From David.Bateman at motorola.com  Thu Jun 26 17:18:07 2008
From: David.Bateman at motorola.com (David Bateman)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:18:07 +0200
Subject: [Rd] Issue with NA value and Octave compatibility
In-Reply-To: <484C2401.6010708@gmail.com>
References: <484C2401.6010708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4863B32F.5020600@motorola.com>

ping

David Bateman wrote:
> Dear R developers,
>
> I'm an Octave developer in the process of implementing a single
> precision type in Octave and I have an issue with the NA value. The
> choice of NA value in Octave was made a few years back so that the high
> word of the NA value was 0x7ff00000 and the low word was 0x000007A2 for
> compatibility with R and to ease any possible issue with the exchange of
> data files between Octave and R.
>
> However, now that I'm in the process of implementing the single
> precision type I have a problem with this choice for the NA value as the
> above when cast to a float results in the loss of the 0x7A2 value
> creating a positive Infinity in IEE754, and so conversion of the NA
> values between double and float with the above value does not work.
>
> I have several possible choices of how to treat this, but as the reason
> for the choice of Octave's NA value was made for compatibility with R,
> the choice I'll make might very well be determined by how the R
> developers react to any changes that Octave makes in this direction.
>
> I can't realistically wrap the double and float types in Octave and
> overload the assignment operators to handle the assignment of a float to
> a double and visa versa as this would completely replace the underlying
> data types in Octave. Its also impossible to trap everywhere where a
> double might be assigned to a float and special case NA values as there
> are just too many places that might occur.
>
> I'm therefore assuming that I have to replace Octave's internal
> representation of the NA value to allow easy conversion of the NA value
> between double and floats. This can be done by replacing the NA value
> with one that has zeros in the lower 19 bits of the mantissa of the
> double, so that the cast from a double to float and visa versa works
> correctly. For example using 0x7FF840F4 and 0x40000000 for the low and
> high word of the double NA value. and 0x7FC207A2 for the float NA value
> works. However then I have an issue of exchange of NA values with R and
> with older versions of Octave.
>
> Its easy enough to check for old NA values in files when reading and
> alter them to the new NA values. So forward compatibility with older
> versions of Octave and from R to Octave would be ok. However, the
> reverse is not true. Actually saving the with the old NA value is
> equally possible and would allow full compatible with older versions of
> Octave and with R. The downside is that there are many places I'd have
> to make a copy of the data when saving to allow this (for example saving
> to HDF files), and so I'd prefer not to have to do this if possible.
>
> As backwards compatibility is the smaller concern and self correcting
> with time, if R was to also accept the an additional possible NA value
> such as 0x7FF840F4/0x40000000, at least when loading files then
> compatibility of the NA value between Octave and R could be maintained
> and I wouldn't have to pay the penalty of making a copy of the data to
> treat the NA values. Would the R developers be willing to make such a
> change in R? If not I will maintain the R compatible NA value in
> Octave's output and pay the performance penalty within Octave for this.
>
> In any case if R intends at some point to support a single precision
> type you will come across the same issue.
>
> Regards
> David
>
>   


-- 
David Bateman                                David.Bateman at motorola.com
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Parc Les Algorithmes, Commune de St Aubin    +33 6 72 01 06 33 (Mob) 
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[Rd] Issue with NA value and Octave compatibility
David Bateman