THE WHITE HOUSE

                    Office of the Press Secretary
______________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release                             April 20, 1993

                       REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
            IN QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION WITH THE PRESS

                           The Rose Garden

1:36 P.M. EDT

	     THE PRESIDENT:  On February the 28th, four federal
agents were killed in the line of duty trying to enforce the law
against the Branch Davidian compound, which had illegally stockpiled
weaponry and ammunition, and placed innocent children at risk.
Because the BATF operation had failed to meet its objective, a 51-day
standoff ensued.

	     The Federal Bureau of Investigation then made every
reasonable effort to bring this perilous situation to an end without
bloodshed and further loss of life.  The Bureau's efforts were
ultimately unavailing because the individual with whom they were
dealing, David Koresh, was dangerous, irrational, and probably
insane.

	     He engaged in numerous activities which violated both
federal law and common standards of decency.  He was, moreover,
responsible for the deaths and injuries which occurred during the
action against the compound in February.  Given his inclination
towards violence and in an effort to protect his young hostages, no
provocative actions were taken for more than seven weeks by federal
agents against the compound.

	     This weekend I was briefed by Attorney General Reno on
an operation prepared by the FBI, designed to increase pressure on
Koresh and persuade those in the compound to surrender peacefully.
The plan included a decision to withhold the use of ammunition, even
in the face of fire, and instead to use tear gas that would not cause
permanent harm to health, but would, it was hoped, force the people
in the compound to come outside and to surrender.

	     I was informed of the plan to end the siege.  I
discussed it with Attorney General Reno.  I asked the questions I
thought it was appropriate for me to ask.  I then told her to do what
she thought was right, and I take full responsibility for the
implementation of the decision.

	     Yesterday's action ended in a horrible human tragedy.
Mr. Koresh's response to the demands for his surrender by federal
agents was to destroy himself and murder the children who were his
captives, as well as all the other people who were there who did not
survive.  He killed those he controlled, and he bears ultimate
responsibility for the carnage that ensued.

	     Now we must review the past with an eye towards the
future.  I have directed the United Stated Departments of Justice and
Treasury to undertake a vigorous and thorough investigation to
uncover what happened and why, and whether anything could have been
done differently.  I have told the departments to involve independent
professional law enforcement officials in the investigation.  I
expect to receive analysis and answers in whatever time is required
to complete the review.  Finally, I have directed the departments to
cooperate fully with all congressional inquiries so that we can
continue to be fully accountable to the American people.

	     I want to express my appreciation to the Attorney
General, to the Justice Department, and to the federal agents on the
front lines who did the best job they could under deeply difficult
circumstances.

	     Again, I want to say as I did yesterday, I am very sorry
for the loss of life which occurred at the beginning and at the end
of this tragedy in Waco.  I hope very much that others who will be
tempted to join cults and to become involved with people like David
Koresh will be deterred by the horrible scenes they have seen over
the last seven weeks.  And I hope very much that the difficult
situations which federal agents confronted there and which they will
be doubtless required to confront in other contexts in the future
will be somewhat better handled and better understood because of what
has been learned now.

	     Q	  Mr. President, can you, first of all, tell us why,
after 51 days, you decided --

	     Q	  Mr. President, can you describe for us what it is
that Janet Reno outlined to you in your 15-minute phone conversation
with --

	     THE PRESIDENT:  I can't hear you both.  If one will go
first and then the other.

	     Q	  Sorry.  Can you describe what Janet Reno --

	     Q	  Mr. President --

	     THE PRESIDENT:  I'll answer both your questions, but I
can't do it at once.

	     Q	  Can you describe what she told you on Sunday about
the nature of the operation and how much detail you knew about it?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  Yes.  I was told by the Attorney General
that the FBI strongly felt that the time had come to take another
step in trying to dislodge the people in the compound.  And she
described generally what the operation would be -- that they wanted
to go in and use tear gas which had been tested not to cause
permanent damage to adults or to children, but which would make it
very difficult for people to stay inside the building.  And it was
hoped that the tear gas would permit them to come outside.

	     I was further told that under no circumstances would our
people fire any shots at them even if fired upon.  They were going to
shoot the tear gas from armored vehicles which would protect them and
there would be no exchange of fire.  In fact, as you know, an awful
lot of shots were fired by the cult members at the federal officials.
There were no shots coming back from the government side.

	     I asked a number of questions.  The first question I
asked is, why now?  We have waited seven weeks; why now?  The reasons
I was given were the following:

	     Number one, that there was a limit to how long the
federal authorities could maintain with their limited resources the
quality and intensity of coverage by experts there.  They might be
needed in other parts of the country.

	     Number two, that the people who had reviewed this had
never seen a case quite like this one before, and they were convinced
that no progress had been made recently and no progress was going to
be made through the normal means of getting Koresh and the other cult
members to come out.

	     Number three, that the danger of their doing something
to themselves or to others was likely to increase, not decrease, with
the passage of time.

	     And number four, that they had reason to believe that
the children who were still inside the compound were being abused
significantly, as well as being forced to live in unsanitary and
unsafe conditions.

	     So for those reasons, they wanted to move at that time.
The second question I asked the Attorney General is whether they had
given consideration to all of the things that could go wrong and
evaluated them against what might happen that was good.  She said
that the FBI personnel on the scene and those working with them were
convinced that the chances of bad things happening would only
increase with the passage of time.

	     The third question I asked was, has the military been
consulted?  As soon as the initial tragedy came to light in Waco,
that's the first thing I asked to be done, because it was obvious
that this was not a typical law enforcement situation.  Military
people were then brought in, helped to analyze the situation and some
of the problems that were presented by it.   And so I asked if the
military had been consulted.  The Attorney General said that they
had, and that they were in basic agreement that there was only one
minor tactical difference of opinion between the FBI and the military
-- something that both sides thought was not of overwhelming
significance.

	     Having asked those questions and gotten those answers, I
said that if she thought it was the right thing to do, that she
should proceed and that I would support it.  And I stand by that
today.

	     Q	  Mr. President --

	     THE PRESIDENT:  Wait.  Go ahead.

	     Q	  Can you address the widespread perception --
reported widely, television, radio and newspapers -- that you were
trying somehow to distance yourself from this disaster?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  No, I'm bewildered by it.  The only
reason I made no public statement yesterday -- let me say -- the only
reason I made no public statement yesterday is that I had nothing to
add to what was being said and I literally did not know until rather
late in the day whether anybody was still alive other than those who
had been actually seen and taken to the hospital or taken into
custody.  It was purely and simply a question of waiting for events
to unfold.

	     There was -- I have -- I can't account for why people
speculated one way or the other, but I talked to the Attorney General
on the day before the action took place.  I talked to her yesterday.
I called her again late last night after she appeared on the Larry
King Show, and I talked to her again this morning.  A President -- it
is not possible for a President to distance himself from things that
happen when the federal government is in control.

	     I will say this, however.  I was, frankly, surprised
would be a mild word, to say that anyone that would suggest that the
Attorney General should resign because some religious fanatics
murdered themselves.  (Applause.)

	     I regret what happened, but it is not possible in this
life to control the behavior of others in every circumstance.  These
people killed four federal officials in the line of duty.  They were
heavily armed.  They fired on federal officials yesterday repeatedly,
and they were never fired back on.  We did everything we could to
avoid the loss of life.  They made the decision to immolate
themselves.  And I regret it terribly, and I feel awful about the
children.

	     But in the end, the last comment I had from Janet Reno,
is when -- and I talked to her on Sunday -- I said, now, I want you
to tell me once more why you believe -- not why they believe -- why
you believe we should move now rather than wait some more.  And she
said, it's because of the children.  They have evidence that those
children are still being abused and that they're in increasingly
unsafe conditions, and that they don't think it will get any easier
with time -- with the passage of time.  I have to take their word for
that.  So that is where I think things stand.

	     Q	  Can we assume then that you don't think this was
mishandled in view of the outcome, that you didn't run out of
patience?  And if you had it to do over again, would you really
decide that way?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  No -- well, I think what you can assume
is just exactly what I announced today.  This is a -- the FBI has
done a lot of things right for this country over a long period of
time.  This is the same FBI that found the people that bombed the
World Trade Center in lickety-split, record time.  We want an inquiry
to analyze the steps along the way.  Is there something else we
should have known?  Is there some other question they should have
asked?  Is there some other question I should have asked?  Can I say
for sure that no one -- that we could have done nothing else to make
the outcome come different?  I don't know that.  That's why I want
the inquiry and that's why I would like to make sure that we have
some independent law enforcement people, not political people, but
totally non-political, outside experts who can bring to bear the best
evidence we have.

	     There is, unfortunately, a rise in this sort of
fanaticism all across the world.  And we may have to confront it
again.  And I want to know whether there is anything we can do,
particularly when there are children involved.  But I do think it is
important to recognize that the wrong-doers in this case were the
people who killed others and then killed themselves.

	     Q	  Mr. President, were there any other options
presented to you for resolving this situation at any point from
February 28th until yesterday?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  Well, yes, I got regular reports all
along the way.  There were lots of other options pursued.  If you go
back -- you all covered it very well.  The FBI -- you did a very good
job of it.  I mean, the FBI and the other authorities there pursued
any number of other options all along the way, and a lot of them
early on seemed to be working.  Some of the children got out, some of
the other people left.  There was a -- at one point, there seemed to
be some lines of communication opening up between Koresh and the
authorities.  And then he would say things and not do them and things
just began to spin downward.

	     Whether there were other -- in terms of what happened
yesterday, the conversation I had with the Attorney General did not
involve other options except whether we should take more time with
the present strategy we were pursuing -- because they said they
wanted to do this, because they thought this was the best way to get
people out of the compound quickly before they could kill themselves.
That's what they thought.

	     Q	  Did the government know that the children did not
have gas masks?

	     Q	     congressional hearings once the situation -- are
you in agreement with that?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  That's up to the Congress.  They can do
whatever they want.  But I think it's very important that the
Treasury and Justice Departments launch this investigation and bring
in some outside experts.  And as I said in my statement, if any
congressional committees want to look into it, we will fully
cooperate.  There is nothing to hide here.  This was probably the
most well-covered operation of its kind in the history of the
country.

	     Go ahead, Sarah.

	     Q	  There are two questions I want to ask you.  The
first is, I think that they knew very well that the children did not
have gas masks while the adults did, so the children had no chance
because this gas was very -- she said it was not lethal, but it was
very dangerous to the children and they could not have survived
without gas masks.  And on February 28th -- let's go back -- didn't
those people have a right to practice their religion?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  They were not just practicing their
religion, they were -- the Treasury Department believed that they had
violated federal laws, any number of them.

	     Q	  What federal laws --

	     THE PRESIDENT:  Let me go back and answer -- I can't
answer the question about the gas masks, except to tell you that the
whole purpose of using the tear gas was that it had been tested; they
were convinced that it wouldn't kill either a child or an adult but
it would force anybody that breathed it to run outside.  And one of
the things that I've heard -- I don't want to get into the details of
this because I don't know -- but one of the things that they were
speculating about today was that the wind was blowing so fast that
the windows might have been opened and some of the gas might have
escaped and that may be why it didn't have the desired effect.

	     They also knew, Sarah, that there was an underground
compound -- a bus buried underground where the children could be
sent.  And they were -- I think they were hoping very much that if
the children were not released immediately outside that the humane
thing would be done and that the children would be sent someplace
where they could be protected.

	     In terms of the gas masks themselves, I learned
yesterday -- I did not ask this fact question before -- that the gas
was supposed to stay active in the compound longer than the gas masks
themselves were to work.  So that it was thought that even if they
all had gas masks, that eventually the gas would force them out in a
nonviolent, nonshooting circumstance.

	     MS. MYERS:  Last question.

	     Q	  Mr. President, why are you still saying that --

	     Q	  Could you tell us whether or not you ever asked
Janet Reno about the possibility of a mass suicide?  And when you
learned about the actual fire and explosion what went through your
mind during those horrendous moments?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  What I asked Janet Reno is if they had
considered all the worse things that could happen.  And she said --
and, of course, the whole issue of suicide had been raised in the
public -- he had -- that had been debated anyway.  And she said that
the people who were most knowledgeable  about these kinds of issues
concluded that there was no greater risk of that now than there would
be tomorrow or the next day or the day after that or at anytime in
the future.  That was the judgment they made.  Whether they were
right or wrong, of course, we will never know.

	     What happened when I saw the fire, when I saw the
building burning?  I was sick.  I felt terrible.  And my immediate
concern was whether the children had gotten out and whether they were
escaping or whether they were inside, trying to burn themselves up.
That's the first thing I wanted to know.

	     Thank you.

	     Q	  Mr. President, why are you still saying it was a
Janet Reno decision?  Isn't it, in the end, your decision?

	     THE PRESIDENT:  Well, what I'm saying is that I didn't
have a four- or five-hour, detailed briefing from the FBI.  I didn't
go over every strategic part of it.  It is a decision for which I
take responsibility.  I'm the President of the United States and I
signed off on the general decision and giving her the authority to
make the last call.  When I talked to her on Sunday, some time had
elapsed.  She might have made a decision to change her mind.  I said,
if you decide to go forward with this tomorrow, I will support you.
And I do support her.

	     She is not ultimately responsible to the American
people; I am.  But I think she has conducted her duties in an
appropriate fashion and she has dealt with this situation I think as
well as she could have.

	     Thank you.  (Applause.)


I read it. I found it wonderful. For some reason (no flames,
please), I was reminded of Hemingway, Carl Orff and Van Gogh (not
all at once, though).


As St. Augustine said, "I did not invent original sin, which the
Catholic faith holds from ancient time; but you, who deny it, without a
doubt are a follower of a new heresy."  (De nuptiis, lib. 11.c.12)]


I've only ever seen this called once.  Back around 1979-1980.  I think
that Steve Carlton was pitching.  On the other hand, I am not sure how
much effect this would have.  It seems that most of the time lost is
when there are runners on base and the rule does not cover this.

I have wondered why a pitcher is given 8 pitches when he enters the
game.  Let's be serious.  The relief pitcher has normally been
throwing out in the bullpen for a few minutes.  Does he really need 8
more pitches?


Since you asked, the above is a bit inaccurate. More accurate is that the
government says its solid, other people in the field who might be able to
find out haven't yet done their review of the chip design, and there's been
a lot of wild speculation and guesswork from those with little information
that it might be Swiss cheese.

David


Just from experience, seeing a couple of houses burn down, one doesn't
need any accelerant to get a lot of black soot.  There's plenty of
stuff in a house that will burn 'dirty'.  Even the asphalt shingles
would make a really sooty smoke.


A great deal of documentation exists on exactly that phenomenon. Especially
regarding Vietnam and the Mai Lai (sp?) massacre

Not that I'm suggesting that they started it on purpose but even if they
now know that they accidentally started (or contributed to it) you can
be sure the initial reaction is to lie. Remember the Iranian airliner
which the US navy mistook for a fighter and shot down?


At the moment, I am using a Sun 3/80 (cgfour/bwtwo) with SunOS 4.0.3
and OpenWindows 2.0.

This configuration is slow and I can't run all the programs on OW2. For
example, when I start a mailtool from OW3 and display it on my OW2
display, I can't open the compose window.

I want to install an X11R5 or X11R4 server on my Sun and use xdm (yes,
we have xdm already running for other X-Terminals) to log in and start
the X programs.

Is there a "ready to go" binairy of the X11 server for my configuration
(I have read something about Xsun), or must I compile the X11 stuff by
myself?

Any help is welcome

	V. Smeets


It first depends on what an idle cpu is doing!

I'm not sure about DOS, but many multitasking OSs have an loop like this

loop:
	is there anything to do?
		YES -> do it; goto loop
		NO  -> goto loop

The CPU is not doing any work but it is still processing instructions...

It will also respond to interupts...

Guy


I just wanted to point out, that Teflon wasn't from the space program.
It was from the WWII nuclear weapons development program.  Pipes in the
system for fractioning and enriching uranium had to be lined with it.

Uranium Hexafloride was the chemical they turned the pitchblend into for
enrichment.  It is massively corrosive.  Even to Stainless steels. Hence
the need for a very inert substaance to line the pipes with.  Teflon has
all its molecular sockets bound up already, so it is very unreactive.

My 2 sense worth.


Hello,

	I am admin for an RS/6000 running AIX 3.2, X11R5, Motif, and xdt3.
	I want to prevent the user from hitting CNTL-ALT-BKSPC to exit X.

	I've tried invoking X with 'xinit -T', but that doesn't work.
	xinit appends the -T to the call to .xinitrc, and not to the
	call to X.

	The man page to xinit is no help.  In fact, it tells
	me that xinit is a script when it is really a binary file.

	So far, the only way I've been able to accomplish this feat is
	to add the -T to the call to X in /usr/lpp/X11/defaults/xserverrc.
	I would rather not do it this way.  Does anyone have any other ideas?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Brian DeFord				Internet: deford@netwrx1.nw1.com
  Open Networks, Inc.			Usenet:   uunet!netwrx1!deford
  11490 Commerce Park Dr. #205		Tel:      703-648-0013
  Reston, VA 22091			FAX:      703-648-0016


A while ago I saw some translucent pads, about 6"x8" or so that
could be plugged into (something) and they would glow.  One was red,
another green, another blue.  Interresting.  I was wondering if anyone
would have a feed on anything of this nature, and of the price.
   oh, the pads were rubber-like and were floppy like, about 1cm thick or
so.

                Thanks.

  _________________________________________________
  Inspiration  |   ___                             |
  comes to     |  \   o  baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca |
  those who    | (  ^  ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca |
  seek the     |   /-\      =] Baden de Bari [=    |
  unknown.     |                                   |


Did anyone install xdbx v2.1.2 on SGI workstation ?

Thanks for your answer.		Gildas PERROT.


-*----

Far from being "tossed out," the gospels are taken, almost
universally, as the primary source of information about Jesus.
I am curious as to whom Mike Cobb is referring.  Who "tosses out"
the New Testament?  Undoubtedly a few *naive* atheists do this,
but the phrasing of the question above seems to suggest that Cobb
ascribes this more broadly.

Perhaps the question that gets more to the heart of the matter is
why, except for some *naive* believers (who, unfortunately, far
outnumber nonbelievers, both naive and critical), are the gospels
*not* taken as "gospel truth" that faithfully records just what
happened two thousand years ago?  This has an easy answer, and
the answer has *nothing* to do with miracles: no text is taken
this way by a critical reader.

There is a myth among some naive believers that one takes a text,
measures it by some set of criteria, and then either confirms the
text as "historically valid" or "tosses out" the text.  I suspect
this myth comes from the way history is presented in primary and
secondary school, where certain texts are vested with authority,
and from writers such as Josh McDowell who pretend to present
historical arguments along these lines for their religious
program.  In fact, most texts used in primary and secondary
school history classes ought to be tossed out, even the better
such texts should not be treated as authoritatively as descibed
above, and Josh McDowell would not know a historical argument if
it bit him on the keister twice.

Let me present the barest outlines of a different view of texts
and their use in studying history.  First, all texts are
historically valid.  ALL texts.  Or to put this another way, I
have never seen a notion of "historical validity" that makes any
sense when applied to a text.  Second, no text should be read as
telling the "gospel truth" about historical events, in the way
that many students are wont to read history texts in primary and
secondary school.  NO text.  (This includes your favorite
author's history of whatever.)

Every text is a historical fact.  Every text was written by some
person (or some group of people) for some purpose.  Hence, every
text can serve as historical evidence.  The question is: what can
we learn from a text?  Of what interesting things (if any) does
the text provide evidence?

The diaries of the followers of the Maharishi, formerly of
Oregon, are historical evidence.  The gospels are historical
evidence.  The letters of the officers who participated in the
vampire inquests in Eastern Europe are historical evidence.  The
modern American history textbooks that whitewash "great American
figures" are historical evidence.  These are all historical
evidence of various things.  They are *not* much evidence at all
that the Maharishi, formerly of Oregon, could levitate; that
Jesus was resurrected; that vampires exist; or that "great
American figures" are as squeaky clean as we learned in school.
They are better evidence that some people "saw" the Maharishi,
late of Oregon, levitate; that some of the early Christians
thought Jesus was resurrected; that many people in Eastern Europe
"saw" vampires return from the grave; and that we still have an
educational system that largely prefers to spread myth rather
than teach history.

How does one draw causal connections and infer what a piece of
historical evidence -- text or otherwise -- evinces?  This is a
very complex question that has no easily summarized answer.
There are many books on the subject or various parts of the
subject.  I enjoy David Hackett Fischer's "Historian's Fallacies"
as a good antidote to the uncritical way in which it is so easy
to read texts present history.  It's relatively cheap.  It's easy
to read.  Give it a try.


Well, it seems we don't learn the lessons of history do we?

I was hoping that Kent State taught us a lesson.

Apparently not.

Apparently the government will murder anyone they choose to still.

---
Rawlin Blake    blake@nevada.edu


Well, I'm finally about to key in the official rules for the archives, but
before I do, I will ask again...

does anybody have the official MLB rules in electronic format?

Just trying to save myself a ton of work...no, they don't scan well because
of the ridiculous format they're printed in.

thanks

- Matt

Matt Wall * wall@cc.swarthmore.edu * Hey, I gotta job here, OK?


This would be susceptible to fading, multi-path etc. We used to use a
system at the shop made by Tellurometer in South Africa. It used a
10 GHz signal between 2 units across the distance to be measured.
The 10 GHz was just the carrier: the real signals were several switched
ones around 7.5 MHz or so, whose relative phases at the receiver would
read out the digits of the distance down to 10 cm if needed. The units
came with psychrometers (sp?) to measure the relative humidity and
instructions for correction of the measurements due to RH and temp.
They were rather heavy and required an operator at each end.
Current technology uses polarized reflectors, dual polaization TX/RX
and psuedo-random coding of a radar pulse. about the same resolution
at X band, much better at 47GHz. (Only one end is heavy :-)  ).

Regards, Stu Beal, VE3MWM, U009@CSX.CCIW.CA,
National Water Research Institute, Burlington, Ontario, Canada.


In other words, the right of might.

In other words, the right of might.

In other words, he can do it, he did it, and your in no position to
argue about it.

In other words, you better do what this God wants you to do, or else!


Well, where is he?  Another false Messiah shot down in flames.

Matthew 24:4
   "Watch out that no one deceives you.  For many will come in my
    name, claiming, 'I am the Christ', and will deceive many."

Matthew 24:23
   "At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!'
    or 'There he is!' do not believe it.  For false Christs and
    false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles
    to deceive even the elect - if that were possible.  See, I have
    told you ahead of time."

Do we listen?  Sadly, not all of us do.

Peace be with you, and condolences to the families of those lost at
Waco.

Malcolm Lee


Curiously enough, this subject has occupied a good bit of my prayer life
recently.  God's experience of time is so completely different from our own,
since He is both within and without it.  Using words like "foreknowledge"
and "predestination" are semantically incorrect when it comes to describing
God's perception of our action, because, for God, the beginning, living, and
ending of our lives are all the same.  Sort of.  For God, there is no "before"
when He did not know, so he could not have "foreknowledge" of our lives or
a time when he could have "predestined" our actions.  In fact, since our
understanding of things is so tied to our linear experience of time, I
would say that it is impossible for us to understand completely how our
free will interacts with God's control of the universe.


My mother has been advised to have a bone scan performed?  What is this
procedure for, and is it painful?  She's been having leg and back pain
which her GP said was sciatica.  Her oncologist listened to her symptoms
and said that it didn't sound like sciatica, and she should get a bone
scan.


But I have to agree.. Boston is a good team..  But streaky...  They put
together a great streak to capture first place in the Adams, but for what?

They have lost the home ice advantage for at least the first round, and might
not make it out of it.

I would love to see the Sabres win the first round, even though I bet on the
Bruins (a 12-pack).

Oh well, perhaps I should start betting against the Sabres more often! ;-)


Does anyone here know where I can find a modem and comm. software for
an Apple IIe?  I would prefer in Manhattan, but New Jersey would
work too.  David Tillyer, DATCC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU


Lets talk about principles. If we accept that God sets the
standards for what ought to be included in Scripture - then we
can ask:
1. Is it authoritative?
2. Is it prophetic?
3. Is it authentic?
4. Is it dynamic?
5. Is it received, collected, read and used?

On these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God.
To quote Unger's Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha:
1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and
anachronisms.
2. They teach doctrines which are false and foster practices
which are at variance with sacred Scripture.
3. They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of
subject matter and styling out of keeping with sacred Scripture.
4. They lack the distinctive elements which give genuine
Scripture their divine character, such as prophetic power and
poetic and religious feeling.

But the problem with this argument lies in the assumption that
the Hebrew canon included the Apocrapha in the first place, and
it wasn't until the sixteenth century that Luther and co. threw
them out. The Jewish council you mentioned previously didn't
accept them, so the reformation protestants had good historical
precedence for their actions. Jerome only translated the
apocrapha under protest, and it was literally 'over his dead
body' that it was included in the catholic canon.

How do you then view the words: "I warn everyone who  hears the
words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to
them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from this book the prophecy, God will
take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the
holy city" (Rev 22.18-9)
Surely this sets the standard and not just man-made traditions.

It is also noteworthy to consider Jesus' attitude. He had no
argument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John
10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus
that in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the
OT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51
taking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say
Genesis to Malachi) as Scripture.

I am not familiar with the book.
Some other arguments you might like to consider are found in
Chapter 3 of Josh McDowell's Evidence That Demands A Verdict.


Though I think this an overstatement, it does contain a grain of truth. It's
drug dealers, spies, terrorists, and organized crime figures (assuming
enough probable cause to convince a judge) who need to be watched, not
law-abiding citizens.

David


Yes, I have both Arts & Letters and CorelDraw.  I personally like
Arts & Letters better but there are things I like about Arts & Letters
that CorelDraw doesn't do an vice-versa.  I haven't found the perfect
graphics program that does everything yet.

My favorite feature from CorelDraw is that it imports alot of different
formats.  Arts & Letters does not.  I like the thousands of clipart
available with Arts & Letters.  However, I do find looking them up
in a book and referencing them by number to be annoying.

One of my major problems is that there isn't any programs available on
the market for the artistically deprived :-).


PhaNG, the Philadelphia Area NEXTSTEP User Group, will be holding a public
sneak preview of NEXTSTEP for Intel Processors.

Where: David Rittenhouse Labs Room A1
       33rd And Walnut, southeast corner, Philadelphia PA
When:  Wednesday, May 5th
       7 pm to 9 pm

NEXTSTEP is the 32 bit UNIX based operating environment which has, until now,
only been available on Motorola-based NeXT computers. In the May 11th issue
of PC Magazine called NEXTSTEP a "Hot Prospect". Now, NeXT is nearing release
of a version of NEXTSTEP which will run on 486-based PC's, yet is identical to
the 68040 version. In fact, NEXTSTEP 3.1 includes the ability to easily
compile a program into a single binary which will run on both Intel and
Motorola hardware.

NEXTSTEP 3.1 for Intel Processors will be demonstrated on an Epson Progression
486 computer. NEXTSTEP is scheduled for release on May 25 at NeXTWorld Expo
in San Francisco.

The demonstration will be open to the public. Come one come all! If you are
interested in seeing the most advanced PC operating system around, come on by!

For a brief summary of what NEXTSTEP offers, see the May 11th issue of
PC Magazine, page 66.

For more information, contact me:

Jonathan Hendry
PhaNG, the Philadelphia Area NEXTSTEP User Group
215-653-0911

jon@afs.com

--
Jonathan W. Hendry
Drexel University College Of Info. Studies
tjhendry@queen.mcs.drexel.edu

"The experience of programming Windows vs. the experience of
programming NeXTStep is like going to the dentist and having a root canal
without anaesthetic vs. going to the dentist and having your gums cleaned
w/some nitrous-oxide thrown in for the entertainment side of things."
bbum@stone.co

--
Jonathan W. Hendry
Drexel University College Of Info. Studies
tjhendry@queen.mcs.drexel.edu


                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^

Benzene is most definitely a carcinogen. If you can get your hands on it

* Don't use it! *


The May 1993 cover of QST has a picture of three different boards without
any solder mask (you can tell from the copper colored traces). The box
labeled 2304 transverter has the brown teflon/glass board, while the one
in the center has the grayish board exposed.  On the left is some
fiberglass board that looks green to me.  I see no reason
for putting solder mask on circuit board used for box covers :-).

I wonder if any manufacturer actually puts a solder mask on their
low noise microwave preamps?  Often, microwave circuits have odd
bits of wire/foil/metal attached to wherever/whatever is necessary
to make the unit work properly (this is a commercial product?).  A
solder mask would certainly make doing this tougher, never mind
the finding something that minimally degrades the circuits.  (Q dope
for coils *does* not improve the Q--it just holds things together with
minimal loss).

Zack Lau  KH6CP/1

Internet: zlau@arrl.org           "Working" on 24 GHz SSB/CW gear
			          Operating Interests: 10 GHz CW/SSB/FM
US Mail: c/o ARRL Lab				       80/40/20 CW
	225 Main Street		  Station capability: QRP, 1.8 MHz to 10 GHz
	Newington CT  06111	               modes: CW/SSB/FM/packet
						      amtor/baudot
Phone (if you really have to): 203-666-1541

Zack Lau  KH6CP/1

Internet: zlau@arrl.org           "Working" on 24 GHz SSB/CW gear
			          Operating Interests: 10 GHz CW/SSB/FM
US Mail: c/o ARRL Lab				       80/40/20 CW
	225 Main Street		  Station capability: QRP, 1.8 MHz to 10 GHz
	Newington CT  06111	               modes: CW/SSB/FM/packet
						      amtor/baudot
Phone (if you really have to): 203-666-1541


[much blathering on the Role Of Military Forces in
Enforcing Civil Law deleted]

The main problem with trying to get the Military involved in Police work
is the differences in the missions.

The Police take names, try and find out what happened,
stop suspects (thats the meaning of 'arrest') and
turn them over to the custody of the Judicial Branch
for the adjudication of their case.

The Military's mission is to kill the enemy before
they can escape or surrender.

chus
pyotr


I was privelged enough to experience my first Volvo attack this weekend.

I was last in a line of traffic that was about 6 vehicles long, riding
down Rt. 40 in Groton Ma.  At the side of the road, sitting off on the
shoulder was the killer Volvo in question.  No brake lights, no turn signal,
nothing.  We were doing about 40 mph and I was following the cage in front
of me about 2.5-3 sec. back.  Well, as said cage passes the Volvo, the
Brain Dead Idiot (tm) behind the wheel decides that she doesn't need to wait
for me to pass also and turns out perpendicular across both lanes of traffic
so that she can turn around...  So I get on the brakes in a effort to not
T-bone it, and the horn in an effort to wake the BDI up.  As she finishes
the turn, she looks up at me with a completely blank, uncomprehending
stare.

Where can I get rocket launchers for the VFR?

Dean


It's gotta be an HBP.


I don't think I've changed my stance at all.  My original stance was that
a painless execution was not a cruel one.  I didn't say what would be
considered cruel, only that a painless death wasn't.  Now, cruelty must
involve some sort of suffering, I believe.  I don't think someone that gets
shot in the head or electrocuted really suffers very much.  Even a hanging
probably produces one sharp instance of pain, but it's over so quickly...

Pardon?

No.  Well, again I stated that a painless death isn't cruel, but I don't
think I stated that all painful executions *are* cruel.  I think that some
are cruel, depending on the nature and duration of the pain.

Anything more than an instant, I guess.  Any death by suffocation
asphyxiation, or blood loss would be cruel, I think (this includes the
gas chamber, and drawing and quartering).  I'd say that any pain that
lasts, say, over twenty seconds or so would be too long (but this may
be an arbitrary cutoff, I suppose).


You know, I'm a Ford fan, I must say, so I'm looking forward to the next
Mustang.  I have faith that it will be a fine product, more desireable
than the Camaro is now.  You know, that's MHO.

The differences these days between Ford and GM are not so much the quality,
just the philosophy.  It used to be quality _and_ philosophy.  GM is
barely catching up, but they have more room for improvement that
can only be made up in time.  STSs still come off the assembly line
with screwed up paint stripes and poor trunk/door/hood/panel alignments;
it's those 75 year old plants.  And the latest GM products still come
with the standard equipment RattleDash (tm).  But like I said, they're
getting better and making the move in the right direction.

They beat Ford to the market with the Camaro/Firebird, but really only
in words.  Production of these vehicles will be limited until the
end of the year, keeping selling prices above MSRP for the most part
since there are so many twitching Camaro fans out there.  I wouldn't
press Ford to hurry the Mustang since the final wait could be worth it.
Besides, no bow-tie fanatic is gonna buy the Mustang anyway.

I do not put much stock in the mag rags' "inside" information, or even
Ford rep quotes.  The Taurus was pretty much a surprise when it was
finally disclosed in it's entirety.  "Inside" information had the
Taurus with a V8 and rear-wheel drive at one point.  I wouldn't look
for a simple re-paneled Mustang, folks; you may be cheating yourself
if you do.  There's a lot of potential.  Ford hasn't released a new
car without a 4-wheel IS in 7 years.  The Mustang project has been
brewing for at least 4, right?  A 4-wheel IS could happen.  Those
modular V8's are out there, too.  In the interest of CAFE and
competition, don't rule those out, either.   Your ignorant if you do.
And there are so many spy shots and artist renderings out there,
who really knows what it'll look like?  The Mach III?  Doubt it.
Highly.

The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
believe Ford will forfeit that.

I submit that the Mustang will be a success.  Enough to elicit
defensive remarks from some heavy Camaro fans here.  You know,
intelligent, critical spews like, "The Mustang bites, man!"  Some of
you are already beginning.  I predict that the Mustang and Camaro
will be comparable performers, as usual.  I predict that the
differences will be in subjective areas like looks and feel, as usual.
The Camaro is still a huge automobile; the Mustang will retain its
cab-rearward styling and short, pony-car wheelbase.  The Camaro still
reaches out to the fighter pilot, while the Mustang will appeal to
the driver.  The Camaro will still sell to the muscle car set, while
the Mustang will continue to sell to the college-degreed muscle car set.
Both will be more refined (I do think the Camaro is).  There will be
no clear winner.

Unless the Ford gets the 32v, 300hp Romeo.  You don't seriously believe
that it was designed for the Mark VIII only, do you?

:^)

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.


I've been wondering about this myself.  The house wiring thing is really
hokey.  There is no doubt that high pressure ultrasound is annoying, but to
whom?  Given that these devices have been advertised to be effective against
everything from insects to rodents to nasty dogs, what is to say that my
insect repeller won't just annnoy my dog and give me headaches?  Could there
be that much selectivity in frequencies?  Have there been ANY studies
on the effects of various pressure levels, bands, and sweep patterns on
various life forms?

And how effective could they be?  I certainly would not want to tell anyone
that they are safe from nasty dogs because they were carrying a piezoelectric
buzzer...


OFFICIAL UNITED NATIONS SOUVENIR FOLDERS

Each contains all the stamps issued for that year along with descriptive
information regarding each issue. The stamps are mint never hinged. The
RETAIL (not catalog) prices listed are from the leading United Nations
dealer, Mike Armus. The stamps were issued for use by the U.N. offices
in New York and Geneva Switzerland.

Price: TAKE 50% the current retail price for any folder. Take 10 or more
folders take 60% OFF the total. Take all 32 folders take 65% off the total.
In many cases these folders are priced at or below the face value of the
stamps, particularly the Geneva ones.

YEAR	New York	Geneva
----	--------	------
1963	$9.75
1964	$4.50
1965	$5.95
1966	$2.75
1967	$2.75
1968	$5.95
1969	$2.45		$7.50
1970	$2.75		$8.95
1971	$2.75		$5.50
1972	$3.75		$6.35
1973	$2.75		$4.95
1974	$3.75		$5.75
1975	$3.45		$6.75
1976	$7.45		$7.35
1977	$3.50		$5.45
1978	$4.50		$5.35
1979	$4.15		$5.25
1980	$4.25		$4.75
1981	$4.85		$4.50

Shipping: Add 25 cents per folder to cover actual first class shipping cost.
Foreign orders, I will charge the actual shipping cost (airmail), let me
know how many folders you want.


Anyone have a phone number for Applied Engineering so I can give them
a call?


Supernovae put out 10^53 or 10^54 (i forget which, but it's only an
order of magnitude...).  Not in gamma rays, though.  You'd hafta get
all of that into gammas if they were at 9 Mpc, but if a decent fraction
of the SN output was in gammas it could reasonably be extragalactic
(but closer than 9 Mpc).  I dunno SN theory so well, but I can't think
of how to get many gammas out.  Maybe I should look it up.

Big radio galaxies can put out 10^46 erg/s *continually*.  That's just
in the radio... there are a lot of gammas around them, too, but "bursts"?
Nah.

Neither of these should be taken as explanations... just trying to show
that those energies *are* produced by things we know about.


Yes, but still not a 6502 for those differences.  Same instruction set,
of course.

Yes, the same number, but an entirely different device.  I should have
qualified this further by stating that this was the PAL version of the TIA -
I am not 100% sure that the NTSC TIA would have a different number.

Does anyone on the net actually have details of the TIA, as this is the only
device I have not yet discovered details about?  Atari Australia, when asked,
claimed that their attempts to get the programmers documentation for the 2600
had failed, as the US head office had refused to provide it.

I saw a couple of cheaper devices with PN2222's and a couple of resistors
hooked up as a cheap inverter.  Nasty, but workable, and cheaper than a
7404 inverter if labor costs almost nothing.


Only problem is that Zombo was traded to St. Louis last year for goalie
Vincent Riendeau.

I think that while Chevy is not among the elite class of goalies, he is
adequate given the offensive firepower of the Wings.


FOR SALE

PC TOOLS VERSION 7.1

All original disks and manuals included.

$50 or best offer

Please send replies to gt7187c@prism.gatech.edu


I'd like to hear stories on experiences with the Hyundai Sonata.  I
know Consumer Reports has trashed them but the people I know that
have them swear by them.  They also haven't had the problems with
them that Consumer Reports claims.  I haven't driven one yet.  I
have driven a '93 Hyundai Elantra (which Consumer Reports also
trashed) and was very impressed with it.  The local Hyundai
dealership ("no-haggle" policy) is offering an Elantra GLS w/ power
moonroof for $13163.  They also have a Sonata base, w/ Sunroof for
$13997.  I know my preference is for a Sonata GLS w/ sunroof and
4-spd automatic.  I'll decide which engine I prefer after test
driving both the 4-cyl and the V6.  The Sonata is also offering a
$1500 rebate.  Hmmm, that's another question.  Is the following
scenario the appropriate manner to handle "negotiation"?

1.  make offer
2.  subtract rebate from offer
3.  talk trade
4.  subtract trade from offer to get final price


Whatever happened to uwm? Is it still available in some form? It's
been years since I used it or heard anyone talk about it.
--


Michael J. Fox was on Letterman about a year ago (or two) during the
playoffs as a celebrity hockey player for the Bruins.  While he's not
exactly a NHLer he did mention that the Bruins wanted to break Ulfie's
legs (or something like that) in response to the Neely incident.  It
was quite amusing, as one of the few Letterman viewers who actually knew
what he was talking about.  Anybody know who the Pens celebrity hockey
player is?  Michael Douglas (aka Michael Keaton)?


[some deleted]

One thing that seems ambiguous is whether a signal being echoed down from
geosynchronous orbit is "...from outside the United States."

Also, being able to assess whether NSA is playing by the rules requires
knowing what the rules are. We only know a subset. For those even more
suspicious, there could be other surveillance organizations "blacker"
than the NSA.


Dream machine quality ain't what it used to be

Kinetic Art did some great paint jobs on Bimotas. Don't know if they are still
around.


I was just wondering if anyone new how I could get the BETA version of Windows
NT, and be part of the BETA program.

Thanks

gel@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca


I really think you are comparing apples and oranges. Nobody disputes
that OS/2 has more big OS features. The question is Does an
individual need the power. The sales of Windows vs OS/2 answer that
question. The next question is even if I did want to run OS/2
and I had this big monster machine to run it on, is there a diverse
set of applications to run on it that allow me to productviely do my
work. Go to your local computer store to answer this one.
I think the comparison you need to be doing is NT vs OS2/2.1. This
is where the new battle lines will be drawn. Windows 3.1 has won
the single user PC war the next one will be the client server
war and the entries are NT, OS2/2.1, UNIX and Netware 4.0.
Granted these OS's will be eventually scaled down to be
attractive to the single user PC and that will probably be phase II'
of the war. Who wins only the marketplace will tell but it sure
is fun watching and arguing about it tho.
Thx Dave L


 Many thanks for the replies I received to this. A couple of people
suggested how I could get the paint package to work properly, but in the
end I took the advice of someone else to try Paintshop Pro from
cica.indiana.edu.

 Thanks again.

--Philip


From article <1993May14.023220.1@vax1.tcd.ie>, by apryan@vax1.tcd.ie:

Hmmm... Atlantis left Eureca in a 28 degree orbit. Retrieving it is
going to be *REALLY* fun if they fly to 57 degrees. Torque that
Canadarm! :-)


I remember a simple program that would play those chimes for you when you
clicked their respective buttons.  Does anyone know where that is?  This was
circa 1988, I think.

Cheers,
-e.


Another name for this region is Cis-Jordan.


#
# >>   I am not aware of any such incidents.
# >
# >
# >> I've read most of the history books dealing with this period,
# >> good and bad, and while it is possible that I missed one or two,
# >> none of those I've read documents any razing of mosques. So I
# >> think that this remarkable claim requires specific documentation.
# >
# >For the forgetful newcomers, here are the references.
# >
# >The reference I based my posting on originally is the book "The West
# >Bank Story", by Rafik Halabi (New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich
# >1982.  Original title: Die Westbank Story).
# >
# >Quoting from The West Bank Story, pages 35-36:
# >"On the night of June 10, an Israeli officer marched from door to door
# >through the Moghrabi Quarter [of East Jerusalem] giving the residents
# >three hours' notice to evacuate their homes.
# >
# >... [The participants in a
# >July 24, 1967 meeting of a group of Arab relgious and political
# >figures] protested the immodest dress of Israelis visiting the mosques
# >and the destruction of two mosques in the Moghrabi Quarter adjacent to
# >the Western Wall."
#
# This issue has been going on for a while and your presentation here of
# just one reference probably won't resolve this issue to those that
# oppose your insistence that mosques *were* destroyed. Even in your
# location of this one reference, you spend most of your quote dealing
# with an incidence that, while abhorrant, has nothing to do with the
# issue at hand here. Then, at the end of the quote, there is an almost
# off-hand comment that "two mosques" were destroyed.

  Tim, you're missing the big sleight-of-hand here.  I can accept every
  word quoted from Halabi and still have ZERO evidence of any mosques
  being razed.  Note that what Halabi refers to is not that mosques
  were razed but that people PROTESTED alleged razing.  Too well we
  know that this is a common demagogic tactic (or has anyone forgotten
  the Temple Mount riots, when the Moslem crowd was led to believe
  that the Israeli Guards were there to cover for the TMF instead of
  stop them?)


   >I wouldn't think so.  Asking people to trust a secret algorithm seems
   >unsound to me.

   Maybe so, but it's quite common. There are millions of Macintosh users who
   have no idea what's in Apple's patented ROMs. Many have modems connected.
   How do you know all your business secrets aren't being stolen? Answer:
   1. Because you trust Apple;
   2. Because if any such attempt, however sophicsticated, came out, it would
   destroy Apple's credibility forever.

Then there's also
3) Because it's NOT SECRET.  If I want to, I CAN go look at Apple's
copyrighted ROMs in a Mac, so they're not keeping any secrets.
You don't even have to pry the top off the chip and use an electron microscope,
you just have to read the data in memory and see if you can figure out what it means.
(Motorola object code isn't all *that* obscure!)
Yes, it's copyrighted, so I can't go selling copies, or using the copy myself,
but I CAN see it, and disassemble it.

4) They're not asking me to trust their honesty.  They're asking me to
trust the quality of their assembly language programming :-),
but I can see for myself what the performance, price, and crashes/day are.
NSA, an organization not known for its honesty or openness,
is asking me to trust them with my privacy, but they won't trust me.  Feh!


Markus> NNTP-Posting-Host: samos.uni-paderborn.de

Markus> Hello everybody out there !

Markus> I'm trying to compile X11R5pl23 and Motif 1.2.1 on a HP running
Markus> HP-UX 8.05. But it' seems to be not very succesful, because
Markus> I have only hp.cf config-files for HP-UX 7.0.

Markus> I tried standard cc and X was compiled with a lot of warnings.
Markus> The motif applications are compiled quite well, but they won't run.
Markus> I receive the XKeysymDB error which is reported in FAQ, but
Markus> I cannot fix it. The XKeysymDB-file is at the right location and it
Markus> works fine under SunOS.
Markus> Probably I have started the compilation Prozess only with a wrong
Markus> config-file.

Markus> Please help me !
Markus>
Markus> Thanx in advance
Markus>   Markus

If you installed X lib Xt by redefining ProjectRoot, you will find that
 during the install it recompiles one of the files in X lib that does the
search for XKeysmDB and embeds the search path for the file based on whatever
ProjectRoot was defined. TO confirm this what happened, because I'm
guessing, go to mit/lib/X and do
strings XStrKeySym.o | egrep XKeysymDB


   I know the roads up there in Minnesota are pretty bad, but I doubt that
they are THAT bad.  I've never realy tried to watch my back tyre but, my 82
Maxim 750 will pull the front wheel off the ground if I pop the clutch.
Admittedly, it is easier with someone on back, maybe that's what keeps the
rear tyre down.  ;-)


Here's a summary of Don Cherry's Coach's Corner from April 23, 1993.
It was taken from a tape delay of a Vancouver-Winnipeg game, but
it was filmed during the Toronto-Detroit game that night. I think
it was also shown during the Calgary-LA game.

(Warning... Anti-fighting people may want to skip this post.)

Topics
------

Don's Tie, Doug Gilmour, Wings/Leafs, Quebec/Montreal, Boston/Buffalo,
Wendel Clark, Fighting and Stickwork.

Episode Summary
---------------

Once again, the episode started with a shot of Don's tie... This
was a different tie than last time. Don pointed out some of the
characters on the tie, but gave them different names... Felix the
Cat (Sylverster), Maclean (Daffy Duck), etc.

Ron Maclean asked Don what he thought of the current Wings-Leafs
game. Don thought it was good. Burns told the Leaf players "They
won in their building, we're going to win in ours".

Don then began to praise Gilmour again. Don pointed out that Gilmour
has never got less than 2 points or a goal in any game since he
got 5 points in a game against St. Louis.  (Don also claims that
he gave a lot of encouragement to Gilmour, which was partly responsible
for his good play.) Several clips were then shown of Gilmour
from the series... A hit on Constantinov, and a pass to Andrewchuk
resulting in a goal.

On the game itself, the Wings were taking a lot of penalties in
the first period. The Wings have enough talent to score short handed
however, and when the Leafs get a power play, Coach Burns tells
the Leaf players "Don't let them score on you".

Ron brought up the previous Quebec-Montreal game. [Note: Montreal
won that game in overtime, despite having a possible game winner
disqualified because it was batted in with a high stick.] Don
thought the high stick was obvious, even without the use of
instant replay.

On the Buffalo-Boston series [Note: Buffalo is currently winning
the series 3-0], Don gave full credit to Goaltender Grant Fuhr.
Fuhr should be getting 1/2 the team's playoff checks for his
play.

Wendel Clarke has recently been criticized for his performance
during the Detroit-Toronto series. Don defended him, by saying
that he can't play the way he should, because of the league's
new rules. "This used to be a rough and tough league... Now its
all hack and slash." Don lays the blame on Gil Stien for the
problems.

Don's opinions on fighting and stickwork are shared by Wings
GM and coach Bryan Murray. A clip from a news conference by Murray
was shown, in which Murray made statements claiming the elimination
of fighting increases stickwork. Don also read a newspaper article
in which Murray makes the following statements: "Players don't fight
because they're afraid of getting thrown out of the game as instigator.
Instead, they settle grudges by getting their sticks and slicing
each other. Is this what the fans want to see? I guarantee there
wouldn't be as many slashes if fighting were kept in the game."

Don warned league commisioner Gary Bettman to "smarten up" with
fighting in hockey. He went on to say that before, there used
to be one guy cut with a high stick in a series. Now, with no fights,
someone gets cut every period.

Rating
------
Typical anti-fighting posturing, but here Don's opinion is supported
by Murray.


Anyone claiming that 1500 "real watts" isn't possible in a mobile should
dig through their back issues of 73 (and, I think, QST) for a description
of the mobile installation of that most revered of OMs, W6AM.  As I recall,
this included a Heath 1kW (DC in) amp (what was that model number...SB-
something....  my mind is turning to the usual Friday mush...) and was run
full-out CW fairly regulary.  The car's electrical system had been modified,
including a rather seriously-heavy-duty alternator, but such an installation
HAS been done, and so IS possible.  This installation was the source of
the legendary story of W6AM sitting in the car, and paging his wife over the
department store PA systems!


[ 2 good reasons deleted.  AI]

It's even worse than that --

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I
command you, neither shall ye diminish
from it" (Deut. 4:2).
Shall we rip out every page from our
Bibles beginning from Joshua through
Revelation?


Imagine, you have been under seige for almost two months by an enemy which you
believe wants to kill you.  Suddenly, they pump tear gas into your building and
punch holes in it with tanks.  Then a fire breaks out.  Do you run outside to
be slaughtered, or stay and face your fate.

Check Ethiopia vs. Italy in WWII for some answers to that question.


Did anyone see the Montreal - Quebec game yesterday?  It was tight right down
to the last second of the third period.  In the overtime Roy and Hextall played
like they were gods.
  Ok, so Montreal won!  They deserved it after getting their first goal in
overtime waved off because the puck was hit in with a high stick.  Their second
goal in overtime was also replayed, but I could not tell if it was the Montreal
player who kicked it in.  The puck definitely was not directed in by a stick.
Anyways, Montreal is back into the series.


WHY!!! DC/Baltimore is one of the top media markets (=the only thing the NHL
seems to care about these days), they've been doing far better than the NBA
Bullets at the gate for the last five years. The team has been a perennial
contender and fan support has been good to excellent . . . Why should Pollin
move to city that's five times smaller but has as many teams in other pro
sports. I don't get it...


Either I've just fallen for this, or you guys
are _really_ paranoid!

You're actually worried about somebody stealing
your oil?

C'mon, you think a vandal'll do that?!

That's absolutely ridiculous!

Besides, how hard is it to get under the car to
change the oil?

I can say from experience on the cars that I've driven and
changed the oil on, my Mazda 323 is pretty much a pain, but
once you've done it once, you don't forget how, and it
gets easier.

I can't imagine any other cars are much worse than mine.


We're looking at various X11 clients for PC's and we're looking for some
information about the relative efficiency of different products.  Are any
notably efficient (fast)?  Are any notably inefficient?  I assume that a
Graphics Accelerator makes them significantly faster (right now I'm looking
at ico running on Xoftware/32 for Windows sitting on the Distinct TCP/IP
platform, and it's (not surprisingly) much slower than ico running on the
Sparc10's console.  What are the key ways of improving performance for
PC (presumably Windows) clients?

Also, what about async solutions?  (Yes, I appreciate that it will be
*much* slower even with V.42bis.)  I'm in the process of installing PPP
(with header compression).  How does that compare to cslip?  I've seen
a product called XRemote by NCD that promises to be pretty efficient, but
are there comparable products out there?  If we're looking for efficiency
for async, PC clients, what should we be looking at in addition to standard
PPP w/ compression and XRemote?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.  I'm still taking in all
the information in the faq, but any tips about the relative efficiency
of various product offerings would be great.  (I get the impression
that discussions about speed are largely application specific, but
that not withstanding, any comments would be appreciated.)  Thanks.

-- Rob


   Jung may have said that, but he was in no way speaking for the
Catholic Church.  The dogma of the Assumption in no way means Mary is
considered to be God or part of "the Godhead."  Therefore it implies no
such thing about the feminine in general.

   Also Jung's statement makes it sound as though the dogma was
announced "out of the blue."  This also is incorrect, as dogma is only
the formulation of what has always been part of Tradition.  This dogma
has always been believed, but was not formally defined until the
Assumption was declared as an _ex cathedra_ statement.


I got several answers, the most complete was from Errol Crary
(errolc@tv.tv.Tek.com):

                             Thanks for your help

                                   Karsten
--


I believe the interstates were origionally funded as part of a national
defense plan etc.  The  requirements were to move heavy army trucks at
70mph.

Still its amazing in Germany you can have cars traveling 155 mph and 65 mph
on the same 3 to 4 lane road.  Around Washington DC they can't keep traffic
flowing at 55.


Primarily milage.  Gas is much more expensive, so people are very
concerned about it taking a few more liters per kilometer.  This,
along with narrow old cities, also results in smaller cars with
smaller engines.  These engines usually don't have the torque to mesh
well with an automatic.  So, having engines that don't work well with
autos, and a great concern for milage, the usual Euro-car has a
manual.

(Note that not many big Benzes come with manuals.  If you've got the
money for the car, you've got the money for the gas, and the engine to
drive through the slushbox.)

As automatics become more efficient, the "bigotry" is probably
reduced.  Still, everyone knows how to drive a manual, and cars are
cheaper with one, and it saves a little expensive fuel.  So there
aren't compelling reasons to go automatic.

-dB


There are various contradictory views on the origin of the Armenians.
The name is to be found in the Darian inscriptions in the form 'Armina'
or 'Aramaniya' is to be found in the inscription on the Bistun monument.
The following references to the Armenians are to be found in the Bistun
cuneiform inscription of Dara Vishdasb (510 B.C.).

 6. On reaching Arminam 'Armeniya'.

 7. To the country town of Zozo, to Armaniya 'Armeniya'.

According to Karakashian:

As for 'Armenia', the equivalent of the 'Armin' or 'Arminik' of the Persians,
this is more recent than the word 'Ararat', and is to be found used in
the Dara inscriptions for 'Haiastan'.

Saint Martin:

The name 'Armenie' has been given since very early times by almost all
the various eastern peoples to the territory referred to by the Armenians
as 'Haiastan'. It was known to the Syrians as Armenia and to the Arabs
as Ermeniyye.

Others believe that Urartu was known in the time of the Medes as 'Harminap'
which was later modified by the Persians to 'Arminia'. 'Ar' refers to a
place, as in Ararat, Archish, Aruyr, Archar, Arshav, Arazen and Aror,
while 'men' is used to refer to spirit, thought or human being, and
therefore 'Armen' would appear to signify 'the people of that place'.

G. Alishan believes that 'according to our national vocabulary "Haik"
is the diminutive form of "Hai", and that "Hai" is the name of our
nation. Our nation is in no way connected with the word "Armen" that
foreigners apply to our people.'

It would thus appear that 'Armenia' is a place-name, that 'Armen' is
the name of the people who lived there, and that these are in no way
connected with the word 'Hai'.

Haik and Haiastan:

Armenian historians believe Haik to have been a great hero from whom
the Armenian people took the name 'Hai'. But the mere resemblance
between the words 'Haik' and 'Hai' constitutes no real proof, and,
in any case, no such theory appears before the time of Moses of
Khoren.

Haiasa:

The following studies show quite clearly that 'Hai' and 'Haiasa' were
no more than general names used by the Hittites to refer to the
region known as Armenia.

Professor Hachadurian: 'Haiasa was the general name used in Hittite
inscriptions for Upper Armenia.'

Yensen, in his 'Hittites and Armenians' tries to prove that 'Hai' is
identical with the Hittite 'Hatio', in other words that 'Hai' is a
Hittite word. Research, however, has proved this erroneous, and shown
that 'Hai' was derived from 'Hatio'.

Mortman's attempt to read the Urartu inscriptions as Armenian met with
no success. As for Greek, there is no point in even mentioning it.

The resemblance between the words 'Haiasa' and 'Haiastan' is so obvious
that we may well accept 'Haiasa' as the oldest form of 'Haiastan'.

Let us now cast a brief glance on how the words 'Hai', 'Haikazan' and
'Haiastan' entered our older works.

According to Karakashian:

'The word "Haik" is never to be found employed with reference to a
leader of the Armenian people prior to Moses of Khoren, nor is it
ever found employed in the forms "Haika" or "Haykazn".

Agahangelos and Puzant use the word as a title or a place-name (he
improved and developed Haiastan, etc.). If the word had referred
to a nation and had been derived from "Hai" or "Haik" they could
also have used the words "Haikak" and "Haykazn" in a number of
places.'

According to Professor Sayce, who deciphered a number of Hittite
inscriptions:

'In the Hittite language the suffix -ha is used to specify quality
or species. The words "Haddanas", "Haddina" were used by the
Assyrians to refer to the Hittites. With the transformation of the
"d" between the two "a" letters to "y" "Hadinasdani" was in this
way transformed to "Haiastan"'.

Professor Grechmer fully agrees with this point of view, but regards
the significance and explanation so far accorded to the terms 'Hai'
and 'Haistan' as quite unsatisfactory. He finds, however, that a
solution to this problem is brought nearer by the name 'Haiasa'
which is so frequently found in Bogazkoy from 1400 B.C. onwards.
Forrer takes 'Haiasa' as referring to Upper Armenia. In that case
it seems likely that 'Haiasa' was actually a part of Armenia. The
suffix -dan is of Anatolian origin. The real root is 'Hayasa', which
refers to the country of the 'Hayasas'.

E. Chantre writes as follows on the subject of the ethnological
and Anthropological characteristics of the Armenian people.

The Armenians in Russia may be characterized as follows: Almost
all of them are brachycephalic or leptocephalic, very dark,
above average height, an Aissores Asian group with close ties
with certain Kurdish tribes and Azerbaijan peoples.

According to J. Deniker:

From the philological point of view, the Armenian and Kurds may be
regarded as belonging to the Iranian group...The Armenians are
descended from various elements and from a very mixed race. Their
average height varies between 1.63 and 1.69 according to the region.
They are almost always short-headed, with skull measurements of
85-87. As a race they belong to the Indo-Afghan-Assyrian-Turkic
family.

Professor Rene Vernont writes as follows:

The Armenians are a mixture of Semites, Turk, Kurds and Mongols,
but some of them display Armenian features, e.g., height a little
above average, fair complexion, dark hair, dark eyes, very often
a hooked nose and a rather wide mouth.

Investigations carried out by N. Kossovitch on the links between
Armenian blood groups and their anthropological characteristics
led him to the conclusion that the Armenians did not form a
distinct race.

Serdar Argic


<
<>OW 3.0 is the same.  But, the definition of broken is relative.  Pageview
<>requires DSC compliant PostScript files, in order to stop at page breaks.
<>I don't consider that broken.  I say that any program that puts out a
<>PostScript file that isn't DSC compliant is broken.
<
<Well that may be true.  However, the man page for pageview for OW 2.0
<does not mention about DSC compliance.  In any event, the point here
<is that if you try to display some PS files using pageview you will
<find out that it's not a practical tool.

It is true that the man page for pageview does not say that the files need
to be DSC compliant.  That is the fault of the left hand not knowing what the
right hand is doing at Sun.  I was informed by a Sun employee that the pageview
program does require DSC compliant PostScript.  There was the possibility that
it was going to be changed so that if the file wasn't DSC compliant that it
would stop at each showpage.  I believe that this method would preclude being
able to go backwards and forwards through the file, i.e., you could only go
forward to the next showpage.  This isn't in OW3.0 pageview, but maybe it is
in the Solaris 2.x version of OW (OW 3.1?).

In any event, I find pageview extremely useful.  Since all of the PostScript
that I produce IS DSC compliant, I don't have any problems.


I agree! Rob Shick sucks big time.  He did the same thing last night's game
between Boston & Buffalo.


No, the thing is designed to be retrievable, in a pinch.  Indeed, this
dictated a rather odd design for the solar arrays, since they had to be
retractable as well as extendable, and may thus have indirectly contributed
to the array-flapping problems.

The retrieval problems are exactly as stated:  it would be costly, would
involve extensive downtime (and the worry of someone finding a reason not
to re-launch it), and would unnecessarily expose the telescope to a lot
of mechanical stresses and possibilities for contamination.


	In the Boston area, you can hear the Rangers on WFAN and the Devils
on WABC, the Whalers on WTIC and the Red Wings on WJR. This of course is in
addition to the Bruins who are currently on WEEI but may move to WHDH because
the fools at WEEI are owned by the Celtics and thus will show them over the
Bruins every time there is a conflict. You can also get WBAL Baltimore but
I don't think they have hockey. BTW, I once got a station from Indiana that
had Fort Wayne Comets games.


Hi everyone,
      I'm experiencing a very annoying problem with background printing
on the HP Deskwriter (Sys 7.1, Deskwriter driver 3.1, PowerBook 170).
When I print from, say, MS Word, I see the message "Spooling to disk,"
but sometimes nothing prints. Checking my memory map thanks to Now Menus,
I see that HP Backgrounder has not loaded. Restarting fixes this. It
seems to me that HP Backgrounder is quitting unexpectedly, and that its
status as "Multifinder NOT aware" allows it to do this without my being
informed by a message such as "HP Backgrounder quit unexpectedly." Have
you ever seen this problem before.
        There may or may not be a related problem. I have experienced
problems in putting my computer to sleep. Choosing "sleep" from the
Finder menu sometimes does nothing. Today on a whim I checked the memory
map, and I discovered that HP backgrounder was not loaded. Restarted
reloaded HP backgrounder, and I was able to put my machine to sleep as
usual. Just a mere coincidence or is the HP backgrounder crash preventing
my machine from going to sleep?
	Has anyone seen this problem? I'm seriously considering the purchase of
a StylewriterII because of the poor quality of the HP software.


 vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv  VVVVVVVVVV

Getting close there!


The problem is that you imagine him inside this huge wall, unable
to see reality. While he imagines the same about you. Clearly we
have a case where relativity plays a big role concerning looking
at opposite frames of reality.

Cheers,
Kent


And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it.


joe, i'm sorry you felt i was pissing on your list.  no disparagement
was intended and i would be most interested to know what i said that
made you feel that way.  i am not suggesting that your list is
superflous nor that it will not serve a need.  i just would like not
to see the boxer contingent split, but there is certainly enough net
for more than one list.
--
-- bob pasker
-- rbp@netcom.com


:
:         Hello,

:         Just one quick question:
:         My father has had a back problem for a long time and doctors
:         have diagnosed an operation is needed. Since he lives down in
:         Mexico, he wants to know if there is a hospital anywhere in
:         the United States particulary famous for this kind of surgery,
:         kind of like Houston has a reputation for excellent doctors
:         in eye surgery. Any additional info or pointers will be
:         appreciated a whole lot!...

There is one hospital that is here in New York City that is famous for its
orthopedists, namely the Hospital for Special Surgery. They are located on
the upper east side of manhattan. If you want their address and phone let
me know, i'll get them, i dont know them off hand.


Here in Australia most cars are manual (privately owned anyway).  Why?
Not sure, I think it has something to do with the fact that our car industry
in the past was more closely aligned with Europe than the US in the past.
Now it's aligned with Asia.

Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.


    Actually Judea and Samaria are proper geographical names, just like
    Asia Minor or Lake Michigan. Judea and Samaria are even used in
    an atlas published in (what used to be) USSR circa 1970 that I have at
    home. The government of the USSR was of course quite hostile towards
    Israel and would hardly engage in a pro-Israel propaganda. I would be
    willing to mail a photocopy of the relevant page to Mr. Schmidling
    with relevant words underlined to simplify his search, if he promises
    to report to the net afterwards.

Mr. Schmidling is to be congtatualted for being living exception to this
general rule. For although he is almost without peer in both the number
of lies posted and in the number of times he repeats them --- he hasn't
found many people who believe his lies (yet ?).


Astronomy & Space magazine's UK telephone newsline carries the times to
see the Russian Space Station Mir which will be visible every EVENING (some
time between 9 o'clock and midnight) from April 27 to May 7. It's about as
bright as Jupiter at its best. There are two cosmonuats on board.

For the time to watch, tel. 0891-88-19-50 (48p/min peak 36p/min all other
times, but prediction is at start of the weekly message so it only costs a
few pence).

E-mail reports of sightings would be appreciated: give lat/long and UT (a
few seconds accuracy if possible) when it passes ABOVE or BELOW any bright
star (say brighter than mag. 3), planet or Moon.

With Moon in evening sky also, note that from somewhere in U.K. Mir will
pass in front of the Moon each night! Please alert local clubs to the
telephone newsline, and general public as Mir can cause quite a stir!

-Tony Ryan, "Astronomy & Space", new International magazine, available from:
              Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland.
6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail).
ACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address).


: THe limit on space-walking is a function of suit supplies (MASS)
: and Orbiter Duration.

: In order to perform the re-boost of the HST, the OMS engines
: will be fired for a long period.  Now the shuttle is a heavy
: thing.  THe HST isn't light either.  THe amount of OMS fuel
: needed to fly both up is substantial.   a small booster
: carried up and used to boost HST on it's own will weigh significantly
: less then the OMS fuel required to Boost  both HST and SHUttle,
: for a given orbital change.

: From what i understand,  the mass margins on the HST missions are
: tight enough they can't even carry extra Suits or MMU's.

: pat

I haven't seen any specifics on the HST repair mission, but I can't see why
the mass margins are tight.  What are they carrying up?  Replacement components
(WFPC II, COSTAR, gyros, solar panels, and probably a few others), all sorts of
tools, EVA equipment, and as much OMS fuel and consumables as they can.  This
should be lighter than the original HST deployment mission, which achieved the
highest altitude for a shuttle mission to date.  And HST is now in a lower
orbit.

Seems like the limiting factors would be crew fatigue and mission complexity.


The 200CD is one of three oscillators that HP made many years ago.
(The others were the Low Frequency Oscillator and the Wide Range
Oscillator.) These are the ones with the 7" diameter chrome dial,
a Wein Bridge circuit that used pilot lights as the feedback loop,
and firebottles that produced many volts of output.

I've just acquired a pair of these venerable old beasts.
The non-working one, SN 605, (owned by Crosley Radio at one point!)
needs help. I know I can likely buy a microfiche copy of the book
from HP, but that costs.... and considering I paid a dollar for
the pair in the rain at the Dayton Hamvention;-}


There's nothing wrong with a red neck.  Why, some of us hicks even
listen to cultured music and such, can you say the same?  Aside from
that, you shouldn't try to shit on this guy by insulting where YOU
think he comes from.  Where I'm from, we milk cows, drive trucks, and
yes, even like baseball.  So screw anyone that doesn't like it.

Oh yeah, learn the difference between to and too city-boy! (see below)

	-thom
	 unnumbered wanna-be member of the Bob Knepper Fan Club (BKFC)


Bob, sex is already ALL OVER baseball!  Do you think those uniforms
can get ANY TIGHTER??

Todd Hundley's could be, I suppose; he seems to favor the
Carlton Fisk baggy-pants style.  Very unfortunate.  Todd, word to the
wise: if ya got it, flaunt it!


Lets see... what MS products don't have major bugs in them?  Oh, but
the fifth release the bugs are generally cleared up, even if their
customers must buy new "releases" from them that are little more than
bug fixes.  Anyone who buys a $2500 computer system and then runs MS
Windows on it is in desperate need of sympathy.

Oh wait! MS innovated the plastic housing on the MS mouse---didn't
they?  "Logitech Inside"

You can't even really call it secondary creativity when a company
gathers together a bunch of knock-off packages and peddles them to
neophytes.  If MS does anything, it appears someone has to do it
first.  It appears that MS is finding out that throwing money at
technological problems is by no means a guaranteed solution.

 ---------------------------------------------


Let's discuss Reno's taking full responciblity. Is everyone happy with the
outcome? Did the FBI pursue the correct course of action? was justice done?
If Reno really meant what she said she would resign! She is just grand
standing, period. What did those people do wrong in the first place? that is
what i can't figure out. sure they were crazy, no dought about it, but what did
they do wrong? someone please help me out on this.


I don't think the two main free X systems ( XS3 and XFree86 ) are part
of the FSF as such.

Does anyone know of an e-mail address for Diamond to which Penio could
forward his purchase information?

Guy


:When I was a school boy, my biology teacher told us of an incident
:in which a couple were very passionate without actually having
:sexual intercourse.  Somehow the girl became pregnent as sperm
:cells made their way to her through the clothes via persperation.
:
:Was my biology teacher misinforming us, or do such incidents actually
:occur?

Sounds to me like someone was pulling your leg.  There is only one way for
pregnancy to occur: intercourse.  These days however there is also
artificial insemination and implantation techniques, but we're speaking of
"natural" acts here.  It is possible for pregnancy to occur if semen is
deposited just outside of the vagina (i.e. coitus interruptus), but that's
about at far as you can get.  Through clothes -- no way.  Better go talk
to your biology teacher.


For sale:

Mac IIfx with the following config -->

20MB's RAM
400MB 3.5" Hard Drive
2 -1.44MB floppy drives
Extended keyboard
Mouse
Apple 8bit video card

$2,500.00 or best offer!

All you need is a monitor to complete this system.


Hi there,

I'm looking for tools that can make X programming easy.
I would like to have a tool that will enable to create X motif
GUI Interactivly. Currently I'm Working on a SGI with forms.
A package that enables to create GUI with no coding at all
(but the callbacks).
Any help will be appreciated.


Actually, the Quadra 900 and 950 both have the same SCSI controller,            (running at different speed).  They are not SCSI 2, but can support
certain SCSI commands that take advantage of faster drives.  The
I/O processors are present on both machines.  The Q950 runs its
I/O bus at 25MHz, while the 900's I/O bus is 16MHz.

The Quadra 950 supports 16bit color on all monitor sizes, as well
as 24bit up to 832 x 624 resolution.  It also supports 1024 x768
resolution.  The 900 supports supports 8bit at 1152 x 870, and
does not support 1024 x 768 at all.

VRAM on the 950 is 80ns or faster, and 100ns or faster on the 900.


Bzzt. Thank you for playing.

You're confusing the puritans/pilgrims with the founding fathers.
Difference of ~150 years and a much different culture...


I have been looking over the postings about the Clipper Chip and noticed
an interesting omission from the discussion.

You all mention that the algorithm is classified and have expressed
concerns and ideas of how to figure out the algorithm using software.

The question that I have is why cant someone take one of these chips
and reverse engineer it? I mean, take the thing to a chip testing/
analysis facility, one with a decent electron microscope. Just pry
off the top of the chip and start scanning it with the electron
microcope and figure out the circuitry. I remembered a place that I use
to work for had one of these facilities that they used to analyze chips
that we accidently blew out while running tests. They could actually find
the area that was fried and show us where in the circuit it was.

I am sure that many companies and universities must have these facilities
and that the potential is there, especially at a university where the
security at such a facility is looser, for someone to take a clipper
apart and analyze it?

What can the government do to prevent this? Start taking away all
microchip analysis facilities and electron microscopes??


How wrong you will be.  I participated in the last National March on
Washington (MOW) for LesGayBi rights (Oct 11, 1987) - with a turnout of
about 750,000 people - and we didn't have alot pissing us off at the time.
The big issue was the AIDS crisis, but we weren't being slapped around
quite as bad as we are now.  This time its AIDS, and Equal Rights,  and
the Military Squabble.  And this MOW has been in the planning for YEARS
whereas the last one was pulled together in a relatively short time.  The
last MOW was the largest ever on D.C. and you can bet we are going to
exceed that by a long shot.  I truly believe we will exceed the 1.0
million goal the MOW committee has always had set for this event.


	I heard that there is a VESA driver for the XGA-2 card available on
compuserve. I just got this card, and I am wondering if this driver is
available on a FTP site anywhere. My news service has beeen erratic lately so
please E-Mail me at:
				walsh@stolaf.edu
	Thanks in advance.


I have found that you should observe the following with almost all new
equipment :

Check for warrany tape.  If none, carefully open unit.

Inspect for loose wires, jumpers, screws, and other trash.

Clean up these manufacturing mistakes.

*Now* power up the unit and check it out.

I can't think of how many things I've bought that weren't okay right out of
the box due to sloppy QC.

- Jonathan

PS : This goes for any manufacturer.  I'm not picking on anyone.

--
 Internet: musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu      Fidonet: Jonathan Deitch@1:133/411.7
           jdeitch@gisatl.fidonet.org   Bellnet: 1 - (404) - 261 - 3665         -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta 1996 !! | Play Pinball !! | Don't Panic ! | "I hate it when I can't
--------------------------------------------------| trust my own technology!"
"Thrills!  Chills!  Magic!  Prizes!" -- Hurricane |    -- Geordi LaForge


  Due to a discussion on this group some time ago, the theists would
  more likely take an Asimov quote out of context and paint him as
  the biggest Bible thumpin', God fearin', atheist hatin' christian
  you ever laid eyes on.  Right up there with Einstein.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM

They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,
and sank Manhattan out at sea.


Does anyone have any information on the Polaroid Palette system. It appears to
be a gadget for transfering graphics images to film. Does anyone have any detail
about it like the maximum supported resolution or types of video input????

What did Polaroid market them as?????

Fletch


Yes, but

	(a) we were talking about peak level, not career averages
and
	(b) Clemente was the best fielding RF of all time, as far
	    as anyone can tell

I did a quick scan last night, looking for players with a peak comparable
to or better than Winfield.  In my quick-n-dirty subjective judgement, you
could make good cases for Ruth, Aaron, Ott, Robinson, Clemente, Kaline,
Maris, Klein, Jackson, Waner, and probably a few others.  This is not a
knock on Winfield, but a comment on his consistency: all of those other
players had awesome stretches and very good stretches, while Winfield has
been more uniformly excellent.  Hall of Fame?  Absolutely.  Top-10 peak?
I'm not so sure.  Top 10 total career value?  Yes, almost certainly.


Alan "All in all, it's just another" Sepinwall writes...

	I agree.  However, I have to object.  Growing up in the early
1980's and playing 2 years of Mario Mendoza-esque Little League, I was
told that since my hitting, well, sucked, I would do best to either
"Walk, or take one in the face for the team".  I did both.  And, my
Yankee fan father would say, "Bat like Oscar Gamble".  So I did.  And my
career OBP was about .550.
	Not only was Oscar a fun guy to watch, but he had some pretty
cool baseball cards and helped me become one of the best little league
players in history.


What is the real story here? Can I hook up any PC SVGA Montitor to the
Centris internal video? Do I need to make my own cable if it doesn't not
come with one? Has apple released a Tech note with the pinouts for doing
such? The reasoj I ask is that it seems the prices for SVGA are lower than
that of their mac counterparts...
--mike


Has anyone ever heard of the X Professional Organization?  Is anyone a member?
Is the membership worth the $100 or so that they charge?


Not to change the subject, but how was Fr. Gobbi allowed at Notre Dame?  Notre
Dame is an anti Catholic University.  Was this allowed to show that the
crackpots at Notre Dame believe in freedom of speech?  I am glad that they did
allow him to speak.


Like non-Sudafed cold medicines?  1/2 :-)


						^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
		    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	If JD Power and Associates did the survey, I would like an
	anonymous ftp site to pick it up at.  Only a sucker believes
	an MS released survey results about an MS product.  Ok--assume
	that the results of the survey, whatever they are, are 100%
	honest.  If the results indicated extreme dissatisfaction with
	the product, is MS going to tell us to stop buying MS-DOS 6.0
	because it sux? :-)  Sure....

	Well, these "statistics" are to shut people up and add some
	microscopic weight to MS' arguments.  As I just said, you have
	seen what automakers do.  Who is going to believe Chrysler if
	they tell us, "In a 'random' Chrysler-conducted survey..."
	My theory about certain people is that they are convinced that
	if a point is maintained long enough, it is true.  After all,
	what is the focus of this company?  Information.  Money and
	information.  Technology is, for some, an expedient toward
	these ends.  Why did Bill Gates drop out of college?
	Was it because he couldn't afford it at the time?  Was it
	because (as the WSJ says) he couldn't wait to use what he
	knew to go out and make money?  Bill Gate's answer to this
	question would be highly interesting.  I await it.
	I can't stomach Bill declaring himself a visionary and
	using every available opportunity to build up the cult
	around himself and then having MS sell DOS and Windoze
	as their main stays.

 ---------------------------------------------


I'm most of the way through adding a grammar for parsing the #if expressions.
I don't know when I'll be able to get back to it; you're welcome to what I
have so far. I haven't looked at other versions of makedepend, which may solve
the problem more elegantly.


check prep.ai.mit.edu.  It's called fax-3.2.1.tar.Z or something to
that effect and is the software for netfax. Be forewarned that it
requires (at the moment) a fairly costly $450 fax modem with certain
capabilities to use it.


I am quite near sighted.

I've recently received laser treatment for both eyes to seal
holes in the retinas to help prevent retinal detachment. In my
left eye a small detachment had begun already and apparently the
laser was used to "weld" this back in place as well.

My right eye seems fine. In my left eye I was seeing occasional
flashes of bright light prior to the treatment. Since the
treatment (two weeks) these flashes are now occuring more often
- several each hour.

The opthamologist explained the flashes are caused because the
vitreous body has attached to the retina and is pulling on it. He
says this is not treatable and he hopes it may go away on its own
accord - if it tugs enough I may well face retinal detachment.

I am seeking (via sci.med) additional info on retinal detachments.
The Dr. did not wish to spend much time with me in explanations
so I appreciate any further details anyone can provide. Of most
interest to me:

If my retina does detach what should be my immediate course
of action?

If conventional surgery is need to repair the detachment what is
the procedure like and what kind of vision can I expect
afterwards.

Do the symptoms (fairly frequent flashes) imply that detachment
maybe near at hand or is this not necessarily cause for alarm.

Many thanks

Bill


Don't let this confuse anybody.  The Winnipeg Jets have never won the
Stanley Cup (or even come that close).  These Stanley Cup championships
go back a LONG way to about the turn of the century.  The Winnipeg
Victorias won one or more of these Cups- the Jets didn't win any of
them.

Can you think of anything more irrelevant to argue about a playoff
series going on today than who won more Stanley Cups around the turn
of the century??

Lets face facts.  The Canucks are leading the series 3-1.  The Canucks
dominated the Jets in their season series.  The Canucks did better in
the regular season than Winnipeg.  Who is the better team?  I think
that the facts show that Vancouver is better than Winnipeg.


Dorothy Denning, _Cryptography and Data Security_, 1982, Addison Wesley.
Page 8, under the heading "Cryptosystems must satisfy three general
requirements.  The other two are efficiency and ease of use.


Armenians have been doing just that for a long, long time.

Source: "Hagop Hagopian said to have been part of 1972 Terror Attack at
Munich Olympic Games," The Armenian Reporter, February 7, 1985, p. 1.

"Le Matin, the influential Paris daily, based on unidentified sources,
claimed last week that Hagop Hagopian, the founder and leader of one
faction of the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA),
was among the Arab terrorists who staged an attack on the living quarters
of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympic Games...

Le Matin added that up to 1982, Hagopian operated out of Beirut, Lebanon,
but escaped from the country when Israeli forces entered the city. It was
about this time that a statement issued by ASALA claimed that Mr. Hagopian
was dead of wounds suffered during a bombing by the Israeli Air Force,
although it is generally believed that the mysterious leader is alive and
well and presently is residing alternately in Damascus, Syria, and
Athens, Greece. The paper also noted that the socialist government of
Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou and his P.A.S.O.K. party accepted the
Armenian underground leader with "open arms" and still providing him
with assistance simply because of Greece's traditional enmity with Turkey.

Le Matin further adds that ASALA derives only a small portion of its
expenditures from wealthy Armenians who support the cause, with the rest
coming either from other sources or from proceeds of an involvement in
drug trafficking."

Serdar Argic


Yes the govt handled it in the Rambo Hollywood type style
with extreeme Machismo. Perhaps thats not the way to handle
it.

It is a completely different thing to start asserting as many
have done that the government is primarily to blame. The comparisons
with the NAZIs in particular are purely gratuitous.

Since you have provided a constructive opinion on the issue your
post desreves to be taken seriously. Peter Nelson also made some
very good points about how a low key approach might have been
more effective.

The point is though that you learn through mistakes. The govt
played the wrong card and lost. Thats not a big deal. They
had had four guys murdered at the begining and maybee they
just were not prepared for wuite this situation. Who could be?

If the same thing were to happen all over again we might perhaps
be able to castigate the Govt if they used the same tactics and failed
in the same way. As it is I can't say that I would not have made the
same mistake. Maybee I wouldn't because I don't as a rule go in
for a confrontational situation if I can avoid it. Maybee I would
because with all those press about its very difficult not to try
the macho stuff.

The FBI had information from within the compound we had no access
to. They may have calculated that the B-D followers resolve was
cracking based on their listening devices within the compound. They
knew that Koresh had chickened out of one suicide attempt. This
may have been the reason why they considered that fear might have
been a weapon for breaking his resolve. Again in Panama they had used
the heavy rock music to great effect during Bush's invasion. Funny that
few of the Koresh supporters and appologists complain much about the
death of several thousand Pananmanian civilians while the US govt attempted
to arrest their former ally.

Koresh negated his civil rights the minute his followers fired
on the police helicopter. No matter whether the warrant was or
was not technically valid the guys who were carrying it out
thought that it was. Thus the assault on them was completely
inexcusable no matter what rationalisation people might wish to
employ.

Of course we have to consider the guns issue. That is the whole
core of the question. Everything else is a diversion.


	Lots of house fires give off black sooty smoke.  And as far as
	the speed of the fire the winds were gusting to 30mph at least
	that day.  I guess you're forgetting the way Oakland and Berkeley
	looked back in 91.  Did those folks use accelerants?

						smg