From ripley at stats.ox.ac.uk  Sat Aug  3 19:06:08 2013
From: ripley at stats.ox.ac.uk (Prof Brian Ripley)
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 18:06:08 +0100
Subject: [Rd] [R] Internalization of help pages
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Message-ID: <51FD3880.6070506@stats.ox.ac.uk>

This was an R-devel topic, and I have moved it where it belongs.  See 
the posting guide.

On 03/08/2013 08:34, Tom?? Greif wrote:
> Bert,
>
> thank you for your response.
>
> I understand this would be huge task. My idea is:
>
> 1. Translation of help files is optional, driven by demand. This way (as I
> believe) core packages will get translated first, followed by some other
> CRAN packages. I don't expect that every page is translated.

It is not just a question of translating, but keeping translations up to 
date.  Even for messages, the latter is an issue.

>
> 2. Use collaborative open-source tools for translation. For example crowdin
> is online translation tool free for open-source projects. Alternatively,
> wiki can be used for translation (it would be however necessary to program
> link to upload original translation and download translations back)
>
> 3. When browsing help, file based on user's locale will be displayed (if
> exists) with failover to default (English).

You had better check the version that was translated, and that is not 
currently recorded in the file.

> I agree with you that translation has to be exact. However, I believe that
> users can benefit more from slightly inexact documentation written in their
> first language than from exact documentation in language they do not
> understand well.

That is a matter of opinion: many people have the opposite opinion.

> Any idea how to create proof of concept for this? I guess this would
> require attention from someone from r-core team.

Not so.  R is Open Source: just go ahead and do it.  You can contribute 
patches via bugs.r-project.org.   But note that this would not get 
released under R 3.1.0 ca Mar 2014, so there is plenty of time to iron 
this out and submit a fully working solution.

Another small issue is size.  For R itself the 'English' (mostly 
American) help pages are about 10MB installed.  Adding help pages for, 
say, the 15 languages for which we have translated messages would 
increase the size of R about 2.5x.

>
> Regards,
>
> Tomas
>
>
> On 3 August 2013 01:39, Bert Gunter <gunter.berton at gene.com> wrote:
>
>> Tom????
>>
>> 1.  Your concern is valid, especially now that R has become so widely
>> used throughout the world. But language translation is hard.
>>
>> 2. Warning and error messages are short, and relatively trivial to
>> translate.
>>
>> 3. There are tens of thousands of Help pages in thousands of packages,
>> most separately maintained.
>>
>> I would guess that the best option would be to try to run the files
>> through a mature, open source translator, if such exists. However, I'm
>> ignorant of such matters. And my understanding is that at present,
>> even the best may not be adequate (Help files have to accurate in
>> exact detail).
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Bert
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Tom???? Greif
>> <tomas.greif at collectionspro.eu> wrote:
>>> Is it possible to translate help files? I see there are some localization
>>> options for GUI, but not for help. I think this would be really helpful
>> for
>>> users who don't have English as their primary language.
>>>
>>> Because all the online help is created from text files, it should be not
>>> that difficult to maintain different language versions (e.g. to mark them
>>> as not valid when primary documentation in English changes).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Tomas Greif
>>>
>>>          [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Bert Gunter
>> Genentech Nonclinical Biostatistics
>>
>> Internal Contact Info:
>> Phone: 467-7374
>> Website:
>>
>> http://pharmadevelopment.roche.com/index/pdb/pdb-functional-groups/pdb-biostatistics/pdb-ncb-home.htm
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>>
>
> 	[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>


-- 
Brian D. Ripley,                  ripley at stats.ox.ac.uk
Professor of Applied Statistics,  http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/
University of Oxford,             Tel:  +44 1865 272861 (self)
1 South Parks Road,                     +44 1865 272866 (PA)
Oxford OX1 3TG, UK                Fax:  +44 1865 272595



[Rd] [R] Internalization of help pages
Prof Brian Ripley