Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #015
                 Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh

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         |                                                           |
         | . . . They beat up the husband, dragged the wife outside, |
         | and stood her naked next to our burning things; her       |
         | husband was lying at her feet on the ground. The crowd    |
         | shouted, "Look at the naked Armenian!" They were going to |
         | throw the poor woman into the fire...Mamma wouldn't allow |
         | it but I went to the window and saw her standing there,   |
         | and they took skewers that had been heated in the fire    |
         | and stuck them into her body.                             |
         |                                                           |
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DEPOSITIONS OF:

ZINAIDA POGHOSOVNA HAKOPIAN

   Born 1937
   Dispatcher
   Kavkazenergoremont Electric Booster Station

   Her daughters

GAYANE (GAYA) VAZGENOVNA HAKOPIAN
   Born 1970
   Orderly
   Sumgait Municipal Hospital No. 1

DIANA VAZGENOVNA HAKOPIAN
   Born 1978
   Second-Year Student
   Sumgait Secondary School No. 13

   Residents at Building 21/31, Apartment 47
   Microdistrict No. 3
   Sumgait [Azerbaijan]

-Zinaida: On March 20 we arrived in Yerevan, and the next day they registered
us at the train station and took us to the boarding house. The conditions were
wonderful, thanks to our Armenians, who received us. But it's not relaxing all
the same. I don't know how everyone else feels about it, but for me it's
torture. We don't have a place to call our own. I had a two bedroom apartment
in Sumgait, my children went to school and we lived well, in friendship. It's
painful that in our times, in 1988, in the Soviet period, people can break
into our apartment and try to kill me and my children, in whom I've put all my
efforts and my whole youth. Everything was going well for us: my older
daughter was studying at the Institute, the middle one was preparing to enter
medical school and was interning as an orderly, and my youngest had been sick
for a long time, but had returned to health. I have been though a lot in my
life: it's been seven years since I lost my husband, I raised my children by
myself. Lots of women have similar fates, but there's nothing to be done about
it. But I can't control myself when I remember what happened in Sumgait on
February 27, 28, and 29, it was just a horror, it's indescribable.

On February 27 our relative, Ira, came to visit us. She's better friends with
my oldest daughter, and so right away she asked, "Where's Vika?" I say,
"Vika's off in Pirkuli on a trip for three days, she's supposed to come back
tomorrow." My middle daughter, Gaya, had baked a cake and we sat there talking
and laughing, drinking tea. Then Gaya and Diana went to walk Ira home.

They left and a few minutes went by; suddenly I hear noise. I raced out to
the balcony--our balcony is right across from the bus station, we live at the
corner of Mir and Druzhba Streets--I look and see that there are hoards of
people near the bus station and they're all shouting something. What they're
shouting I can't understand. Our neighbor is standing on his balcony, too. I
ask, "Nufar, what's happened?" He says, "I don't know, I can't figure it out
either." I got scared--the kids had gone outside, and I wanted to run after
them, but then there was a knock at the door. I open the door and it's the
kids. "Mamma," says Gayane, "you'll never believe what's going on out there!
It's awful!" Ira says, "Aunt Zina, they're shouting, 'Karabagh! Karabagh!
Karabagh is ours!' We didn't know what was going on. They're threatening to
drive out the Armenians and slaughter them."

I called my brother, and his wife answered the phone. I said, "Aunt Tamara,
don't worry, Ira is staying here with us, and we'll see her home later." I
couldn't shut my eyes all night long, even until morning. I was worried about
Vika. My God, what was going on, what had happened?!

-Gayane: That day, on the 27th, we stood on the balcony and observed what was
happening, although Mamma wouldn't allow us to watch all of it. There weren't
50 yards between our building and the bus station. We could see and hear
everything perfectly. They were stopping buses, dragging people out, leading
all the passengers out, looking for Armenians. If they found an Armenian on
the bus, then it started . . .I don't know what to call it . . .

-Zinaida: It's called slaughter.

-Gayane: The mob would descend on people and beat them. I don't know if they
were killing them or not, but when they left them, they lay still, not moving,
as though nothing was left of them. One person was lying there and they
started dragging him. The police were standing right there, to the side, not
doing anything, they didn't take any steps to calm that mob.

It was awful to stand there and watch it all from the balcony. And you
couldn't go anywhere, somehow . . . you wanted to be able to see everything
so as to tell of it later. We wanted to leave Sumgait that day. What kept us
was the idea that we live in the Soviet Union, and that something would be
done about it. Where in the world was our government?!

-Zinaida: We couldn't leave town, of course, because our older daughter wasn't
home. And at the same time I was terrified for Gaya and Diana. On Sunday
morning when I went to see Ira home, our neighbor said, "Zin', you know they
went into Valodya's house and smashed everything he had. They murdered his
father and two sons." Valodya is our neighbor, he's an Armenian, he lives on
the first floor. I think, my God, what is happening?! And in broad daylight!

I saw Ira home and when on the way back I came across a mob shouting "Slay the
Armenians! Karabagh is ours!" This was at 12 o'clock in the afternoon. On the
way I stopped into a bread store and the saleswoman says, "They beat our store
manager, they thought he was an Armenian and they beat him, but he was an
Azerbaijani." And I asked, "Did they kill him?" She says, "No, he's in serious
condition." I left there and started to walk home on that same street, but the
mob started moving in my direction. I turned off the street and went down the
little way that goes toward the Sputnik store. There I met another crowd, but
these weren't bandits, these were our people from Sumgait. I was so frightened
that I walked without knowing where was going, I couldn't feel my legs or the
ground under my feet. I was walking and there was a boy standing before my
eyes. This was on the 27th, around evening time. He ran under our balcony, and
the mob surged toward him shouting, "He's an Armenian, get him!" He wore a
black coat. They grabbed him, that boy, near the bus stop, I saw it. They
grabbed him by the legs and struck his head on the asphalt.

I made it home but I just couldn't calm down. My oldest daughter was in my
thoughts. I was thinking, my daughter's coming home now, they'll stop her bus
and she'll be gone. There's no police, no protection, nothing. It's like they
had all died, there's no one, nothing, no authorities whatsoever. I can't even
find the words for it! I look and see an Ikarus arriving. Before going to the
bus station they stop near our place, across from the Kosmos movie theater. So
this Ikarus stops  there and the gang is yelling, the Azerbaijanis are running
toward it yelling, "Armenians out!" And I see them take the Armenians and beat
them, killing them. I can't watch it any more. It was a nightmare. I just
couldn't watch it. But Gaya was standing there watching it, and I scolded her.
She says, "Mamma, I have to see it, I have to know what's happening, I have to
see it with my own eyes so I can tell our people of it later. So our children
will know."

Gayane: We saw a great deal on the 27th. They caught no less than 20 people
before my eyes. I can't say for sure if they killed them or not . . .

-Zinaida: There were too many people there, the mob was too big. You couldn't
make anything out. But I saw that boy in the black coat with my own eyes. He
was 18 or 19 years old.

-Gayane: I think he was older, probably, about 22. A tall fellow, a big guy,
in a coat. He was walking quickly, but when they shouted that he was an
Armenian, he tore off running. And the mob went after him. They caught him
right under our balcony. I don't know. I don't think there could have been
much left of him after that. You can imagine what happens when a crowd attacks
one person. It was a mob, big, angry, and featureless. You know, there was a
similarity in the way they were dressed, mostly they were wearing long black
coats. You couldn't even tell them apart, they were all wearing black and they
all looked alike.

-Zinaida: When they picked up that boy and struck him against the asphalt and
he cried "Mamma!" I ran into the room. I couldn't watch any longer. An awful
lot was going on right then, in various places, it wasn't only that boy,
several people were being beaten up. You couldn't see all of it at once, but
when that boy cried "Mamma!" I immediately started watching only him.

-Gayane: On that first day it went on from about six in the morning until
twelve at night. At midnight they dispersed and the police took their place.
They were scattered about in all districts. But how can you explain the fact
that by morning, when it had already started getting light, around seven
o'clock, our police were gone? The police disappeared and yielded their
positions to the bandits. In the morning they started gathering at our inter-
section again, at the bus station and at the entrance to downtown. From
morning on all the roads and mass transit stops were covered, and by nine
o'clock you couldn't even see the ground. There were thousands of people in
the crowd. Again they began stopping vehicles and checking for Armenians.

-Zinaida: They had signals. I realized that when I noticed that they made a
cross with their arms, they crossed their arms over their heads. The cross,
evidently, meant that the vehicle had Armenians in it. They let the
Azerbaijani cars through, and they stopped the Armenian ones and started
their pogrom.

-Gayane: They stopped a white Zhiguli and asked the driver what his
nationality was. He got out and said they were from Baku. "But what is your
nationality?" He says Armenian. They immediately start shouting, "Ermeni,
Ermeni!" And he says, "What's going on? I'm coming from Baku. I don't live
in Sumgait." "Doesn't matter, who cares if you're from Baku or Sumgait."
Anyway the crowd pounced on him and started beating him, and they dragged a
woman--his wife, probably--out of the car. At this point the police came and
took the two and led them away. Then the mob started smashing the car, and
then burned it. The flames blazed . . . it was a horrible fire! Then everyone
ran away, they thought the car was going to explode. About 20 minutes later
another car comes along, a green Moskvich. They ran up shouting "Ermeni!
Ermeni!" But this time they didn't pull the people out of the car, they didn't
beat them. Maybe they burned them along with the car, because no one emerged
from the flames. The neighbor boy Vakhit was standing on the balcony too,
acquaintances of his walked by below, and he asked them and they said, "Yes,
they burned them along with the car." About two hours later a whole wedding
procession came by, and there was a doll on the first car. We thought they
were Armenians, but the cars started to honk loudly. They were Azerbaijanis,
and they were immediately allowed through.

-Zinaida: The driver waved his hand as if to say 'get out of the way.' The
whole crowd parted and the procession passed through freely.

-Gayane: By the way, at the marriage hall, which is right in the courtyard
of our building, there was a wedding that day. The Azerbaijanis were cele-
brating and dancing. On the streets there was grief and death, people were
being killed, and people were celebrating the whole time.

-Zinaida: Before the apartment itself was attacked I asked Gaya to call and
find out when the tourist bus was supposed to arrive. She went to her
girlfriend's in the building, she lives in the first entryway, on the third
floor. Gaya came back and said, "Mamma, the bus is supposed to come around
eight, after eight." You can imagine what I was feeling, how hard it was:
Vika knew nothing about what was happening and was coming to meet her death.
Then I heard shouting. I raced to the window and see that the belongings of
our neighbors from the second entryway are being thrown outdoors. They were
thrashing about with the pillows and the feathers were lying like snow. I
started to cry. I am walking around the room, crying, wailing: Vika's not
here, what will come of her . . . Gaya, of course, was consoling me: "Mamma,
nothing will happen to her, don't worry, calm down, she's in good company,
they'll look out for her."

Diana: I saw the green car burn. The car was burning when we went out onto the
balcony. Gaya pushed me away, telling me to get off the balcony. I left. Then
they came up to the balcony and asked if there were any Armenians here.

-Zinaida: You're right, I forgot about that, that was on the 27th.

Diana: There's a small, grassy area in front of our balcony; there are trees
planted there. The mob asked if there were any Armenians in the building.
All the neighbors said, no, there are no Armenians here. There weren't a lot
of Armenians in our building, but there weren't just a few Armenian families,
either.

-Gayane: They fell upon the apartments on the 28th. There were terribly many
of them. Our courtyard is huge, and it was completely filled with them.

-Zinaida: Katusev had made an appearance on television earlier. He said that
two people, Azerbaijanis, had been killed in Karabagh. And when he said that
. . . you know how bees sound, have you heard how they buzz? It was like the
buzzing of millions of bees . . . and with this buzzing they flew into our
courtyard, howling and shouting. I don't know how to describe it. By this
point we were afraid to watch from the balcony, but when I looked out of the
bedroom window--the Znaniye Bookstore is down there, and Armenians live on the
second and fourth floors--I saw their things being thrown out the windows. I
realized that they would be upon us any minute. I shouted to Gayane, "Gaya,
hide the gold." That's honestly what I told my child. I grabbed Diana. I
didn't know what to do! Vika still wasn't home, and it was already getting
dark. I was afraid to look at the time because I was already horrified as it
was.

-Gayane: Just in case, we changed the television channel from the Moscow
station to the Azerbaijani one.

-Zinaida: And turned it up loud.

-Gayane: We never listened to Azerbaijani music. It just didn't do much for
us. In all those years we almost never listened to it. But sometimes we would
watch some entertainment show or film on Azerbaijani television. And that was
it. And here we had it turned up full blast. So they would think we were
Azerbaijanis.

-Zinaida: Well you can imagine, they're slaughtering Armenians, robbing them,
and we're listening to this concert music from Baku. Our Azerbaijani neighbors
suggested we do it, they knocked on the door and told Gaya to turn on
Azerbaijani music. But we already had it on anyway. Turn on the lights, they
told us, so they will think you're not Armenians. They're saying the Armenians
are afraid to turn on their lights, they're hiding.

-Gayane: Apparently there was some kind of arrangement, because we noticed
that the lights were off only in Armenian apartments, that is, the
Azerbaijanis were warned, and every last one of them had their lights on.
When we turned the lights off two of our neighbors came immediately, and
later, another one. "Turn on the lights," they told us, "please. Nothing will
happen. Be calm. Nothing will happen."

-Zinaida: "We won't allow them to come into your apartment."

-Gayane: We believed those people. We had never done anything bad to them.

  -Zinaida: After the whole nightmare, about March 15, before we left for
Armenia, when I was coming into the building they were all crying. The
Azerbaijanis were crying, saying, "Can it be there is no God? How could
they raise their hands against your family? You never did anyone any harm,
you never refused anyone anything, not in hard times, or in time of fortune,
or in time of mourning. How could they give you away? How could they sell you
down the river?" They really had given us away. Some of them protected us, but
others gave us away. They sold us down the river.

-Gayane: I was wearing slacks that day, and when it all began I became
cautious for some reason and I changed my clothes. Azerbaijani women don't
wear pants. Young Armenian and Russian girls in Sumgait wore pants, but the
Azerbaijanis found that very strange. And I thought I better put on a skirt,
otherwise they won't believe me if I told them we were Azerbaijanis. There was
nothing else we could do. No other way out. I was forced to turn myself into
God knows who. I let my hair down, tousled it, and threw a scarf over my head.

-Zinaida: And she told me, "Mamma, you hide. Take Diana and go into the other
room. You two look more like Armenians. They'll figure out that we're
Armenians right away." But how could I go away and leave her there?!

-Gayane: I went out onto the balcony. It worked out better that way. We were
the only Armenian family in the fourth entryway. This gave us hope: we were
the only ones, the neighbors wouldn't let them in. They, the Azerbaijanis,
would fear for themselves and for their children. I looked and saw someone
crawling up on the balcony from below, it was easy to get up onto our balcony.
When we would lose the keys the neighbors would let up into their places and
we would crawl across onto our balcony and get in that way. So I turned around
and saw a guy with a knife on our balcony. He looks at me and shouts, "What
nationality are you here?"

-Zinaida: At the same time they were knocking on the door.

-Gayane: "What nationality are you?" he's shouting. Well at first I was
frightened, but then I got control of myself and answered in perfect
Azerbaijani, "You should be ashamed of yourself, asking a question like that.
Can't you see I'm an Azerbaijani? If I were an Armenian would I come out to
meet you face to face and look you in the eyes?" He looks at me and tells the
people with him, "Yes, Azerbaijanis live here." From below they tell him,
"Check it out, it can't be, they have to be Armenians." And he asks me again,
"What nationality are you?" I say, "Can't you see?" I started fuming. I could
not say anything else. "You're blind, that's for sure! You can yell all you
want, but that won't make us Armenians." I hear them breaking down our
door, and Mamma went toward the door. I say, "I don't have time to deal
with you, they're breaking down our door." 1 go to the door and ask, "Who is
it?" They answer, "Open up!" I say, "Wait, why are you breaking the door?
What's going on? I'm opening up." We never locked the lower lock, it was
broken, but now they had locked it out of fear, and I couldn't get it open. I
say wait, I'm looking for the key. I opened the door--it was almost broken
down already. I opened the door and they burst in. I say, "What's going on?
Why are you breaking down our door?"

-Zinaida: Then they started climbing in from the balcony. They're shouting,
"Why don't you open the door?" And I say, "Well you've already come in the
balcony." Then Diana sees their knives, runs into the bathroom, and closes the
door. Gaya cries out, "Mamma, Diana ran into the bathroom!" I ran to the door
and forgot that we were pretending to be Azerbaijanis, and said in Armenian:
"Diana, open the door!" Gaya tried to calm them down, and I'm shouting with
tears in my eyes for Diana to open the door.

-Diana I was sitting on the couch with my doll, Little Red Riding Hood. That
guy climbed in from the balcony with a big knife with a yellow handle. They
put it up to Mamma's stomach. I ran to the bathroom, opened the door, and
slammed it behind me. I was frightened, and started to cry. I shouted, "Mamma,
they want to kill you!" And then . . . then they started shouting, "Give us
your passports." And Gaya says, "What do you need passports for, we're
Azerbaijanis."

-Gayane: I tried to convince them that we were Azerbaijanis, I was trying
everything I could, I could get on my knees and plead. I could humble myself,
because at that moment I was worried about other lives than just my own. To be
honest I didn't care about anything else, as long as my little sister would
survive, her life and health had cost us so dearly! I tell them, "What, don't
you understand anything?" They started shouting, they were tremendously
excited, shouting with terribly loud voices, saying that in Stepanakert their
girls were being killed, raped, and tossed around with pitchforks. Why
shouldn't they do the same to us? I said, "Who's doing all that? Who is doing
it? Some Armenians! What does that have to do with us? Give me the knife, I'll
cut my own face." "Now you calm down," they tell me.

Zinaida: I told them, "Why didn't you deal with them there! There, in
Karabakh? Nothing has happened here, no one has been fighting here, not we
with the Armenians, nor they with us. Why didn't you give it right back to
them there? What've we got to do with this?" I got confused. I had been
saying that we were Azerbaijanis, but suddenly I started speaking as though
I were an Armenian, but they didn't notice. One of them was next to me,
with a knife at my breast. And he says to the others, "What pretty girls." He
meant Gaya and my 10-year-old Diana. I was terrified. Gaya started assuring
them that we were Azerbaijanis. One guy stood in the doorway and gave us bad
looks.

-Gayane: He demanded the passports. I said, "Young man, I don't have my
passport here." He says, "Let's have the passport, we won't believe you
without your passport." And one of them started hurriedly searching for
documents. They turned the wardrobe in the other room upside down, took the
picture off the wall, and started pulling the clothes off their hooks, yelling
and shouting, "Passport! Passport!" They all started yelling, there was so
much noise in the apartment. They were all shouting. My hair stood on end.
Suddenly I said, "Listen, my Papa died, 40 days haven't passed yet, we have a
Muslim household, we're in mourning, you should be ashamed of yourselves,
you've disgraced your honor." And then Mamma started to cry.

-Zinaida: I started crying: "My husband died, 40 days haven't yet passed,
aren't you ashamed of yourselves!" In fact my husband had died seven years
earlier, in 1981. "We're in mourning, and you burst in here demanding docu-
ments. The documents are at the housing office, I'm filing for my pension."
Well it seemed like they believed us. Then one guy said, "They're Lezgins.
Can't you see, there are no men here, only women. Leave." Another fellow in
the group agreed with him, he also said that we were Lezgins. But a third
said, "No, they're Armenians." Well the other two convinced him, I don t know
how, and all the rest of them listened to them too. There were about 50 of
them, if not more, all in our three-room apartment, even the entryway was
filled. They started leaving. Yes, we're Lezgins, we're Lezgins." They started
leaving, and one of them took our tape recorder with him. And the one who had
first called us Lezgins says, "Leave that, what are you doing?" They seemed to
obey that guy.

-Gayane: He was tall, wearing baggy jeans and a coat.

-Zinaida: With a little moustache, I think.

-Gayane: No, he didn't have a moustache, he was tall with brown hair, he
wasn't a bad-looking sort. He didn't have anything in his hands.

-Zinaida: He stood at the threshold.

-Gayane: Yes, he didn't look like a bad guy, and you know, his face seemed
familiar to me. I had seen him somewhere. And more than once. But I can't
remember where. When he came in I was stupefied, I had a premonition that he
wouldn't be able to remain indifferent. When he said that we were Lezgins and
that they should leave, such gladness started to glow inside of me. Hope. They
continued to argue on their way out. Some said, "They're Armenians all the
same." And that fellow answered, "even if they are Armenians, it's shameful,
the father died, they're mourning, there's nothing but women in the house,
there's no men. We should stay out of the apartment." "What do you mean, stay
out? We can go in there!" And he said, "No, we should stay out, they're
Lezgins, we're leaving here." The three of them protected us.

   -Zinaida: No, the two of them. The one in the short coat and the one in the
grey suit, who stood at the threshold, about 19 or 20 years old. Well they
were all young really. The two of them defended us.

-Diana: Three, three!

-Zinaida: Do you remember the third one, Diana?

-Diana: Yes, he was wearing dark clothes.

-Gayane: The third one was the one who came back. He wore a long brown coat.

-Diana: He wore a long, darkish brown coat, and his hair was dark too. When
they left, they told him downstairs that those women were Armenians, and ran
back and said that they were going to kill us.

-Zinaida: They had all left, and we had started to calm down a little, and I
closed the door. And then there is a knock. I told Gaya, "Take Diana and go
into the other room." My daughters went into the dining room, and I opened the
door. There was a guy there who said, "Run, hide! They're coming to kill you
now!" We ran up to the third floor. We had some good neighbors up there,
Azerbaijanis. I sent the kids and stood there alone, not knowing what to do.
I was so far gone . . . Out of a whole room I couldn't even think of anything
to take. I even forgot to take my work documents; at the time I had been
preparing a report to send to Baku, and the documents were at home. I couldn't
see anything . . . I could only see Vika, my older daughter. I sent Gaya and
Diana upstairs, and stood there asking that fellow, "Should I close the door
and leave everything like this?" He says, "What do you mean, door? Get out of
here, they're coming to kill you! What are you standing there for?" And I ran
after the children.

-Gayane: We barely had time to get up to the third floor when they burst into
our apartment and started shouting, "Where are the Armenians?" We were already
at the neighbors'. They had an infant at the time, and the neighbor said,
"Don't you worry, I'm not letting anyone in this apartment no matter what."

-Zinaida: On the third floor there I started asking the folks, our neighbors,
to go meet Vika. The bus was due to arrive at eight o'clock. I dissolved in
tears, Gaya was soothing me, Diana was next to us, she was crying too, and I'm
already thinking that I've lost my older daughter, but deep in my heart I
still believe she's alive . . . And my tears choked me. I was going out of my
mind. But no one could leave the building, the courtyard was packed with
people, swarming with them. From the balcony the neighbor in whose apartment
we were hiding asked the bandits, "Where are those Armenians, the ones who
were at home? Where did they make off to?" They told him they didn't know.
They asked him where he lived. He answered, "Can't you see, on the third
floor." He asked them specially to divert attention from his own apartment. We
heard them taking free reign of our apartment, and they threw our color
television off the balcony and it exploded.

-Gayane: Mamma was crying the whole time. She fell into a faint and we brought
her around and held her back, because the whole time she kept making for the
door to go outside, alternately raving and sobbing, shouting, and calling
Vika. She didn't notice us, probably because we were next to her. Her thoughts
were only on Vika. The neighbors who were hiding us were calming her too,
offering tea.

-Zinaida: We are very grateful to them. Thanks to them my children and I are
alive, well, and unharmed. When they were throwing our belongings out and
burning them--the beds, the pillows, and the chairs--our neighbor came to us
and said, "How lucky you are that it's not you standing there naked, but some
other woman instead. You're from our part of the building you lost your
husband, you have children, thank God you're not in her position, we wouldn't
have been able to take it. I don't know what I would do." He of course
wouldn't have done anything, he was just trying to calm us down. In the yard
they were torturing our neighbors, fellow Armenians They lived on the fifth
floor, in the third entryway. A married couple, Vanya and Nina, and their
three children. Their last name is V. They hid their two daughters, and stayed
with their son to defend themselves, they even got boiling water ready, and an
axe, and held them off for a long time, but the . . . They beat up the
husband, dragged the wife outside, and stood her naked next to our burning
things; her husband was lying at her feet on the ground. The crowd shouted,
"Look at the naked Armenian!" They were going to throw the poor woman into the
fire. The neighbors came out, an Azerbaijani woman threw her a scarf, and she
covered herself with it, and the neighbors led her off to their apartment.
All the neighbors saw and heard it . . .

-Gayane: Mamma wouldn't allow it but I went to the window and saw her standing
there, and they took skewers that had been heated in the fire and stuck them
into her body. Our neighbor, who lived in the same entryway as Nina--she
lives with us in the same boarding house now--saw what they had done, Nina
showed her, from her knees up, almost up to her neck, her whole body was
covered, riddled, with wounds.

-Zinaida: In the morning, during the night of the 29th, rather, after one
o'clock, two buses approached the station. I wanted to run out. By then I
didn't care any more if I lived or died, but Gayane wouldn't let me go, and
the neighbors said that I would bring disaster to them and they would be
slain along with their children. Gaya was crying and said that I forgot about
them, my other children, but I could only think of Vika. I imagined her torn
to pieces, I'm a mother, and they're just children, they don't understand I
would have jumped off the balcony and run to the soldiers for help. I was
going to do it but Gayane wouldn't let me: "Mamma, please! Mamma, I beg of
you!" The neighbors were sleeping and Gayane woke them with her cries. So we
held on that way till morning.

On the morning of the 29th I told our neighbor I was going to go downstairs to
our apartment, maybe Vika was lying there, murdered. He told me he would go
himself. He was gone for about five minutes, but it seemed like an eternity to
me. He returned and said there was no one there, nothing. I went down too,
stole down like a mouse, and slipped in everything was thrown all about. I
didn't go to the soldiers because the armored personnel carriers were far
away, farther than the bus station. I began looking for the briefcase with my
work in it. I was miserable because of my daughter, and at the same time
because of my work. My documents were there, my travel papers--I worked in the
transport division -- and my trip sheets.

-Gayane: Mamma is a very responsible person, she was always ready to work
around the clock to do her job.

-Zinaida: I look around and I can't find the briefcase. I didn't care about
the fact that everything had been stolen out of all three of my rooms, that
everything was smashed, and the furniture was broken, I worried about that
later, but at first I was concerned about the lost documents. I went into the
kitchen. My daughter had hidden some valuables in the gas stove: my ring and
my earrings. It was all there. Five minutes passed and Gayane ran in and said,
"Mamma, hurry." And Diana came downstairs too. Gayane found  her coat among
the debris, and Diana found her track shoes, her coat, and some of her
dresses.

-Diana: Immediately after we got back up to the neighbors they started
throwing things around in the apartment under us. They threw a television onto
the asphalt, it exploded so violently it sounded like a thunderclap. Then,
when Vika wasn't there, I wouldn't eat, and they forced me, but I couldn't
eat. Because I loved Vika terribly and she and I had always gone to the movies
and gone for walks in the park. When we went into our apartment the next day
and everything was broken, right away I started looking for my dolls and my
books, but I didn't see anything. When we went back upstairs I managed to take
two cups from my tea service, and Gaya took Vika's suit and one of her own
dresses. My Italian boots were gone, my brown coat, it was beautiful, there
wasn't a one of my beautiful dolls, and my giant lion was gone too, the one
that had been on top of the television. He was very large and very handsome.
I had two satchels, one for first grade and the other for second grade, one
was yellow-green with a boy and a girl on it, they're playing a drum and a
violin, and there is a dog sitting there closing its ears, and on the other
one were the letters A, B, C, D, E and the numbers 4+5, two girls and a boy
with their mouths open like they are singing. They were beautiful satchels.
They were gone too. I had many books, I collected them, they were in the
bedside tables. And a boy had given me a little apron and a headband for my
birthday, they weren't around either. And I had some big books, fat ones, and
they disappeared, only one was left, The Malachite Box. The Adventures of
Karlson, Pippi Longstockings, and Fairy Tales of the World were left. All the
other books were gone.

-Zinaida: I continued searching for my briefcase, and then my supervisor
arrived. He had waited for me until nine o'clock, but I didn't appear, and he
thought something must have happened, so he came. He's a Russian, Aleksei
Semyonovich Lomakin. Alik Aliyev, the mechanic, came with him. When they saw
my wrecked apartment they were just petrified, they could not say a thing.
When I saw them I started crying. My Azerbaijani neighbors came in. Some of
them were crying, others were helping me pick up. I go on looking for my
documents and at the same time put things into the wardrobe. Now that I
remember it it's both funny and painful: How could I have thought that I had
returned to my apartment and that everything had gone back to normal?
Incidentally, later, when I went back to the apartment again those things were
gone too. And the door was gone. After my supervisor left, in the afternoon,
the neighbor said that we should leave, find another refuge. "I'm afraid," he
said, "that someone saw you come to my apartment, and that they could kill you
and us too. My God, where could I go it was daytime and those . . . I don't
even know what to call them, the bandits, those marauders, those jackals, I
don't know what to call them, I can't find the words, they were everywhere.
Where should I go with two girls? When I opened the door I had tears in my
eyes, and I was terrified . . . And he said, "Go to Alik's, he's an
Azerbaijani, too." and I say, "You should have said that earlier, when my
supervisor was here with the car, he could have taken us with him." Everyone
feared for their own lives. What could I do? I went out into the entryway and
stood. And he says, "any other time I would keep you here a year, or two. But
right now, I'm sorry . . . " Then another door opened, also on the third
floor. I ask the neighbor, "Tayara, can we hide at your place?" She's an
Azerbaijani too. She says, "What kind of question is that? Come in!" She hid
us. There were many people in the courtyard, and Gaya and I hid in the
wardrobe, and they put Diana under a mattress, leaving a small opening so the
child could breathe. Tayara said that when the bandits left she would let us
out, and when they came back she would hide us again.

We sat in the wardrobe for about a half hour. Gaya became ill, and I allowed
her to get out. My legs fell asleep and felt like cannons. We hadn't eaten or
drunk anything for so long, since the 27th, when we saw that horror--and all
of it just snapped in me. Tayara's husband went outside, even though I begged
him to stay, saying there should be a man in the house. He said that he'd be
in the courtyard, and if anything happened his wife would signal him. She put
her passport and all of their documents on the table so if they suddenly came
in she could show them that they were an Azerbaijani family. My girls went to
the window--and what was going on out there! I feared for my children, that
someone would recognize them from the street. Gaya let her hair down and put
on a scarf so she would resemble an Azerbaijani, but directly across there was
a 9-story building, their windows were right across from us, and I shouted
that someone would see her and give us away on the spot. But she kept on
looking.

-Diana: I watched too.

-Zinaida: Downstairs the bandits were fighting with the soldiers. The soldiers
didn't shoot, they didn't have orders to. I saw them throwing rocks at
the soldiers, they were young boys, 18- and 19-year olds, and they defended
themselves . . . I'm a mother after all, and they were no different from my
children. When one of the soldiers fell and his head started bleeding I had to
stop looking, l couldn't watch anymore . . . I imagined my children in their
shoes . . .

-Gayane: The troops had assumed their defense that morning and had cordoned
off the buildings, and some of the soldiers surrounded the bus station, Block
36, and our Microdistrict 3. But they only cordoned them off from the outside.
The mob fell upon the soldiers, who started to protect themselves, and the mob
surged into the courtyard with the soldiers after it. They caught several
Azerbaijanis and started beating them with their clubs. One fell down and they
cracked open another's head . . .

-Zinaida: They show Lebanon on television, and the war in Afghanistan--that's just
what it was like. Like in America, how they attack demonstrations with shields
and clubs--that's just how it was in our courtyard.

-Gayane: Don't compare it with America, those were peaceful demonstrations,
but these?!

-Zinaida: But how could it happen here and not off somewhere in America! They
attacked the soldiers, hurled stones at them . . . Then I thought, where's the
tear gas that the Americans use to disperse demonstrators? If they had used
gas on those jackals they all would have scattered.

-Gayane: They would not have scattered. The soldiers had been there since
morning, they didn't bring in fresh troops. They hadn't eaten, they were fine
standing there for about three hours, but then they got tired. They weren't
even allowed to sit down . . . At noon they, the soldiers, attacked them, and
then the tables were turned. The mob went after the soldiers, the guys were
bunched into a group in the center street and covered themselves with their
shields, and the Azerbaijanis surrounded them and threw paving stones at them.
And those guys sat there covering themselves with their shields. And meanwhile
tanks with machine guns were cruising the streets . . . They always say, "Our
children have never seen war." I never even dreamed about it, there was no
need to. But then I thought about those people who had lived through a war. It
was truly horrible . . . The guys were tired, exhausted, some had had their
clubs taken away, others, their shields, they had been beaten, they were
covered in blood . . . so many died! They beat the soldiers with their own
clubs and shields. And those guys stood there and couldn't defend themselves,
they couldn't open fire. They couldn't even defend themselves, let alone us.
It's comical . . .

-Zinaida: What are you saying? How can it be funny?

-Gayane: No, I didn't mean that: How could something like that happen during
our Soviet period? It's painfully embarrassing! And they burned the armored
personnel carriers, too. Someone shouted, "Get away, it's going to blow!"
Everyone scattered away, and the armored personnel carrier exploded. The
soldiers lost their senses. And when they drove the personnel carrier and the
bus at the mob out of rage and fury, they drove right up on the sidewalk.

-Zinaida: The bus that had brought the troops. Only the driver was in it. The
bus ran over three people straight off, I saw it. And two armored personnel
carriers ran over four more. All in one or two minutes. The bus ran over
three, one of the carriers ran over two, and the second, two more. Right on
our street there's a dry cleaners and appliance and watch repair places; one
of the armored personnel carriers went that way, and they say it ran over
several over there, too. But they ran over seven before our eyes. Then the bus
ploughed into a book kiosk.

-Gayane: No, that was a flower place. It was a new booth. He drove straight
into it.

-Zinaida: The driver jumped out and they dragged the vehicle out to the
middle of the road and set it on fire.

-Gayane: And I also saw the troops put a bunch of Azerbaijanis in a bus and
take them in a convoy to Baku. There were many arrests.

-Zinaida: Our neighbor, the one who hid us, couldn't take it, and he told his
wife that we should leave. They were running around in the courtyard looking
for the Armenians. They knew that they were hiding with Azerbaijanis, and they
were saying that they were going to check the Azerbaijani families. Poor
Tayara got scared too, and started to cry; I pleaded with her, I said that I
would remember forever how she saved my children and me, but where could we
go?

-Gayane: She didn't make us leave, she said that she would do anything, but
she was afraid.

-Zinaida: I told Tayara that we would just stay a little longer and that at
night we would return to our apartment. Then her husband came back and said
that a curfew had been imposed. He says, "Zina, you owe us a drink. Gorbachev
announced a curfew." And Bagirov [First Secretary of the Communist Party of
Azerbaijan SSR] was on television, he said that two people had been killed in
Karabagh, but nothing was wrong, automobile windows had been broken, but there
hadn't been any killings. He kept making statements, and there were
Azerbaijani songs and dances. Tayara turned the TV all the way up. When we
learned of the curfew we calmed down, but then a crowd ran into the courtyard
again, a large one. Our neighbor told them that there had been only one
Armenian family here, but they had already killed them all, there was no one
left. We hid in the wardrobe again. and they stuck Diana back under the bed.

-Gayane: Tayara went down to our apartment to see what was happened there, and
found two bandits. They asked her, "What are you doing here" Tayara answered,
"I came to take something for myself." "Take all you want, they're gone now."

-Zinaida: Yes, she had wanted to get something for us, at least some bedding.
She said, "What are you going to do, empty handed, naked, with three children,
nothing remains of your entire apartment." In short, we calmed down, and the
crowd raced off to the other building, the one across from us. I don't know
what went on there.

-Gayane: The curfew had its effect on the gangs, many started to disperse:
they were warned that they would open fire on them. The soldiers didn't know
the city, they couldn't get oriented, they drove up and down the main streets,
but didn't go into the courtyards. When we were at the City Party Committee
they asked people from Sumgait to go with them and show them the way.

-Zinaida: The tanks entered the city on the night of the 29th.

-Gayane: No, Mamma, the tanks had been there earlier, but were near the City
Party Committee, where the Armenians were . . . After midnight, on March 1,
when I had finally gotten to sleep after two sleepless nights, Mamma said,
"Get your things together, they have sent buses for us." As it was we had been
dressed the entire time. Mamma went to check it out . . .and came back for us.

-Zinaida: When I came back for the children Tayara said that Vika was alive
and well, some guys had come and told her that they had hidden her in a safe
place. I both believed it and didn't believe it. We ran out to the tanks. The
Gambarians were there, Roman and Sasha; their father, Shurik, the clarinetist,
was killed, and their mother was there. Sasha came over and asked about the
girls. I was surprised, how did he know my girls? He said that he knew me and
the girls. Our neighbor himself went for Gaya and Diana and it seemed like he
was taking forever so I went after him. Another neighbor came out, Anna
Vasilyevna, a Russian: "Zinochka, my dear, goodbye and good luck." She kissed
Diana. They put us in the bus and the captain gave the order for us to be
taken to the City Party Committee. The bus wouldn't start, so they put us on
another one. It was pouring rain.

-Diana: When they imposed the curfew there were many soldiers on the streets,
and they all had clubs and shields. And when the Azerbaijanis attacked them,
many of the soldiers died. They threw paving stones--huge rocks--at the
soldiers. I saw this myself. The soldiers ran over those Azerbaijanis with the
tanks. The soldiers saw that the Azerbaijanis were doing violence to people
and they ran over them out of rage. We got scared and they hid me under a
mattress and a blanket, and Gaya and Mamma crawled into the wardrobe. And they
were fighting right down there on the street . . . Near the building they were
blowing up buses and tanks, and cars were burning, and there were many dead in
the courtyard. They drove without looking to see if it was a sidewalk or a
street, they just drove, and the ones who didn't manage to get out of the way
were run over by the tanks. And when we left--it was evening, it was already
dark--there were three buses, and one of them had soldiers in it. Mamma ran up
and said, "Get your clothes on, let's go." Gaya was wearing slippers, and I
had on my blue dress, but it was an old one. I was wearing my old jacket, my
old dress, and slippers. And nothing else. Gaya had on a skirt, her Angora
sweater, and slippers. It was raining hard, and there were puddles on the
street. They gave Mamma an old coat because she was wearing a short-sleeved
dress; she put it on and we ran out. We got onto the bus and I was hungry, one
of the soldiers from Yerevan gave me rations and carried me from one bus to
the other in his arms. I gave him the little glass that remained from Vika's
trousseau, and he gave me his telephone number.

-Gayane: In the bus there was a soldier with a shield sitting at every window.
We had to be ready for anything. They took us to the City Party Committee, let
us out, and then took us into the City Party Committee building under armed
guard. It was jammed with people and you couldn't breathe. We asked, "Are
these all us? Armenians?" They answered yes. We were surprised that there were
so many Armenians in Sumgait. All those years we lived there and didn't know
there were so many Armenians, 18,000. We were struck by that, we had never
noticed. Going downstairs the next day I ran into the Secretary of the
Komsomol from Vika's plant, the Khimprom. He said that Vika was alive and
well. When I told Mamma she of course calmed down some more. But you know,
after all that it was hard to believe anything, our faith in everything was
just gone. She didn't believe it completely.

-Zinaida: I didn't believe it because I had heard all kinds of things. When
we arrived at the City Party Committee we heard everything imaginable! It
was the fear of God. I saw many of our acquaintances, they were kissing each
other and asking how their children and homes were. Many people already knew
that there had been a pogrom of our apartment. They had seen the broken
windows. I cried, saying that I didn't know where Vika was. One woman said
that they had taken two of her daughters and that she couldn't find one of
them; the other had been slashed all over. A second said that her husband and
her son had been murdered. That was Nelli Aramian. She lived in Building 6 in
our microdistrict. They killed her husband, Armo, and her son Artur. I heard
so many things like that that I was already starting to lose touch; my
patience had run dry waiting for my daughter. Later an Azerbaijani fellow came
to me and said, Aunt Zina, Vika sent me, she's alive and well and hidden in a
safe place; if you want I'll call her there and you can speak with her. We
went downstairs to the first floor and he called Vika. I spoke with her, heard
the voice of my child. She had managed to survive in that hell. Then I started
begging that Azerbaijani to bring her to the City Party Committee. He tried to
talk me out of it: "I'll bring her wherever you go, don't worry, I've looked
after her better than a brother does a sister." All the same I asked him to
get her. He brought her and I calmed down. On the second day there was a
meeting with Demichev [Member of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the
Communist Party of the USSR,] and people started shouting. One shouted, "Give
me my son back!", another yelled, "Where is my daughter?!", a third wanted her
husband . . . Bagirov  was there too, and he stood there blinking, not saying
anything.

-Gayane: When Demichev asked where we wanted to go, everyone shouted, "To
Russia!" To be honest we were all frightened of Armenia, there were such wild
rumors it was as though we were in a terrible dream, and no one wanted to go
to Armenia. But he said that he couldn't evacuate 18,000 people to Russia and
that he would meet with everyone individually the next day and speak with
them. And he also said that today he was going to go look at all of our
apartments. On March 3 we went to the military barracks in the village of
Nasosny. We were taken care of marvelously by the military. They sent special
flights of children right from there to Minvody, Yerevan, and Moscow. One
woman left for Moscow with a letter for Gorbachev and Gromyko.

-Zinaida: The worst was truly behind us by then. Everything had passed, but
the pain will remain for our whole lives. It cannot be forgotten. Under no
circumstances should we, our children, or our grandchildren forget. Who will
answer for those who died? For our mothers, sisters, brother, sons and
daughters? Who will bear the responsibility? Who will wash away their blood?
Someone should be made to answer, and severely, so it has an effect on the
people that did with us as they pleased . . . It isn't over yet, now we live
here, in Armenia, protected, but the issue isn't resolved. We would like
to stay in Armenia, in our homeland, so that all the Armenian people will be
united. Then we will be invincible. Armenians won't be scattered throughout
the Soviet Union, about the world, and if we're all together this won't happen
again. As a mother of three children, as a woman, as a sister, I ask Armenians
to be united so that what happened in Sumgait will never happen again. Our
homeland . . . The only request we have is that we be helped in obtaining an
apartment and getting jobs. So that our children can work for the good of
Armenia. If we aren't able to, then let our children do it. And if it's
possible, we'll work for the good of Armenia too. This is the land of our
forefathers. Our grandfathers and great-grandfathers lived here too, it was
only later that people dispersed all over. Like a mother, the land here bore
and reared us. It is our wife, and will protect us, too. I want but one thing:
that our people never see the hardship that our children saw, that your
children here, in Armenia, never see anything like it.

  May 28, 1988
  Yerevan
		     - - - reference - - -

[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,
    Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by
    Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 187-203


Yup, I think you're right.  My mistake.  Now, how do I make
an "R" backwards using a computer keyboard?

I'll bet the gods know how (this is alt.atheism, after
all).  Tell you what, if all my "R"s start coming out
backwards when I type from now on, I'll become a believer.

(And that's not asking for miracles.  If I asked for a miracle,
I'd ask for a real miracle, like for Pat Buchanan to become
an out-of-the-closet drag queen - well...maybe that wouldn't be
so miraculous, but I think he'd look fabulous in a feather
boa and a sequined hat like Mia Farrow wore in Gatsby.)


What we call today the "Old Testament" was being written up to approx-
imately 168 BCE, according to most modern scholars.  Aside from the book of
Daniel, the whole OT predates Alexander (the Great).  These books were written
(predominantly) in Hebrew.
	There were also other books being written at about this time and later
by Greek-speaking, or "Hellenistic", Jews.  These books are those which are
reckoned by many denominations as "Apocrypha".
	Before the closing of the Writings, the third part of what is today
called the canon, all of the books were in use by Jews of the day.  However,
there were those who reckoned (based on Zech. 13) that prophecy had ceased.
This faction maintained that there were no true prophets in their day.  They
also maintained that literature of a prophetic character could not be genuine
teachings from God.
	By the time of c.65 CE, another faction had entered the mess.  Christians
had come in claiming that THEIR writings were also suitable to be read in
synagogues and used for worship.  Therefore, the Palestinian Jewish leaders
got together and stated that the books written from the time of Ben Sira (Sirach)
onward were not sacred writings.  They justified this from Zech. 13.  In
particular, they said, the writings of the Christians (called heretics) were
not inspired.
	At about 90 CE, they codified things further by closing the canon in
somewhat of an official sense at the Council of Jamnia.  A few books (Ecclesi-
astes, Song of Songs, Esther) made it in after that date, but these were those
which had been written prior to the official cut off point (the time of Ben
Sira) for inclusion that they had established in order to keep out the Christian
and Hellenistic writings.
	Jerome excluded the 'apocrypha' because they were not in use by Jews
of his day and because they were (except for Sirach) not found in Hebrew in his
time.  His criterion for separating them from the other pre-Christian writings
was not based on 'inspiration'.


Message-ID: <1993Apr26.202714.4519@Virginia.EDU>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 20:27:14 GMT

First, the following two quite normal phrases:

       ^^^^^^^^^^^
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^

and then he shows us what HE means by "intelligent and unoffending manner"
and "INTELLIGENT conversation":

                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^
   [...deleted lines...]

                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   [...deleted lines...]

   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   [...deleted lines...]

   Later he reveals the truth:

                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   [...deleted lines...]

   Shurely he IS an anti-Semite (call it anti-Jew), maybe BECAUSE he
   is "part Jewish"  (e.g. his mother might have *dated*  a Jew who
   didn't marry her, and so she got a little bastard whom she taught
   hatred).

   He is also a coward since he doesn't dare to sign with his name.
   At the end he signs with a highly intelligent and intellectual
   phrase:

Message-ID: <1993Apr26.203425.4824@Virginia.EDU>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 20:34:25 GMT

   The  Nazis  might also have sent this bastard to the gas chambers
   because of his "part Jewish"ness (only that he is not aware of it).

PS: I wonder what kind of educational institution is @virginia.edu.
    Could it be the "Free KKK-University of Virginia" ? ;-)

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09


I have found a situation which I think is a bug in X or Motif, but I'm hoping
is really just a mistake on my part.  Does anyone know anything about
this problem........

- I am using an XmTextField, and setting its XmNvalue to a hardcoded
  text string (ascii or Kanji) either via XtSetValues or XmTextSetString.
  The problem is that when the XmTextField is displayed, the text is getting
  truncated, depending on the setting of the environment variables
  LANG (more specifically LC_ALL).  When they are set to japanese,
  the text gets truncated.  When they are set to english, everything
  works fine.  I am taking the default for XmNcolumns.
  (Please note that hardcoding of text is NOT done in my actual
   application, just in my sample code to make things easier)

- I am running Motif 1.2, X11R5 via HPUX9.01.  My test program is set up
  to handle 16 bit Kanji characters.  I have remembered to do
  XtSetLanguageProc() prior to my MrmInitialize and my font resources
  are set to japanese fonts.

- Don't know if this matters, but my dialog box and TextField is initially
  created with UIL.

The problem does NOT happen with XmText.  Unfortunately substituting
XmTextFields with XmTexts in my application is not an acceptable
alternative (way too much code to be modified while in beta!)

I have a small test program which illustrates the problem if anyone
wants it.  My best guess is that either the X code or Motif is not
properly allocating memory for japanese, but since I don't have the
source to look at it is just a guess.

Please let me know if this sounds familiar, or if you have a suggestion,
or if you want the sample program.

THANKS!!!!!!!!

- Susan


I definitely do.  That's why I don't like going to see games played
on artificial turf :-)

Well, your idea of "interesting" differs from mine.  I think
batting practice is interesting, for example, and make a special
effort to get to the game very early in order to see it.  I think the
delaying tactics of batters, pitchers, catchers, and managers are
interesting because they're attempts to gain advantage through control
of the flow and timing of the game.  Of course, the umpires can, and
should, intervene when these tactics get out of hand.  As Ryan Robbins
has pointed out, there are rules that cover this.

One of the more fascinating things about baseball, I think, is its
open-endedness with regard to time.  You never know if the game is going
to zip right by and be over in less than two hours, or if it's going to
go on until four in the morning.  Likewise, some games are action-packed,
and some games are slow and lazy.  That's fine by me.  Those folks who
want constant action should watch the games on TV so they can channel-
surf and cater to their short attention spans.


    I don't remember the formula's off hand as it has been awhile since
I took aerodynamics and haven't used the stuff since.
The Cd is related to the drag force which is what effects top speed and
fuel consumption. When the drag force on the car or aircraft is greater
than what the vehicle's engine can overcome it has reached its top speed.
(autos of course also have to overcome rolling resistance)
Since drag opposes the vehicle's motion, the engine must make up for that
by burning more fuel. Anyway, since the geometery of an auto is rather
complex, the Drag,pressure coeffiecent,etc is either found experimentaly, or
using a numerical method.

anyway for flow around a cylinder the drag coeff is:

            Cd = d/(q*2R)

       where d is the drag force, q the flow velocity and R is the radius
of the clyinder.
   To get a rough (very rough) estimate, you can set R at 1/2 the car's
width, q at the car's speed and knowing the Cd, find the drag force that
the car would need to overcome.


My wife has requested that I poll the Sages of Usenet to see what is
known about the use of chromium in weight-control diet suppliments.
She has seen multiple products advertising it and would like any kind
real information.

My first impulse was "Yuck! a metal!" but I have zero data on it.

What do you know?


No joke.  Here's another copy for you to save.  NPR, hmmm?  Did they
mention the part about "The fact of law enforcement access to the
escrowed keys will not be concealed from the American public." ...?
------------------------------------------------------------------------


A program called Mac-ette allows you to read Mac 3.5"
high-density disks on a DOS machine. You can get the program from
simtel-20. I'm not sure of the directory location.


A-hem. Two words: Russell Davis. Playing in the cavern at Albany (AA) last
year (375/410/385 down the alleys and to center), Davis went .285/.355/.483
with 22 homers. There aren't any small parks on the road in the Eastern
League, either. He's 23(!) and his MLE was .258/.308/.416, 17 HR. I have no
fielding statistics, but from seeing him a number of times last year I'd say
that he's not Brooks Robinson, but neither is he Howard Johnson. Unless they
think they can win the pennant *this year* (which seems possible) and need
Boggs to do it, I think they're making the same sort of mistake with Davis
that Boston made with Boggs, leaving him in the minors for two or three
years after he'd shown that he was a good hitter.

Hrm? They still have him on the roster (16 AB through the first two weeks).
They've just never figured out what to do with him. I suspect that he hits
enough (especially vs. lefties) to be a reasonable shortstop. One rumor
running around during spring training was that they wanted to convert
Silvestri to be a catcher(!) because "his body type was wrong for a
shortstop".  You'd think that somebody in the same *division*, who plays
Baltimore about a dozen times a year, would know better.

 Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com


[some deletions]

Well, we agree on the last part.:-)  One of the basic things you need to
have in a statistic to be able to predict a player's performance on it
in the future is for there to be a correlation from year to year.  A
player's batting average is correlated fairly well from year to year.
A player's ability to walk or infielder's Defensive Average are correlated
better.  That is to say, given their past performance in those statistics
we can have a pretty good handle on how they'll do next year.  Put in
some simple information about aging and you can do even better.  One of
the basic problems with something like "clutch" batting average - overall
batting average is that the correlation from year to year is almost zero.
Adding to the sample size doesn't seem to help much.  As a counterexample to
what you showed, consider the following two players from 1984-1987:

               Non-Clutch                      Clutch
               AB      H       BA              AB      H       BA

Maldonado      1060    260     .245            254     78      .307
Lemon          1643    457     .278            256     57      .223

If you had had these two players in 1988, by your logic, in those "clutch"
situations, you'd bat Maldonado for Lemon in a blink of an eye.  Well, in
1988, Maldonado hit .267 in "non-clutch" and .190 in "clutch", while Lemon
hit .254 in "non-clutch" and .313 in "clutch".  Before you accuse me of
completely cooking the data, there were 96 players who had 25+ "clutch"
at bats every year from 1984-1988 (according to Elias).  As a simple
measure of clutchness, let's just look at clutch BA-non-clutch BA. If you use
'84-'87 to predict '88 for those 96 players, you'd find that 27 of the
96 were below league average in that measure both in '84-87 and in '88,
26 were above league average in both periods and the other 43 were
above in one and below in the other.  If you were just flipping coins,
you'd expect to get 24 above/below in both and 48 that switched.  The
difference between the observed results and the coin flip experiment
is not statisically significant.

BTW, correlating players' _overall_ batting average from '84-'87 with
'88 gives a correlation coefficient of 0.59, which is significant at
something better than the 99.9% confidence level.  Correlating their
(clutch-non-clutch BA) for the same period gives a correlation of
0.088, significant at no level of any interest.

Actually, it's technically incorrect to say that we can't predict future
clutch performance.  It's more correct to say that we can't predict
future clutch performance with any skill.

Harold


I would appreciate any thoughts on what makes a planet habitable for Humans.
I am making asumptions that life and a similar atmosphere evolve given a range
of physical aspects of the planet.  The question is what physical aspects
simply disallow earth like conditions.

eg Temperature range of 280K to 315K (where temp is purely dependant on dist
     from the sun and the suns temperature..)
   Atmospheric presure ? - I know nothing of human tolerance
   Planetary Mass ? - again gravity at surface is important, how much
     can human bodies take day after day.  Also how does the mass effect
     atmosphere.  I thinking of planets between .3 and 3 times mass of the
     earth.  I suppose density should be important as well.

Climate etc does not concern me, nor does axial tilt etc etc.  Just the above
three factors and how they relate to one another.

Jonathan
--


[much munching and editing to get to the point]

[Brett D. Sherron-Ferrell writes]

[Mike Timbol responds]

While I do not think he is lying, I also feel hesitant to take anybody "on their
word" unless they can attribute a source for thier claims. With all the FUD
and misinformations and misconceptions and outright lies flying around the
advocacy newsgroups, I do not trust any unsubstantiated rumor or claim
- especially from any employees of IBM's OR MicroSoft, or anyone who seems to
have a vested interest.

Divya

--
Divya


Hi there,

I'm looking for tools that can make X programming easy.
I would like to have a tool that will enable to create X motif
GUI Interactivly. Currently I'm Working on a SGI with forms.
A package that enables to create GUI with no coding at all
(but the callbacks).
Any help will be appreciated.


OK, if I post where this comes from, will people stop sending email
asking where I negotiated the deal? ;-)

The deal is from "International Computer and Networking" in CA.
(I saw the ad int he back of MacWorld and MacUser)...
phone number is 310-441-9181 and the deal may have changed since
a few weeks ago, since they change prices about every ten minutes ;-)

Alas, this is a funny system, it SOUNDS like a good deal, but this is a
Centris 650, 4MB (on the motherboard) 4MB SIMM, 80MB HD, NO ETHERNET
and NO COPROCESSOR (well, actually it's a 68LC040 instead of a 68RC040,
'just had to say that to keep people from saying "there is no such thing
as an '040 without a coprocessor, since the FPU is built into the chip")

OK, there ya have it, but if I were you, I would wait untill the cyclones
come out and buy a Quadra 800 ;-)

-nate


--

In 1972, they lowered the engine compression so that it would run on
regular gas (not to mention the addition of emission controls).  The '72
also added pop-out rear quarter windows...

Alot of parts are available for the GT from C & R Small Cars in CT and
used from Bill Daley's Opel Parts in MA....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew R. Singer                                    MIT Lincoln Laboratory
(617) 981-3771                                       244 Wood Street
singer@ll.mit.edu                                    Lexington, MA 02173


I am finding the volume of stuff on rec.sport.baseball
overwhelming -- ca. 200 posts/day.  An effect of this is
that a backlog builds up, and many posts get dumped from
my system.  I could probably fix that--but don't have the
time to read them all in any event.  My guess is that mine
is a common problem.  I have some ideas that would help:

1.  Each person generally post no more than one article/day.
2.  Limit the extent to which previous posts are reproduced
    in posts.
3.  Don't post mindless `woofs,' or `anti-woofs,' e.g. "The
    Jays are best!"  or  "The Jays suck."
4.  Don't respond to mindless posts, e.g.  "Jack Morris is
    a better pitcher than Frank Viola because he's won a
    World Series."  I know that you can use the `n' key to
    get by these posts, but they bump interesting posts from
    my disk.
5.  use the goddamn shift key etc it makes your posts easier
    to read


From: "Phil G. Fraering" <pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu>
  >> Finally: this isn't the Bronze Age, [..]
  >> please try to remember that there are more human activities than
  >> those practiced by the Warrior Caste, the Farming Caste, and the
  >> Priesthood.

F Baube responds;
   Right, the Profiting Caste is blessed by God, and may
    freely blare its presence in the evening twilight ..

  Steinn Sez;
  >The Priesthood has never quite forgiven
  >the merchants (aka Profiting Caste [sic])
  >for their rise to power, has it?

If we are looking for evidence of belessed-by-God-ness, I'd say the ability
to blare lights all over the evening sky is about the best evidence you
could ever hope to get.  No wonder the preistly classes are upset :-)

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk   \\ As the radius of vision increases,
18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ the circumference of mystery grows.


Please....Apples to Apples.  Nt is a beta, and as such cannot be accepted as a
competitor to Win3.1-it's not on the market.  Same for OS/2 2.1, for a couple or
weeks......
BTW, cute sig.


I am not exactly known as a Flower Child Pacifist, but lets call
cowpoop cowpoop.

"The peaceful attempt to serve the warrant" consisted of the following
actions, in order:

1) BATF agents forcing their entry of the "compound" through second
story windows.

2) BATF agents loosing some grenades (allegedly "stun" or "flash"
grenades) which promptly detonated.

*After* which, according to the tapes I have seen, the B-D
started shooting back.

Now exactly how is it that someone breaking into private property
and tossing grenades around is considered "peaceful" by
*anyone*? You *think* on that.

(Which is not to say I do not still hold my previous and
entirely correct notions about what should be worn and
what arms should be used in assaulting a building.)


I'm having trouble with installing a second IDE drive on a Promise IDE caching
controller. The first drive is a conner 3204 and works fine. The second drive
is a conner 30174, it is currently unjumpered  to be the slave drive. The
problem is the slave drive is recognized but is reported back as having no
free space. Disabling cache has made no effect. What else should I check for?


Hi. Can anyone please give me some ftp sites to get IPAS processes for
3D Studio 2.0?
Thanks.
+Warren =8^)


Please help.

I have an IBM-compatible notebook computer with an LCD VGA screen.  While I
was working with it this morning, the screen started to flicker a little,
which I thought was odd since I do use a surge-protector for my computer and
all peripherals.  It only did this for a second and then stopped.

I left the room for several minutes and, when I returned, the screen was
completely dim, not blank, but very very dim.  The contrast slider still
worked so that I could adjust it to where I could *faintly* make out what
was on the screen but the brightness slider had absolutely *no* effect.

I was plugged-in at the time (i.e., not using the battery) but I still
tried switching the battery, changing the power-saver features, etc., etc.,
all to no avail.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?  If this just means that I
need to replace the screen then I guess I'll have to but I thought that the
"death" of my LCD screen would be a little less dramatic when it eventually
happened.  I didn't want to take it in to be repaired before I asked on the
net about this because I already know what they'll say: "Yep, you gotta have
this replaced and it's gonna cost you $???."

I've only had the computer for about 21 months.  Is that a reasonable life
cycle for a LCD display?  Oh, I guess I ought to give specifics here: the
brand is Compudyne (Is this a reputable company?), it's a 386SX @ 20 MHz.
I forget the model number exactly and I was too ticked off to write it down
before coming in to work today.

If anyone can help me, PLEASE give me any advice you might have.  I'm not
opposed to having it replaced, but I'd rather not if it's not absolutely
necessary.  If you wouldn't mind, please e-mail me at mike@mik.uky.edu
but if you'd rather post I'll be checking back here in a couple of days.

BTW, if the answer to this question is already in a FAQ somewhere, feel
free to flame away but I would ask that you also include the location and
name of the FAQ if you don't mind.

Thanks in advance for any help...


hausner@qucis.queensu.ca (Alejo Hausner) Pontificated:
To split a split hair, I believe that teflon (-CF4- monomer) was
"discovered" by accident when someone I don't remember
found what he thought was a liquid (or gas?) had turned to a
solid...

It just happend to fit the bill for the above use...

I'm crossposting to sci.materials so perhaps someone in the know
might elaborate...


Hello,
        I install one wav driver: pc-speaker, then install mpeg 2.0
            phoenix.oulu.fi:/pub/incoming/mpeg2_0/mpegexe.zip --/

in Windows 3.1. but when I load one MPEG file and make sound type to
WAV or MPEG,it always say error.
        when I load one mpeg file which have wav file( ~.wav),then
select sound type to WAV,it is normal and no error,but I still can't
hear sound. What should I do? fix the SoundDrv number in MFW.INI?

        Thankx for any help...

--
 Internet Address: u7911093@cc.nctu.edu.tw

    English Name: Erik Wang
    Chinese Name: Wang Jyh-Shyang


Please, read my post carefully, I am saying that lift the arms emargo
and let the MUSLIMS defend themselves. The point is these Europians
"civilized countries" neither want to get intervene militarily themselves
and nor they like to see the muslims of the world to help the oppressed.
(Remember what happened almost one year ago when the so called UN discovered
some riffles in an Iranian jet in Bosnia!). The west is not indifferent
in this matter they are siding with Serbs by keeping this embargo on only
muslim side (okay on-paper on both sides).

-Khalid


Hallo all...my girlfriend and I will be travelling across the US this summer,
so we won't be using our tickets to return to Hawaii.  Please buy them.

The tickets are one-way, leaving Peoria, IL on May 17.  It connects to the main
route in Minneapolis/St. Paul, and from there goes on to Honolulu...you'll be
in Honolulu at 2:42 pm, and flying via Northwest airlines.

Any offers will be considered, but please make sure these are serious offers.
Tickets to Hawaii aren't cheap, but we're aiming to make two people very happy
this summer.


Hi I'm new to imaging, and my advisor and I would like to
do some 3D reconstructions.

We take slides (biological), and image them on a 486.  Then
the software allows us to trace the outline of the objects
we want to save.  The outlines are stored as a TIFF file.

We would like to convert a group of these outlines into a
3D image.  We are unsure as to where to begin.  Someone mentioned
that if we could convert the TIFF into a vector format then
we could view them in Autocad.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Geico has purchased radar guns in several states, I know they have done
it here in CT.

I have also heard horror stories about people that have been insured by Geico
for years and then had 1 accident and were immediately dropped.  And once
you've been dropped by any insruance company you become labled a high
risk, and end up forking out 3 or 4 times what you should be for insurance.

My suggestion, stay where you are, or shop around but STAY AWAY from Geico!


For those with out FTP access, try NitV-BBS (see .sig).  I have the following:
(all from nic.funet.fi, garbo.uwasa.fi, sony.com, and ftp.uni-erlangen.de)

PLATFORM    EXECS   SOURCE   PATCH4SRC   XTRAS  BBS FILE AREA    FIDO FREQNAME

DOS           x       x                    x      LOGIN         PGPDOS, PGPSDOS
MAC           x       x                           NONIBM        PGPMAC, PGPSMAC
AMIGA         x       ?                           NONIBM        PGPAMI
ARCHIMEDES    x       ?                           NONIBM        PGPARC
OS/2          x       ?                           WIN           PGPOS2
NeXT                            x                 NONIBM        PGPNXT
UNIX          x       x                           NONIBM        PGPUNX

? = haven't looked in the archive to see if it has source or not (usually
because I can't handle the format).  For FidoNet FREQ magic-names, the
PGPS??? names are source code, others are either execs or execs + src
[+ extras], or in the case of NeXT, just a patch (you still need one of
the full source code packages).

NitV-BBS is FREE.  This is not an ad, it is a public service announcement.


Hi All,
       This is the first time I've posted to the net, so I hope this is
going to the right people.
  I'm looking for software packages that run on an IBM PC clone that
allows me to display Openlook and motif windows on the PC.
  The idea is to use the PC as a cheap X windows terminal for use by
process Engineers at work.

  If anyone can E-Mail me any recommended packages/horror stories/etc
I would be greatful.

		Thanks in advance

			Mark Wilkinson


In the course of discussing the Sabbath with some folks,
I came across something that was completely new to me,
and I thought I'd offer it for comment.

To keep this as brief as possible, let me state my
observation as a declarative statement, and then whoever
wants to can comment on it.  Basically, what I think
I've observed is that the phrase "the Ten Commandments",
as used by Moses, is not a reference to Ex. 20:1-17, but
rather a reference to ten distinct discourses from Ex.
20:1 through Ex. 31:18.  That is, the phrase "the Ten
Commandments" should more accurately be translated "the
Ten Discourses", of which the passage we call the "Ten
Commandments" is really only the first.

I'm not completely convinced that the above is true, but
for purposes of discussion, let me argue it as though I
was sure.

Arguments supporting the above idea:

1)  There aren't really ten commandments in Ex. 20:1-17.
In order to get 10 commandments, you have to get two of
them out of verses 3-6, and the verses themselves do not
support such a division because they are all about not
worshipping other gods.  That is, verse 3 commands to
have no other gods, and verse 5 commands to not worship
the idols mentioned in verse 4.  You can't violate
verses 5-6 without violating verse 3, indicating that
the whole passage is one command, and leaving us with
only Nine "Commandments".  I could go on at length about
this, but for now I'll just stop with this summary.

2)  There ARE ten speeches between Ex 20:1 (the beginning
of the traditional "Ten Commandments") and Ex 31:18
(where God actually gives Moses the two tablets with the
Ten Commandments/Discourses written on them).  I break
these ten down as follows: 20:1-17; 20:22-26; 21:1-23:33;
25:1-30:10; 30:11-16; 30:17-21; 30:22-33; 30:34-38;
31:1-11; and 31:12-18.  In most cases, each of these
passages begins with some variation of the phrase, "And
the LORD spoke to Moses, saying..."  The exception is
Ex. 21:1, which begins "Now these are the ordinances
which you are to set before them..."

3)  The word translated "commandments" in the phrase
"the Ten Commandments" isn't really the word for
"commandment", its the word for a speech, or an
utterance.  It's a word often used for longer discourses
rather than individual statements; for instance, when
combined with the word 'yom' (day), this word is
translated "Chronicles" in such phrases as "now the rest
of the acts of so-and-so, are they not written in the
Chronicles of x?..."  The word for "commandment" is
freely used throughout the books of Moses, and perhaps
it is significant that when Moses spoke of the Ten X's,
he appears to have avoided the word for commandment and
chosen instead a word associated with discourses longer
than just a single command.

4)  God tells Moses that He is going to give him the
stone tablets "with the law and the commandments" (Ex
24:12), yet He does not give Moses the tablets until He
has finished all ten discourses on Mount Sinai.  If the
Ten Commandments were only Ex. 20:1-17, it is not
immediately clear why God would wait several days and
nine more discourses before giving these tablets to
Moses.  On the other hand, if we have the Ten Discourses
written on the tablets, then it makes perfect sense that
God would not give Moses the tablets until He had
finished delivering all Ten Discourses.

5)  When Moses did get the tablets, he found that both
tablets were written on both sides (Ex. 32:15).  If
these Ten "Commandments" were only the first 17 verses
of Ex. 20, God would have had to have written in LARGE
letters!  Not that He couldn't have, of course, but it
does seem more likely to me that this is a reference to
two tablets containing ten discourses written in normal-
sized letters.

6)  In II Cor. 3, Paul seems to specifically single out
the "commandments written on stone" as being the
"ministry of death", "that which is fading away," and
"the ministry of condemnation."  With the possible
exception of the commandment about the Sabbath, it is
difficult to see why Paul would refer to the commands in
Ex. 20:1-17 as being temporary, "fading away"-type
commandments.  This is less of a problem if the stone
tablets should happen to have included all of the
commandments from Ex 20 through Ex 31.

Arguments against this idea:

The main argument against this idea, aside from the fact
that it contradicts a long-standing tradition, is that
in Dt 5:22, Moses says, after quoting the commands in
Ex. 20:1-17, "These words the LORD spoke...and He added
no more.  And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and
gave them to me."  This appears to identify the words
just quoted as being the only contents of the two stone
tablets.

That was my first impression, anyway.  However, after
some thought, I noted that a great deal hinges on how
you understand the phrase "These words."  If Moses meant
"These words *which I have just related to you* were
spoken by God" etc., then that would mean that only the
traditional "Ten Commandments" were on the stone
tablets.  If, however, Moses was making a parenthetical
comment--"These words *which I AM NOW telling you* were
spoken by God" etc.--then that's quite different.

I did note that in the Dt 5 account, Moses tells of
being given the stone tablets BEFORE telling of the
people asking Moses to represent them before God,
whereas in the Exodus account, the people asked this of
Moses between the first and second discourses, several
days BEFORE God gave Moses the stone tablets.  This
reinforces the idea that Moses' remarks in Dt 5:22ff
were intended as a parenthetical remark, rather than a
strictly chronological account of when God wrote what,
and at what point He stopped adding to what was on the
tablets.

Summary:  all things considered, I find it somewhat more
likely that the nine commands in Ex 20 are really only
the first of what Moses regarded as the Ten Discourses
of God.  I don't know if anybody has ever espoused this
idea before; it's brand-new to me.  So, while I lean
towards accepting it, I would be very interested in
hearing any comments and criticisms anyone may care to
offer.


Not boring is right!!! It is more likely to cause me to have a stroke!!
I had to listen to game two on the Blackhawk station and I don't think I
could take another call of "And JOSEPH makes a SPEcTACular saaaaaave".
Now I'm a Blues fan, but I don't want them to play "like" they played
in game two. Sure the result was fine, but the Blues match up very well
with the Hawks so they really don't need to treat them like the 86 Flames.
We don't need a "Monday Night Miracle" to have a chance to beat Chicago.
The Blues can do it on talent. At least over the hawks.

Rich h.--- Go BLUES!!


(This is a cross post to rec.gardens and sci.med. Set the follow-up
(line in the header, depending on what kind of advice you give, or
(e-mail directly to me: ceci@lysator.liu.se.)

I have a problem with wasps -- they seem to love me. Last summer I
couldn't spend more than ten to fifteen minutes at a time in my garden
before one or several wasps would come for me. I am asking for advice
on how to repel wasps.

   This year the wasps have built their nest under a stone next to one
of my tiny ponds. The caretaker (poor fellow!) will have to take care
of them, and that will give me a head start on them. Last year we
couldn't find any nest. Even after the caretaker has gassed the nest
in my tiny garden of 30 square meter, other wasps will most likely vie
for the territory. Is there anything I can grow, rub on my skin or
spread on the soil that will repel the black and yellow bastards?
Never mind if it turns my skin purple or kills off all my beloved
plants, I want to be able to spend time in my garden like everyone
else.

   Would it help to remove the ponds and the bird bath? The wasps seem
to come to drink at them, and I suppose that their prey will breed in
them. The black tits seem to be afraid of the wasps, because as soon
as the wasp season starts, they stop coming to have their bath.

Even when I am not trying to win back my patio from 15-20 wasps, they
seem to love me. The advice I usually get when I ask what to do about
wasps, is to stand still and not wave my arms. I've got some painful
stings when trying to follow that advice. I have also tried to use
hygienic products without perfumes, to no avail. They still love me,
and come for me, even when I'm in the middle of a crowd. So far only
two things seem to work: To kill it dead or to run into the house and
close all doors and windows.

NB: I don't have a problem with bees or bumble-bees, just wasps.
    Patronizing advice redirected to /dev/null.

--Ceci


I have 2 OMTI 3527 SCSI adapters for sale.  These make an ST-506 RLL drive
look like a SCSI disk drive.  Each adapter will support two RLL drives.  I
have used this model OMTI adapter with my Amiga A500 and a C-Ltd SCSI host
adapter without problems. I'm selling these because I got them about the
same time I decided to sell instead of expand my Amiga so I have never even
used them.  I can't guarantee they will work with every SCSI host adapter.

They are essentially new in box. I paid $150/ea, make me an offer.


I don't know who either is, but I think I see your problem.

You've got Cecil King and Don Douglass.  What you need is Don King
and Cecil Adams.

Or maybe Rodney King and Beanie & Cecil?


FOR SALE

Sony 8mm camcorder model PRO V9 - top-of-the-line a few years ago.
	- autofocus with macro capability
	- 6x zoom
	- 5 lux rating
	- 360,000-pixel CCD chip, the best made for a 8mm camcorder
	- AV input/output jacks (all cables included)
	- RF convertor/switcher for TV without AV input
	- AC adaptor/charger
	- 1.5A battery
	- neck trap
	- user's manual
	- mint condition

List price for this model was $1600, I paid $1330 mail-order a few years
ago.  Will sacrifice for $500 or best offer.  Reason for sale: upgrade
to Hi8 model.


Oh my god, I made a typo AND used the word "god". Come burn my house
down, I must deserve it.


But they also might have run out of fire-wood (maybe chopping up furnature?).

They also may not have been cooking, but eating MREs and other
delicacies stored for just such an occation...

Just a thought.

Brent "Yes I am well aware that their electricity was cut, thanks to the
HUNDREDS of E-mail messages and replies to my post" Irvine


Xircom Pocket Ethernet Adapter
Connects any PC with a parallel port to the network

Make offer


Can anyone help with this?

System: SPARC Classic, Solaris 2.1, gcc 2.3.3, X11R5

When I try to build the XView libraries (xview3, patched with the patch from
the X11R5-Solaris kit), I get the following error:

rm -f ndet_loop.o shared/ndet_loop.o
gcc -fpcc-struct-return -E   -O2  -I../../.././build/include  -I/usr/X11R5/include  -DSVR4 -DSYSV  -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DOS_HAS_LOCALE -DOS_HAS_MMAP   ndet_loop.c \
gcc -fpcc-struct-return -fPIC   -O2  -I../../.././build/include  -I/usr/X11R5/include  -DSVR4 -DSYSV  -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DOS_HAS_LOCALE -DOS_HAS_MMAP   -c x.c \
-o shared/ndet_loop.o
In file included from ../../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:29, from ../../.././build/include/xview_private/ntfy.h:24, from x.c:18:
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:25: parse error before `sigset_t'
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:25: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:26: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:29: parse error before `}'
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:29: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
In file included from ../../.././build/include/xview_private/ntfy.h:24, from x.c:18:
./../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:286: parse error before `*'
./../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:286: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
In file included from x.c:35:
/usr/include/sys/user.h:226: `MAXSIG' undeclared, outside of functions
ndet_loop.c:71: `NSIG' undeclared, outside of functions
ndet_loop.c:85: variable `ndet_sigvec' has initializer but incomplete type
ndet_loop.c:88: parse error before `*'
ndet_loop.c:88: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
ndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_fig_sig_change':
ndet_loop.c:687: `NSIG' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:687: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
ndet_loop.c:687: for each function it appears in.)
ndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_signal_catcher':
ndet_loop.c:751: parse error before `ucontext_t'
ndet_loop.c:764: `sigset_t' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:764: parse error before `newmask'
ndet_loop.c:766: `newmask' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:769: `oldmask' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:777: parse error before `)'
ndet_loop.c:795: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast
ndet_loop.c:798: parse error before `)'
ndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_send_delayed_sigs':
ndet_loop.c:825: `sigset_t' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:825: parse error before `newmask'
ndet_loop.c:837: `newmask' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:839: `oldmask' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:848: parse error before `)'
ndet_loop.c: At top level:
ndet_loop.c:1022: parse error before `*'
ndet_loop.c:85: storage size of `ndet_sigvec' isn't known
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `ndet_loop.o'
rm -f ndet_loop.o shared/ndet_loop.o
gcc -fpcc-struct-return -E   -O2  -I../../.././build/include  -I/usr/X11R5/include  -DSVR4 -DSYSV  -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DOS_HAS_LOCALE -DOS_HAS_MMAP   ndet_loop.c \
gcc -fpcc-struct-return -fPIC   -O2  -I../../.././build/include  -I/usr/X11R5/include  -DSVR4 -DSYSV  -DFUNCPROTO=15 -DOS_HAS_LOCALE -DOS_HAS_MMAP   -c x.c \
-o shared/ndet_loop.o
In file included from ../../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:29, from ../../.././build/include/xview_private/ntfy.h:24, from x.c:18:
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:25: parse error before `sigset_t'
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:25: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:26: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:29: parse error before `}'
/usr/include/sys/ucontext.h:29: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
In file included from ../../.././build/include/xview_private/ntfy.h:24, from x.c:18:
./../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:286: parse error before `*'
./../.././build/include/xview/notify.h:286: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
In file included from x.c:35:
/usr/include/sys/user.h:226: `MAXSIG' undeclared, outside of functions
ndet_loop.c:71: `NSIG' undeclared, outside of functions
ndet_loop.c:85: variable `ndet_sigvec' has initializer but incomplete type
ndet_loop.c:88: parse error before `*'
ndet_loop.c:88: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
ndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_fig_sig_change':
ndet_loop.c:687: `NSIG' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:687: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
ndet_loop.c:687: for each function it appears in.)
ndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_signal_catcher':
ndet_loop.c:751: parse error before `ucontext_t'
ndet_loop.c:764: `sigset_t' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:764: parse error before `newmask'
ndet_loop.c:766: `newmask' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:769: `oldmask' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:777: parse error before `)'
ndet_loop.c:795: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast
ndet_loop.c:798: parse error before `)'
ndet_loop.c: In function `ndet_send_delayed_sigs':
ndet_loop.c:825: `sigset_t' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:825: parse error before `newmask'
ndet_loop.c:837: `newmask' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:839: `oldmask' undeclared (first use this function)
ndet_loop.c:848: parse error before `)'
ndet_loop.c: At top level:
ndet_loop.c:1022: parse error before `*'
ndet_loop.c:85: storage size of `ndet_sigvec' isn't known
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `ndet_loop.o'

Obviously, most of this is due to the problem encountered while including
<sys/ucontext.h> - I've tried several approaches, but can't get past this point.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mahalo nui o kakou,
_______________________________________________________________________________
Henry Stilmack                               )
Computing Systems Manager                    ) Perform random kindnesses
UK/Netherlands/Canada Joint Astronomy Centre )   and senseless acts of beauty
660 N. A'ohoku Place, Hilo, HI 96720         )
hps@jach.Hawaii.Edu       808-969-6530       )


Hello,
   Subject says it all. I need a GIF to Targa converter, so that my
dta15 could make a .FLI of them.
      Krzysztof


                   --              --
                   99              99

	Sombody's data is wrong.  Since Mac OS, Finder, Systerm
or whatever you want to call it doesn't appear in the first
survey, I tend to doubt their results more.  Just because
sombody wrote it doesn't mean its correct.


"The security of the system should depend only on the secrecy of
the keys and not on the secrecy of the algorithms" -- Dorothy Denning


Hi there,

Could someone please suggest one of the better _shareware_
replacements for Win3.1's Program Manager and File Manager?
And which ftp site are they located at?

Thanks in advance for e-mail response.


	My agent is Daniel Sui, and he's done quite a good job
	for me.  You might check with him, as he's located in San
	Francisco and specializes in bike insurance:

		Daniel Sui Insurance
		338 Balboa Street
		San Francisco, CA 94118
		1-415-752-3157

					Michael


yeah, but most of those are Big Hulking Mainframes which have no monitors.

factoid : FAbricated or Corrupted Tidbit of Ordinary Information (Diluted)

ok
dpm


[ ..see previous article on this debate for the rests.. ]

I can see XV-3.00 agree with my view in cases you don't -- even I say
my personal opinion (as above), it doesn't mean that it is not most
obvious thing.
Please, if you use my previous writings as contradicting argument,
please do read them -- you have not saw them at all; you just
refered to text from which I wrote 'something' -- and you make
hard decisions from that, without reading what exactly I have written.

It is really hard read when one writes a reply line by line method
and don't understand include previously written material with the new
sentences to give them meaning. You seem to be one such.

You also start replying to my articles, even you don't understand what
is going on; you ask me repeatedly to decsribe my views what were
wrong with XV 2.21 even I posted them within the article you did reply
to. Believe me, it is not nice to get flamed specially when I know
that you have not read my article carefully in the first place.

XV-3.00 and JPEG FAQ and users I have written to agree me with the
places you didn't; I'm sure you just didn't undertand what about I
wrote. We can blame my writing skills (in English?) for that, or?

Better stop the discussion and check what new ideas XV-3.00 gives;
I allready mailed one to Bradley...


Brad McCrimmon was the captain of the Flames when he was traded to Detroit
following the 1989-90 season. This was during the off-season though.

There's countless examples of captains being traded, I'm sure.


My recently modified Quadra 700 with a socket for clock oscillators has now
completed nearly 40 hours of error free operation at 32 mhz (with a 64 mhz
clock oscillator). I have also tried a 55 mhz CMOS clock and that works as well.
On the more stupid side, I've discovered you can use a 40 mhz clock and make
your Q700 as slow as a Centris 610. However, a 25 mhz clock which would have
yielded a 12.5 mhz Quadra 700 (Who'd want one?) didn't work at all.


What I usually use...and this stuff is only good on glass....is either Acetone,
or a little Benzene. The latter of the two is a bit dangerous (possibly a
carcinogen(sp?)) but it usualy gets the job done. I imagine you can you the two
solvents on most metals as well as glass, but keep the stuff away from plastic.
Better yet, you may just want to go to your local hardware store and ask them
what they use.


This is true. The statement didn't say anything about Christians in general.
It specifically said "strict fundamentalist" Christians. It reflects a
common perception that people have about fundamentalists being strict
disciplinarians. Whether or not this perception is justified is another issue.


The 800 number for Western Digital is 1-800-832-4778.


I want to have some info about Diamond Stealth Pro / 2 MB VRAM:

  - what graphics modes does it support
  - are HI-COLOR modes included to VESA BIOS (for use with DOS programs)
  - any experiences yet (bugs & advantages)
  - how fast is it under Windows and DOS
  - price

Thanks...


<more tripe deleted>

Phill, are you trying to convince everyone on the net that
you are in fact an abject moron for some reason? Repeating
the same rubbish over and over again may make something a
"fact" in whatever backwater you are posting from, but it doesn't
wash here, so save it.