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  • Zatalliya
    Zatalliya closed this thread because:
    SageM removed from bureaucracy - thread is now obsolete
    18:05, October 30, 2019

    With the shock announcement of SageM as the new bureaucrat for the Superpower Wiki, I'd like to ask the wiki community on their honest opinion on whether you think SageM deserves the role:

    Do you think SageM should be the wiki's Bureaucrat?
     
    7
     
    45
     
    8
     

    The poll was created at 12:39 on October 5, 2019, and so far 60 people voted.
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    • Don't judge someone's suitability before even giving them the chance to prove it.

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    • Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Don't judge someone's suitability before even giving them the chance to prove it.

      Based on the outrage currently happening because of his continued history of problems, it's safe to say pretty much no one wants to give him that chance. They believe the risk too great to humor the idea, and given how things are going, this is going to be a rather clear cut option.

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    • Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Don't judge someone's suitability before even giving them the chance to prove it.
      Based on the outrage currently happening because of his continued history of problems, it's safe to say pretty much no one wants to give him that chance. They believe the risk too great to humor the idea, and given how things are going, this is going to be a rather clear cut option.

      I can see that. Doesn't mean they are right.

      Why not see how it goes before passing judgement ? Isn't that the reasonable thing to do ?

      Not like there is a deadline for this kind of pool. Why freaking out barely a few hours in ?

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    • Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Don't judge someone's suitability before even giving them the chance to prove it.
      Based on the outrage currently happening because of his continued history of problems, it's safe to say pretty much no one wants to give him that chance. They believe the risk too great to humor the idea, and given how things are going, this is going to be a rather clear cut option.
      I can see that. Doesn't mean they are right.

      Why not see how it goes before passing judgement ? Isn't that the reasonable thing to do ?

      Not like there is a deadline for this kind of pool. Why freaking out barely a few hours in ?

      Freaking out barely a few hours in is exactly why its a bad decision. Enough users have had enough bad experiences with Sage to completely denounce him in every facet. He is literally the most hated user on the wiki and for good reason. With that kind of history the option of promotion and a chance are null.

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    • Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Don't judge someone's suitability before even giving them the chance to prove it.
      Based on the outrage currently happening because of his continued history of problems, it's safe to say pretty much no one wants to give him that chance. They believe the risk too great to humor the idea, and given how things are going, this is going to be a rather clear cut option.
      I can see that. Doesn't mean they are right.

      Why not see how it goes before passing judgement ? Isn't that the reasonable thing to do ?

      Not like there is a deadline for this kind of pool. Why freaking out barely a few hours in ?

      Freaking out barely a few hours in is exactly why its a bad decision. Enough users have had enough bad experiences with Sage to completely denounce him in every facet. He is literally the most hated user on the wiki and for good reason. With that kind of history the option of promotion and a chance are null.

      I know, that's how it played out so far. Still, the odds of being pleasantly surprised are actually high.

      That's why I say we should wait and see.

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    • Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Don't judge someone's suitability before even giving them the chance to prove it.
      Based on the outrage currently happening because of his continued history of problems, it's safe to say pretty much no one wants to give him that chance. They believe the risk too great to humor the idea, and given how things are going, this is going to be a rather clear cut option.
      I can see that. Doesn't mean they are right.

      Why not see how it goes before passing judgement ? Isn't that the reasonable thing to do ?

      Not like there is a deadline for this kind of pool. Why freaking out barely a few hours in ?

      Freaking out barely a few hours in is exactly why its a bad decision. Enough users have had enough bad experiences with Sage to completely denounce him in every facet. He is literally the most hated user on the wiki and for good reason. With that kind of history the option of promotion and a chance are null.
      I know, that's how it played out so far. Still, the odds of being pleasantly surprised are actually high.

      That's why I say we should wait and see.

      The only way he succeeds is if he entirely abandons his current ideologies about powers.

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    • Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Don't judge someone's suitability before even giving them the chance to prove it.
      Based on the outrage currently happening because of his continued history of problems, it's safe to say pretty much no one wants to give him that chance. They believe the risk too great to humor the idea, and given how things are going, this is going to be a rather clear cut option.
      I can see that. Doesn't mean they are right.

      Why not see how it goes before passing judgement ? Isn't that the reasonable thing to do ?

      Not like there is a deadline for this kind of pool. Why freaking out barely a few hours in ?

      Freaking out barely a few hours in is exactly why its a bad decision. Enough users have had enough bad experiences with Sage to completely denounce him in every facet. He is literally the most hated user on the wiki and for good reason. With that kind of history the option of promotion and a chance are null.
      I know, that's how it played out so far. Still, the odds of being pleasantly surprised are actually high.

      That's why I say we should wait and see.

      The only way he succeeds is if he entirely abandons his current ideologies about powers.

      I don't know what ideology it is, but I'm quite certain Sage is fully aware of his own unpopularity, and willing to make the necessary concessions to make this one-in-a-lifetime chance work.

      Maybe I'm worng. Maybe I'm right. One one way to know.

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    • Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      Don't judge someone's suitability before even giving them the chance to prove it.
      Based on the outrage currently happening because of his continued history of problems, it's safe to say pretty much no one wants to give him that chance. They believe the risk too great to humor the idea, and given how things are going, this is going to be a rather clear cut option.
      I can see that. Doesn't mean they are right.

      Why not see how it goes before passing judgement ? Isn't that the reasonable thing to do ?

      Not like there is a deadline for this kind of pool. Why freaking out barely a few hours in ?

      Freaking out barely a few hours in is exactly why its a bad decision. Enough users have had enough bad experiences with Sage to completely denounce him in every facet. He is literally the most hated user on the wiki and for good reason. With that kind of history the option of promotion and a chance are null.
      I know, that's how it played out so far. Still, the odds of being pleasantly surprised are actually high.

      That's why I say we should wait and see.

      The only way he succeeds is if he entirely abandons his current ideologies about powers.
      I don't know what ideology it is, but I'm quite certain Sage is fully aware of his own unpopularity, and willing to make the necessary concessions to make this one-in-a-lifetime chance work.

      Maybe I'm worng. Maybe I'm right. One one way to know.

      Well his first test is how he reacts to this situation. If it's the Sage we all know and hate, he's probably going to delete all this an ban those responsible. If it's a better Sage, then he'll relinquish the position but will be allowed to keep admin status as an experiment to see if he can actually handle the responsibility.

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    • Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote: Well his first test is how he reacts to this situation. If it's the Sage we all know and hate, he's probably going to delete all this an ban those responsible. If it's a better Sage, then he'll relinquish the position but will be allowed to keep admin status as an experiment to see if he can actually handle the responsibility.

      Massive agreement with you here Alissa. This is a voice of reason.

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    • It is too early to judge as a bureaucrat, when he has barely been for a day.

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    • AmIBread
      AmIBread removed this reply because:
      wrong thread lol
      15:39, October 5, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Demotivator wrote:

      Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote: Well his first test is how he reacts to this situation. If it's the Sage we all know and hate, he's probably going to delete all this an ban those responsible. If it's a better Sage, then he'll relinquish the position but will be allowed to keep admin status as an experiment to see if he can actually handle the responsibility.

      Massive agreement with you here Alissa. This is a voice of reason.

      Sounds like a fine back-up plan if he does well enough but the hate remains too high. Good middle ground.

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    • Honestly, Alissa thinks that she would be a better bureaucrat for some reason or another. I only jokingly said that SageM should be made into the next bureaucrat to replace Kuo which is how we got to this situation in the first place.

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    • The only user who I trust that should have the position is Omuni (seeing as she seems like the most level headed among us and is a trustworthy admin) and maybe DYBAD.

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    • We need an admin who cares about right and wrong and has the guts to back it up.

      Also, one with diplomatic skills and the will to put a lot of time and work in the Wiki.

      So far, Arquetion fits the bill better than anyone.

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    • bydad I told you that the post of bureaucrat is not my thing

      We must give Sagem the benefit of the doubt.

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    • I mean as a normal user SageM has shown that he can be pretty petty and a nuisance to others just because they disagree with him.

      Arquetion and Omuni would be the best choices

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    • I don't want to be a bureaucrat, it's a lot of responsibility, we have to give him the benefit of the doubt, even since he's been a bureaucrat he hasn't had hostile behavior.

      if sagem doesn't show any negative attitude as a bureaucrat he can keep the job

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    • Arquetion wrote:
      bydad I told you that the post of bureaucrat is not my thing

      We must give Sagem the benefit of the doubt.

      I do remember you saying you are not ready due to lack of experience but would accept it if there is no reliable alternative.

      Not pressuring you into it or anything, just saying you do fit the bill above better than most anyone else here.

      See the way you are putting reason first and firmly standing by it ? That's how a Bureaucrat should be.

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    • I know what I said, it's just that it seems unfair that they are judging and giving a verdict on the new bureaucracy when it is just beginning with its new position.

      I don't talk about you Bydad since you are a bit more reasonable than other people who criticize the new bureaucrat without giving it a chance.

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    • Arquetion wrote:
      I know what I said, it's just that it seems unfair that they are judging and giving a verdict on the new bureaucracy when it is just beginning with its new position.

      I don't talk about you Bydad since you are a bit more reasonable than other people who criticize the new bureaucrat without giving it a chance.

      It's DYBAD, and thank you ^ ^

      Well, we can't deny that Sage has a huge history of unnecessary arguments and edit wars with others users, so we can't reasonably blame them for being real iffy about the notion of him being in charge of the Wiki.

      If it was a one-way decision, I would honestly agree with them. Too big a risk to take if there is no way out later.

      Thing is, that's not the case. The revolutionary uproar right now can be done all over again anytime. No deadline.

      So why not give it a chance first, and see how it plays out ? Seems much fairer this way, and we can afford it.

      I just don't get the panicky feelings and critical urgency flaring up everywhere. It's not a now-or-never situation.

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    • Exactly we should not draw hasty conclusions until we have the right picture.

      unlike other people, I like the user despite the defects he has. I have confidence that he will be a good bureaucrat.

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    • Well, this is a FAN wikia, meaning if majority want someone to not have a position, then he/she shouldn't have that position.

      I will repeat a very good point the demotivator said: you don't hand down jobs to anyone and wait to see if they can do it. For example will you give a lunatic the control of a plane and wait to see if he can land it properly? No, that is madness.

      That is why to give someone a job, you take interviews and qualifications of a person. And the greatest qualification of the bureaucrat of a fan wikia is to be liked or at least accepted by a majority of them.

      I personally am fine with SageM being the bureaucrat but if this goes on then I think I'll contact the Fandom Staff about this and if I am not wrong they will conduct their own poll and seeing the result of this pole, I think we know the outcome. The wikia members also have a right to chose who their bureaucrat should be.

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    • Weren't you congratulating Sage on his promotion just yesterday ?

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    • I said I'm fine with it, despite being the user who probably has the worst history with SageM, I actually respect the dude as he has huge knowledge about mythology and fiction alike and is really active. But, here I'm talking about the majority of the wikia not myself. If the majority wants something to go, it has to go even if I'm fine with that thing.

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    • Fair point. And true, I remember you two argued a ton about powers and characters ^ ^

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    • Also, please let this poll run for 7 days to see what happens. Can anyone of the admins highlight the thread, so that all people can cast their votes? After, all this is a serious issue and the leadership of the wikia is dependent on this.

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    • Oh don't worry, it's the white-hot topic on the SPW Discord. A few days from now, I doubt anyone here will not have heard of it.

      Don't think this poll is planned for deletion either. Wouldn't be much point, as a replica would just pop right away.

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    • If Kuopiofi really did just choose SageM just to spite people, then this wiki's decline was always on the cards... petty squabbles between people really shouldn't affect the running of the place, cos it's us normal users that suffer in the end... How_Dare_You.gif


      Anyway, I hear you loud and clear Nekron. While I can commend SageM's vast fictional knowledge, it's his attitude that's the real issue here. And when it comes to a position like the bureaucrat role (which involves the overseeing and running of a wiki), it's arguably one's attitude that is most important.

      I'll say it as many times as I need to: from what we've all seen, SageM doesn't have the traits necessary to be an admin/bureaucrat. While I'd hold great feelings of reluctance on it, I'd nevertheless accept SageM simply being an admin and seeing how he behaves with the role (providing the bureaucracy role goes to someone else first).


      Also, DYBAD. I get the feeling you're playing devil's advocate here... Evil.gif I won't lie, of the admins/mods this wiki has had in recent years, I'd put your performance near the top, but I'm struggling to see why you're so insistent to see someone so controversial keep the position against the wishes of so many users... Confuse.gifLol.gif

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    • There is currently no reason to do anything about it.

      As I haven't done anything since receiving the promotion that would negate the reason for it.

      I am simply letting things calm down and not trying to do anything to damage the wikia as things stand now.

      Which is why I am simply letting the block between DH and DYBAD run its course.

      If there is reason to step in to solve I dispute then I will do so as the situation dictates.

      Since the promotion was recent and unexpected, its best to let things settle before deciding to do anything that would effect the wikia.

      I will try my best to help if there are problems though



      It's Sagem's words, not mine.

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    • Arquetion, he posted that on my talk page... 🙄😒

      *audible sigh*

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    • Kuo has always been woefully indifferent to relational issues between users and even among staff, it's what allowed these situations to fester for years, and ultimately led us where we currently are. So what we most need in the next Bureaucrat is for him/her to take these problems seriously, and properly adress them in a reasonable manner.

      ...a description Sage doesn't fit one bit, yeah XD

      Honestly, I don't particularly want for Sage to stay Bureaucrat, since as you explained he has a rich history that doesn't quite fit attitude-related key requirements. I'm just really curious to see how it will turn out if given the chance.

      It's like a series you have been following for years, and then out of nowhere the most unexpected twist ever suddenly becomes reality, and you're like "what's going to happen next ??". The suspense is killing you, and you know you have to check the following episodes and see for yourself.

      That, and I always had a soft spot for "redeemed villains" developments, where they are given the chance to outgrow their past and show they can be more than what we ever gave them credit for. Granted, it's a bit idealistic, but we all have our flaws.

      Still, I only suggested giving it a shot because deposing him if things go wrong is just a formality in this context (make a vote, 99% in favor, call staff, done). If it was a one-way decision, I would say "hell no" and be right behind you ^ ^;

      All things considered, this "step dow from Crat / give a chance as admin" idea is probably best though.

      Thank you very much for your appreciation :)

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    • Emergency Alternate Account wrote: Kuo has always been woefully indifferent to relational issues between users and even among staff, it's what allowed these situations to fester for years, and ultimately led us where we currently are. So what we most need in the next Bureaucrat is for him/her to take these problems seriously, and properly adress them in a reasonable manner.

      ...a description Sage doesn't fit one bit, yeah XD

      Honestly, I don't particularly want for Sage to stay Bureaucrat, since as you explained he has a rich history that doesn't quite fit attitude-related key requirements. I'm just really curious to see how it will turn out if given the chance.

      It's like a series you have been following for years, and then out of nowhere the most unexpected twist ever suddenly becomes reality, and you're like "what's going to happen next ??". The suspense is killing you, and you know you have to check the following episodes and see for yourself.

      That, and I always had a soft spot for "redeemed villains" developments, where they are given the chance to outgrow their past and show they can be more than what we ever gave them credit for. Granted, it's a bit idealistic, but we all have our flaws.

      Still, I only suggested giving it a shot because deposing him if things go wrong is just a formality in this context (make a vote, 99% in favor, call staff, done). If it was a one-way decision, I would say "hell no" and be right behind you ^ ^;

      All things considered, this "step dow from Crat / give a chance as admin" idea is probably best though.

      Thank you very much for your appreciation :)

      I've always noticed how indifferent Kuo was over the years in regards to relational issues between users (his constant erasure of his talk page and the fact this wiki still doesn't have Message Walls were huge red flags). He'd have been a nigh-perfect bureaucrat if he wasn't such a robot...

      Well, now that you've explained yourself, I can say for sure we're generally thinking along the same sort of lines (even if I'm clearly more cynical in my thought processes) Lol.gif

      Well, I do think the next immediate step is to hold a poll for who the community would like to see leading the wiki (personally I do believe there should be two active bureaucrats—as the saying goes, "no one man should have all that power"). But let's get over this hurdle first and go from there.

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    • I don't see the problem with us having an actual public vote?

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    • Three things then Imouto:

      1. One or Two bureaucrats?
      2. A list of users who think they'd do a good job with the bureaucrat role (screening is necessary here; admin/bureaucrat experience—on larger wikis too—is a good indicator)
      3. Community vote

      And since I'm aware of the interpersonal divide and constant problems between the mods and admins on this wiki, it's imperative the decision the wiki comes to is an impartial one. Otherwise we'll just end up in the Kuo-bot/Sage M situation all over again (or worse)...

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    • Is it possible to have 2 Bureaucrats ? If so, that would totally be the way to go.

      Not only would it create a much welcome balance of power, but we could also have one Crat focusing on the technical side (what Kuo did so far) while the other would handle the relational side (a fair people-person good at managing conflicts and inspiring cooperation between users).

      What do you think ?

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    • Its possible. 

      The only thing is that the position can't be removed once someone is promoted.

      Only the fandom staff or the user themselves can remove.it.

      So if you want another bureaucrat, you better choose very carefully because its a one shot deal. 

      Also by default the wikia founder is considered a bureaucrat, so technically speaking there already are two of them (even if the founder no longer visits the wikia)

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    • Of course it is DYBAD ! This wiki is the weird one for not having dual bureaucrats despite being such a large wiki. Lol.gif
      Honestly, this wiki can be so backwards sometimes. 24.gif

      But yeah, this wiki has been needing something along the lines of a mod squad for the longest time, with each admin/mod focusing on something different. People to deal with all the technical shit, people to deal with general wiki maintenance and people to deal with relational user issues.

      In short, in my opinion, the wiki needs a two bureaucrat system and a "mod squad" with everyone dealing with a certain issue.


      EDIT: The wiki founder is automatically given bureaucrat and admin rights, but they can lose them as easily as any other user. Whoever the founder was for this wiki is long gone. For some reason Caydeb is still listed as a bureaucrat and admin despite being long gone... a tiny issue that clearly never got resolved...

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    • It seems the best way to proceed would be to ask a CC staff to transfer Caydeb's Bureaucrat status to another user, seeing as his last edit here was over three years ago and he's... blocked accross the entire Wikia network ? What happened ? o_O

      Well, all the more reason to take this transfer path at least ^ ^;

      We should probably discuss it with said staff beforehand and require their assistance in the forseeable future, as it's very much experimental and we could certainly use a safety net in case things go wrong.

      Before considering potential candidates though, it seems preferable to discuss this mod squad idea you mentioned, and start by listing the specific roles/jobs a Wiki our size normally requires, and who among our current roaster would best fit each one.

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    • Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      It seems the best way to proceed would be to ask a CC staff to transfer Caydeb's Bureaucrat status to another user, seeing as his last edit here was over three years ago and he's... blocked accross the entire Wikia network ? What happened ? o_O

      Well, all the more reason to take this transfer path at least ^ ^;

      We should probably discuss it with said staff beforehand and require their assistance in the forseeable future, as it's very much experimental and we could certainly use a safety net in case things go wrong.

      Before considering potential condidates though, it seems preferable to discuss this mod squad idea you mentioned, and start by listing the specific roles/jobs a Wiki our size normally requires, and who about our current roaster would best fit each one.

      He's blocked across the network for deleting pages that admins approved and didn't leave any trace of his presence until the community looked into it, after that things divebombed pretty badly after they realized what he did and kept up the bad behavior until all his IPs were found and blocked.

      Yeah, it wasn't good.

      Also if that wasn't enough, he somehow completely wrecked the user talk and user history section of both Gabe and Kuo so badly that it only goes back to about 2016 (instead of to all the way back to when they joined)

      Caydeb won't be missed.

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    • SageM wrote:
      Emergency Alternate Account wrote:
      It seems the best way to proceed would be to ask a CC staff to transfer Caydeb's Bureaucrat status to another user, seeing as his last edit here was over three years ago and he's... blocked accross the entire Wikia network ? What happened ? o_O

      Well, all the more reason to take this transfer path at least ^ ^;

      We should probably discuss it with said staff beforehand and require their assistance in the forseeable future, as it's very much experimental and we could certainly use a safety net in case things go wrong.

      Before considering potential condidates though, it seems preferable to discuss this mod squad idea you mentioned, and start by listing the specific roles/jobs a Wiki our size normally requires, and who about our current roaster would best fit each one.

      He's blocked across the network for deleting pages that admins approved and didn't leave any trace of his presence until the community looked into it, after that things divebombed pretty badly after they realized what he did and kept up the bad behavior until all his IPs were found and blocked.

      Yeah, it wasn't good.

      Also if that wasn't enough, he somehow completely wrecked the user talk and user history section of both Gabe and Kuo so badly that it only goes back to about 2016 (instead of to all the way back to when they joined)

      Caydeb won't be missed.

      Was it actually Caydeb himself, or Ironindri who hacked his account at about the same period ?

      The description and time really seem to match. Guy is a regular of the SPW Discord oddly enough.

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    • Ahhhh, so that's what happened... I was definitely not active around here when that happened Lol.gif


      Can do DYBAD Ok.gif how I see it, for a wiki like this, the main roles for the admins/mods would be:

      Technical Team
      • Maintenance of MediaWiki, Template, Category pages
      • Overlooking general user experience (so looking at things like adding/removing wiki functionalities etc)
      Editing Team
      • General mainspace page maintenance (general edits, grammar edits, necessary reversions etc)
      • Keeping the Special Pages in order
      Relational Team
      • First point of contact for users (these are the guys that users should/would come to with any issues they're having)
      • Problem solvers (stopping edit wars, solving [heated] arguments, voices of reason etc)

      The two bureaucrats can be part of any teams, but generally would be the people with either the most experience wiki-wise and/or the people with the greatest rapport with the wiki community. A bureaucrat in the Technical Team and a bureaucrat in the Relational Team would be best methinks.

      What are your thoughts on that so far?

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    • Looks very promising, and exactly what we needed to better organize our staff in the near future.

      Excellent work ^ ^

      Technical team / Relational team for the two bureaucrats seems the best combo as well. It leaves a blank in the Editing team, but maybe this field would be better served by collegial decisions among admins than the "one to rule them all" system we had so far. It's certainly a lot less conflictual, and seems more in phase with the "build together" spirit of the Wikia/Fanon network.

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    • I would also, like to put up another issue here, I think the wikia in addition to two new beauracrats needs a few more admins or this "modern-squad" immediately. You see many of the new members of the wikia don't seem to have English as their native language and use Google translaters (which is monkeys stringing up words), so, when they edit a page, their edits seem more like some sort of gibberish rather than proper lines. So, the wikia needs more admins to fix this

      If you check the comments of pages like Absolute Destruction and Omnipotence, it is filled with gibberish to further prove my point. So, I would suggest few admins be selected, as quickly as possible either by the two new bureaucrats or by vote of the community.

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    • Emergency Alternate Account wrote: Looks very promising, and exactly what we needed to better organize our staff in the near future.

      Excellent work ^ ^

      Technical team / Relational team for the two bureaucrats seems the best combo as well. It leaves a blank in the Editing team, but maybe this field would be better served by collegial decisions among admins than the "one to rule them all" system we had so far. It's certainly a lot less conflictual, and seems more in phase with the "build together" spirit of the Wikia/Fanon network.

      Well, this certainly isn't my first rodeo where admin/bureaucrat things are concerned Lol.gif glad you're seeing the logic of it all ^^
      Numerically, I'd say 1-2 people in the Technical Team, 3-4 people in the Editing Team and 3-4 people in the Relational Team with a mix of bureaucrats, admins and mods in the different teams.

      If a "mod squad" is what we'd be happy going with, I guess the next step after that would be to start looking at who's best to fit these roles.

      Nekron2 wrote: I would also, like to put up another issue here ... or by vote of the community.

      Trust me Nekron, there are a lot of issues with this wiki that are dying to be resolved... but the issue you speak of would likely be dealt with by the Relational or Editing Team (or equivalent) of the mod[erator] squad. Hopefully we make movements soon.

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    • We could always ask Gabe for more help.

      While its true he isn't as interested these days in helping on the wikia, he still does have active admin status and he does still occasionally stop by to help things out.

      Plus he is the most senior member of the staff since Kuo retired.

      So we could ask if he would help around here more. 

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    • I don't think that would work at all because if I'm not wrong, Kuo once demoted many admins who weren't active enough and out of all admins and mods, if I remember correctly, only Gabe said that he is fine with being demoted. He got his position back afterwards.

      So, I don't think he would be interested at all.

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    • The wiki had two Bureaucrats at one point and had admins that did specific functions, just like in your outline with the Technical team, Editing team and Relation team. But after some time that dissolved then the whole Ironidri hacking Caydeb's account happened then my deleting excessively made pages happened.

      Actually, Nekron2, Kuo was lied to by Death about certain admins being inactive (seeing as I was just as active as Kuo at the time but still got demoted because of her lies). Personally, I wouldn't mind being on the technical team if everyone would have me, being that *is* what I did back when I was an admin for the most part you can ask Kuo, DYBAD, Ouni and Alissa about my work in the various mediawiki pages and the templates.

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    • I agree your coding skills make you a first-rate candidate for the Technical team, you always had this big edge over most everyone else here, and already confirmed it through various such additions.

      A place on the relational team would likely suit me best if the possibility arises. That's originally the only reason I agreed to become admin when Caydeb proposed it, and after various important lessons over the years, I'm confident I could do well if the Bureaucrat above me also takes his role seriously.

      It's fine if others do it though, as long as this crucial yet so-far neglected side is properly taken care of.

        Loading editor
    • For the Relational Team Demotivator, DYBAD and any other current Admin would do. Editorial falls into this same boat as it would be easy.

        Loading editor
    • Strong emotional balance and sense of ethics, with good communication and conflict management skills : these seem the required qualities for lasting success on the Relational team. It's going to be delicate work over an extended period of time, so the people involved should be suitably prepared.

        Loading editor
    • Well, yeah, I have seen that you're quite active Imouto, coming to think of, now I really feel strange that you were demoted due to inactivity.

      Also, I have a little suggestion, that the new moderators be chosen via a vote by the current admins/mods. I suggest this so as to prevent any future clashes between the staff as that has been plaguing the wikia since a long time as they will be the ones to choose the mods and this will also give some new members a chance to prove their skills.

      Also, I want this vote to be admin/mod only so that no one is able to create sock accounts to give himself/herself the advantage. If we go about this route, I think it will be best for all the interested members to give their names and then a separate poll shall be created for voting.

        Loading editor
    • It wasn't due to inacivity, it was the relational conflict that had gone so far both ended up surrendering their adminship just to get some breathing room (thanks for the premium team management, Kuo). I was notably caught up in the demotion wave for... no particular reason actually, and never got it back later because our Bureaucrat decided it was simpler for him this way.

      Yep, epic management right there ^ ^;

      Good thinking. A popular vote on this matter would go awry in no time as all sides would pull every trick in the book to get themselves and/or their buddies "elected", including and especially the use of fake accounts to artificially boost their votes.

      On the other hand, the emotional rifts between existing staff members born from years of unadressed relational issues would likely complicate the voting process, since the risk of facts-unrelated "screw you" votes is pretty high in these conditions ^ ^;

      So maybe the first step should be to clear the air and set things straight, so we may then move forward with a positive mindset.

        Loading editor
    • Here's the problem though, all the admins/mods are currently either blocked or are newly appointed and the situation between various admins have escalated to the point that I don't see that how these relational issues can be resolved in less than a year. I have been keeping up with this entire drama since the beginning and honestly I was feeling as if I am watching a high-school drama anime.

      So, I would now suggest that rather than all admins, Alissa and Omuni should select the new admins/mods from the list of interested candidates.

      I say this because the state in which kuo left the wikia is pretty pathetic. I mean FOUR admins are blocked and there are issues in the wikia that are dying to get resolved and as far as I see, we need few new rules for both admins as well as members. One of the admin is blocked for 3 months

      So, the staff issue needs to be resolved as quickly as possible and the only way I see it happening is by appointing new staff starting by the selection of new Bureaucrats. As far as I think, Alissa should be promoted to Bureaucrat right away.

      Also, a small advice will be to unblock the previous admins and restore their status because these relational issues need to end and giving the admins repeated blocks isn't helping and is honestly pretty bad for the wikia's reputation. If a bureaucrat interferes in their relational issues (which if it was done early on, could have prevented this situation), then these issues can be solved.

      So, once again I think the first step should be promoting Alissa to bureaucrat and then she and Omuni should select new staff from the given list of interested members and finally, if possible unblocking and restoration of the status of the former admins could be done.

        Loading editor
    • Sounds reasonable overall, though the suitability of new candidates should be triple-checked beforehand to make sure they don't just turn into more liabilities barely a few months in ^ ^;

      Alissa ended up neck-deep in the drama though due to personal connections and emotional investment, ultimately leading to the self-bestowed block that is currently ongoing.

      That honestly doesn't quite fit some key personal qualities that our future Bureaucrat definitely needs (strong emotional stability and fairness of judgement among them). And as you rightly mentioned, there is no way this much accumulated issues (both within and without) would just magically sort themselves out in a few weeks.

      So the only valid candidates for Bureaucrat are Omuni and Arquetion at the moment.

      I think we should also set crystal-clear (and mandatory) behavioral standards for staff members in the future, so the aberrant attitudes we have witness recently no longer happen, at least not without major consequences. I'm notably talking about the stalker-level insane harrassment this one former admin had been perpetrating for weeks on my talk page, and eventually got a 3-months block for it.

      Not quite sure adminship restoration would be the reasonable decision in this case.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I saw her messages on your talk page and honestly, I don't know how to respond to that........

      "I think we should also set crystal-clear (and mandatory) behavioral standards for staff members in the future, so the aberrant attitudes we have witness recently no longer happen, at least not without major consequences. I'm notably talking about the stalker-level insane harrassment this one admin had been perpetrating for weeks on my talk page, and eventually got a 3-months block for it."

      That is what I meant by new rules for admins. As for new bureaucrat, Arquetion fits all the criterias but he himself refused the position, so that leaves us with Omuni. I think she'll do a good job even though she isn't that active nowadays. But regardless, I believe she is best suited for this position as the things currently stand.

        Loading editor
    • So the first plan of action is to instate two new bureaucrats then yes ? Cos I agree with Nekron there, the new guard should ultimately decide who the mod squad should consist of.

      My view on suitable bureaucrats

      Unfortunately, due to how often I'm long-absent on this wiki (because I'm busy elsewhere), I can't completely comment on certain users' behaviour (namely Omuni, Alissa and to an extent Arquetion), so I'll have to trust you all's judgement on them.

      Though from my experiences of interacting with him (past and present), and no offence to you bruh, I personally don't think Arquetion is experienced enough yet for a role as large as the bureaucrat role. Massive respect to him for declining the role for essentially the same reason as I've given.

      But yeah, any person who fits the 'perfect bureaucrat criteria' that I mentions elsewhere would naturally get my vote ^^

      Cos there's a fuckton of wiki issues that will need to be addressed once this all gets sorted, so it'd be good to get things moving Allears.png
      We've discussed it somewhat on Discord, but I think we should really start looking at filling the roles of the mod squad. Obviously the Technical and Relational Teams have more specialised roles, so ideally they should get looked at first, but I do suggest the Editing Team have at least 2 people who are often active on the wiki.

      Should we discuss all that on another thread perhaps ?

        Loading editor
    • While I wouldn't suggest this person for admin position, I do believe that the user Smijes08 would be a good fit for Content Moderator.

        Loading editor
    • We probably should discuss it after we decide if we really want to get rid of SageM or not, because I am now 50/50 on the situation.

        Loading editor
    • I personally don't believe Alissa should be the new Bureaucrat at all

      Omuni turned it down because she didn't want to see Kuo go

      DYBAD would be ideal I guess

      and most of the other candidates turn down the position.

      We keep going in circles because we cannot come to a consensus as to who should be SageM's replacement or if we should even replace him at all.

        Loading editor
    • We ultimately need 2 Bureaucrats for our huge Wiki to optimally function in the future. So whether or not Sage stays at in his current position, a second Bureaucrat still needs to be appointed.

      Omuni didn't want to replace Kuo, but Kuo is gone for good, and someone has to fill the second seat.

      Arquetion doesn't want to replace Sage, but becoming the second Bureaucrat is independent from it.

      As with most things, we don't really have perfect candidates, but they are definitely the best we have.

      I think Omuni and Arquetion should simply discuss it in private, until they come to an agreement.

        Loading editor
    • Has there been any decision yet on who will be the second bureaucrat?

      Or is it still being decided?

        Loading editor
    • We decided to have you removed and have Omuni made into the new Bureaucrat

        Loading editor
    • Well, personally (just my opinion), I think despite the majority hating him and the point of this entire poll is to remove him but since we're having two beaurarcrats, how about letting SageM stay a bureaucrat because he is doing a pretty decent job so far and I'll say if he had this attitude aince the beginning, those 39 people would have voted for him.

      If you fear that he will create controversies like before, I think the other bureacrat can conduct this poll again and have him removed from power but honestly, I don't think that he will turn back to that route.

      This is just an opinion of mine but in the end this is a fan wikia, so, it is upto the majority to decide. So, even if he is demoted, I think he should at least remain an admin.

        Loading editor
    • "I'll say if he had this attitude aince the beginning, those 39 people would have voted for him."

      You nailed it ^ ^ We should judge him now for the way he acts now, rather than the way he used to. Like you, I really doubt he would go back to the old ways, as making this promotion of a lifetime work is probably a whole lot more important to him than just being right about X or Y. And on the off-chance we turn out to be wrong, demotion is just a formality with these numbers.

      And yeah, if the majority remains determined he steps down as a Bureaucrat, he should at least have a fair shot as an admin.

        Loading editor
    • I am getting contradictory statements about what is happening here.

      We can't have arguments like this if were talking about the future of the wikia.

      I would prefer to hear from Omuni as to whether or not I should bestow bureaucratic rights.

      Since apparently Alissa, Imouto and DH have been arguing about this so I cannot make this kind of decision lightly as it will determine the future of this wikia and what path it will go down.

        Loading editor
    • I think that we should have ALissa and Omuni as the bureaucrat

        Loading editor
    • I can promote Omuni, but I am not totally certain on Alissa yet.

      I have to be certain about this so there won't be any future arguments with the staff.

      Its a one shot deal. So if things go south I will have to ask the community to step in.

      I hope that's ok with the rest of you.

      I have to make absolutely certain things will be in the best hands, and if there is continual infighting then I can't in good conscious make that decision.

      I hope you guys understand. Omuni seems to agree with this statement. 

      If things turn out bad, then Omuni will be the only one allowed as the bureaucrat.

        Loading editor
    • I will wait until I hear back from Omuni now that this is over.

      We will make the decision to see whether or not to promote anyone else besides her.

      Its not that I am trying to hold on to the bureaucrat status, I simply trust Omuni far more at the moment due to her neutrality in all this.

      Which is what the bureaucrat has to be after all. And due to the arguments and the blocks between each of you I am finding it hard to choose as to whether or not Alissa deserves bureaucrat status.

      Flooding my talk page with contradictory statements makes the choice difficult...

        Loading editor
    • Note: This message is still tentative and only serves to summarize the resolution of what has transpired in the Discord, several talk pages, and this wikia. In no shape or form is this THE official decision, despite it reflecting so.

      Immediate decisions surrounding the bureaucracy of the Superpower Wikia have been made in the staff chat of the official Discord to do the following:


      Among the Immediate Decisions are appeals to the community and popular demand as a result of it. The following decisions have been decided on by not only staff, but Wiki Frequenters as well.



      Following Decisions, after changes in bureaucrat statuses, are to be determined at a later date once the decision is complete. Tentatively, the administration now hopes to achieve -


      · The assembly of a Mod Squad, as suggested by Demotivator and Imouto-tan
      · The revision of wikia guidelines, rules, conduct - "wikiquette"
      · The revision of the process of page creation
      · The consolidation of powers (categories, duplicates) & general site refactoring

      Seeing as we are in the final stages of the decision, with common opinions held by the majority of the staff team (including Kuopiofi's original bureaucrat candidates), there will be little room to greatly impact the outcome of this decision. We thank you for your time in resolving this issue. Special thanks to Wiki Manager TimeShade for their assistance and extreme patience throughout the process.

        Loading editor
    • Arquetion wrote: bydad I told you that the post of bureaucrat is not my thing

      We must give Sagem the benefit of the doubt.

      No we do not! Giving him that kind of power is a big mistake that we shouldn’t even attempt! He wins no popularity contest and we shouldn’t give him a half of a chance to make things worst than he already has!

        Loading editor
    • Zatalliya wrote:
      Note: This message is still tentative and only serves to summarize the resolution of what has transpired in the Discord, several talk pages, and this wikia. In no shape or form is this THE official decision, despite it reflecting so.Immediate decisions surrounding the bureaucracy of the Superpower Wikia have been made in the staff chat of the official Discord to do the following:



      Among the Immediate Decisions are appeals to the community and popular demand as a result of it. The following decisions have been decided on by not only staff, but Wiki Frequenters as well.
       



      Following Decisions, after changes in bureaucrat statuses, are to be determined at a later date once the decision is complete. Tentatively, the administration now hopes to achieve -


      · The assembly of a Mod Squad, as suggested by Demotivator and Imouto-tan
      · The revision of wikia guidelines, rules, conduct - "wikiquette"
      · The revision of the process of page creation
      · The consolidation of powers (categories, duplicates) & general site refactoring

      Seeing as we are in the final stages of the decision, with common opinions held by the majority of the staff team (including Kuopiofi's original bureaucrat candidates), there will be little room to greatly impact the outcome of this decision. We thank you for your time in resolving this issue. Special thanks to Wiki Manager TimeShade for their assistance and extreme patience throughout the process.


      Omuni I wholeheartedly agree for all the best reasons, but what makes you believe Alissa is suited for the position, considering the undeniably Bureaucrat-unfriendly events that took place very recently and the ticking-bomb unfinished business we both know all too well ?

      Considering how important the decision is, shouldn't we prioritize facts and reason over feelings and cronyism ?

        Loading editor
    • Looks like we're back to square one. This whole thing was started to gain new members of the staff as well as being the first step to solve the war between old staff but as far as I see, just trying to take the first step has caused a massive war, again.......

      Kuo should really have cleared things out before leaving. From the looks of it, the process of getting a new staff will be incredibly painful.

      Also, one advice will be that please try do all the discussions that are important to the wikia on some wikia thread not on the discord because half of the time, the staff keeps infighting on some other place causing a lot of confusions to majority of members and the wikia at large suffers because no one can really figure out what exactly transpired. 

      This is one of the reasons that even if Kuo wanted to solve problems, he couldn't because none of the important discussions took place on the actual wikia. 

        Loading editor
    • Agreed. These important discussions should take place on some dedicated Wikia threads, where all parties have a transparent obligation to make sense, rather than incoherent deals being negociated in some secluded backrooms.

        Loading editor
    • The discussion was already held and lengthy rumination over the details are what lead to the results. The secondary vote was held among the staff members, with me and Omuni leaving out our votes for the sake of fairness. The final decision will be made later today after Omuni discusses things with SageM.

        Loading editor
    • I am not just talking about this discussion but every other major discussion in the last six months which took place on Discord. The whole feud between the staff took place on discord and majority of the members cannot tell what exactly happened. The result was that the wikia suffered a lot.

      So, hopefully, this will be one of the new wikia guidelines for admins, so as to prevent such things in future.

        Loading editor
    • Alissa the Wise Wolf wrote:
      The discussion was already held and lengthy rumination over the details are what lead to the results. The secondary vote was held among the staff members, with me and Omuni leaving out our votes for the sake of fairness. The final decision will be made later today after Omuni discusses things with SageM.

      Held behind closed doors, more exactly.

      Hopefully some clear answers can be given now.

        Loading editor
    • Nekron2 wrote:
      I am not just talking about this discussion but every other major discussion in the last six months which took place on Discord. The whole feud between the staff took place on discord and majority of the members cannot tell what exactly happened. The result was that the wikia suffered a lot.

      So, hopefully, this will be one of the new wikia guidelines for admins, so as to prevent such things in future.

      A lot of the infighting was unfortunately very personal so me and no one else is at liberty to discuss the specifics or at all, really. Also, there were no real major discussions, literally that entire time we were just trying to stop the infighting. The recent Bcrat situation came up because we were trying to get Kuo to do his damn job as the guy in charge and he basically told us to fuck off and promoted SageM then left. Based on talk pages he did this out of spite knowing there'd be heavy backlash.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I get your point but the thing is this Kuo actually promoted SageM because many staff members suggested that SageM should be an admin. I will not give any names because I don't want the infighting to continue. I too saw his message on talk pages and he did say that he was thinking if he should promote SageM out of spite but another admin replied that it doesn't have to be out of spite and that SageM will actually do a good job (and so far, he is doing a good job).

      Also, I pointed this out because I remember that everytime DH or Imouto complained to Kuo, he had the same reply that exact same reply that "since I am not on discord, I cannot judge things that happen there" and I think that he kinda had a point but then again he could have done many other things to help the situation.

        Loading editor
    • He was never interested in helping, all that mattered to him was not to be personally troubled.

      So the biggest requirement from there is a Bureaucrat who cares about actually solving issues.

        Loading editor
    • Actually I was the only one who even mentioned SageM being an admin to Kuo (as a joke).

        Loading editor
    • I will promote Omuni since she finally replied, though I will wait until you guys settle this new argument first before promoting anyone else.

      If that's ok with you. I want to make certain there are no further disagreements before promoting Alissa.

      After all, we want to start this new path for the wikia on a positive note. ^_^

      Hope that works for everyone.

        Loading editor
    • @Imouto, Actually no, there was another admin, too.

      @SageM, Yeah, that's probably for the best.

        Loading editor
    • Kuo threatened me with the idea of making Sage our Bureaucrat.

      I basically told him I'd take Sage over him any day. And I meant it.

      I'm not admin by the way, and Kuo is responsible for his decisions.

        Loading editor
    • Emergency Alternate Account wrote: Kuo threatened me with the idea of making Sage our Bureaucrat.

      I basically told him I'd take Sage over him any day. And I meant it.

      I'm not admin by the way, and Kuo is responsible for his decisions.

      Yeah, that... wasn’t a good idea... they were both in conspiracy together.

        Loading editor
    • So, despite writing essays about doing the discussions about the new mod team on some wikia thread, seems like it is still happening on the discord. At this point, I really don't know what to say.....

        Loading editor
    • They refused to discuss it on a thread because they knew their feels-driven cronyist decision would never withstand proper scrutinity. So instead they sneaked it in through the backdoor.

      Unfortunately that's how politics works, and the Wikia is certainly no exception.

        Loading editor
    • I'm not sure what you mean by "Feels-driven Conyist plan". Regardless once the staff figure things out we'll be presenting our idea to the public for further scrutiny.

        Loading editor
    • I think you know rather perfectly what I mean, since you and I discussed it quite abundantly.

      Anyway, that's how it is now, and will remain in the forseeable future. So it's time to drop it.

      Good luck with the upcoming changes, it seems there is quite a lot to look forward to now.

      First real overhaul ever since the Wiki's creation. Big challenges, and big merits if it works.

        Loading editor
    • Since SageM is no longer our Bureaucrat and Alissa is, this poll should be closed since it is now redundant.

        Loading editor
    • Or maybe it should stay as a reminder? 🤷🏽‍♂️

        Loading editor
    • What I meant was that the poll should end but the thread stay open.

        Loading editor
    • That’s good too. It stands as a good reminder of how bad you know who is and the low down last move Kou made before he jetted the wiki.

        Loading editor
    • Might as well close the thread so no-one else can post about it.

      But yes, it needs to be kept as a reminder of how low the wiki once sunk.

        Loading editor
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