From ct529 at york.ac.uk  Mon Sep 28 11:44:06 2009
From: ct529 at york.ac.uk (Corrado)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:44:06 +0100
Subject: [Rd] Windows Laptop specification query
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0909280903260.22690@gannet.stats.ox.ac.uk>
References: <4AC03013.1030402@wehi.edu.au>
	<8ed68eed0909272330k744b89f4m1add09313c5728fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0909280903260.22690@gannet.stats.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200909281044.06278.ct529@york.ac.uk>

1) Would a package compiled for Windows 32bit run on Windows 64 bit and use 
the extended memory or not?

2) As for buying a performant laptop for R, I bought a Dell M6300 mobile 
workstation which is actually portable, and installed Kubuntu 904 64 bit 
alongside the standard windows installation. When I run R I only use it in 
Linux and access the data in Windows through the file system. If I need to run 
Office because some one else is sending me document to correct, I have installed 
Windows XP Pro SP3 in a virtual machine using Virtual Box, which runs very 
fairly on the M6300, and can switch it on and off whenever I need (booting on 
the virtual machine is matter of few seconds). This setup allows for running 
64 bit R on Linux (eventually compiled with -O3 -march=native by the way, if 
you feel like experimenting) which is more performant and used the memory more 
efficiently, without loosing the interacting with your windows based colleagues. 
The virtual machine can go full screen at the click of a mouse :D and it looks 
as if you were using a native Windows machine. You can install all software 
and network clients on the virtual machine. I have not booted Windows for ages 
.... I have been using this machine fort he last 18 months. The dual core 
works great (I chose the top processor to run simulations when I am not in the 
office), and in Linux you can control the CPU frequency. The new one which 
substitutes the M6300 is the M6400 and I would go for that possibly (Linux 
supported):

http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/business/Laptops/workstation-precision-m6400-
cov/pd.aspx?refid=workstation-precision-m6400-cov&s=bsd&cs=ukbsdt1


PS: I apologise for the question on memory management but I have never used R 
on Windows but some free spirit decided to release a package only for Windows 
and only pre compiled (no sources) and I need to use it to compare .... (Sorry 
for the harsh comment and the rant , but I am not sure it is really fair to 
use an open source packages and programming languages for you daily work and 
make money out of it, and the first time you release something you release it 
crappy and closed source .... even if it is legal and allowed of course .... :
( ....)

On Monday 28 September 2009 09:16:23 Prof Brian Ripley wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Sean O'Riordain wrote:
> > Good morning Keith,
> >
> > Have a look at
> > http://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rw-FAQ.html#There-seems-to-be-
> >a-limit-on-the-memory-it-uses_0021
> >
> > The short answer is that "it depends"...
> > a) memory is limited under windows
>
> Yes, but 64-bit builds can be used on Windows -- that needs commercial
> compilers and there are commercial vendors of such builds.
>
> Even with the CRAN binary, a 64-bit version of Windows offers double
> the memory over a (vanilla) 32-bit version.
>
> > b) R is essentially a serial program - HOWEVER it depends what you're
> > actually doing - if you're working with large matrices then there are
> > parallel versions of BLAS that can be used...  On a multi-core windows
> > machine with lots of memory you can of course run up multiple copies of R
> > and run each independently
>
> There are several packages that parallelize their computations with
> MPI etc, and others that help with parallelization (papply, foreach,
> gputools, ....).  And apart from Rmpi/rpvm/snow there is also
> 'multicore', but not on Windows.  See the R-sig-hpc list for follow up
> on such issues.
>
> As for Vista vs Windows 7, this is not the right list but Windows 7
> behaves just like a version of Vista as far as we have explored it
> (and the current rw-FAQ includes it and Server 2008 in the Vista
> section).
>
> Many of us have bought dual quad-core servers in the last year or so:
> that includes Uwe Ligges' winbuilder machine.  I suspect most of the
> usage is separate R jobs running simultaneously: certainly that is the
> case in my dept (where there are at least 6 8-core servers running R
> jobs).
>
> > Kind regards,
> > Sean
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Keith Satterley <keith at wehi.edu.au> 
wrote:
> >> I've read some postings back in 2002/2006 about running R on multiple
> >> core CPUs. The answer was basically separate processes work fine, but
> >> parallelization needs to be implemented using snow/rmpi. Are the answers
> >> still the same?
> >>
> >> I ask because we are about to order a laptop running Windows for a new
> >> staff member. Some advice on the following would be helpful.
> >> It will be ordered with Vista, with a free upgrade to Windows 7. It will
> >> have 8GB of memory
> >>
> >> A quad core CPU costs about AUD$1100 more than the fastest (Intel
> >> T9900-6M Cache, 3.06 GHz) dual core CPU.
> >> I'm wondering if there is value in ordering the quad core. We are
> >> looking at a time frame of 3-4 years.
> >>
> >> Is anyone aware of near future plans to implement some form or
> >> parallelization that would more or less be hidden from the normal user?
> >>
> >> It is anticipated that analysis of Next Gen sequence data will be
> >> important.
> >>
> >> I've read the Windows FAQ about running R under Vista. We will probably
> >> start with Vista. I've read some posts in R-devel indicating people are
> >> running R under Windows 7. Is it safe to assume that R will run under
> >> Windows 7 after it is released?
> >>
> >> We are hoping to make use the 8GB of memory. Am I right in assuming that
> >> when the 64 bit version of Windows 7 is available, it will allow R users
> >> to make good use of the 8GB of memory. Does this happen under the
> >> current higher end versions of 64 bit Vista?
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >>
> >> Keith
> >>
> >> ========================
> >> Keith Satterley
> >> Bioinformatics Division
> >> The Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research
> >> Parkville, Melbourne,
> >> Victoria, Australia
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> R-devel at r-project.org mailing list
> >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
> >
> > 	[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > R-devel at r-project.org mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel



-- 
Corrado Topi

Global Climate Change & Biodiversity Indicators
Area 18,Department of Biology
University of York, York, YO10 5YW, UK
Phone: + 44 (0) 1904 328645, E-mail: ct529 at york.ac.uk



[Rd] Windows Laptop specification query
Corrado