quote:Originally posted by M Batchelor:This headline is from an article from the Guardian, which claims evidence to be published in a Royal Society journal, shows that the current GW could not be caused by solar activity. It says that this is a direct response to debunk the idea of solar driven GW put forward by the programme - the Great Global Warming Swindle. anyone agree with this study - or are the paper's findings not potentially biased if, as the Guardian article states, it was "carried out...to directly challenge the claims made in the Channel 4 programme"?
quote:Originally posted by Mubbers:Sun comes up - temperature rises.Sun goes down - temperature drops.If there has been a variation in solar activity that matches our trend in climate then that's your answer.Simple. Anybody that disagrees with that or ignores its effect in favour of some convoluted CO2 theory is just stupid, masochistic or one of the many people benefiting financially from our new "fad".Ockams Razor:"All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."
quote: You'll need to explain that one to us. You seem to be saying that days are warmer than nights and summer is warmer than winter. I think we can agree with that, but what does it have to do with climate trends?
quote: There has been no solar variation that matches recent warming. There has, however been a CO2 increase that explains it very well indeed, and it is based in quite simple physics.
quote: Occam wouldn't use a razor as blunt and rusty as yours.
quote:Ockams Razor:"All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."
quote:1) It's hard to agree or disagree with a study that isn't out yet.
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quote:Originally posted by Geowizard:"The fact that whilst ground insolation is not yet back at 1960 levels (it's increased because of a reduction of aerosols - global dimming), the temperature has gone up by 0.6degC since 1960."where did you get this 0.6degC since the 60's?? it's more like 0.5 in the last 200 years!!
quote:Also CRU's Data (The apparent recent reduction of trend is an artefact of processing - if you use grid box averaging (as GISS use) on CRU's data then you get the same result as GISS (and vice versa).
quote:Originally posted by John_M:1) It's hard to agree or disagree with a study that isn't out yet.
quote.Skylab was sent towards meeting the Skylab fate in December the same year.
quote:Originally posted by Son of Mulder:There was a very thoughtful and helpful submission by John_M at 09:13 today 09-07-07 that has disappeared from this thread. Am I meant to take this site's editorial process seriously or was it an accident and will it be restored? Thanks.
quote:The average global ground insolation level is not yet back to the value it was in the 1960s. So if the current 0.6degC increase is due to aerosol changes then why were the 1960s not warmer than now.Furthermore, the reduction of atmospheric loading happened after about 1985, when the ground insolation started to climb. That's a decade into the current warming.Finally the trend in diurnal range: Night time temperatures were increasing faster than daytime(expected result of GHG increases) - causing the diurnal range to reduce until about 1985. The theory is that reduced aerosols increased daytime insolation making the warming trend catch up with the night. So after about 1985 the difference between night and day trends reduced. This issue also suggests that whatever is causing the warming it's a radiative effect in the atmosphere
quote:).
quote:Originally posted by CobblyWorlds:I thought that the drag on satellites was mainly due to expansion of the mesosphere, and below that the stratosphere is cooling - not warming.
quote:Originally posted by TrueSceptic:quote:Originally posted by Son of Mulder:There was a very thoughtful and helpful submission by John_M at 09:13 today 09-07-07 that has disappeared from this thread... ..It appears that the mods don't like too many links, but it is hard to see just what the threshold is. ...
quote:Originally posted by Son of Mulder:There was a very thoughtful and helpful submission by John_M at 09:13 today 09-07-07 that has disappeared from this thread...
quote:Originally posted by leokor:quote:Originally posted by CobblyWorlds:I thought that the drag on satellites was mainly due to expansion of the mesosphere, and below that the stratosphere is cooling - not warming. How energy input is redistributed in the atmosphere, and by what processes, is a separate matter. I have quoted the drag observations to underscore the fact that geomagnetic storms do provide additional heating. Coincidentally, it too may cause the stratosphere to cool.But if you really want to go into details, then consider this. At the tropospheric density levels, carbon dioxide has been experimentally shown, way back in the 40s, to completely saturate absorption (that is, it already blocks all the heat that it can possibly block; adding more of it won't change a thing). It was only in the 50s when scientists realized that CO2 absorption may not be saturated in the upper atmosphere, so adding more of it *there* may make a difference. If CO2 is to cause any greenhouse effect, it's only in the upper atmosphere that you need to look. But then again, when it expands (and any heated gas expands, whether from a geomagnetic storm or not), whatever energy was absorbed by CO2 is radiatively lost back to space; just try to heat anything in a greenhouse that has no ceiling. Geomagnetic storms, however, heat not only the upper atmosphere, but the lower atmosphere as well, by means of induced currents.Leo