Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Hando, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. Hando

    Hando Commander Red Shirt

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    Using the examples of the VOY episode "Living Witness" and the NF comic "Double Time", is it possible that the Federation no longer exist in the future?

    In "Living Witness", or at least those parts set in the future - in the 31st and ?33rd century - we see a planet in the Delta Quadrant that had no contact with the Federation since Voyager left. The lack of any Federation presence seem a bit strange to me given the current novelverse and possibly also Online. [I agree that it could be explained away by setting the future parts into the pre-"Future's End" timeline: Voyager and Earth destroyed in the 26th century...]

    In "Double Time", there is an encounter with a ship belonging to the Enevian Empire in the 39th century. And this empire seem to have good chances at conquering the galaxy, which would be strange if the Federation still stood. [Although it could just said that they are just a "new" faction in the Temporal Cold War.]

    I am open to any ideas or suggestions.
     
  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Personally, I always assumed Mr Daniels on Enterprise was with the Federation, but others seem to think he wasn't. As proof, they claim he never spoke of the Federation in the present tense and he spoke of a Federation monument, which supposedly means it must be a thing of the past.

    Regardless, I maintain that it does exist in the 31st century. As for why the planet in Living Witness had no contact with them, maybe the Prime Directive has been re-written and that planet does not fit the new criteria for making contact?
     
  3. Neutral Zone

    Neutral Zone Captain Captain

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    The Federation would/still exist in the 31st Century onwards as there been no evidence for its collapse as of yet.
     
  4. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That or the Federation heard about their rather interesting view of Voyager and decided it would be best not to contact them just yet.
     
  5. Count Zero

    Count Zero Says who? Moderator

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    Or maybe they have an agreement with whatever power claims that part of the galaxy not to go there.

    As for Daniels, I can't think of any indication on his part that the Federation doesn't exist anymore. Didn't he even say it would fight the Spherebuilders together with the Xindi when he and Archer were on that future Enterprise? (I can't remember what time that was supposed to be, though.) There are plenty of monuments to things that still exist so that isn't proof of anything. Obviously, the Federation of Daniel's time would have evolved and changed from that of Archer's time so that he might think of the latter as a thing of the past, just as I would about the older incarnations of the European Union.
     
  6. REDrake

    REDrake Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The battle of Procyon V supposedly took place 700 years in the future from Archer's time. That would place it around 29th Century. At that point Klingons were also part of the Federation. It's quite possible that from that war, which spawned across the entire galaxy, a new political body emerged.
     
  7. Count Zero

    Count Zero Says who? Moderator

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    Thanks for clarifying that, REDrake. :)
     
  8. ixfd64

    ixfd64 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    The Memory Alpha page doesn't say a whole lot, but there's nothing to suggest that the Federation no longer exists.

    On the subject of which, it'd be really cool to have a Star Trek series that takes place in the 4th millenium!
     
  9. REDrake

    REDrake Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Not much exploring left to do at that point. That must be why races were so dedicated to time travel. :lol:
     
  10. Count Zero

    Count Zero Says who? Moderator

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    It could be about finally making the jump to other galaxies. However, by that point, social mores would probably be very different from ours so it would either be hard for the audience to relate to any of the characters or the characters would be a anachronistic - basically being us in a futuristic setting.
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The Battle of Procyon V was in the 26th century, and no, that was an alternate future which won't come about. The Enterprise destroyed the sphere network, and the Delphic Expanse, in 2153. Thus the 26th century of prime-Trek will have no Expanse, no Sphere Builders, and no war.
     
  12. REDrake

    REDrake Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Why no war? It is my understanding that Sphere Builders tried to invade the universe but not in the Delphic Expanse. Procyon V is near Andoria, if I'm not mistaken. After being defeated, Sphere Builders tried to alter the future by building the spheres in the Expanse. In other words, Enterprise defeated the second attempt of invasion.
     
  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Trek I read a really fun article in Best of Trek #2 (published 1977) called "The Fall of the Federation", by Phillip Carpenter, which postulated the Federation splintering and imploding by the year 8000 after the galaxy had been fully explored and tensions arose about how the Federation should treat hostile species. It was written in a style similar to the Encyclopedia Galactica in Asimov's Foundation.

    There was mention of extra-galactic colonies, which upon learning of the Federation's fall, were forced to develop their own independent societies. They became lengend in the former Federation worlds in the Milky Way, known as the Missing Settlements.

    That story really captured my imagination.
     
  14. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Daniels said it was the same Expanse Archer's Enterprise was currentlyin , grown 50,000 light years+ by the time of the battle. He also said it was an alternate timeline, a possible future.
     
  15. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Negative evidence of it's collapse doesn't prove it's still there, by all accounts there's no conclusive evidence of it being around or having collapsed. This one goes in the unproven column.
     
  16. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Personally, I do believe the Federation will still be around in the 31st-Century, but the future isn't written in stone and any glimpses into Trek's distant future we've seen are all just potential futures that may or may not come to pass or may happen (and look) very differently by the time it eventually comes round.
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The Federation's already been destroyed several times using time travel, either intentionally (Star Trek: First Contact) or accidentlly ("Shockwave", "City on the Edge of Forever", "Past Tense" etc etc)

    Luckily they were always able to undo it. If the baddies ever succeed, the Federation's "destruction" will be via it never having existed.
     
  18. REDrake

    REDrake Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That's not exactly what he said. He said: "This species has the technology that allows them to examine alternate timelines. They've seen this future and want to change the outcome". This means that by destroying the Spheres, Archer ensured that the war happened along the desired path. Daniels was trying to prevent the change of timeline, not change it himself. He deals with facts, not "what ifs". He shows Archer the path history should take, trying to convince him not to endanger that future.
     
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    But without the spheres (which had been doing their job for thousands of years), and the modified space they create, the Sphere Builders can't exist in our dimension. And the spheres were destroyed 400 years early. Thus the future has changed, whatever Daniels' intentions may have been. It's no more the future of Trek than the ruined 31st century Earth from "Shockwave"
     
  20. NrobbieC

    NrobbieC Commander Red Shirt

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    Given the whole non-linear aspect, it's not impossible for the Battle of Procyon V to still occur in some form.

    Daniels only said he wasn't a member of Starfleet. It's most likely he's from the future DTI so that makes sense.
     
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