From apps.embedded at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 13:18:40 2014
From: apps.embedded at gmail.com (Apps Embedded)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 13:18:40 +0100
Subject: [Rd] R on the Cydia Store
In-Reply-To: <548821B1.5060107@braverock.com>
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	<6E3F8BD3-FD1C-4A78-84E6-E17FD1381190@me.com>
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	<0F09E623-6430-49AE-91A4-1AEF81411EEA@me.com>
	<CAO=GJvyUjzT3+EGHqGQPwfmW_JOmUQE2uy=5ppEqmqBzgw00Pg@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAO=GJvyOp2f0YkipDF=44DBE7_X0v1kciVn7Wui_4MaRAq=ySA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks for your remarks.
We have sent an e-mail to the R-foundation at R-project.org this morning to
introduce ourself and our work to the R foundation.

>From your advices, we are going to :
- create an open source git repository for this whole project instead of
giving a source tarball
- contact the Software Freedom Conservancy for :
    - the licencing validation
    - the trademark point of view
    - the copyright remark
- limit our work to the Android Play Store.

Best regards.

Apps Embedded Team.



2014-12-10 11:34 GMT+01:00 Brian G. Peterson <brian at braverock.com>:

> In the event that a lawyer is consulted, I would suggest finding one with
> real experience in open source law.  In my experience, even most
> intellectual property or software attorneys have little to no experience
> with open source law, and I've heard the most dreadful and incorrect
> utterances from them on the topic of open source licenses.
>
> Duncan is correct that parts of R may be incompatible with GPL-3, and that
> is a matter for an attorney.
>
> I installed the premium version of the Android application this morning.
>
> It appears to contain the required license statement (though whether that
> license is valid I cannot say, as discussed in this thread).  It also
> contains a link to:
>
> https://code.google.com/p/rconsoleapp/
>
> The development team is not listed here either, just 'Apps Embedded' and
> more similar redirection.  If these are legal entities, and proper
> copyright assignments have been done for the 'app collection', this may be
> fine, but it is rather outside the spirit of most open source projects.
>
> The code is also not actually available at the link above.  What is
> available is an external link to Google Drive, where a 34 MB tarball of
> different tarballs exists, in a single archive.  Again, consistent with
> most open source projects, perhaps one of the several source code
> management tools provided by code.google.com could be used to create a
> source code repository which could be accessed by other open source
> developers, and examined more easily than the tarball.
>
> It's not clear that anything obvious has been done outside the letter of
> the GPL.  It is also not clear than any improper use has been made of R
> Foundation trademarks (such as the R logo).
>
> If a lawyer is consulted, one way to find  such a lawyer would be to start
> with someone at the Software Freedom Conservancy:
>
> https://sfconservancy.org/
>
> They have contacts with attorneys with experience in GPL licensing and
> commercialization, in multiple countries.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian
>
> On 12/09/2014 06:31 PM, Marc Schwartz wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would send an introductory e-mail to:
>>
>>    R-foundation at R-project.org <mailto:R-foundation at R-project.org>
>>
>> That will facilitate further discussion on the matter and additional
>> details can be requested offline as may be needed.
>>
>> Be aware that none of the R Foundation members are lawyers. So while we
>> can perhaps offer informal and non-binding opinions, you should seek formal
>> legal guidance from counsel specifically familiar with open source
>> licensing regarding your obligations in that domain.
>>
>> Finally, it would be helpful and courteous to know at least a primary
>> contact full name for your group, as opposed to the Team moniker.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Marc
>>
>>
>>  On Dec 9, 2014, at 5:39 PM, Apps Embedded <apps.embedded at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your first answers.
>>>
>>> So, should we contact the R foundation team members to inform them of
>>> our project on the Android platform and on the Cydia Store ?
>>> If yes, could you give us their email please ? Or should we write to the
>>> president of the R foundation for instance ?
>>>
>>> Best regards.
>>>
>>> Apps Embedded Team.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-12-09 23:49 GMT+01:00 Marc Schwartz <marc_schwartz at me.com <mailto:
>>> marc_schwartz at me.com>>:
>>>
>>>  On Dec 9, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:murdoch.duncan at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 09/12/2014, 4:26 PM, Marc Schwartz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Dec 9, 2014, at 10:44 AM, Henrik Bengtsson <hb at biostat.ucsf.edu
>>>>>> <mailto:hb at biostat.ucsf.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 9, 2014 6:38 AM, "Apps Embedded" <apps.embedded at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:apps.embedded at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have published an Android app called R Console on the Play Store
>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>> D?cember 2013.
>>>>>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appsopensource.R <
>>>>>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appsopensource.R>
>>>>>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.
>>>>>>> appsopensource.Rpremium <https://play.google.com/
>>>>>>> store/apps/details?id=com.appsopensource.Rpremium>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the mean time, we have developped its equivalent app for the App
>>>>>>> Store.
>>>>>>> We released it on march 2014. We have been approved from this date
>>>>>>> by Apple
>>>>>>> to publish it world wide.
>>>>>>> Recently, we learnt that GPL app are not compatible with the App
>>>>>>> Store
>>>>>>> distribution licence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I would like to write here, would fall under "this is certainly
>>>>>> not a topic for R devel", so I refrain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, I can say that it's likely your problems wouldn't have
>>>>>> stopped there;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [R] R on the iPhone/iPad? Not so much....a GPL violation
>>>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2010-June/240901.html <
>>>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2010-June/240901.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /Henrik
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I might add that, given the intentions expressed below, in terms of
>>>>> doing this on a jailbroken iOS device via Cydia, the concerns raised in the
>>>>> Apple iOS SDK, that I referenced in the above linked post from 2010,
>>>>> essentially go away.
>>>>>
>>>>> They would still be germane, as may now be expressed in the current
>>>>> SDK, including the use of the new Swift language, if the OP's intent was to
>>>>> pursue this via official AppStore channels and am surprised that it was
>>>>> approved by Apple previously given the indicated content and functionality
>>>>> of the app.
>>>>>
>>>>> The primary intention of jailbreaking an iOS device is, of course, to
>>>>> circumvent Apple's restrictions on the software that can be installed by
>>>>> using third party distribution channels and in the tools that can be used
>>>>> to develop apps.
>>>>>
>>>>> That being said, the licensing issues, as Duncan raised in his reply,
>>>>> are still germane and permission from the R Foundation should be sought for
>>>>> any uses involving R Foundation copyrighted content. That would be relevant
>>>>> for both the iOS implementation and the Android implementation.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just to be clear:  everybody already has permission from the R copyright
>>>> holders to use R within the existing licenses.  There's no need to seek
>>>> extra permission for that.
>>>>
>>>> Trademarks are different...
>>>>
>>>> Duncan Murdoch
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the clarification Duncan, I was imprecise in my language.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>  Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Schwartz
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. I echo's Duncan's comment, in that I am also a member of the R
>>>>> Foundation, but am not speaking here on it's behalf.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thus we decided to remove the iOS app from the App Store several
>>>>>>> days ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are thinking of publishing the same app published under Cydia
>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>> freemium model.
>>>>>>> Its licence would be GPL v3.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What we would like to do under Cydia with R Console is to have the
>>>>>>> following behavior :
>>>>>>> - free version will be able to run recommended packages and graphics
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> not enabled. A small ad banner is present on top of the app.
>>>>>>> - premium version will be the same as the free version except the ad
>>>>>>> banner
>>>>>>> will not be present anymore and 3 compilers will be integrated into
>>>>>>> the app
>>>>>>> in order to be able to compile and run most of the Cran packages from
>>>>>>> source.
>>>>>>> - graphics may be added in a second step.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The app will be considered as a bundle of open-source tools. This
>>>>>>> bundle
>>>>>>> will be under the Gnu General Public Licence version 3. Each
>>>>>>> open-source
>>>>>>> tool which contributes to the overall bundle will stay in its
>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>> licence (R is GPL v2 for instance) but the bundle will be GPL v3.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   From your point of view, do you see any legal issue with this
>>>>>>>> project under
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cydia for jailbroken iOS devices?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  From a trademark point of view, is the name of the apps "R Console
>>>>>>>> Free"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and "R Console Premium" ok ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for your help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apps Embedded Team.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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[Rd] R on the Cydia Store
Apps Embedded