...

I have seen it used in an Orthodox church once, although I can't recall why.
I found it odd, to say the least.  Also, I object to the statement that the
Orthodox DELETE the filioque from the original form of the Creed.

The creed originally did NOT contain that phrase, and it is not present
in the Greek original, which hangs by my desk.  Not intending to start a
flame war.  We didn't need to delete what wasn't there.

Larry Overacker (llo@shell.com)
--


RIDING"?            >>

Here in Louisiana the State Sign is "CAUTION - SUB-STANDARD ROADWAY".

 ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====----


Wm Hathaway comments;

I agree that the desire for beauty is valid, but I think your desire to
impose your vision of beauty is not.  You mention the age-old desire to
somehow get up there, but ignore the beauty of the actual achievment
of that vision.  You mention the beauty of a very dark sky, not impeded
by the effects of humans, but ignore the beauty of the as-dark-as-can-be
sky that is only visible from space, a vision that we, or at least,
our descendents, may one day be able to see, in part, because of efforts
that others call ugly.  One day, I hope, humans will be able to look out,
not upon half the heavens, with only nature-creted lights, but upon all
of the heavens, with no lights.  If advertising in space can help us reach
that goal, it is no less beautiful for the way we reach it, than the
'pristine' sky of yesteryear (or yester-century), which is totally
unreachable.  One of the original conceptions of beauty in wetsern
sculpture was a human form, in the effort of striving to reach a goal.
I don't think there's any reason to believe that modernity has changed that,
just because it has changed the way we strive.

BTW, there are places that people haven't fouled.  Sometimes they make
it better.

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk   \\ As the radius of vision increases,
18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ the circumference of mystery grows.


Ok, so in my ongoing search for a sport utility, here's the latest;

Toyota 4runner:

	 Small. Small Small Small. The interior of this vehical is impossible
	for a large person. Too bad; it would have been the winner otherwise.

Nissan Pathfinder:

	Very low ceiling. My head hit the roof, Fun on bumps, no? Also has
	a cheap-looking interior.

Isuzu Trooper:

	Class act. This is a really, really nice vehical. Very comfortable,
	handled ok. Has really cool grab handles EVERYWHERE. But it's huge,
	and the engine is a bit too small for it's bulk; also the manual shift is
	weird and kind of awkward. I'd buy this if it were $3k cheaper or 10"
	shorter. But at this size and for this price, no. I kept picturing trying to
	park in in San Francisco. No Thanks.

Chevy Blazer:

	Cheap looking. Small. Not as small as the Toyota and Nissan, but still
	too small.

Ford Explorer:

	This is no sports car, and it's certainly not for the serious off roader.
	But it's big enough to be comfortable without being as huge and heavy as the
	trooper. It's engine has plenty of power for everyday driving, though it would
	be nice if it had a *bit* more. The automatic tranny is pretty nice; head and
	shoulders above my '90 mazda MPV. The steering is not as tight as I'd like,
	but it's acceptable. The two door has easy-to-enter back seats (Easier to get
	into, in fact, than the driver's seat of the 4runner!) and with a 10" shorter
	wheelbase and the easier availability of a manual tranny, (Yes, I'm a manual
	shift biggot, I admit it...) it's the one I'm thinking of buying.

	So, that said, is there anyone out there who has one of these and hates it?
	Anyone had any major problems? Heard any horror stories?

	Also, any reason to buy the ford over the mazda Navajo, both being essentially
	the same vehical?

			Thanks-

	-Karl


How did the Leafs turn it around???

I couldn't get the Leaf games on the weekend in CA.

Did the Leaf defense wise up overnight?
Did the Leafs get in the slot or
was it just "fluke" goals in a goalie duel?
Did the Wings turn off the jets or muscle?
What gives here?

I caught game 1 on satellite.  I figured my Leafs were washed.
This is a _major_ turnaround.   Very few predicted this.
How, how, how did it happen?

Wing and Leaf perspectives welcomed!


I just got a bug report and a fix for this exact problem from
fisher@iscp.bellcore.com (Greg Fisher):

He isolated the problem a proposed a workaround which seems precisely
correct.  Here is the new implementation of XmpTableNewProposedLayout
which will be released with the next update in 5 weeks:

Xmp/Table.c:

void XmpTableNewProposedLayout( tw )
    XmpTableWidget tw;
{
    XmpTableConsiderSameSize(       tw );
    XmpTableProposedColsAndRows(    tw );
    XmpTableQueryParentForResize(   tw );    /* query only, no resize */

    /*
     * Since we only made a query, we *should* still need to continue.
     * However, Motif is broken so that we actually may already have
     * been resized.  In that case, the proposed layout is already
     * forgotten, so we should just quietly exit.
     */
    if ( tw->table.resize_status == RSdueToRequest )
    {
        XmpTableMakeColsFitQueryWidth(  tw );
        XmpTableMakeRowsFitQueryHeight( tw );
        XmpTableGetProposedChildSize(   tw );
        XmpTableSaveProposedLayout(     tw );
    }
    /* else the resize has already been done.  Our proposed layout would
     * have been forgotten in the process.
     */
}

The XpTable the fix is identical, except of course for the names:

Xp/Table.c:

void XpTableNewProposedLayout(  tw )
    XpTableWidget  tw;
{
    XpTableConsiderSameSize(       tw );
    XpTableProposedColsAndRows(    tw );
    XpTableQueryParentForResize(   tw );    /* query only, no resize */
    /*
     * Since we only made a query, we *should* still need to continue.
     * However, some manager widgets are broken so that we actually may
     * already have * been resized.  In that case, the proposed layout
     * is already forgotten, so we should just quietly exit.
     */
    if ( tw->table.resize_status == RSdueToRequest )
    {
        XpTableMakeColsFitQueryWidth(  tw );
        XpTableMakeRowsFitQueryHeight( tw );
        XpTableGetProposedChildSize(   tw );
        XpTableSaveProposedLayout(     tw );
    }
    /* else the resize has already been done.  Our proposed layout would
     * have been forgotten in the process.
     */
}

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Smyth				david@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov
Senior Software Engineer,		(818)306-6193 (do NOT use v-mail yet!)
CCCP, X and Object Guru.		office: 525/C165
Jet Propulsion Lab, M/S 525-3660 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"That Sun Windows thingy, what's it called?  You know, its
	really awful.  X?  Motif?  That's it - Motif! Yuck!"


I once heard an arguement from a xtian friend similar to this.
"Christianity is a Higher Logic.  Athiest like u will not be able
to understand it.  Your atheist logic is very low.  Only thru faith can
we understand the Higher Logic in God".

So I asked him, "So what is this Higher Logic?"

His answer, "I don't know."

This, & the posting above highlights one of the worst things about
xtainity.  It is abundantly clear to both atheists & xtains that
their believe is both illogical & irrational.  Their tactics, therefore:
to disregard logic & rationality altogether.  Silly excuses such as
the ones above and those such as, "How can u trust science, science
was invented by man!", only goes to further show the weakness of
their religion.

In my country where xtainity was and still is rapidly growing, xtains
never try to convert people by appealing to their brains or senses.
They know it would be a fruitless act, given the irrational nature
of their faith.
They would wait until a person is in distress, then they would comfort
him/her and addict them to their emotional opium.

Never in my life had I met a person who converted to xtainity coz it's
"reasonable".  Rationality has no place in xtainity (see xtian arguement
against "reason" above).

--

The UnEnlightened One
------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
                  |
Tan Chade Meng    | The wise man tells his wife that he understands her.
Singapore         |
cmtan@iss.nus.sg  | The fool tries to prove it.
                  |
------------------+--------------------------------------------------------

--


Does anyone know where I can find a code which would take concave
polygons and break them up into a set of convex polygons?

Thanks,


A quick search of the index at mac.archive.umich.edu shows the following as
available by anonymous ftp from that site:

/mac/util/developer/diagnosticsoundsampler.hqx
   9     7/24/90    BinHex4.0

   That "chord" you hear when you push the start-up on your Mac II
   means more than just "I'm on". it's passed it's internal test.
   This utility explains what the various sounds stand for (i.e.
   various stages of ram testing...)


Could an atheist accept a usage in which religious literature or
tradition is viewed in a metaphorical way?  Of course: this is
essentially what we do with Homer, or with other concepts such as
fate, luck, free will ;-)...  However, there remains the question of
whether the religious literature of -- say -- Christianity is a
particularly *good* set of metaphors for the world today.  It's also
entirely unclear, and to me quite unlikely, that one could take a
contemporary religion like that and divorce the metaphoric potential
from the literalism and absolutism it carries now in many cases.


**********

Hitachi CD player (needs cd spin motor) $30 shipped

  JoYSTICKS..

	an IBM/apple joystick three fire buttons
	apple joy stick (//c //e)
	kraft track ball  make offers..

coleco vision items:

	two working Consoles w/ working controllers in great shape
	one roller ball controller
	two Super ACtion conrollers
	one 'standard' joystick

games:
	SA baseball
	SA rocky
	SA football

VIc 20 and C64 with powersupplies and RF modulators... make an offer

Vic20 Catridges:  Raid on Fort Knox - Omega Race

******

Early 80's Epiphone Acoustic guitar
spruce top.. mohogany back, sides and neck

adjustable bridge, plays very nice

small hole in side for jack (had a pickup at one time)

$175 + shipping

******

Yamaha CS-5 ANalog synthesizer

Three octave keyboard

VCO - single oscillator range from 64' to 2'

Tone sources - Saw tooth, square, noise and external sound

VCA - can be modulated

VCF - Cut off, resonance, LFO MOD, envelope generator depth

pitch bend slider, CV in and out, trigger in and out, external
tone source in...  the keyboard is in perfect working order and
is colored black and white

$150 + shipping

**********
DRUM stuff..

North heavy Duty hi hat stand $45
	older stand... but definately in working shape.. could
	use a little clean up.  comes with clutch and felts, etc..

Pearl bass drum pedal with felt beater $20

honer cymbal stand $15 (needs some work on cymbal stem)

Zildjian 20" Ride cymbal  $55
	main line zildjian... older ride cymbal

Ludwig snare stand $10
	okay snare stand.. NOT like a remo though ;)

shipping extra.. please email

if you have questions about anything, please email me


    James Madison, Federalist Paper 41:

    "It has been urged and echoed, that the power ``to lay and
     collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts,
     and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the
     United States,'' amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise
     every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common
     defense or general welfare...

    "No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which
     these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a
     misconstruction.  Had no other enumeration or definition of the
     powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the
     general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection
     might have had some color for it; ...  But what color can the
     objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by
     these general terms immediately follows, and is not even
     separated by a longer pause than a semicolon?  ...  Nothing is
     more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and
     then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars.
--


On a related note (since UPS lost my Chain Wax and I'm still using PJ-1/Goo),
I found some great stuff to clean chain spooge of wheels.  It's called
Goo Gone and cleaned the spooge off my rear wheel faster than the Simple
Green cleaned the bug guts off my headlight.  Wonderful stuff.  I recommend
that we officially delcare it a DoD Wonder Spooge (tm) product.


None of the SUNs, DECs, or RS6000s I've used have turned off the
monitor automatically.


 >there's no problem. The Feds don't care whose phone instrument is used, just
 >that the conversation is by the suspect on the tapped line. They get the
 >serial number, get the keys, and they are in business.

  So, you admit that Clipper opens the doors wide for the following scenario:

  FEDS: We need the keys to Joe Blow's phone.

  ESCROW AGENT: Joe Blow?  You have a warrant to tap his line?

  FEDS: Well, no, but we have a warrant to tap Carlos "Slime-Devil" Gonzales'
     line, and our tap shows that Mr. Gonzales is using Mr. Blow's phone.


Yesterday, a friend of mine got a new driver for his card that more
than doubled the speed... Naturally, besides being a tad jealous (same
machine -- different cards), it got me thinking... What if I am using a slow
driver? Wouldn't that be _horrible_ ? :) So netlanders, I need samples of
your collective experience (sic) -- Do you proud owners of a Trident 8900C
video card w/ 1MB VRAM have tried out more than one driver fro MS Win 3.1
which? which is the fastest? Not to be selfish, and to give you a motive
for responding, I promise I am going to collect all the answers, and the
actual drivers (provided u give me a site to get it from or uuencode&mail)
get the WinMarks using PC Magazine`s WinBENCH and... post the results here...
I am interested in SVGA drivers only (plain VGA users should run the Win
driver, or this is what I 've heard -- dont flame me!) Particularly
800x600x16 and/or 800x600x256 (that should cover the majority of SVGA users)
Well, what are you waiting for? hit that r or f or whatever...
All input welcome -- so are money and Sun SPARCstations...
Thanx in advance...


Fine. I'll buy from George. GEORGEEE!!!!

That assumes I can't weasel out a cooperative venture of some sort (cut me a
break on the launcher, I'll cut you in on the proceeds if it works).  Only the
government pays higher-than-list price.

Unless you're Martin Marietta, since (as I recall) they bought out the GD line
of aerospace products.

If MM/GD does it as an in-house project, their costs would look much better
than buying at "list price."  Does anyone REALLY know the profit margins built
in to the Titan?  C'mon. Allen is telling us how cheap we can get improved this
or that...

Oh please.  How much of a profit do you want?  Pulling $100-150 million after
all is said and done wouldn't be too shabby.  Not to mention the other goodies
I'll collect in:

	a)  Movie & TV rights (say $100-150 million conservatively)
	b)  Advertising       ("Look Mommie, they're drinking Coke!")
	c)  Intangibles	      (Name recognization, experience & data
				acculumated)

If you want lean, fine.  A $500 million prize would be more than adequate for a
prize.

Maybe Wales would be kind enough to define what a company would consider
a decent profit.

If you want R&D done, you'll have to write in R&D clauses.  I suppose you could
make it a SBIR set-aside :)


I am looking for a copy of the first World Wrestling Federation album in
Record format.  Will pay $10 for a good condition record and original
album jacket and inserts.  The album I am looking for has a picture of
a bunch of the wrestlers ina recording studio front and back with the
good guy wrestlers and the bad guy wrestlers making faces at each other.
Songs include 'Land of a thousand dances" or something like that.


I'll leave questions 1 and 2 to be answered elsewhere, but on question 3)
something in the noos today might be an example of the restoration might be.
Namely, that the Clinton Administration is considering asking the UN to
establish a police force for Haiti.

I didn't hear any thing that said that the current Govt. of Haiti asked for it,
nor is there any real precedent (barring Somalia) for the UN getting involved
in internal conflicts.

That might also answer question 2). The neo-colonial countries are a diffuse
lot - the UN (Security Council).

And while I am at it, I'll take a stab at 1) - the new colonialism, as defined in
most articles I have read, would entail something of the nature of Trusteeship
under the UN Sec. Council, democracy, aid, education, free-markets, free press
and then out for the colonialists, now assured that there is a "civilized"
country that they have left behind.

Note I don't support this idealized concept, simply because I think it is a
lot of hogwash.

--
Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

If The University of Illinois shares these views, I'd be surprised.
They aren't that smart generally -:).


The major problem with this analysis is that it ignores age.  Even if
Morris were performing as well as Clemens right now, and were likely to
this season, nobody would trade Clemens for Morris straight up because
Clemens has more of his career left.


Here are the standings after game 2 of each of the divisional semi-final
series.

	- Andrew

USENET Hockey Playoff Draft Standings

Posn	Team				Pts	Rem	Last Posn

1.	Sneddon Scorers                 77	25	(1)
2.	Arctic Circles                  75	25	(75)
	Northern Lights                 75	25	(33)
	Threepeat                       75	25	(19)
5.	fighting amish                  74	25	(161)
	Team Elvis                      74	25	(11)
7.	chris roney                     73	25	(33)
	Myers Marauders                 73	25	(--)
	the dead ducks                  73	25	(11)
10.	Les Poteux                      72	25	(--)
	Sludge                          72	25	(75)
	Paige Faults                    72	25	(33)
	Sam & His Dogs                  72	25	(33)
	The Borg                        72	25	(2)
	Hurricane Andrew                72	25	(4)
	Lewey's Lakers                  72	25	(102)
	Einstien's Punk Band            72	25	(9)
18.	Homesick Hawaiian               71	25	(4)
	Test Department                 71	25	(11)
	Samuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta)   71	25	(127)
	Mopar Muscle Men                71	25	(33)
	Jerky Boys                      71	24	(4)
	GB Flyers                       71	25	(19)
24.	Neural Netters                  70	25	(102)
	give you money monday           70	25	(9)
	Bill McGreer                    70	25	(--)
	Fugazi                          70	25	(33)
	Detroit Homeboy                 70	25	(11)
	Bloom County All-Stars          70	25	(54)
	DehraDun Maawalis               70	25	(75)
31.	Great Expectations              69	25	(4)
	PURDUE RICKS PENS               69	25	(19)
33.	frank's little wankers          68	25	(33)
	Jan Stein                       68	25	(33)
	Allez les Blues                 68	25	(--)
	Goaldingers                     68	25	(75)
	suds                            68	25	(19)
	weenies                         68	25	(33)
	A.P. BURY                       68	25	(19)
	Bruce's Rented Mules            68	25	(4)
41.	Mind Sweepers                   67	25	(33)
	Mike Burger                     67	25	(11)
	Go Flames                       67	25	(--)
	garryola                        67	25	(33)
	The Mulberry Maulers            67	25	(75)
	LIPPE                           67	25	(102)
	Flamming Senators               67	25	(19)
	Big Bay Bombers                 67	25	(102)
	Milton Keynes Kings             67	25	(33)
50.	Seppo Kemppainen                66	25	(19)
	Freddy Beach Rockets            66	25	(--)
	The Campi Machine               66	25	(19)
	j's rock'em sock'ems            66	25	(75)
	Sean Forbes                     66	25	(19)
	Tapio Repo                      66	25	(11)
	zachmans wingers                66	25	(19)
	Zipper Heads                    66	25	(11)
	Canadian Gladiators             66	25	(75)
59.	Teem Kanada                     65	25	(33)
	New Zealand Leafs               65	25	(54)
	Tiger Chung Lees                65	25	(54)
	Rangers Of Destiny              65	25	(33)
	make beliefs                    65	25	(54)
	Dave Wessels                    65	25	(2)
	Norway Killerwhales             65	25	(54)
66.	Force 25                        64	25	(75)
	trevor's triumph                64	25	(75)
	Commitments                     64	25	(141)
	Skate or Die                    64	25	(19)
	Dog's Hog's                     64	25	(33)
	Delaware Destroyers             64	25	(33)
	Craig team                      64	25	(11)
	Rangers Blow                    64	25	(54)
	Debbie Bowles                   64	25	(19)
	Mak Paranjape                   64	25	(141)
	Comfortably Numb                64	25	(127)
	Loaded Weapons                  64	25	(54)
	Rob Del Mundo                   64	25	(54)
	Robarts Research Rebels         64	25	(54)
	Fuzzfaces Galore                64	25	(19)
	Houdini's Magicians             64	25	(54)
	La Coupe Stainless              64	25	(141)
83.	Cluster Buster                  63	25	(33)
	Lets Go Pandas                  63	25	(102)
	Tequila Shooters                63	25	(141)
	Steves Superstars               63	25	(102)
	Reksa fans of Oulu              63	25	(127)
	Habs Playing Golf               63	25	(75)
	Chris Stevens                   63	25	(--)
	On Thin Ice                     63	25	(102)
	Oakville Brothers               63	25	(33)
	Jason team                      63	25	(102)
	smithw                          63	25	(102)
94.	Anson Mak                       62	25	(173)
	Skriko Wolves                   62	25	(102)
	all the kane's men              62	25	(75)
	Danielle Leblanc                62	25	(127)
	Team Awesome                    62	25	(19)
	weasels                         62	25	(141)
	Alf's All-Stars                 62	25	(75)
	Zippety Doodah                  62	25	(75)
	Kramer George and Jerry         62	25	(75)
	Rev's Rebels                    62	25	(75)
	Yan Loke                        62	25	(75)
	Lamp Lighters                   62	25	(102)
	littlest giants                 62	25	(75)
	Mr Creosote                     62	25	(75)
108.	oceanweavers                    61	25	(161)
	Great Scott                     61	25	(141)
	Bobby Schmautz Fan Club         61	25	(127)
	IceMachine                      61	25	(102)
	Hat Trick Mike                  61	25	(--)
	The promise land                61	25	(33)
	Daves knee jerk picks           61	25	(102)
	Doug Bowles                     61	25	(102)
	Holsteins SFB                   61	25	(54)
	Lemon Pepper Grizzly Bears      61	25	(54)
	Flying pigs                     61	25	(127)
	Les Raisins                     61	25	(102)
	RENEB                           61	25	(102)
	Gilles Carmel                   61	25	(102)
122.	Boops Bets                      60	25	(127)
	Timo Ojala                      60	25	(127)
	Rednecks from Hockey Hell       60	25	(33)
	gee man                         60	25	(127)
	FRACK ATTACK                    60	25	(54)
	triple X                        60	25	(127)
	Ulfie's 16 brothers             60	25	(--)
	buffalo soldiers                60	25	(54)
	Shigella                        60	25	(102)
	Ottawa Bearcats                 60	25	(127)
	Whiters                         60	25	(141)
	Monica Loke                     60	25	(102)
	Lance Hill The Boston Bruins Fa 60	25	(33)
135.	Mann Mariners                   59	24	(141)
	New Jersey Rob                  59	25	(102)
	Frasses Faceplants              59	25	(141)
	Doug Mraz                       59	25	(102)
	Muller n Walker                 59	25	(54)
	High Stickers                   59	25	(141)
	Legzryx                         59	25	(161)
	Beer Makes Me An Expert         59	25	(75)
	Gail Hiebert                    59	25	(127)
	Dean Martin                     59	25	(161)
145.	marcs maulers                   58	25	(127)
	brians bloodletters             58	25	(75)
	Van Isle Colonists              58	25	(141)
	Charlie Cook                    58	25	(--)
	Bjorkloven                      58	25	(54)
	Schott Shooters                 58	25	(102)
	Bjoern Leaguen                  58	25	(75)
	The Eradicators                 58	25	(141)
	Lord Stanley's Favourites       58	25	(141)
	But Wait Theres more            58	25	(127)
	Stacey Ross                     58	25	(141)
156.	Heikki Salmi                    57	25	(54)
	The Ice Kickers                 57	25	(75)
	Chapman Chaps                   57	25	(161)
	The ^&#@$#$% Rangers of 1940    57	25	(54)
	The Underwriters                57	25	(54)
	beam team                       57	25	(176)
	Dave Hiebert                    57	25	(75)
	Canuck Force                    57	25	(176)
	Evan Pritchard                  57	25	(161)
	Controversy Warriors            57	25	(54)
	JFZ Dream Team                  57	25	(141)
167.	San Jose Mahi Mahi              56	25	(141)
	go go gagit                     56	25	(161)
	goddess of fermentation         56	25	(54)
	bure's blur                     56	25	(141)
	Louisiana Psycho Killers        56	25	(141)
	East City Jokers                56	25	(102)
	Tampere Salami                  56	25	(176)
	JOE'S A CRAK HEAD               56	25	(102)
	Grant Marven                    56	25	(75)
	Mark And Steve Dreaming Again   56	25	(75)
	Pens Dynasty                    56	25	(161)
178.	Chip n Dale                     55	25	(189)
179.	Cherry Bombers                  54	25	(161)
	Brian Bergman                   54	25	(189)
	The Goobmeister                 54	25	(75)
	Oz                              54	25	(141)
	Arm & Hammer                    54	25	(161)
	gax goons                       54	25	(176)
	Daryl Turner                    54	25	(102)
186.	E.I.S                           53	25	(141)
	BOSSE                           53	25	(75)
	Myllypuro Hedgehogs             53	25	(161)
	Chapman Sticks                  53	25	(176)
	Hillside Raiders                53	25	(185)
	Knights on a Power Play         53	25	(173)
192.	Eldoret Elephants               52	25	(185)
	Sparky's Select                 52	25	(176)
	Sluggo's Hosers                 52	25	(173)
	butt ends                       52	25	(176)
196.	lisa's luggers                  51	25	(197)
	Stanias Stars                   51	25	(161)
198.	Ken De Cruyenaere               49	25	(176)
199.	Gary Shiff                      48	25	(--)
200.	JUKURIT                         47	25	(176)
201.	Montys Nords                    45	25	(192)
	Jane's World                    45	25	(185)
	Rolaids Required                45	25	(189)
	Martin's Gag                    45	25	(194)
205.	Equipe Du Jour                  44	25	(196)
206.	Arsenal Maple Leafs             41	18	(194)
	the ALarmers                    41	25	(185)
208.	Killer Kings                    38	25	(192)
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation     | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253


   > I'm wondering if I can tote my American touch tone phone around with me
   > to Sweden and Germany.  It's DC powered, and I can buy a special adapter
   > for that in Europe.  The question is if the general electronics work
   > the same.  I can buy a different wall plug and refit it (I'm sure I'd
   > have to), but would that do the trick?

   Two things to watch for:
   In Germany (and I think the same holds for Sweden) only some
   of the connections can handle tone dialing, so make sure the
   phone can be set to pulse dialing.

Most (if not virtually all) swedish exchanges can handle tone
dialling. Many older electromechanical exchanges have been modified
accept tone dialling.


Wayne:

Look for these advertised in sailboat supplies catalogs and sail-related
magazines (eg. SAIL ...).


Secaris is reasonably inexpensive ($6.00 Cdn for a tube), and is indeed an
over the counter medication. Why it does not appear to be available in the
US, I don't know. It's manufactured in Montreal.

It's a nasal lubricant, and is intended to help nosebleeds that result from
dry mucous membranes.

From some of the replies to my original posting, it's evident that some
people do not secrete enough mucous to keep their nose lining protected
from environmental influences (ie, dry air). But I've had no responses
from anyone with experience with Rutin. Is there another newsgroup that
might have specifics on herbal remedies?

But thanks to all those who did reply with their experiences.


I went to a place called American Car Care Centers to check my car for A/C
leak.  After "checking", I was told that there is a leak in the compressor
seal.  At the end, in addition to the labor for the check, I was charged 12
dollars for a pound of freon, although they evacuated my A/C afterwards
because of the leak.  First, is it fair for him to charge me for a pound of
freon ($12 plus tax) ?  Second, what can I do about this if this is unfair ?


Seeking North Carolina beach rental.  Desire house for two
families (4 adults, 3 kids) for one week in late June/early
July.


THE WHITE HOUSE

                    Office of the Press Secretary
______________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release                             April 20, 1993

                       REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
                IN PHOTO OPPORTUNITY WITH VACLAV HAVEL

                           The Oval Office

5:00 P.M. EDT

	     Q	  Mr. President, President Havel is here for the
Holocaust Museum opening, and you toured the museum last night.  All
this focus on the Holocaust, how does that weigh on your decision-
making process as far as Bosnia is concerned?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  Well, I think the Holocaust is the most
extreme example the world has ever known of ethnic cleansing.  And I
think that even in its more limited manifestations, it's an idea that
should be opposed.  You couldn't help thinking about that.  That's
not to compare the two examples.  They're not identical; everyone
knows that.  But I think that the United States should always seek an
opportunity to stand up against -- at least to speak out against
inhumanity.

	     Q	  Sir, how close are you to a decision on more
sanctions on Bosnia?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  Well, of course, we've got the U.N.
vote.  Ambassador Albright was instrumental in the U.N. vote to
strengthen the sanctions and they are quite tough.  And we now are
putting our heads at the business of implementing them and looking at
what other options we ought to consider.  And I don't have anything
else to say, except to tell you that I spent quite a bit of time on
it and will continue to over the next several days.

	     Q	  Following your meeting today, sir, are you any
closer to some sort of U.S. military presence there?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  I have not made any decisions.

                                 * * *

	     Q	  President Clinton, why have you decided to meet
with Mr. Havel?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  Well, I'm just honored that he would
come and see me.  I'm glad he's here in the United States for the
dedication of the Holocaust Museum.  He is a figure widely admired in
our country and around the world, and a very important person in
Europe, and a very important person to the United States.  So I'm
hoping that we'll have a chance to talk about the new Czech republic
and what kinds of things we can do together to support the causes we
believe in.


Thanks for the responses so far. I hope that I have
sparked some thought (which is more my intent than
to restart one of the Reformations).

I'm just going to tug on two threads:

In Message-ID: <May.10.05.07.21.1993.3479@athos.rutgers.edu>
db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes,

I was simply observing that as a non-Jew, I am not in that community
which might be bound by such a decision (I don't know much about
the Council of Jamnia, but I have heard that it is not well-attested
historically). 'Faithless' has nothing to do with it, and I prefer
not to speculate about motives.

I wish the Dialogue_with_Trypho were a real transcript of a real
dialogue,, but I think it a fictional effect on Justin's part.
Putting that to one side, Justin's point may be evidential; one
would want to know- 'which books?'

Perhaps the reformers were traveling in all the light (MS evidence)
they had. Let's stick to the issues. Again, I prefer not to speculate
about motives. One would need quotes from Luther, Calvin, etc. to
evidence this 'preference'.

-----
In Message-ID: <May.9.05.38.22.1993.27327@athos.rutgers.edu>
wagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner)

Is this the principle: 'Any (BC) text not quoted by Christ cannot
be counted as Scripture' ? Think well about this- Job, Ruth...?

 		These is a logically invalid *a priori*.
 		Besides, we are talking about OT texts-
 		which in many parts are superceded by the NT
 		(in the Xtian view). Would not this same
 		principle exclude _Ecclesiastes_?
 		This principle cannot be consistently applied.

Dave W. answers:

Meaning what? Do you affirm the principle (that the D.c's can be
excluded since they contain 'false doctrine') or do you deny it?
If affirmed (as is implied in your statement) how does one determine
that doctrine X is false? Do you affirm every teaching in _Ecclesiastes_?

If so, it may be a test that cannot be applied. The Orthodox
faithfully believe that Psalm 151 is canonical. How can my
faith say 'Not!' ? All I hear here is the *a priori* I mentioned
before.

This is contrary to fact.

Can this be elevated to a principle? How is 'spiritual quality'
measured? I'll take the 'spiritual quality' of most of Sirach over
Joshua or Chronicles, any day.

What can I say? You believe what you believe- I'm asking for
a consistency check. I don't see that the books were added- in any
construction this formulation begs the question. No one can validly
ask me to 'have faith' that these books are noncanonical.

Dave Davis, ddavis@ma30.bull.com
These are my opinions & activities alone

QOTD:


Well,

    You can always try and find a PC dealer who sells guaranteed memory.
I work at a company growing at 40% a year, we have on order hundreds
of computers per year.  It never fails, machines come in with BAD SIMMS.
Now for those of you who are wondering just WHY your PC or MAC just crashed
I can tell you I always thought it was the incompetent ass who wrote or
designed the software.
    Well, I don't think that way anymore, especially with the results I
have gotten with replacing BAD SIMMS in my own machine and others at work.
The moral to this story is to MAKE SURE your memory is good.  I would
be willing to bet lots of you out there have SIMMS with either soft
or hard errors on them and you don't even know about it, but every once
in awhile those bad SIMMS just makes your life hell.

I just got plain SICK of dealing with peoples complaints that thier machine
just crashed and they lost thier work.  In case your wondering, or if you
haven't already guessed I work in an IS department.  Service is a do or die
perogative in this line of work, so the MORAL IS:  HAVE YOUR MEMORY TESTED
with a SIMM hardware tester...and NO I don't mean the simple little software
programs that you can run in your machine.  SIMMS are complicated little
beasts and they needs special hardware to test them effectively.

If any of you are interested in getting one of these nifty little devices
which are not cheap, write me back.  They make life a little bit easier, and
besides they pay for themselves in a short time from the loss of productivity
people would have to deal with when thier machine commits suicide.


The Shannon limit for voice lines is likely somewhere around 25kbps.
We are rapidly approaching it. The fastest affordable full-duplex
modems currently on the market are V32bis, which is 14400bps.

CELP manages to sound decent at 4800 bps.

In theory, if you built a speech recognition system that turned voice
into ASCII, and a perfect synthesis system on the other end that
sounded just like the person you were speaking to, you could get it
down to the information content of the speech.

With various kinds of LPC, you can get it down to 2400 bps or prehaps
even less, at which point it sounds horrible.

4800 bps is more than adequite for our purposes.

--
Perry Metzger		pmetzger@shearson.com


Funny, I thought the numbering scheme for both Lexus and Infiniti was
related to sticker price more than anything else, i.e. Infiniti G20 (around
20K), Q45 (around 45K), Lexus ES250 (RIP) (around 25K), Lexus ES300 (around
30K), etc.

Is there a conspiracy theory there?

Spiros


I just signed up for this group, so I hope I'm not missing something
in a FAQ, but I'm looking for a good introduction to the mathematics
of encryption -- particularly DES and Public-Key, though others would
be interesting also.  Probably a good library could help me out, but I
thought it might be even easier if I could obtain a nice article
entirely electronically (besides, I have this rather *rational* phobia
of libraries for reasons stemming from this "dissertation" thing
hanging over my head :-)).
	I have a basic knowledge of mathematics... number-theory is a
bit unfamiliar to me, but I've had a few graduate-level math courses
in some other areas; anyway, I'm not a complete novice to the field.
So probably something aimed at a basic graduate introductory level
would be about right.  Something, anyway, which is more specific than
"a really big prime number is generated to code the message".
	If someone knows of a good text available by ftp (or gopher),
or would like to email me one... please let me know.  I'll probably keep
reading this group; but it would be nice if you would email me at the
same time, so I don't miss it.

Thanx, Lulu...


Applied Engineering used to sell a 3.5" disk drive for the Apple IIgs that
read and wrote 1.6 meg on a HD disk.  I wonder if the drive would work on a
mac, since I'm using my old 3.5" drive from my IIgs on my IIsi now.  Just a
thought.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

 /~~~~~~~\
\_____    |
      |   | TTTTTT EEEEE VV     VV EEEEE     |
      |   |   TT   EE     VV   VV  EE        |
 /---/    |   TT   EEEE    VV VV   EEEE      | Steve Liu                    |

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.software
Subject: Re: Formatting more than 1440K - Possible???
Summary:
Expires:
References: <C64J1n.Hpq@csulb.edu>
Distribution:
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Keywords:

Applied Engineering used to sell a 3.5" disk drive for the Apple IIgs that
read and wrote 1.6 meg on a HD disk.  I wonder if the drive would work on a
mac, since I'm using my old 3.5" drive from my IIgs on my IIsi now.  Just a
thought.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

 /~~~~~~~\
\_____    |
      |   | TTTTTT EEEEE VV     VV EEEEE     |
      |   |   TT   EE     VV   VV  EE        |
 /---/    |   TT   EEEE    VV VV   EEEE      | Steve Liu                    |


No, if you put a conductor in a changing magnetic field, it produces a voltage.
The two ways you can do that with a permanent magnet is to move the magnet or
move the conductor.  The slow shifting of the Earth's magnetic field isn't
really significant, especially when you consider how weak the Earth's magnetic
field is to begin with.

Well, it would require generating an incredibly large magnetic field to repel
the Earth's magnetic field (as a magnet can repel another magnet).  Of course,
this force only works in one direction, and the magnetic field generated has
to be unimaginably powerful.  Magnetic repulsion drops off as 1/r^3, and the
earth's magnetic field on the surface is already very weak.  It would require
some sort of unknown superconductor, and special nonmagnetic construction.
And seriously hardenned electronics (optical computers, perhaps).  And the
physiological danger would be significant (due to the iron content in our
blood, among other things).  In other words, forget it.

I missed out on the "dragless satellite" thread, but it sounds totally bogus,
from this little bit.


Not an astute observation -- this is a straw-bullpen.  The lefties,
Stanton & Mercker are strong, and Wohlers is down learning a new pitch.
The bullpen is fine, probably superior.

Also false.  Gant, Nixon, Justice, Hunter, Blauser present a decent enough
offense.  EVERYONE is slumping (except Blauser), not just Pendleton.

BTW, what is the story with Brian Hunter?  Is he in the dog house?


<Stuff deleted>

MINOR? You put unsignalled lane change in a MINOR category? Now I know
who these guys are...


I would expect that CD-ROM software would not even need copy protection.
As the program on a CD-ROM would not fit onto a hard-drive, and it is
impossible for the average (and even not-so-average) user to write to a
CD-ROM, copies of the software (that still work) could never be made.

Hmmm.. now that I think about it.. with a creative TSR, maybe
disk-swapping could be used to simulate files on a single disk. You
would need a tonne of disks though.


I am considering adding to my 386 system equipped with a 130meg Maxtor
HD, a second Maxtor 245 Meg HD.  I assume this will not be a problem.
However, I remember reading somewhere that to do this, you needed to
reformat your original drive ?  Is this true ?  If so why ?  My drive is
full and I really don't like the idea of to re-installing everything
from floppy!!

    Please E-mail me, or post to the group

        --Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Tancsa             INTERNET:#1  mdtancsa@watarts.uwaterloo.ca
Waterloo, Ontario                #2  mike.tancsa@canrem.com
CANADA
__________________________________________________________________

---
 þ RoseReader 2.10á P004555 Entered at [CRS]


I am looking for a suitable UART for a project.  What I require
is a stand alone device (i.e. not cpu controlled) which will
receive 1200 baud RS232.  Also a nice extra would be a received
data buffer.  Please reply with any info you have.

Thanks,


My 610 is working like a charm.. In fact, if 610's are flaky, I would consider it a great computer even if I had to return a couple to Apple to get a good one.


Well, you're going to have to practice, but you're getting
the hang of it.  Soon we're going to have to give you a new
nickname.  Try these on for size:

Tammy "Lucky Seven" Healy
Tammy "Pass the falafel" Healy
Tammy "R Us" Healy
Tammy "Learning by Doing" Healy

Maddi "Never a Useful Post" Hausmann

--
Maddi Hausmann                       madhaus@netcom.com
Centigram Communications Corp        San Jose California  408/428-3553


BULLSHIT. How many lakes have ceased to be able to support life from
purely natural pollution? Man has already done this to scores of lakes.
Also, much of the "degredation" you cite was done by cows and pigs.

And why do think there are so many cows around?

Could it be.......cause people raise them?


You have one. Minimize the print manager and drag a file to it and it will
print it. You need to associate file extensions with such things as the
notepad for it to do this though.


Okay.  I have my copies of all relevant gun-control bills.  I'm mad as hell.
I want to get involved.  I want to join the battle to protect our Second
Amendment Rights.

Who do I write?

Who should I concentrate on writing my comments to?  The actual author of the
bill?  The supporters of the bill?  My Congressman?  My Senator?  Newspapers?
Magazines?  All of the above?

I don't believe that I will change the world, but at least I am going to throw
a few punches.  Can any of you offer any advice or suggestions to me as I now
begin to get involved here?

Thanks for replying directly to me via e-mail.


The VL-IDE Adapter can be much faster then the normal IDE, it depends on the
drive you use and the board you use. I am using a NoName VL-IDE I/O Contr.
it is tested under coretest with 2.000 kb/s using a cheap Seagate 3196 and nearly
4000 kb/s using a WD-Caviar 2340, you have figure out the jumper setting on the
controller to get reliable diskaccess, fastest setting gets 4600 kb/s under Coretest
but does not work reliable. You have to shadow the adapter BIOS to get the fast
speed. I haven´t used a VL-IDE-Cache controller yet, but it might speed up twice.

						dieter


ok.  so what's an "exhaust bra"?  i'm guessing it's not a fabric thing that
straps to the pipes...  does it go over the chin fairing/lowers in some way?
i usually don't ride with the lower plastic...


I recently took apart my color Sony TV to clean the volume pushbuttons and
when I put the beast back together, the flyback whine got much louder.

Is this easy to fix? Which part is resonating? I have heard rumors of a
spray that will fix the noise.  Is this a simple thing for a TV repairman
to fix?

	Thanks,


A friend of mine uses Windows 3.1 to do most of her work.
Unfortunately, she has very bad eyesight, and we haven't
been able to figure out how to change the default font
used by the system and application menus, or the font used
by the Help program (what use is hypertext if you can't
read it?) to make it legible to her.

If anyone knows how to increase the size of these fonts,
of any software package that makes Windows more accessible
to visually handicapped people, please let me know.


Organization: Compact Solutions, Canberra ACT Australia

I have a floppy drive which has developed "General failure" errors. (It's a Teac 1.44Mb 3.5" drive).

I took it out of the machine and noticed it was very dusty. I used a high powered air can to blow all this dust out and it's quite clean now.

However, it didn't help the problem.  I've also identified that when the machine boots (and the drive seeks for a boot disk), the head movement during this process is now approximately half the length of the original time.  What I mean is the period when the drive light comes on and the heads move from their retracted position out to the track containing the boot sector.

Is there anything more I can do to try and save this drive? I'd prefer not to shell out $100 for a new one if I can help it.

Thanks!

Cheers, Ben
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben J. Elliston
Bachelor of Engineering (Computer Engineering)                     \\\//
University of Canberra                                             (@ @)
                                                             ___ooO_( )_Ooo__
Email:      compsol@fir.canberra.edu.au                              V
Also:       ellib@cbr.cpsg.com.au
UUCP:       ..!uunet!munnari!sserve.adfa.oz.au!compsol!root
FidoNet:    3:620/262
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It is ironic that in any post that criticizes langauge ability, the critic
invariably makes a mistake himself ("english" is generally written "English".)

Oddly, I do not see that I have contested any of that. Perhaps you, with
assuredly greater "english" ability can explain, in tiny words that I might
grasp their meaning, precisely WHERE I infer that you have said any of those
things?

No Mr Fisher, you should place the burden of proof on the one who makes the
allegation in the first place. You do not. Perhaps you might explain why that
is? As for the email route, Mr Fisher, you might have tried that yourself.


	Has anyone used DCE threads with an X Client?
	Is it possible to have one thread listening for incoming RPCs
	while another processes X Events? How do you set something
	like this up?
					_ Atul
					(apara@ctp.com)


To anyone with experience about Honda Civic (EX or DX) or Saturn SL1:

I would be interested in knowing how reliable these cars are, how expensive
they are to own and operate (parts, maintenance, gas, insurance), if the
dealers are good, and if they actually live up to their economy image.

Another question:  what would I expect to pay for a Civic EX coupe with
automatic, air, and an AM/FM radio?

Mail to the address below or post to this group.

Thanks,

Rob


It sure did!

I have; and all the above teach me that accurately perceiving reality
is a tricky business -- _not_ that there's no reality.

--
Mark Pundurs


First off, use some decent terms if ya don't mind.  This is sci.med, not
alt.sex.

Secondly, how absolutely bogus to assume that "American's are just too hung
up on the penis....blah,blah".  I think most American's don't care about
anything so comlicated as that.  They just think it "looks nicer".  Ask
a few of them and see what response you get.  Others still opt for
circumcision due to religious traditions and beliefs.  Some think it is
easier to clean.  Still others do it because "Daddy was".

Dont' be so naive as to think American's are afraid of sexuality.


I don't know much about Hydrophones, so I'm looking for any information
that will help avoid problems I haven't thought of! I would like an
inexpensive hydrophone and amplifier with tape (line level) outputs...
something like Edmund sells for $250. They also sell just the microphone
(hydrophone) head for $24, but how does one construct the enclosure?
Any information would be greatly appreciated, Thanks!


I presume you are just going to use IDEA for the session encryption and
transmit the session key with RSA?

David R. Conrad		"No his mind is not for rent/To any god or government"


I have been studying the Bible now for about a year.  I love it,
but I am not very familiar with the different denominations, or
traditions, or common beliefs of various christian groups.
I have heard various people (outside this news group)
describe *idols* such as power, money, material
possessions etc.  These things are worshiped in some sense I
suppose, but I never really gave idols much thought.  Until now...

I have been reading the postings in this news group (which I
just found a few days ago), and I have a question...  First, I'm
not trying to question anyone's belief or try to push my views
on anyone else (I haven't been at this long enough to have
any views other than I cannot get to heaven by being good,
I must understand that Christ bore my sins on the cross so that
I could be saved and I need to repent, i.e. realize that
every time I sin, I might as well stick a sharp stick in
Christ's side because He took the punishment for my sins,
when He died on the cross).

In my studies, Mary never really comes up.  I know who she is,
but that's about it.  It seems to me that a statue of Mary
could be considered an idol?  Do people pray to statues of Mary?

It sounds like educated christians (more educated than myself
I'm sure) believe Mary was sinless?  Wow...  I hoped to spend
the summer convincing myself (one way or the other) about
Tongues (I'm reading "Charismatic Chaos").  I guess I'll study
Tongues in parallel with reading this news group.  Any help you can
give me will be appreciated.

    -------------------------------------------

[I don't think the issue is so much that people are more educated than
you (though it may well be that they are), as that they come from a
different tradition than yours.

This is a discussion between Catholics and Protestants.  Catholics
generally believe that Mary was sinless.  Protestants do not.  The
issue comes down to different sources of authority.  Protestants
generally limit themselves to the Bible as a source of doctrine.
Since this isn't in the Bible (except in passages that no one would
understand in this way if they didn't already believe it), Protestants
don't accept it.  Catholics see continuing revelation through the
Church, though they believe the results are consistent with the Bible.

I interpret your posting, not as a call for yet another argument about
whether the Catholic Marian devotions are idolatry (an argument I am
not prepared to see newed here), but as a sign of being interested in
learning about traditions other than your own.  Catholics are of
course a major one, but by no means the only one.  I generally
consider the major traditions to be Catholic, Orthodox, and
various subsets of Protestantism.  Within Protestantism, it's a matter
of how finely you want to cut things.  These days I think the major
division is between those who accept Biblical inerrancy and those
who don't.  There are also a number of major historical traditions,
but in recent decades distinctions are tending to blur.  I'd
identify the major Protestant traditions as:

  Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican (they're sort of halfway between
  Catholic and Protestant), Wesleyan, Baptist, Holiness, Pentecostal,
  Church of Christ

But there are a number of others.  Historical distinctions tend not to
be so important among the liberal churches anymore, and I think
current trends in society and the Church are also tending to make
conservatives seen themselves as allies from a general "evangelical"
perspective.  But differences among these various traditions are still
quite marked.

I think the best introduction to these issues is to read a good book
on church history.  Anyone who wants to understand the church really
needs to understand how we got where we are now.  A church history
will normally show you where each of these traditions came from, and
give a feeling for their nature.  Unfortunately I'm away from my
library at the moment, so I don't have anything specific to recommend.


Home speakers:

o NHT (Now Hear This Inc.) Model II floor tower speaker system.
  The Model II is a pair of 3 way design with a 3/4" tweeter,
  6.5" mid-range, and two 6.5" woofer for low bass.
  Impedance is 8 ohms (minimum 4 ohms), the cross-over
  points are 100Hz and 3.2 KHz. Frequency response is rated
  at 40Hz to 22KHz +/- 3db.  Rated efficiency is 87db.
  Power rating is between 35 to 200 watts per channel.
  Black finish.  Magnetic shielded perfect for surround sound
  front speakers or HiFi audio speakers.
  retail $850.00 at Macys, asking $500 obo, a year old,
  rarely used, excellent just like new condition.

o Bose 301 book shelf speakers, black, perfect condition, like new,
  Paid $350.00, asking $220.00 firm

o B&O (Bang & Olufsen) Beovox CX100 Satellite speakers, white.
  Brand new in box, paid $450.00.
  $350.00 obo

o Yamaha center center
  paid $125, asking $80.00 firm, just like new

o Yamaha rear channel speakers for Doby Surround Sound
  paid $150, asking $99.00, just like new

Car speakers:

o Boston Acoustic 861 seperates (car audio speakers), 6" woofers
  with seperate tweeters and crossovers.
  Brand new in box, never been installed, $259.00 at Good Guys
  Asking $199.00 firm


ESPN must have some very poor marketing people.  They are only concerned with
featuring players (i.e. Mario) than featuring good competitive hockey.

I've heard that this is because most of their market is East Coast and hence
would prefer the Wales stuff.  Also, don't expect Canadian teams on ESPN.


Nonsense! I wasn't asked if Larry O'Brien should trust Nixon with his keys,
but whether I would.

David


  just a point, i suppose, if open mind means believing anything can be true
or we can't for sure know what is definitely true, i'm happy to not be open
minded.  if, however, open mindedness means being respectful and tolerant
towards other beliefs, respecting the rights and intelligence and wisdom
of people of other beliefs and giving equal time to alternative ideas, i
try my very best to be open minded.  just a thot in passing.... :)

  not being married, i cannot say too much to you, but from my perspective
having mutually exclusive faiths would be a big enough roadblock for me in
considering marrying someone.  making it much bigger than it is?  i suppose
that depends on how serious each of you is in your beliefs.  lukewarm atheists
and christians for whom religion is of nominal importance probly would feel
the issue isn't very big.  i suppose the more important your beliefs are to
each of you, the more important the issue is.


  Some comments deleted for bandwidth (God knows, we need it... :))

  Ok, Roger, here's a question for you.  Say you are running an expansion
team.  You don't HAVE a team at the moment, but the draft is coming up.  Who
are you going to pick, guys who have won the most WS rings, or guys who
COULD contribute the most to your team.  Say the Reds were dumb enough to
not protect Larkin, and the Jays didn't protect Alfredo.  Who would you
pick?

    (I can't believe I'm getting involved in this... :)

  John


Article #61214 (61317 is last):
From: arnolm2@aix.rpi.edu (Matthew Richard Arnold)
Subject: DX50 vs DX266
Date: Wed Apr 21 19:55:12 1993

Would someone be willing to explain to me the 486DX 50MHz is not more
popular than it is?  I would think it would be just as fast, if not
faster than the 486DX 66MHz for certian applications.  Plus, a 50MHz
motherboard would seem better if you had any plans on upgrading the
chip in the future.  I must be missing something, since everyone is
buying the DX2 66...  Many adds don't even mention the DX 50.

 Thanks a lot,
   -Matt

End of File, Press RETURN to quit

Yes its realy simple, no one makes a mother board that runs the
bus at more than 33MHZ....Sam


: I cant get through to the author of rtrace. His site is inaccessible
: can he upload the new version somewhere else please?


What is the copyright status of this data?  Are there restrictions regarding the
uses they can be put to?

Kaveh


Gee, since you ignored the entire substance of my substantial
post, you got a lot of nerve claiming that I don't understand
what's being talked about.

Respond to the previous post or shut the fuck up.  You're
really annoying.

--
Maddi Hausmann                       madhaus@netcom.com
Centigram Communications Corp        San Jose California  408/428-3553


<Due it seems to Sun's crapulous organisation of the X libraries and includes,
<most standard (GNU and other) software won't compile out of the box (well, tar
<file).
<
<Right now I'm trying to make ghostview. It complains it can't find X11/XaW/...
<so I just linked (ln -s) the files from /usr/openwin/share/include/X11 and
<now the ghoddam thing _still_ complains it can't find them.
<
<I still haven't been able to compile xdvi, not no way.
<
<Has anyone _ever_ managed to get _anything_ normal to compile on a Sun
<(SunOS 4.1.3 and OpenWindows 3)? What's the trick I'm missing? I've even
<tried hard copying all the relevant files into the "right" places and
<every time, there's some bit missing or it refuses to find it.

Sounds like you didn't load the support for those libraries when OW3.0 was
loaded.  The Xaw support was missing from OW2.0 but added in 3.0.


I writing a program that uses the parallel port. My problem is that I need to
generate an interrupt when the ack line is pulsed. I can get this to occur
once, but am unable to generate succesive interrupts.

Can someone suggest how I may resolve this problem.


I have a 1974 Honda CB360T which for most of my purposes runs well.
However I expereince a severe power drop at cruising speeds under load.
That is, on a mild upgrade @ 50 mph in 4th or 5th I'm lucky if I can
hold speed.  If I try to add throttle much past 5000 rpm, power drops
drastically.  Put simply, under load, the engine won't rev past 5000
rpm.  The top third/half of the throttle range is dead.  Standing still
the engine runs fine up to red line (9-10K).

Other phenomenology: at about the point that power loss kicks in, the
engine becomes a little wavery.  That is, at a steady throttle the
engine speed goes up and down slightly.  The bike has about 13000 miles
on it and is in good tune, at least until it starts to balk.

I would appreciate any suggestions as to what's ailing the poor beast.
My thoughts run toward clogged jets and/or improper spark advance.  I'm
hoping it's not something more drastic since the bike's not really worth
the hassle of any major engine work.

                                        Thanks,


The Stacy Koon-Lawrence Powell defense!  The decisions of Janet
Reno and Bill Clinton in this affair are essentially the moral
equivalents of Stacy Koon's.  Reno and Clinton have the advantage
in that they investigate themselves.


I recently set Windows 3.1 up on my 486DX-33 VLB system, and I didn't
notice until last night that I don't have the 386 icon in my control
panel.  I don't remember Windows setup asking me about 386 enhanced
mode (whether I wanted it or not).  Now I've got a program that I
just bought (Aldus Freehand 3.1) that is telling me that I should be
running Windows in enhanced mode (looks like I'm running in standard
mode).

How can switch to enhanced mode without the little icon thingie?  Are
there some issues involved with VESA LB systems which cause Windows
to not want to give you enhanced mode?

Thanks for any help!!


Sigh.   That's music to my ears, after all the complaining Lois did
about the seat on my BMW...

I've found that the phrase "sack of potatoes" works pretty well in
describing to a passenger how s/he should act.

On a long ride with my ex-girlfriend Nancy, I would notice her
drifting off every so often (we were droning down highway 101 to LA).
I probably wouldn't have been aware of this if she hadn't been in the
habit of squeezing my butt with her knees to hold on.   Good advice.

			       _MelloN_


:Chronic persistent hepatitis is usually diagnosed when someone does a liver
:biopsy on a patient that has persistently elevated serum transaminases months
:after a bout of acute viral hepatitis, or when someone is found to have
:persistently elevated transaminases on routine screening tests. The degree of
:elevation (in the serum transaminases) can be trivial, or as much as ten times
:normal. Other blood chemistries are usually normal.
:As a rule, patients with CPH have no clinical signs of liver disease.
:Chronic active hepatitis can also be asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic, at
:least initially, and that's why it's important to tell them apart by means of
:a biopsy. The patient with CPH only needs to be reassured. The patient with
:CAH needs to be treated.

I just went back to the chapter in Cecil on chronic hepatitis.  It seems
that indeed most cases of CPH are persistant viral hepatitis, whereas
there are a multitude of potential and probable causes for CAH (viral,
drugs, alcohol, autoimmune, etc.).  Physicians seem to have a variety of
"thresholds" for electing to biopsy someone's liver.  Personally, I think
that if the patient is asymptomatic, with only slight transaminitis and
normal albumin and PT, one can simply follow them closely and not add the
potential risks of a biopsy.  Others may well biopsy such a patient, thus
providing these samples for study.  It would be interesting to see if
anyone's done any decision analysis on this.


And maybe they do.  But without somebody to set the time that doesn't
do them any good.

Humph.  Deleted there was my list of non-religious reasons one might
want a moment of silence for a dead classmate.

Maybe everyone doesn't want to be silent for teachers to give their
pompous non-religious speeches in assembly.  I know I didn't.  So?

Please provide documentation that opposing only things that are
actively religious (e.g. actual prayer, "Amen" after a moment of
silence, mandatory classes in religion) and not things that have
possible but uncertain religious implications (e.g. moments of
silence, having the Bible on the shelves during reading period) is not
a way to prevent a state religion.


The Quantum BBS number is 408-894-3214.  Good luck.

Les


Excerpts from netnews.comp.windows.x: 15-May-93 Re: COLORS and X windows
(A.. John Cwikla@morrison.wri (4620)

What I'd like to see is this scenario:

Each widget, view, whatever, describes it's colors via a palette.
Palettes can be shared and they only contain descriptive information.
They are not directly tied to the object that uses them.  Palettes are
held in the server.  A palette can accomadate, up to, the number of
hardware color cells of color descriptors.

When the input focus is in a particular widget, that widget has access
to all of the colors that are described in its associated palette.  ALL
OTHER WIDGETS, TRANSIENTLY, GET THE CLOSEST APPROXIMATION THAT CAN BE
GENERATED BY A UNION OF THE COLORS FROM THE CURRENT PALETTE AND ANY FREE
COLORS THAT ARE LEFT OVER.

A widget specifies a color for imaging by providing an index (pixel)
into its associated palette.


I must say that I have been a customer of Midwest Micro for over 4
years now, and have been well taken care of on each purchase.
I have had many friends that have bought that same modem and (THEY)
do have some experience with setting up modems, so there have been
no problems in 6 of them that I know of. The fact that your time
to valuable for you to spend on the modem is where you went wrong.
WHY you say because I must tell you of the 12 yes I say 12 PPI modems
that I have had in the past that I was trying to use on my bbs. They
all were junk and were replace 3 times each, to ther point that
I just said forget it and I wanted my money back. PPI's teck even
said that they didn't even repair them. That they just strip the
parts that are good and junk thr rest of the modem.
I think it was more your fault than Midwest Mirco's faulkt...Sam


Could someone please help me. I am trying to find the
address to the TDRS receiving station at White Sands
Missile Range. I am interested in possible employment
and would like to write for information.


The honest answer to your question about Arabs who were expelled
from Jaffa, and/or who fled Jaffa, or anywhere else in Israel, having
the right to return is:  Yes, unfortunately, they have the right to
return.  They may apply for citizenship like any other non-Israeli and
then go to >Jaffa and try to buy their house back from the Jews who now
own it.

	And now a question and answer for you:  Can the Jews who were
born and raised in Hebron, or their descendants go back to THEIR homes
in Hebron?  The answer is: absolutely NOT, because they were almost all
murdered by their Arab neighbors - the "palestinians".

	Now, do I think the Arabs should be allowed to even visit
"their" homes in Jaffa?  Hell, no.  Bring back the Jews of Hebron, Petah
Tikva, Jerusalem, Safed, etc. Then, perhaps I would be in favor of Arabs
returning to their Jaffa homes.  However, seeing as no Arab has yet been
able to bring people back from the dead, I'd say that's out.

With all the hope in the world,

Nissan Ratzlav-Katz


I forgot to mention that the stats are for games through 4/20.


Often times (most recently on this list in the last few days) I've
heard the passage from revelation:

	"...whoever adds to the sacred words of this book...whoever removes
	 words from this book..."

	 used as an arguement against the deutercanonical books.

	 I feel this is ridiculous for two reasons:

	 1.  They weren't added later by the Catholic Church; they were
		*always* part of what was considered inspired scripture.
		(This has been dealt with in previous postings...no reason
		to repeat the info.)

	2.  It is more likely than not that when St. John (or whomever) wrote
		the book of Revelation WHAT WAS THEN CONSIDERED SCRIPTURE was
		** NOT ** the same thing you and I are holding in our hands!

	If one takes the translation of "this book" in REV 18:22 (or somewhere
	around there) to mean "all of scripture", then all of us are likely
	holding something that is in violation of this command.

	It is impossible to exactly date the scriptures, even the N.T. ones
	(they didn't like to date their letters, I guess).  I really wish I
	had my bible with me right now to get the facts straight, but I believe
	that several of the N.T. letters, chief among them 2 Peter, have their
	most likely date of composition in the early second century A.D.
		Revelation was almost certainly written durin the reign of
	Domition (sp?), A.D. 80-96.  Thus it could be argues that we are all
	in sin if we accept 2 Peter as scripture, since it was "added" to the
	book after the composition of Revelation, when we are told to add
	nothing more.


Hey, Clayton, it's me again!  I just love your arguments.  They completely
clinch each and _every_ one of your points!

But then again, that, I suppose, says a lot about how screwed up your are.

Hehe.  I haven't had so much fun since I started blasting christians in alt.atheism!


I wholeheartedly endorse it.

 I have no problem with the

Haven't been to many A's games, have you?

Seriously, I don't mind a baseball game that lasts a long time if it lasts
a long time because there is good baseball being played.  However, I don't
like 3-2 games that take 3+ hours, because there's a lot of dead time going
on in that game.  I don't find anything exciting about watching batter or
pitcher wander around between pitches, or watching the catcher make a slow
walk to the mound, or watching lots of pitcher changes for no good reason
(Whitey Herzog used to be the master of this; the game could be way out of
reach, and he'd still be making switches for platoon advantage).

I want to see the game, not people standing around.  I don't really enjoy
watching NFL football games in person, for example, because there's so much
dead time (you don't really notice how much dead time there is if you watch
it on television, because they're busy showing you replays).  I don't like
that college basketball games have so many time outs at the end of the game
(the NCAA has made some moves to try to alleviate this problem for next
year: they're going to stop the clock after made baskets late in games next
year, and they're going to a 35 second clock).

There's also a difference in how tolerant I am of long games if I'm
watching them on the tube, and if I'm going there in person.  For me, going
to an A's game has become a major commitment of time, one that I'm not
willing to make that often:  the length of their games is costing the A's
revenue from me.


    Falcon Microsystems of Landover MD, the sole Apple-authorized
reseller to the federal government, has similar "open market" prices.
The upgrade is too new to be on General Services Adminsitration schedule
yet.
						Joe Gurman


Someone asked me if I there existed an init that removes the dialog
   "you're gonna disconnect all apletalk users " or something
like that, when the powerbook falls asleep.

He said he was sure that such a thing existed, and he thought it was
freeware. Can anyone help me out with this ?


I guess it's  kind of an aesthetics argument.

I can see the solar arrays being expensive,  and  there could be
contingencies where you would be throwing away brand new
solar cells,   but  it seems so cheap compared toa shuttle
mission, i wouldn't think they would bother.


I posted that document (forgot part 1/6 etc) but it was more than a summary,
it was a complete technical description of the protocol. It can be ftped
from simtel or from wuarchive.wustl.edu in mirrors/msdos/naplps

Why not write a NAPLPS decoder for your choice of platform and release the
code to the net? Then other willing souls can help port it to other platforms.
NAPLPS was designed for this type of online interactive graphics much the
same as X, but while X is intended for high-bandwidth network connections,
NAPLPS was optimized for low bandwidth modem connections.

I'm sure you will receive other suggestions but look at it this way. If you
wanted to provide a full network connection to Linux over a modem would you
use SLIP/PPP or would you invent some new way? Most people would say that
SLIP/PPP exist and are reasonably well designed protocols, so lets just
implement them. I see it the same way with NAPLPS. It is an existing, well
thought out, extensible protocol for online graphics, so why not implement
it.

If you need any advice on implementation, just e-mail me. I am currently
getting a beta version of my CorelDraw to NAPLPS converter working well
enough to release it by May 15. If you or someone else does not get going
on a freely available NAPLPS decoder, then I intend to do it after I get
a my conversion program out of beta, and get a couple of other things done.


But you stated that this study was presented in a very accurate and
dependable way.  This is confusing to the issue.

And if you read this title it implies that; gay sex (homosexual sex)
activities are low compared to the general population that they surveyed.

        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well let us quibble- look at the above statement that you posted, I have marked
it with '^^^^^^', IT STATES THAT 1% ARE EXCLUSIVELY HOMOSEXUAL- IT STATES 2% ARE
OR HAVE ENGAGED IN HOMOSEXUAL SEX.

And please not the use of adjective here "HOMOSEXUAL SEX".

Now I stated that if we take 1% as homosexal this is a valid viewpoint.


I never advocated "hiding in the sand."  I'm advocating a peaceful
solution while a peaceful solution is possible.  Unless you want blood on
your hands.

Read the above.

I type corrected.  (:-)

English revolution-> what revolution?  They never had one.
India-> If they could get around their religion restrictions
Mexico-> Point Taken, I forgot about this one.
France-> Napoleon Bonepart would have something to say about this.
Holland-> I didn't know they had one, won't comment because I don't know
enough.

Actually, I consider the issue on topic.  When you start gambling with
fire crackers, sooner or later, somebody is going to lose a hand.

Fine.  Exercise the right to free speech.  That's great!  But don't resort
to armed violence until there's no other possibility.

No.  I believe there are bad cops, and good cops.  There are bad people,
and good people.  (And all that grey inbetween.)

I have had the pleasure of knowing a police officer who did his best to
uphold the laws he swore to defend.  I have also seen what happens when
police power is abused.

Don't generalize in either direction.  It just causes problems.

Me either.  Nice can of worms, ain't it?


Having driven both, and having owned an SC300 for 14 months now, all I can
say is "it depends".  They're both great cars.  In fact, my wife and I
are saving our pennies so we can get her the 300ZX convertible in a year.
The 300ZX handles like a dream, while the SC300 rides like a dream.
Fit and finish on both are excellent, but the Lexus gets the nod in
customer satisfaction.  They're both very attractive, and hideously
expensive.  The resale value of the SC is better than the ZX.  The
300ZX isn't available with traction control, which makes it a handful
on slippery surfaces.


If you want to try a non-toxic solvent, there's one made of citrus that
works very well and doesn't take your skin off in the process.  One brand
name I've used is Citra-Solve, but there are others too.


That's right.  Everyone.  Even infants who cannot speak as yet.  Even
a little child will rebelliously stick his finger in a light socket.
Even a little child will not want his diaper changed.  Even a little
child will fight nap-time.

So far as Jesus saying "everyone":

    A certain ruler asked Jesus, "Good teacher, what must I do to
    inherit eternal life?"

    "Why do you call me good?"  Jesus answered.  "No one is good--
    except God alone."

Ken, the book of Romans states that we are born sinners.  We do
not grow into being a sinner.  We sin because we are sinners.  The
common mistake, even in Christian circles, is to think the reverse
true.    So for as surely as you grew to look like you parents,
you not only inherited their appearance, but also their sin nature.
It goes with being human.


I have a question about the autocheck-boxes in Windows.
Is it a possibility to let the boxes have several different colors at the
same time?

Frode Kvam :-)

--
_______________________________________________________________________________
  _/_/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/        _/_/_/     _/_/_/       _/_/_/_/_/
  _/           _/      _/    _/      _/   _/    _/     _/
  _/           _/      _/    _/      _/   _/      _/   _/
  _/_/_/       _/_/_/_/      _/      _/   _/      _/   _/_/_/
  _/           _/    _/      _/      _/   _/      _/   _/
  _/           _/      _/    _/      _/   _/    _/     _/
  _/           _/      _/      _/_/_/     _/_/_/       _/_/_/_/_/    (C)
_______________________________________________________________________________
  Name:         Frode Kvam
  Univ:         University of Trondheim, dept of informatics
  E-mail:       frode@ifi.unit.no
  Snail-mail:   Lademoens Kirkealle 8
                7042 TRONDHEIM
  Voice:        + 47 7 50 45 06
_______________________________________________________________________________


I've been away for a couple of weeks and have become out of touch with the
latest information on the Diamond Viper Card.  Does anyone know if Diamond
has come out with any Vesa Driver updates lately?  Also, I was wondering
what the latest Windows Driver version is up to now.

				Thanks in advance,
					Dan


How is that possible?  He was on the Albuquerque Leftturns last year.
How could you possibly know what team he would be on if Manny Lee was
on his team last year.  After all, Manny Lee wasn't on his team last year,
so it's complete, unfounded speculation to state that if he was on the
same team as Manny Lee last year, it would have been the team of the
Toronto Blue Jays.  Since he and Lee weren't on the same team, you
cannot possibly objectively state what team they would have been on
if they had both been on the same team.


I quote from the journal, "30 Days In the Church and In the World,"
1992, No. 8/9, p. 29.

Regarding the new draft of the Universal Catechism:

	In procuring the common good of society the need could arise
	that the aggressor be placed in the position where he cannot
	cause harm.  By virtue of this, the right and obligation of
	public authorities to punish with proportionate penalties,
	including the death penalty, is acknowledged.  For similar
	reasons, legimate authorities have the right to impede
	aggressors in society with the use of arms.  The Church's
	traditional teaching has always been expressed and will
	continue to be expressed in the
	consideration of the real conditions of common good and the
	effective means for preserving public order and personal
	safety.  To the degree that means other than the death
	penalty and military operations are sufficient to keep the
	peace, then these non-violent provisions are to be preferred
	because they are more in proportion and in keeping with the
	final goal of protection of peace and human dignity.

As is clearly shown by this excerpt, the Church's teaching on capital
punishment remains today as it has always been in the past - in total
accord with my sentiment that I do not disagree with the use of deadly
force in those cases for which this option is justifiable.

I seek to conform my will to the will of God as expounded by His
instrument of the visible Church here on earth whenever the question
of faith or morals arises.


My disk that had my joystick code that some of you were kind enough to mail
me puked....specifically, I am looking for C code to read the position
of joystick WITHOUT using int15h, i.e. accessing port 0x200/0x201 directly.

I need it in C becaues of memory model considerations.

I only need to be able to read the X and Y position also.


   Wow, look at alllthe pretty puddles!!!!

  Jimmy crack koan, and I don't care, Jimmy crack koan and i don't care, Jimmy
crack Koan and i don't care, Zen Master's gone away.....


Are you in contact with her, is that what she said, or what you THINK
her reason is?

Also, could it be possible that she is not replying because she has
no reply that wouldn't confirm the worst suspicions?  If the suspicions
are way out of pocket, one would think the person would be in there
saying so, and indicating WHY they are out of pocket.  Hiding behind
a veil of secrecy is not reassuring.


 ^^^^^^^
So how does Aerostitch hold up with this procedure?  I'm ordering mine
Monday, May 3.  And I'm happy about it, too.  :-)  :-)

  -Mike


I don't think the issue of whether infants have faith is relevant or not.
Certainly they *can*, as the example of John in utero proves. I find the
translation of Col 2 above odd in terms of the circumcision of christ,
which the KJV and RSV put in terms of Christ's cricumcision which we, in
union with him *participate* in putting off the body of sins of the flesh.

Also, perhaps cor 2:12 is dividing the act of burial with him in baptism,
which can be independant of faith, from the experience of rising with
Christ by faith. Who says both are by faith? This interpretation has the
advantage of explaining those who are faithlessly baptized, for whom their
baptisim is not benefit, but serves to put them into the kingdom nonetheless.

Like the israelites (all of them, children included) who were baptized in
the cloud and in the sea, it was of no advantage because they did not add
to their baptism faith and obedience.

Baptism does not impart faith, nor is it done strictly speaking on the
basis of the faith of the parent, but because of the covcenant promise of
God. It imparts grace, the grace of the kingdom, which can be a
punishement in disguise if there is later apostacy.

Do you teach a child to pray the Lord's prayer? Do you expect them to not
steal? They *can* have faith appropriate to their condition. And in the
new covenant, we shall no longer say: know the lord, for they shall all
know him from the least unto the greatest Heb 8:11.

But also according to Ezekiel 18, God will not hold innocent anyone on the
basis of anyone elses innocense. Thus Jesus could not be our federal head
any more than adam, *IF* that's what ezekiel is talking about. Shall you
make ezekiel 18 contradict the second commandemnt as well?

  >

Ezekiel 36:25-26 indicates that this new heart will be given by God,
in the context of the sprinkling of water in baptism. It is the action of
God puting them into his new order, and not a question of"personal"
faith as such.

But the death that came to all because of sin is not just their personal
death, but the dead state (originbal sin). We are in a covenant of death,
because adam, our federal head gave over his dominion to the devil and death.

While this psalm is figurative in it's language, it is not hyperbolic, and
the one does not necessarily imply the other. There is not other
hyperbolic language in this psalm. What v 5 is likely refering to is
what is symbolized by the OT cleanliness laws (which make intercourse and
childbrith both acts which caus uncleannes and seperation from God). The
whole psalm is in the language of OT ritual (hyssop, cleansing, burnt
offering, etc) David's sin with bathsheba included this element, as he
did not ritually cleanse himself when he should have.

But what was symbolized by the OT ritual was the truth that sin was
passed generationally. That's why the organ of generation had to be
cut. That's why brith was unclean. Uncleanness was death, and all babies
were born dead, and needed to be washed to newness of life, which we have in
baptism today.


=Having read in the past about the fail-safe mechanisms on spacecraft, I had
=assumed that the Command Loss Timer had that sort of function.  However I
=always find disturbing the oxymoron of a "NO-OP" command that does something.
=If the command changes the behavior or status of the spacecraft it is not
=a "NO-OP" command.

Using your argument, the NOOP operation in a computer isn't a NOOP, since it
causes the PC to be incremented.

=Of course this terminology comes from a Jet Propulsion Laboratory which has
=nothing to do with jet propulsion.

Of course, the complaint comes from someone who hasn't a clue as to what he's
talking about.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL


This is stupid.  Won't it cost more to those companies hoping to
serve the gov't and private markets if they DON'T use the same
technology?


SUBSCRIBE XPERT skji@eve.kaist.ac.kr


In <1993Apr24.214843.10940@midway.uchicago.edu> eeb1@quads.uchicago.edu

I already responded to this on one dimension, but afterthoughts cause
me to make another, independent reply.  The problem with a "moment of
silence" is that it is NOT an even-handed way of "allowing" for religion
amongst students in the public schools.  As I noted before, Muslims need
more than a moment of silence in order to perform the prayers they are
required by Muhammad to do.  And (at least Orthodox) Jewish prayer also
has requirements that are not addressed by this.

There is, in fact, a highly selective BIAS towards Christian prayer in
this "moment of silence" shit.  And that is especially bizarre in that
Christian prayer DOESN'T NEED this stuff -- a Christain may pray totally
incognito AT ANY TIME (to some extent, this is true of Muslims and Jews
as well -- what I intend in my first paragraph is that there *are* some
characteristic forms of prayer in *these* religions which DO need special
times and/or behavior, which cannot be undertaken without an observer
being able taking note of it.)

A Christian may pray, at ANY time -- silently and without any trace of
his activity being evident to others.  That may or may not be true of the
other religious traditions amongst us: certainly, these tend to have SOME
forms of prayer that WOULD evidence differences from American/Protestant
"mainstream" religion.

All that a "moment of silence" does is to allow THAT ONE tradition which
doesn't NEED it, to have a "special" place set aside in the public schools.
There is NOTHING in Christian prayer that requires public forms, or rugs,
or phylacteries, or anything else at all visible to the outside world.  A
Christian student MAY (and probably does) pray at innumerable times during
the day, without anyone else knowing it.  [That may also be true of non-
Christians -- I am not claimng otherwise].  In the "moment of silence" it
would STILL be difficult for the Jews to gather and daven, for the Muslims
to do their ablutions and find qiblah to Mecca and engage in the prescribed
forms.  But *of course* Christians can do *their* thing -- and therefore,
the provision is nothing but a disguised attempt to encourage just that.

Luckily, there *is* a strong Jewish presence in this country (and I, as
a Christian, revere some of the Jewish teachers I had in public schools),
and a growing Muslim presence as well.  I can only hope that the political
forces consequent on this will PREVENT the imposition of Christian forms
on non-Christians.

As far as I can see (as a Christian) there is NOTHING in this "moment of
silence" campaign but an attempt to use PUBLIC social pressure to FORCE
children to adhere to a pattern that is biased towards Christianity.  And
as a Christian, I *must* protest such coercion.  For what it's worth, I
suspect that the coercion is not really targeted at the non-Christians --
it is yet another case of FAILURE amongst Christian parents in "making"
their children prayerful, so that they want the public schools to teach
what THEY cannot manage to teach, despite having all the opportunity in
the world to do so.

If you have taught your children to pray, they do NOT need a moment of
silence in school.  If you have NOT managed to teach them, the moment
will only embarrass you.  Give it up.


Yes, the local sheriff stated that anytime he wanted to talk to Koresh, all
he had to do was call him and Koresh would come down.

Full agree with you here.  I think its ridiculous that he did not even talk
to Janet Reno until sometime Tuesday, however, he did talk with Wendell
Hubbel(?).  So who really is the Attorney General????

Hopefully the investigation will answer some of these bizarre questions.


	The "R Us" is not trademarked, but the "Backwards R Us" is, I
believe.

---

  Speaking of proofs of God, the funniest one I have ever seen was in a
  term paper handed in by a freshman.  She wrote, "God must exist, because
  he wouldn't be so mean as to make me believe he exists if he really
  doesn't!"  Is this argument really so much worse than the ontological
  proofs of the existence of God provided by Anselm and Descartes, among
  others?


To encourage the great tradition of Red Sox negativism, I am having a
contest to predict the magnitude of the Sox' fall from their current
heights.  You must decide first, whether the Sox will be at .500 again
at any time during this year.  Then you must predict either:

(1) Their record the first time they're at .500, if they are, or

(2) Their final record, if they stay above .500 the rest of the year.

So Valentine's earlier prediction would go as "13-13" (resend it if you
were serious, Val!).

ESPN pointed out last night that the last Sox start better than this was
in 1952, when they finished 76-78, in sixth place.

So email me your guess, either at "barring@cs.washington.edu" or directly
replying to this post.

Entries close 5 pm PDT on Wed 28 Apr 1993.


That's fine idea, but it only works if the lighting/power company even bothers to supply good light fixtures.  For instance, a power company in Virginia
recently asked a state commission for permission to sell more lights of various
type.  Yet, all of the different fixture that they sold and wanted to sell
were bad designs - one that wasted the light.  Thus, you couldn't even buy
a good light from them.  In most places, to get a good light, you have to
either order it special at high cost or call a store in Arizona.  At some
point, society starts to make rules.  Cars have to pass safety tests.
Companies have to meet pollution standards, etc..  There are two ways to achieve this:  educate the public so that they demand good lighting or force code
down the lighting companies backs.  History seems to suggest that the latter
is more likely to work.

Agreed, so I won't respond again.  It's important for all you spacers out
there to realize that some people will object to various wild ideas that
have been presented.  Just like Congress, it would be best to consult
the astronomers/lovers of the night sky before you try some PR stunt
to boost public knowledge about space.


What is so honorable about placing bombs in passenger airliners,
promising to execute Rushdie, killing 1-2 million people in the
Iran/Iraq war, murdering tourists and persecuting ethinc Christians in
Egypt, massacring Christians in Sudan, harassing Christians in and
barring Jews from Saudi Arabia?  How are paranoid Muslims "righteous
in defending themsselves" in these situations?  Who are they even
afraid of?

Considering that you seem to be posting from central New Jersey, this
is an odd comment coming from you.  I dare you to speak your mind in
the Middle East in any country besides Israel.


Right.

The Branch Dividians were. They believed and trusted so much that it became
impossible to turn back to reality. What you are advocating is total
irreversible brainwashing.


Utopia is a myth (although we can do a lot better than what we have today).
But I think that you must pitch Libertarianism as a progressive agenda
(ie You can do better under our style of system).

I'm flattered by your invitation, but I'm afraid you have the wrong person.
Although I completely agree with your civil liberties agenda, I'm not
in support of your economic agenda. What I DO like about the Libertarian
party is that you guys are so good at shaking up the tired ideas of the
past. I encourage you guys to continue your crusade, but I'm afraid I
can't ride along.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Nothing is as inevitable as a mistake whose time has          Garrett Johnson
 come." --Tussman                                           Garrett@Ingres.com
"The probability of someone watching you is proportional
to the stupidity of your action." - Unknown


[...]
[...]
[...]

"Hey, what the hell do you mean by that?  You suck.  I have a god-given
right to express opinions, carry a gun and to not wear a helmet, goddamn
it. Everything you stand for is STUPID."

You know, Alan, I really like this one.

-----
Tommy McGuire
mcguire@cs.utexas.edu
mcguire@austin.ibm.com


I am posting this for a friend.  PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS ACCOUNT!!!

If you are interested in any of the following, ask for Rob at (510) 521-3147.

Laptop PC: $1200
- 386SX 20MHz CPU
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- 120 MB Hard Drive
- VGA Graphics (32 Greyscale) LCD
- External VGA Port
- 3.5" High Density Floppy Drive
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- External keyboard port
- 2 Serial, 1 Parallel and 1 Expansion ports
- Expansion unit available, which has 2 full-size card slots

Bernoulli Drive: $400
- Dual 20 MB Disk Drives
- 20 MB cartridges (comes with 4 disks)
- External unit

Scanner: $50
- Logitech Scanman


jwindley@cheap.cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley) writes...

[...]

This is curious. I read in _EH_...

"The Lord imparted the gift of knowledge to James the Just, to John
and Peter after his resurrection, these delivered it to the rest of
the apostles, and they to the seventy, of whom Barnabas was one."

			--- Eusebius, _Ecclesiastical History_

It seems that the Lord imparted the gift of knowledge, not that the
Lord imparted secret information.

[...]

I'm afraid that I cannot find this portrayal in _EH_.
I don't see anywhere in 3:32:7-8 where Eusebius mentions that certain
gnostics had the wrong gnosis.

The closest is when Eusebius summarizes Hegesippus' statements,
"...whilst if there were any at all, that attempted to pervert
the sound doctrine of the saving gospel, they were yet skulking
in dark retreats..."

"Favorably interpreted?" Just in looking at two of the four
references that you gave (I have the _EH_ handy, Irenaeus and the
_Clemetine Recognitions_ I will have to look for) I see no room for
such 'interpretations.'

And any such 'interpretation' still falls short of an equivalence to
the Temple Ceremonies.

The links for Jay's using _EH_ for support are: "imparting the gift
of knowledge" = "imparted secret information" = "being given secret
signs and tokens to gain entrance to heaven."  But there is not
enough equivalence between the the ideas for us to be able to call
this "favorable interpretation."  It appears to be closer to
"fabrication."


Your hearing curve sounds a lot like mine (thanks, Uncle Sam!).  I've been
wearing Miracle Ear canal aids for about 5 months now and I find them to be
acceptable.  They are molded to the shape of your ear canal, and tuned to
your hearing curve.  They are comfortable to wear and almost invisible, if
you're worried about that (although if you're currently wearing behind the
ear models, that's not an issue).  The cost:  I paid $1200 each for mine,
through the Miracle Ear counter at Sears.  I've heard that there is a
substantial discount for senior citizens, but I haven't researched that, because
I'm not a senior citizen, yet!

Give them a try; you might be pleasantly surprised!


(Martin Vuille) writes...

	PCMCIA
	1030G East Duane St
	Sunnyvale, CA 94086 USA
	408-720-0107

	See also:
	alt.periphs.pcmcia


Any rocky mountain spotted fever experts out there ?

The doctor thinks a friend might have this.
The question is, doesn't the tick have to bite you ?

You frequently find a tick crawling on you after a walk
in the woods around here, but you tend to notice it before
it bites you; pulling one out of your skin is something
you're not likely to forget.

Can you get the fever without it biting you ?  Do they
sometimes bite you and then let go so you don't realize
you were bitten ?  I know they will let go once they've had
their fill, but you certainly would notice this (arggh).

So how do you get the fever if you never pulled a tick
off yourself (as opposed to finding one merely crawling
on you) ?


My ex-husband & I used to own Borgwards.  Haven't seen any for a long
time.  They were really good cars.  Does ayone out there know anything
about them now?  I heard they were being made in Mexico, but of course
they wouldn't be the original German - if that's even true.  When I've
been in Mexico I haven't seen any.  We loved ours, even tho' they were
ugly - they had names - one was Humphrey Borgward.


Stole 300 bases.  (Ok, he's still light-hitting, but baseball managers don't
think so, they think he, like Omar Moreno before him, is a perfect leadoff
man.  Awesome defense.)

He's still around because of his 1986, when he hit 20 HR.

Hasn't played 10+ years in the bigs.  Wasn't a full-time major-leaguer
until 1988.

Consistent .300 hitter.

We'll see if he's still around in 1994 for his tenth year.

Same goes for Herm.

Doesn't count then.

Redus is hardly light-hitting, plus he stole 300 bases.  Close to
800 OPS career against LHP.

We'll see if he's still around in 1995 to qualify.

Slugged .416 to .440 for three straight years in one of the worst hitters'
parks in the NL.  He's going to be one of Colorado's better players this
year.  Plus, to make ten you have to count all the time he spent in Denver
and Buffalo and Hawaii while with the White Sox.

Coleman, assuming he makes it to 1994, was never perceived as being
weak offensively, though of course he was.  Led NL in SB his first six
years in the majors.

We'll see if he's still around in 1997.

Wilson has always been overrated, but hit .300 five times in a six-year
stretch and led the league in triples five times.  But we can count him
if he's still playing in 1994, though it'll be because he's Otis Nixon
deluxe with slightly worse defense.

Okay, if he's in the league this year, he can count, though he's also
in the majors because of Otis Nixon syndrome.

He's not spectacular, but he's neither light-hitting nor a ten-year man.

Halfway there, and unlikely to make it 3/4 of the way there.

Brock suffered from Otis Nixon disease, but he wasn't perceived as
light-hitting.  Neither was Curt Flood.  Cesar Cedeno was *not* light-
hitting.

He'll have to steal a lot more bases.


Could someone explain where these names come from?   I'm sure there's a
perfectly good reason to name a planetoid "Smiley," but I'm equally sure that
I don't know what that reason is.


Microsoft is the largest software company on the planet, yet I cannot think
of even *ONE* computing concept that they innovated and brought to market
before anyone else.  Xerox-PARC/Apple, Osborne, NeXT, GNU and others have
been pioneers and led the way to the future of computing.  What has
microsoft done to be a technological leader?  I posted this question before,
but I got nary a reply.  I make the challenge now to anyone who can come up
with something-especially Microsoft employees.  I get no response this time,
I guess it pretty much assures me that there is none--which is what I
suspect anyway.


At Algor's insistance, the shaped charge will automatically detonate after
thirty years, a la "Logan's Run," in order to maintain population control.


I am upgrading my hard drive so I am selling this 40 M drive, it run
great, without any problem, for $90 and share the shipping.