From deleeuw@stat.ucla.edu  Mon Aug 19 17:13:51 2002
From: deleeuw@stat.ucla.edu (Jan de Leeuw)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 09:13:51 -0700
Subject: [Fwd: LispStat, R and ViSta  [was: Re: Status?]]
In-Reply-To: <6BCD49A9-B342-11D6-942F-000393937AC2@hsph.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <A664E33E-B38E-11D6-A6D6-000393860F3C@stat.ucla.edu>

Byron

I meant there is no native (Aqua) version of GTK yet (there is  
wxWindows and Qt and Tk, so
possibly GTK will follow). The X11 version of RGtk works for me too. I  
agree with your
diagnosis of the GUI problem.

Best -- Jan

On Monday, August 19, 2002, at 12:08 AM, Byron Ellis wrote:

>
> On Monday, August 19, 2002, at 12:09 AM, Jan de Leeuw wrote:
>>
>
> I accidentally snipped the section, but RGtk also works on Mac OS X  
> with minor changes (which I *will* write down some day Duncan. Honest  
> I will :-) They're mostly changes to linkage and one cpp assumption  
> that doesn't hold under gcc--I don't have/want MPW). This includes the  
> GtkHTML widget (if you install GNOME from Fink).
>
>> I really hated to give up Lisp (and many lines of existing code), and  
>> I  agree
>> that extensions such as Vista and Arc are major arguments in favor of
>> XLS, but it seems that XLS is best as an environment to develop
>> GUI statistics tools (hiding the lisp) and not as an environment to   
>> actually
>> do statistics. Vista and Arc are great for teaching, but raw XLS is  
>> not.
>> In that sense XLS is more like a specialized version of  one of the   
>> scripting
>> languages such as Ruby or Python or VB or Tcl/Tk.
>>
>> So basically, it would be great if the capability to write GUI   
>> statistics
>> packages on top of raw R would be part of R -- this includes dynamic
>> graphics, but it also includes a library of widgets. My feeling is  
>> that
>> the current possibilities (tcltk and RGtk) are too far removed from  
>> the
>> core of R.
>
> My personal feeling is that there are presently two (related)  
> problems: The GUI interfaces are too low level and (because of this)  
> building GUIs is neither easy enough for most nor portable enough in  
> the sense that you develop for a particular underlying GUI rather than  
> developing a GUI which is implemented using an underlying GUI---though  
> it occurs to me that this is maybe the same as being too far removed  
> from the core in that a specification of a GUI should perhaps exist  
> (though a particular implementation probably shouldn't---in the same  
> way, I suppose, that Java's AWT was a specification rather than a  
> particular implementation--that being up to the VM vendors of a  
> particular platform)
>
>>
>> ===
>> Jan de Leeuw; Professor and Chair, UCLA Department of Statistics;
>> US mail: 9432 Boelter Hall, Box 951554, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1554
>> phone (310)-825-9550;  fax (310)-206-5658;  email:  
>> deleeuw@stat.ucla.edu
>> homepage: http://gifi.stat.ucla.edu
>>    
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -- -------------------------
>>           No matter where you go, there you are. --- Buckaroo Banzai
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===
Jan de Leeuw; Professor and Chair, UCLA Department of Statistics;
US mail: 9432 Boelter Hall, Box 951554, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1554
phone (310)-825-9550;  fax (310)-206-5658;  email: deleeuw@stat.ucla.edu
homepage: http://gifi.stat.ucla.edu
   
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-------------------------
           No matter where you go, there you are. --- Buckaroo Banzai
                    http://gifi.stat.ucla.edu/sounds/nomatter.au
   
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[Fwd: LispStat, R and ViSta [was: Re: Status?]]
Jan de Leeuw