anything that would be a fact for you.  Give some examples, and let's
see how factual they are by your criteria (BTW, what are your
criteria?).

    "Gravity is _not_ a fact": is that a fact?  How about Newton's
and Einstein's thoughts about gravity -- is it a fact that they had
those thoughts?  I don't see how any of the things that you are
asserting are any more factual than things like gravity, atoms or
evolution.

    In short, before I am willing to consider your concept of what
a fact is, I'm going to have to have, as a minimum, some examples of
what you think are facts.


Quite right, your batteries should be perfectly alright and retain
most of their charge if drained and dried well, but I'd throw out the
electrolyte and buy some more when you need it.

     And before anyone says I'm wrong, remember that new batteries almost
always come ready charged and dry, and they are perfectly OK even after
several years' storage at the shop.


    Is there a Chicago Cubs mailing list??  If so, I'd like to join.
Any help appreciated....


Good point, I'd overlooked that. The Eclipse has a 3 point mount, 1 at
the rear and 2 at the front, and it's very stable on the FJ. I have seen
some with harnesses that mount to the sides of the tank, and that would
be a real problem on the FJ.


A person I know, belonging to a research lab of a rivate
company, claimed to me during a priavte conversation that, given the
equipment in his lab, he could crack a Kerberos ticket in 15 minutes to
an hour. He had access to rather powerful DES hardware, but not of an
extraordinare kind, I believe. The attack was possible because of the
amount of known plaintext in the ticket, which itself constitutes a small
message. This was two years ago.
DES is no longer usable for encryption of really sensitive data. For a
lot of purposes, however, it is still very adequate.


And it is not Hirschbeck's job to help Gant with any of these difficulties.
If Gant can't gather his concentration for whatever reason, that just makes
him all the more meat in the batter's box.  The umpire's job is to
maintain flow of play.  Gant is not entitled to time to regather his
faculties.

Nor is anyone else.

Absolutely.  I think it'd be more accurate to say Gant was foolish.

If a disputed strike call is ample reason for a timeout, games would last
about nine-fifteen weeks, if Jack Morris or Dave "Whiner" Stieb were
pitching.  A disputed strike call is not sufficient for a time out.
Suck it up, get back in the box, and never badmouth the blue.  They're
not going to change their mind, and you're just going to come across
as a pinhead, which won't help you with the borderline calls.

FTR - I never speak to umpires when I don't know them personally, nor
do I glance at them, or react to calls.  As a result, I think I get more
than my fair share of borderline calls at the plate, because I have a
rep of having a good eye.  (Actually, there are a lot of negative
connotations that go with that rep, including copious questions about
my masculinity, party affiliation, and sexual preference.)

Irrelevant.  He was wasting time THEN.

1.  Because it's not his job.

2.  Because setting the precedent of cutting slack THERE can easily
    extend to those 3 hour games.  (Kind of like the phantom DP.)

Gant hurt himself, and the Braves disrupted the game.  Your biases are
exposed, and I'm sitting here defending umpires and the SF Giants,
which is like Phyllis Schlafly defending Gary Segura, Jack Kevorkian,
and the Swedish Abortion Team.

I believe Terry said the magic word.  There are some truly quick ways
to get tossed from a ballgame.  For a primer, email me.

Good ways to get tossed from a game:

1.  Ask Ken Kaiser if he got his money back from Nutri-System.
2.  Kiss Rich Garcia on the lips, and say "Hi, Honey, I'm Home!"
3.  Goose Eric Gregg.
4.  Ask Bruce Froemming if his parents had any children that lived.
5.  Get Naked.

(Source: The Greg Spira Book of Diamond Ettiquette, as told to
 Peter Gammons.  1991, Collier Press.)


In Turkish Genocide Apology <9304261739@zuma.UUCP> as scribed by its servile
dolt sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) we read a response to article <1993Apr26.
175246.24412@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) who

[EP] This has been discussed before, by several people, on this net.  The
[EP] statement is attributable either to Hajj Amin al-Husseini, former Grand
[EP] Mufti of Jerusalem - and the leader of the Palestinian death squads
[EP] during the 1948 war, or to one of his chief henchmen.

[(*] In Russia General Dro (the Butcher), the architect of the Turkish
[(*] genocide in WWI, was working closely with the German Secret
[(*] Service. He entered the war zone with his own men and acquired
[(*] important intelligence about the Soviets. His experience with
[(*] the Turkish genocide in x-Soviet Armenia made him an invaluable
[(*] source for the Germans.[2]

What a fool! For the above to be true, [which it is not] the WWI Russian
General Dro must have worked from his grave to assist x-Soviet Armenia.
Soviet Armenia became ex-Soviet Armenia in 1991 and Dro died in 1958! Then
Dro would have to travel back in time, while dead, from 1991 to WWII to help
Nazi Germany!


   You might try the rec.models.rockets newsgroup.  Interesting stuff,
some of it should probably be classified as artillery.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Macedonia said yesterday it had neither requested or needs such
forces.

This is sort of like sending the National Guard to Bel Air when
the riot is in South Central!

Obviously, Clinton is again trying to make policy for image purposes
in America rather than to try to deal with the real problem and
assume a share of responsibility for the problem.  He obviously
didn't even consult with the Macedonians...he was just looking at
the map of the former Yugoslavia for the safest place to put
American troops so he could say to the Europeans...hey, look, we
have troops on the ground in the former Yugoslavia too...now let
me bomb so I can make it look like I am doing something in the
American media.

The problem is that the blue berets in Bosnia are dead meat if
Clinton starts bombing, but Clinton doesn't have the courage to
ask that the blue berets leave, because then he becomes primarily
responsible to the Bosnian policy of the UN and the allies.
Clinton wants to have his cake and eat it too...he wants to feel
free to use American military power for the sake of domestic
US politics and his domestic image, but he doesn't want to assume
the primary international leadership role in the UN and among
the allies, like Bush, for all his faults, did in the Gulf War...
because with leadership comes responsibility, and Clinton seems
to want to retain the Europeans as scapegoats.

Clinton wants to leave the Europeans in charge and responsible,
but wants to freelance on the side...and if his freelancing gets
too hot, he wants to be able to cut and run...the American public may
be easily fooled...European leaders aren't.