FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

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Darv57
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Darv57 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:47 am

Based on what I've read around here I have the impressions that Liir elders can "prune" the thoughts of younger liir.
If this is true then my questions are.

How homogenised is Liir philosophy and culture?
Are new ways of thinking even possible to develop before a certain age?
Can a young Liir dissent with the elders?
Do younger liir have an easier time adapting to new technology like humans do, or does the presence of the elders mind moderate their emotions towards it?

In short, are rebelling concepts just brainwashed out of new liir?

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:36 pm

Young Liir are extremely intelligent and adaptable, and are much more adept at mastering new technology and concepts than their Elders. This is not discouraged, so long as their ethos remains recognizably Liir.

As to dissent--the word simply does not have human-like meaning among the Liir. The sort of dissent that you're talking about depends on enormous privacy of mind and emotions. And the privacy of mind that humans take for granted, in a non-telepathic species, is simply impossible to achieve for a Liir.

The strongest Liir of every generation learn to create private mental space, especially since the introduction of Hide-the-Thought as a cultural practice. But there is no such thing as a private chamber of the mind which another Liir, by virtue of being sufficiently strong or wily, cannot penetrate. Even Elders lose this game frequently. Only Great Elders are so powerful that losing the game becomes irrelevant, because in a very real sense they ARE the world.

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Darv57
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Darv57 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:20 pm

Ok, thank you. Follow up question.
How exactly do the Zuul fit in?
I got the impression that they got a bit more privacy then Liir, outside there corite at least.
Also for a player who makes him/herself a multi-species empire, how are other races fit in?
Can/Do the Liir enhance the Psionic potential of other species?

Sorry, my last question turned into three.

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Space Voyager » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:14 am

Erinys wrote:As to dissent--the word simply does not have human-like meaning among the Liir. The sort of dissent that you're talking about depends on enormous privacy of mind and emotions. And the privacy of mind that humans take for granted, in a non-telepathic species, is simply impossible to achieve for a Liir.


Would disharmony at least come close to describing what dissent would be in a Liir society?
ErinysSolForce Intelligence has great difficulty penetrating Liir society to that depth, for obvious reasons. fibioLack of scuba gear?

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Thamuzz » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:45 pm

Erinys wrote:The strongest Liir of every generation learn to create private mental space, especially since the introduction of Hide-the-Thought as a cultural practice. But there is no such thing as a private chamber of the mind which another Liir, by virtue of being sufficiently strong or wily, cannot penetrate. Even Elders lose this game frequently. Only Great Elders are so powerful that losing the game becomes irrelevant, because in a very real sense they ARE the world.

--Arinn


Was Hide-the-Thought introduced before or after the rise of the first Suul'ka?

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:36 pm

Long after. It was introduced by the Black before his own ascension. He had made the decision to change his species and their culture permanently, for the sake of survival.

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:45 pm

Space Voyager wrote:Would disharmony at least come close to describing what dissent would be in a Liir society?


*shrug* We can hammer on it a thousand different ways, but we will never get the answer that some readers want. Essentially, you're trying to force a human Theory of Mind onto an alien species with a completely different way of communicating and relating to one another. It cannot be done.

Change is typically introduced into Liir systems more by wonder and curiosity than by dissent, disharmony or "rebellion" per se. Young Liir contribute to the system by thinking and feeling independently and sharing their thoughts and feelings; they do not interrogate Received Truth the way humans often do.

The revolution is such an enormous watershed in their history precisely because some aspects of the previously stable system have been permanently altered. The result will not be a perfect universe, to be certain, but there will be more worlds, more Voices, more opportunities to learn and experience, more species to interact with and understand. And no one despot will ever be able to enslave ALL the Liir who exist in the universe at once. Individual younger Liir may not "dissent" the way human teens can, but Voices can disagree on a peer-to-peer basis, and Liir can actually emigrate to join the choir on a different world if they feel inclined to do so. It's a subtle but powerful statement of rejection and agreement when those who are free to go...choose to stay.

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Aedrion » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:39 am

Erinys wrote:Long after. It was introduced by the Black before his own ascension. He had made the decision to change his species and their culture permanently, for the sake of survival.

--Arinn



I'm under the impression The Black knows a great many things the other races do not and that he's trying to guide the Liir in a direction he believes is best. That said though, what relation is there between The Black and the other races, have they seen him, do they know of him, does he communicate with them in any way?
Last edited by Aedrion on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Eleahen » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:52 am

Aedrion wrote:does he communicate with them in any way?

Possibly, Ishii actions can be considered as such.

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:52 am

When the Black chooses to be heard, there is not a Liir or Prester Zuul in the galaxy who cannot hear him. Communication is his greatest strength.

That being said, his most constant communication is with his Black Swimmers. I have been waiting for someone to put two and two together and realize that Ishii's name was more than a command rank. ;)

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:52 am

possibly spoilers: Wasn't it written somewhere that his 'name' translated to 'primary tentacle' which is idiomatically well-translated as 'right-hand man?'

What do you mean, and will you respond to guesses about your intended meaning? In any case, here are some:
...had they known each other when they were both younger?
......had Ishii somehow been involved in The Black's choice to go after the Suul'ka?
...was Ishii someone that The Black talked to particularly much? a confidante in some way, maybe?

Also, I find that element of the Black really cool- that his powers are strongest in an area that is oriented around others (really underscoring the fundamental ideological/etc. divide between him and the Suul'ka even further).

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:44 am

What I mean is that sometimes when they call you the Hand of the King...you really are the hand of the King. And his eyes, and his ears, and his mouth. ;) The Black was always with Ishii.

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Darv57 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:23 am

Is there something specific to the prester zuul and liir that allows the Black to communicate with them, or can he talk to anyone in the galaxy?

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:28 am

Hypothetically, he could speak to anyone, I suppose. He certainly can hear everyone, to some degree--especially if they're screaming.

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Darv57
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Darv57 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:37 am

On the one hand, now I'm afraid of the giant space whale reading my brain. On the other hand, the black must have the best 'veiw' of the universe, all the little sparks of life calling out. No wonder he can't sit silent with the suul'ka around.

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