From friedrich.leisch at stat.uni-muenchen.de  Wed Aug 30 14:04:53 2006
From: friedrich.leisch at stat.uni-muenchen.de (friedrich.leisch at stat.uni-muenchen.de)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:04:53 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Rd] 'CanMakeUseOf' field
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>>>>>> "FrL" == friedrich leisch <friedrich.leisch at stat.uni-muenchen.de>
>>>>>>     on Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:34:13 +0200 (MEST) writes:
>
>     >> Duncan Murdoch <murdoch at stats.uwo.ca> writes:
>     >>> I think we need an option to R CMD check rather than a new field
> in the
>     >>> DESCRIPTION.  Currently a package could be mentioned for any of
> these
>     >>> reasons:
>     >>>
>     >>> 1.  To make functions, examples or vignettes work
>     >>> 2.  To allow optional functionality in functions, examples or
> vignettes.
>     >>> 3.  Because it contains complementary functions.
>     >>>
>     >>> I don't think we really need to worry about 3:  it should be
> contained
>     >>> in 1 or 2, if reasonably complete examples are given.
>     >>>
>     >>> Case 1 is handled by Depends.
>     >>
>     >> I think there is an important distinction between a dependency
> needed
>     >> for the package to function and a dependency needed to demonstrate
>     >> said functionality via an example or vignette.  The former is what
>     >> Depends is about, the latter is something else (Suggests).
>
>     FrL> Sorry to join in late, I am at the Compstat conference and have
> limited
>     FrL> email access. What Seth describes in the above paragraph is
> exactly what I
>     FrL> had in mind when splitting the single Depends field we had into
> Depends
>     FrL> and Suggests: Depends are a necessity to run the package,
> Suggests is nice
>     FrL> to have but not necessary. If you know how to use a package you
> may the
>     FrL> decide not to install a package that is only suggested, but
>
>     FrL> * may not be interested to execute the examples,
>     FrL> * know that you never need the extra functionality
>     FrL> * ...
>
>     FrL> so it should not be auto-installed unless you ask for
>     FrL> it (the default could also be the other way round, the
>     FrL> point is that it should be possible to have package foo
>     FrL> but not the packages it only suggests). On CRAN we
>     FrL> check with all suggestions to test all bits and pieces,
>     FrL> having an option in R CMD check to test only with
>     FrL> suggests may be nice, if there is use for it.
>
> Yes.
> However, I see two (related) problems with the current 'Suggests'
> and that's why I opened this thread proposing to have a
> (what I now would want to simply call)  'canUse' :
>
> 1) For 'R CMD check' (and hence CRAN checking),
>    Packages in 'Suggests' must be require()able, and
>    hence all testing only happens *with* the suggested packages
>    being there, and not without.
>
> 2) "Suggests"  suggests to the human reader of DESCRIPTION that
>    the package authors suggest to also install the packages listed
>    there.
>    Now there are cases, I (as package author) want to show some
>    stuff, or even provide compatibility functionality for some
>    packages that are related to mine, but which I really do not
> ``suggest''
>    to also be installed, e.g., because the other packages do
>    similar stuff as mine, but I believe my package to be
>    superior.  In such a case, I may, e.g., want to provide
>    functions for porting the other package classes to my package's.
>
> Duncan Murdoch has proposed to take care of "1)" by
> still only use 'Suggests' but adding another option to 'R CMD
> check', let's say   --no-suggests  which would run all the
> checks without having the suggested packages available
> --- something not quite easy to implement, BTW:
> Imagine the typical windows users who (AFAICS) always only use
> one library into which they install all packages.
> How do you want the
>     if( require(<my_suggested_package>) ) {
>        ...
>     }
> clause *not* to be triggered in such a case ?
> I do agree quite a bit that such a '--no-suggests' option would
> be very useful for 'R CMD check' -- in addition to my proposal.
>
> Further, I think "2)" above is not taken care of anyway.
> After all the interesting statements and alternative proposals,
> I'm still proposing to introduce a  'canUse'  field for DESCRIPTION
> which
>   a) has a "human-readable intent" of being weaker than 'Suggests'
>   b) will not require its packages to be available for R CMD check
>   c) conveys extra information about the package's context, to humans, and
>   d) will potentially be used in automated or semi-manual
>      ``R package database management''
>

Sorry, I did not want to give the impression of ignoring your proposal,
but wanted to clarify the ratio behid what we currently have first and
then ran out of time. I agree that a new field like you describe above can
be very usefull, the only thing I worry about is if it makes life really
easier or if it confuses users and developers even more.

Debian has Depends/Recommends/Suggests and after 10 years of using Debian
I would still have to got to the Debian guidelines to learn what the exact
difference between the latter two is. There certainly is a distinction,
and I knew it at some point in time, but when I read a package description
now I always condense it to needed/optional in my brain ... hence I went
for a two-layer model in R.

Fritz

PS: I would have immediate use for canUse, because flexclust "suggests"
cluster only because it has coercion methods for converting to flexclust
objects ... canUse certainly would describe better what is going on.




[Rd] 'CanMakeUseOf' field
friedrich.leisch at stat.uni-muenchen.de