Teflon? A contribution from the space program? Since the French were using
Teflon on household items in the early 1950's, it is unlikely that it was
invented by NASA. As for pacemakers and calculators, again those are
anecdotally connected with NASA.


As distributed, twm thinks everything with three or more colormap cells must
be a colour screen.  Here's a patch to have it use the screen's visual class.

*** twm.c.DIST	Wed May 12 14:56:55 1993
--- twm.c	Wed May 12 15:47:53 1993
***************
*** 343,352 ****
--- 343,384 ----

  	Scr->XORvalue = (((unsigned long) 1) << Scr->d_depth) - 1;

+ #ifdef oldCode
  	if (DisplayCells(dpy, scrnum) < 3)
  	    Scr->Monochrome = MONOCHROME;
  	else
  	    Scr->Monochrome = COLOR;
+ #else
+ 	{	XVisualInfo template;
+ 		XVisualInfo *visualInfo;
+ 		int nitems;
+
+ 		template.visual = DefaultVisual(dpy, scrnum);
+ 		template.visualid = XVisualIDFromVisual(template.visual);
+ 		template.screen = scrnum;
+ 		visualInfo = XGetVisualInfo(dpy, VisualIDMask|VisualScreenMask,
+ 				&template, &nitems);
+ 		if (nitems == 1) {
+ 			switch (visualInfo->class) {
+ 		case StaticColor:
+ 		case PseudoColor:
+ 		case TrueColor:
+ 		case DirectColor:
+ 				Scr->Monochrome = COLOR;
+ 				break;
+
+ 		default:	Scr->Monochrome = MONOCHROME;
+ 				break;
+ 			}
+ 		}
+ 		else {
+ 			(void) fprintf(stderr,
+ 					"%d Visual match(es), assuming mono\n",
+ 					nitems);
+ 			Scr->Monochrome = MONOCHROME;  /* assume */
+ 		}
+ 	}
+ #endif

  	/* setup default colors */
  	Scr->FirstTime = TRUE;


When I was a school boy, my biology teacher told us of an incident
in which a couple were very passionate without actually having
sexual intercourse.  Somehow the girl became pregnent as sperm
cells made their way to her through the clothes via persperation.

Was my biology teacher misinforming us, or do such incidents actually
occur?


of
thier

Eloquently, if somewhat shrilly, put.

Well, why not?

You have a way with words.  And you sure get shrill on cue.

Jim
--
jmd@handheld.com


                                                           ^^-- name?

Other than it tells quite a lot about the Man himself.

Are you the spokesman for "most people?"

That you don't recognize the Biblical commentary used.  Those in the
church know the language though, and have no such excuse.

You missed the point -- which is that the Prophets, the Psalms, and
Revelation, all together, provide a very rich view of a very special
event -- a wedding.

How are you able to make such a conclusion?  Please note, that the
first part of Revelation makes it clear that the address is to those
in the church. That said, it doesn't hurt to try to see what the
prophecies are ahead of time -- for those outside the church.

So you say. It should be interesting to see what the investigators
conclude, and what the final judgments are.

So much for war and government eh.

Very glad you asked, since I goofed -- it should be Philippian 1:14-19:
(here from NIV)

	Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord
	have been encouraged to speak the word of God more
	courageously and fearlessly.

	It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and
	rivalry, but others out of good will. The latter do so
	in love, knowing that I am put here for the gospel.
	The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not
	sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for
	me while I am chains. But what does it matter?

	The important thing is that in every way, whether from
	false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because
	of this I rejoice.

My comment stems from the realization that we who love the Lord, are
human and imperfect. Whatever we "preach," no matter how eloquent, or
how corrupted -- is of little difference. Those who know the Master's
voice will recognize Him -- a gem-stone amidst rock. Such is also the
lesson of the "stumblingblock." For those who have an ear to hear.


What's that supposed to mean?

She's 80 lbs.

Understand english? 1/2 ;)

She let wind break cause I fed her cheap food, and not
the same thing every time.  So she had to "adjust" to
each different brand for a while.


Source: Channel 4 News at 19.00, Monday 2 March 1992.
2 French journalists have seen 32 corpses of men, women and children
in civilian clothes. Many of them shot dead from their heads as close
as less than 1 meter.

Source: BBC1 Morning news at 07.37, Tuesday 3 March 1992.
BBC reporter was live on line and he claimed that he saw more than 100
bodies of Azeri men, women and children as well as a baby who are shot
dead from their heads from a very short distance.

Source: BBC1 Morning news at 08:12, Tuesday 3 March 1992.
Very disturbing picture has shown that many civilian corpses who were
picked up from mountain. Reporter said he, cameraman and Western
Journalists have seen more than 100 corpses, who are men, women,
children, massacred by Armenians. They have been shot dead from their
heads as close as 1 meter. Picture also has shown nearly ten bodies
(mainly women and children) are shot dead from their heads. Azerbaijan
claimed that more than 1000 civilians massacred by Armenian forces.

Serdar Argic


You might as well have.  You certainly would not have been in error if
you would have.


And I thought I knew a lot about serial devices.  Perhaps I should just
keep my big mouth shut.  Sorry.


I tried the AutoFom stuff on my 1991 Saturn SC, and was so disappointed with it
that I returned it for a refund.  I polished the car for 2 hours and couldn't
remove the swirl marks/thin film that was all over the finish.  It also
attracted more dirt than without the stuff.


Perry> NNTP-Posting-Host: wswiop15.win.tue.nl

Perry> Perhaps you should try nic.funet.fi instead of funet.fi ??!?!?

Another possibility is, that you did not give your email address as password
for the anonymous account. If you that, you see following message:

230-
230-You entered an invalid/inpropable password, and are now accessing
230-restricted subset of files.    Please read README for more information.
230-We have special access features, see file README
230 It was last updated Tue Apr 13 23:45:09 1993 - 9.4 days ago

This can happen, if your terminal emulator does not generate the '@'
character as you think (it is hard to see, since passwords are not echoed..).


As the heading indicates, it is impossible for me to fathom why Barry is not
batting 4th for the Giants behind Will Clark.  Barry is such an awesome and
consistent hitter -- definitely the best in the National League.  IMHO, to
have Williams, a streaky hitter (and not really a clutch hitter) batting
4th ahead of Bonds is simply an injustice to the Giants and fans of the
Giants.


Does anyone have one of these that would care to share
some information on?  I concerned about the turbo.
How reliable is it?  How's the gas milage.

Please responde to me, not here.

Thank you.


With the recent demise of the Chicago Blawkhawks (much to my delight) I
noticed their 8 (?) game playoff losing streak (4 to the Pens last year, and
now 4 to the Blues) and I am wondering what the NHL record for consecutive
losses is, if there even is one...

I'm pretty sure that the Hawks have at least a 9 game losing  streak, since
they've had to have lost a series since their last championship (whenever that
was)

Basically, I need something else to rag on my Hawks-fan friend with :)

Mike, the insomniaced


hi all, Ive applied for the class of 93 at quite a number of schools (20)
and have gotten 13 rejects, 4 interviews and 3 no responses.
Any one know when the heck these people send out their acceptance letters?
According to the med school admissions book theyre supposed to send out
the number of their class in acceptances by mid March. Whats going on... I
am losing my sanity checking my mailbox every day.

Also does anyone have some useful alternatives in case i dont get in, i
kind of looked into Chiropractic and Podiatry but they really dont
interest me. Thanks.


garrod@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (David Garrod) writes...

	It was on CBS yesterday. The explanation is reasonable enough.
	Then again, if the fire was accidental, why didn't more
	people get out?

	That's true. I think there were several Australians in the
	group as well.

                  _____  _____
                  \\\\\\/ ___/___________________
  Mitchell S Todd  \\\\/ /                 _____/__________________________
________________    \\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/
\_____        \__    / / tamu.edu  _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/
    \__________\__  / /        _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/
                \_ / /__________/
                 \/____/\\\\\\
 			 \\\\\\


This topic was beaten to death a year or so ago.

The concrete is not the problem.

Lead-acid batteries often fail from disuse (not being charged for a long
time), but there's no way the concrete floor could be the cause of the
problem.


When I need a kick-butt God, or when I need assurance of the reality
of truth, I pray to God the Father.

When I need a friend, someone to put his arm around me and
cry with me, I pray to Jesus.

When I need strength or wisdom to get through a difficult situation,
I pray for the Holy Spirit.

I realize that the above will probably make some people cringe,
but what can I say? I think the doctrine of the trinity is
an attempt to reconcile Jesus being God and being distinct from
God, as described in the Bible.

I wonder if Jesus had been a Hindu how different the wording would be.


:
:I got the following today from Gary Risebrough and it worked fine:
:
:Excerpts from mail: 29-Apr-93 Re: ol{v}wm 3 virtual keybo..
:ITO2@aodc.gov.au (554)
:

:> I have :
:> > OpenWindows.KeyboardCommands:   Full
:> > OpenWindows.VirtualGrabKeys :   False
:
:> which seems to work.
:

Where can I find man pages about VirtualGrabKeys resource - it doesn't
show up in my OpenWindows 3.0 man pages...


I checked the FAQ on this first, and no luck..

I need to convert the R5 Tree widget for use with xview v3.0. The
problem is the fact that xview uses their own event loop system, and I
was wondering if anyone had any tips (or converted source) on converting
these pups.


I'm working on my senior project here at UF (florida). The project requires fractel trees. I'm interested in either psuedo or real code; just about anything will help.

Perhaps some good books on the subject could help too.

	mail will reach at: quartz@iriquois.eel.ufl.edu


\input amstex
\documentstyle{amsppt}
\pagewidth{6.5in}
\magnification=1200
\pageheight{7.5in}
\
\title {Letter to the Editor} \endtitle
\author {Matthew L. Fante} \endauthor
\date {April 20, 1993} \enddate
\endtopmatter

pull back the heavens and show you my anger?! ... fear me.''  The 51 day
standoff between federal agents and the Branch Davidians ended on April 19
in what appeared to be a mass suicide by fire.  Now that the multi-million
dollar standoff is over, a few things remain: cleaning up the mess, and
assigning blame.

\

From the onset of the April 19 tear gas attacks by federal agents, President
Clinton already started passing the buck by saying ``Talk to the attorney
general or the FBI... I knew it was going to be done, but the decision was
{\it entirely theirs}.  {\it They} made the tactical decision.'' Enter
Attorney General Janet Reno.  After most of the Branch Davidians died,
Reno said she took ``full responsibility'' for the decision.  ``I approved
the plan'' she said adding that she ``did not advise him [Clinton] as to the
details.''  In fact, she told Clinton that it was ``the best way to go.''
As the fire was roaring through the Branch Davidian's compound Clinton said
that he was ``deeply sadened by the loss of life'' and in the same breath that
``the law enforcement agencies involved in the Waco siege recommended the
course of action pursued today.''  Later he went on to say ``I stand by that
[Reno's] decision.''

\

How did this all begin?  At 0930 on February 28 agents of the Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) launched a full-scale, high-profile
assault on the Branch Davidian's compound.  This raid was much
more than an assault on a group suspected of possessing illegal weapons.  The
assault was a planned media circus used as a propaganda device of the BATF
to show their might and just purpose.

\

At the onset of the ``no-knock'' raid, gaggles of heavily armed BATF agents
made their way inside the compound without identifying themselves or state
that they had a warrant until long after the shooting began.
Silently, the agents made their way to the compound's buildings and started
their ``search'' by charging at the buildings and throwing concussion grenades
and ordering the cult members to come out of the buildings.

\

If unknown persons dressed in black ninja costumes and combat fatigues
were to attack you, throwing grenades and brandishing firearms, would you not
assume that these people are criminals and attempt to defend yourself?  The
tactics employed by the BATF provoked the battle.

\

The initial assualt by the BATF was not successful.  Unfortunately, lives
were lost on both sides.  But, had the assault been a success, the liberal
media would have praised the BATF by showing the footage of BATF agents
carting away a bunch of gun-wielding religious nuts.  Of course, any
violation of the cult's rights would have been overlooked and the media
would proclaim America's fortune in having super-cop organizations like the
BATF that can systematically ``take out'' terroristic groups such as the
Branch Davidians.

\

As far as I can see, the BATF and the FBI dropped the ball - just like
Philadelphia did in the 1985 MOVE crisis which left 11 dead, 250 homeless,
and a city block razed.
It appears that the BATF has adopted the shoot-first tactic of no-knock
raids to execute search warrants.  Don't let the BATF convince you that
the no-knock raid was justified.  No-knock assaults make sense when looking
for, say, drugs that can easily be hidden or disposed of in a few seconds.
The BATF was looking for illegal weapons, not drugs that could be hidden or
flushed down the toilet in a matter of a few seconds.  What ever happened to
``This is the police!  You are surrounded...''?  {\it This policy of no-knock
raids, by federal and local agencies, should be restricted}.  Further, the use
of military firepower against presumed innocent citizens is a very scary idea,
and is why the Davidians were justified in using lethal force to ensure that
their fourth ammendment rights [``the right of the people to be secure in
their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches
and seizures''] are not denied.

\

\

\

\noindent Matthew L. Fante \newline
\end

--
____________________________________________________________________
Matthew Fante
mlf3@Lehigh.EDU             For a good prime call 2^756839 - 1


 The above statement ignores reality. The BD WERE provoked.

 Damn, Phil. You must have seen a different tape of the initial raid than
I did. Your `doorbell' happened to include lobbing percussion grenades and
attempting to storm the compound through the windows. I can honestly say
I have never seen a `doorbell' that works like that.

  THINK, man. The BATF are serving a warrant on someone who they feel might
 have illegal automatic weapons. If they expected, as you state, that `the B-D
 to be anything other than peaceful citizens' they could have sent one, maybe
 two agents up to the front door, knock, and attempt to serve the warrant on
 the person answering the door. Scenario one, that person lets them in to
 perform the search and no one gets hurt. Scenario two, the person answering
 the door pulls a weapon aand kills both officers. Now you have two dead BATF
 agents instead of four, the BATF knows exactly where they stand with regards
 to the BD and began to formulate a plan of action to arrest those responsible
 without harm to the innocent people/children within the compound.

 No, the stupidity was the attempt to serve the warrant SWAT style.

 Sure, do it within the law. The BATF is there to uphold the law, not
 circumvent it to fit their needs.....

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

 Paul R. Busta	                                     Busta@vicki.enet.dec.com
 Salem, N.H.
 603-894-3962


I have a Sony 1304s whch I would like to hook up so that I get its
power though my Quadra 800's power supply. ie, if I had an apple monitor,
I could plug the monitor directly into the computer so that when I hit
the power button the keyboard, both the monitor and computer go on, and
when I shut down, both go off.  Is there an extension cord type cable
I can buy which allows me to plug my existing power cord into and then plug
this "extension cable" into my Quadra?

Any thoughts and comments would be appreciated,

Thanks in advance,
Derek

******************************************************************************
  DEREK FONG                           *   EMAIL: thewho@plume.mit.edu
  Dept. of Physical Oceanography       *          thewho@darla.whoi.edu


A woman once told me her doctor told her that I
could catch, asymptomatically, her yeast infection
from her, then give it back to her, causing
a relapse.

Probably bogus, but if not, it's another reason to use
latex...


I haven't recognized any names from previous discussions, but I do
notice that there are a few who blame Clinton for the actions of the
BATF in Waco.  Unless you felt the same way about what we did under
Bush's *direct* command in Panama, it's just partisan whining.  Which is
what I expect most of it to be.  I can see no way to condemn one and not
the other.

But I'm sure some Limbot will tell me how killing thousands of
Panamanian civilians to serve an arrest warrant is much better than
allowing 80 religious fanatics to commit suicide following a botched
attempt by the BATF to serve a search warrant.


The principle underlying these devices is a well establish principle in
psychology called 'entrainment,' whereby external sensory stimuli
influence gross electrical patterns of brain function.

They are 'experimental' in that people experiment with them and they
are _not_ widely (if at all) used in medicine for therapeutic purposes.
Given the exception of TENS and similar units used for external electrical
stimulation, usually for pain relief, not really a light and sound machine.

They are _not_ experimental in the sense of a specific medical
category to that effect, as with experimental drugs, as the FDA does not
specifically regulate medical devices in the way it does pharmaceuticals.

There are few reliable studies of therapeutic or enhancement effects
for mind machines, other than those relaxation-related effects found with
meditation or self-hypnosis as well.  Reported benefits are mostly anecdotal and
subjective so far, so it's hard to generalize about their potential value.

A pretty good general non-technical introduction to a wide variety
of these devices may be found in "Would the Buddha Wear a Walkman ?"
Some interesting background material, names of suppliers, and capsule reviews
of specific equipment.

A more important question might be whether they have enough additional
value to be worth investing in.  'Biofeedback' was found to be a legitimate
and reliable effect experimentally under certain conditions, (in that
it demonstrated that we can influence physiological processes previously
considered purely autonomic) but never panned out as a particularly valuable
therapeutic tool because of the skill level required and the subtlety and
temporary nature of the effects in most cases.   Maybe someone else
has more, there used to be a whole mailing list devoted to mind machines,
somewhere on the net.

						kind regards,


PaintShop Pro for Windows is a fantastic product.  It can handle TIFF, GIF,
BMP, PCX, and many other formats, displaying them and converting between
them.  There is a shareware version of the program; I assume it's available
in the Windows areas of the standard anonymous FTP locations (I'd try
ftp.cica.indiana.edu).  Log in as ftp, use your username as a password,
and look for a program called PSP101.exe or something like that.  I have
the registered version, and the only major difference I can detect is that
the unregistered version pops up a message when you start the program
asking you to please register it.

Once again, FANTASTIC software.  Up to 24 bits, huge images, everything.

-Brian


There are several things in ITAR which have never been tested in court.
The concensus appears to be:

You could be arrested as an international arms trafficker.  (You could,
regardless of the state of the law, but there are some paragraphs which
suggest you would be violating the law.)

If it goes to court, the ITARs could be thrown out is incompatible with the
First amendment; or the court could rule that "software" is "technical
data" not subject to the ITARs; or the court could rule that the
phrase "publicly available" as defined in the ITARs would apply,
making it only subject to requiring a general export license; or, you could
be prosecuted successfully for arms trafficing or espionage.  General
concensus among lawyers who have read the ITARs, is that one of the first
two would occur.


I have a question for y'all:

I'm looking at an ad for the new 3.5" FAST SCSI-2 drives from Micropolis
in the June, 1993, MacWorld. (I have seen similar ads for the IDE versions
in IBM PC magazines)

Well, the ad says that all three drives have a FAST SCSI-2 interface,
but then it says that the DTR rate for each drive is 5 megabytes/second,
*max*.

How can this be?  I thought that if a drive was to be FAST SCSI-2 it
had to have a DTR of 10megs a second?

(I am assuming the 5megs/sec claim by Micropolis is from the 512k cache.
I admit that I would be very impressed if the drive can *read/write* data
at 5megs a second!)


Why?  He, Reno, and the FBI got what they wanted -- a reminder of
who is the boss in America -- the thugs who work for the government.


Any idea on the price range of the Cyclone or the Tempest? (compared to
current line of computers, where will the new ones fall in price)
--
============================================================================
 KEEPER:  Heh heh.  Stop!  What is your name?
 ARTHUR:  It is Arthur, King of the Britons.
 KEEPER:  What is your quest?
 ARTHUR:  To seek the Holy Grail.
 KEEPER:  What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
 ARTHUR:  What do you mean?  An African or European swallow?
 KEEPER:  What?  I don't know that!  Auuuuuuuugh!
 BEDEMIR:  How do know so much about swallows?
 ARTHUR:  Well, you have to know these things when you're a king you know.


Just curious why floptical drives never seemed to catch on. Remember
those 21 Mb disks that look and feel like 3.5" floppies? These drives
are SCSI devices and can read and write both 720 Kb and 1.44/21 Mb
disks. Sounds to me to be one great product for the PC market. Are the
prices really that unaffordable compared to CD-ROMs which are currently
not rewritable? I know about the new rewritable CDs and expect SONY to
develop the first MDs for the computer. My question is: why isn't there
any substantial interest in developing the flopticals?

Just a thought.


The Phillies have won two games back to back in extra innings.  Last
night's game was hard fought.  The game in Chicago should have been a
blow out.  All in all these two games show a different Phillies team.
In past seasons they tended to always be on the short end of 1 run
games.  I don't know how many times I saw them losing by only 1 run.
If they were able to win most of those, they might have been more of
a contending team.  They are 3-0 so far in extra innings.  And of
course, they are 10-3.


My brother purchased baseball tickets for Texas Rangers vs Toronto
Bluejays in July, but he was unable to get vacation days to get there.

Is anyone interested in purchasing the following:

Arlington Stadium
Arlington,Texas, Texas Rangers vs. Toronto Bluejays

Thursday, July 22                              Friday, July 23
4 tickets, section 103                         "Helmet Night"
$14 each                                       4 tickets, section 305
                                               $14 each

If you want them all, the total is $112.00

Please contact me over e-mail, or directly to my brother:

Randy Hollister
19 Rosemont Lane
Streator, IL 61364
815/672-5265

My brother would be eternally grateful for someone to purchase these tickets!

Thank you!


Whoa.  Think twice, now, unless you want the same standards applied to
hollowpoints...
--


I posted this May 12th:

	I got a few requests asking for a summary, so I'll attempt one
here:

	Here's the ones I know of:

	Wind/U		- Bristol Technologies

	Hunter SDK	- Hunter Systems

	MainWin		- MainSoft

	LIBWXM          - Visual Solutions

	Hunter

	The company is going through some big changes.  I expect
to eventually see the Hunter SDK pop up with a new name.  At the moment, it
is difficult to get phone calls returned and otherwise obtain info.
Hopefully they will post something about themselves once things settle down.

	Visual Solutions

	LIBWXM is a product that I just heard about.  They don't
yet support MDI or MFC.  Libwxm was used to port VisSim, a mathematical
modeling package.  Does native Motif Widgets, like Wind/U from Bristol.
Contact Carrie Lemieux at 508 392 0100 for more info.  She's very helpful.

	MainSoft

	This translates Windows source to a Unix executable that
can switch off between a Windows or Quasi-Motif look and feel at
runtime.  They skip the Xt and Xm (Motif) X toolkit levels and go
straight to Xlib.  They don't yet support MFC.  They're at 415 896 0708.

	Bristol

	This company that seems to be on the right track.  Wind/U uses
Xlib/Xt/Xm to give a *real* Motif app.  They seem to be doing the most work
in trying to support things like DDE, Common Dialogs, and more on the horizon.
My contact there is knowledgeable, responds to my email, and wrote an example
program for me showing how to obtain X widgets from Windows handles.
They're at 203 438 6969, or you can email info@bristol.com.


What would you accept as sources?  This very thing has been written
in lots of books.  You could start with Erich Fromm's _The Dogma of Christ_.


There is a cartridge capping upgrade for older deskjet printers
available from hewlett-packard.  Older original deskjet and
possibly deskjet 500 units may have a black plastic slide with
rubber capping components in the cartrige parking area on the right
side (viewed from front) of the printer.  Newer printers have a
gray or white plastic slide.  The black plastic slide can allow
your cartridge to dry out.  There was and may still be information
packaged with ink cartridges explaining the situation.  HP placed a
coupon for a free upgrade kit to modernize old deskjets to the new
capping mechanism.  I did this on my printer and did indeed find
that the cartidges now last longer.

I don't have the information handy.  I suggest contacting your
nearest HP service center for information on obtaining the kit.

HP has upgrade kits that consist of electronics and mechanical
components that vary depending on the starting level printer and
the level to which you wish to upgrade.  I upgraded my original
desket to a dekjet 500.  The kit was fairly expensive.  You are
likely better off selling your old printer and purchasing a new
deskjet 500 now that prices have declined so much.  Upgrading an
original deskjet to 500 requires a fair amount of skill, but no
soldering.  Upgrading a deskjet plus to a 500 is involves swapping
the processor card and changing a few minor parts.  Contact your HP
service center for further information.

The PCL language used by Deskjets is considerably different from
the PCL used by laser printers, especially the newer laser
printers.  The biggest problem is dumb laser drivers that send a
raster end command after each scan line.  This makes no material
difference for lasers, but causes the deskjet to print the
accumulated raster.  As you might guess, the result is hideously
slow printing.  The new DOS Wordperfect print deskjet drivers are
still guilty of this particular behavior.  From the way Wordperfect
works, this would not be easy to change.  Windows Wordperfect works
efficiently unless you use the DOS drivers instead of Windows'.

The PCL4 dialect used in the Laserjet IIIP allows compression that
permits a full page 300 dpi image to be rendered with only one
megabyte of memory.  An uncompressed image could be as large as
about 909 Kbytes, but the printer needs about 300K of memory for
its internal house-keeping.  Laserjet IV models support banded
printing that allows incrmental download of the image with
compression in limited memory situations.  Deskjet downloadable
fonts are not compatible with laserjet fonts.

A single page from a laserjet only requires about 20 seconds.  This
is faster than any but the most trivial printing from a deskjet
printer.  The presumption, of course, being that the laser printer
has completed its warm-up cyle.

Until ink chemistry is changed, wicking resulting in image
deterioration is unavoidable.  I won't use the word impossible, but
matching laser quality output from a deskjet printer is unlikely.
Chosing an appropriate paper type helps, but does not eliminate the
problem.

Laser printers are more wastful of energy and consumable
components.  HP does accept return of spent toner cartridges,
mitigating the material waste problem to a degree.  Energy waste
could use more work.  Warm-up times have decreased, allowing
stand-by current consumption to be significantly reduced in the
laserjet IV.

Kyocera produces a laser print engine that employs an amorphous
silicon imaging drum with a replacable toner system.  The image
drum is good for approximately 100K copies.  It is a very nice
print engine.  I wish HP used the Kyocera engine.  Kyocera also has
a neat modular paper source and stacker system.

The recommended duty cycle for a deskjet is significantly lower
than any of HP's laser printers.  The pick-up pressure rollers are
subject to wear and I case confirm eventually do wear out.  The
usual symptom is that the printer becomes reluctant to feed paper.
The paper feed is integrated in a transport mechanism that is a
single part from HP service.  Replacement cost for the transport is
almost $200.  The feed rollers are not separately replacable,
though it would not be a difficult job for a competent technician.
I have disassembled and reassembled the transport on my own printer.

It depends upon the application which printer is best for you.  If
you only print 5 or 10 pages a day and are satisfied with the
appearance of output, the deskjet is a very good choice.  As noted,
the deskjet 500 is my choice for personal use.


I realy like this idea, it would be wonderfull to see such a
big bright satelite on the night sky. I will even promise to
try to buy whatever product it advertises to help this project.

Please write to Space Marketing and encourage this project.
I sadly dosent have enough money to invest in it.

--


My sig has nothing to do with cockiness.  What you put in your sig has nothing
to do with your article, as I learned back in the fall, the hard way.

You mean 'butt' don't you?  Not but :-)

Sure you do -- what??????????

Two points, one what does r.s.b.c. have to do with hockey?  Secondly, UMASS
beat my Quakers???  Hello!!!  Earth here, are you responding???  We're not in
the Atlantic 10 (or 8 whatever you wanna call it), we're in the Big 10 now!!!
The A-10 was too weak for my Lady Lions -- they had to go to a more challenging
conference.  It didn't pay off as the Big East showed them a thing or too, but
I still posted on a regular basis and tracked all the women's scores with
reviews throughout the tournament.  It wasn't a reason to stop posting. :-)

It's not over yet -- if anyone has a chance to come back in 4 games, I think
Boston can do it, but I still see Buffalo winning in 6.

Agreed -- they're playing tremendous hockey right now.  Congatualtions on three
straight Buffalo.  It could very easily be 2-1 Boston, but Buffalo has come up
tough and a little luck.  (You never see a penalty in OT that doesn't have both
sides involved in a playoff game.  Never never never!)


Cite source, please.

--Mike


funny, it seems to me that the stats major league and minor league handbooks,
which are nothing BUT collections of statistics, are authored by "bill james
and stats inc. (and howe, for the minor league handbook)".

and i am not sure how the 1993 bill james player ratings book qualifies
as a "book with statistics", while the elias analyst is a "statistics book".
the analyst contains more stats, sure, but it also contains more dialogue.

finally, the point was not about the word "statistics".  it was about
"money-grubbing".  i don't see how anyone who has looked at the bill
james player ratings book cannot consider him money-grubbing.


2 Kenwood KS-H51 150-Watt Floor-standing speakers for sale
Less than one year old. Brand new shape.

$185.


Where are your references?  I have been unable to find studies that state
that chromium "cures diabetese".  It can reduce the amount of insulin you
have to take.  "High blood pressure" - I have never heard of this claim
before.  "... anabolic steroids" - I have also never heard of this claim
before.  Sounds like you are making things up and stretching the truth
for God knows what reason.  Did somebody piss you off at one time?

I agree with you that chromium picolinate by itself isn't likely
to make a fat person thin.  But it can be the decisive component
of an overall strategy for long-term weight control and make an
important contribution to good health.  It is important to
exercise (11, 12) and also avoid fat calories (9, 10).

Chromium picolinate has shown to reduce fat and increase
lean muscle (1, 2, 3).  I will not bore you with the
statistics.  You wouldn't believe these anyway.

Chromium Picolinate is an exceptionally bioactive source of
the essential mineral chromium.  Chromium plays a vital role
in "sensitizing" the body's tissues to the hormone insulin.
Weight gain in the form of fat tends to impair sensitivity
to insulin and thus, in turn, makes it harder to lose
weight (4).

Insulin directly stimulates protein synthesis and retards
protein breakdown in muscles (5, 6).  This "protein sparing"
effect of insulin tends to decline during low calorie diets
as insulin levels decline, which results in loss of muscle
and organ tissue.  By "sensitizing" muscle to insulin,
chromium picolinate helps to preserve muscle in dieters
so that they "burn" more fat and less muscle.  Preservation
of lean body mass has an important long-term positive
effect on metabolic rate, helping dieters keep off the
fat they've lost.

Chromium picolinate promotes efficient metabolism by aiding
the thermogenic (heat producing) effects of insulin.
Insulin levels serve as a rough index of the availability
of food calories, so it's not at all surprising that insulin
stimulates metabolism (4, 7, 8).  Note that I did not say
that chromium picolinate increases metabolism.

In summary, you need to change your life style in order to
loose weight and stay healthy:

  A. Reduce dietary fat consumption to no more than 20% of calories.
     - Eating fat makes you fat.

  B. Increase dietary fiber
     - low in calories; high in nutrients.

  C. Get regular aerobic exercise at least 3 times a week
     - burn calories.

  D. Take chromium picolinate daily
     - lose fat; keep muscle

References:

1.  Kaats GR, Fisher JA, Blum K. Abstract, American Aging
    Association, 21st Annual Meeting, Denver, October 1991.
2.  Evans, GW. Int J Biosoc Med Res 1989; 11: 163-180.
3.  Page TG, Ward TL, Southern LL. J Animal Sci 69, Suppl 1:
    Abstract 403, 1991.
4.  Felig P. Clin Physiol 1984; 4: 267-273.
5.  Kimball SR, Jefferson LS. Diabetes Metab Rev 4: 773, 1988.
6.  Fukugawa NK, Minaher KL, Rowe JW. et al. J Clin Invest 76:
    2306, 1985.
7.  Fehlmann M, Freychet P. Biol Chem 256: 7449, 1981
8.  Pittman CS, Suda AK, Chambers JB, Jr., Ray GY. Metabolism
    28: 333, 1979.
9.  Danforth E, Jr. Am J Clin Nutr 41: 1132, 1985.
10. McCarty MF. Med Hypoth 20: 183, 1986.
11. Bielinski R, Schutz Y, Jequier E. Am J Clin Nutr 42:69, 1985.
12. Young JC, Treadway JL, Balon TW, Garvas HP, Ruderman NB.
    Metabolism 35: 1048, 1986.


	Yeah, but they probably included industries and educational institutions
that uses mostly work stations (SUNs, DEC, IBM RS600... etc etc)  Which turns
monitor off if left untouched for 5 min.

- Chung Yang


Yes, I suppose that's true.  Of course, notice I qualified with NEARLY
every language :-).  And there are missionaries out there who can
speak every imaginable language AND dialect.  But then, the fact that
not all languages have a WRITTEN gospel lends no credence to the
concept of "pentecost" type xenoglossolalia since most tongues occur not
in these places of un-written language, but rather in churches full
of people who do have a written language and a Bible in that language.


If I prescribe itraconazole for a patient's sinusitis neither the AMA,
FDA, State Licensing Board, nor ABFP will be knocking on my door to ask
why.  This is a specious argument.

Among other things, how to evaluate new theories and treatments.

Funny, I thought it meant "one who fraudulently misrepresents his
ability and experience in the diagnosis and treatment of disease or
the effects to be achieved by the treatment he offers" (Dorland's
27th).  Certainly more precision than conveyed by "chronic yeast".

The inability to discriminate between fraudulent or erroneous
representations is far more frightening.  It is fraud to promote a
treatment where the evidence for it is either lacking or against it
and the quacksalver knows so, or error if the honest practitioner
doesn't know so.  Failure to speak out against either bespeaks
incompetency.

May I reply - seriously - that if the practitioners and proponents of
non-scientific medicine have left their minds so open that the parts
of their brains that do critical evaluation have fallen out, they should
learn to edit their newsgroup headers to conform to the existing
hierarchy and divisions.


I don't like the term "quack" being applied to a licensed physician David.
Questionable conduct is more appropriately called unethical(in my opinion).
I'll give you some examples.

	1. Prescribing controlled substances to patients with no
	   demonstrated need(other than a drug addition) for the medication.

	2. Prescribing thyroid preps for patients with normal thyroid
	   function for the purpose of quick weight loss.

	3. Using laetril to treat cancer patients when such treatment has
	   been shown to be ineffective and dangerous(cyanide release) by
	   the NCI.

These are errors of commission that competently trained physicians should
not committ but sometimes do.  There are also errors of omission(some of
which result in malpractice suits).  I don't think that using anti-fungal
agents to try to relieve discomfort in a patient who you suspect may be
having a problem with candida(or another fungal growth) is an error of
commission or omission.  Healers have had a long history of trying to
relieve human suffering.  Some have stuck to standard, approved procedures,
others have been willing to try any reasonable treatment if there is a
chance that it will help the patient.  The key has to be tied to the
healer's oath, "I will do no harm".  But you know David that very few
treatments involve no risk to the patient.  The job of the physician is a
very difficult one when risk versus benefit has to be weighed.  Each
physician deals with this risk/benefit paradox a little differently.  Some
are very conservative while others are more agressive.  An agressive
approach may be more costly to the patient and carry more risk but as long
as the motive is improving the patient's health and not an attempt to rake
in lots of money(through some of the schemes that have been uncovered in
the medicare fraud cases), I don't see the need to label these healers as
quacks or even unethical.

What do I reserve the term quack for?  Pseudo-medical professionals.
These people lurk on the fringes of the health care system waiting for the
frustrated patient to fall into their lair.  Some of these individuals are
really doing a pretty good job of providing "alternative" medicine.  But
many lack any formal training and are in the "business" simply to make a
few fast bucks.   While a patient can be reasonably assured of getting
competent care when a liscenced physician is consulted, this alternative
care area is really a buyer's beware arena.  If you are lucky, you may find
someone who can help you.  If you are unlucky, you can loose a lot of
money and develop severe disease because of the inability of these pseudo-
medical professional to diagnose disease(which is the fortay of the
liscened physicians).

I hope that this clears things up David.


  ^^^  ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^^
Me thinks thee dost protest too much....  1/2 :-)

He made no allegations, and specifically gave the seller the benefit of the
doubt.  He simply made the net aware of the fact that many of these seats are
stolen, so watch out and ask questions when buying.  That's good advice to
follow when buying _anything_ from a third party, on the net or elsewhere.
Touchy, touchy...


If the children are not being fed, whose fault is that?  You and I
have plenty of food on our tables while others starve.  Why is that?
God gave us this earth to manage.  I don't think we're doing a very
good job of it.  The only consolation I have for those suffering
children is that they will be received into the kingdom of Heaven
where they will never thirst and never hunger again.

Peace be with you,

Malcolm Lee  :)


  Do we want to 'create jobs'? or do we want jobs created that are productive
  in our supply/demand economy? If your answer is the former then we can
  just round up all jobless people and pay them to build sandcastles in
  the desert. If you answer the latter then I fail to see how another
  bureaucracy produces anything.


Okay, the earth has a magnetic field (unless someone missed something?)

Okay if you put a object in the earth magnetic field, it produces electricty..

Now the question. Can you use electricity to power a space/low earth orbit
vehicle? and i fyou can, can you use the magnetic field of the earth to power
it??
Can the idea of a "dragless" satellite be used in part to create the electrical
field?

After all the dragless satellite is (I might be wrong), a suspended between to
pilons, the the pilons compensate for drag.. I think I know what I want to say,
just not sure how to say it..

A dragless satellite sounds interestingly enough liek a generator.

==
Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked


hi guys does anyone could tell me
 at which resolution can work this monitor
 of course it support 640x480 but at 800x600
 and 1024x768 with a cirrus card it seems
 to don't work any clues?


I recently got a Centris 610 4/230 on my desk. It's a vast improvement on
my previous machine (a IIsi 5/40). However .....

I've encountered a problem with fonts ..

Entries in a Filemaker 2.0 database which looked fine when printed from my
previous mac using System 7.01 now look wierd !

Spacing between characters has increased greatly - causing lines to be
truncated. I'm using plain and bold Helvetica in various sizes - the
increase in character spacing seems to occur for all sizes and styles.

I'm using a mixture of TrueType and Fixed-Size fonts - exactly as on my
IIsi - when things worked perfectly.

We've managed to get similar behaviour using Word 5.1.

Apple UK adopted their usual "friendly" approach and told us to call our
local dealer - God help us !!

Any ideas ??

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Pete Edwards

Department of Computing Science
King's College
University of Aberdeen                  Tel.   +44 (0)224 272270/96
Aberdeen, AB9 2UE                       Fax    +44 (0)224 273422
SCOTLAND                                Email  pedwards@csd.abdn.ac.uk

ARTIFICIAL FLOWERS:  Pieces of plastic and metal, crudely fashioned to
  bear a limited, superficial resemblance to real flowers, but with no
  credible attempt to match their internal complexity in terms of form,
  function, or behavior.

ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE: Really smart computers.


It also goes like this:

FED1: We need to listen into <mafia head/druglord/terrorist/BBS sysop>'s
      conversations but don't have probable cause for a tap.

FED2: Who do we have a tap on?

FED1: <some other enemy of the state>.

FED2: So get the keys - we can always claim that phone's being used on the
      tapped line.

There's got to be some way to associate an instrument with an individual or
the state effectively has a tap, possibly not admissible (given the War on
Drugs exceptions to the 4/5 ammendments, who knows) but none the less
listenable tap on any phone.


I use it all day every day (maintaining our ftp site and answering mail
via support@qdeck.com), and I can honestly say that in the last few
months I've never had my machine go down due to any sort of tcpip network
manager instability. (Of course, I've crashed my machine quite a few times
on purpose, during beta testing and that sort of thing, but the tcpip
portion is quite stable...)

However, keep in mind that DVX and the network managers are only going
to be as stable as the software they sit on top of (so if your underlying
network kernel is flakey, you can't expect DVX to be terribly stable...)

It just goes as a window that has graphics drawn into it. (To vastly
over-simplify what goes on, we just take the windows graphics API calls,
and translate them directly to X-protocol; unfortunately, windows was
not really written to be network-aware, so sometimes we see a speed
penalty when an app does something stupid, like sending a big white bitmap
to erase something rather than just drawing a white box; fortunately,
that sort of thing is rare...)

You need to run MS windows, which Word then runs inside. You could run
multiple windows programs within the one WinX window, and windows has
ways to automagically start winapps when you start windows, so in practice
it's not really a major problem. I have my system set up so that I can
run WinX, which automatically starts Word Full-screen (for windows), so
I never see any part of windows but word...)


I've caught myself doing it while on my bicycle.  Does that count?

Dean


I'm looking for a pair of inline skates (aka roller blades) new or used for
less than $60.00 including shipping.
Size 11.

Strider                     | SUNY @ Buffalo | psr@acsu.buffalo.edu
Lord Mayor, The Hill People | (716) 636 4862 | V127MHSK@ubvms.bitnet

"Son, I am able," she said, "though you scare me."  "Watch," said I, "beloved."

--
Strider                     | SUNY @ Buffalo | psr@acsu.buffalo.edu
Lord Mayor, The Hill People | (716) 636 4862 | V127MHSK@ubvms.bitnet


: However greatly we extoll Mary, it is quite obvious that she is in no
: way God or even part of God or equal to God.  The Assumption of our
: Blessed Mother, meant that because of her close identification with the
: redemptive work of Christ, she was Assumed (note that she did not
: ASCEND) body and soul into Heaven, and is thus one of the few, along
: with Elijah, Enoch, Moses (maybe????) who are already perfected in
: Heaven.  Obviously, the Virgin Mary is far superior in glorification to
: any of the previously mentioned personages.

As I said, it is a provocative thought.

From "Answer to Job":

	The logical consistency of the papal declaration cannot be surpassed
	and it leaves Protestantism with the odium of being nothing but a
	_man's religion_ which allows no metaphysical representation of woman.
	...Protestantism has obviously not given sufficient attention to the
	signs of the times which point to the equality of women.  But this
	equality requires to be metaphysically anchored in the figure of a
	"divine" woman, the bride of Christ.  Just as the person of Christ
	cannot be replaced by an organization, so the bride cannot be re-
	placed by the Church.  The feminine, like the masculine, demands an
	equally personal representation.
		The dogmatizing of the Assumption does not, however, according
	to the dogmatic view, mean that Mary has attained the status of a
	goddess, although, as mistress of heaven...and mediatrix, she is
	functionally on a par with Christ, the king and mediator. At any
	rate, her position satisfies the need of the archetype. [par. 753-4]

: Jung should stick to Psychology rather than getting into Theology.

Jung made it clear that he was talking about psychology, not theology.  His
comments had to do with the psychological _image_ of God and its function
in the human psyche, not about the actual existence or nature of God.


In the New York Times on Sunday May 9th in the week in review
section there was a report of a group called "Space Marketing"
in Atlanta, Georgia who is planning to put up a one mile wide
reflective Earth orbiting satelite which will appear as large
and as bright as the Moon and carry some sort of advertising.
There was an editorial about this in the Times the following
Tuesday.

Are others as upset about this as I am?  I feel that a global
boycott of anyone involved with such a project would be a good
idea.  Perhaps it could be made illegal in various countries
around the world?  Do others agree?

-david

[Relevant messages found on the net:]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: webb@tsavo.hks.com (Peter Webb)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Stopping the sky-vandals
Date: 13 May 1993 21:17:22 GMT
Organization: HKS, Inc.
Distribution: world

If you don't want to see Space Marketing put up orbiting billboards, write
them, or call them, and tell them so.  You might also write your
congresspeople.  Space Marketing can be reached at:

Attn: Mike Lawson
Public Relations Dept.
Space Marketing
1495 Atmbree Rd., Suite 600
Rosewell, GA 30076
(404)-442-9682

--
Peter Webb 					webb@hks.com
Hibbitt, Karlsson & Sorensen, Inc.		Voice: 401-727-4200
1080 Main St, Pawtucket RI 02860		FAX: 401-727-4208

[Alternatively, you could try to find out who their clients
 will be and tell *them* how you feel.]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.misc,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: klaes@verga.enet.dec.com (Larry Klaes)
Subject: Light Pollution (Space Ads) Information
Keywords: light pollution, advertisements
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 20:45:36 GMT

        Dave Crawford (crawford@noao.edu), Executive Director of the
    International Dark-Sky Association (IDA), sent me information on where
    you can write in regards to the proposed "Billboards in the Sky" and
    asked me to post it:

        Karen Brown
        Center for the Study of Commercialism
        1875 Connecticut Avenue, Suite 300
        Washington, D.C. 20009-5728
        U.S.A.

        Telephone:  202-797-7080
        Fax:        202-265-4954

        Please note that I have no involvement whatsoever with the CSC.

        Larry Klaes  klaes@verga.enet.dec.com
		     or - ...!decwrl!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes
    		     or - klaes%verga.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com
                     or - klaes%verga.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net

             "All the Universe, or nothing!" - H. G. Wells

        EJASA Editor, Astronomical Society of the Atlantic
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Vandalizing the Sky
Date: 10 May 93 21:51:11 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: algol.jsc.nasa.gov

[...]
: That's roughly akin to saying let's let Anaconda strip-mine
: the Grand Canyon so that strip-mining can boldly go where no
: strip mining technology has gone before .. because after all,
: mining means profits, and profits mean technological advance-
: ment, and technogical advancement means prosperity, and pros-
: perity means happiness, and so to hell with the Grand Canyon ..

Space advertisement in LOW Earth Orbit is very short term -- on the
order of a few years before the orbit decays.  (Higher orbits last
longer.)  Advertisers will certainly be aware of the environmental
aspects of their advertising.  Fred's argument is roughly akin to
saying that it's bad to cut down trees, so we shouldn't advertise in
newspapers.  Think that through, Fred.

Picture this: Our space billboard is a LARGE inflatable structure,
filled with "bio-degradable" foam instead of gas.  It scoops up space
debris as it orbits, thus CLEANING the space environment and bringing
you The Pause That Refreshes at the same time.  Because of the large
drag coefficient, it will de-orbit -- safely burning up -- within a
year.

Embedded in the foam structure is a small re-entry vehicle, which does
not burn up during entry.  It contains the electronics and propulsion
system (which may be refurbished and re-used) as well as space science
experiments proposed and built by high school students in
advertiser-sponsored science fairs.

Advertisers buy time on the billboard, whose surface is made up of
tiny mirrors controlled by the avionics package.  The avionics can
reconfigure the mirrors to reflect different messages at different
parts of the globe.  Clever programming allows different languages
to every country.

During orbital night, the mirrors turn perpendicular to the surface,
and small lights are revealed.  The lights spell out messages for all
to see.

-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
      kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov  (713) 483-4368


Also known as, "leaning."

[severely confused rambling about the ground pushing...]

Contersteering refers to pushing the inside handlebar to effect a
lean.  No-hands countersteering is an oxymoron.


This is a very good point. I have already made the clear claim that
Khomeini advocates views which are in contradition with the Qur'an
and have given my arguments for this. This is something that can be
checked by anyone sufficiently interested. Khomeini, being dead,
really can't respond, but another poster who supports Khomeini has
responded with what is clearly obfuscationist sophistry. This should
be quite clear to atheists as they are less susceptible to religionist
modes of obfuscationism.

So, to answer your question, the only way you can judge is by learning
more about Islam, that is by reading the Qur'an and understanding it's
basic principles. Once one has done this it is relatively easy to see
who is following the principles of Islam and who is acting in a way at
odds with Islam. Khomeini by attributing a superhuman status to twelve
muslim historical leaders is at variance with one of basic principles
of Islam, which is that no human being is metaphysically different than
any other human being and in no sense any closer to God in metaphysical
nature.


Dear Friends,

Hi!

I need some information about the Organization ofISlamic Conference (OIC).    Does anyone know if there are books, articles, or journals that contains information regarding this organization?  If you know would you please send me an E.MAil at my address!  I thank you in advance and hope to hear soon since I need thisat present.

Regards!!


the prophets who were there when the foundation was laid for the house of the
LORD Almighty, let your hands be strong so that the temple may be built.


Uh, why do they have to ask a state commision? Unless the state's buying...

Such a process will only increace the overhead to the power company
of selling different types of light, and will decreace the likleihood
that they will do so. And any efficient lights they might have been
planning in the future, go down the drain.....

You could order it special. If enough people did so, it would be
low cost. Last I checked, you could use UPS to buy stuff in Arizona
before going there.

Finally, I'm sure your state has things like small factories and
machine shops. You could go into business making lights that are
cheaper to use (thanks to their higher efficiency and the
fact that they aren't wasting energy on broadcasting to space)
and therefore _better_ than the old style...

Five year plans have to be enacted or the planning for the economy
will fall apart.

As if the clean air act really cleaned up the air...

_MY_ *experience* seems to suggest that you're trying too hard
to *educate* them (with the same methods used in American schools
to make any subject whatsoever as relevant and boring as Proto-Ugric)
instead of *selling* them on the idea.

...

Well, wake up. Space is becoming a field of human endeavor
instead of just something we can look at from a long long
way away. There are practical space projects that could conceivably
(although probably not) cause lots of light pollution, and
have been argued against on those grounds, even though they
might open up such possibilities, that people could vacation on
Mars if they wanted really dark skies...


May 13, 1993  _Five Russian soldiers sentenced to death in Azerbaijan_

MOSCOW (UPI) -- Five soldiers who served in Russia's 7th army stationed in
Armenia were sentenced to death in the Azerbaijani capital Baku Thursday for
allegedly "carrying out diversions and killing 30 Azeri soldiers."

A statement released by the news service of Azeri President Abulfaz Elchibey
said "the sentence was final and was not subject to protest or appeal," the
Russian state news agency Itar-tass reported.

But the Russian Foreign Ministry issued an appeal for the men to be handed
over to the authorities in Moscow for punishment.

"This would accord with modern standards of humanity towards those who have
committed crimes," the statement reads.

The five men, together with another soldier who received a 15-year prison
sentence, were captured in September 1992 by Azeri police in the Kelbadzhar
district of Azerbaijan, between Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia.

The Supreme Court in Baku said the men had gone through special training in a
company of the Russian 7th army in the Armenian capital Yerevan, after which
they were sent across the Armenian-Azeri border into Nagorno-Karabakh to
carry out diversions against Azeri troops.

However, the Russian Foreign Ministry statement claimed they had deserted the
Russian army and were fighting as mercenaries with Armenian armed forces in
the battle zone round Karabakh.

Nagorno-Karabakh is an Armenian-populated enclave within Azerbaijan which for
five years has been fighting for independence from Baku in a war that has
left many thousands dead and uprooted hundreds of thousands from their homes.

Both Yerevan and Baku have always claimed that Russian servicemen stationed
in these Caucasian republics, who were left behind after the break-up of the
Soviet Union, are fighting as mercenaries in the Karabakh war.

The statement from Moscow said the Russian side repeatedly appealed to the
Azerbaijani government to show humanity and leniency in their treatment of the
six men, and to hand them over to the Russian authorities.

It said that President Boris Yeltsin himself sent a letter with this request
to his Azeri counterpart Elchibey. Itar-tass said that the soldiers' defense
attorneys had lodged an appeal for clemency.


Hello Ceci:

     My name is Tony and I have a few comments on your "rosicrucian"
adventure. I hereby state that I am not claiming or denying membership in
any Order, fraternity etc. with or without the word "Rosicrucian" in the
name of the organization. I only claim having done some "homework" :-)

     This is intended as a friendly article and if at times it seems
different, it's my lack of writing skills showing, nothing else. Heck,
English may be my second language! (And then again maybe not by now :-)

     I proceed:
     Let's start with the name "Rosicrucian". I took me a long time to come
to the conclusion that there is a difference between a *member* of a
"rosicrucian" body and BEING *a* ROSICRUCIAN. So when you say that you met
some 'rosicrucians' you mean "members of a group that calls themselves
rosicrucian". At least that is what your observation suggests :-)

     I'd prefer if you would have stated up front that it was the Lectorium
Rosicrucianum, only because they may be confused, by some readers of this
newsgroup, with the Rosicrucian Order AMORC based (the USA Jurisdiction) in
San Jose, CA; this being the RC org with the most members (last time I
looked). Of course, "most members" does not *necessarily* mean "best".

     Anyway, the Lectorium Rosicrucianum claims they
descend (at least in part) from what was the "Gold-und-Rosenkreuz" (Golden
and Rosy Cross), from the 18th century. There were two "Golden and Rosy
Cross", the first (chronologically) more alchemical, the second with
Masonic tinges, but their history is the subject of a complete chapter :-).

     "You'll have to trust me" when I tell you that if that
lecture/class/whatever had been presented by AMORC, it is unlikely that you
would have had the same impression, i.e., you'd probably have had a
positive impression more likely than a negative one, IMHO.

     Again, instead of R:s, it should be "Lectorium Rosicrucianum" :-). It
is curious to know that 3 other RC 'orders' (in the USA) claim to be *non-
sectarian*.

     The Cathars were a 'heretic' christian sect that directly challenged
the 'authority' of the medieval catholic church. They flourished during the
12th century, century which saw the religious zeal expressed in the
crusades and also the growing disillusion with the catholic church and the
worldly ways of its clerics. It was largely in response to the church's
unseemly pomp and splendor that Catharism took root, first in northern
Italy, then throughout the south of France.

     I don't see nothing *fundamentally* wrong with "us containing
something divine"... And yes I don't like phrases like "eternal bliss"
either! :-)

     For a moment I thought you were referring to Madison Ave :-)
(Madison avenue in New York City is where the most influential (read
$$$) *commercial* advertising is produced here in the USA :-)

Peace,

Tony


Mainly carbon dust with iron in a plastic binder that is melted on to the
paper.  Same stuff as dry paper photocopiers.

Allergies?  Haven't heard of any, but anything's possible with allergies ;-)


With your level of understanding, my dear friend Mutlu probably
thought that he'd be nice and help you genocide apologist to get
the point. Besides, all your article reflects is your abundant
ignorance. Ignorance is probably the main reason why you historical
revisionist are in such a mess. You even make Nazi/criminal Armenians
laugh.

 "In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.
  It is in our power to tear away the veil of illusion that some of us
  create for ourselves. It certainly is possible to severe the artificial
  life-support system of an imagined 'ethnic purity' that some of us
  falsely trust as the only structure that can support their heart beats
  in this alien land."
            (Sahak Melkonian - 1920 - "Preserving the Armenian purity")

"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the
 systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of
 the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at
 least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The
 memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and
 eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in
 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."
     (Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)

 1."Men Are Like That" by Leonard A. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis,
   1926

   Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and
   published by a member of American "Near East Relief Organization."
   Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem
   people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and
   Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities
   against the Turkish people in Armenia.

 2."Adventures in the Near East" by A. Rawlinson,
   Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925

   Eyewitness account of the same genocide by a British Army Officer.

 3."World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn,
   Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952

   Another eyewitness account of the same genocide by an American
   Officer.

 4."From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne" by Avetis Aharonian,
   The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17
   (Spring 1964)

   Memoirs of the chief Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference
   were published in the Armenian Review Magazine in 13 articles from
   Volume 15 (Fall 1962) to Volume 17 (Spring 1964). These memoirs
   include an interview between Aharonian and British Foreign Minister
   Lord Curzon in which above-mentioned genocide was discussed. The
   official report mentioned by Lord Curzon is the report of British
   High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop.

                    'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them and in
                     whatever circumstances you find them. Turkish children
                     also should be killed as they form a danger to the
                     Armenian nation.' (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)[1]

 [1] M. Varandian, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun," p. 85.

Source: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.
University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.

"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the
 area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population
 of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were
 Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.
 Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third
 of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the
 Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan
 uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians
 as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,
 however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the
 guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000
 inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character
 notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian
 Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the
 southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia."
 (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of
 Transcaucasia).

In 1920, '0' percent Turk.

"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as
 ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work
 of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village.
 Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts
 into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable
 and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets
 completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They
 found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border
 into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole
 length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to
 Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain
 plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of
 Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for
 howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the
 scattered bones of the dead."

                             Ohanus Appressian
                            "Men Are Like That"
                                   p. 202.

Serdar Argic


I've been following this train of talk, and the question of dismissing atoms as
being in some sense "not real" leaves me uneasy.

It seems to be implied that we obseve only the effects, and therefore the
underlying thing is not necessarily real.  The tree outside my window is in
this category... is observe the light which bounces off of it, not the tree
itself.  The observation is indirect, but no more so than observations I have
made of atoms.

Also, what about observations and experiments that have been routinely done
with individual atoms.  I am thinking in particular of atom trapping
experiments and tests of fundamental quantum mechanics such as the quantum Zeno
effect, where an individual atom is studied for a long period of time.

Some of the attempts at quantum mechanical arguments were not very satisfying
either.  One has to be carefull about making such arguments without a solid
technical background in the field.  What I read seemed a little confused a
quite a red herring.

Anyway, if the purpose of a public debate is to make the audience think, it
worked.  After doing so, I'm willing to try to defend the following assertion
if anyone cares:


Obviously not.  Count rates are too low and signal rise times too long
for this to be possible.  The CGRO, is, what, 10 meters long?  You'd
need to time to an accuracy of nanoseconds to do this.

What BATSE actually does is measure the relative strength in each of
the detectors (also as a function of photon energy).  Each of the
detectors does not have isotropic response.  To do this right one must
model the scattering of photons in the material around each detector,
and even scattering of photons off the Earth's atmosphere back onto
the spacecraft.  I believe they have now reduced the error to about 2
degrees.


Face it Mr. Beyer, you're just outmatched by us Israeli
intellectuals.  Any attempts to defend the deceitful,
undeserving Palestinians will prove fruitless!


Does anyone know how to configure a DOS app in Progman
so that only one instance of it can be running at a time?

I'd really appreciate some help on how to do this.  I
would prefer responses through email if it's not a big
deal, or at least through email _as well as_ posting.

Thank you!

--
James E. Lee
jelee@hamlet.ucdavis.edu


It looks like Ben Baz's mind and heart are also blind, not only his eyes.
I used to respect him, today I lost the minimal amount of respect that
I struggled to keep for him.
To All Muslim netters: This is the same guy who gave a "Fatwah" that
Saudi Arabia can be used by the United Ststes to attack Iraq . That
Fatwah is as legitimate as this one. With that kind of "Clergy", it might
be an Islamic duty to separate religion and politics, if religion
means "official Clergy".


= In article <1993Apr21.231552.24869@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>,
=
= Hmm, it seems that this is the core of Christianity then, you
= have to feel guilty, and then there's this single personality
= that will save you from this universal guilt feeling.
=
= Brian, I will tell you a secret, I don't feel guilty at all,
= I do mistakes, and I regret them, however I've never had this
= huge guilt feeling hanging over my shoulder.

I will tell you another secret.  I get this burning sensation in my
hand every time I hold it over a candle.  The pain does not fill my entire
body, and I'm told the longer I hold it here, the less it'll hurt (it'll
eventually burn up the nerves, or so I'm told).  So I suppose I should just
ignore the pain, because holding my hand over the candle is something I just
want to do. I've got the right, don't I?

Your body feels pain to let you know something is wrong.  It's your body's
alarm system informing you that something needs your attention.

A fever tells you that you are sick, and need some sort of care.

Guilt can be seen as that "emotional or spiritual" alarm, just informing you
that there is something that you've done that "requires your attention".

It doesn't require a "personality type" to become a believer.  It requires
someone who is willing to listen to themselves, their body & soul.

= All I know is that I don't know everything. And frankly speaking
= I don't care, life is fun anyway. I recognize that I'm not
= perfect, but that does not hinder me from have a healthy
= and inspiring life.

For several years all I knew is I really liked dropping 'cid (LSD).
Frankly speaking, I didn't really care.  It was fun anyway.

It didn't matter that every child my wife and I want to have are at a
*tremendously* greater risk of serious birth defects.

For several years all I knew is I really liked having sex with as many women
as I could convice.  Frankly speaking, I didn't care.

I didn't care that I was putting each one of them at risk (as well as their
future partners).

It didn't matter that for the first decade of my marriage, my wife and I
will have the worry that possibly that last sneeze meant something *much*
worse than a cold.

=
= There are humans that subscribe to the same notion. The nice
= thing is that when you finally shake off this huge burden,
= the shoulders feel far more relaxed!

The nice thing about pain killers, if you take enough, you won't care about
the fever, shortness of breath or pain.


Was it just me, or did it look like Hirschbeck pointed to
the 3B umpire before calling that strike?  I thought that's
why Gant was asking for the appeal to the 1st base umpire;
he thought Hirschbeck had gotten checked-swing help from the wrong
umpire.

After Hirschbeck called for the pitch, but before the pitch was thrown,
Cox came onto the field.  It was obvious that he was trying to get time
called before the pitch, but no one was watching.

Your listing pretty much agreed with what I saw, with the aforementioned
addendums.  Perhaps it appeared differently at the ballpark.  Personally,
I was amazed that Gant didn't get ejected.  But that's why Cox did;
it's called protecting your players.

And to those people who would have thrown everyone out of the game,
all I can say is that you'd be making baseball history.  Even in
the worst baseball brawls, usually only the major instigators are
ejected, not everyone who comes onto the field.  And I'd have to
say that those brawls are considerably more threatening to the game
 than what the Braves did Fri. night.

Anyhow, that's my last two cents on the subject, barring
outrageous postings.  I will try to keep my eyes open
for more incidents involving Hirschbeck. I think there will
be some with other teams as well.  I hope not.


The SEI. Software Engineering Institute, a DoD funded part of Carnegie Mellon
University.  You can read about part of it in Ed Yourdon's The Decline and
Fall of the American Programmer (Yourdon Press).

Just passing thru.....


	   I don't think the question is:
		   "will OS/2 X.X run Windows Y.Y apps now?"

	   A more important question is:
		   "will subsequent OS/2 versions continue to run apps
		   from subsequent Windows versions in the future?"
   --
   John A. Grant						jagrant@emr1.emr.ca
   Airborne Geophysics
   Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa

	But the most important question is:
		"will there be any OS2 apps, so we don't
		have to load windows in the future?"

	and maybe the question of the future will be:
		"will windows X.1 run OS2 Y.Y apps now?"

Regards Hans
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
The whales of the Atlantic and the people of the Faroe Islands
have coexisted in perfect harmony for the last 1000 years -
no matter what any urban navel contamplator without any real
relation to the coherence of the nature says.


But neither of them claimed to have experimental evidence that proved
them right. In a similar vein, there is as yet no experimental evidence
for supersymmetric particles; so some physicists believe in them, and
some don't -- but all agree that either there is an objectively true
answer to the question.

--
Mark Pundurs


Polysyllabic is polysyllabic too....


Hey, joe -- assuming you're old enough to remember it -- how did you feel
about presidential responsibility every time Reagan said "I don't recall"
about his arms-for-hostages meetings with the Ollie North gang?

How did you feel about it when Bush said he "was out of the loop on that
decision" when he was right there in the thick of it?

Oh, right.  "He was responsible in the sense that he was briefed, but so
what -- shit happens!"  Is that what you said?

--


I propose that PepsiCo, Mcdonalds and other companies could put
into orbit banners that have timely political messages, such as,

     "Stop the slaughter in Bosnia!"

, etc.


you may have been able to bounce the front up but not
actually do a "wheelie". see the shaft effect unloads
the rear susspension and effectivly loads the front.
this is why a shaft bike should accelerate if it starts
scraping in a corner......


..
try DraftChoice, its not windows but its shareware and object
oriented. Use it with PrintGL for high quality output.


Meta-exegesis: Conviction of Sin,  part II

Let me return to the question, stipulating that Paul meant his use of
_arseonkoitai_ to refer more or less exactly to the Levitical prohibition
of male-male sex.  In order to bring out the problems most clearly, I'll
also stipulate (what I think is far less plausible) that Paul coined the
term for this usage.  The question I want to turn to is what that would
mean for Paul's readers and for later Christians.  This should be shorter
than my last note, as we will see that this question rapidly confronts us
with some of the major divisions within Christ's body, and I am not trying
to open the gates for flames across any of the terrible chasms that
separate any of us from our fellow Christians.  My own biases (loosely
characterizable as "liberal") will be evident, but I am not grinding an
axe here, so much as trying to get all parties to see that it may be HARD
to reach "closure" when the issues involved strike at the heart of what we
each, in our own different ways, see as crucial to the Gospel of Christ.

So; stipulating Paul's intent, the immediate question is: HOW CAN HIS
READERS UNDERSTAND this intent?  And following on that question, there is
a second one: WHAT IS OUR PROPER ACTION if we *do* manage to understand him?

Since Paul gives not a single clue about his meaning in the text of 1st
Corinthians, there are two "positive" answers and one "negative" to this
question:

+	a.  Paul (or Apollos, or someone) in the apostolic community has
	    conveyed to the Corinthians the then-traditional Jewish condem-
	    nation of homosexual behavior, and Paul expects them to be
	    sufficiently well-tutored by this tradition that he needs no
	    futher explanation.  [I should note that there is no evidence
	    in the letter, or in 2 Corinthians for such a supposition :-)]

+	b.  The Spirit will teach us what Paul means (or, if not Paul,
	    what God means "behind" Paul's inspired word-choice.)

-	c.  We *don't* know, and cannot guess to within any better pre-
	    cision here than, for comparison, in the parallel use by Paul,
	    in the same passage of the word  _pleonektai_ ("those who have
	    more" -- if you think that _areseonkoitai_ is "obvious" from
	    its roots, try cutting your teeth on *this* word!  The NEB
	    translates it as "grabbers") or even _methusoi_ ("drunkards"
	    -- at least this has the advantage of being a common insult,
	    so that at least there is *some* hint as to its meaning!)

The three positions more or less -- if I can be allowed some exaggeration
for the sake of argument -- define a classical Catholic attitude towards
tradition, one form of Protestant _sola scriptura_, and a liberal/critical
demand for evidence.  All three positions have strengths and weaknesses.

_ad_ a:	It is unquestionable that the gospel was preached in and by the
	community of Christ's disciples and their successors, and that
	our NT scripture itself emerges from this communal tradition.
	But it's also the case that we know little or nothing about this
	tradition until almost a century after Paul, which is to say that
	we have access to the tradition only after several generations of
	possibly confused transmission.  The scripture is itself our only
	documentation of the tradition in the critical era.

_ad_ b:	If we are NOT born of water and Spirit [to revert to John in an
	attempt to explain Paul :-)], then we have no more hope of under-
	standing the gospel than Nicodemus had; neither the traditions of
	men nor the vain elevation of our own reason can prevent the Spirit
	from blowing where it will -- the Paraclete is a kamikaze.  But
	the downside of Protestant belief in the efficacy of the Spirit
	as our guide in scripture is that the wing of Protestantism that
	takes this most seriously is also the most fragmented over divergent
	understanding supposedly derived from the "clear" Word of God.

		[Note: classical Lutheran, Calvinist and Anglican thought
		constrains scripture to be read *within* tradition, even
		while reserving judgment against tradition out of scripture;
		the more bizarre forms of "I will read Scripture my way"
		are primarily a fringe aspect of "cultic" Protestantism.]

	The main problem with this approach is that there is apparently no
	means for ONE person to convey to another what that one may feel
	*is* teaching received from the Spirit; and history shows incredible
	conflict between Christians on this point, each in his own mind
	"convinced" that he is led by the Spirit.  No one can seriously
	urge point b without SOME sense of its potential for setting Christian
	against Christian.  To what purpose?

_ad_ c:	The critical approach has the distinct advantage that when it can
	reach a conclusion, it can lay out the data in a way which is open
	to all.  The weakness is an obvious corollary: this is not usually
	possible. :-)

	[If I may say a word here, out of my own already acknowledged bias;
	one complaint against critical methodology is that it "dissolves"
	faith -- but surely a "faith" that cannot honestly face the evalu-
	ation of evidence has problems which mere theology is helpless to
	address.]

Anyway, there is a serious and unfortunate possibility of schism between
"liberal" and "conservative" positions, mostly on the basis of extreme
zealots of positions b and c.  A Catholic sense of authority and tradition
tends to constrain arguments of b contra c to secondary position, so that
despite horrendous strains Rome is NOT as likely to find these issues as
ultimately divisive as the Protestant world will.  And Anglicans will (I
predict) muddle through on the _via media_, attempting to give each position
its due, but no more than its due.

Second question.  Suppose tradition tells us, and lots of "spiritual"
Christians tell us, and critical thought at least admits as possible,
that Paul is refering to a flat, universal Levitical prohibition against
male-male sex.  What then?  Again, we can abdicate our personal responsi-
bility to tradition, and let it dictate the answer.  But it's precisely
where inherited traditions are NOT questioned that they're most dangerous.

We have EXAMPLES of Christ questioning the Pharisees and THEIR use of
tradition (despite his urging, in Matthew 23:2 that we are to heed them).
We have EXAMPLES of Peter, and more radically still Paul, jettisoning the
traditions that THEY were led by the Spirit to call into question.  Jesus
and Peter and Paul do not so much "throw out" tradition as subject it to
radical criticism, on a couple of very basic grounds:

     "the weightier demands of the law: justice and mercy and good faith"
							(Matthew 23:23)
and  "On these two commandments [love God & neighbor] hand the whole Law,
      and the Prophets, also."
							(Matthew 22:40)

If there is a fundamental (because derived from Christ) validity in the
challenge to *some* traditions, a validity that led the first generation
to go so far as to waive application of the Torah to gentile converts
(vastly beyond anything that is directly deducible from Jesus' reported
words and deeds), it signifies to me a certain failure of the imagination
to *postulate* that *only* the traditions that we have specific challenges
against are in fact open to challenge.

All traditions passed *through* men are traditions *of* men.  That God may
lead us even so, that these traditions are a source of our spiritual
instruction I will freely grant.  But tradition is inherently human, and
inherently corruptible (and given the Fall, corrupt).  Nothing in it is
immune to challenge, when the Spirit shows us a failure in justice, mercy
and good faith.  Nothing may ultimately stand unless it DOES follow from
love of God and love of neighbor.

I am perfectly willing to grant that I could be blind to my own sin.  That
the Spirit may have taught another what She refuses to teach me (or I am
too dense to learn).  That tradition *might* have value here.  But what I
*know* of tradition is that on one occasion, some superstitious Christians
appealed to Justinian after an earthquake in Asia Minor, and scapegoated
"sodomites" as the "cause" of the earthquake, so that legislation was
passed making homosexual behavior a capital offense.  If that is in
accord with the gospel of Christ, then I am no Christian.  That is human
tradition at its most hateful and vicious.  And I see nothing all that much
different in all the unbidden eruptions onto USENET of people who are quick
to condemn but slow to understand.  If that is the leading of the Spirit,
then I want no part of it.  But what I have found in obedience to the Lord
is that I am, myself, TOTALLY dependent on the witness of other Christians,
for the truth that lives in the Body of Christ.

And I say to all who doubt that gay Christianity is from God what Gamaliel
said to doubting Pharisees who would have suppressed the earliest Church:

	"be careful how you deal with these people...  If this enterprise,
	this movement of theirs, is of human origin it will break up of
	its own accord; but if it does in fact come from God you will not
	only be unable to destroy them, but you might find yourselves
	fighting against God."
							[Acts 5:36...39]

All I ask is that you listen to your traditions, and read your scriptures
with a mind and soul OPEN to the Spirit, and to the past history of our
first Christian witnesses' willingness to challenge tradition and OTHER
readings of scripture -- though read with all the authority of scribes and
rabbis -- and a submission to the declaration that all must depend on the
love of God and neighbor.  Then, study the evidence; learn the history of
Christians oppressing Christians out of their traditions and eagerness to
judge where Jesus and Paul tell us NOT to judge.  And let the witness of
the Spirit in the lives of your fellow Christians -- including those who
are NOT of your preference in theology -- guide you towards God's truth.
--
Michael L. Siemon		I say "You are gods, sons of the
mls@panix.com			Most High, all of you; nevertheless
    - or -			you shall die like men, and fall
mls@ulysses.att..com		like any prince."   Psalm 82:6-7

[There's a certain ambiguity in your discussion of position (a), as to
whether you're speaking of tradition in Paul's time or ours.  I think
there are two ways to use tradition.  One is to say that when Paul and
his readers share a tradition, it makes sense to interpret his words
in the context of that shared tradition.  That's what makes me think
that these arguments over words turn out to be silly.  We know that
Paul came out of a background that was rather Puritanical on sex.
Everything else he says on sex is consistent with that background.
The tone of his remarks on homosexuality in Rom 1 is consistent with
that background.  Even if the words in the sin lists aren't the most
general terms for homosexual activity (and it seems to me that there's
some evidence that they are not), they are just one more piece of
evidence for something we would probably be willing to believe with no
evidence at all -- that Paul shares the common Jewish rejection of
homosexuality.

But when you identify (a) with the Catholic position, that's rather a
horse of a different color.  The Catholic position involves a
continuing church tradition.  Arguments specific to that tradition
might be (1) we can get guidance on how to interpret Paul's original
meaning from tradition, e.g. the way the Church Fathers interpreted
him, and (2) we gain confidence that his prohibitions still apply in
our time because of the universal judgement of the church between his
time and ours.  I think this is a somewhat different use of tradition.
A radical Protestant might be willing to use known 1st Cent.
tradition to illuminate Paul's original meaning, but not use the
Catholic position to answer the question of what our own attitude to
homosexuality should be.


I had exactly the same feeling.  I was depressed.  If you ever programmed
Windows and X11, you'd be depressed if an X conference touted its tutorials
to show you how to convert from X to Windows API.  Sort of like, "how to
convert your C++ classes to the new, improved C."

What happened?


I would just like to point out that the particular command not to eat
or fellowship with Gentiles is not found in the Old Testament.  This
was part of the "hedge built around the law."  It was a part of Peter's
tradition, and not the Scripture.


From article <1qvampINNmhf@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, by stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU:

I believe that this is not contradictory on the basis that
the quality of media reporting varies greatly based on the
subject at hand.  The media has proven itself very accurate
is the areas of presenting raw, undisputed data.  One good
example would be the weather page in which high and low
temperatures of the previous day for a large number of
locations are posting.  There is little evidence to show
that they are in error.

The American media has failed us in its analysis of complex
events, however.  I'm sure that we can come up with many
news stories that have left us angry because so many facts
have been ommitted.  Cases that come to mind are the
invasion of Panama, the war with Iraq, the disaster in Waco,
the issues surrounding the acceptance of gays into the
military, the war on drugs, and many others.

The story that you bring to light was regarding the new
sex survey.  While I'm sure that due to lazyness some of
the data was ommitted from the article, I would venture to
guess that the data that was presented did not deviate
from the survey.  I do, however, think that it would be
folly to have blind faith in a single newswriter's
analysis of this data.  In this particular case, there was
little analysis, and the reader was left to draw his/her
own convictions.

Many netters, Mr. Cramer included, often forget that the
American media are merely a number of businesses, who's
purpose in life is to make money for their owners and
stockholders.  Revenues come largely from advertisers
who merely want maximum useful exposure per dollar.  The
media is like fast food; the quality of the food (or of
the reporting) will improve only if the customers demand
as such.  Otherwise, it is business as usual.


This is such Bullshit.  Deir Yassin was an unprovoked attack on
the part of the Jews, and a massacre defines it best in my
opinion.  The village of Deir Yassin had had a pact with the
Jews, a peace pact, but the Irgun purposely broke this
agreement in order to scare off the Palestinians.  I might
grant that this village housed armed Arabs [I doubt it] but
nothing in the archives and available literature indicates that
this was a motivating force amongst the Irgun.  The Deir Yassin
MASSACRE was part of an over all strategy to intimidate the
Palestinians to flee the Jewish Homeland.,...and contrary to
your belief, many civilians were killed.  Deir Yassin was later
advertized by the very Jews who perpetrated it because it was
useful in getting many Palestinians to leave.  The Palestinians
were rightfully scared off, because they did not want another
Deir Yassin.
	I'm not necessarily condemning the Israelites here;
atrocities were aslo committed on the part of the Arabs.
Israelophiles should just be careful in thinking that they are
and were the good guys in the middle east.  Both Arab and Jew
suck equally.


Hi,

Thought I'd add something to the conversation.

My girlfriend used to work in a lab studying different natural carcinogens.
She mentioned once about the cancerous effect of barbecued food.
Basically, she said that if you eat barbecued foods with strawberries
(a natural carcinogen) the slight carcinogenic properties of both
cancel out each other.

--
Jeff Poupore
jtpoupor@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca


Is there a DOS screen capture utility -- PD or shareware -- that will
work reliably with VESA 6a 800x600 screens?


: This figure, is far below all the other figures I have seen.  If it
: is indeed accurate, then how do you explain the discrepancy between
: that figure, and other figures from international organizations?
: Most figures I have seen place the hit ratio close to 70%, which is
: still far higher than your 35%.  Or does your figure say a bomb
: missed if the plane took off with it, and the bomb never hit the target,
: regardless of whether or not the bomb was dropped?  Such methods
: are used all the time to lie with statistics.

Answering the last sentence, claimed that they had a success rate of 80%
without initially explaining, until pressed, that this meant that 80%
of the aircraft came back having dropped their bombs somewhere, regardless'
of whether they had hit the intended target, or indeed anything al all.


I saw Messier and Leetch shooting at a camera on Letterman(?).  I
could have been any show though, since I watch NONE of those late
night shows very regularly.
					-John Santore

Philadelphia Flyers in '93-'94!

=============================================================================
 ____________________
/                    \                   "We break the surface tension
\_________     ____   \                   with our wild kinetic dreams"
/             /    \   \                        -Rush, Grand Designs
\_______     /  (*) )   )
/           / /\___/   /                 Go Philadelphia Flyers!
\_____     / /        /
/         /  \_______/                   John Santore (jsbh@andrew.cmu.edu)
\________/


Speaking of ME's. The FBI said the fire victims were found face-up
<fire victims, apparently, are usually found face down>
suggesting they died prior to the fire. The ME says, in a word,
BULLSHIT, the victims WERE face down. The FBI says they sent a body
of a victim that was shot, supposedly by BD guards, the ME
says, in a word, BULLSHIT, the body showed NO evidence of gunshot
wounds. Can the ATF/FBI tell the difference between CYA and truth?


I've recently joined the Motif world, so I'd like a similar tool for
Motif.  I've bene used to the OpenWin one in the past and miss it.

Cheers,

[M][a][r][c]


O.K., only one series is done.  But I need to post something.

By the way, the Islanders just scored.

Rank Team Name                  Points   Final 4
  1. roland_behunin                  5   CAL-6 QUE-7 QUE-7
  2. Milton_Keynes_Kings             0   DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5
     Barfly                          0   TOR-6 BOS-7 TOR-6
     Dean's                          0   DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-7
     Oz                              0   LAK-6 BOS-6 LAK-6
     Garry                           0   TOR-6 BOS-6 BOS-4
     Brian_Bergman                   0   DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6
     Mopar_Muscle_Men                0   CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5
     BH's_Last_Place_Picks           0   CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5
     Dave_Wessels                    0   VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5
     Sam_&_His_Dogs                  0   DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5
     Ye_Ding                         0   DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-6
     Tampere_Stars                   0   CHI-6 PIT-6 PIT-6
     The_Mighty_Hedgehogs_Of_Myllyp  0   CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-6
     Homesick_Hawaiian               0   VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5
     Killer_Kings                    0   CHI-6 WAS-6 CHI-6
     Puggy_Greybeards                0   DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5
     Ottawa_Bearcats                 0   TOR-5 PIT-6 TOR-6
     Andrew_Kirk                     0   TOR-6 PIT-6 PIT-5
     Muller_n_Walker                 0   DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6
     Excalibur                       0   DET-6 PIT-4 PIT-6
     Rednecks_from_Hockey_Hell       0   DET-7 BOS-5 BOS-5
     The_@$%@#$%_Rangers_of_1940     0   CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-6
     Jeff_Phelps                     0   DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-5
     Arctic_Circles                  0   DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-4
     Sludge                          0   DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6
     The_Logistician                 0   DET-6 PIT-6 DET-7
     Hillside_Raiders                0   CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-7
     Danielle                        0   CHI-5 QUE-7 QUE-7
     Stanias_Stars                   0   CHI-6 BOS-7 BOS-6
     BloodHook                       0   DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5
     Gilles_Carmel                   0   CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-7
     Pasi_Fr{nti                     0   LAK-7 PIT-5 PIT-6
     Evan_Pritchard                  0   VAN-6 PIT-6 PIT-5
     Skriko_Wolves                   0   DET-7 PIT-5 PIT-5
     Rangers_Blow                    0   CAL-7 PIT-6 PIT-4
     Sean                            0   DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-6
     Schott_Shooters                 0   CHI-6 PIT-5 PIT-5
     Gary_Shiff                      0   TOR-4 PIT-6 PIT-4
     Mike_Burger                     0   DET-7 PIT-6 DET-7
     Darse                           0   DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6


Ethics deal with individuals.  Morals deal with groups.

Please describe these "number of ways" in detail.  Then explain any
contradictions that may arise.

The sentence, "Yes, it's possible, but it is difficult."  Humans survived
"in the wild" for hundreds of thousands of years.

Answer the question, Keith.  Is homosexuality detrimental to the survival
of the species?