WEBVTT 00:12.996 --> 00:16.366 >> David: I would like to introduce register of copyrights 00:16.366 --> 00:20.346 and my boss, Register Shira Perlmutter; Shira take it away. 00:20.536 --> 00:22.046 >> Shira Perlmutter: Thank you David. 00:22.046 --> 00:25.376 And welcome everyone to the public - 00:25.376 --> 00:28.046 Copyright Public Modernization Committee, to the members 00:28.046 --> 00:31.906 and also members of the public who are joining us. 00:31.906 --> 00:35.516 And just as a reminder for those who may not have joined before, 00:35.516 --> 00:39.236 this committee was established by the Library of Congress 00:39.236 --> 00:42.826 in order to allow us to hear from stakeholders 00:42.826 --> 00:45.646 about the work we're doing on copyright modernization. 00:45.646 --> 00:48.336 And also to share our progress with you. 00:48.336 --> 00:51.426 And that progress has been substantial. 00:51.746 --> 00:55.666 So I'm very please to say that since we last met, 00:55.816 --> 00:57.346 we passed two more 00:57.346 --> 01:00.126 of our quarterly software development milestones, 01:00.546 --> 01:03.636 resulting in work that you're going to see today. 01:03.636 --> 01:05.766 And some major public releases. 01:06.156 --> 01:08.406 So I do want to start with breaking news. 01:08.406 --> 01:10.796 After two years of development 01:10.796 --> 01:13.446 and extensive user experience testing, 01:13.746 --> 01:16.776 the new copyright recordation application, 01:16.776 --> 01:21.146 the online recordation system of the enterprise copyright system 01:21.146 --> 01:23.606 or ECS will be made available for use 01:23.606 --> 01:26.036 by the general public beginning on Monday. 01:26.716 --> 01:30.346 So you heard it here first, even before the press release. 01:30.556 --> 01:33.566 And we gave this group a sneak preview 01:33.566 --> 01:37.556 of the recordation application in our previous meeting. 01:37.556 --> 01:41.976 And you may remember two of the major points about this. 01:41.976 --> 01:44.066 First it's the first piece 01:44.066 --> 01:46.846 of our enterprise copyright system that's reached this 01:46.846 --> 01:48.146 important milestone. 01:48.146 --> 01:51.776 And it also replaces the oldest of our processes, 01:51.776 --> 01:54.756 which was a purely paper recordation system. 01:54.756 --> 01:58.506 So this is overdo and we're very excited about it. 01:58.506 --> 02:01.826 Second on public records, 02:01.826 --> 02:06.586 later this summer our new public records system will achieve the 02:06.586 --> 02:09.016 same accomplishment. 02:09.016 --> 02:11.496 And we will be releasing it fully to the public, 02:11.496 --> 02:14.576 this system that's used by researchers and the public 02:14.576 --> 02:17.406 to look up information about copyrights. 02:17.406 --> 02:21.316 And this will be the second major application release 02:21.386 --> 02:22.936 of the ECS. 02:22.936 --> 02:26.626 And finally, yesterday morning we released yet another set 02:26.886 --> 02:32.326 of 300 historical record books on LOC.gov, 02:32.326 --> 02:35.806 which contain many thousands of additional registration records. 02:36.206 --> 02:39.106 So these are available as you know for your use 02:39.106 --> 02:41.416 on Loc.gov including the ability 02:41.416 --> 02:43.796 to download the scans themselves. 02:44.326 --> 02:48.136 So in a moment you will be hearing a recap along 02:48.136 --> 02:50.316 with a demonstration of some of the work we've done 02:50.316 --> 02:53.676 in the six months since our last public meeting. 02:53.676 --> 02:56.526 But before we do that I'd like to hand the mic 02:56.526 --> 03:00.616 over to our chief information officer, Judith Conklin 03:00.996 --> 03:02.646 for some additional remarks. 03:02.646 --> 03:03.946 So Judith. 03:03.946 --> 03:05.246 >> Judith Conklin: Thank you Shira. 03:05.296 --> 03:08.016 And good afternoon to everyone who joined us. 03:08.016 --> 03:12.006 As Shira said I am the CIO at the Library of Congress. 03:12.146 --> 03:14.846 And I want to join Shira in welcoming you 03:14.846 --> 03:17.156 to the third official meeting 03:17.386 --> 03:20.796 of the copyright public modernization committee. 03:21.176 --> 03:23.436 And I'm very glad to see everyone here. 03:23.436 --> 03:31.446 Since this is the third public meeting of this committee, 03:31.986 --> 03:35.506 I wanted to state that we've already 03:35.506 --> 03:40.456 in the first two meetings extensively covered our - 03:40.616 --> 03:45.026 how our technology team is developing, 03:45.026 --> 03:46.516 the enterprise copyright system. 03:46.516 --> 03:49.626 And how we're partnering with the copyright office. 03:50.176 --> 03:55.296 And if you missed the first two meetings you can find the videos 03:55.296 --> 04:02.876 on our loc.gov website, as well as several ECS webinars 04:02.876 --> 04:06.636 on the copyright modernization website. 04:07.636 --> 04:14.216 But before we go on, I want to remind you about two points 04:14.216 --> 04:15.696 that we've discussed before. 04:15.696 --> 04:19.336 And I hit on the first one a little bit already. 04:19.336 --> 04:25.036 But this is a true partnership between the Library OCIO 04:25.036 --> 04:28.076 and the copyright office. 04:28.076 --> 04:30.876 We - and that's at every level. 04:31.166 --> 04:36.826 I want to assure you that Shira and I talk about ECS a lot 04:36.826 --> 04:41.526 and we have a great partnership. 04:41.526 --> 04:46.046 And the technology side, the team, the developers, 04:46.046 --> 04:50.146 the project manager, managers - there's several of them. 04:50.146 --> 04:56.366 Down to you know, our infrastructure people. 04:56.416 --> 05:01.186 They have - they're working fantastically 05:01.186 --> 05:03.446 with the copyright team. 05:03.446 --> 05:05.826 And the experts in copyright. 05:05.986 --> 05:10.196 They do it every day and that's to ensure 05:10.316 --> 05:13.186 that we're delivering a platform that meets the needs 05:13.526 --> 05:18.636 of the copyright community. 05:18.636 --> 05:22.426 And we do that - the saying that Shira and I like to use - 05:22.426 --> 05:24.616 I actually stole it from Shira. 05:24.616 --> 05:26.836 And we can only be successful together. 05:26.836 --> 05:31.356 And Shira and I take that very seriously. 05:31.356 --> 05:34.316 Our teams need to work very closely together, 05:34.316 --> 05:36.196 and they are working closely together. 05:36.196 --> 05:37.816 And the second thing is, 05:37.816 --> 05:40.016 and I really can't emphasize this enough. 05:40.016 --> 05:45.036 That our entire development process is built on feedback. 05:45.086 --> 05:53.076 We, OCIO, the design team relies significantly on feedback 05:53.076 --> 05:57.166 from the copyright office staff, the experts. 05:57.166 --> 05:59.236 And real users, like you. 06:00.616 --> 06:06.156 So we - we want to know that everyone will be able 06:06.156 --> 06:12.326 to use what we're developing, to accomplish their business needs. 06:12.326 --> 06:16.266 And be able to use what we're developing. 06:16.266 --> 06:20.216 So - and that's every type of user. 06:20.216 --> 06:22.856 Whether it's a high-end user, a power user 06:22.856 --> 06:27.526 or the first time ever person going 06:27.526 --> 06:30.926 into a copyright application. 06:30.926 --> 06:36.776 So that's why these public meetings are very important 06:36.986 --> 06:38.286 to us. 06:38.286 --> 06:40.076 We've been making great progress as Shira said. 06:40.076 --> 06:43.176 And we have a lot of good news to share. 06:43.386 --> 06:46.786 And I'm looking forward to a lively discussion 06:46.866 --> 06:49.676 with you, and the committee. 06:50.266 --> 06:52.106 And with that, David I'll hand it back 06:52.106 --> 06:53.406 to you to get us started. 06:53.976 --> 06:55.276 >> David: Thank you Judith. 06:55.276 --> 06:58.336 It's a really exciting time in the copyright office. 06:58.526 --> 07:01.406 Before I introduce our next speaker, who is going 07:01.406 --> 07:03.246 to be doing some software demonstrations, 07:03.706 --> 07:08.966 I'd like to provide a short background reminder to people 07:08.966 --> 07:11.306 who may be joining us for the first time, 07:11.306 --> 07:15.786 that the copyright office uses the scale of agile methodology 07:15.786 --> 07:19.416 to manage our software. 07:19.416 --> 07:23.276 And this means that every quarter we have a big meeting 07:23.276 --> 07:27.946 of the whole group between OCIO and the copyright office, 07:27.946 --> 07:30.416 with the CIO is there. 07:30.416 --> 07:33.456 The register of copyrights is there and the staff who work 07:33.456 --> 07:34.966 on each of these projects. 07:34.966 --> 07:38.806 And we do a set of - of software demos. 07:38.806 --> 07:43.176 And most of what you're going to see today is cribbed 07:43.176 --> 07:46.366 from our most recent software demo. 07:46.676 --> 07:50.836 We call this in scale of agile terminology, 07:50.836 --> 07:54.036 it's an inspect and adapt ceremony. 07:54.036 --> 07:56.866 So this is a - this is a little bit of the highlights 07:56.866 --> 07:58.586 of the inspect and adapt ceremony 07:58.586 --> 08:01.306 to members of the public. 08:01.306 --> 08:04.736 I also wanted to point out that the demos that you're going 08:04.736 --> 08:09.176 to see today are heavy on two of the ECS components 08:09.426 --> 08:12.146 that we have not looked at a lot previously. 08:12.146 --> 08:14.536 So we looked at the recordation system, 08:14.536 --> 08:16.936 we looked at the historical public records, 08:16.936 --> 08:20.806 we looked at the public records system, all of which are 08:20.806 --> 08:22.506 out in the public now. 08:22.506 --> 08:26.446 And Sara is going to provide some demos of systems 08:26.446 --> 08:29.636 that are used by copyright office staff today, and not just 08:29.636 --> 08:31.616 by members of the public. 08:31.616 --> 08:35.016 And then finally, for those of you who are waiting 08:35.016 --> 08:39.406 with bated breath for the - for the next big demo 08:39.406 --> 08:42.626 of the registration system that's what we're shooting for, 08:42.626 --> 08:44.956 for our next public meeting that we'll do together. 08:44.956 --> 08:48.736 Where we'll do this style of demonstration 08:49.076 --> 08:51.566 of the largest you know, sort of the centerpiece 08:51.566 --> 08:53.426 of the enterprise copyright system. 08:53.426 --> 08:58.326 So without further ado I would like to introduce Sara Garski. 08:58.326 --> 09:01.556 Sara is the Deputy Director of the Product Management Division 09:01.646 --> 09:03.966 of the United States Copyright Office. 09:03.966 --> 09:08.846 And is the product manager for the enterprise copyright system 09:08.846 --> 09:12.606 which is the star of our modernization work. 09:12.636 --> 09:13.976 Sara take it away. 09:19.526 --> 09:21.426 >> Sara: Thank you David. 09:22.326 --> 09:25.606 And as always, I am delighted 09:25.606 --> 09:28.536 to be providing an update on ECS progress. 09:28.536 --> 09:32.346 It has been an eventful time for the ECS since I spoke 09:32.346 --> 09:35.306 to you last, several months ago. 09:35.356 --> 09:39.026 We do continue to make great development strides towards our 09:39.026 --> 09:42.676 vision of an intuitive and flexible enterprise system. 09:42.676 --> 09:46.376 That incorporates registration, recordation, licensing, 09:46.376 --> 09:49.246 public record and shared services capabilities 09:49.246 --> 09:51.916 to benefit the creative - creative community 09:51.916 --> 09:54.766 and the copyright staff. 09:55.146 --> 10:00.046 Shira already gave you sort of the highlights 10:00.046 --> 10:01.506 of what's happening in the next month. 10:01.506 --> 10:03.806 I won't tell you again. 10:03.806 --> 10:06.816 In our most recent quarterly development checkpoint, 10:06.816 --> 10:11.006 all of the ECS product teams demoed work in progress 10:11.006 --> 10:13.616 and refined their plans, development plans 10:13.616 --> 10:16.006 for the upcoming quarter. 10:16.006 --> 10:18.096 And I'm going to give you a few highlights. 10:18.386 --> 10:21.696 So the registration product team recently completed work 10:21.696 --> 10:24.906 on a range of internal and external features. 10:25.056 --> 10:28.666 On the staff side, development work supported correspondence 10:28.666 --> 10:32.546 and activity tracking features as well as enhancements 10:32.546 --> 10:33.846 to the message center. 10:34.106 --> 10:36.246 Notably enabling support 10:36.246 --> 10:39.146 for inline images as part of messages. 10:39.146 --> 10:43.196 Work on the applicant side included claim, search, file, 10:43.196 --> 10:45.596 upload, account management and support 10:45.596 --> 10:48.246 for standard application payments. 10:48.246 --> 10:51.826 The registration product team also completed design work 10:51.826 --> 10:56.046 in support of the registration of a group of unpublished works 10:56.046 --> 11:01.806 as well as on a born digital claims refusal letter 11:01.806 --> 11:03.106 and process. 11:03.106 --> 11:07.536 And finally, the registration product team explored methods 11:07.606 --> 11:11.786 to manage and create and manage the massive volume 11:11.786 --> 11:15.186 of supporting help content that will be needed for the system. 11:15.186 --> 11:18.546 And completed the journey map of a claim. 11:18.846 --> 11:21.756 The registration product team is currently focused 11:21.756 --> 11:24.506 on capabilities for capturing claims, submission 11:24.506 --> 11:28.496 and examination information enabling registration certified 11:28.496 --> 11:31.826 preview and staff workflow capabilities. 11:31.826 --> 11:35.646 At the next meeting, as David noted, I will be excited 11:35.646 --> 11:38.056 to show you the work we have completed to date, 11:38.056 --> 11:40.196 thus far on the registration product. 11:40.556 --> 11:44.256 As was previously noted in Shira's breaking news, 11:44.256 --> 11:48.666 ECS recordation release 1.8 is imminent 11:48.666 --> 11:50.446 and will mark the availability 11:50.446 --> 11:53.806 of recordation section 205 submission capabilities 11:53.886 --> 11:55.696 to the general public. 11:55.776 --> 11:57.966 The product team recently has spent much 11:57.966 --> 12:00.286 of it's time preparing for this release. 12:00.646 --> 12:02.336 The team has also worked 12:02.336 --> 12:06.386 on enhancing canned reporting capabilities, instructional 12:06.386 --> 12:09.726 and help text content enhancements, 12:09.726 --> 12:13.606 activity tracking features and account management functions. 12:13.836 --> 12:16.716 In addition to supporting the imminent release, 12:16.716 --> 12:20.756 the team is getting to work on the next large set of features 12:20.926 --> 12:24.336 for examining section 203 notices of termination. 12:24.686 --> 12:30.406 The public record system released 5.0 is intended 12:30.406 --> 12:34.226 to include the ability to render reference copies 12:34.226 --> 12:36.946 on registration certificates processed 12:36.946 --> 12:40.976 through the echo system, as well as certificates of recordation. 12:40.976 --> 12:46.656 A future release is anticipated to include further enhancements 12:46.656 --> 12:50.146 to the detailed record view, including such things 12:50.146 --> 12:52.996 as hyperlinks to related registration 12:52.996 --> 12:54.566 and recordation records. 12:54.976 --> 13:00.896 Recent quantitative usability tests showed marked improvements 13:00.896 --> 13:04.146 in search relevancy and [inaudible] compared 13:04.206 --> 13:06.446 to baseline results from last year. 13:06.756 --> 13:09.576 The team has also worked on methods 13:09.576 --> 13:12.936 for improving user adoption to the new system 13:13.176 --> 13:17.556 versus the legacy public record catalog. 13:17.556 --> 13:20.526 And now I would like to demonstrate some software. 13:21.636 --> 13:24.076 And so I will share screen. 13:24.076 --> 13:29.596 And hopefully everyone can see. 13:29.596 --> 13:32.136 >> David: Looking great Sara. 13:32.326 --> 13:33.626 >> Sara: Okay good. 13:33.626 --> 13:34.926 All right. 13:34.926 --> 13:36.986 So what I'd like to show you first is the beginnings 13:36.986 --> 13:39.056 of a new product to support records 13:39.056 --> 13:41.306 and research certification services 13:41.306 --> 13:42.866 that are provided by the office. 13:43.326 --> 13:45.886 When completed, this ECS product 13:45.886 --> 13:50.226 that we call service request processing will provide users 13:50.226 --> 13:54.766 access to research services and requests for deposit copies. 13:55.186 --> 13:58.086 The public will be able to submit and pay 13:58.086 --> 14:00.826 for requests via this online portal. 14:01.486 --> 14:04.276 And copyright office staff will be able 14:04.276 --> 14:08.616 to estimate non-flat fees for research as well 14:08.616 --> 14:10.896 as manage the internal assignment 14:10.896 --> 14:13.826 of requests and track progress. 14:14.476 --> 14:18.726 So we - what you see here is the beginnings 14:18.726 --> 14:20.896 of that external portal. 14:21.316 --> 14:28.996 So as a user I am going to request a copy estimate. 14:29.076 --> 14:32.066 You will see here that we have additional services 14:32.066 --> 14:34.496 that we intend to make available. 14:34.626 --> 14:35.926 They are not ready yet. 14:35.986 --> 14:39.076 So we're just going to do a copy estimate. 14:39.266 --> 14:42.516 So I'm going to select copy estimate. 14:42.516 --> 14:44.836 And I'm going to click next. 14:44.836 --> 14:47.296 Okay, so then the next question 14:47.296 --> 14:49.526 that I get is do I have a copyright number 14:49.526 --> 14:51.696 for the work I am requesting? 14:51.696 --> 14:53.216 The answer is yes, I do. 14:53.976 --> 14:58.546 So I click next and I'm going to enter that number. 14:59.376 --> 15:04.766 And I see my - my language has changed 15:04.766 --> 15:07.246 to something that is non-English. 15:09.356 --> 15:10.656 Okay, now we're good. 15:10.746 --> 15:12.046 All right. 15:12.046 --> 15:14.876 I'm going to enter this number. 15:14.876 --> 15:26.996 1737, that was right the first time, 1737396, okay. 15:26.996 --> 15:29.826 You will see here we have options, 15:29.826 --> 15:34.496 or we have additional fields here where envision 15:34.496 --> 15:39.246 in the future is the ability to pull the title 15:39.246 --> 15:41.376 and your publication information based 15:41.376 --> 15:43.686 on the registration number. 15:43.816 --> 15:47.796 Again that's planned for future work. 15:48.066 --> 15:52.496 So I am going to click add. 15:53.026 --> 15:58.366 And then you'll see here that I am requested, or I'm being asked 15:58.496 --> 16:01.296 for the kind of service that I am requesting. 16:01.926 --> 16:05.396 In this case I want an additional certificate 16:05.396 --> 16:07.496 and I would like for it to be certified. 16:07.496 --> 16:11.636 We see here if there is an additional registration number 16:11.636 --> 16:14.656 associated with this, I have the ability to enter that. 16:14.656 --> 16:17.076 I'm not going to do that at this point. 16:17.076 --> 16:19.716 I am just going to click next. 16:20.036 --> 16:23.306 And now I'm being asked what my relationship is 16:23.306 --> 16:25.126 to the request that I have made. 16:25.126 --> 16:26.476 I am the copyright owner. 16:26.476 --> 16:29.916 I am going to click next. 16:29.916 --> 16:31.846 And here I have the ability 16:31.846 --> 16:36.416 to select regular processing or expedited. 16:36.476 --> 16:38.046 I'm going to select regular. 16:38.776 --> 16:44.446 And then I'm going to enter all of the various information 16:44.806 --> 16:48.976 that will help the office process my request. 16:55.166 --> 16:58.766 And as you can see, I'm just entering dummy information. 16:58.956 --> 17:04.366 Because we are on a test - we are in a test site - 17:04.366 --> 17:12.066 >> David: Sara we've had a couple of questions come up. 17:12.066 --> 17:14.636 And if you don't mind if I weigh in. 17:14.966 --> 17:16.266 >> Sara: Sure. 17:16.266 --> 17:18.106 >> David: One is, is there a reason 17:18.106 --> 17:19.676 that it says copyright number rather 17:19.676 --> 17:21.846 than copyright registration number? 17:22.176 --> 17:23.476 >> Sara: No. 17:23.476 --> 17:26.286 I don't believe that there is. 17:26.286 --> 17:29.186 And that is a piece of feedback 17:29.186 --> 17:31.156 that I can take back to the team. 17:31.156 --> 17:33.976 And perhaps we add that. 17:34.196 --> 17:36.686 It seems like it would be a very easy thing to add. 17:37.106 --> 17:38.406 >> David: Yeah. 17:38.406 --> 17:41.726 And then a second question was whether it would be possible 17:41.726 --> 17:46.466 to expand on your - about born digital works. 17:46.556 --> 17:51.186 And - from one of our panelists 17:51.186 --> 17:55.866 and if there are any additional clarifications or questions 17:55.866 --> 17:58.816 about that, I'd welcome the panelists 17:58.816 --> 18:00.116 to unmute and ask as well. 18:04.216 --> 18:05.706 >> Jim Neil: Sara in your comments 18:05.706 --> 18:07.096 and introducing the work 18:07.096 --> 18:09.396 that has been done - this is Jim Neil. 18:09.436 --> 18:10.736 >> Sara: Yes. 18:10.736 --> 18:13.676 >> Jim Neil: You mentioned some work that was being done 18:13.676 --> 18:15.476 on born digital works. 18:15.476 --> 18:19.216 And I just - I didn't mean to interrupt this presentation. 18:19.266 --> 18:22.266 I wanted you to comment further on that when you were done. 18:22.466 --> 18:23.766 >> Sara: Okay. 18:23.766 --> 18:26.356 Sure. Happy to do that. 18:26.466 --> 18:27.766 Okay. 18:27.766 --> 18:29.066 >> David: Thank you Jim. 18:29.066 --> 18:30.446 And sorry to put you on the spot. 18:30.446 --> 18:32.186 I could have saved that for the end. 18:32.656 --> 18:33.956 >> Sara: That's okay. 18:33.956 --> 18:36.436 That is all right. 18:36.436 --> 18:39.926 Okay, so I have - that gave me the opportunity 18:39.926 --> 18:41.346 to enter all of my information. 18:41.346 --> 18:44.646 And I'm going to select review. 18:45.736 --> 18:50.456 And this - the fact that we're seeing this screen again may be 18:50.456 --> 18:51.996 a bug that we need to fix. 18:52.396 --> 18:55.896 But again, I'm going to click next. 18:55.896 --> 18:59.296 And now I see that there is a request number 18:59.296 --> 19:02.146 that is associated with what I have just done. 19:02.146 --> 19:07.826 And you can also see that our payment review component is not 19:07.826 --> 19:09.126 yet implemented. 19:09.126 --> 19:12.216 So this is - this is where we are with this. 19:12.406 --> 19:18.316 But I can also tell you that near planned development work 19:18.316 --> 19:21.466 for this product includes enabling the payment 19:21.466 --> 19:25.586 capabilities that are needed via pay.gov as well 19:25.586 --> 19:28.976 as the ability to generate receipts. 19:29.086 --> 19:36.316 And process the ability for staff to look 19:36.546 --> 19:39.526 at in process requests. 19:39.526 --> 19:46.416 And for - actually that's for both staff and external users. 19:47.626 --> 19:52.646 Okay and now I'm going to - 19:52.646 --> 19:55.586 >> David: Sara while you're jumping over to the - 19:55.676 --> 19:56.976 >> Sara: Yes. 19:56.976 --> 19:58.306 >> David: The other system, 19:58.306 --> 20:02.926 I'm going to answer a couple questions I got on a side chat. 20:03.096 --> 20:08.696 One of which is a question we also receive via email before 20:09.296 --> 20:16.996 the meeting today, which is will there be a separate deposit 20:16.996 --> 20:19.876 account for those who are using deposit accounts? 20:19.906 --> 20:24.286 For different ECS applications? 20:24.286 --> 20:27.066 Or will it be a single payment system 20:27.066 --> 20:29.766 that is used across all of ECS? 20:32.356 --> 20:33.656 >> Sara: Right. 20:33.656 --> 20:38.256 So the intent - the eventual intent is a single deposit 20:38.256 --> 20:40.546 account across all work streams. 20:41.366 --> 20:44.916 >> David: Perfect, thank you. 20:44.916 --> 20:49.006 And we have another question about the requests, 20:49.006 --> 20:51.816 which is who has access to these requests? 20:51.816 --> 20:53.936 And how long will they be retained? 20:53.936 --> 20:57.606 I know the question about retention is a - is a document - 20:57.636 --> 21:00.526 there's a document retention policy 21:00.526 --> 21:04.066 for these requests already. 21:04.646 --> 21:07.246 But can you start with who has access 21:07.246 --> 21:09.746 to the requests once they are submitted? 21:10.306 --> 21:14.746 >> Sara: So if we're talking about the research requests, 21:14.746 --> 21:19.346 so there's a limited group of people whose roll 21:19.406 --> 21:22.976 in the office it is to process these requests. 21:23.206 --> 21:28.006 There is a specific group of staff that do this. 21:28.006 --> 21:29.836 It's a very limited number. 21:29.836 --> 21:33.516 Maybe 10, maybe give or take. 21:33.516 --> 21:34.956 And so that's the group of people 21:34.956 --> 21:36.386 who would have access to it. 21:37.696 --> 21:38.996 >> David: Great. 21:38.996 --> 21:43.486 And as far as the document retention, 21:43.556 --> 21:45.136 I believe that these fall 21:45.136 --> 21:47.616 under the standard 20-year document retention policy, 21:47.616 --> 21:50.326 but I will follow up with the members to find 21:50.326 --> 21:52.736 out what the document retention policy 21:53.006 --> 21:57.286 on research requests specifically - specifically is. 21:57.656 --> 22:04.736 I don't see any additional questions coming 22:04.736 --> 22:06.036 through about this part of the demo. 22:06.036 --> 22:10.446 We do have another - we do have another question 22:10.446 --> 22:12.566 about another one of the areas, which I'll save 22:12.566 --> 22:16.276 for after this part of the demo. 22:16.276 --> 22:17.886 >> Sara: Okay I can - you know I can only 22:17.886 --> 22:20.136 like single thread things David. 22:20.326 --> 22:22.276 >> David: Yes, exactly. 22:23.316 --> 22:24.616 >> Sara: All right. 22:24.616 --> 22:31.856 Okay, so now we are looking at the licensing product. 22:31.856 --> 22:36.496 So for those of you who may not have heard this spiel before. 22:36.866 --> 22:38.726 The purpose of the licensing product is 22:38.726 --> 22:41.086 to improve the efficiency 22:41.086 --> 22:43.486 by which the office ingests information 22:43.486 --> 22:45.506 from licensing remitters. 22:45.506 --> 22:51.196 And to improve specifically timeliness and accuracy 22:51.196 --> 22:55.096 of financial and statistical reporting produced 22:55.096 --> 22:56.396 by the office. 22:56.396 --> 22:59.906 So I'm going to show you like three features 22:59.906 --> 23:04.426 that have been worked on recently by the product team. 23:04.426 --> 23:10.606 Because I'm already logged in with a user that has this role. 23:10.606 --> 23:15.056 We're going to look at what is called the collections 23:15.056 --> 23:17.066 tab first. 23:17.526 --> 23:20.606 So this - this is the tab we're looking at here. 23:20.606 --> 23:22.736 You can see there's a lot of information. 23:22.736 --> 23:24.856 This is a pretty dense screen. 23:25.206 --> 23:30.626 But this screen and this tab provides fiscal staff, 23:30.626 --> 23:36.976 so these are accountants in the licensing division who need 23:36.976 --> 23:39.716 to look at the licensing payment information 23:39.716 --> 23:42.346 that we receive from pay.gov. 23:42.496 --> 23:45.586 Anybody who is associated with the licensing product, 23:45.696 --> 23:51.086 or the licensing process knows that as of July 1 of this year, 23:51.086 --> 23:55.536 all licensing payments must be submitted via pay.gov. 23:55.536 --> 23:57.846 Again I noted this is a very dense screen. 23:57.846 --> 24:02.456 There's lots of information regarding the licensing 24:02.456 --> 24:05.456 statement of account, that is important to this team. 24:05.796 --> 24:11.766 What I will say is that over here on the right if there - 24:11.766 --> 24:16.776 if I'm a member of that team and I don't need to see all 24:16.776 --> 24:22.856 of these columns I - we have the ability to remove a number 24:22.856 --> 24:28.826 of these to make the screen a little more manageable. 24:28.826 --> 24:34.456 Now I'm going to - before we go to another view 24:34.456 --> 24:37.206 as a different user, I'm going to go back 24:37.206 --> 24:42.736 to my statement of accounts view. 24:42.736 --> 24:46.936 And I'm going to drill into one in particular. 24:48.066 --> 24:49.516 Oh this is not a good one. 24:49.516 --> 24:51.396 this one has an underpayment detected. 24:51.396 --> 24:52.726 Let's scroll back. 24:54.356 --> 24:56.456 See if we can actually get a payment. 24:59.236 --> 25:00.796 Again this is all dummy data. 25:00.796 --> 25:02.096 So - 25:10.586 --> 25:14.976 We may not have any - may not have any ability to look 25:14.976 --> 25:16.276 at actual numbers here. 25:16.276 --> 25:25.276 But you will - you can see that there actually should be okay - 25:25.416 --> 25:30.026 that it looks like we're looking for a payment 25:30.026 --> 25:33.916 to have been received by the office associated with this SOA, 25:33.916 --> 25:35.976 with the statement of account, excuse me. 25:44.056 --> 25:45.976 Okay so now I am going to - 25:51.786 --> 25:53.086 I'm going to log out. 26:00.696 --> 26:06.916 I'm going to stop sharing briefly, 26:06.916 --> 26:10.276 so that no one sees what my password is. 26:32.926 --> 26:36.886 >> David: Sara I told several of our panelists and cohosts 26:36.886 --> 26:38.546 that I prepared a little dance number 26:38.546 --> 26:41.326 for when we went off of screen sharing. 26:41.326 --> 26:42.626 And - 26:42.626 --> 26:43.926 >> Sara: Great. 26:43.926 --> 26:45.256 >> David: But I have to admit now in front of everybody 26:45.256 --> 26:47.506 in the audience that I - that I was bluffing. 26:47.506 --> 26:50.116 I didn't really prepare a dance number. 26:50.116 --> 26:55.056 But I did - I did want to say there were a couple of questions 26:55.056 --> 26:59.766 that came to me on a side chat about the licensing - 26:59.846 --> 27:01.196 licensing specifically. 27:01.196 --> 27:05.046 And one of those questions was about the amount 27:05.046 --> 27:10.926 of licensing revenue that the copyright office manages. 27:11.196 --> 27:16.956 And I - I did want to share that there's recent breaking news 27:16.956 --> 27:22.936 that the copyright office had a clean audit of our - 27:22.986 --> 27:27.176 and we now have a many years running 27:27.176 --> 27:31.356 of a clean external audit of the licensing management 27:31.456 --> 27:32.756 of the licensing dollars. 27:32.756 --> 27:37.086 I know that this will be on the recording later. 27:37.086 --> 27:40.576 And I'll be able to verify what the number is. 27:40.826 --> 27:44.626 But the number - the amount of dollars manded 27:44.626 --> 27:48.226 by the copyright office in the licensing system is 27:48.226 --> 27:49.526 over a billion dollars. 27:49.526 --> 27:55.776 So it's a sizable - sizable chunk of change. 27:56.216 --> 28:03.736 And then we got one other question about how - 28:03.736 --> 28:07.276 how the licensing statement of account - 28:07.276 --> 28:10.606 statements of account come to the copyright office, 28:10.656 --> 28:16.986 which may be a thing if we're not ready to show that today, 28:16.986 --> 28:18.576 maybe we could just talk through it a little bit. 28:22.406 --> 28:25.986 >> Sara: How they come to the copyright office? 28:25.986 --> 28:27.286 >> David: Right. 28:27.286 --> 28:29.156 >> Sara: Meaning electronic or paper form? 28:29.156 --> 28:30.456 >> David: Exactly. 28:30.456 --> 28:31.756 >> Sara: Yeah, both ways. 28:31.756 --> 28:33.056 >> David: Yeah. 28:33.056 --> 28:34.356 >> Sara: Yeah. 28:34.356 --> 28:36.176 Okay. Thanks for vamping for me David. 28:36.176 --> 28:37.476 >> David: It's my pleasure. 28:37.476 --> 28:39.936 >> Sara: Yeah thank you, appreciate that. 28:39.936 --> 28:42.846 >> David: It's not as good as a dance number, 28:42.846 --> 28:44.146 if I had really prepared one. 28:44.146 --> 28:47.876 But here we are, back to your regularly scheduled programming. 28:48.356 --> 28:49.656 >> Sara: Yeah. 28:58.636 --> 29:01.146 Yeah, keep vamping for a moment if you don't mind. 29:01.796 --> 29:04.476 >> David: So one of the things that you'll note 29:04.476 --> 29:07.226 as Sara has gone through the demos, and we actually trimmed 29:07.226 --> 29:11.166 down the number of roles that you're seeing demonstrated 29:11.166 --> 29:13.446 from our original attempted demo. 29:13.446 --> 29:15.656 But one of the things that you're seeing is 29:15.656 --> 29:18.446 that there are actually a number of different things 29:18.446 --> 29:19.866 that people would see 29:19.866 --> 29:24.046 in the enterprise copyright system based upon their role 29:24.046 --> 29:25.346 in the system. 29:25.346 --> 29:28.506 So even inside the copyright office it's not a one size 29:28.506 --> 29:29.806 fits all. 29:29.806 --> 29:31.526 The people who are reviewing statements of account 29:31.526 --> 29:33.766 versus the people who are doing sort of a bulk review, 29:33.766 --> 29:36.276 versus the people who would be doing the research 29:36.276 --> 29:37.986 and record certification reviews are - 29:37.986 --> 29:39.296 are different sets of people. 29:39.296 --> 29:43.266 So one of the things that Sara is juggling quite admirably 29:43.266 --> 29:47.906 today is keeping track of multiple credentials 29:47.966 --> 29:50.546 so that she can show you what the system looks 29:50.546 --> 29:54.496 like from a vast array of different entry points 29:54.496 --> 29:57.766 and levels of - levels of availability, 29:57.766 --> 30:00.726 sort of user roles that people have. 30:01.946 --> 30:03.246 >> Sara: Right. 30:03.246 --> 30:06.836 And it refuses to log me out as myself. 30:06.836 --> 30:09.926 And give me the ability to log in as somebody else, 30:09.926 --> 30:12.636 which is part of the problem I'm having right now. 30:12.636 --> 30:13.936 >> David: All right. 30:13.936 --> 30:15.236 Well we may have a - 30:15.236 --> 30:18.676 >> Sara: Well I mean I can just talk about the third feature 30:18.676 --> 30:21.406 that I was going to show, which was the ability 30:21.406 --> 30:24.176 to ingest a statement of account 30:24.176 --> 30:31.536 where I would have noted the fact that most of the statements 30:31.536 --> 30:33.526 of account that we would be ingesting via 30:33.526 --> 30:38.396 that particular process are received in electronic form. 30:38.396 --> 30:45.016 So that feature shows you know, basically shows you the screen 30:45.016 --> 30:51.096 that an examiner separate from the fiscal staff view 30:51.096 --> 30:56.696 that I was just showing, the examiner view has the ability 30:56.696 --> 30:59.516 to actually perform the ingestion. 30:59.516 --> 31:05.106 To select a statement of account file, and those are Excel files. 31:05.156 --> 31:08.046 And then there's an ingestion process 31:08.326 --> 31:13.506 which notably is not actually attaching the file 31:13.506 --> 31:15.596 to - to the module. 31:15.866 --> 31:19.146 But is rather pulling the data out of the file 31:19.146 --> 31:22.476 so that we can see it in a different format. 31:22.796 --> 31:26.676 And then also worthy of noting is that as an examiner, 31:26.676 --> 31:31.776 once I have successfully ingested the statement account, 31:31.776 --> 31:36.016 I have the temporary option to remove that file, 31:36.486 --> 31:38.216 if I've made an error. 31:38.326 --> 31:42.546 But once I navigate away from that screen as an examiner, 31:42.846 --> 31:45.596 that option is no longer available to me. 31:45.596 --> 31:49.816 So my apologies for the technical difficulties, 31:49.816 --> 31:53.316 nothing like a live demo. 31:53.316 --> 32:01.116 So on - on the - in - in the near future front, 32:01.116 --> 32:06.886 for the licensing product work includes the ability to - 32:07.256 --> 32:12.596 for fiscal staff to process refunds as well 32:12.596 --> 32:16.306 as additional support for fiscal reconciliations. 32:16.946 --> 32:21.606 And with that, I thank you all for joining. 32:21.606 --> 32:24.396 And I thank you for your indulgence 32:24.396 --> 32:27.456 of nothing like a live demo. 32:27.456 --> 32:30.866 And as David said, juggling multiple credentials 32:31.126 --> 32:33.796 in order to show you this. 32:34.206 --> 32:36.016 And with that, back to you David. 32:36.076 --> 32:37.456 >> David: Thank you Sara. 32:37.516 --> 32:40.056 Much appreciated. 32:40.056 --> 32:43.876 And you can feel free to stop your screen share now 32:43.976 --> 32:47.976 and I've got a couple additional questions from panelists, 32:47.976 --> 32:51.736 which - a couple of which I may field directly. 32:51.736 --> 32:55.366 And a couple of which I may hand over to other panelists 32:55.366 --> 33:01.766 from the copyright office and/or our colleagues in OCIO. 33:01.766 --> 33:06.266 So the - a question about the just completed licensing demo 33:06.266 --> 33:09.726 was whether the infrastructure or functionality 33:09.726 --> 33:12.276 on the licensing side is built to anticipate licensing 33:12.276 --> 33:13.766 of other kinds of works. 33:14.046 --> 33:16.676 The example given is literary works. 33:16.676 --> 33:20.086 And the answer to that is - 33:20.516 --> 33:24.386 is probably a resounding yes and no. 33:24.696 --> 33:28.996 I think the - the platform is certainly extensible. 33:29.166 --> 33:31.866 And the platform is owned by the copyright office, 33:31.866 --> 33:34.586 so it's not something that we can't extend. 33:34.586 --> 33:39.226 But I wonder if I might hand it to - hand the microphone 33:39.226 --> 33:41.786 to Jim Karamanos for a minute or one of the - 33:41.786 --> 33:45.656 our other colleagues and OCIO Design and Development to talk 33:45.656 --> 33:49.576 about what the process would be for extending something 33:49.576 --> 33:52.876 like the licensing system to a different category of work, 33:52.876 --> 33:55.976 or possibly Natalie Buda-Smith if Jim is not on. 34:08.716 --> 34:11.926 >> David let's actually pass that on to Mike Nybech. 34:11.926 --> 34:14.276 I think he's the best person to answer that. 34:14.276 --> 34:15.576 And he's on the call. 34:15.576 --> 34:16.876 >> David: Perfect. 34:16.876 --> 34:18.176 Mike I didn't even see you on the call. 34:18.176 --> 34:20.026 I appreciate it very much. 34:20.026 --> 34:22.686 So again, the question is could you talk a little bit 34:22.686 --> 34:26.146 about the process for extending the functionality 34:26.146 --> 34:30.876 that has been built specifically for - in this example 34:30.876 --> 34:34.726 that we're built specifically for satellite royalties 34:34.726 --> 34:37.476 or if it were built specifically for another kind of royalty. 34:37.476 --> 34:42.566 What the process would look like for extending it to something 34:42.566 --> 34:46.496 like licensing of literary works. 34:46.496 --> 34:49.596 >> Mike Nybech: Sure David thank you. 34:49.596 --> 34:52.236 I'd be glad to speak to that briefly. 34:52.236 --> 34:55.276 Don't want to go into a whole lot of technical detail 34:55.276 --> 34:57.716 about how we build these tools, except to state 34:57.716 --> 35:00.456 that whenever we analyze a business problem 35:00.456 --> 35:01.756 that comes across. 35:01.756 --> 35:05.466 We think of it not in terms of just that very specific need, 35:05.466 --> 35:10.146 but we do contemplate larger similar needs to that. 35:10.146 --> 35:12.396 And when we build the actual components to do that, 35:12.396 --> 35:13.976 we build it in a way that is meant 35:13.976 --> 35:16.576 to be extendable and dynamic. 35:16.576 --> 35:18.566 And be able to change over time. 35:18.566 --> 35:22.666 So it does depend on the complexity of the change. 35:22.666 --> 35:26.126 But our entire process, our software engineering process 35:26.126 --> 35:29.006 or program management process is built 35:29.006 --> 35:30.916 around that concept of change. 35:30.916 --> 35:34.326 So we're constantly reaching out to customers about changes. 35:34.326 --> 35:37.326 We're looking at bugs or enhancements. 35:37.326 --> 35:38.626 And all of our cycle 35:38.626 --> 35:41.116 about analyzing those requirements just feed back 35:41.116 --> 35:44.436 into the processes in the system 35:44.436 --> 35:46.376 that built the component in the first place. 35:46.746 --> 35:50.246 So we're - our goal here is to be in a kind 35:50.246 --> 35:52.676 of continuous delivery mode, and for the system 35:52.676 --> 35:54.726 to grow dynamically as the needs 35:54.726 --> 35:57.586 of the United States Copyright Office changes. 35:57.586 --> 36:00.286 We don't consider this a done and walk away. 36:00.286 --> 36:03.106 We're going to be here working on the system 36:03.106 --> 36:04.816 as long as it's needed. 36:05.996 --> 36:07.296 >> David: Thanks Mike. 36:07.296 --> 36:09.546 And that gives me an opportunity actually to - 36:09.546 --> 36:11.686 to give a brief advertisement 36:11.686 --> 36:14.266 for the copyright offices strategic plan, 36:14.486 --> 36:17.096 which if you haven't seen is quite a short document 36:17.096 --> 36:20.486 and it's very readable and it's meant to be very actionable. 36:20.486 --> 36:23.246 But one of the things that we've gotten the most positive 36:23.246 --> 36:28.496 and consistent feedback on is the - 36:28.686 --> 36:32.456 the work of continuous development, which is one 36:32.456 --> 36:35.886 of the four high level strategic goals of the copyright office. 36:35.886 --> 36:37.936 And the continuous development is the recognition 36:37.936 --> 36:41.886 that in the past we have had, we have made the mistake 36:42.106 --> 36:44.916 of doing a flurry of activity to build the system 36:44.916 --> 36:50.176 and the system stagnates and the goal of the current work is not 36:50.176 --> 36:53.126 so much to build the single system, but to put ourselves 36:53.126 --> 36:56.396 on a footing that allows us to continue the development 36:56.396 --> 36:58.866 of those systems over time. 36:58.946 --> 37:01.406 We had one more question come in from a panelist now 37:01.406 --> 37:02.986 that the demo is over. 37:03.306 --> 37:05.736 And the question was specifically 37:06.086 --> 37:11.206 about registration deposit material and who would be able 37:11.286 --> 37:16.256 to access deposit material under which circumstances 37:16.256 --> 37:21.496 and are those deposit materials limited to litigation context. 37:21.496 --> 37:24.606 So with my apologies, our Director of Registration 37:24.606 --> 37:30.376 and our product manager for the registration ECS development are 37:30.376 --> 37:32.136 both on vacation today. 37:32.136 --> 37:34.186 So we're a little bit short handed in the specific way. 37:34.186 --> 37:37.236 But this is a question that I can answer at least 37:37.366 --> 37:38.836 in the broadest sense. 37:38.836 --> 37:44.326 So there is a statutory right for inspection of deposits, 37:44.326 --> 37:46.846 which doesn't mean that we necessarily hand it 37:46.846 --> 37:48.736 over to someone, but for instance 37:48.736 --> 37:50.946 if you make a physical deposit of an item 37:50.946 --> 37:53.306 with a copyright office now, it's possible for somebody 37:53.306 --> 37:57.186 to make a request to inspect that deposit. 37:57.186 --> 38:02.056 And that would not be limited to the context of legal action. 38:02.056 --> 38:06.556 But the functionality that we looked at, actually was 38:06.556 --> 38:10.016 for the request of - requests that come 38:10.106 --> 38:14.766 in for litigation support essentially. 38:15.266 --> 38:19.496 And with that, I would like to invite our members 38:19.496 --> 38:23.786 of the copyright public modernization office to turn 38:23.786 --> 38:30.036 on their cameras and get their finger on the mute button. 38:30.036 --> 38:33.596 And we may want to use that - 38:33.596 --> 38:37.586 or get their finger on the unmute button. 38:37.586 --> 38:42.746 And we may be able to use that as a jumping off point 38:42.746 --> 38:46.506 for conversation by the group. 38:49.096 --> 38:54.576 And I will - I will offer again, that is our intent 38:54.576 --> 38:57.096 in the next public meeting to have our - our director 38:57.096 --> 38:59.876 of registration, our product manager 38:59.876 --> 39:02.636 for the registration product here in live 39:02.636 --> 39:04.776 and in the flesh to provide the demos. 39:04.776 --> 39:08.976 Then maybe we can go into a deeper answer of specific sort 39:08.976 --> 39:13.326 of feature and functionality questions there. 39:13.326 --> 39:18.616 I would also note that there is at least one case now 39:19.106 --> 39:22.496 with electronic copies that are deposited 39:22.496 --> 39:23.796 with the copyright office. 39:23.796 --> 39:28.106 Where they are selected into Library of Congress collections 39:28.266 --> 39:32.216 and presented to patrons of the library 39:32.216 --> 39:35.436 in a rights restricted context. 39:35.436 --> 39:37.766 And that that would be another specific case 39:37.766 --> 39:43.536 where it's not done in a specific litigation context. 39:43.536 --> 39:47.146 So I'd like to next recognize Jeff Sedlock 39:47.146 --> 39:50.236 who is a CPMC member and Jeff feel free 39:50.236 --> 39:51.746 to unmute yourself and jump right in. 39:51.746 --> 39:53.046 >> Jeff Sedlock: Thank you. 39:53.046 --> 39:58.096 So very interested in learning about what the plans for the API 39:58.096 --> 40:02.166 that will allow third parties to develop systems 40:02.166 --> 40:05.956 to enable creators and other copyright holders 40:05.956 --> 40:09.746 to submit registrations through - through the software 40:09.746 --> 40:11.046 that they work in their normal workflow. 40:11.046 --> 40:16.016 And I'd really like to hear more about timeline for when 40:16.016 --> 40:18.506 that might be available and what kind 40:18.506 --> 40:21.406 of progress has been made to date. 40:21.756 --> 40:23.056 >> David: Great. 40:23.056 --> 40:25.186 So I think again we don't have the - 40:25.186 --> 40:28.076 the registration product owners on the call today. 40:28.076 --> 40:33.406 But I think we can flag that for a - for a top topic. 40:33.406 --> 40:37.416 I will say that in general our approach has been 40:37.416 --> 40:42.286 to build the interfaces prior to the API interfaces 40:42.606 --> 40:46.006 And that we are not - we have not completed the work 40:46.006 --> 40:50.086 of the human interfaces for the copyright registration system. 40:50.086 --> 40:53.646 So the human interface, when I talk about that - 40:53.956 --> 41:00.636 part of that is the in-context help, which has been a big part 41:00.636 --> 41:02.606 of what our user testing has identified. 41:02.606 --> 41:06.166 How do people know if something is published or unpublished? 41:06.166 --> 41:07.766 Is a great big question 41:07.766 --> 41:10.326 that nobody really knows the answer to. 41:10.326 --> 41:13.406 Well somebody knows the answer to, but it's a harder question 41:13.406 --> 41:15.346 to answer than it seems like it should be. 41:15.806 --> 41:20.296 But I also did want to offer that I think 41:20.336 --> 41:25.736 that there has been - that this is a broad area of - 41:25.776 --> 41:28.006 that this is a broad area 41:28.536 --> 41:31.776 of investigation by the whole agency. 41:31.776 --> 41:38.486 Sort of how system to system access will be enabled 41:38.486 --> 41:40.056 by various systems. 41:40.056 --> 41:45.186 And that there has been some work has gone 41:45.416 --> 41:49.846 into if you've seen in the broader agency there's a page 41:49.846 --> 41:53.386 on loc.gov called LC for robots, which sort of talks 41:53.386 --> 41:55.846 about how some of that kind of work has been done. 41:55.846 --> 42:01.186 And I know that LC Labs has also begun some investigatory avenues 42:01.186 --> 42:05.976 about how to use Library of Congress collections in - 42:05.976 --> 42:08.636 in a programmatic way. 42:09.096 --> 42:16.486 I will say that the - the work on something as far as along 42:16.486 --> 42:18.186 as what you just described. 42:18.226 --> 42:19.526 The ability for someone 42:19.526 --> 42:22.736 to programmatically submit a registration claim is - 42:22.736 --> 42:24.566 is essentially not the gun. 42:24.776 --> 42:26.536 That's far on the horizon. 42:26.536 --> 42:31.646 With that said, I think there are some shorter you know, 42:31.646 --> 42:35.806 some possible half steps that are before even 42:35.856 --> 42:39.456 if the registration claim couldn't be done entirely 42:39.456 --> 42:40.756 by API. 42:40.756 --> 42:42.056 One of the things that we're looking 42:42.056 --> 42:43.876 at is whether it's possible for you know, 42:43.876 --> 42:48.246 to have uploads happen via an API, 42:48.316 --> 42:50.446 even if the registration claim itself had to be made. 42:50.446 --> 42:53.426 Or, if they're good - but again this is really exploratory 42:53.426 --> 42:54.726 at this point. 42:54.726 --> 42:57.406 And we're really focused on primarily the - 42:57.406 --> 42:59.366 the human interface aspects. 42:59.366 --> 43:05.166 >> Just a brief follow up then so as a development philosophy, 43:05.166 --> 43:08.036 there are any number of ways to go as we all know. 43:08.286 --> 43:12.626 One way is to build a system kind of API first. 43:12.626 --> 43:14.736 And I don't know what the technical term for that is, 43:14.736 --> 43:20.596 but then you build the copyright office, UI and UX to attach 43:20.716 --> 43:22.756 that API as one example of a system 43:22.756 --> 43:24.056 that can attach to that API. 43:24.646 --> 43:26.476 Because if you first build a system 43:26.476 --> 43:29.626 without considering everything that has to go on with the API 43:29.626 --> 43:33.586 and circling back on it, becomes a labor 43:33.586 --> 43:36.796 of love shall we say of many decades. 43:36.796 --> 43:39.846 And so I think it would be - because this is top of mind 43:39.846 --> 43:41.576 for especially in the photography space, 43:41.576 --> 43:45.706 the visual artist space I think it would be great for the office 43:45.706 --> 43:47.686 or the library to have some messaging 43:48.036 --> 43:51.166 on what the plan is for that. 43:51.166 --> 43:55.146 Because visual artists especially are very focused, 43:55.146 --> 43:57.326 and excited about the prospect of being able 43:57.326 --> 44:00.366 to submit registrations from within their workflow. 44:00.366 --> 44:01.726 And if that's just not going 44:01.996 --> 44:04.666 to happen then they should just be told that so 44:04.666 --> 44:06.766 that they can be excited about being able 44:06.766 --> 44:09.806 to submit uploads possibly through an API. 44:09.806 --> 44:11.106 >> David: Right. 44:11.106 --> 44:15.096 Jeff thank you and I have flagged that in my notes 44:15.096 --> 44:16.456 for additional follow up. 44:16.456 --> 44:19.266 And I appreciate the input. 44:19.266 --> 44:23.586 And certainly this is you know not the only time the office has 44:23.586 --> 44:26.806 sort of heard this about photography in particular. 44:26.806 --> 44:29.346 So it's good to have it reconfirmed here 44:29.346 --> 44:30.646 in this context. 44:30.646 --> 44:31.946 >> Jeff: Thank you. 44:32.246 --> 44:35.386 >> David: I'd like to throw it open to the - I have - 44:35.386 --> 44:44.006 I have prepared some additional thought questions 44:44.006 --> 44:46.496 for - for the group. 44:46.676 --> 44:52.846 But it looks like Susan Jerkoff has - has her hand raised. 44:52.846 --> 44:54.146 So Susan go ahead. 44:54.146 --> 44:56.636 >> Susan Jerkoff: So this is sort of a follow 44:56.636 --> 45:01.826 up to what Jeff was asking about, but not directly I guess. 45:01.826 --> 45:05.376 But it's the same question I ask each time which is 45:05.376 --> 45:08.016 about bulk processing. 45:08.016 --> 45:11.366 So for large copyright owners, 45:11.366 --> 45:16.376 I work for the recording industry association of America. 45:16.376 --> 45:19.026 My members are large record companies. 45:19.106 --> 45:23.316 They have new, you know numerous new releases each week. 45:23.406 --> 45:27.176 They would like to be able to sit down once a week 45:27.176 --> 45:30.646 and you know register 40 works at once. 45:30.646 --> 45:35.526 And be able to do it in some efficient way and not have 45:35.946 --> 45:38.146 to refill all the basic information 45:38.146 --> 45:40.626 that goes in every application. 45:40.626 --> 45:45.496 Not have to upload whatever digital deposits they might be 45:45.496 --> 45:46.936 submitting one by one. 45:46.936 --> 45:48.566 I'd have to pay one by one. 45:48.826 --> 45:53.506 And most importantly not have the system freeze 45:53.506 --> 45:55.376 when they're doing this, 45:55.376 --> 45:57.356 which is what they tell me happens all the time. 45:57.356 --> 46:03.586 And so is that in the pipeline yet for kind 46:03.586 --> 46:07.896 of the first rendition of the new system. 46:08.126 --> 46:09.536 >> David: That's a great question. 46:09.536 --> 46:13.626 So one of the things that we were hoping to do a little bit 46:13.626 --> 46:18.096 with both the release of the recordation system, 46:18.096 --> 46:19.966 which is coming up this next week. 46:19.966 --> 46:22.636 As well as with the demo of the licensing system, 46:22.636 --> 46:24.866 is to show a little bit 46:24.866 --> 46:28.056 of how the office has been working on bulk processes. 46:28.056 --> 46:30.506 Most of what - what you would have seen 46:30.506 --> 46:36.306 in the recordation demo that we did before really is almost all 46:36.306 --> 46:40.616 bulk processes that are come out of a data file, 46:40.616 --> 46:44.476 rather than just one by one entry of fields. 46:44.476 --> 46:47.556 And same goes for the statement of accounts review 46:47.556 --> 46:49.016 that we were looking at. 46:49.016 --> 46:54.046 So certainly this topic is near and dear to our hearts. 46:54.046 --> 47:02.576 I wonder if on the topic of bulk - bulk operations 47:02.576 --> 47:09.196 if Natalie Buda-Smith from OCIO who is our - who is our head 47:09.196 --> 47:12.746 of user experience design might want to talk 47:12.746 --> 47:14.046 about that a little bit. 47:14.046 --> 47:17.906 And about what we've heard in some of the user feedback 47:17.906 --> 47:19.206 that we've already gotten. 47:19.206 --> 47:22.036 I know this has been a topic that has been - 47:22.036 --> 47:23.936 Natalie are you - are you with us? 47:24.056 --> 47:26.126 >> Natalie Buda-Smith: Yeah I'm here. 47:26.126 --> 47:30.956 Yeah I can just briefly - we do know it is something 47:31.056 --> 47:34.436 that is highly valuable to our end users. 47:34.436 --> 47:36.846 It comes up often in our user research. 47:37.016 --> 47:40.786 And it is something that is in discovery in order 47:40.936 --> 47:44.006 to understand you know all the what's needed. 47:44.276 --> 47:49.286 So it is currently something that we're pursuing 47:49.286 --> 47:52.236 from a design perspective and understanding 47:52.236 --> 47:54.706 through user research and user feedback 47:54.706 --> 47:57.736 that referenced earlier in our call. 47:57.736 --> 47:59.536 I don't have any more specifics to give you. 47:59.536 --> 48:04.266 But we do know, and the products team does know that this is 48:04.266 --> 48:06.796 of high value to our users. 48:07.586 --> 48:09.376 >> That's great. 48:09.376 --> 48:12.506 And if I could help connect you with people 48:12.506 --> 48:16.146 at my member companies who could walk you 48:16.146 --> 48:17.936 through what their specific needs are, 48:18.126 --> 48:19.696 I'd be happy to do that. 48:19.856 --> 48:21.426 >> Sure thing, we would love to have. 48:21.426 --> 48:24.366 Any - any sort of contact for people to use 48:24.366 --> 48:26.646 in our user research, we adore that. 48:26.646 --> 48:27.946 Please send it our way. 48:27.946 --> 48:29.246 Thank you. 48:29.246 --> 48:31.726 >> David: I'm smiling because this is something 48:31.726 --> 48:35.046 that Natalie has often asking the copyright office for. 48:35.046 --> 48:36.916 So this is a good connection to be made. 48:36.916 --> 48:38.846 And thank you Susan for that. 48:38.846 --> 48:41.846 >> Should I just correspond with you David to - 48:41.846 --> 48:43.956 >> David: Yeah, with Ellis and I both, 48:44.066 --> 48:50.196 and that's extremely helpful. 48:50.196 --> 48:54.796 I will - I will confess now that when we have reached 48:54.796 --> 49:00.886 out to people who have volunteered to do user testing 49:00.946 --> 49:05.416 or user research with us, the uptake has not always been 49:05.536 --> 49:08.996 as high at the point of actually getting to doing the work 49:08.996 --> 49:10.296 as we hoped it would be. 49:10.296 --> 49:13.876 And it is in fact, it's kind of an onerous process. 49:13.876 --> 49:20.406 So sometimes the time delay between getting - 49:20.976 --> 49:24.086 providing your feedback and then sort 49:24.086 --> 49:26.706 of seeing how the feedback has been incorporated is quite long 49:26.706 --> 49:29.226 for people who - people are expecting to see it 49:29.226 --> 49:32.756 on the same phone call or - or the next day 49:32.756 --> 49:35.286 and really what happens is it gets fed 49:35.286 --> 49:38.206 into the agile software development process. 49:38.206 --> 49:42.326 And goes you know; it sort of takes time to percolate back 49:42.326 --> 49:44.266 through subsequent releases. 49:44.266 --> 49:47.736 So it's good to have the more we can have the assistance 49:47.736 --> 49:51.766 of people like yourself to sort of get people excited 49:51.766 --> 49:53.966 about helping us with the testing process, 49:53.966 --> 50:01.236 to give you all a sense of the pilot program 50:01.516 --> 50:08.446 for the recordation system that's going live, has - 50:08.446 --> 50:12.326 has I think gone through something like eight - 50:12.326 --> 50:15.686 over 8,000 recorded document have been sort of taken 50:15.686 --> 50:16.986 through the pilot system during the feedback process. 50:17.116 --> 50:20.746 And iteratively improved. 50:20.746 --> 50:25.196 And as you - as you may have noted the release 1.8 that's 50:25.196 --> 50:27.746 going out, which is the release that's going out to the public 50:27.746 --> 50:31.306 that means that we've had eight major releases that have gone 50:31.356 --> 50:34.216 out while we've been incorporating the feedback 50:34.216 --> 50:38.806 from - from real users of the system, who are using the system 50:38.806 --> 50:42.436 to - to record documents. 50:42.436 --> 50:46.896 So I know - I know we've had a little bit of chat specifically 50:46.896 --> 50:51.806 about a question that we had expounding on digital work. 50:51.806 --> 50:55.176 And I wanted to just give Sara Garski a chance to put - 50:55.236 --> 50:59.996 turn on your camera again and talk to us a little bit 50:59.996 --> 51:04.186 about the - the - what the born digital work there 51:04.186 --> 51:05.486 was referencing. 51:05.646 --> 51:06.946 >> Sara Garski: Right. 51:06.946 --> 51:14.556 So the - Jim asked the question about born digital works. 51:14.556 --> 51:19.386 And so my apologies if I was not super, 51:19.386 --> 51:24.386 super clear that the design work that has been done is 51:24.386 --> 51:27.576 on a born digital refusal letter. 51:27.576 --> 51:31.616 Claim refusal letter, so it has nothing to do - 51:31.616 --> 51:36.036 nothing inherently to do with a specific kind of work, 51:36.036 --> 51:40.256 whether it's born digital or not born digital. 51:40.256 --> 51:43.346 So again the intent is that this is a sort 51:43.346 --> 51:48.476 of an artifact associated with the claim 51:48.476 --> 51:50.866 that could follow the registration 51:50.866 --> 51:53.926 through the system throughout it's entire life cycle. 51:53.926 --> 51:59.886 And it would be primarily digital, but could be printed 51:59.886 --> 52:04.026 and you know, sent via US Postal mail if needed. 52:05.366 --> 52:06.666 Hope that helps. 52:06.666 --> 52:09.096 >> David: Thank you, that's very helpful. 52:09.096 --> 52:10.396 >> Sara Garski: Okay. 52:10.396 --> 52:12.256 >> David: It is interesting, even - so I'm - 52:12.476 --> 52:17.456 I'm coming up on my 15th year of federal service. 52:17.456 --> 52:19.726 And for those of you who are also in federal service, 52:19.726 --> 52:25.016 you know that 15 years is a big time when the vacation time goes 52:25.016 --> 52:29.236 up at the end of 15 years in a federal agency. 52:29.236 --> 52:34.786 But I - in my 15 years in the agency one of the switches 52:34.786 --> 52:39.606 that has happened is we tend to think of the physical thing 52:39.606 --> 52:43.216 as a printout of the original now, rather than thinking 52:43.216 --> 52:46.086 of the digital thing as a scan of the printed one. 52:46.116 --> 52:51.786 It does - it has just sort of - it has flipped over entirely. 52:51.786 --> 52:56.516 So we had another question on the side from one of our members 52:56.516 --> 53:00.566 that was talking about what kinds 53:00.566 --> 53:05.956 of users we would be interested in doing user testing with. 53:05.956 --> 53:10.776 And the specific question was would there be interest in users 53:10.776 --> 53:12.906 who are trying to ascertain right status for something 53:12.906 --> 53:14.746 like an exhibition or education 53:15.026 --> 53:17.026 or research or scholarship needs. 53:17.206 --> 53:21.746 So I wanted - I wanted to offer that there's a - 53:21.746 --> 53:24.916 there's a I guess a captive audience here. 53:24.916 --> 53:33.026 We have a little bit of a captive audience at the Library 53:33.026 --> 53:36.356 of Congress of this sort of user group 53:36.356 --> 53:42.566 who have been extremely gracious with their time in looking 53:42.566 --> 53:44.616 at the way that these systems work. 53:44.616 --> 53:49.436 And those are the sort of librarians and the state 53:49.436 --> 53:51.306 of the Library of Congress specifically. 53:51.306 --> 53:57.326 However, this is - there is a broad need for this - 53:57.326 --> 54:01.596 particularly the systems that are used for research by members 54:01.596 --> 54:03.926 of the public to ascertain rights. 54:03.926 --> 54:07.086 There's a broad need for those to be useful to the widest array 54:07.086 --> 54:09.686 of purpose, you know for the widest array of purposes. 54:09.936 --> 54:16.466 Not just for the - the users who are actually inputting the - 54:16.466 --> 54:18.506 the data into the system in the first place. 54:18.506 --> 54:22.986 I would also note that as we have begun 54:23.316 --> 54:29.066 to publish the historic record, the historical records online, 54:29.066 --> 54:32.056 which previously the primary way. 54:32.056 --> 54:35.766 There were two primary ways for people to get access 54:35.766 --> 54:38.276 to the copyright offices historical records. 54:39.746 --> 54:45.836 The first and most common way was to either live in or fly 54:45.836 --> 54:49.036 to Washington DC and come to a reading room 54:49.376 --> 54:51.566 at the Library of Congress. 54:51.566 --> 54:53.056 And look at books. 54:53.466 --> 54:58.076 The copy of these - the primary copy of these was just sitting 54:58.076 --> 54:59.376 in a reading room at the Library. 54:59.376 --> 55:02.676 And there's all sorts of reasons 55:02.676 --> 55:08.006 that that specific process was not ideal for the researchers 55:08.006 --> 55:10.176 and was not ideal for the copyright office. 55:10.276 --> 55:17.986 But there are - there are extremely many new reasons 55:18.096 --> 55:21.676 from a global pandemic that have taught us that when we close 55:21.676 --> 55:25.266 down the reading rooms and that when people are unable 55:25.436 --> 55:29.236 to travel, and that when the economy is largely shut 55:29.236 --> 55:31.806 down that the inability to do that kind 55:31.806 --> 55:35.046 of research is a real impediment. 55:35.046 --> 55:38.076 And then the second way is actually we talked a little bit 55:38.076 --> 55:41.016 about in the earlier demo the research 55:41.016 --> 55:43.696 and record certification. 55:43.696 --> 55:47.496 The process of going through and getting some - a researcher 55:47.496 --> 55:53.896 at the library to do the - the kind of - the kind of research. 55:53.896 --> 55:57.306 So going - looping back one more - one more time to the - 55:57.486 --> 56:01.346 to the previous question about what kinds of users we'd 56:01.346 --> 56:02.646 like to have using the system. 56:02.646 --> 56:07.876 We absolutely have room now for users who are - 56:07.876 --> 56:10.906 and Natalie has reconfirmed this repeatedly with us, 56:10.906 --> 56:16.186 for users who are of the novice sort and I would also add 56:16.186 --> 56:19.796 that there is - that [inaudible] public record system, 56:19.796 --> 56:23.106 which is the primary system that would be used for this sort 56:23.106 --> 56:27.596 of purpose right now is in a live pilot and is starting 56:27.596 --> 56:30.016 to come out of pilot but there's actually a feedback mechanism 56:30.076 --> 56:34.956 on public records.copyright.gov for that - for that kind 56:34.956 --> 56:36.496 of feedback to be provided directly. 56:36.496 --> 56:42.156 And I can tell you that we - again we don't get 56:42.156 --> 56:45.416 as much feedback as we hope we will. 56:45.416 --> 56:48.406 And we don't get as much uptake 56:48.406 --> 56:50.246 on the user testing as we hope we will. 56:50.606 --> 56:55.656 And it means that the more we get by this kind 56:55.656 --> 56:57.086 of mechanism, the better. 56:57.086 --> 56:59.136 I've just gotten a note from our director 56:59.136 --> 57:02.276 of copyright records saying them ore feedback the better 57:02.276 --> 57:04.086 with two exclamation points. 57:04.086 --> 57:08.366 And that is really - that is really an open invitation 57:08.366 --> 57:10.966 to everyone who is listening from members of the public 57:10.966 --> 57:15.506 as well as members of this committee to send 57:15.506 --> 57:18.116 out to your stakeholders. 57:18.116 --> 57:22.556 So I'd like to recognize Keith Cooper-Schmidt next. 57:22.696 --> 57:23.996 Keith take it away. 57:23.996 --> 57:25.296 >> Keith Cooper-Schmidt: Thank you. 57:25.296 --> 57:29.016 So a lot of the things you just said, everyone else 57:29.016 --> 57:31.446 on the panel maybe completely understand, 57:31.446 --> 57:35.536 I did not so excuse my ignorance here and maybe the stupidity 57:35.536 --> 57:37.276 of my questions that will come up next. 57:37.356 --> 57:41.376 So my - okay so first off, several different questions. 57:41.376 --> 57:42.676 I'll start with the first one, 57:42.676 --> 57:45.466 which is when you talk about records. 57:45.796 --> 57:47.396 What is encompassed in a record? 57:47.396 --> 57:49.556 Is it just copyright data? 57:49.556 --> 57:51.986 Is it the actual copyright application 57:52.406 --> 57:54.336 or registration certificate? 57:54.336 --> 57:58.626 Is it all of that plus the copy - what do you mean by records? 57:58.626 --> 57:59.926 >> David: That's a great question. 57:59.926 --> 58:04.376 So when we talk about records, we internally that's shorthand 58:04.626 --> 58:07.626 for essentially in the olden days you could think of that 58:07.626 --> 58:10.176 as the form that was filled out, not the deposit copy. 58:10.176 --> 58:11.746 So typically when we talk 58:11.746 --> 58:16.996 about the actual deposit copies we say deposit copies. 58:16.996 --> 58:20.056 And when we talk about records we're talking about something 58:20.056 --> 58:23.026 that has a record retention policy with Nara. 58:23.376 --> 58:26.056 Which means that we have a - it has a - here's the number 58:26.056 --> 58:27.356 of years that you keep it. 58:27.356 --> 58:28.656 And here who is allowed to see it. 58:28.656 --> 58:30.366 And here's what happens with it when it's - 58:30.366 --> 58:32.476 here's the disposition of it when it goes 58:32.476 --> 58:35.046 out of the copyright office. 58:35.046 --> 58:36.346 And thanks for that. 58:36.346 --> 58:38.976 I don't think that was a - I don't think 58:38.976 --> 58:40.386 that was a stupid question at all. 58:40.386 --> 58:43.606 I just admitted to 15 years of federal service, 58:43.606 --> 58:45.596 but I would say 12 years into federal service, 58:45.596 --> 58:47.516 I would not have known the answer to the question. 58:47.516 --> 58:49.906 And so I apologize for using that shorthand. 58:49.906 --> 58:52.836 So thank you for clarifying that for everybody on the call. 58:52.836 --> 58:57.376 >> Okay so then a follow up question to that which is if - 58:57.376 --> 59:00.776 is the record information just the data 59:00.776 --> 59:02.256 on the form, or the form itself? 59:02.256 --> 59:03.626 And the reason I ask is this came 59:03.626 --> 59:06.696 up on a separate Zoom or whatever. 59:06.976 --> 59:10.126 Let's say somebody in their application accidentally puts 59:10.126 --> 59:12.306 their social security number on there, or something else 59:12.306 --> 59:14.336 that might be PII or something like that. 59:14.336 --> 59:20.116 So is it just the data that is made - made available 59:20.596 --> 59:23.936 or is it the actual form and maybe some 59:23.936 --> 59:25.846 of that form is redacted or something like that? 59:25.846 --> 59:27.896 >> David: So it is - 59:27.896 --> 59:30.966 public records includes the index information 59:30.966 --> 59:33.426 from the registration, which is like the data, 59:33.426 --> 59:34.776 what you would think of as the data. 59:34.776 --> 59:37.616 But also includes the application. 59:37.616 --> 59:43.906 And I would point out too that even though the shorthand, 59:43.906 --> 59:45.916 when I talk about - about records, 59:45.956 --> 59:48.536 the deposit copies are - they are subject 59:48.536 --> 59:50.226 to a record retention policy as well. 59:50.226 --> 59:52.936 We do - those are technically records. 59:52.936 --> 59:54.716 When I was talking about records, 59:54.716 --> 59:58.336 so the copyright public record system doesn't currently have 59:58.736 --> 1:00:02.756 deposit - deposit copies in it. 1:00:02.756 --> 1:00:04.266 >> Okay and last of my questions, 1:00:04.266 --> 1:00:06.046 and I see other people lining up, so I'll stop. 1:00:06.046 --> 1:00:09.686 But you mentioned that it used to be that - 1:00:09.686 --> 1:00:12.506 I think that you could only get these records by going 1:00:12.506 --> 1:00:14.976 to the reading room and accessing these records. 1:00:15.046 --> 1:00:19.686 And it sounds like either before or during the pandemic, 1:00:19.686 --> 1:00:20.986 I'd love to say after, 1:00:20.986 --> 1:00:23.046 but unfortunately we're still dealing with that. 1:00:23.046 --> 1:00:26.946 But that - now you've kind of loosened that up 1:00:26.946 --> 1:00:28.246 and there's other ways. 1:00:28.246 --> 1:00:31.096 Can you talk a little bit about how without going 1:00:31.096 --> 1:00:32.476 to a reading room obviously, 1:00:32.476 --> 1:00:35.176 if the copyright office people could access that, 1:00:35.336 --> 1:00:36.906 those records and I'll stop there? 1:00:36.986 --> 1:00:38.316 >> David: Yeah that's a great question. 1:00:38.316 --> 1:00:40.296 I feel like that was almost a - 1:00:40.296 --> 1:00:44.306 I mean I just swear Keith is not a ringer in this context. 1:00:44.456 --> 1:00:49.546 This is not - so this is a great - this gives me a chance to sort 1:00:49.546 --> 1:00:55.696 of give a - an advertisement for some of the work we've done 1:00:55.696 --> 1:00:58.166 to sort of open us up. 1:00:58.166 --> 1:01:01.986 In some ways it was a little bit coincidental 1:01:01.986 --> 1:01:05.536 that it happened during the pandemic, because it was work 1:01:05.536 --> 1:01:07.766 that had been begun before the pandemic. 1:01:07.766 --> 1:01:12.146 So the first thing is that the historical public records, 1:01:12.276 --> 1:01:19.466 and in this context records means the 26,000 bound volumes 1:01:19.866 --> 1:01:21.946 of registration applications. 1:01:22.396 --> 1:01:29.006 There - these are the actual like physical registration copy 1:01:29.006 --> 1:01:32.286 that was sent to the copyright office beginning all the way 1:01:32.286 --> 1:01:34.026 back in - in the 1800's. 1:01:34.516 --> 1:01:38.936 Those volumes we have begun to digitize 1:01:39.246 --> 1:01:41.716 and post online at loc.gov. 1:01:41.716 --> 1:01:46.066 And we began with the most recent ones that were - 1:01:46.066 --> 1:01:48.896 that were done in the paper process 1:01:48.896 --> 1:01:52.856 that we don't have electronic claims for, 1:01:52.856 --> 1:01:54.456 which are in the late '70's. 1:01:54.456 --> 1:01:56.386 And I've been moving backward in time. 1:01:56.566 --> 1:02:00.696 So that's the first thing is that for the first time someone 1:02:00.696 --> 1:02:02.906 who used to have to come to the copyright office 1:02:02.906 --> 1:02:07.186 and request a book and then wait for the book can just go on now 1:02:07.436 --> 1:02:10.046 and browse the book on loc.gov. 1:02:10.156 --> 1:02:13.566 Which is a big - it's a big improvement. 1:02:13.566 --> 1:02:15.096 And then the second thing is 1:02:15.306 --> 1:02:17.666 that public records.copyright.gov 1:02:17.666 --> 1:02:21.766 which is it's the copyright public record system has been 1:02:21.766 --> 1:02:24.606 having increasing data available in it 1:02:24.606 --> 1:02:29.666 and increasing information available to it, which is sort 1:02:29.666 --> 1:02:31.216 of the second category that you pointed out. 1:02:31.216 --> 1:02:35.766 It's the data on the forms primarily in this case. 1:02:36.136 --> 1:02:41.896 And in this case if - if you go to public records.copyright.gov 1:02:41.896 --> 1:02:44.366 and you search for David Brunton you'll see 1:02:44.366 --> 1:02:48.406 that somebody named David Brunton registered a poem 1:02:48.406 --> 1:02:53.656 in the - with the United States copyright office coincidentally 1:02:53.656 --> 1:02:56.436 on what happened to be my first day of work here. 1:02:56.436 --> 1:03:01.166 And but you will not see the poem itself. 1:03:01.166 --> 1:03:07.546 It's just a record about the registration of the poem. 1:03:07.546 --> 1:03:11.756 And the publishing of that information is - 1:03:12.346 --> 1:03:14.196 is it's a statutory requirement 1:03:14.196 --> 1:03:16.496 that that be made available to the public. 1:03:16.496 --> 1:03:20.746 And we are starting now to make the 1870 1:03:20.746 --> 1:03:26.366 to 1977 information available in a way that's more 1:03:26.366 --> 1:03:31.146 like the post 1977 information available. 1:03:31.146 --> 1:03:36.736 So that's a slow process that starts with scanning old books. 1:03:36.856 --> 1:03:40.376 Much appreciated Keith and I think the next person 1:03:40.376 --> 1:03:42.576 with the hand up was Jeff Sedlock again, 1:03:42.576 --> 1:03:44.826 so Jeff could you unmute yourself and jump in. 1:03:45.006 --> 1:03:46.306 >> Jeff Sedlock: Sure. 1:03:46.306 --> 1:03:49.406 So we're talking about going digital and paper 1:03:49.406 --> 1:03:53.186 and which comes first these days and I think you're right. 1:03:53.186 --> 1:03:54.826 And that brings to mind, 1:03:54.826 --> 1:03:57.936 I know the registration people are not on this call. 1:03:57.936 --> 1:03:59.716 But this is being recorded and we can watch it 1:03:59.716 --> 1:04:01.466 and hopefully address it in a later meeting 1:04:01.466 --> 1:04:04.226 because there's these gaps between the meetings. 1:04:04.226 --> 1:04:09.296 The regulations in - in good measure were written - 1:04:09.296 --> 1:04:12.986 as to the registration process we're written 1:04:13.476 --> 1:04:16.876 to support paper registrations. 1:04:16.876 --> 1:04:21.936 And the office has done a good job of updating them to be more 1:04:21.936 --> 1:04:23.976 in line with online registration. 1:04:23.976 --> 1:04:26.906 But that process has been limited by the inefficiencies 1:04:27.106 --> 1:04:29.836 of the current system, which is not a good system. 1:04:29.836 --> 1:04:32.426 Good people, bad system; right? 1:04:32.426 --> 1:04:38.386 So - so a big deal for those users of the system, 1:04:38.386 --> 1:04:40.486 especially in the visual arts world where I come 1:04:40.486 --> 1:04:44.246 from is knowing whether it's the offices intent to go through 1:04:44.306 --> 1:04:49.386 and update the regulations once there's a more efficient system 1:04:49.386 --> 1:04:50.686 in place. 1:04:50.686 --> 1:04:53.286 To kind of move out and set aside the limitations 1:04:53.286 --> 1:04:56.396 that were placed on registrations at a time 1:04:56.446 --> 1:04:58.276 when you had to fill out a piece of paper 1:04:58.276 --> 1:05:01.916 and somebody was designing a form in the late '70's or '80's 1:05:01.916 --> 1:05:05.416 and now we're suffering with those regulations 1:05:05.416 --> 1:05:09.836 that require things like separating group registrations 1:05:09.836 --> 1:05:12.916 by the year of - of first publication, 1:05:12.916 --> 1:05:15.956 which there's no statutory justification for that. 1:05:15.956 --> 1:05:18.886 there is statutory justification for indicating the date - 1:05:18.886 --> 1:05:21.536 the month and year of first publication. 1:05:21.836 --> 1:05:26.766 But it's a huge expense and a huge burden for visual artists, 1:05:26.766 --> 1:05:28.436 at least and I think for all creators to have 1:05:28.436 --> 1:05:30.356 to separate their registrations 1:05:30.356 --> 1:05:32.526 by the year of first publication. 1:05:32.526 --> 1:05:35.586 And for some they just give up when faced with trying 1:05:35.586 --> 1:05:37.116 to organize their registrations. 1:05:37.116 --> 1:05:39.616 And incur that separate expense for each and every year 1:05:39.616 --> 1:05:41.656 in which something was first published. 1:05:41.656 --> 1:05:47.186 The second example would be in 2018 the office put a limitation 1:05:47.186 --> 1:05:50.896 of 750 works on group registrations of photographs, 1:05:50.896 --> 1:05:52.646 both unpublished and published. 1:05:52.646 --> 1:05:55.036 Previous to that there was no limitation provided 1:05:55.036 --> 1:05:56.696 that you didn't use the continuation form. 1:05:56.876 --> 1:05:59.896 You can submit 100,000 works that some photographers did 1:05:59.896 --> 1:06:01.196 on individual registrations. 1:06:01.196 --> 1:06:02.816 And what that did was put a tremendous burden 1:06:02.816 --> 1:06:06.626 on the examiners who were using this very inefficient difficult 1:06:06.626 --> 1:06:09.606 to use system they couldn't review images all 1:06:09.606 --> 1:06:10.906 on the same screen. 1:06:10.906 --> 1:06:12.206 It was a hot mess. 1:06:12.206 --> 1:06:15.256 So there was a justification for placing that limit temporarily. 1:06:15.676 --> 1:06:17.886 But I would very much like to know 1:06:17.886 --> 1:06:20.676 if the office would intend to relax that. 1:06:20.676 --> 1:06:23.186 Because taking photographers for example, 1:06:23.486 --> 1:06:26.816 a photographer might create 2,000 to 4,000 works, 1:06:26.816 --> 1:06:28.796 distinct copyrighted works in a single day. 1:06:28.796 --> 1:06:32.316 It's very much unlike registering a book or any type 1:06:32.366 --> 1:06:34.006 of work even an illustration. 1:06:34.006 --> 1:06:38.556 And so 2,000 to 4,000 works they're being - they're faced 1:06:38.556 --> 1:06:42.706 with this Hobson's choice now of which works can they register? 1:06:42.706 --> 1:06:45.716 Which works are most likely to be infringed? 1:06:45.716 --> 1:06:48.486 They can't afford to break that apart and spend hundreds 1:06:48.486 --> 1:06:50.866 of dollars to register just one day's work, 1:06:50.866 --> 1:06:52.896 let alone one weeks work. 1:06:52.896 --> 1:06:55.226 And so it would be great to see - 1:06:55.226 --> 1:06:58.416 to know if the office would be considering relaxing 1:06:58.586 --> 1:07:01.996 that number, that limitation that was placed in 2018 1:07:01.996 --> 1:07:04.146 to allow us to register more works 1:07:04.146 --> 1:07:06.546 on a single group registration, also to allow us 1:07:06.546 --> 1:07:08.866 to register works that were first published 1:07:08.866 --> 1:07:12.256 in different calendar years on the same group registration. 1:07:12.256 --> 1:07:13.556 >> David: Thank you for that. 1:07:13.556 --> 1:07:15.986 And those are great questions and that's exactly the way 1:07:15.986 --> 1:07:20.476 that the office is thinking through many of these. 1:07:20.476 --> 1:07:23.606 I think specifically for the - the question 1:07:23.646 --> 1:07:27.556 of the registration policy aspects of it. 1:07:27.556 --> 1:07:30.136 There are some parts of that that are going to be subject 1:07:30.236 --> 1:07:33.136 to the public comment process and the rule making process. 1:07:33.136 --> 1:07:37.286 But I can tell you that from a technical perspective 1:07:37.286 --> 1:07:42.416 specifically that there are two areas where we have limitations 1:07:42.416 --> 1:07:45.856 on our side that have been sort of frustrating 1:07:45.856 --> 1:07:49.226 to the copyright office and frustrating to people who are - 1:07:49.226 --> 1:07:51.116 who are users of the copyright office. 1:07:51.116 --> 1:07:53.206 People interact with the copyright office. 1:07:53.206 --> 1:07:56.896 One is limitations on the size of an upload. 1:07:56.896 --> 1:07:59.726 And that - I mean literally just like the file size. 1:07:59.726 --> 1:08:02.586 And two is the limitation on the number 1:08:02.586 --> 1:08:05.886 of file numbers, of file names. 1:08:05.886 --> 1:08:09.366 And that from a technical perspective those are very much 1:08:09.426 --> 1:08:13.966 areas where we're looking at how we can overcome the limitations 1:08:13.966 --> 1:08:15.816 of the existing legacy system. 1:08:15.816 --> 1:08:20.046 Now as far as would the office revisit the - 1:08:20.046 --> 1:08:23.056 the rule making process and sort of how 1:08:23.056 --> 1:08:24.786 that process would conduct. 1:08:24.786 --> 1:08:27.586 I can't comment on that, but I can - I can't tell you 1:08:27.586 --> 1:08:30.356 that from a technical perspective we're actively 1:08:30.356 --> 1:08:33.796 pursuing ways to overcome the technical limitations 1:08:33.796 --> 1:08:35.096 that were put in place. 1:08:35.096 --> 1:08:38.816 And those aren't the only cases where the legacy system, 1:08:38.956 --> 1:08:42.846 which none of us on this call are huge fans of, have - 1:08:42.846 --> 1:08:46.536 have sort of provided limitations to what we can do. 1:08:46.536 --> 1:08:49.696 Does that answer your question Jeff? 1:08:49.696 --> 1:08:52.636 And also I bookmarked this - I've got my clipboard 1:08:52.636 --> 1:08:54.106 where I'm making my notes. 1:08:54.106 --> 1:08:57.756 I bookmarked this for - for a specific question for us to dive 1:08:57.756 --> 1:09:00.316 into in the registration deep dive as well. 1:09:00.516 --> 1:09:01.816 >> Jeff: It does. 1:09:01.816 --> 1:09:04.166 Just a brief clarification request. 1:09:04.166 --> 1:09:06.636 So there - in earlier presentation it was mentioned 1:09:06.636 --> 1:09:08.886 that there was progress on the group registration 1:09:08.886 --> 1:09:11.526 for published works, that's different 1:09:11.526 --> 1:09:13.406 than the group registration for public photographs. 1:09:13.476 --> 1:09:16.266 And so I just want to find out if those are proceeding together 1:09:16.266 --> 1:09:18.656 or if the group registration 1:09:18.656 --> 1:09:20.866 of published works is going to get done first. 1:09:20.866 --> 1:09:23.416 And then they're going to begin the photography one. 1:09:23.456 --> 1:09:27.466 >> David: So I think - I don't know the answer 1:09:27.466 --> 1:09:28.776 to that off the top of my head. 1:09:28.776 --> 1:09:33.946 But I do know that the single - the standard application 1:09:33.946 --> 1:09:38.076 and one group registration have gone through first. 1:09:38.076 --> 1:09:41.036 And that that's the intent is for other groups 1:09:41.036 --> 1:09:42.386 to follow close on the heels. 1:09:42.386 --> 1:09:45.676 But I also know that as the work has gone forward on that, 1:09:45.676 --> 1:09:48.396 that the user experience has actually combined more 1:09:48.396 --> 1:09:51.386 of what used to be completely separate things into single - 1:09:51.506 --> 1:09:52.846 into single work flows as well. 1:09:52.846 --> 1:09:56.606 I want to pause here for just a moment and invite members 1:09:56.606 --> 1:10:00.496 of the public that we are - we're about 15 minutes 1:10:00.496 --> 1:10:02.046 from the end of our time. 1:10:02.046 --> 1:10:04.476 And if you want to submit questions 1:10:04.476 --> 1:10:06.916 in the Q & A we can continue to do that. 1:10:06.916 --> 1:10:09.346 I'm going to continue to call members 1:10:09.346 --> 1:10:12.026 of the committee while we're doing that. 1:10:12.026 --> 1:10:13.856 And if you have questions for members 1:10:13.856 --> 1:10:17.536 of the committee you're also welcome to have those. 1:10:17.816 --> 1:10:20.876 Pamela Malbus can I call on you next? 1:10:20.876 --> 1:10:22.176 Go ahead and unmute yourself. 1:10:23.406 --> 1:10:24.706 >> Pamela Malbus: Sure. 1:10:24.706 --> 1:10:26.006 So I have two questions. 1:10:26.006 --> 1:10:30.546 One of them is on recordation and is related somewhat 1:10:30.546 --> 1:10:32.776 to what Jeff was talking about in the way 1:10:32.776 --> 1:10:37.756 that the new system does or does not reflect the regulations 1:10:37.756 --> 1:10:39.056 and vice versa. 1:10:39.056 --> 1:10:46.786 So in recordation in particular the section 205 says that the - 1:10:46.786 --> 1:10:52.966 the recordation is considered constructive notice only 1:10:52.966 --> 1:10:57.046 if the work on which the recordation is being filed, 1:10:57.046 --> 1:10:58.816 has been registered. 1:10:59.236 --> 1:11:02.376 In a paper processing somebody could have submitted this 1:11:02.376 --> 1:11:09.406 recordation, paperwork request documentation without having 1:11:09.406 --> 1:11:11.876 that registration because it wouldn't necessarily know 1:11:11.876 --> 1:11:14.016 or they just didn't - the sequencing was not - 1:11:14.896 --> 1:11:18.666 you didn't have to do - paper is paper in one form 1:11:18.666 --> 1:11:20.276 versus the second, whatever. 1:11:20.276 --> 1:11:23.276 But in this digital environment I'm wondering is 1:11:23.276 --> 1:11:24.766 that built into the system? 1:11:24.936 --> 1:11:27.826 That when you go for the recordation does it stop you 1:11:27.826 --> 1:11:29.656 and say wait, is this registered? 1:11:29.656 --> 1:11:31.696 If it's not registered don't go further. 1:11:31.696 --> 1:11:33.616 I'm just curious about that as a - 1:11:33.616 --> 1:11:35.136 >> David: That's a great question 1:11:35.186 --> 1:11:41.866 and I think I could invite Kim Kenyu who is our product manager 1:11:41.866 --> 1:11:45.946 for the recordation application to briefly unmute and address. 1:11:45.946 --> 1:11:51.996 Is there - is there validation of previous registration built 1:11:51.996 --> 1:11:53.296 into the system at all? 1:11:53.376 --> 1:11:56.606 >> Yeah I'd be happy to take that question. 1:11:56.606 --> 1:11:59.596 So there is actually a couple scenarios that when we spoke 1:11:59.596 --> 1:12:01.706 with our users during feasibility testing 1:12:01.706 --> 1:12:03.006 that they presented to us. 1:12:03.456 --> 1:12:08.386 So one is that we have a data validation that's there, 1:12:08.526 --> 1:12:12.716 so you must provide at least a title or a registration number. 1:12:12.716 --> 1:12:14.976 So if you do not have a registration number, 1:12:14.976 --> 1:12:18.486 you can still proceed with recording the document. 1:12:18.486 --> 1:12:21.636 A lot of times we hear folks tell us 1:12:21.636 --> 1:12:23.526 that they're recording a document 1:12:23.526 --> 1:12:25.816 and their registrations are still in progress. 1:12:25.816 --> 1:12:29.106 So we also have functionality where you can go in 1:12:29.106 --> 1:12:30.836 and correct your application. 1:12:30.836 --> 1:12:35.036 So once you get the registration numbers for that work, 1:12:35.036 --> 1:12:38.346 you can go ahead and go back to your service request. 1:12:38.346 --> 1:12:42.446 And make a modification or amplify that work information 1:12:42.446 --> 1:12:44.696 with the correct registration number. 1:12:44.696 --> 1:12:49.976 And one last piece, is that if you go into the system 1:12:49.976 --> 1:12:52.886 and you do not have a registration number, 1:12:53.086 --> 1:12:55.606 we do give our users a nice little nudge 1:12:55.736 --> 1:12:58.356 that says hey we recognize that you know, 1:12:58.356 --> 1:12:59.936 you didn't register your work. 1:12:59.936 --> 1:13:02.596 Is this something that you would like to do? 1:13:02.596 --> 1:13:05.136 So we give them a notification just after the fact, 1:13:05.136 --> 1:13:08.396 just to remind themselves that you might want 1:13:08.396 --> 1:13:10.396 to register these works. 1:13:10.776 --> 1:13:12.666 David back to you. 1:13:12.666 --> 1:13:15.566 >> David: Thank you and Pamela you said you had two questions. 1:13:15.566 --> 1:13:18.286 Was that two combined or was there one more question? 1:13:18.286 --> 1:13:19.906 >> No that was one of two. 1:13:19.906 --> 1:13:22.746 And I'm going to sneak in a cheeky third question 1:13:22.746 --> 1:13:24.126 since Kim mentioned it. 1:13:24.126 --> 1:13:28.726 Which was a referenced to the service request number, 1:13:29.066 --> 1:13:32.356 which I also saw in one of the prior demos. 1:13:32.436 --> 1:13:35.536 On the screen just appeared as SR number. 1:13:35.816 --> 1:13:39.366 And I think like having copyright registration number 1:13:39.366 --> 1:13:40.686 rather than copyright number. 1:13:40.876 --> 1:13:42.796 That maybe is not to people 1:13:42.796 --> 1:13:44.496 who were outside the development process. 1:13:44.496 --> 1:13:46.536 The SR number, you can sort of figure it out, 1:13:46.536 --> 1:13:49.616 but it'd be helpful for say service request number. 1:13:49.616 --> 1:13:51.016 Also known as SR. 1:13:51.226 --> 1:13:52.526 >> David: That's helpful and I just got a note - 1:13:52.526 --> 1:13:55.046 I've just gotten a note from our product manager 1:13:55.046 --> 1:13:57.506 that she has taken that down as a future request. 1:13:57.596 --> 1:13:58.896 >> Okay, all right. 1:13:58.896 --> 1:14:02.596 But my more meaningful question perhaps, not relevant for this 1:14:02.596 --> 1:14:03.896 and shut me down if it is 1:14:03.896 --> 1:14:05.866 because I know we're here to talk about IT. 1:14:05.866 --> 1:14:09.486 But I know part of the modernization is - involves some 1:14:09.486 --> 1:14:12.156 of the support systems and that there is a news 1:14:12.156 --> 1:14:15.126 or physical warehouse for materials. 1:14:15.126 --> 1:14:18.666 And as long as we're talking about security and so 1:14:18.666 --> 1:14:25.336 on of deposit materials I'm just curious as to what extent the - 1:14:25.336 --> 1:14:29.106 those new physical facilities reflect new physical 1:14:29.106 --> 1:14:31.216 considerations of floods and fires 1:14:31.216 --> 1:14:33.136 and stuff we're all doing now. 1:14:33.136 --> 1:14:39.196 >> David: So, so that's a great - I'm just trying to think 1:14:39.196 --> 1:14:41.426 about who I would - who I would - 1:14:41.426 --> 1:14:49.376 Kim is that another question - so - 1:14:49.676 --> 1:14:52.606 >> I'm not sure. 1:14:52.606 --> 1:14:57.116 Can you - can you possibly rephrase the question a 1:14:57.116 --> 1:14:58.636 little bit? 1:14:58.636 --> 1:15:01.146 >> Yeah as I say it may not be relevant to this discussion 1:15:01.146 --> 1:15:03.216 since we're talking about IT and I'm just talking 1:15:03.216 --> 1:15:04.646 about the physical structure. 1:15:04.646 --> 1:15:08.886 But if there is a new physical facility for storage 1:15:08.886 --> 1:15:11.276 and it's a warehouse and it's new, it's state of the art, 1:15:11.276 --> 1:15:15.136 it's gun controlled, it's XY and Z, 1:15:15.136 --> 1:15:17.236 you know I think we've all found that wherever 1:15:17.236 --> 1:15:20.006 that location maybe we're facing new kinds of threats. 1:15:20.006 --> 1:15:22.936 And if this great new facility, that now contains all 1:15:22.936 --> 1:15:26.426 of these extremely precious materials is you know, 1:15:26.426 --> 1:15:30.166 subject to anticipated flooding. 1:15:30.976 --> 1:15:33.786 I'm just - it's probably not relevant for her. 1:15:33.786 --> 1:15:38.366 >> David I think that's a little bit different 1:15:38.366 --> 1:15:39.846 than the recordation question. 1:15:39.846 --> 1:15:41.986 I was going to see if anyone else 1:15:41.986 --> 1:15:44.286 on the panelists might be able to take that. 1:15:44.286 --> 1:15:46.296 >> David: So I think we actually just - 1:15:46.636 --> 1:15:49.996 I think that Denise Wolford who would have been the person 1:15:49.996 --> 1:15:52.486 to take that question might have just jumped off 1:15:52.486 --> 1:15:54.316 of the panel for another meeting. 1:15:54.316 --> 1:15:59.546 But I do - I do want to say that now that I've been at the agency 1:15:59.546 --> 1:16:02.386 for 15 years, and I have - I have - 1:16:02.796 --> 1:16:08.376 when the copyright cards were digitized, 1:16:08.486 --> 1:16:12.156 the primary driver behind the digitization 1:16:12.156 --> 1:16:15.896 of the copyright cards at that time was not accessed. 1:16:16.076 --> 1:16:19.876 It was - it was preservation. 1:16:20.016 --> 1:16:24.456 It was the digitization of because there was only one copy 1:16:24.456 --> 1:16:26.076 of those copyright cards. 1:16:26.076 --> 1:16:27.996 Anywhere - anywhere in the world. 1:16:27.996 --> 1:16:30.206 And I think it's a great question for us to think about 1:16:30.206 --> 1:16:32.906 and to bear in mind that there are - 1:16:32.906 --> 1:16:35.046 that this is like a real issue. 1:16:35.046 --> 1:16:39.666 I would also say that you know, we don't have the Library 1:16:39.666 --> 1:16:42.786 of Congress's director for preservation on the call today. 1:16:42.786 --> 1:16:48.286 But this is an area where the entire agency is extremely - 1:16:48.386 --> 1:16:49.686 because we have in fact, 1:16:49.686 --> 1:16:51.106 just moved into a new warehouse space. 1:16:51.276 --> 1:16:55.836 And we are - I can tell you that there were experience you know, 1:16:55.836 --> 1:16:59.776 items that were damaged from the previous. 1:16:59.776 --> 1:17:02.096 And so I think this is a great thing for us to think about. 1:17:02.096 --> 1:17:04.426 I'd like to bookmark it, since we don't have - 1:17:04.426 --> 1:17:08.746 since we don't have the folks on the call 1:17:08.746 --> 1:17:10.606 who like address that correctly. 1:17:10.706 --> 1:17:12.006 >> Thanks. 1:17:12.006 --> 1:17:13.306 >> David: Much appreciate it. 1:17:13.696 --> 1:17:19.616 Kathleen if you would unmute yourself and jump in now. 1:17:19.616 --> 1:17:22.066 And then we have another question for - 1:17:22.066 --> 1:17:24.846 we have another question from the - from the public. 1:17:25.136 --> 1:17:27.426 >> Kathleen: Okay I just wanted to be clear on the records 1:17:27.426 --> 1:17:29.256 and the public record system 1:17:29.256 --> 1:17:31.856 so the newer records it's data only. 1:17:31.856 --> 1:17:33.856 It's not copies of any applications 1:17:33.856 --> 1:17:35.386 or certificates or anything. 1:17:35.386 --> 1:17:38.296 No plan for that, or is it coming? 1:17:38.296 --> 1:17:40.616 >> David: In case of the newest records many times there have 1:17:40.616 --> 1:17:43.806 not actually been an application. 1:17:45.116 --> 1:17:49.166 But those were submitted via a system where somebody just fills 1:17:49.166 --> 1:17:52.476 out a form and submits the - 1:17:52.476 --> 1:17:59.076 or fills out electronic and submits it. 1:17:59.076 --> 1:18:02.966 So - so there would not be in that case sort 1:18:03.396 --> 1:18:08.496 of like print facsimile, one has never existed. 1:18:08.896 --> 1:18:11.866 >> Okay so there's no plan to put a copy 1:18:11.866 --> 1:18:13.766 of the final registration certificate there 1:18:13.766 --> 1:18:15.066 or anything like that right now? 1:18:15.066 --> 1:18:17.086 >> David: So registration certificates 1:18:17.086 --> 1:18:21.736 that would be a question for our product manager 1:18:21.736 --> 1:18:27.946 for the public record system who also is - who is here 1:18:28.056 --> 1:18:32.846 and who also is the person who the question from the member 1:18:32.846 --> 1:18:38.196 of the public came in for, which was a question about linkages, 1:18:38.366 --> 1:18:39.876 planned between meta data 1:18:39.876 --> 1:18:42.306 and the copyright public record system. 1:18:42.306 --> 1:18:45.696 And elsewhere, so not - not directly related 1:18:45.696 --> 1:18:49.636 to your question but Sean - Sean Gallagher, would you be able 1:18:49.636 --> 1:18:53.646 to unmute yourself briefly and address these two topics? 1:18:53.646 --> 1:18:56.496 So registration certificates 1:18:56.496 --> 1:19:01.456 in the copyright public record system and data linkages 1:19:01.456 --> 1:19:03.766 between the copyright public record system 1:19:03.766 --> 1:19:06.496 and - and other systems. 1:19:07.606 --> 1:19:09.146 >> Sean Gallagher: Sure David, thanks. 1:19:09.146 --> 1:19:11.956 Both of those things are on our road map. 1:19:11.956 --> 1:19:15.516 I know that in our requirements there's been lots of reports 1:19:15.516 --> 1:19:19.076 and analysis about accessibility of copyright information 1:19:19.076 --> 1:19:23.486 and there have been requests to make the certificates 1:19:23.486 --> 1:19:25.456 of registration and certifications 1:19:25.456 --> 1:19:30.226 of recordation available in our public catalog. 1:19:30.226 --> 1:19:33.626 Those are available right now at the office 1:19:33.626 --> 1:19:35.486 through the copyright imaging system. 1:19:35.486 --> 1:19:38.326 But you do have to come onsite for that. 1:19:38.326 --> 1:19:41.996 With the pandemic it made us realize that was more important 1:19:41.996 --> 1:19:43.536 than perhaps it used to be at one point. 1:19:43.536 --> 1:19:45.956 So that is definitely on our road map. 1:19:45.956 --> 1:19:50.266 And as far as interoperability with other systems, that is also 1:19:50.656 --> 1:19:52.356 on our road map as well. 1:19:52.356 --> 1:19:54.376 We know that there are a lot of industry standards 1:19:54.376 --> 1:19:57.696 that people reference when they do provide information 1:19:57.696 --> 1:19:59.666 about their works to the copyright office. 1:19:59.666 --> 1:20:02.306 And so that is - that's a linkage that we're looking 1:20:02.306 --> 1:20:06.466 to make at some point when we - when we move the system forward. 1:20:10.296 --> 1:20:11.596 >> David: Thank you. 1:20:11.596 --> 1:20:16.076 Thank you Sean and much appreciated. 1:20:16.076 --> 1:20:21.876 So we had a - sort of a complicated multi-part question 1:20:21.876 --> 1:20:23.716 from - from several panelists. 1:20:23.716 --> 1:20:28.816 But I'd like to actually start by just reading a - 1:20:28.816 --> 1:20:30.346 reading a version of the question 1:20:30.346 --> 1:20:33.846 and then echoing it's important. 1:20:33.846 --> 1:20:37.636 I think as soon as it - it comes out it will be recognized 1:20:37.636 --> 1:20:39.056 as important by everyone. 1:20:39.056 --> 1:20:43.526 And maybe we can have this as our final topic of conversation, 1:20:43.526 --> 1:20:47.036 which is that as the system - new systems go live 1:20:47.506 --> 1:20:53.256 and as the number of records grows, do we anticipate requests 1:20:53.256 --> 1:20:58.316 to access and carry out big data research projects? 1:20:58.316 --> 1:21:00.276 And then we add a second of the question 1:21:00.276 --> 1:21:03.706 and then a follow-on question to that which is, 1:21:03.706 --> 1:21:06.386 if the answer is yes, will there be a charge 1:21:06.386 --> 1:21:08.946 for the bulk access necessary to do the research? 1:21:08.946 --> 1:21:12.266 And if so, who would receive the money for that charge? 1:21:12.266 --> 1:21:15.036 And I think this is a question that goes straight to the heart 1:21:15.036 --> 1:21:17.746 of something that every organization is thinking 1:21:17.746 --> 1:21:19.046 about right now. 1:21:19.046 --> 1:21:22.536 And Jim Neil I don't know if you wanted to talk a little bit, 1:21:22.536 --> 1:21:25.446 I know you have some experience in this area and thinking 1:21:25.446 --> 1:21:26.786 about this more broadly. 1:21:26.786 --> 1:21:30.226 Is there any more comment that you'd want to provide on that? 1:21:30.226 --> 1:21:34.296 I can say that we don't have a policy framework 1:21:34.296 --> 1:21:35.986 in place for this right now. 1:21:35.986 --> 1:21:39.416 But I'd be interested to sort of hear any additional input 1:21:39.416 --> 1:21:41.856 from you or any of the other members on that. 1:21:41.856 --> 1:21:43.926 If there's interest. 1:21:43.926 --> 1:21:45.226 >> Jim Neil: Yeah I'll be brief David. 1:21:45.226 --> 1:21:48.836 I've sat with a number of organizations over the years 1:21:48.886 --> 1:21:53.696 that have actually accumulated lots of data, of various types. 1:21:53.696 --> 1:21:56.356 And inevitably what comes from behind 1:21:56.356 --> 1:22:02.906 that is quickly is requests to be able to mine that data of - 1:22:02.906 --> 1:22:05.196 for big data research projects. 1:22:05.456 --> 1:22:09.906 And it was very important to have in place a policy framework 1:22:09.906 --> 1:22:12.696 but also a review and approval process 1:22:12.786 --> 1:22:15.286 for dealing with those requests. 1:22:15.286 --> 1:22:19.286 I think by raising my question, I was only encouraging us 1:22:19.286 --> 1:22:23.636 and you to anticipate that and to begin to put those - 1:22:23.636 --> 1:22:25.666 put that infrastructure together. 1:22:25.846 --> 1:22:29.426 >> David: That's a great and much appreciated. 1:22:29.426 --> 1:22:33.966 Are there any other CPMC members who want to - want to sort 1:22:33.966 --> 1:22:38.446 of echo that or take that in another direction? 1:22:38.766 --> 1:22:42.696 We're coming up on several minutes remaining before the 1:22:42.766 --> 1:22:44.066 close of our session. 1:22:44.066 --> 1:22:48.336 And I would also throw the topic open for - 1:22:48.336 --> 1:22:55.896 you know throw the floor open just in case anyone missed the - 1:22:55.896 --> 1:23:01.036 the high points of - of Sean's remarks 1:23:01.036 --> 1:23:07.476 that there will be certificates of registration and recordation 1:23:07.476 --> 1:23:11.056 in the copyright public record system in the next release. 1:23:11.056 --> 1:23:13.566 So that is a thing that's coming 1:23:13.566 --> 1:23:16.836 up specifically for the certificates. 1:23:16.836 --> 1:23:20.366 Not talking about any additional - like not a form 1:23:20.366 --> 1:23:21.666 that you would fill out. 1:23:21.666 --> 1:23:25.736 But and then also I did want to point 1:23:25.986 --> 1:23:30.016 out that the new copyright warehouse, 1:23:30.136 --> 1:23:32.726 there was actually a modernization webinar. 1:23:32.856 --> 1:23:38.996 It's been I think 18 months ago now, maybe in October of 2020. 1:23:38.996 --> 1:23:41.166 But I would encourage anyone who is following along, 1:23:41.166 --> 1:23:43.656 who is sort of specifically interested in that topic 1:23:43.656 --> 1:23:47.136 to jump back and watch that webinar as well. 1:23:47.136 --> 1:23:52.936 We're getting notes from a couple of the members 1:23:52.936 --> 1:23:56.076 that they've got a hard stop at 3:30. 1:23:56.076 --> 1:24:02.576 So I wanted to give my - my warmest thanks to the members 1:24:02.576 --> 1:24:07.666 for joining us today on what is in Washington a hot and soon 1:24:07.666 --> 1:24:11.076 to be stormy summer afternoon. 1:24:11.076 --> 1:24:17.266 Our next public meeting will be in January or February of 2023. 1:24:17.266 --> 1:24:20.136 It's hard to believe that it's - it's that far along. 1:24:20.136 --> 1:24:23.156 And we'll be in contact with the members, 1:24:23.156 --> 1:24:28.556 and we will also be releasing a recording 1:24:28.556 --> 1:24:31.176 of this webinar to the public. 1:24:31.176 --> 1:24:34.946 That will go out on loc.gov. 1:24:35.006 --> 1:24:37.506 We'll also send a note to all 1:24:37.506 --> 1:24:41.946 of the copyright public modernization committee members 1:24:42.286 --> 1:24:47.426 as soon as that's posted for - for wide sharing hopefully. 1:24:47.426 --> 1:24:49.976 So without further ado I want 1:24:49.976 --> 1:24:53.006 to thank you all for joining us today. 1:24:53.236 --> 1:24:56.726 We'll be following up with you via email in the next couple 1:24:56.726 --> 1:25:01.106 of days and that concludes our third public meeting 1:25:01.106 --> 1:25:03.716 of the Library of Congress's Copyright Public 1:25:03.716 --> 1:25:05.016 Modernization Committee. 1:25:05.016 --> 1:25:06.976 Thank you all for joining.
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