From j|r|@c@mor@vec @end|ng |rom gm@||@com  Sun Dec  8 22:00:19 2024
From: j|r|@c@mor@vec @end|ng |rom gm@||@com (=?UTF-8?B?SmnFmcOtIE1vcmF2ZWM=?=)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2024 10:00:19 +1300
Subject: [Rd] Exposing native httpd server
In-Reply-To: <00b75e24-a9bd-4c59-acf7-34e10df22247@gmail.com>
References: <a7cada24-51e9-4e48-8977-07b913fb40ff@gmail.com>
 <AEAEAAF0-9D88-4392-9085-E5E3F88F0911@R-project.org>
 <9144f007-bc39-4955-8001-cd21e36ea254@gmail.com>
 <00b75e24-a9bd-4c59-acf7-34e10df22247@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54938322-78ef-4763-bd80-01de6b71a63b@gmail.com>

Hi Ben,

yes, in this particular case, I am moving from `rmarkdown` and `servr` 
to `litedown` and (internal http server), which will remove 30 dependencies.

```

base = utils::installed.packages(priority = "base") |> rownames()
litedown = tools::package_dependencies("litedown", recursive = TRUE)

setdiff(
 ? tools::package_dependencies(c("rmarkdown" , "servr"), recursive = 
TRUE) |> unlist(),
 ? c(base, litedown)
 ? ) |> length()
```

I will check the Rserve. It is described as socket server and I didn't 
get into reading into sockets yet, so I didn't look deeper.

-- Jirka

On 9/12/24 09:19, Ben Bolker wrote:
> ? I absolutely appreciate the desire for minimalism.? On the other 
> hand Rserve has no dependencies other than R >= 1.5.0 (!!!), so you 
> would in any case be cutting your dependencies way down (`servr` has 
> 16 recursive dependencies of which 5 seem to be base/recommended, 
> presumably this is where your count of 12 came from; `Rserve` has none).
>
> On 12/8/24 14:57, Ji?? Moravec wrote:
>> Dear Simon and Jeroen,
>>
>> thank you for your answers. I have to reiterate that I am out of my 
>> depth in here. My knowledge of http is clicking links and not much 
>> beyond that.
>>
>> I will definitely look into `webutils` and `Rserve`.
>>
>> One of the reason why I brought this issue is that I have a static 
>> site generator that uses the pkg `servr` to serve the static site 
>> locally, before I push it to github pages.
>> This allowed me to remove some 12 dependencies.
>> For this, the internal R webserver seems to be completely sufficient 
>> and I thought that it would be nice to have this functionality 
>> without it being "illegal" (i.e., replacing internal function)
>> and possibly documented so that the limitations are clear.
>>
>> As for the limitations, IMHO when implemented as I did 
>> (Sys.sleep(Inf), setting path, and reset on exit), it behaves like 
>> most shiny apps I saw, or many apps in general.
>> So when I think about it as kind of user interface within browser 
>> instead of written in something like tcl/tk instead of a part of 
>> internet infrastructure, it feels quite sufficient to me.
>>
>> Lately, I have been quite minimalist and I found a great joy finding 
>> that base is quite bit more powerful than people often think so, so I 
>> am quite happy finding out that the internal R server is fully 
>> sufficient for me,
>> but can't speak for other people and their intended use.
>>
>> So we can leave it at that. Maybe in few more years when I am more 
>> familiar with web architecture and R internals, I can make a better 
>> argument, hopefully followed with some rad code.
>>
>> -- Jirka
>>
>> On 6/12/24 20:05, Simon Urbanek wrote:
>>
>>> Ji??,
>>>
>>> in a sense there are two quite different issue that you are touching 
>>> upon. On one hand, your request for exposing the http server is 
>>> something I was pretty much expecting. In order to judge the 
>>> appetite for it I have included the support for custom handlers back 
>>> then as inofficial API specifically so that if anyone cares we could 
>>> work on refining it (really only Jeff and Hadley ever asked and/or 
>>> provided feedback). But I would argue over time it became more clear 
>>> that it's probably not the way to go.
>>>
>>> The real problem is that we don't really want to "just" expose the 
>>> server because of the implications that you mentioned indirectly: 
>>> the server is deliberately run in the current R session - which is 
>>> pretty much exactly what we want for the help system, but it is 
>>> something that is in most cases undesirable for several reasons. 
>>> Firstly, normal R user does not expect http requests to mess with 
>>> their analysis (e.g. changing the working directory would certainly 
>>> not be welcome), so we don't want random code to execute and 
>>> interfere with user's work. Secondly, http services are usually 
>>> expected to be scalable and not interfere with each other - which is 
>>> not possible directly here with the server as-is since it is fully 
>>> serial within the user's session. What is truly desired strongly 
>>> depends on the use-case: some applications would prefer a forked 
>>> session for each connection, other may want co-operation in a 
>>> separate environment. It is all doable, but beyond the scope of R's 
>>> internal http server.
>>>
>>> Moreover the internal http server is based on the Rserve package and 
>>> you always have much larger flexibility there. There are also higher 
>>> level abstractions like RestRserve. So if you like the internal 
>>> server then you can seamlessly use Rserve as the API was derived 
>>> from there. Of course there are other alternatives in package space 
>>> like httpuv. We typically don't want to fold things into core R 
>>> unless it's absolutely necessary - i.e., if they can happily live in 
>>> package space.
>>>
>>> In short, I'm still not convinced that you really want to use the 
>>> built-in sever. Although it is a fully featured http server, it was 
>>> included for a very specific purpose, and it's not clear that it 
>>> would be a good fit for other purposes.
>>>
>>> That said, I'm interested in ideas about what users would want to 
>>> use it for. There may be use-cases which do fit the design so we 
>>> could make it happen. I would recommend looking at Rserve first, 
>>> because anything implemented there is trivial to add to R (as it is 
>>> the same code base) if it would make sense. So I'm open to 
>>> suggestions, but they should be centered around what cannot be done 
>>> already.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Simon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 5, 2024, at 2:43 PM, Ji?? Moravec <jiri.c.moravec at gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> R has a native HTTP server that is used for serving R help pages 
>>>> interactively, at least on the loopback device (127.0.0.1)
>>>>
>>>> But all of the working are internal, not exposed to user and not 
>>>> documented.
>>>> This is quite shame since the server seems to be fully capable of 
>>>> handling basic tasks,
>>>> be it serving static websites or even interactively processing 
>>>> queries.
>>>>
>>>> This was previously noticed by Jeffry Horner, the author of the 
>>>> Rook package.
>>>> I am just a guy who found it interesting.
>>>>
>>>> The basic working is as follows:
>>>> User needs to either overwrite the internal `tools:::httpd` 
>>>> function or add their hook into the internal environment 
>>>> tools:::.httpd.handlers.env.
>>>>
>>>> In the former case, the user will be of a full control of the 
>>>> server, in the later case, the `app` will be hooked to 
>>>> `/custom/app` instead.
>>>> All that is needed then is to run the interactive help that starts 
>>>> the webserver.
>>>>
>>>> Based on the breadcrumbs left on the way, I was able to write a 
>>>> server that emulates much more complex `servr` package that I have 
>>>> previously used to test locally my blog.
>>>>
>>>> https://gist.github.com/J-Moravec/497d71f4a4b7a204235d093b3fa69cc3
>>>>
>>>> You can see that I am forced to do some illegal procedures:
>>>> ? * tools:::httpd needs to be replaced
>>>> ? * the server doesn't have knowledge of a directory so setwd needs 
>>>> to be set
>>>> ? * the function must not end, otherwise the directory is changed 
>>>> during the server lifetime (and depends on the current working 
>>>> directory)
>>>>
>>>> I would like to suggest and probe for willingness to expose the 
>>>> native http server.
>>>> This would include:
>>>>
>>>> * de-hardcoding the server so that we can register other functions 
>>>> not just httpd
>>>> * exporting many functions and renaming them (such as mime_type)
>>>> * writing better interfaces, `startDynamicHelp` is kind of hard to 
>>>> work with, something like httpd_start(dir, fun, port), 
>>>> httpd_stop(port) and httpd_status(port) would be much cleaner.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to say that I have no idea what I am doing, I don't 
>>>> understand webtech or the internal implementation, so if there are 
>>>> reasons why this isn't a great idea...
>>>>
>>>> I am happy to make a PR for the R part. https://github.com/wch/r- 
>>>> source/blob/trunk/src/library/tools/R/dynamicHelp.R
>>>> The C part with the R's C internals look to me like a black magic 
>>>> and I don't feel confident enough. 
>>>> https://github.com/wch/r-source/blob/ 
>>>> trunk/src/modules/internet/Rhttpd.c
>>>>
>>>> See this old stackoverflow answer, where someone was looking for 
>>>> `python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080`
>>>>
>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/q/12636764/4868692
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> R-devel at r-project.org mailing list
>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> R-devel at r-project.org mailing list
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>



[Rd] Exposing native httpd server
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