:                                                               Consequently,
: this verse indicates that she was without sin.  Also, as was observed at
: the very top of this post, Mary had to be free from sin in order to be the
: mother of Jesus, who was definitely without sin.

If the mother of Jesus had to be without sin in order to give
birth to God, then why didn't Mary's mother have to be without
sin in order to give birth to the perfect vessel for Jesus?  For
that matter, why didn't Mary's grandmother have to be without sin
either?  Seems to me that with all the original sin flowing
through each person, the need for the last one (Mary) to have
none puts God in a box, where we say that He couldn't have
incarnated Himself through a normal human being.

My God is an all powerful God, Who can do whatever suits His
purpose.  This includes creating a solar system and planet earth
with the appearance of great age; providing a path through the
Red Sea for the children of Israel that does not depend on the
existence of a ridge of high ground and a wind blowing at the
right speed and direction; and the birth of Himself from a normal
sinful person without being tainted by her original sin.

I see far too much focus on the "objects" of religion and not
nearly enough on the personal relationship that is available to
all believers with the Author of our existence, without the
necessity of having this relationship channeled through conduits
to God in the form of Mary, Apostles and a Pope.

: Note that the idea of Mary being conceived without Original Sin, i.e. the
: Immaculate Conception, is distinct from the idea of Mary not having sinned
: during her lifetime, which is a separate doctrine and, I believe, also
: held by the Catholic Church.

If Mary was born without original sin, and didn't sin during her
lifetime, how is she any different from Jesus?  This means the
world has had two perfect humans:  one died to take away the sins
of the world;  the other gave birth to Him?  I would certainly
want to see some scriptural support for this before I would start
praying to anyone other than God.  Everything I have ever read
from the bible teaches me that Jesus was and is the only sinless
Lamb of God, not His mother, grandmother........

: Hope this is useful to you.

Very useful in helping me understand some of the RC beliefs.
Thank you.


Okay, I see smilies, so this isn't supposed to be a serious post.
On the other hand, I would suppose it does has some motivation behind
it. Apparently the idea is to poke fun at religion, but there is
presumably some sort of reasoning behind it. As an argument, this
statement is worthless. Presuming the Qur'an is a perfect religious
text (whatever that might be) there is still plenty of room for
disagreement about its implications for issues far from essentials.

I've already responded to the question of how a judgment might be made
between two people who in fact _do_ disagree about Islam, which doesn't
presume anything about the Qur'an other than its having sufficient
clarity for all important disputes about the basic principles of
Islam. This hardly constitutes a claim that no two people could have
disagreements about _all_ issues relevant to Islam.


: ==============================================================================
: Could someone please tell me the Best FTP'able viewer available for MSDOS
: I am running a 486 33mhz with SVGA monitor.
: I need to look at gifs mainly and it would be advantageous if it ran
: under windows...........thanks

FTP to wuarchive.wustl.edu,
change into mirrors/msdos/graphics
get "grfwk61t.zip"
This is the DOS version of Graphic Workshop.  There is a Windows version which
you could probably find in the mirrors/msdos/windows3 directory but I don't
know what the file name is.

--


As of today's USA Today (4/23) John Wetteland should come off of the DL
tonight and possibly pitch in the series this weekend (I forget who they play.)
Derek Lilliquist is probably going to be the main closer, but it will be kind
of a bullpen by committee also.


It's called 'contractual obligations' with Major League Baseball.
I would've liked to see the OT of the Isles-Caps game, but I understand
where ESPN is coming from. ESPN is committed to a single telecast a night
and everything after that is a bonus.


Is that the number of "left" legs, or both left and right?


Please see the post I made yesterday (May 10) which fixes the problem.
This was posted to comp.windows.x.apps.


   From: Center for Policy Research <cpr>
   Subject: Zionism - racism

   Diaspora 'a cancer'
   ------------------- by Julian Kossoff and Lindsay Schusman in:
   Jewish Chronicle, London, 22. Dec. 1989

   Leading Israeli author and cultural commentator, A.B. Yehoshua,
   launched a ferocious attack on diaspora Jewry at a Zionist Youth
   Council meeting in North London, last week.

   The diaspora, he claimed, "was the cancer connected to the main
   tissue of the Jewish people". He was scathing about its failure to
   act before the Holocaust.

   [ deleted for bravity ]

   Jewish values in Israel embraced every aspect of daily life,
   unlike in the diaspora, where Jews had no responsibility for the
   country they lived in, he said.

   He warned that modern Hebrew, a unifying force for the Jewish
   people, would have to struggle for its future, especially in
   literary circles. It faced fierce competition from the English
   language.

   -------------------------------------------------------------------------

So?

--Amos


After looking at the scaling code I realized the follwing:

  1) My problem with the resolution 100x100 foints is due to an installation
     problem.

  2) That the X server or font server will rescale the best font it can find
     to meet your requirements.

     This means that if you server return a response like the following

     -adobe-helvetica-medium-o-normal--0-0-75-75-p-0-iso8859-1

     You can ask for the follwogin:

        -adobe-helvetica-medium-o-normal--14-100-90-90-p-0-iso8859-1

     and it will generate it for you.  You should try to always use
     known pixel sizes.


I disagree with what to tout, although I agree that the space program is
inherently a good thing.  Most people today only care about "what will it
cost me?" and "what's in it for me?" and could care less about whether
something is simply worthwhile in and of itself.  Our society has become
increasingly geared toward the short-term (which you could read as NOW!).
They couldn't care less about next week, much less next century.  They want
something to show for the expenditure and they want it *now*.

I think we *should* tell them about the things that they are using now that
are spinoffs of the space program.  That is the only way you can *prove*
its worth to *them* - and they vote and pay taxes too.  The continued
existence of the space program relies upon that money.

just my $.02

BTW: don't forget Velcro...


Oops, forgot the phone number.  It's 1-800-377-8287.


Who said it was dead. It seems to be alive and well here on the net.


This is too often true.  Many people try to place this as a "higher"
sin.  However...

A big part of the problem is that many of the homosexuals and people
advocating acceptance of homosexuality in churches do not consider
(active) homosexuality a sin.  I don't often see the attitude of
"forgive me and I will try to change".  Instead I see "there's nothing
wrong with my life and I can be a good Christian, so it must be you who
have an illness because you don't accept me".  Christians can and will
accept homosexuals, just as they will accept *any* sinner.

Sure, it may be natural to some people to be homosexual - but it
is also perfectly natural for everyone to sin!  I was born with
a desire to sin, but I work to prevent myself from sinning.  It's
much less common now, but I *still* have urges to lash out in
anger.  There also may not be a sudden disappearance of sinful
desires (or ever!), so it is sad to see people leave the church
when they are discouraged that they are still homosexual after
several years.


OK, many people emailed me asking for information on Congruent Corporation's
product which allows X/Motif unix applications to function on Windows NT.
Today I was sent a telephone number by a kind person by the name of Sam (I'd
give better attribution, but the mail is in a different application on VMS :-()

The number to call in New York City is (212)431-5100

The email address is info@congruent.com

The product is NTNIX.

Other details I do not know.

They said they'd send me email info, but as yet it has not arrived. More
as I get it. Cheers Folks!
--
snail@lsl.co.uk


Hi, there!
I have a MAC LC and consider buying CD300. I've been told,
however, that:
1. The double speed of CD300 is achievable only on machines
   with SCSI-2.
2. The double speed is a prerequisite for PhotoCD multisession
   capability, which I need.
3. Which means I seem to gain nothing compared with, say CD150.

Any comments?
Thanx.


     Good. Another liberal converted by Waco!  If Dave had had something
     realistic, there would have been none of this "Bradley" vehicle
     crap.


As I recall from reading posts here a while back, Rovax (Rovacs?) died
because it was larger and noisier than the competing cheap R12 systems
of it day.  Probably a case of bad timing.  I think the system would
have a better chance today now that R12 systems are on death row, but
investors may be hard to come by a second time.


 > When Elizabeth greeted Mary with the words: "Blessed art thou
 > among women" (Luke 1:42), it appears that this places Mary
 > beyond the sanctification of normal humanity.

But Deborah says (Judges 5:24):

 > Blessed among women shall be Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite,
 > Blessed above all women in the tents.

It can doubtless be taken that Jael's slaying of Sisera was a type
of Mary's victory over sin. But even if we take Deborah's words as
applying prophetically or symbolically to Mary, they must still be
applicable literally to Jael.  We may well take them to mean that
God used her as a part of His plan for the deliverance of His
people, and that she has this in common with Mary.  But we have no
reason to suppose that they mean that she was sinless, and thus no
reason to take the like expression applied to Mary as proof that she
was sinless.


ANP is secreted by the atria in response to increases in fluid volume
and acts to facilitate sodium and water excretion from the kidneys.
Can someone tell me the molecular mechanism by which this is done?

Please email your response

Thanks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Po'g Mo Thon


Ithaca technical support can be reached at:

     tech_support@ithaca.com

or by phone at:

     510-523-5900


Does anybody share my opinion that in big-city traffic a bike can be so
low-powered that for example it cant accelerate out of trouble when
necessary..the "screwed-down" versions of bikes sold on the German
market with the different classes of liscence seems to make a lot of
middle aged men putt putt around on 25-40Km/Hr maschines that are
constantle getting in the way of "real" traffic!

Does anybody else have opinions on this topic!?

snuffy

--


I originally posted a complaint about how noisy my PC was. I got several
useful suggestions, but 1 was the most seductive: run your PC in silence by
removing the fan altogether!

Two variables:
1) I always run my PC without the cover, and
2) I'd be willing to attach a CPU cooler if that would make a difference.

Should I try to run my PC without a fan? I know it sounds like utter folly so
I'm asking - has anyone done this succesfully? Or tragically? You're answer
may save my PC... Thanks.


The *fastest* way is to use an X server with shared memory extension. It uses
shared memory if it is a local X server (hence images don't have to be duplicated),
and defaults to the regular image routines if either the shared mem extension
is not available, or if it's  not the localhost.


I heard a friend who just return from NAB from Las Vegas confirm
that RealSoft will be releasing a Windows version of REAL-3D 2.0
this summer.  He was told that the rendering speed on the DX50 isn't
as fast as A4000.  However, he was also told that they are switching
from Microsoft C++ to Watcom to gain more speed.  For people who is
looking for a powerful 3D animation software for PC.  The wait
shouldn't be too long.  Real 3D 2.0 is absolutely the most powerful and
flexible 3D package out there that sells for less than $1000.


Dear fellow Christians,

	I had a dinner last night with a bible study group which
I am in. We had a discussion about the difference between Christianity
and Islam. And I was shocked to hear that our bible study teacher
said that Mohammad was indeed a prophet but of Satan. I said, "What??"
I did not believe that, because I have some moslem friends who are
so kind and  nice, even sometimes I feel I wish I could be like them
(in my point of view, they don't sin as much as I do). How come if they
were under Satan, they could have such personalities.

To tell you the truth, I don't know much about Islam.
But I know that they believe in God, they believe in the day of
judgement.

	Now I'm  asking you what your opinions about Islam and
its teaching.

IMPORTANT : I do not want to discuss whether they are saved or not.
	    I do not want to discuss about politic related to Islam.

P.S: I post this in bit.listserv.christia, soc.religion.christian,
     and bit.listserv.catholic.

In Christ, our Lord,                           Smile.........
					       Jesus loves you.......
	Tabut Torsina
	TORSINA@ENUXHB.EAS.ASU.EDU

[Let me start by saying that this is not the right newsgroup for a
discussion of Islam, since there's a group for that.  But I suspect
the point your teacher was making was not specifically about Islam.
Indeed it's going to be impossible to see what he was getting at
within your groundrules, since the question of whether non-Christians
are saved is at the heart of it.

The classic Christian view, which I think most people believed until
the last century or so, was that Christianity (and of course Judaism)
was the only religion founded by God, and that all other religions
worshipped false gods, and came from Satan.  This is more or less a
corollary of another traditional view that no one but Christians (and
possibly Jews) will be saved.  This need not mean that there's no
truth in any other religion, nor that all of their members are
intentionally Satanic.  After all, in order to be an effective snare,
Satanic alternatives would have to be attractive.  Thus they might
contain all kinds of truth, wisdom and spiritual insights.  They would
be missing only one thing -- knowledge of salvation through Christ.
If this is the background of your teacher's remarks -- and I suspect
it is -- that means that a discussion of Islam is not necessarily
relevant.  The point is not that there's anything intrinsically wrong
with it.  It may teach a fine code of behavior, and its practitioners
may all be wonderful people.  But if salvation requires being a
follower of Christ, it could still be a Satanic invention.

This is a reasonable deduction from the classic Protestant position.
Christianity says that salvation isn't a matter of being kind and
nice.  Those are good things, and we should encourage them.  But no
one is able to do them enough to be saved.  Salvation requires Christ.
(Please forgive me for doing this in Protestant terms.  There's a
Catholic equivalent to this that has similar implications, but in
different terms.)  A religion may be quite attractive in all visible
ways.  But if it doesn't have Christ, it's like a diet that consists
of food that looks wonderful, tastes great, but is missing some
essential food element so that you end up dying.

Let me be clear that I am not specifically advocating this position.
What I'm trying to do is (as usual) to clarify issues.  Indeed it is
now relatively uncommon for Christians to believe that all other
religions are Satanic.  Most Christians regard such beliefs as an
unfortunate vestige of the past.  This is part of a general move
within Christianity in the last century or so to a non-judgemental
God.  Christians now find it hard to believe that God would allow
anybody other than a really rotten person to end up in hell, and they
find it hard to envision that real malignant spiritual forces are at
work in the world doing things like creating superficially attractive
alternatives to Christianity.  Whether there is actually a sound basis
for the shift is a decision that people need to make for themselves.


Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they
really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
"underscore 4")?


:
: Once again, someone else with a Gateway Monitor problem, anyone who can
: help, please do, it would be much apprieciated.  Thanks in advance.
:
: Ok, I have a Local Bus 486/66 machine, with the Crystal Scan 15inch
: monitor.  I have 1 meg of loca memory on the ATI ultra pro, w/ the
: mach32 driver (the newest release).
:
: My problem is in Windows when I use the 1024 mode. I get shadows down
: the sides of the screens, and very blurry type in the corners.  The
: types on the screen are all out of focus. I've gotten replacement video
: cards, and a replacement monitor.  None of that has helped though.
: Could someone pleae help me with this very frustruating problem.

I have the 1 meg card with the Crystal Scan 15 inch also.  I see very
faint shadows on the left side of the screen only in 1024 x 768 mode,
but not enough to really bother me.  The characters on the screen
are clear until I turn on the Crystal Fonts, then they become blurry.

I have a friend who has 2 meg on the video card who has the same shadows,
but says the Crystal Fonts are, well, crystal clear.

We are both using build 59 of the mach32 drivers. Neither of us has a monitor
extension cable.  I tried the build55 driver and found no difference.


Does X11R5 support the graphics accelerator board
in the Sun 386i????

Thanks in advance.


There is a great book out called "They Also Served" which is about the
ballplayers during WWII.  There is some info on Berg in there.  It also has
info on Pete Gray (one armed outfielder) and other players of the era.  Because
of the draft many players during the war were those who were exempt from the
draft for medical reasons.  There are some very interesting stories in the
book. It is very well written and I would suggest reading it to anyone with an
interest in baseball.

Rob Koffler


Y'all got the first two reversed.


Which Western states have laws that charge sales tax on the difference between
a new car's price and the trade-in's value?  I know California charges you on
the full value of the new vehicle regardless of trade-in.

If you are a California resident, is it legal to buy a car in a state other than
California without also paying California sales tax?  How does California
enforce any law that requires you to also pay California sales tax (on top of
the out-of-state tax)?


I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
have v engines.

V4 - I don't know of any.
V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
V8 - Don't know of any.
V12 - Jaguar XJS

 Please add to the list.


   "Hate the sin but love the sinner"...I've heard that quite a bit recently,
   ....  My question is whether that statement is consistent with Christianity.
   I would think not.

   Hate begets more hate, never love. ....

   In the summary of the law, Christ commands us to love God and to love our
   neighbors. He doesn't say anything about hate. In fact, if anything, he
   commands us to save our criticisms for ourselves. ....

   - Scott

I too dislike the phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner".  Maybe the
definite article is also part of the problem, since it seems to give
us license to fixate on our brother's peculiar pecadillo which we have
managed to escape by a common grace of heredity, economic situation, or
culture.  Our outrage at evil is too often just a cheap shot.

That said, I don't think Scott has adequately explored the flip side
of this coin, namely the love of righteousness.  In the Beatitudes,
Jesus blessed those who hungered and thirsted for righteousness.  In
the New Testament, it is never enough just to behave well, one should
always actively desire and work for the cause of good.  In that sense,
it should be impossible to remain dispassionate about evil and its
victims, even when these are its accomplices as well.

Maybe "mourn sin, love sinners" catches the idea slightly better than
"hate", but only slightly, since grief usually implies a passive
powerless position.  A balanced Christian response needs grief, love,
and carefully measured, constructive anger.  Jesus has all three.  The
European pietists during WWII whose response to Nazi atrocities was
devoid of anger do not fare well as role models, however much love or
grief they exemplified.

My sister is an actress in New York and a Christian.  A few years
back, Jack, her long-time professional friend and benefactor, died of
AIDS, impoverished by medical bills, estranged from his family, and
abandoned by most of his surviving friends.  Only my sister and
brother-in-law were there with him at the very end.  In her grief over
Jack's death, my sister found quite a few targets for anger: callous
bureaucracies, the rigid self-protective moralism of Jack's family,
the inertia in Christians' response to AIDS, and, yes, even Jack's own
lapse in morality that eventually cost him his life.  Jack himself
shared that last anger.  Brought up with strong Christian values, he
was contrite over his brief dalliance with promiscuous sex long before
his AIDS appeared.  (I imply no moral judgement here about Jack's
innate sexual orientation, n.b.)

Maybe the hardest job is making our anger constructive.


I have a Jap. import of One on CD single.
It contains:
One
Breadfan
For Whom the Bell Tolls (live)
Sanitarium (live)
One (demo)


>government maintaining a secret of some kind.


No firearms were ever ever shot at the National Guard at Kent State.

At the time of the shooting, no rocks were being thrown at all.  The squad was
slowly proceeding up a knoll, away from the body of students.  Some students
were taunting them, and photographs of the incident show at most one or two
students who were following and taunting.

The series of photographs show the squad slowly proceeding up the hill, while
occasionally their NCO, .45 in hand turned back to look at where they came from.
All at once, as if on command, the entire squad turned and fired their M1
Garands, firing 30.06 rounds into the crowd (the NCO can be shown with this
45 at full recoil).  At least two of the students shot had nothing to do with
the taunters... they were only passing through, and were not participants in
the confrontation.

There is some dispute whether the Guard was even legally on Campus... apparently
they had not been invited onto the state school by the president, who had
conveniently flown the coop, so as not to be around.  The governor of Ohio,
James Rhodes, had just embarked on a senate campaign, and wanted it to be known
that he was tough on peaceniks, so had ordered the guard in.

The matter was quickly covered up.  Some years later, wounded survivors launched
a civil lawsuit against those responsible... a settlement was made, and under the
terms, the plaintiffs could not discuss much, and guilty individuals were not
identified (in fact, those shooters in the squad have been identified).


Hi Javier, (how are things at Corp, my old stomping ground was c-level?)
Vibration when applying the brakes can be caused, on disc brakes at least,
by warped rotors. When the brakes are applied, there results uneven pressure
on the rotor.  Turning the rotors by a brake shop will remedy this problem
as long as there is enough rotor width left for turning (i.e. within spec).
There could be some possible front end suspension problem but a brake shop
should be able to confirm warped rotors by a visual inspection which is free.


Whatever you do, don't FTP to the sites listed in my sig...

You won't like what you find...really.  I beg you NOT to GO there!
PLEASE!

...e


Would someone please leave me the full address for Canon in Canada.
thank you.

--- Via UCI v1.21 (C-Net Amiga)


And you can bet that I wouldn't be the only one not belonging to the
moderated group if it was moderated by an anally-retentive little
dullard like yourself.

I hardly need you to presume to lecture me on how to communicate my points
of view.  This "posting" that you have made is the second on the subject of
the NHL letter and you have yet to communicate your opinion on the matter.
Instead you content yourself with flaming me.

Result:
Moronic little busy bodies like yourself take advantage of a perceived
opportunity to post rules for others to live by.

Well if using it "against" me means you are going to post something of
significance then by all means go ahead.  I insist.  Otherwise why don't
you just go back to sleep or do whatever it is that you do when you are
all by yourself...

--


Just wanted to let all the people who e-mailed me about
a possible Cardinals mailing list that I wasn't able to
get the OK to host the list here so someone else will
have to do it. :-(

Many thanks to Bob Netherton for his helpful info.


You may want to put Hubble back in the payload bay for a reboost,
and you don't want to clip off the panels each time.

For the Gamma-Ray Observatory, one of the design requirements was that
there be no stored-energy mecahnisms (springs, explosive squibs, gas shocks,
etc.) used for deployment.  This was partially so that everything could
be reeled back in to put it back in the payload bay, and partially for
safety considerations.  (I've heard that the wings on a cruise missile
would cut you in half if you were standing in their swath when they opened.)

Back when the shuttle would be going up every other day with a cost to
orbit of $3.95 per pound :-), everybody designed things for easy servicing.


Sounds like you are getting a pretty fair price (assuming it is in
nice condition)


You don't need any counterfeit athiest's myth to make religion
appear absurd.  You need only read any of friendly Christian
Bill Conner's posts.


Wow, hang on a second.  The libertarian party stands for personal freedom,
lassez-faire economics and minimal government.  Whoever is describing the
self as a Libertarian (maybe you were refering to the posters who call
themselves civil libertarians) are not talking at all about Libertarian
philosophy.


I'm using DRDOS 6.0 with SuperStor for nearly 2 years now, and I'm wondering, if
MSDOS 6.0 could keep up with it at last. Is there anybody who tried out both?
What about this Double-Disk ? (had lots of problems with SStor too.)
How much memory do you get? (I've got 616K with EMM and SStor)
What about the on-line help (Really great in DRDOS)
Any help appreciated.


Sure!  -------->

OH!  Sorry.  This is not rec.humor!

Try cica in pub/pc/win3.  Get INDEX to see where it is.


If I remember rightly, there is a pulsating set of tones piped thru the CATV
systems (somewheres near the FM broadcast band).  And that the cable company
trucks listen for this as they roam around town.  If you can hear it over
the air and not cable....


I'd be interested in a copy of this code if you run across it.
(Mail to the author bounced)
 > / hpldsla:comp.graphics / ricky@vnet.ibm.com (Rick Turner) / 12:53 am  May 13,
 1993 /
 > I fooled around with this problem a few years ago, and implemented a
 > simple method that ran on a PC.
 > was very simple - about 40 or 50 lines of code.
 . . .
 > Somewhere I still have it
 > and could dig it out if there was interest.
 >
 > Rick


Hello:

Do you know about a mouse odometer for windows?  I have seen one for the
Mac.  It is quite fun.  It records the distance, in miles, that the
travels during use.

Thanks in advance:
Steve


Well, here is something I wrote some time ago in response to a
similar question.  I hope it helps:

[Begin repeat of previous post]

As for the scripture mentioned I agree that it does seem to be a
problem, not only for eternal marriage but marriage in general.
Luke's version has Jesus saying that the children of this world
marry and are given in marriage but not those who will attain
the kingdom of heaven.  It almost sounds like marriage disqualifies
one for salvation.  (Matthew and Mark both omit this statement.)   I
think the accounts are not as clear as they might be.  Let's have a
look at the incident and see if we can come up with some reasonable
ideas of what it means.  The scriptures involved are Mat 22:23-30,
Mark 12:18-25, and Luke 20:27-36.

What happened was that the Sadducees, who did not believe in the
resurrection, thought they could trap Jesus.  They made reference to
the "Leverite" marriage which required the brother of a man who died
without children to take the widow to wife and raise up children.
The children would be considered children of the deceased, just as
though the woman's first husband had fathered them.  It seems
obvious from this that the woman was still considered in a way to be
the wife of her first husband.  However, the Sadducees concocted a
scene in which 6 brothers of the deceased each in his turn failed to
father children by the widow.  They seem to imply that the Leverite
marriage was equal to the first for they ask, "Whose wife shall she
be in the resurrection?"  At this point it seems obvious that if she
is anybody's wife, it is the first husband.  After all, had she
borne children they would have been credited to him regardless of
which brother was the biological father.  It is possible Jesus was
refering to this when he says, "Ye do err, not knowing the
scriptures or the power of God." (Mat 22:29, compare Mark 12:24,
phrase not in Luke's account).

Anyway, the Sadducees ask, "Whose wife will she be in the
resurrection, seeing that all 7 had her?"  Jesus answer is that,
"In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in
marriage..." (Mat 22:30) "When they rise from the dead they neither
marry..." (Mark 12:25)  "They which are accounted worthy to obtain
that world neither marry..." (Luke 20:35)  All 3 accounts go on to
say, "but are as the angels in heaven" or the equivalent.  I find
this last not very helpful since the Bible does not define angels
nor give any idea what their life is like.  (Some ministers claim
that they are sexless, different that humans etc. but I can find no
Biblical support for this.)


Doing this in anything like reasonable time would require more
propulsion capability than we can manage.  You would have to boost to
Pluto and then slow back down.  You could do something like a Hohman
orbit, but I think that would take ridiculous amounts of time (my
Rubber Bible is at home).

--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden


I don't know this specific ratio, but I do have an earlier post that says
a gun is 33 times more likely to defend someone (including the times where
the gun isn't fired, just scares the perpetrator away) than it is to kill
someone. (including self defense)  The post is kind of long, but I'll be
glad to dig it up and email it to anyone who asks.

Doug Holland

--


Before we get into another discussion on the relative merits of a car alarm,
let's go on the assumption that one is desired.  The question then remains,
which one?  I've owned a Hornet, and was satisfied, but not enough to get
another for my new car.  The Alpine has been highly recommended, but what about
Clifford and VSE's Derringer 2?  Any others?  I want all of the standard stuff;
door lock interface, starter kill, light flash, LED, valet mode, passive/active,
shock/motion sensor, etc...  Thanks for the advice!


HST is about 25,500 lbs (11,600 kg).  That doesn't include the cradle that
would have been in the cargo bay when it was deployed.  Spacelab-J on STS-47
was 21,861 lbs (according to the press-kit).

As someone else pointed out if they had been unable to deploy it for some
reason that would have had to land with it still in the cargo bay and this
was a planned for contingency.  This is not a problem for the shuttle,
though it would eliminate KSC as a landing site, they still have to go to
Edwards when landing with something like Spacelab in the cargo bay.

--GaryM


Are the boards at all intelligent?  (I.e., run by microcontrollers?)  The
easiest thing would be to have another line that says that one of the
boards is talking to the PC.  When this line was true, the other boards
could all hold off and not send their data.  This isn't a perfect solution,
though, since you have to worry a little about making sure two boards don't
decide to talk at the _exact same time_.

Other than that, I think you will need to hook up each board to "something"
that speaks RS-232.  This actually isn't as hard (or as expensive!) as it
used to be, though.  Assuming the boards talk relatively slowly (9600 BPS
or slower), the PICs can coordinate things between themselves to multiplex
the data.  (This is really just forbicly adding the suggestion in the first
paragraph to your system.  And it assumes that each board doesn't talk more
than 1/8th of the time, of for very long, since a PIC isn't going to be
able to buffer more than, maybe 20-some bytes!)

You might want to check into the prices of multi-serial card for your PC,
though.  I recently bought a Boca Research 2x4 card (2 parallel ports, 4
RS-232 ports) for a very reasonable $85.


I've recently been reading a paper of Merkle's (publixhed only on the
net, I think) discussing three potential replacements for DES.  Was
anyting ever done with these?  Are Khufu, Khafre, and/or Snefru still
being discussed anywhere?  (I know Snefru is referenced in the RSA
FAQ, and I think it may also be in the sci.crypt FAQ.)
   On a related topic, can anyone point me toward good sites to find
papers/articles/discussions of cryptology?  I think I've about exhausted
the Math/Sci library here, which doesn't seem to have anything more recent
than about '84.

   Thanks.


Stanley Cup Playoff stats through games played Sunday, April 25 1993
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Top 20 Point Scorers
Rnk  Pts  G   A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm  Ps  #  Player
---  --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- --  ------
  1    9  0   9  0  0  0  0   4 CAN BOS  C 12  Adam Oates
  2    8  5   3  4  0  2  0   0 USA STL RW 16  Brett Hull
  3    7  6   1  2  0  0  0   6 RUS BUF RW 89  Alexander Mogilny
  3    7  4   3  1  1  0  0   4 CAN PIT  C 66  Mario Lemieux
  3    7  3   4  2  1  0  0  19 CAN CAL RW 14  Theoren Fleury
  3    7  2   5  1  0  0  0  12 CAN TOR  C 93  Doug Gilmour
  3    7  1   6  0  0  0  0   0 CAN DET  D 77  Paul Coffey
  3    7  1   6  0  0  0  0   0 USA BUF  C 16  Pat LaFontaine
  9    6  4   2  0  0  2  0   4 CAN NYI  C 20  Ray Ferraro
  9    6  3   3  0  0  1  0   2 RUS VAN RW 10  Pavel Bure
  9    6  3   3  1  0  1  0   0 RUS BUF LW 13  Yuri Khmylev
  9    6  3   3  1  0  1  0   6 CAN VAN RW 16  Trevor Linden
  9    6  2   4  1  0  0  0   2 CAN BUF  C 10  Dale Hawerchuk
  9    6  2   4  1  0  2  0   0 USA STL  C 15  Craig Janney
  9    6  2   4  2  0  0  0   6 CAN BOS  C 49 *Joe Juneau
  9    6  2   4  0  0  0  1   6 CAN CAL  C 25  Joe Nieuwendyk
  9    6  1   5  0  0  0  0   4 CAN STL  D 21  Jeff Brown
  9    6  1   5  0  0  1  0   4 CAN PIT  C 10  Ron Francis

Top 10 Goal Scorers
Rnk  Pts  G   A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm  Ps  #  Player
---  --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- --  ------
  1    7  6   1  2  0  0  0   6 RUS BUF RW 89  Alexander Mogilny
  2    8  5   3  4  0  2  0   0 USA STL RW 16  Brett Hull
  2    5  5   0  3  0  1  0  14 CAN WAS  C 32  Dale Hunter
  4    7  4   3  1  1  0  0   4 CAN PIT  C 66  Mario Lemieux
  4    6  4   2  0  0  2  0   4 CAN NYI  C 20  Ray Ferraro
  4    5  4   1  0  0  1  0   6 CAN TOR LW 14  Dave Andreychuk
  4    5  4   1  1  0  0  0   4 CAN BOS RW  8  Cam Neely
  4    4  4   0  2  0  0  0   2 USA LA   C 12  Jimmy Carson
  4    4  4   0  0  0  2  0   0 USA QUE RW 48  Scott Young

Top 10 Assist Scorers
Rnk  Pts  G   A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm  Ps  #  Player
---  --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- --  ------
  1    9  0   9  0  0  0  0   4 CAN BOS  C 12  Adam Oates
  2    7  1   6  0  0  0  0   0 CAN DET  D 77  Paul Coffey
  2    7  1   6  0  0  0  0   0 USA BUF  C 16  Pat LaFontaine
  4    7  2   5  1  0  0  0  12 CAN TOR  C 93  Doug Gilmour
  4    6  1   5  0  0  0  0   4 CAN STL  D 21  Jeff Brown
  4    6  1   5  0  0  1  0   4 CAN PIT  C 10  Ron Francis
  4    5  0   5  0  0  0  0   0 USA WIN  D  6  Phil Housley
  4    5  0   5  0  0  0  0   4 SWE WAS  D  6  Calle Johansson
  4    5  0   5  0  0  0  0   8 CAN CAL  D  2  Al MacInnis

Top 10 Power-play Goal Scorers
Rnk  Pts  G   A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm  Ps  #  Player
---  --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- --  ------
  1    8  5   3  4  0  2  0   0 USA STL RW 16  Brett Hull
  2    5  5   0  3  0  1  0  14 CAN WAS  C 32  Dale Hunter
  3    7  3   4  2  1  0  0  19 CAN CAL RW 14  Theoren Fleury
  3    7  6   1  2  0  0  0   6 RUS BUF RW 89  Alexander Mogilny
  3    6  2   4  2  0  0  0   6 CAN BOS  C 49 *Joe Juneau
  3    5  2   3  2  0  0  0   6 CAN STL LW 19  Brendan Shanahan
  3    4  4   0  2  0  0  0   2 USA LA   C 12  Jimmy Carson
  3    4  2   2  2  0  0  0   2 TCH CAL  C 26  Robert Reichel
  3    4  3   1  2  0  1  0   2 FIN WIN RW 13 *Teemu Selanne
  3    3  2   1  2  0  1  0   6 CAN MON LW 25  Vincent Damphousse

All the Short-handed Goal Scorers
Rnk  Pts  G   A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm  Ps  #  Player
---  --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- --  ------
  1    7  3   4  2  1  0  0  19 CAN CAL RW 14  Theoren Fleury
  1    7  4   3  1  1  0  0   4 CAN PIT  C 66  Mario Lemieux
  1    4  3   1  0  1  1  0   4 USA CAL  C 29  Joel Otto
  1    4  2   2  0  1  0  0   6 USA CAL  D 20  Gary Suter
  1    3  2   1  1  1  0  0  23 RUS DET  C 91  Sergei Fedorov
  1    2  1   1  0  1  0  0  10 CAN BOS  C 19  Dave Poulin
  1    1  1   0  0  1  0  0   4 CAN WIN  C 38  Luciano Borsato
  1    1  1   0  0  1  0  0   2 CAN DET LW 11  Shawn Burr
  1    1  1   0  0  1  0  0   2 CAN STL LW 10  Dave Lowry
  1    1  1   0  0  1  1  0   0 USA BUF RW 18  Wayne Presley

Top 10 Game-winning Goal Scorers
Rnk  Pts  G   A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm  Ps  #  Player
---  --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- --  ------
  1    8  5   3  4  0  2  0   0 USA STL RW 16  Brett Hull
  1    6  4   2  0  0  2  0   4 CAN NYI  C 20  Ray Ferraro
  1    6  2   4  1  0  2  0   0 USA STL  C 15  Craig Janney
  1    4  4   0  0  0  2  0   0 USA QUE RW 48  Scott Young
  5    6  3   3  0  0  1  0   2 RUS VAN RW 10  Pavel Bure
  5    6  1   5  0  0  1  0   4 CAN PIT  C 10  Ron Francis
  5    6  3   3  1  0  1  0   0 RUS BUF LW 13  Yuri Khmylev
  5    6  3   3  1  0  1  0   6 CAN VAN RW 16  Trevor Linden
  5    5  4   1  0  0  1  0   6 CAN TOR LW 14  Dave Andreychuk
  5    5  5   0  3  0  1  0  14 CAN WAS  C 32  Dale Hunter

Top 5 Point Scoring Defensemen
Rnk  Pts  G   A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm  Ps  #  Player
---  --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- --  ------
  3    7  1   6  0  0  0  0   0 CAN DET  D 77  Paul Coffey
  9    6  1   5  0  0  0  0   4 CAN STL  D 21  Jeff Brown
 19    5  0   5  0  0  0  0   0 USA WIN  D  6  Phil Housley
 19    5  0   5  0  0  0  0   4 SWE WAS  D  6  Calle Johansson
 19    5  0   5  0  0  0  0   8 CAN CAL  D  2  Al MacInnis

Top 4 Rookie Point Scorers
Rnk  Pts  G   A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm  Ps  #  Player
---  --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- --  ------
  9    6  2   4  2  0  0  0   6 CAN BOS  C 49 *Joe Juneau
 33    4  3   1  0  0  1  0   8 USA PIT  C 15 *Shawn McEachern
 33    4  3   1  2  0  1  0   2 FIN WIN RW 13 *Teemu Selanne
 33    4  0   4  0  0  0  0   2 TCH BUF  D 42 *Richard Smehlik

Top 5 Penalty Minute Leaders
Rnk  Pts  G   A PG SG GW EN PIM Cty Tm  Ps  #  Player
---  --- -- --- -- -- -- -- --- --- --- -- --  ------
  1    1  0   1  0  0  0  0  26 CAN DET LW 55  Keith Primeau
  2    3  2   1  1  1  0  0  23 RUS DET  C 91  Sergei Fedorov
  3    0  0   0  0  0  0  0  22 CAN NYI  D 47  Richard Pilon
  4    2  1   1  0  0  0  0  21 CAN TOR RW 12  Rob Pearson
  4    1  1   0  0  0  0  0  21 CAN WIN RW 20  Tie Domi


Michael> The kind of interpretation I see as "incredibly perverse" is
Michael> that applied to the story of Sodom as if it were a blanket
Michael> equation of homosexual behavior and rape.  Since Christians
Michael> citing the Bible in such a context should be presumed to have
Michael> at least READ the story, it amounts to slander -- a charge
Michael> that homosexuality == rape -- to use that against us.

and

Michael>  It is just
Michael> as wrong (though slightly less incendiary, so it's a
Michael> secondary argument from the 'phobic contingent) to equate
Michael> homosexuality with such behavior as to equate it with the
Michael> rape of God's messengers.

Let's review the Sodom and Gomorrah story briefly.  It states
clearly that the visitors were angels.  But "all the men from every
part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the
house.  They called to Lot, `Where are the *men* who came to
you tonight?  Bring them out to us so that we can have sex
with them.' "

For the rest of the story the angels are referred to by the men
of Sodom and by Lot as *men*.  Furthermore we know from Gen 18:20,21
that the Lord had already found Sodom guilty of grievous sin--before
the angels visited the city.  It is clear that the grievous sin
of Sodom and Gomorrah involved homosexual sex.  It appears that
the men had become so inflamed in their lust that they had
group orgies in the public square--which simply indicates
the extremity of their depravity.  It does not show that lesser
degrees of homosexuality are not sinful, as Michael would have us
believe.

Ultimately our understanding of God's will for sexuality comes from
the creation story--not solely on the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.  He
created us male and female, and instituted marriage as a relationship
between one male and one female, "Therefore a man will leave his
father and mother, and be united with his wife, and they will become
one flesh."  This marriage relationship is the only sexual
relationship which God blesses and sanctions. He regulates and
protects the marriage of man and woman, and even uses it as a picture
of the relationship between himself and his church.  But we find not
one word of blessing or regulation for a sexual relationship between
two men, or between two women.

Everything else that we find in the Bible about sexuality derives from
or expresses God's will in instituting and blessing marriage.  Thus
the Levitical code, which was given only to the Jews, forbade incest,
homosexuality, bestiality; the Ten Commandments forbade adultery and
the coveting of our neighbor's wife; other commandments forbade rape.
The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were regarded as sexually immoral and
perverse (Jude 7) because they abandoned and/or polluted the marriage
relationship.  Thus also Paul regarded homosexuality as `unnatural',
Romans 1:26,27--not because this was simply Paul's opinion,
but because it was contrary to God's purpose in creating us
male and female.

Michael> Christians, no doubt very sincere ones, keep showing up here
Michael> and in every corner of USENET and the world, and ALL they
Michael> ever do is spout these same old verses (which they obviously
Michael> have never thought about, maybe never even read), in TOTAL
Michael> ignorance of the issues raised, slandering us with the vilest
Michael> charges of child abuse or whatever their perfervid minds can
Michael> manage to conjure up, tossing out red herrings with (they
Michael> suppose) great emotional force to cause readers to dismiss
Michael> our witness without even taking the trouble to find out what
Michael> it is.

Really, have you no better response to `slander' than more
slander?


That's assuming it could get built by them.

Of course,  it would probably sport Cruise missile Racks,
Sidewinder Missile tubes,  Bomb Points,  extra drop tanks,
a Full ECM suite, Terrain following radar  and stealth
materials.

IT might not fly,  but a technology demonstrator does
not require  actual flight.


I will remind this list that I have a booklet on Fatima I will send to any
one who wants it.  It is "Our Lady of Fatima's Peace Plan from Heaven".
It is 30 pages in length and includes the Fatima story.  If you want one
or more, let me know.


Wednesday's game of Beloved Yakult Swallows

(At Jingu, 38,000)
Hanshin Tigers      000 006 000 |6
Beloved Swallows    100 000 000 |1

  W - Kasai (2-0). L - Ito (0-1).
----------------------------------------------------------------
CENTRAL LEAGUE STANDING
==========================
                   W   L   T   Pct.   GB
Hiroshima Carp     7   2   0  .778    --
Chunichi Dragons   7   3   0  .700    0.5
Hanshin Tigers     6   4   0  .600    1.5
Hated   Giants     4   5   0  .444    3.0
Beloved Swallows   3   7   0  .300    4.5
Yokohama BayStars  2   8   0  .200    5.5
------------------------------------------------------------------

--


    Pink noise has constant power per geometric frequency increment
(octave, 1/3 octave, etc).  Thus the 10kHz-20kHz octave has the same
amount of noise power as the 10Hz-20Hz octave.
    White noise has constant power per arithmetic frequency increment
(Hz, kHz, etc).  Thus the 10kHz-10.1kHz band has the same amount of
noise power as the 10Hz-110Hz band (both bands are 100Hz wide).
    Pink noise can be made by passing white noise thru a -3db/octave
filter (usually approximated by a network of several RC pairs).
Note: you can't get -3db/octave by using half a -6db/octave network
:-(
    Pink noise is commonly used in audio power response measurements.
It shows up on audio spectrum analyzers (with octave-related bands)
as a flat line across the bands.


Yep.


Why are people willing to trust the STU-III?
Because the government does?


Hmm...has anyone of us computer geeks (me included) ever consider
that inovation is not limited to software/hardware.  True, MS
products do not boast features that MS invented, but how many products
out there by other vendors out there are truely innovative in
their continuing development?

I think what makes MS special to the public is thier innovative pricing.
It is true the XWindows/MAC/NEXT all have some feature(s) in thier GUI
that are better than MS.  But people like me can't afford them.
It is true that Apple has lower their pricing on the low end models..
but they are just that...low end.  System 7 is a better operating
system, but the machines they operate on just are too expensive for
my tastes...A UNIX platform is powerful enuf, but tell the common
user to set up .Xdefault (i am still confused on what some of them things
do) and they either puke or faint.

If u think about it, low prices aint innovative if u come down to it.  But
for the product it offers and on the lower cost (and powerful hardware
that it runs on as compare to macs)....MS is kinda innovative..

Oh yea, I guess the fact that the support products and applications
they have garnered for MSWindows does make them kinda innovative too..


My 85 Caprice Classic with 120K+ miles has finally reached
the threshold of total number of mechanical problems that
I am forced to post :).  Anyone out there who might be
able to give me some pointers on one or more of the below,
please e-mail or post!

1. When making turns, especially when accelerating,
   there is usually a loud "thunk" from the rear of
   of the car.  Sounds like it could be the differential.
   What could cause this?  Is the differential going
   bad?  I recently had the differential fluid changed,
   and it DID have tiny metal bits in it.  (And no,
   the sound is NOT something rolling around in the
   trunk!)

2. On starting the car, I get blue (oil) smoke from
   the exhaust for 5-10 seconds.  Exhaust valves
   going bad?  Worn rings?  Anyone know whether the
   valves on the 4.3 TBI engine can be lapped?

3. Brakes.  More pedal travel than I feel comfortable
   with, but master cylinder is full and fluid is
   relatively clear.  Pedal does NOT slowly sink to
   the floor when held down.  Pedal does not feel
   spongey, but I suppose that bleeding the brakes
   might help -- could anything else cause this?

4. Tranny.  Tranny problems seem to be slowly getting
   worse -- takes almost 2 seconds to downshift from
   3rd to 2nd on heavy throttle application, and more
   recently, it is reluctant to shift from 2nd to 3rd.
   Fluid (checked with car running with tranny put
   through all the gears and then back to park, as per
   Haynes manual) is red and clear, and is on full mark.

5. My springs all around are just about shot -- I have
   4 new shocks on, but car still skips out on bumps
   in turns at moderate to high speed.  How hard are
   they to change?  Can they be reconditioned?

I'd be interested in hearing from any GM full-size RWD owners
out there with stories to tell and/or advice.  Here in Philly,
these cars are apparently stolen(!) quite often and converted
into taxis.  Apparently the cab conversion shops will get a
junk title for the car or switch VINs with a car about to be
junked.  About 60% of Philly cabs are Caprice's, with most of
the rest being Crown Vic's with a few old New Yorkers and
Impalas (& Broughams).


1990 Mazda 626 DX       $6000 or best offer
NADA blue book: $9075 - $2175 for mileage = $6900
e-mail or call Ron at (908)805-2248 (work) or (908)454-9337 (home)

* 92,000 miles, all highway (I used to commute 160 miles/day)
* 5 speed
* Air Conditioning
* AM/FM/Cassette stereo
* split fold-down rear seat
* 2.2 liter, 12 valve, fuel injected engine
* roomy interior, comfy back seats, big trunk
* well maintained - oil and filter every 3,000 - 4,000, other maintanence
	as scheduled.  Except for the timing belt which still looks new.
	I did slip and went 5,000 miles without changing the oil once.
* tires have 20,000 miles, lots of life left (probably 30,000 to 40,000)
* front brake job at 84,000, back brakes are still good
* engine/trans/drive train in perfect condition - everything works,
	nothing needs replacing, next tune up scheduled at 120,000
* body is good - left tail light is cracked (I'm trying to find a used
	one - dealer wants $172!), two long scratches and a ding on the
	hood (vandalism?), a bunch of stone chips on the front of the
	hood.  Official Mazda touch up paint included in the deal.

This car is extremely reliable, even better than the Toyota Corolla it
replaced.  Besides the tires, brakes and maintanence items, the only other
parts that have been replaced are the headlight bulbs.

Selling because my wife refuses to drive a car without an automatic trans.
And she wants a station wagon with a sun roof, etc, etc.


If you already own all the "clone" equipment then there are lots of such
programs (see a current copy of Unix World Magazine).

*BUT*  your performance WILL suck lemons running an Xserver on a clone.
(From experience).  You would be much better off with an Xterminal if this
is a new install.  The performance will be at least four times better.
In addition it would be MUCH easier to install and use.  On top of that
they will cost about the same (price a clone with 4MB RAM, ethernet card,
very high performance graphics card, GOOD monitor, server software, TCP/IP
for clone software, mouse, keyboard, etc, etc, etc.... you spend a whole
lot of $$$$).

I can get 15" Tektronix XP11 terminals for under $900, and the performance
is over 80000 Xstones.....


Actually, I find the stuff about JC being a carpenter more
interesting.  Is there an independent source for this assertion,
or is it all from the Christian Bible?  Is there any record at
all of anything he built?  A table, a house, some stairs (Norm
Abrams says the real test of a carpenter's skill is building
stairs with hand tools).  Did he leave any plans behind for, say
kitchen counters and cabinets?  Did he build his own cross?
If so, did he use pressure-treated lumber?  Gotta use that
pressure-treated anywhere that wood meets concrete, but it
holds up better anyway for mose outdoor applications.  I keep
seeing these bumper-stickers that say "My boss is a Jewish
Carpenter," but they're always on the back of Ford Escorts,
and a real carpenter's apprentice would probably drive a
pickup, so I'm out for verification that he really was a
carpenter.

Dean Kaflowitz


ST>         as for more captain trivia, the next Edmonton
ST>         catain was Lee Fogilin who was later traded to
ST>         the Buffalo Sabres, after him was Wayne Gretzky
ST>         who w   traded to L A, then came Kevin Low who
ST>         nly this year was traded to the N Y Rangers

Wasn't Mark Messier Captain of the oilers before Kevin Lowe?
But, of course, he was traded as well -- so your point of every
Oilers captain being traded is still true.


There's been some discussion very recently as to whether the
government once again might exempt themselves from something they use
to screw us over...  Well, from comp.dcom.telecom:

From: lesreeves@attmail.com
Subject: Odds 'n Ends in the News

* The Clipper Chip device introduced yesterday by AT&T may not be
suitable for government use, says House Telecom Subcommittee Chairman
Markey.  In a letter to Commerce Secretary Brown, Markey asked whether
the use of the technology could lead to "inadvertently increased costs
to those U.S. companies hoping to serve both" the government and
private markets.  Markey has ordered Brown to answer several questions
about security and cost concerns by April 28.  (Communications Daily,
4/20/93)


.........
I, some years ago, almost became a victim of this.  Squirted a fair amount in
an old model 15 Teletype which was acting up, then turned it on.  The eruption
when the motor starting contacts broke was mighty spectacular... I almost got
my eyebrows singed, the plastic (old ones had safety glass) cover over the
platen, etc flew across the room, and several people in the room almost had
heart attacks.  Beware the explosive properties of WD40 vapor.


There's a blurb in the STATS Scoreboard about this, and though I don't have
the book with me here, my memory is that the best at hitting sac flies were
far below this 60% number.


I have a stack of records LP 33 that are from the early sixtys to mid seventys
with groups like the Beatles, Cream, Woodstock (triple album) etc etc. that I
would like to get rid of.  I would be willing to sell one or all for whatever
resonable offer.  Some albums still have the original wrapper and price tag.
I would like to get around $5 for each or you can call and make offer on the
lot.  I could list them all but I'd be typing forever.
           call (408) 296-4444


I'd appreciate some support for this statement.  I'm not sure
it really makes sense to me.

I've heard this frequently - what exactly is Pascal's wager?

I don't know.  You point out that your mother's treatment upset you,
and see inconsistencies in various religions.  I'm not sure if that
constitutes broken-ness or not.   It certainly consititutes
disillusionment.


I would change one of the many parts that define my cultural identity.
If I loose a leg, it might change my personality, but I do not
stop being a human being.
Even more, when someone gets a baboon heart, that person is still
human.

Not really. That is what differenciates agnostics from atheists.
As an atheist, I do not believe there is a god, nor do I believe that
there ever was one.
So, those commandments have no meaning to me. Also, there are a lot
of ideas that have no meaning to me: The idea of a chosen people,
the idea of a given right to the land of Israel, the idea of keeping
kosher, the idea of opposing intermarriage, the idea of having a
Torah that was inspired by god, etc.
By being an atheist, I cannot support the idea of the Jewish Nation
as defined by a religious principle or based on a religious identity.
For me, religion is just another piece in what constitutes the cultural
identity of the Jewish people. I believe that as a people with a
cultural identity they constitute a Nation and have the same right as
any other people in the world to have their own State. The same right
as the Armenians have, as the Palestinians have, as the French have,
and as anybody else have.
I cannot say that by accepting a different god someone has lost all
cultural identification.


&
& And speaking of shims, why would the clearance of the valves get smaller,
& i.e.
& need the use of a thinner shim?

Because the valves recede into the cylinder head faster than the shims/cams
wear down..


With the Southern Baptist Convention convening this June to consider
the charges that Freemasonry is incompatible with christianity, I thought
the following quotes by Mr. James Holly, the Anti-Masonic Flag Carrier,
would amuse you all...

     The following passages are exact quotes from "The Southern
Baptist Convention and Freemasonry" by James L. Holly, M.D., President
of Mission and Ministry To Men, Inc., 550 N 10th St., Beaumont, TX
77706.

     The inside cover of the book states: "Mission & Ministry to Men,
Inc. hereby grants permission for the reproduction of part or all of
this booklet with two provisions: one, the material is not changed and
two, the source is identified." I have followed these provisions.

     "Freemasonry is one of the allies of the Devil" Page iv.

     "The issue here is not moderate or conservative, the issue is God
and the Devil" Page vi."

     "It is worthwhile to remember that the formulators of public
school education in America were Freemasons" Page 29.

     "Jesus Christ never commanded toleration as a motive for His
disciples, and toleration is the antithesis of the Christian message."
Page 30.

     "The central dynamic of the Freemason drive for world unity
through fraternity, liberty and equality is toleration. This is seen
in the writings of the 'great' writers of Freemasonry". Page 31.

     "He [Jesus Christ] established the most sectarian of all possible
faiths." Page 37.

     "For narrowness and sectarianism, there is no equal to the Lord
Jesus Christ". Page 40.

     "What seems so right in the interest of toleration and its
cousins-liberty, equality and fraternity-is actually one of the
subtlest lies of the 'father of lies.'" Page 40.

     "The Southern Baptist Convention has many churches which were
founded in the Lodge and which have corner stones dedicated by the
Lodge. Each of these churches should hold public ceremonies of
repentance and of praying the blood and the Name of the Lord Jesus
Christ over the church and renouncing the oaths taken at the
dedication of the church and/or building." Page 53-54.


	Actually there is an S3-based card on the market that supports
	multiple adapters in one system. Unfortunately, It is VL-Bus
	only (They may have an ISA version by now...?) from a company
	called Metheus. The address and phone number is:

			Metheus Corp
			OGC Science Park
			1600 NW Compton Dr.
			Beaverton, OR  97006-6905
			(503)-690-1550
	Be aware, this is a very high-end card, capable of 4MB of VRAM,
	so it does not come CHEAP. But, I have personally seen TWO of
	these boards running a dual screen Windows 3.1.


I have a Bronica SQA medium format camera for sale.  Includes 2 lenses, 1 film
back, and a view finder.  $2.200.00 firm.  Contact me via E-mail for info.


I suppose it's too late now, but the repeated use of the word
"release" is peculiar.  Let's say you and your family are besieged
in your home by some people with tanks, helicopters, and automatic
weapons.  They give you a break from the amplified sounds of dying
rabbits to blare, "You in there!  Release the children, and they'll
be perfectly all right."  Stipulate on top of that that you may not
have your epistemology entirely in order.  Is it entirely surprising
that the Branch Davidians were reluctant to "release" their children
into FBI custody?


I'm curious.  Are you referring to Koresh as "the Man"?  Why the
upper case M?

I never claimed to be a spokesman for "most people".  It is an assumption
on my part that people with normal values and morality would be more
concerned with human life than sermon structure.

Are burning children part of this very special event?

What about those who do not know the Master's voice?  Does the Master
not care about them?  Eloquent, but corrupt, preaching may be of little
difference to you.  But I suspect it made a big difference to all of
those who died in the compound.


The Fat Lady is about to hit the first note...Okay,how about 3-0 deficits?
The B's chances for a comeback are now less 1%(That's based on 7-game
playoff format)...

He got the start but the headlines on all Boston local TV sportscats
said it all : "Sutter Blue It!". And he did.

Harry Sinden's appearance outside of B's dressing room after Game 3
was a pathetic site. He said something really retarded to cover Sutter's
behind,"This game is not about winning or losing..". Harry,check the
schedule! Your team is in the playoffs and about to go on a long summer
vacation on Sunday morning!

Harry and his buttkisser Milbury will never admit that they screwed up
in a major way when they brought in one of the dumbest people in the
business,Brian Sutter. Sutter's playoff record as the head coach in St.Louis
speaks for itself. The Blues really have a chance to advance to the
second round this year...


was
Yuppies
started
Yep, that's when I noticed it too. I stopped replacing the hood badge
after the second or third one (at $12.00 each).

2002 drivers used to flash their headlight at each other in greeting. Try
flashing your headlights at a 318i driver and see what kind of look you
get. They usually check their radar detector...they think you're alerting
them to a cop.


Climbers regard 8000 metres and up as "The Death Zone".  Even on 100% Oxygen,
you are slowly dying.  At 8848m (Everest), most climbers spend only a short
period of time before descending.  I've been above 8000 once.  Descending as
little as 300m feels like walking into a jungle, the air is so thick.  Everest
in winter without oxygen, no support party (Alpine style).  That is the
"ultimate challenge" (or is it solo?)


In the King James Version of the Bible there are three differents words
translated into the word "hell".  These Greek words have totally different
meanings.  The words are Hades, Tartaros, and Gehenna.

    In bibical usage, the Greek word Hades is used only 11 times in the
New Testament, and is roughly the equivalent to the Old Testament word Sheol...
meaning the grave or pit (compare Acts 2:27 with Psalms 16:10).  Hades may be
likened to a hole in the ground. (In the Bible it has nothing to do with fire!)

    Most modern bibical translators admit that the use in the English word hell
to translate Hades and Sheol are an unfortunate and misleading practice.

    Why?  Because when seeing the word "hell" many readers impute to it the
traditional connotation of an ever-burning inferno, when this was never
remotely intended in the Greek language or in Old English!

    In its true bibical usage Hades does indeed refer to the state or abode of
the dead, but not in the sense of spirits walking around in some sort of
"shadowy realm."  Hades is simply the abode we call the grave.  All dead go to
this hell.

    The second "hell" of the Bible, Tartaros, is mentioned only once in
scripture, 2 Pet.2:4; "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast
them down to hell (TARTAROS), and delivered them into chains of darkness to be
reserved unto judgment..."

    Following their rebellion to unseat God from His throne (Isa.14:12-14;
Rev.12:4), the archangel Lucifer (now Satan) and a third of the created angels
(now demons) were ejected from heaven (Luke 10:18).  They were cast down to
Tartaros, a place or condition of restraint that God has imposed on the
mutinous angels as they await ultimate judgment (Jude 6; 1 Cor.6:3).

    Tartaros, then, is a "hell" that applies only to evil, rebellious angels or
demons (It is interesting that the ancient Greeks used this word to describe
the place in which Zeus confined the rebellious Titans).  Nowhere in the Bible
is there any mention of men being put into this particular "hell".

    The the third word that is translated as "hell" in the Bible is Gehenna. It
comes from the Hebrew GAI HINNOM, meaning "valley of Hinniom."  Hinnom is a
deep, narrow ravine located to the south and southwest of Jerusalem.

    In Old Testament times it was a place of abominable pagan rites, including
infant sacrifice (It was there that the apostate kings Ahaz and Manasseh made
their children "pass through the fire" to the god Molech.  The rites were
specifically celebrated in Tophet, the "place of abhorrence," one of the chief
groves in the valley).

    King Josiah of ancient Judah finally put an end to these abominations.  He
defiled the valley, rendering it ceremonially unclean (2 Kings 23:10).  Later
the valley became the cesspool and city dump of Jerusalem; a repository for
sewage, refuse and animal carcasses.  The bodies of dispised criminals were
also burned there along with the rubbish.  Fires burned continuously, feeding
by a constant supply of garbage and refuse.

    Aceldama, the "field of blood", purchased with the money Judas received for
the betrayal of Christ (Matt.27:8) was also in part of the valley of Hinnom.

    So what does this valley called Gehenna have to do with hell?

    In Rev.19:20: the Satan inspired political dictator and a miracle-working
religious figure, the False Prophet, working with him will resist the
re-establishment of the government of God by Jesus Christ at His Second Coming.
Their fate is revealed by the apostle John: "And the beast was taken, and with
him the false prophet...  These both were cast alive into a lake of fire
burning with brimstone."

    Where will this temporary lake of fire (this "hell") be?

    The prophet Isaiah wrote of this lake of fire prepared for the Beast: "For
Tophet (in the valley of Hinnom) is ordained of old, yea for the king it is
prepared, he hath made it deep and large, the pile thereof is fire and wood,
the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it" (Isa.30:33).

    One thousand years later, Satan himself will be cast into this rekindled
fiery lake where the Beast and False Prophet were cast! (Rev.20:10).

    But what of the wicked who have died over the millennia?  Does the Bible
say that they are now suffering fiery punishment for their sins in a lake of
fire?

    In the sequence of Rev.20 the incorrigibly wicked are resurrected to be
thrown into the lake of fire after Satan is cast there! (Rev.20:15). What will
become of these wicked?  Will they writhe in flames for eternity?

    The wicked will be burned up from the intense heat of the coming Gehenna
fire on the earth.  They wil be consumed, annihilated, destroyed!  This
punishment will be everlasting (permanent and final).  The Bible calls it the
"second death" (Rev.20:14; 21:8), from which there is no possibility of a
further resurrection.

    The Bible does teach eternal punishment, but not eternal punishing.

    The prophet Malachi provides a graphic description. "For, behold, the day
cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do
wickedly, shall be stubble, and the day that cometh shall burn them up..."
(4:1).  To the righteous, God says that the wicked shall be "ashes under the
soles of your feet..."(Mal.4:3).

    Gehenna was a place of destruction and death, not a place of living
torture!  Jesus was talking to Jews who understood all about this Gehenna or
valley of Hinnom.  Utter destruction by fire was complete.  Nothing was left,
but ashes!

    Every text in the Bible translated from this Greek word Gehenna means
complete destruction, not living torture (not eternal life in torment)!  The
Bible says, in Romans 6:23, "The wages of sin is death", not eternal life in
torture.  The punishment revealed in the Bible is Death... the cessation of
life.


Since I started this twist of this thread...

Actually you fell into the above because you said "I believe"
If you had used the rest of this post in your previous post
I do not think anyone would have agrued with you.

The following three are not the competition for Windows 3.0 (IMHO of course)
System 7  -- Does not currently run on Intel boxes
NeXTSTep  -- Rather expensive should be a competitor to Windows NT not 3.x
Unix/X    --   "        "        "    " "      "     "    "     "   "   "

With the exception of OS/2 all of the above will require most users
to spend a very large sum of money to upgrade applications to ones that
run under these OS's. And basically money speaks louder than anything
else. You keep saying "More stable multitasking" is what you mean
"Not Multi-finder / GEM / GeoWorks co-operative multi-tasking but
real honest to goodness prioritized pre-emptive multi-tasking"?

Basically this is moot since most users have been able to share data for
quite a long time, but are still to blind to know it.

Why pick it up? You stated the reasons behind your opinions. Stated them in
a very straight-forward, though over protective, manner. And aside from
my earlier comments about who actually is a competitor, I think we are in
agreement.

Does Tim Glauert agree? Let's wait and see.
--

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine not those of BNR.


It was Clint Malarchuk

Whatever happened to him, anyway?


In Win 3.1, one may assign hot-keys for the program items within the
Program Manager. How about the Program Manager itself? Is there one
already, or is there some way to assign one?


This sounds suspiciously like black magic to me.  If by "quick wiggle
to the right" you mean that the handlebars turn toward the right
before turning to the left, what is the input to the steering
mechanism that makes this happen in the absence of the old
"shove-shove"?


I hope this makes you feel better, but the overtime between the Isles and
the Caps was GREAT!!!


You asked me to look over here, but I was on my way back anyway :-)

#[reply to cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)]
#
#>If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? What
#>right do we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally
#>mandated morality?  Pardon the extremism, but couldn't I murder your
#>"brother" and say that I was exercising my rights as I saw them, was
#>doing what felt good, didn't want anyone forcing their morality on me,
#>or I don't follow your "morality" ?
#
#I believe that morality is subjective.  Each person is entitled to his
#own moral attitudes.  Mine are not a priori more correct than someone
#elses.  This does not mean however that I must judge another on the
#basis of his rather than my moral standards.  While he is entitled to
#believe what his own moral sense tells him, the rest of society is
#entitled to pass laws spelling out punishments for behavior that is
#offensive to the majority.

Why?  Your last statement.  Why?  By which authority?

#Most criminals do not see their behavior as moral.  The may realize that
#it is immoral and not care.  They are thus not following their own moral
#system but being immoral.  For someone to lay claim to an alternative
#moral system, he must be sincere in his belief in it and it must be
#internally consistent.

Why?  Your last statement.  Why are these things necessary?

And believe me, a belief in terrorism can be both sincere and frighteningly
consistent.

#Some sociopaths lack an innate moral sense and
#thus may be incapable of behaving morally.  While someone like Hitler
#may have believed that his actions were moral, we may judge him immoral
#by our standards.  Holding that morality is subjective does not mean
#that we must excuse the murderer.

Trouble is, this would sound just fine coming from someone like Hitler, too.
(I do *not* mean any comparison or offence, David.)   Try substituting
the social minority of your choice for 'sociopath', 'Hitler',  and
'murderer'.  No logical difference.  Someone like you, vs. someone like
Hitler. Zero sum.


   I need help in creating my 4x4 perspective matrix.  I'd like to use this for
   transforming x, y, z, w in some texture mapping code I got from Graphics Gems
   I.  I have many books which talk about this, but none of them in simple plain
   english.  If you have Graphics Gems I, I'm talking about page 678.

   I'd like to have a perspective matrix that handles different field-of-views
   and aspect of course.  Thank's for your help.

ca2 = cos(alpha / 2) Horizontal
sa2 = sin(alpha / 2)
cb2 = cos(beta / 2) Vertical
sb2 = sin(beta 7 2)
Zf = Far clipping value
Zn = Near clipping value

Matrix:
[[ca2/sa2 0 0 0]
[0 cb2/sb2 0 0]
[0 0 Zf/(Zf-Zn) 1]
[0 0 -Zn*Zf/(Zf-Zn) 0]]


[referring to Mary]

I have quite a problem with the idea that Mary never committed a sin.
Was Mary fully human?  If it is possible for God to miraculously make
a person free of original sin, and free of committing sin their whole
life, then what is the purpose of the Incarnation of Jesus?  Why can't
God just repeat the miracle done for Mary to make all the rest of us
sinless, without the need for repentance and salvation and all that?

I don't particularly object to the idea of the assumption, or the
perpetual virginity (both of which I regard as Catholic dogma about which
I will agree to disagree with my Catholic brothers and sisters in
Christ), and I even believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, but this
concept of Mary's sinlessness seems to me to be at odds with the
rest of Christian doctrine as I understand it.


: I just bought a new IDE hard drive for my system to go with the one
: I already had.  My problem is this.  My system only had a IDE cable
: for one drive, so I had to buy cable with two drive connectors
: on it, and consequently have to switch cables.  The problem is,
: the new hard drive's manual refers to matching pin 1 on the cable
: with both pin 1 on the drive itself and pin 1 on the IDE card.  But
: for the life of me I cannot figure out how to tell which way to plug
: in the cable to align these.

Most IDE drives that I have dealt with have had pin 2 labeled on the printed
circuit board (this is sufficient to determine which side is which).  If your
IDE drive does not have a label, then you can look for a polarization notch in
the receptacle (the connector on the drive with the pins).  If the receptacle
is center polarized, that is it has one rectangular notch about 4 mm wide
positioned in the center of one side, then you can identify pin 1 as follows:
look into the pins with the notch at the top, pin 1 is at the top right.  On
all drives I have seen this is toward the power connector.  As for which pin
is pin 1 on the controller, well you can use the same criteria but look hard
for the labelling of any pin.  Once you know which end pin 1&2 are on or pins
39 & 40 (the oposite end), then you are all set.  All you need to do is keep
the pin 1 end connected to the pin 1 end.  You don't even have to look at the
cable itself.  Just trace the pin 1 side of the cable through.  Usually the
pin 1 of the cable is identified by a different color (red usually).  But
beware - many cable makers are not very careful about this - I have seen cables
with pin 40 being the one marked red.  Of course with non-polarized connectors
this doesn't matter - you can plug the cable in either way and YOU decide
which side is pin 1.

: Secondly, the cable has like a connector at two ends and one between them.
: I figure one end goes in the controler and then the other two go into
: the drives.  Does it matter which I plug into the "master" drive
: and which into the "Slave"?  any help appreciated.  thanks...

It doesn't matter what gets plugged where.  But it does matter how the drives
are jumpered.  There will be (amongst other options) two jumpers that you
should be concerned with on BOTH drives.  One jumper will select whether the
drive is the slave or the master.  If it is the master, then a second jumper
selects whether or not a slave is present.  You will have to consult the
docuementation that came with you drives.  If you do not have docuementation,
then just call the manufacturers hotline number or fax number if they have
one.  This kind of information is routinely needed by people just like
yourself.  They will fax you complete info about the jumpers.  If you don't
have convenient access to a fax machine, then you can usually get voice
help.  Or post the specific question to this group.  (I probably won't be
able to help you).

Good Luck


Here are the final stadings for the USENET Hockey Draft.  Congratulations
to this year's winner, Dave Wessels of Victoria, B.C., who parlayed his
initial 1000 points into 1575.9 points!

Thanks to all 262 teams for entering the biggest USENET Hockey Draft ever!
I hope to hear from you all again this September, for the 7th Annual draft.

It has been my pleasure running the draft, and I hope you all had fun.

	- Andrew

USENET Hockey Draft Standings
Week 28

Posn	Team				Total	Pts	Cash	Last Posn

1.	Dave Wessels                    1575.9	1574	1.9	(1)
2.	Gilles Carmel                   1539.0	1538	1.0	(3)
	Bob Hill                        1539.0	1515	24.0	(2)
4.	Seppo Kemppainen                1515.2	1468	47.2	(4)
5.	The Awesome Oilers              1513.0	1458	68.6	(5)
6.	Hillside Raiders                1503.0	1496	7.0	(6)
7.	Mak "The Knife" Paranjape       1500.0	1469	31.0	(7)
8.	Jan Stein                       1492.3	1457	35.3	(8)
9.	this years model                1488.6	1471	17.6	(9)
10.	Tapio Repo                      1486.6	1467	19.6	(10)
11.	Rangers Of Destiny              1486.0	1444	42.0	(10)
12.	The Underachievers              1459.1	1449	10.1	(13)
13.	FRANK'S BIG FISH                1457.0	1435	22.0	(12)
14.	Go Flames                       1448.3	1408	40.3	(15)
15.	On Thin Ice                     1444.3	1412	32.3	(14)
16.	Mopar Muscle Men                1441.7	1438	3.7	(17)
17.	littlest giants                 1439.6	1404	35.6	(16)
18.	Lindros Losers                  1427.7	1426	1.7	(18)
19.	DIE Penguin Bandwaggoners       1412.2	1392	20.2	(19)
20.	Samuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta)   1401.9	1397	4.9	(20)
21.	Boomer's Boys                   1374.2	1374	0.2	(21)
22.	Delaware Wombats                1372.3	1371	1.3	(23)
23.	General Accounting Office       1365.9	1345	20.9	(22)
24.	Migods Menschen                 1365.6	1334	31.6	(24)
25.	Wellsy's Buttheads DEC NH       1363.6	1311	52.6	(25)
26.	Fife Flyers                     1356.4	1325	31.4	(27)
27.	Rocky Mountain High             1352.8	1351	1.8	(26)
28.	Dave Snell                      1346.0	1321	25.0	(29)
29.	Fluide Glacial                  1341.0	1323	18.0	(30)
30.	Gerald Olchowy                  1337.7	1304	33.7	(28)
31.	Gaoler                          1317.2	1306	11.2	(31)
32.	SmegHeads                       1316.3	1316	0.3	(32)
33.	Neural Netters                  1309.3	1298	11.3	(35)
34.	The Young And The Skateless     1307.9	1265	42.9	(33)
35.	Sam & His Dogs                  1297.6	1286	11.6	(34)
36.	Artic Storm                     1293.3	1254	39.3	(37)
37.	Youngbucs                       1293.0	1238	101.7	(36)
38.	Soft Swedes                     1284.9	1238	46.9	(38)
39.	Simmonac                        1280.8	1260	20.8	(46)
40.	Milton Keynes Kings             1271.8	1269	2.8	(40)
41.	Jeff Horvath                    1266.6	1261	5.6	(39)
42.	Legion of Hoth                  1265.8	1250	15.8	(45)
43.	Le Fleur de Lys                 1264.3	1239	25.3	(43)
44.	Yan The Man Loke                1263.7	1263	0.7	(44)
45.	Kuehn Crushers                  1258.1	1213	45.1	(41)
46.	Hamster from Hoboken            1254.7	1246	8.7	(41)
47.	Streaks                         1249.8	1195	54.8	(49)
48.	Brian Bergman                   1249.3	1226	23.3	(50)
49.	The Finnish Force               1248.5	1226	22.5	(47)
50.	Grant Marven                    1239.9	1237	2.9	(53)
51.	ice legion                      1239.8	1211	28.8	(48)
52.	Goaldingers                     1237.0	1215	22.0	(51)
53.	T C OverAchievers               1231.9	1229	2.9	(52)
54.	Randy Coulman                   1226.2	1221	5.2	(62)
55.	Bozrah Bruins                   1225.2	1180	45.2	(54)
56.	Skriko Wolves                   1223.4	1218	5.4	(57)
57.	buffalo soldiers                1223.0	1168	62.1	(59)
58.	Houdini's Magicians             1221.3	1203	18.3	(56)
59.	Steven And Mark Dream Team      1219.1	1216	3.1	(64)
60.	Real Bad Toe Jam                1216.9	1168	48.9	(55)
61.	rec.sport.hockey choices        1216.3	1215	1.3	(58)
62.	bemybaby                        1216.2	1162	54.2	(60)
63.	LAMP LIGHTERS                   1213.9	1208	5.9	(63)
64.	LIPPE                           1212.9	1199	13.9	(61)
65.	Phil and Kev's Karma Dudes      1205.8	1205	0.8	(69)
66.	Doug Bowles                     1203.0	1183	20.0	(72)
67.	Bloom County All Stars          1202.3	1198	4.3	(67)
68.	Tom                             1202.1	1189	13.1	(66)
69.	Indianapolis Bennies            1197.8	1177	20.8	(65)
70.	Bruins                          1196.1	1196	0.1	(68)
71.	smithw                          1195.0	1174	21.0	(70)
72.	AIK Exiles                      1188.5	1154	34.5	(77)
73.	Iowa Hockeyes                   1188.3	1172	16.3	(71)
74.	Frank Worthless                 1186.3	1180	6.3	(76)
75.	The Great Pumpkin               1183.4	1129	54.4	(73)
76.	NON!                            1182.4	1166	16.4	(74)
77.	shooting seamen                 1180.1	1180	0.1	(75)
78.	Invisible Inc                   1178.1	1177	1.1	(78)
79.	Brad Gibson                     1174.2	1147	27.2	(79)
80.	Cougarmania                     1170.8	1146	24.8	(80)
81.	John Zupancic                   1170.1	1143	27.1	(84)
82.	David Wong                      1166.0	1111	66.1	(83)
83.	garryola                        1165.7	1156	9.7	(85)
84.	Gary Bergman Fan Club           1163.1	1158	5.1	(86)
	Staffan Axelsson                1163.1	1148	15.1	(87)
86.	Kortelaisen Kovat               1158.0	1103	164.1	(81)
87.	Chocolate Rockets               1154.5	1152	2.5	(90)
88.	PLP Fools                       1153.1	1153	0.1	(82)
89.	The Kamucks                     1152.0	1097	76.1	(97)
90.	Chubby Checkers                 1150.3	1134	16.3	(88)
	KODIAKS                         1150.3	1149	1.3	(93)
92.	Derrill's Dastardly Dozen       1150.1	1128	22.1	(89)
93.	Ken DeCruyenaere                1147.0	1142	5.0	(91)
94.	Fisher Dirtbags                 1146.7	1146	0.7	(92)
95.	Neil Younger                    1145.2	1131	14.2	(106)
96.	BSC Oranienburg                 1144.1	1137	7.1	(96)
97.	No Namers                       1138.0	1083	58.2	(94)
98.	Arsenal Maple Leafs             1137.8	1134	3.8	(98)
99.	The Campi Machine               1137.0	1082	65.3	(95)
100.	Mombasa Mosquitos               1131.1	1125	6.1	(100)
101.	Bjoern Leaguen                  1130.0	1127	3.0	(103)
102.	Ellis Islanders                 1123.6	1116	7.6	(99)
103.	Zachmans Wingers                1122.8	1073	49.8	(101)
104.	King Suke                       1120.1	1120	0.1	(108)
105.	Larry                           1116.8	1105	11.8	(109)
106.	VoteNoOct26                     1115.8	1084	31.8	(111)
107.	Bloodgamers                     1115.1	1073	42.1	(112)
	Het Schot Is Hard               1115.1	1097	18.1	(110)
109.	Hurricane Andrew                1114.6	1107	7.6	(107)
110.	Dirty White Socks               1114.4	1071	43.4	(104)
111.	Wormtown Woosbags               1114.0	1059	72.6	(105)
112.	Bruce's Rented Mules            1111.9	1100	11.9	(112)
113.	Oklahoma Stormchasers           1111.3	1083	28.3	(116)
114.	Teem Kanada                     1111.0	1095	16.0	(114)
115.	Edelweiss                       1110.9	1108	2.9	(102)
116.	Frank's Follies                 1110.2	1086	24.2	(115)
117.	Pond Slime                      1109.7	1109	0.7	(118)
118.	SPUDS                           1108.6	1096	12.6	(117)
119.	PSV Dartmouth                   1097.1	1090	7.1	(119)
120.	Kokudo Keikaku Bunnies          1096.3	1056	40.3	(124)
121.	Blue Talon                      1095.3	1082	13.3	(121)
122.	Stanford Ice Hawks              1094.2	1066	28.2	(122)
123.	Timo Ojala                      1088.3	1088	0.3	(125)
124.	Mark Sanders                    1088.1	1077	11.1	(120)
125.	Aye Carumba!!!                  1087.9	1084	3.9	(123)
126.	Dirty Rotten Puckers            1087.2	1086	1.2	(128)
127.	garys team                      1087.1	1070	17.1	(133)
128.	Cluster Buster                  1084.6	1077	7.6	(127)
129.	Haral                           1083.3	1076	7.3	(126)
130.	Apricot Fuzzfaces               1081.3	1058	23.3	(129)
131.	Gary Bill Pens Dynasty          1078.6	1059	19.6	(132)
132.	Seattle PFTB                    1077.9	1055	22.9	(135)
133.	Nesbitt                         1077.1	1076	1.1	(131)
134.	The Lost Poots                  1076.7	1070	6.7	(130)
135.	Le Groupe MI                    1076.2	1046	30.2	(137)
136.	Arctic Circles                  1075.6	1038	37.6	(134)
137.	Late Night with David Letterman 1074.0	1074	0.0	(136)
138.	Wembley LostWeekenders          1071.3	1071	0.3	(145)
139.	Wild Hearted Sons               1068.9	1064	4.9	(143)
140.	Dree Hobbs                      1066.4	1053	13.4	(149)
141.	Closet Boy's Boys               1066.0	1018	48.0	(142)
142.	Scott Glenn                     1065.2	1055	10.2	(139)
143.	GO BRUINS                       1064.2	1058	6.2	(138)
144.	Andy Y F WONG                   1063.5	1042	21.5	(145)
	Book 'em Danno's Bushbabies     1063.5	1053	10.5	(148)
146.	McKees Rocks Rockers            1062.1	1057	5.1	(147)
147.	boutch 92-93                    1062.0	1042	20.0	(144)
148.	team gold                       1060.7	1044	16.7	(141)
149.	Goddess Of Fermentation         1056.2	1026	30.2	(151)
150.	convex stars                    1055.6	1050	5.6	(153)
151.	Flying Kiwis                    1055.1	1046	9.1	(140)
152.	Einstein's Rock Band            1054.0	1054	0.0	(154)
153.	Dr Joel Fleishman               1053.7	1050	3.7	(165)
154.	Tim Rogers                      1053.1	1045	8.1	(152)
155.	MY TEAM                         1053.0	998	174.8	(159)
156.	Tap                             1052.5	1052	0.5	(156)
157.	Sundogs                         1052.4	1052	0.4	(166)
158.	Buttered Waffles                1052.0	1006	46.0	(157)
159.	GO HABS GO                      1051.0	1043	8.0	(150)
160.	Princeton Canucks               1050.0	995	124.2	(155)
161.	Hubert's Hockey Homeboys        1049.6	1049	0.6	(157)
162.	Satan's Choice                  1047.5	1033	14.5	(164)
163.	Bob's Blues                     1046.8	1000	46.8	(160)
164.	Les Nordiques                   1045.0	990	60.4	(162)
165.	Pierre Mailhot                  1044.6	1042	2.6	(167)
166.	furleys furies                  1041.6	1038	3.6	(161)
167.	Slap Shot Marco                 1039.8	988	51.8	(168)
168.	HUNTERS & COLLECTORS            1038.4	996	42.4	(162)
169.	The Dreamers                    1038.0	983	63.7	(173)
170.	San Jose Mahi Mahi              1036.8	1005	31.8	(169)
171.	Jeff Nimeroff                   1034.8	986	48.8	(171)
172.	East City Jokers                1034.0	979	69.1	(174)
173.	The Leafs Rule!!!!              1033.8	1008	25.8	(170)
174.	Darse Billings                  1033.7	999	34.7	(178)
175.	Flowers                         1033.0	978	113.6	(177)
176.	Daryl Turner                    1030.4	1028	2.4	(175)
177.	LANA Inc                        1030.3	1003	27.3	(180)
178.	riding the pine                 1028.7	1008	20.7	(176)
179.	Spinal Tap                      1027.4	986	41.4	(181)
180.	Stimpy ADG Zeta                 1027.0	1006	21.0	(172)
181.	Chappel's Chumps                1024.0	1000	24.0	(179)
182.	Big Bad Bruins                  1023.5	1005	18.5	(184)
183.	Enforcers                       1022.1	994	28.1	(183)
184.	Mike Mac Cormack Sydney NS CAN  1022.0	967	107.2	(186)
	JimParker                       1022.0	967	179.0	(182)
186.	Bulldogs                        1020.4	997	23.4	(187)
187.	Yellow Plague                   1019.2	1005	14.2	(195)
188.	Jeff Bachovchin                 1018.7	972	46.7	(184)
189.	Absolut Lehigh                  1017.9	1009	8.9	(189)
190.	voyageurs                       1015.7	1013	2.7	(188)
191.	Republican Dirty Tricksters     1010.0	955	66.0	(190)
192.	Ninja Turtles                   1009.3	1008	1.3	(196)
193.	Dr.D And The S.O.D.             1009.1	992	17.1	(192)
194.	Henry's Bar B Q                 1008.7	1008	0.7	(191)
195.	Bunch of Misfits                1007.8	984	23.8	(193)
196.	Robyns Team                     1007.0	977	30.0	(194)
197.	Cobra's Killers                 1006.7	975	31.7	(202)
198.	Cherry Bombers                  1005.2	1004	1.2	(203)
199.	Kuta Papercuts                  1003.5	985	18.5	(200)
200.	Great Expectations              998.3	996	2.3	(201)
	Acadien                         998.3	980	18.3	(198)
202.	DARMAN'S Dragons                994.3	966	28.3	(199)
203.	Team Melville                   993.9	947	46.9	(197)
204.	Killer Apes                     990.3	966	24.3	(205)
205.	Kaufbeuren Icebreakers          988.6	951	37.6	(206)
206.	Jayson's Kinky Pucks            987.9	961	26.9	(204)
207.	Roger Smith                     987.6	948	39.6	(208)
208.	Firebirds                       980.9	977	3.9	(209)
209.	IKEA Wholesale                  980.7	979	1.7	(211)
210.	Umpire 4 life                   980.1	969	11.1	(207)
211.	Those 1st few weeks hurt!       980.0	925	55.9	(210)
212.	Outlaws                         975.0	920	164.9	(212)
213.	400 Hurricane                   973.1	941	32.1	(223)
214.	Frack Attack                    972.3	945	27.3	(219)
215.	Believe it or dont              970.1	949	21.1	(215)
216.	Todd's Turkeys                  967.9	966	1.9	(219)
217.	Thundering Herd                 966.0	911	163.6	(214)
218.	Knee Injuries                   965.4	955	10.4	(217)
219.	The 200 Club                    962.8	956	6.8	(213)
220.	fred mckim                      962.0	907	93.0	(222)
221.	Crazy Euros                     961.9	944	17.9	(218)
222.	Creeping Death                  959.3	938	21.3	(216)
223.	Ryan's Renegades                956.9	906	50.9	(221)
224.	pig vomit                       953.3	952	1.3	(224)
225.	Ice Strykers                    952.0	897	105.4	(225)
	dayton bomber                   952.0	952	0.0	(228)
227.	CDN Stuck in Alabama            951.3	941	10.3	(227)
228.	Fighting Geordies               950.0	895	141.6	(226)
229.	Cafall and Crew                 947.3	909	38.3	(229)
230.	Ship's Way                      942.7	934	8.7	(235)
231.	Zipper Heads                    941.9	908	33.9	(232)
232.	Chris of Death                  941.0	886	83.6	(230)
233.	Banko's Beer Rangers            940.2	936	4.2	(232)
234.	Swillbellies                    939.7	921	18.7	(231)
235.	Oz                              934.0	899	35.0	(237)
236.	Laubsters II                    931.0	876	201.6	(236)
237.	Ninja Bunnies                   928.9	884	44.9	(239)
238.	Great Scott                     928.0	873	73.3	(240)
239.	Joliet Inmates                  927.8	882	45.8	(238)
240.	NY Flames                       923.8	916	7.8	(234)
241.	SANDY'S SABRES                  917.7	913	4.7	(243)
242.	Widefield White Wolves          910.9	874	36.9	(241)
243.	Florida Tech Burgh Team         909.3	860	49.3	(246)
244.	The Ice Holes                   908.7	906	2.7	(242)
245.	South Carolina Tiger Paws       903.0	848	78.4	(245)
	Daves Team                      903.0	871	32.0	(244)
247.	Mudville Kings                  900.6	873	27.6	(250)
248.	Redliners                       898.9	883	15.9	(252)
249.	roadrunners                     898.5	880	18.5	(249)
250.	For xtc                         898.2	890	8.2	(248)
251.	Leos Blue Chips                 894.4	884	10.4	(247)
252.	New Jersey Rob                  891.7	891	0.7	(251)
253.	Pat Phillips                    891.1	881	10.1	(253)
254.	Stewart Clamen                  869.6	868	1.6	(254)
255.	Demon Spawn                     868.0	843	25.0	(255)
256.	Sunnyvale Storm                 815.2	815	0.2	(256)
257.	Allez les Blues                 803.0	748	476.9	(257)
258.	Up For Sale Hockey Club         785.0	762	23.0	(258)
259.	Petes Picks                     783.0	728	168.5	(259)
260.	RINACO                          780.0	725	114.0	(260)
261.	Brenz Revenge                   705.0	701	4.0	(261)
262.	Dinamo Riga                     658.0	603	571.6	(262)
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation     | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253


((fluffy bi fantasy squelched))

Dear Mr. Elf,


	The only problem is, Dave Kingman was *always* taking off.
Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, Easter, the day Elvis died (8/16), the entire
spring training month of Ramadan, Purim, the 4th of July (both games
that day), my birthday (OK, during the World Series, he never had to
play there), Memorial day (both games that day), ...
	Guys, help me out here.  I've run fresh out of holidays that
coincide with the baseball season and I'm trying to catalogue all the
days in his career that Dave Kingman (or at least his bat) went AWOL.
	A complete religious calendar detailing every holiday in every
extant religion in the Western Hemisphere would be appreciated.  Only
then can we truly be certain that Dave Kingman observed every holiday
ever conceived...
	:-), of course ...NOT!


I don't see how this logically follows.  True enough, Mary received a blessing
beyond any granted in all the history of humanity by being privileged to be
the mother of the Savior.  It says nothing about Mary needing to be a "blessed
person" _first_ in order that she might thereby be worthy to bear the Son of
God.  Again, I think the problem is that as humans we can't comprehend how the
sinless Incarnation could spring from sinful human flesh and God's Spirit.
Rather than simply accept the gracious miracle of God, we must needs try
to dope out a mechanism or rationale as to how this could be.  Mary's own
words,

"...my spirit rejoices in God _my Savior_, for he has regarded the low
 estate of his handmaiden,..."

sound like the words of a human aware of her own humanity, in need of a
Savior, similar to what David proclaimed in his psalms...not the words
of a holy being with no further need for God's grace.

I really apologize for harping on this, I don't suppose it's important.
It's just that I see Mary and Joseph and the Baby reduced to placid,
serene figurines I feel we lose the wonder in the fact that God chose
to come down to you and I, to be born of people like you and I, to share
our existence and redeem us from it's fallenness by his holy Incarnation.


franks> This is my first post, so no DoD#.

Would you like to know what DOD is?  If you do, feel free to ask.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That's funny, I thought you were making a statement about what
people think.    In fact, I see it quoted up there.


Howdy...  I think you would be interested in Infini-D 2.5 for the Mac.  There
is no DOS or Windows version.  It's quite an amazing program.

"Some" of the features:

*  Bevel Text
*  Timeline based animation sequencer
*  Realtime bounding box preview
*  Object linking
*  Phong Shading
*  Ray Tracing
*  Bounding Box shading
*  Wireframe shading
*  Ghourad shading
*  Flat shading
*  Anti-aliasing (none, low, medium, high)
*  Environment maps
*  Quicktime support (wrap a QT movie around an object)
*  Procedural surfaces
*  Composed surfaces (for layering surfaces)
*  Alpha channel support
*  Import EPS, DXF, and Swivel 3D files
*  Export DXF and Swivel 3D files
*  Spline based animation
*  Animation assistant (for creating smooth movements and other stuff)
*  Object morphing (surfaces and bevels morph too)

... And lots more that I can't remember right now...

Anyway, it's not as expensive as some of the other animation/rendering
packages.  I think you can get it for around $699 from MacWarehouse.
They also have educational discounts...

Well, hope that helps a bit.

See ya...


Nonsense! I've taught fifth, sixth, seventh . There are a few early puberty
types in fifth and it has nothing to do with early sexual experience.


If you can modify the design of the DTMF decoder, the ideal comunications
would be over a multi-drop system, like RS-485.  RS-485 boards are available
for PC's, probably cheaper than a bunch of RS-232 channels, and RS-485 is
cheaper to build onto your satellite modules, using only a single supply
8-pin DIP driver chip.  Software at the PC end would be similarly complex
for either RS-232 or RS-485, in my opinion.  The higher data rates possible
with RS-485 would permit quasi-simultaneous data transmission.
Hope this helps.


A map of Italy showing the states/provinces(?) is in the FreeHand
3.1 for Windows clip art collection. Corel Draw 3.0 clip art has
an outline map of Italy.


Look for Spice or PSpice