From mcquesten at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 01:48:12 2017
From: mcquesten at gmail.com (Paul McQuesten)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:48:12 -0500
Subject: [Rd] Natural vs National in R signon banner?
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Actually, I do agree with you about Microsoft.
But they have so many users that their terminology should not be ignored.

Here are a few more views:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/ssw_aix_71/com.ibm.aix.performance/natl_lang_supp_locale_speed.htm
https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E23824_01/html/E26033/glmbx.html
http://support.sas.com/documentation/cdl/en/nlsref/69741/HTML/default/viewer.htm#n1n9bwctsthuqbn1xgipyw5xwujl.htm
https://docs.intersystems.com/latest/csp/docbook/DocBook.UI.Page.cls?KEY=GSA_config_nls
https://sites.ualberta.ca/dept/chemeng/AIX-43/share/man/info/C/a_doc_lib/aixprggd/genprogc/nls.htm
http://scc.ustc.edu.cn/zlsc/tc4600/intel/2017.0.098/compiler_f/common/core/GUID-1AEC889E-98A7-4A7D-91B3-865C476F603D.html

It does appear, however, that what I call 'National Language' is often
referred to as 'Native Language'. And the 'National Language' terminology
is said to not be used consistently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_language

I do still feel, however, that claiming 'Natural Language' support in R
sets expectations of new users overly high.

Thank you for spending so much time on such a minor nit.

Regards



On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 31/08/2017 6:37 PM, Paul McQuesten wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Duncan. But if it is not inappropriate, I feel empowered to argue.
>>
>> According to this definition, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> Natural_language:
>>       In neuropsychology, linguistics and the philosophy of language, a
>> natural language or ordinary language is any language that has evolved
>> naturally in humans ...
>>
>> Thus this banner statement may appear over-claiming to a significant
>> fraction of R users.
>>
>> It seems that LOCALE is called 'National language' support in other
>> software systems.
>> Eg: https://www.microsoft.com/resources/msdn/goglobal/default.mspx
>>
>
> I wouldn't take Microsoft as an authority on this (or much of anything).
> They really are amazingly incompetent, considering how much money they earn.
>
> Duncan Murdoch
>
>
>> And, yes, this is a low priority issue. All of you have better things to
>> do.
>>
>> R is an extremely powerful and comprehensive software system.
>> Thank you all for that.
>> And I would like to clean one gnat from the windshield.
>>
>> I just wax pedantic at times.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 5:13 PM, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com
>> <mailto:murdoch.duncan at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 31/08/2017 5:38 PM, Paul McQuesten wrote:
>>
>>         The R signon banner includes this statement:
>>                Natural language support but running in an English locale
>>
>>         Should that not say 'National' instead of 'Natural'?
>>         Meaning that LOCALE support is enabled, not that the interface
>>         understands
>>         human language?
>>
>>
>>     No, "natural language" refers to human languages, but it doesn't
>>     imply that R understands them.  NLS just means that messages may be
>>     presented in (or translated to) other human languages in an
>>     appropriate context.
>>
>>     For example, you can start R on most platforms from the console using
>>
>>     LANGUAGE=de R
>>
>>     and instead of the start message you saw, you'll see
>>
>>     R ist freie Software und kommt OHNE JEGLICHE GARANTIE.
>>     Sie sind eingeladen, es unter bestimmten Bedingungen weiter zu
>>     verbreiten.
>>     Tippen Sie 'license()' or 'licence()' f?r Details dazu.
>>
>>     and so on.
>>
>>         Please ignore this and forgive me if this is an inappropriate
>>         post. I am a
>>         N00B in R.
>>
>>
>>     I don't think it is inappropriate.
>>
>>     Duncan Murdoch
>>
>>
>>
>

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[Rd] Natural vs National in R signon banner?
Paul McQuesten